Mike,
First no need to apologize. I know that you are a busy guy.
Those new pictures look great. That was a great update about getting the MKIII back. I am glad that it is what you were hoping for. It looks great and it sounds like it is a real winner. Are any of your tables setup for dual arms? I am about three months away from getting into analog :). I think my choice will make me a happy camper just like yours does.

mikeduke May 12, 2009 16:53

***below is copied from a post i made on audioasylum last Saturday. i know not everyone reading this thread checks out the Vinyl asylum over there. so here goes. i'll add the pictures later.***

Last weekend the Steve Dobbins plinth'd SP-10 Mk3 finally arrived, in all it's retro glory. Friday night i drove the 1000 mile round trip to Boise from Seattle to pick up the Mk3 with the new plinth, another Triplaner, a new 12" arm, the 'Reed L', 2 brand new Allnic Verity Z cartridges, a Lyra Olympos, and.....Steve and his friend Keri.
a great 6 hour drive filled with talk about analog, more analog, and cars.....boys and their toys.

Steve and i had talked frequently about which arm to use on the Mk3. we had considered another Triplaner, the SME 312s, the Schroeder Ref SQ, and some others. We had somewhat settled on another Triplaner in addition to the one i already had on the Garrard.

we arrived at my home around noon Saturday. my friends Jonathan and Dale (from Portland) met us at the house at noon and stayed into mid-day Sunday.

Steve set up the 130 pound SP-10 Mk3 on the GPA Monaco stand between the Rockport and Garrard. Steve installed both the Triplaner and Reed L arms on the Mk3; both with the identical new Verity Z cartridges. my now 35+ hour Verity Z cartridge was still installed on the Garrard/Triplaner.

First we compared the 2 arms; and to my surprise the Reed sorta kicked the Triplaners butt. more detailed, more energetic, and more vivid, more impactful bass.....we had them both plugged into the Allnic H3000 phono stage so were able to quickly A/B. i had very much liked the Allnic Verity Z/Triplaner combo on the Garrard and so was surprised at how much better the Reed sounded.

i'm no expert on arm design; the Reed L is a 12" long gimbaled bearing design with a wood arm wand. the fit, finish and assembly quality appear to be first rate. it's retail will be under $4k.....i think a great value. i will be keeping the Reed.

first impressions of the Mk3 were wonderful. this is a great tt. very very low noise, lots of detail, amazing energy, PRAT to die for. music literally jumps from the grooves. musical lines are well delinated. big soundstage. i was likeing everything i was hearing.

i love the look of Steve's plinth design in person. it has a presence and form which looks right. to install the SP-10 Mk3 motor and platter into the plinth Steve removes the 70's casework and speed controls; and only the motor and platter are inside the plinth. speed control is then done from the power supply. Steve feels that the performance of the Mk3 is optimized by this design as it eliminates the limitations of the 70's sheet metal casework in terms of controlling the huge amount of torque of the Mk3 motor. in any case; what i hear from this tt only validates Steve's approach.

in addition to the work on the plinth; Steve also does a few things to the power supply; including new caps.

after the arm comparison, we mounted one of the new Verity Z's on the Rockport so we could compare the Rockport to the Mk3. we spent the rest of Saturday night into the wee hours doing this comparison. and now, a week later, i am still forming conclusions. there were various impressions around the room as to how the tt's compared. i will only speak for myself.

provisionally; the Steve Dobbins plinthed, Reed armed, Mk3 is in the ballpark of the Rockport Sirius III in performance......when using these identical Verity Z cartridges. the Mk3 slightly betters the Rockport in terms of energy and bass impact. it has a slightly higher sense of vividness. the Rockport has more texture and detail. the Rockport is more refined and nuanced. in terms of nosie floor; you hear deeply into the music with the Mk3.....but more so with the Rockport.

what the Rockport does well is unique to the Rockport.....and it comminicates the music on a unique level.

other tt's do some of what the Mk3 does. but it is also on a special level for the ability to pull you in. i'm not completely ready to yet make any definative comparative statement; only that i continue to investigate these 2 great tt's.....and that i am completely happy with Steve's work.

