Ed,

the Stereo darTZeel NHB-108 is no slouch. what you heard in my room was the stereo dart prior to the upgrade of the circuit boards. the newest version of the stereo dart would be the perfect match with your speakers if the big bad monoblocks are too big and too bad (in $$$'s).

the color scheme of the stereo is the same as the monos. :)

i'm really looking forward to hearing the monos in room. the shipping them out will be hard though.

the Dobbins Garrard sounds even better than it looks, your A90 would love it.

mikelavigne January 17, 2010 20:00

Again great systen! You went to Reed "L" from a SME 312s surprizes me. Can you explain your experience in more detail. What arm and cartridge do you have on the Dobbins Garrard?

gerrym5 January 17, 2010 17:27

01-16-10: Mikelavigne writes:

i have the new dart monoblocks on the way here to my home for a short trial; they'll be here Tuesday

Lucky man.

I actually hope for the sake of your pocketbook that they don't improve the sound significantly. The weakness in the dollar makes all overseas purchases poor value at the moment.

Still, I'm looking forward to your report.

Regards,

metralla January 17, 2010 16:14

Hello Steve! Thanks so much for the info! Beautiful workmanship on your plinths and tables!

Ed

theaudioassociation January 17, 2010 04:20

Hi Ed,

Thanks for the kind word. Mike asked me to answer your question about the 301 plinth price.
A one arm plinth in the standard color of piano gloss black is $3850 plus the cost of the 301 itself. The optional color shown is a custom color from a Porsche. As you can see, I also painted the 301 top plate to match the plinth. The new copper top platter is $1100.

Steve

vetterone January 17, 2010 04:09

Hi Mike,

I have a feeling that the dart monoblocks will have a favorable effect in your room/system...I know that I'm going out on a limb, here :-)

-Sam

c1ferrari January 16, 2010 21:02

Mike... you're killing me! Haven't been able to get the monoblocks out of my mind since Vegas. You are so right in regards to the workmanship. They are one great piece of gear.

I might be one step ahead of you on the "sell to the wife" thing..... Teresa really liked the color scheme versus my black Sig's..... Of course she has no idea how much the cost! That might be a bit of a problem but at least she likes the way they look! Bet they'll sound ridiculous with your setup!

That Dobbins 301 was gorgeous. Wonder what that baby is going for????

Have a great long weekend!

Ed

theaudioassociation January 16, 2010 18:01

i have the new dart monoblocks on the way here to my home for a short trial; they'll be here Tuesday.
darTZeel NHB-458 1000 watt monoblock(s)

sorry about my poor camera work, i'll take better pics when it's in-room. needless to say the picture does not do justice to the amazing workmanship of the amp.

also; at CES i saw Steve Dobbins' sexy new Garrard 301 platter which drops the noise floor by a considerable margin. it was mounted on a beautiful 301 that Steve built. it has a beautifully machined copper top.
Steve Dobbins' copper-top Garrard 301 platter

the Dobbins' platter will likely be an addition to my 301 soon; the monoblocks will be a bit more of a challenge to sell to the wife.

mikelavigne January 16, 2010 17:27

Idos,

e-mail me and i will connect you with my friend (who is now working in Siberia) who built these and he can expalin his approach to you.

my only caution is to build them out of something light weight or they will be very heavy to mount and have their own effect on the mass of your wall.

mikelavigne January 16, 2010 16:37

Mike, Looking at your room pictures and reading back in your blog, I see you have "RPG" type skylines that a friend made for you. I have been thinking (always dangerous) that I might like to try building something like this for my room. Do you know the math used to bulid these or the dimensions? I'm getting to old and lazy to re-invent these myself.

idos January 16, 2010 16:01

i was only at CES (the Venetian) for about 4 hours on Saturday afternoon, and then only early Saturday am and early Sunday am at T.H.E. Show at the Flamingo. So my perceptions are not in any way complete. my understanding is that by Saturday most rooms had attained a bit of synergy (if they had the potential to).

