hi Doc,

thanks. pretty nice system yourself.

yes; i have been seriously thinking about a second arm for both the 301 and the SP-10 Mk3.

specifically for the 301, the more i listen to the Triplaner, which right now has the Ortofon A90 on it playing thru my darTZeel phono stage, the more i really like it and maybe it will be the second arm on the 301.

the 'first' arm might likely be the Reed, or maybe the first and second arm will be the Reed. you know how it is; you are listening to something (301-Triplaner-A90) and it sounds so wonderful it's hard to imagine changing.

there are other very interesting arms out there to consider; i like the Ortofon arms, there is the new unipivot, the TALEA, to consider. then there is the SME 312s.

my intention for the second 301 arm is a mono cartridge; which i know very little about. i do have around 75-100 Classical and Jazz monos from the Golden age which would be fun to hear optimally.

i guess one needs a stylus type which optimizes older mono pressings, then the question might be do you want a cartridge which has lots of resolution or one that is more forgiving for these old pressings. right now i'd love a mono version of the A90, but that may not be what is best looking at it from all angles. then there is which phono stage input i'll be using. i can use my second darTZeel phono stage or maybe even one of the two MM inputs on the Allnic H3000.

when i'm ready to do it (translation=afford it) i will likely trust Steve Dobbins to guide my purchase.

mikelavigne November 29, 2009 18:26

Hi Mike. Have you thought about what second arm/cartridge you were planning on placing in the second arm position on your 301? I was thinking a mono cartridge on mine Great system, BTW.

doc_stereo November 29, 2009 15:48

Hi Mike!

Our Thanksgiving was great and hopefully yours was as well! The MM2's are not spiked yet. Trying to get a bunch of hours on them prior to making final placement adjustments. They've been running in 24 hours a day for the past 4 days. Got a long ways to go before I can get to the 1,000 hour mark.

Been really enjoying the tunes! You're right about the non-fatigueing sound! Just incredible!

I'll keep you posted!

Eddie

theaudioassociation November 28, 2009 05:16

hi Eddie,

i hope you had a great Thanksgiving and have been enjoying the MM2's. the ribbon tweeter and ceramic mid-range do have a very open non-fatigueing sound. are they spiked yet? that makes a big difference in bass tightness.

it's great when you just want to listen to everything again because it's sounding soooo good.

enjoy!

mikelavigne November 28, 2009 00:51

Hey Mike!

All went as planned and I've got a pair of MM2's producing some great music! Probably only have 8 hours on them so far but I have to say..... what a difference versus my Maxx 3's. I could never get the Maxx's to produce satisfactory bass in my room. No matter where we moved them they just couldn't muster up any oommph. These MM2's are unreal in the bass region. I've got the settings at flat and they just stomp all over the Maxx's. The entire presentation is so different. I've been listening to alot of my favorite discs and records and enjoying experiencing them all over again.

I've got to do some tweaking with the speaker setup. Did some toe adjustments earlier today along with making sure they were at the same distance into the room, etc..... I'm not the best at this stuff so I'm sure these MM2's could sound even better with some expert tweaking.

The A90 is pretty amazing. I think I've got maybe 15 hours on it so far. Again, it's such a different presentation versus my Benz LP. I'm in total agreement with you .... 'truth sayer' it is! Just had Ray Brown - Soular Energy playing and I could really feel the weight of the bass, never got that from the Maxx's.

Going back to the tunes.... I'll keep you posted on the developments.

Happy listening!

theaudioassociation November 23, 2009 04:07

I see. BTW, styrofoam also has some absorption and the skyline pattern also has some but the overall effect is minor compared to the benefit. But yes, styrofoam would be ideal for this diffusor and better than an absorbing foam and wood.

