Addition: the speaker auditioned was the Grand Exquiusite!

mtkhl567 July 19, 2009 07:05

Hey Mike, occasionally I like to go out and test my ears on another high-end system. You know, just to re-affirm my sonic taste and component choice. And yesterday I had just such an experience. I listened to two high-end systems at a dealer with decently treated/sized rooms for about 4-5 hours. When I came away and played the same songs at home I once again smiled and was so pleased with my MM3/DartZeel/Playback.

The systems I auditioned were Wilson Alexandria/Boulder and Kharma Exquisiste/Burmester. Both their very best. All cabling by Transparent Opus MM(!).

Keep em spinning

mtkhl567 July 19, 2009 05:10

Idos,

you cannot use any mat on the Rockport.

i use the Boston Audio carbon mat on the Garrard; it is lightly glued down with wood glue. the sound changed for the better when i glued it.

i use the original stock rubber mat on the Mk3.

Steve and i have spoken a few times about mats. we know there is still work to be done. also i did briefly try Steve's platter design on the Garrard; but there was an issue (which i suspect was my doing) so i will revisit that issue later. we will likely do some sort of copper mat on the Mk3. i have the copper disc but i've only used it on the Garrard so far.

my opinion is that i need to have another Reed arm for the Garrard before i get to comparing mats. the arm, i think, is likely a much bigger issue. i've tried both the Reed and the Triplaner on the Mk3 but only the Triplaner on the Garrard.

mikelavigne May 18, 2009 02:07

Mike, Speaking of FM, I wonder how long it will be before the government stops FM multiplex broadcsting in order to make more "saleable" airwaves available?

With all your tt testing (I might have missed it) are you using the same record mat on each table? I do know they can have a drastic effect on the vinyl performance.

idos May 17, 2009 13:39

Idos,

thanks.

and then there is FM radio which can sound fantastic.......unfortunately i cannot partake of that since i have a 4000 foot ridge behind my home which is between me and the Seattle broadcast towers....the price of living in the mountains.

mikelavigne May 16, 2009 15:48

Mike,
I must add I think your turntables are beautiful and I compliment your builder.
Isn't it interesting that with the resurgence of vinyl records we have gone back in time, past the AR and Linn eras to the high mass, high torque, fasten the table to the center of the earth strategy of commercial (radio station) turntables? Hmmm reel to reel tape, who would thunk it..............

idos May 16, 2009 14:19

Idos,

thanks for the explanation. i think this subject is beyond me; your caution is duely noted regarding vintage tts.

mikelavigne May 16, 2009 00:35

Mike,
The problem was not with the "power supply" but the drive, logic and control circuitry in the table itself. These are mounted on 3 seperate boards. Now days it would be done on 3 seperate IC's. There are something like 16 logic IC's and 40 or 50 discrete transistors. The availability of any antique semiconductors is questionable with the industries change to disposable electronics.
Barring unforseen physical damage modern capacitors should be good for decades and as I mentioned I have been using a mkII since about 1982 with no problems. Just be careful of the provenance of any used turntable

idos May 15, 2009 13:46

Idos,

i don't personally know much about the power supplies of the Technics, as Steve Dobbins has done that work. i have read lots of info over this past year or so about all the vintage tts. as i recall; there are specific Technics models which use IC's which, if they fail, are not an off-the-shelf item like the capacitors which the Mk2 and Mk3 use. to replace these IC's would require a 'donor' unit.

from what i recall these IC's are only in Technics SP-10 Mk2A....not in the Mk2 or Mk3. the Mk2'A' was introduced in 1983 after the Mk3 and had a simplified power supply/controller. this 'IC' issue is the reason that the Mk2A is less desirable than the regular Mk2.

i just tried to do a search to confirm my memory; but could not find anything definative in my brief search.