a friend did ask me to hear the Magico Q5. i spent maybe 20 minutes there; they were playing a 'Tape Project' tape; Exotic Dances, on their big Sony RTR tape deck. i know this tape very well but not the Sony player. i was sitting in the sweet spot and it was quiet in the room. something was not working for me, and really i cannot say whether it was the RTR deck or the room set-up or the speakers....but it was kinda rough on top and not involving, no mid-range magic or musical nuance. to be fair, i learned nothing useful about the Q5. if i had more time i might have been able to hear something that worked or have a better insight into the speaker. Alon was sitting over the corner. i've spoken with him in the past and consider him a good guy and would still assume the Q5 to be a very good speaker.

i liked the MAXX3/Lamm ML3 room. what's not to like? really world class imaging and very involving. terrific tonality. i think Bose speakers would sound world class thru those amps.

big Tidal's with BAlabbo electronics, Blue Smoke server. Fred is a great guy and the room had a swagger and refinement that was like a refuge. i could have stayed there all night. totally non-hifi and musical. smooth and luscious.

i really enjoyed Bruce Brown's room with the Usher speakers and Belles amps. Bruce's hi-rez files played thru the Playback Designs MPS-5 humbled sources in most other rooms even though the amps and speakers were modestly priced. as good as it was; Bruce's studio sounds world's better.

the big Hansens and the Tenor.....butt ugly speaker sounded good, but not good enough to overcome the combination of the 'look' and price. maybe Guido would like them if the price was right. and i'm a Tenor lover from way back.

i did go into the Continuum/ARC/Wilson room to listen to the Caliburn tt for awhile. frankly i was really trying to listen to the tt thru the system. but i can say that the system sounded pretty damn good and was up to revealing the tt. nuff said.

Sunday morning i did walk over to the Mirage and visit the Rockport/Gryphon/Blue Smoke room. my ulterior motive was to see Andy Payor and ask him about the mythical proposed Sirius V tt. alas; no bolts of lighting or concrete info on the tt, but i did enjoy 45 minutes speaking to Andy, always a pleasure. and, i heard his new speaker which did sound wonderful.

my overall favorite system was at T.H.E. Show and was made up of components that are essentially what is in my home system. Evolution speakers/datTZeel amp & pre/Playback Designs digital/Dobbins Technics SP-10 Mk3 tt w/Reed arm and A90 cartridge. the room was very small and many times people would poke their head into the room and see there was no room and move on. i'm not sure how many people heard the room. i have to admit that parts of the sound were better than what i hear in my room. the mid-range and sense of air was as good as i've ever heard from any system ever. i admit to being a total fan-boy of the gear so factor that into my comments. i did hear a number of people i respect say the same things about this room that i just wrote. it was very special. here's a comment from Stereophile about this room.

my decision to attend CES was very last minute and so i was onlt there from 9am Saturday thru noon Sunday, but i'm glad i went.

mikelavigne January 16, 2010 04:22

Idos,

thanks for the details. i'll bet the gas company scratched their head a bit with how it happened. a few years ago i heard (felt) the Eminent Technology Rotary Subwoofer at an Audio Show and had an apprciation for how very low fequencies could move a large building. i would not have believed it if i had not experienced it. it was scary and you want it to stop right the hell now.

in my room there are large barn doors on the outside of the left side wall which i've left since it still appears to be a barn. they are screwed tightly to the wall behind. when i do low frequencies they can rattle a bit (the Evolutions measure flat at 10hz in room).

mikelavigne January 14, 2010 14:28

Jake,

thanks, and i hope you are having a happy new year too.