I tolerate some absorbption in my system because I have a tweeter which is fuller if not hot. But I would definitely want to try the styrofoam based skyline. Would you please let me get in touch with your friend who made it so that I can get some information from him about the material required. Thanks.

gallant_diva November 23, 2009 01:16

Diva,

when i said foam, i meant styrofoam. it is very stiff and almost brittle (similar to the moulded material in the RPG Skyline product). i cannot imagine that it has any absorbtive affect at all. we specifically selected the material to not be absorbtive, it has sharp corners just like the standard Skyline.

the only absorbtive affect might be how it is attached and how the panel is secured.

OTOH i think small solid pieces of wood would actually dampen to some degree as it is so dense. you would need to get something light and stiff in wood to get the same affect.

mikelavigne November 23, 2009 00:43

Sorry, I meant to say my aborption panel is now 6' by 2' (not 6' by 4').

gallant_diva November 23, 2009 00:27

Thanks for the detailed reply..........it answers my question very well. What you were saying all made sense until when you mentioned that the double panel made it worse. But then it all made sense again towards the end of your response when you mentioned that it is made of foam.

I am not expert on the subject but I have experiment a lot recently with both diffusors and absorbers., with the sole objective of improving imaging. If you look at the picture of my system, I have a red panel placed at the same place. Recently I have extended it 6' by 4' just like yours. Even though my speakers (dipole planar) are different from yours, we are experiencing the same effect.

First of all yours looks positively nice, as you mentioned. Mine is spoiling the carved painting it is covering but then the sound takes precedence over looks.

However, Mike, since your panel is also made of foam it is the absorbing effect that is affecting more than the diffusion effect. And the effect on imaging is that it is canceling the cross-talk between the two speakers, which in turn means more separation between the left and right speaker, which in turn means more focused central image.

So it works fine for you and also for me. The only problem is that the foam also sucks up some life out of music, even though the overall gain on imaging may be worth it. I want to replace my foam with wooden skyline panels. But you are right it would be awfully heavy and that is the concern. I will still try one though.

Another possibility is to find some other non-foam material which would not cause any absorption but would have the skyline diffusion to achieve the same effect.

I wonder if I could make a panel by using Styrofoam. I have styrofoam metro diffusors to cover my side walls. They stop side reflections but they do not achieve the same effect on the central spot. If I can find a good 2" by 2" Styrofoam rods, then a good skyline diffusor can be built.

gallant_diva November 23, 2009 00:21

Diva,

sorry i did not address your original question on the skylines.

those were actually made by a friend of mine for me about 18 months ago; they are copies of RPG skylines painted and mounted on a prefinished 3/4" sheet of ply.

over a period of time i had recieved a few comments from visitors that my center image could be better. i had dismissed the comments to begin with but......

anyway a friend had made his own Skylines and one visit he brought over a 2' x 4' panel. we leaned it against my big round diffuser and we listened, then removed it. no question center imaging was quite a bit more precise and alive. he left it with me to play with. later he brought over another panel so we had a 4' x 4' panel of skylines. the double wide panel was quite a bit worse, it tore apart the image, worse even than no Skyline.

so my friend bought the finish grade plywood that matched my cabinetry and covered it from top to bottom with Skylines (3 and 1/2, 2' x 2' Skylines 'stacked'). we installed it. hummmmmm.?

something was not correct. i proceeded to cover up the the Skylines with a plastic garbage bag in 6" increments and listen. i did this many times over two weeks. i found that for my particular room and setup that 3 (2' x 2') skylines stacked worked ideally. also that half a Skyline causes problems. they are engineered to work in 2' x 2' sections as far as an even frequency response.

the Skyline panels improve center focus. i'm no expert on why, but i think they 'clean up' reflections. my room is designed to retain as much reflective musical energy as possible. but my big curved center diffuser did not eliminate beaming quite enough to optimize a center image.

after 18 months i'm really happy and feedback from visitors has been very positive.