sometimes when we descibe wonderful gear we forget it's about the music. i want to make the point that all through this wonderful exhausting weekend it was the great music we played which was the main event. we were all having trouble focusing on objective gear issues with so much great music. i wish i would have written down all the great cuts we played.

later i will descibe more of the weekend....we mounted the Lyra Olympos on both tt's on Sunday (the Olympos is still here a week later). Monday am i dropped Steve and Keri at the airport. it took me 3 or 4 days to recover from the drive and 2 days of intense listening. as intense an audiophile time as i've ever spent.

mikelavigne May 12, 2009 14:07

Nawrocka,

so far there has only been one change to the room since it was built; the center RPG Skylines diffuser discussed in the post above.

there is one other change i'm currently contemplating; i'm considering changing the fabric panel directly to the sides of my speakers to a solid wall. only the first 6 feet or so from the center side diffuser panels. this would possibly expend the soundstage somewhat by adding refective energy to the sides.

my contractor is prepared to do it pretty soon but i'm having second thoughts since everthing is sounding very very good right now. visitors to my room 10 days ago felt that i should just leave it alone as it was sounding great to them.

mikelavigne May 12, 2009 14:02

Jim,

i still want to do the Isoclean wall panel and a low noise transformer.....but i've not yet committed the funds to do it....tt's, RTR decks, and software has been a higher priority. but i still intend to go there.

as you can see in the pictures i just added to my page; the triple stack RPG Skylines are still there. i think they help with center imaging and depth. when i installed them i experimented with wider, taller and shorter over a few month period....and what i have sounded best.

the way they are installed i can easily expperiment with other products or nothing at all. and i do expect to try other things as time goes by. but i am happy with the sound. i get very lifelike and holographic center vocals and instruments. things vary from recording to recording as they should. everything is not 10 feet tall, or over my head, of down on the ground. i get what the recording is doing.

it was interesting when i was doing the experiments the effect of too wide or too tall.....it distorted the soundstage or made it ghosty and diffuse. for every room and speaker system setup there is a 'sweet spot' for reflective surfaces.....ya gotta try stuff and listen.

mikelavigne May 12, 2009 13:54

Mikeduke,

sorry for the delay in response.

the different inputs are to allow for different output levels on cartridge choices. Moving magnets have typically 2mv or more output so only need 20-30 db of gain. the moving coils are typically between .2mv to 1mv and the better ones at the lower level. they need typically 50db+ up to 70db.....and with such a small output they must be very low noise. i would guess the MC inputs adds a step-up amp in the circut.

i've not messed with moving magnet cartridges for many years but from what i know go with a moving coil for best sound.

mikelavigne May 12, 2009 13:40

Thanks for the updated pictures Mike. It looks great. Interesting to see the Allnic phono stage in your room. I just ordered one myself for my Walker/Magic Diamond TT.

slipknot1 May 12, 2009 13:38

Those turntables look wicked. I kind of miss the "behind the head" shot, though, it was your logo, like the Memorex guy with the flapping tie.

i have the 'flapping tie' picture framed on my rec room wall upstairs in the barn.

those pictures were taken last Saturday morning in daylight.....i will retake the 'dark' shot at night 'soon'. i do like that shot as it represents my ideal listening environment.

unfortunately; as i get older, many times when i turn down the lights i wake up a couple of hours later.....

mikelavigne May 12, 2009 12:16

Those turntables look wicked. I kind of miss the "behind the head" shot, though, it was your logo, like the Memorex guy with the flapping tie.

cjfrbw May 12, 2009 06:20

System edited: system pictures updated to reflect current tt's, digital and RTR. i will update individual component descriptions and pics as soon as i find the time.

mikelavigne May 12, 2009 03:39

That is one absolutely beautiful listening room. The stuff of which dreams are made.