Steve Dobbins went thru my SP-10 Mk3 power supply and did whatever needed to be done. i'm not sure he did what Albert's tech did in terms of replacing caps, he did not replace the stock power cord with an IEC. we have talked about the IEC issue and maybe he'll do it when he visits next.

i know that Steve did replace some of the caps in my SP-10 Mk2 power supply, but i sold that one a year ago.

if i get a more specific answer on what Steve did on the Mk3 power supply i'll let you know.

i did read about your PC-1 Supreme verses the Ortofon A90 comment. could you expand on that a bit? that's a comparison i have been quite curious about.

mikelavigne January 14, 2010 13:58

The Gas Main story was really one of resonance as opposed to pressure. I was testing a new design (golly time flies, about 35 years ago!) with the thought of marketing it with a disclaimer that "the manufacturer would not be responsoble for structural damage to the users home" well, while doing response and impedance testing down below 20hz we found the resonant frequency of the house and amazed at all the vibration and noise of pipes banging in the floors and walls............when the Fireman banged on the door to evacuate the neighborhood due to Gas spewing out of a hole in the middle of the street, I was glad the test had shut down and followed orders to get out of town..........

idos January 14, 2010 13:49

Mike,

May i ask what you did to your outboard psu for the technics tt you have?
Did you replace all caps, diodes,rectifiers etc. as that can be quite expensive ,and that's not including chips and an iec!

Would love to know which direction you went...

Thanks for your time and Happy New Years to you and the family!

Jake

azjake January 14, 2010 09:10

I'm the guy of legend that once broke a Gas main in the street while testing a Sub-Woofer system!

there must be a good story behind that statement. i'm reminded of the 'Incredible Hulk' movie where sound pressure waves are used in an attempt to defeat the Hulk.....of course, it merely pisses him off more.....and he picks up 2 car doors and uses them as a boundaries which direct the pressure waves back at the evil army guys.

just a normal day for the Hulk.

btw; the 4' x 8' panels of the Quietrock 545THX weigh 214.4 pounds, not 175 as i wrote. (6.7 pounds per sq'). my contractor will need some help to hang that stuff....i wonder what the Hulk will be doing next week?

mikelavigne January 14, 2010 02:36

Sounds like a good plan! What your designer is saying is that you have a huge bass trap on one side and none on the other side. Low frequencies (long wavelength) will pass through anything unless you either disapate the energy or create a mass so great that it reflects it. This of course is the problem with all rooms and I'm shure your designer has made all the appropriate calculations, he most likely didn't dream that you would be generating such large volumes of low bass. I'm the guy of legend that once broke a Gas main in the street while testing a Sub-Woofer system!

idos January 13, 2010 14:15

additional note;

the existing structure is a 6" studwall on 12" centers with a sandwitch of 5/8" sheetrock 1/2" soundboard 5/8" sheetrock over the whole room including the ceiling except for the windows and doors.

this 3 layer cocoon is what is behind the traps and it's what the Quietrock will be glued and screwed to.

mikelavigne January 13, 2010 03:13

i've been investigating some room issues and have come up with a firm planned 'next step' to solve them. i'm very excited because this approach should fix the problems at the source and allow for the bass balance i want.

i will explain.

over the last year i've mentioned a few times about the fact my room is over-damped....and that i plan on reducing the amount of bass trapping. there is a secondary issue; which is that i'm getting a fairly significant suck-out in the 30hz to 40hz region, with the right side a much deeper hole. my room is perfectly symetrical (within 1/8th inch) side to side from the drywall cocoon out. but....and this is a big BUT, on the left side i've got a load bearing wall both side and front along with decorative river rock up about 4 feet on the outside walls of the barn. on the right side i have a hallway and outside wall inset where there had been a garage door, so neither right side wall is load bearing or has much mass.

in speaking to Chris Huston, my room designer, he is convinced that the right side is acting like a diaphram and sucking out the bass and causing much of the lack of bass decay.