Idos, if you or anyone can confirm this issue one way or another i would appreciate it. i don't want to pass dis-information but i also want to clarify that the regular Mk2 or Mk3 does not have unobtainable pieces in the power supply which would make them un-repairable. both my Mk2 and Mk3 power supplies had the caps replaced by Steve Dobbins as a standard part of his work on them, and from what i understand once that's done you are good to go for a few decades.

mikelavigne May 15, 2009 13:26

I have been following the turntable threads for a while and thought this a good time to add to the reliability question. I was building massive plinths (we called them basses then) for technics SP-10, SP-10mkII tables and did come across a couple of mkII's with electronic problems. One of them took me several days to diagnose and repair. That was in the 80's and I ended up owning the table (the customer found another for his custom base) and it has been in regular use until recently. The mkII has very early, "crude" digital circuitry, so do not buy one with problems! But note that once sorted mine has been going 20 years.

idos May 14, 2009 16:57

Fred,

thanks.

i think that a Dobbins/Mk3 should be about a $10k-$12k plus arm proposition....depending on cost of the Mk3 and how snazie one specs the plinth. if one buys a Mk3 around $3500 then it's much less.

a Dobbins/Mk2 is likely around $5k plus arm again depending.

both offer world class performance for the money.

you can push the Dobbins/Mk3 to around $20k if one pays big for a Mk3, gets a very top plinth and includes 2 expensive arms.

i have limited but positive experience with the Grand Prix Monaco......not enough to form a true perspective.

mikelavigne May 14, 2009 00:24

Jfrech,

i'm sure Alberts Mk3/Allnic is quite wonderful.

a month ago we did install the Olympos on the Triplaner/Garrard 301. it was a very nice match as i recall. this last weekend we did not try the Olympos on the Triplaner/Mk3. we used (2) Allnic Verity Z cartridges for the Triplaner--Reed comparison.

we did, however, put the Olympos on the Reed/Mk3; and that was very very nice...and i think a level or two beyond the Olympos/Triplaner/Garrard.

this is not to say that the Garrard does not have it's own character and strengths; having three tt's does mean it will take me lots of time and music to figure it all out. currently i have the Colibri XCP HO 1mv. on the Triplaner/Garrard...and it's using the darTZeel phono.

i think the Olympos is a very good cartridge for the Triplaner.

mikelavigne May 14, 2009 00:00

Mike, I just got back from Albert's house last night. I was very familiar with his Aesthetix and Walker/Technics Mk II from about a year ago.

The Allnic plus Technics MK III is quite a system. Wow is about the right word. I just posted a few commments (umm compliments :) (maybe it was druel :) on Albert's system post. I certainly can understand your appreciation for the SP 10 MK III. It's quite a table.

Have you tried your Lyra Olympos on a Tri Planar? I read your comments above. I am running a Lyra Skala in my Tri Planar (with Grand Prix Monaco TT). I am very curious if the Olympos should be my next step...any more comments you can share on the Olympos I'd appreciate.

Thanks in advance.

jfrech May 13, 2009 22:39

Malcolm,

interesting choice for your first post on Audiogon. welcome btw.

you are not the first to make that observation. they do resemble giant phones with the help of the proper adult beverage.

cheers,

mikelavigne May 13, 2009 22:28

When you get a call in that room, which of those giant telephones do you pick up?

malcolmmonfort May 13, 2009 21:11

Mike,
it may be buried in here some place, but what are those plinths made of.

mikeduke May 13, 2009 13:58

I have watched this thread over an extended period and have found your insights often rewarding. Given that I have some familiarity with Albert's explorations of the Mk 2 and Mk 3, I am not really surprised by your results. One thing for others to keep in mind is that we ultimately are talking about a $20k turntable by the time that all the modifications are done with a motor/control assembly that are at least 20 years old and which cannot be serviced by the manufacturer. Don't misunderstand my comment as I am in similar straits with my Rockport. It does on ocasion require some upkeep and feeding.

Congratulations on a job well done.