these Skylines are made from painted foam glued to a panel. i originally wanted it made from wood. but it would have been very, very heavy......which would have made the logistics of mounting it much more daunting. the thought of some 300 pound panel falling on my speakers or amps gave me pause. plus the cost of having it made.

i actually like the look of my panel.....like abstract art. it fits the look of the room....and provides a point of interest while listening. it changes it's look as the light changes and with the color we choose it kinda glows in the low light i like when i'm listening.

mikelavigne November 22, 2009 16:32

Jake,

thanks for the kind words. i do recall our previous interactions back during that time. it was an exciting time of major changes for me. you were making big system decisions then yourself i think too.

the kids mostly roll their eyes when i describe a new aquisition; but they will humor me and walk out to the barn and listen when they visit. they are happy for me that i have a passion and that i enjoy all my audio friends. the wife is as you say 'marvelous' to put up with it and support it all.

everyone in this hobby has to fit it into their life and hopefully have it enrich their life at the same time. we mostly get into high end audio at a point where our lives have attained a degree of simplicity and stability.....and it fills a spot that does not push something else valuable out.

mikelavigne November 22, 2009 16:01

Thank you Mike. I do not have nay plans to visit Seattle yet but if I do I will certainly be glad to come by. Your passion for the hibby is commendable as you host so many visitors. That requires time and energy.

By the way you are also weclome to visit me.

yes, Winston's new disks are amazing. By the way, I would appreciate your comment on the skyline diffusor that you have on th wall behind the speakers. I am thinking of making a DIY kind.

gallant_diva November 22, 2009 04:21

Wise idea!

I just remembered that you had children [you told me when we spoke on the phone along about the time you moved into your latest digs and i suggested the name "music barn" for your dedicated palace...:)]
I hope your kids have enjoyed the constant parade of jewels that have come through your space and that they have a fine appreciation of music and the fact that they're dad is truly inspired with his "hobby" while inspiring others ,always with a helpful hand.
As always, kudos to that marvelous wife of yours for her support along the "never ending road"
be well,

Jake

azjake November 19, 2009 23:33

hi Jake,

actually it's early up here! :)

great to hear from you, i hope all is well in sunny AZ.

i've got a married 34 year old daughter (no kids yet), and a single 32 year old son. they are my pride and joy and a credit to my wife's great parenting.

honestly i have not thought about that stuff. i would likely request one of my audio fiends to consult on the selling off of my gear and my kids (or wife) would split the proceeds. unless one of my offspring developed a passion approaching mine i would not see any reason to retain all the stuff.

over the last month or so i've been dealing with a family of the ex wife of one my 20 year+ employees who's father died leaving a collection of 2500 Classical Lps. over the years i had met the gentleman a few times. he was retired military and for years pretty much just played these records.

i have looked the collection over somewhat; there are very few, if any, valuable pressings, it's pretty much late 60's and 70's classical.....the kinda Lps you see at thrift stores. they are in very good condition and i feel a bit of connection to them.

the family is torn about what to do with them. none of them are into vinyl, let alone classical fans. they started off with a bit of an inflated viewpoint of the value. i bid a particular number, they have had a couple of record stores come and bid (both bid below my number and wanted to cherry pick). i had also offered to pay 10% over any bid they get. they feel this connection to the collection because of the father's love for them, but what do you do with 18 large boxes of Lps which you are un likely to ever play.

at this point they have decided to keep them.....or more to the point they cannot agree on what to do. in a month or so they must move them from some temporary heated storage; i figure that faced with the daunting task of moving them 'again' they will realize that the Lps are not a workable keepsake of the father. also that selling them to me will at least put them someplace where they will be loved and someone who appreciated their father's passion will have them.

i will have some sort of plan to sell off my stuff.

mikelavigne November 19, 2009 14:46

Mike,

Have enjoyed and been educated by your threads for years but it's late and the thought just hit me...DO YOU HAVE KIDS AND,IF SO, HOW'S ALL YOUR STUFF GONNA BE DIVIDED??? [home theater, 2 channel+ room, den system etc.]