Martin

mhconley May 06, 2009 17:51

Mike, the new table looks amazing. Congrats to you and Steve. Looking forward to reading your thoughts about how the combinations end up. BR, Chris

bigamp May 06, 2009 03:11

I read the making of your room and I wanted to know if there are any changes you would make now that you have been using it for some time?

nawrocka_distribution May 03, 2009 19:51

Hi Mike,

Did you ever do the 7.5 KZ isolation transformer on your room's electrical panel?

Did the RPG stack on the front resonator stay in your system? Van you elaborate on their contribution in the longer term?

Thanks,

Jim

joneill May 02, 2009 21:46

Sounds like a plan to me. I have never heard of that preamp. But then again, I am sure there is a lot of highend gear I am not aware of :). I was wondering if you were going to try and use the phono stage in the dart for one table. The Dart intigrtaed that I am eyeing looks like it has two phono inputs. One for a MM and the other for a MC. I know that one means moving magnet and the other means moving coil but beyond that I really don't know the difference. I will be anxiously awaiting your updates.

mikeduke April 25, 2009 16:13

Mike,

thanks, i'm glad you liked the pictures. yes, 2 arm boards...and the Garrard also has 2 arm boards. i do plan on adding a mono cartridge as my budget recovers.....not sure which one or how soon.

I am excited in my own right. In a few months I will be getting the Well Tempered Amadeus with a Dynavector XX2mkII cart. I am looking forward to spinning some records again.

you should be excited about that. it's a fine tt and cartridge and will make great music.

regarding cartridges; i have a Colibri on the Rockport and am auditioning the Allnic Verity Z on the Garrard. i own 2 other Colibri's, which are fairly new and barely broken in.

i loved Steve Dobbins' Lyra Olympus cartridge a week or so ago on the Rockport. and the Air Tight Supreme and Koetsu Coralstone are one's i'm thinking about. the Olympus is the best cartridge i've yet heard.

it all comes down to budget. first thing is the Allnic H3000 phono stage, then the cartridge considerations. feeding 3 tt's and 3 expensive RTR decks is maybe not realisitic long term in the persent economy.

too much good stuff. i need to sell a few things and we'll see.

mikelavigne April 25, 2009 14:33

One more quick thing. Do you plan on sticking with the three carts you have now or will you be getting a new one(s).

mikeduke April 24, 2009 17:37

That table looks fantastic Mike. I am sure you are excited. Can't wait to hear thoughts on it. I read that it will have a place for two arm boards right. I see you say arm selection pending. Will one be mono and one stereo?
I am excited in my own right. In a few months I will be getting the Well Tempered Amadeus with a Dynavector XX2mkII cart. I am looking forward to spinning some records again. Maybe not a Rockport or SP10mkII but it should be nice. Everything I have read about it has been very positive.
Again, can't wait to read your thoughts on it.

mikeduke April 24, 2009 14:13

here's a picture from last fall with the Rockport, the SP-10 Mk2 (which has been sold to help pay for the Mk3 'work'), and the Garrard.

the tt family

i am very excited to be close to finally being able to listen to all three of these turntables.

mikelavigne April 24, 2009 13:38

here's the first pictures i've seen of my new Steve Dobbins plinth'd Technics SP-10 Mk3.

picture 1

picture 2

picture 3

here's a picture of my Garrard for contrast...

Garrard 301 with Steve Dobbins plinth and Triplaner

The pics are not ideal, taken in bright sunshine outside (thanks to Steve for lugging it outside to take the pics)....but none-the-less i love the look and can't wait to enjoy music on it in my room.

Steve Dobbins has designed and built the plinth.....as he did my Mk2 before and my Garrard 301. I'm not exactly sure how soon i will have it in my system...maybe a few weeks....i will be driving to Steve's place in Boise to pick it up.

The Mk3 case has been removed, so you only see the platter, the plinth material is layered man-made slate with duraluminum, 2 arm boards. This will be a very heavy tt....i think 100 pounds plus for the plinth. Due to the extra torque of the Mk3 motor, removing the stock case and mounting it into a dense heavy plinth is said to yield performance gains over leaving the case.

Control will be done from the power supply.

Needs Stillpoint footers to be installed.

Arm selection pending.