On a separate point, have you had any experience with the Grand Prix TT?

fcrowder May 13, 2009 12:26

10,000 Lps. Wow. You make me feel like such a novice :). I have about 130. But I am slowly building a list of some that I would like to get. I also took a look at the prices you posted. I thought for some reason that a MKII would have been more than that. Again, congrats because they look fantastic. So is the TT trip over now? Or is there something else that is hiding in the background :).

mikeduke May 13, 2009 12:05

hi Dan,

total cost on the Mk3 project?

used Mk3 from Denmark including freight....$6k

you'd have to contact Steve Dobbins on the various plinth options and costs. and also on the tweak work on a Mk3 or Mk2 or Garrard 301.

i'm not sure Steve would do an exact copy of my plinth again in terms of the outward look.....as the man-made slate is very difficult to finish....although he can certainly do one with the same performance. i think that mine, considering all the hand finishing, would be around $6k. but one like mine with dual arm boards and painted instead of natural is likely quite a bit less. again; contact Steve for the details.

the plinth for the Mk2 was around $3000.

Steve's email address is; [email protected]

the Reed arm lists for below $4k.

the big question would be SP-10 Mk2 or Mk3. Mk2's can be purchased for $600--$1500. Mk3's run $5k--$10k....and the Mk3's are hard to find.

my Dobbins Mk3 does cost some bucks; but it plays with the big boys and outdoes most of them in some ways; and others in all ways.....at least that's what my ears tell me.

regarding speaker/listening position set-up;

my tweeters are 114" apart and my ears are 130" from the tweeters. so i'm slightly in the 'far-field'. the room is large and speakers are very tall and massive at the top.....and my photography is a bit suspect. so it's likely a bit difficult to determine relationships easily from the pictures. the speaker designer put the speakers in the best position for bass performance; then we adjusted the seating position and toe-in for optimal soundstaging and coherence.

at the moment the room and system seem to be particularly synergistic. honestly; i think the magic has much to do with recent optimization of my sources. upgraded software on the Playback Designs, new phono stage for the vinyl, and break-in of the RTR.

and great music.

great software trumps even bad systems and bad rooms. great software makes good mature systems and good mature rooms sound like magic.

the best 15ips tapes on an ordinary RTR deck in an ordinary system and room will still sound amazing. it's the music that counts most.

mikelavigne May 13, 2009 04:35

Mike,

the tt's are very very good. wonderful in fact. a joy.

but.....RTR tape at it's best is better. but i have 10,000 Lps and 20 15ips tapes.....and maybe someday i'll have 75 or 100. so Lps will always be where the music is.

i have not yet done any Mk3--RTR direct comparisons. when i do that i'll share.

mikelavigne May 13, 2009 04:00

Martin,

thank you very much for the kind words. i feel very lucky to be able to enjoy my room every day. also to share it with visitors frequently.

mikelavigne May 13, 2009 03:55

Chris,

thanks for the kind words about the tt. Steve did a great job.

the combo of the Dobbins plinth, SP-10 Mk3, and Leeds arm is absolutely killer. the music simply leaps from the grooves.

mikelavigne May 13, 2009 03:53

Mike,

Thanks for the reply. The new pics look S-W-E-E-T!

Good luck with your local electric inspection system as they shot my iso transformer down on the initial submission as well as my appeal. Seems balanced power from the wall is a no-no for a residence by local code but OK for commercial proprty. Go figure.

I agree, trial & error is part of the hobby that has to be embraced to achieve the best sound. One just have to tweek to get the best sound. Plug and play has never been an option and I enjoy that journey as you obviously do as well.

The RPG skylines are part of the "optional" treatment for my center front wall that Rives has recommended on my Blue print. I have budgeted for them and will experiment with them as well. When I get closer to completion, I'll send you an Email on building a mounting plate that will allow the flexibility you have suggested.

Thanks for your reply and your continued support. Demo starts on the room on 05/27. Hoping for 8 week completion date. We shall see :-)

Regards,

Jim

joneill May 12, 2009 18:12

BTW,
Those RTR's look great as well. Any comparisons between those machines and the MKIII? I know it is still in the early stages for you but it might be interesting.

mikeduke May 12, 2009 17:31

Hi Mike,

This is Dan from SH Forum. Glad you finally received your new table. I love that Technics SP-10 MK3 table. Just gorgeous. Would it be too much to ask what the total cost on the whole restoration?

Also, from the looks of your first picture it seems that you are sitting no more than 10 feet from the speakers. Is there an advantage for the near-field setting for such large speakers?

Best,

tiguwagu May 12, 2009 17:21