Chris is recommending to remove the cloth panels and fibreglass lining from the side/front bass traps and install a layer of Quietrock 545 THX inside the whole front bass trap area on both sides. the idea is to have identical room boundaries for the bass on both sides.

the bass traps occupy a 16 foot by 10 foot surface around the front windows extending back to the middle side diffusers.

these Quietrock panels weigh approx 175 pounds each 4' x 8' sheet and should establish a solid room boundary equal on both sides. the plan would be to do this step, listen and measure. then we can determine how much dampening is needed to get it right.

this is a simple thing to do since there won't be any painting or finishwork required. if one layer of the Quietrock does not fully solve the imbalance after listening we can add another layer.

the Quietrock 545THX is not cheap, list price is approx $175 per sheet. but in the context of my room and system the project will be considerably less than a good phono cartridge.

i spoke to my contractor yesterday. he's ordering the Quietrock and could start this as soon as next week.

i'm really excited about this.

mikelavigne January 13, 2010 01:50

Sam, hard to comment on that other than it's a nice thing to say and thanks.

mikelavigne January 13, 2010 01:17

Dear Steve and Mike,

Thank you for the elucidation. Steve, I hope to make your acquaintance in the future. You have an AWESOME resource in your father :-)

Best,
Sam

c1ferrari January 08, 2010 21:26

correction; my memory of David Beetles' comments on the arm affective mass ideal for the Verito 'Z' was wrong, here are his comments;

I find Verito having a very low compliance (6.5) that it works best with arms with effective mass in the 15+ gram range.

i know he recommends some arms that fall into that range but as i have not tried any i suggest you contact him if you are curious at [email protected]

mikelavigne January 08, 2010 14:30

note; i want to thank Allnic, David Beetles, and Steve Dobbins for their free exchange program for Allnic Verito 'Z' owners. in their quest to satisfy the buyers of the Verito Z cartridge, they are offereing a free upgrade to the latest version of the Verito. i sent mine in on Monday and recieved my 'brand new' replacement today!!

pretty damn slick deal if you ask me.

i won't have time to mount it until i return from CES next week; but i am looking forward to hearing it. it will likely be going on the Reed to begin with; however David told me that it works best on an arm that weighs at least 19 grams; so the Reed might be a little light for it.

mikelavigne January 08, 2010 06:06

Dgad, sorry to hear that the Colibri's are not working for you. for 7 years they were the best pieces of audio gear i had ever heard. hard to say what the issues are with them.

the Titan i sounds like a cartridge i would like. i'm told the Olympos is somewhat like a 'sweeter', 'more delicate', and 'slightly bloomier' Titan i. also that the Titan i is a champ at doing space.

you need to aquire an Ortofon A90. it's quite special, with an organic correctness, yet no detail robbing coloration. very lively yet always surefooted. balanced and extended. i'd really like your take on it.

mikelavigne January 08, 2010 05:56

Sam,

yes, i'm pretty stoked about how things are sounding with the Rockport, really all the turntables.

yes, i'm getting closer to doing my long awaited bass trap adjustments in my room. a couple of days ago i spoke to my room designer, Chris Huston, about it. he suggested that before i actually start changing anything that i bring in -4- 3/4" 4' x 8' sheets of plywood and lean them against my bass trap walls for alittle 'cowboy' trap neutralizing. this will allow for a sense of how eliminating the traps might effect the sound prior to any work and should allow for more bass hookup in the front corners. it's an easy first step.....stay tuned.

to echo Steve's comments above; what you heard at Puget Sound Studios was mostly hi-rez PCM (176/24 and 192/24) with a little analog to DSD thrown in. my server (MSD-1) has quite a bit of the hirez PCM stuff; which is waay better than ordinary 44.1/16 redbook. it can sound very very good.

the server based DSD stuff is in a state of flux for now and really a pro audio tool mostly. the DSD format only has value if you have native DSD files or analog tapes as sources. if it's already an SACD then just play that. ripping it to a hard drive has no sonic advantage.

mikelavigne January 08, 2010 05:46