It should look great next to the Garrard and Rockport.

mikelavigne April 24, 2009 13:25

I wish I could have been there. Unfortunately a birthday prevented it :(

jtinn April 19, 2009 03:03

thanks Bruce, for the explanation (and for bringing those amazing tapes).

it was not my place to share those details.

mikelavigne April 16, 2009 20:19

The "Jazz At The Pawnshop" and "Patricia Barber" were my tapes that I had brought from my studio. These tapes were sourced from the original tapes that were sent from the label for re-mastering. They were 2nd generation tapes that were duped from an ATR-102 with Aria electronics. I make dupes of every tape that I receive from the labels..... about a few hundred so far.

crna39 April 16, 2009 04:44

Microstrip,

the 'Tape Project' tapes were mine. some of the others were mine and others were brought by other antendees. as to the source for those other tapes.....'here and there'.

i honestly don't fully know the source of these 'other' tapes. other than the 'Basie' party tape; i own multiple copies (in the case of DSOTM maybe 25) of each performance we played on tape.....so i've certainly purchased the right to hear this music many many times over.

i can say that these 'other' tapes easily trounced the Lps.....as excellent as the Lps sounded.

i do believe that the Studer performance can be improved with a simpler signal path and output electronics.....but it's damn good as it is. Fred Thal, the Studer tech who reconditioned my A-820, is working on a custom output circut which would retain all the wonderful EQ switchability of the stock A820. i sent him 2 audio boards to use as the basis for these new circuts. i have no idea how soom this might happen. the Tube Repro is also a consideration.....although i'm thinking of it more for my Ampex ATR-102 at this point.

please let us know what you think of the Tape Project tapes when you are able to listen.

mikelavigne April 16, 2009 03:50

Mike, how did you get these incredible 15 1/4 tapes that you are referring? Have you considered using a Tube Repro by Bottlehead head amplifier for your A820?
I am just waiting that my Tape project reels are released from the customs.

microstrip April 16, 2009 01:14

further thoughts on the Thursday night meeting.

i'll try to list some of the tapes and Lps we played.

we started off with Pink Floyd's 'Wish You Were Here' on vinyl, 1st domestic pressing--the best one i've heard, then on 15ips 1/4". the tape killed the vinyl....not close.

then the 'Jazz at the Pawnshop' that Mike describes above.

then we played the Mose Allison from The Tape Project.

in no particular order;

-'Kind of Blue', 45rpm Lp and 15ips 1/4".....the Tape was much better.

-we did Patricia Barber, 'Companion', Premonition 33rpm Lp (better than the MoFi 45 which i also have), then 15ips 1/4"......tape much better.

-the XRCD and Lp of 'Albeniz, Suite Espanola', then the 'Tape Project' version.....again the Tape was much better.....and the very very good digital not even in the ballpark of the vinyl.

--the Speaker's Corner Decca Lp 33rpm reissue of Ostrakah on the Bruck 'Scottish Fantasia and then 'The Tape Project' 15ips 1/4". it was on this comparison that many preferred the Lp. my opinion as to why i think that happened was that the tubed Allnic H3000 phono stage brought a sweetness to the sound that my stock Studer A820 could not match. we are talking about 2 tt's which were vinyl at it's best. Oistrakh's violin communicated so much emotion and the tone was wonderful.....the Allnic simply went further with this.

--Ben Webster-Sweets Edison, 45rpm Lp.....15ips 1/4".....the tape smoked the Lp.

--we played the 'Jazz in the Pawnshop' Lp--Tape comparison again for those who did not come early.

--Dark Side of the Moon, UHQR Lp and 15ips 1/4".....not close...we played the whole side one of the tape. magnificent!

--Count Basie and Orchestra, 1961 Party in L.A.--no Lp, never released. 2 reels, live to 2-track....15ips 1/4". breathtaking!

we started at about 5:45pm and ended at 1:30am.

What a night of music!!!

i cannot speak for anyone besides myself. but i would be stunned if anyone came away from this event not fully convinced of the clear superiority of 'tape done right' over vinyl, and that digital is not close to either.

mikelavigne April 14, 2009 03:49