Yeah, it's late but the things i think of...:)
Hope all is well in the great northwest!

Regards,

Jake

azjake November 19, 2009 08:55

You got it Mike! Full report to follow!

theaudioassociation November 19, 2009 04:54

Hey Eddie, now you sound like me.....'all work and no play...."

Saturday is the big day then; we'll need a full report particularly the 'sh*t-eating' grin on your face as you fire those bad boys up for the first time.

i'm truely happy for you and Teresa.

enjoy!!!

mikelavigne November 19, 2009 04:28

Hiya Mike!

Well.... haven't really fired up the system in a while. Work is killing me. But...... if all goes as planned, might have a reason to have an all day listening day on Sunday. MM2's might land on Saturday! Got my fingers crossed!

theaudioassociation November 19, 2009 04:04

hi Diva,

good to hear from you, it has been awhile.

those HK guys Andrew and Jack left me a few 'Far East' recordings and they are all wonderfully recorded. i've purchased some others and my friend Winston Ma has given me a few.

the musical message is not always compatable with my sensibilities; but the sound is consistently transparent and clean. Far Eastern music can be hauntingly beautiful and peaceful. but i do need to be in the right mood for that stuff. great demo material.

there is another amazing demo track.......'White Snow In Early Spring' track #1 from the CD of the same name (Hugo HRP 7188-2) which is a real system workout for extreme detail and transient delicacy using Chinese instruments. not exactly 'Thelonius or Miles' but some fun stuff.

if you are coming back to Seattle any time soon i'd love to have you visit again and get your feedback on my system evolution.

best regards,

mikelavigne November 19, 2009 03:28

Henry,

attaining synergy in my system has been a struggle for me.....and to be honest, i, personally, have been the thing that has had to evolve as a listener to be able to bring things together. i've learned a good deal from friends who have been honest with me about certain aspects of my system. getting into the vintage tt's and RTR tape has also pushed me into hearing things differently.

anyway; thank you for the synergy comments on my system, that has been something i have been working on lately.

when i get home tonight i'll see if i can find any new music for you. Jamey Johnson's "That Lonesome Song' has been in heavy rotation lately.

mikelavigne November 19, 2009 01:36

Jim,

i've not yet changed my bass traps. but it might be done soon. with my darTZeel amp upgrade the need to do it is reduced....but i still think i want to reduce the dampning.

i do have waterfall plots of the before; and after we do it (and readjust the speakers to the new environment) we'll do another set of waterfall plots to see whether i get the decay in the bass that was missing. i suspect that the plots would be somewhat different now with the changes in the amp.

mikelavigne November 19, 2009 01:20

Eddie,

any further impressions of your A90 after a few more days?

mikelavigne November 18, 2009 21:52

Mike:

Long time no talk.

The Hong Kong made CD that you mentioned is excellent. I myself have it and several others similar works of art. Somehow, I find Far East Audiophile recordings to be much better.

With regard to the skyline diffusor, I am doing it a DIY panel. Did it have a good effect on your imaging?

gallant_diva November 18, 2009 18:39

Mike, thats great feedback thanks. In the contect that you mention we are talking evolution of all the great traits the system already has. I love this approach, as the fundamentals of the system are already so right. I'll probably get them both at the same time when I've saved up myself.

I was reading - online - the latest Stereophile and had to smile at the list of annual components. Great stuff in there but all individual. And its all about synergy of components. And sound tastes. Oh what fun it is, this hobby.

Any new interesting recordings lately you can recommend ( no tapes please..LOL)

mtkhl567 November 18, 2009 17:56

Mike,

Did you change your front bass traps with the stretched poly pool liner over the insulation to adjust the amount of damping and decay? If so, was the response favorable to the ear as well as the meter. (if measured)

Thanks,

Jim

joneill November 18, 2009 14:38