Description

Waiting to upgrade to Exasound S88 when Canada tarif goes away
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Room Details

Dimensions: 35’ × 11’  Large
Ceiling: 8’


Components Toggle details

    • Martin Logan Renaissance ESL 15A
    7.1 Front speakers
    • Martin Logan Illusion ESL C34A
    7.1 Center Channel
    • Martin Logan Ethos
    7.1 Surround Speakers
    • Martin Logan Fresco i
    7.1 Surround Back Speakers
    • Martin Logan Dynamo 1600X
    7.1D XLR LFE subwoofer by listener
    • Martin Logan Dynamo 1100X
    7.1D XLR LFE + Fresco i extension
    • REL Acoustics S/510
    Front speakers Line Array + XLR LFE
    • REL Acoustics S/510
    Center Channel Stereo pair + XLR LFE
    • Krell EV-707
    7.1 PreAmp
    • Krell KAV-3250
    7.1 FL-FR Amp + 7.1 SL-C-SR Amp
    • Krell KAV-2250
    7.1 SBL-SBR Amp
    • Exasound e38
    7.1 DAC via Wireworld Supernova USB to JRivers Music Server
    • Shunyata Research Typhon T2
    7.1 Power Amplifiers Sigma XC to wall + 2 Theta XC to component
    • Shunyata Research Denali X
    7.1 Front End Components Typhon Umbilical + all Theta XC to components
    • Shunyata Research Venom V16
    1 on each side to support all REL S/510 via Venom HC v2
    • Shunyata Research Gemini 4
    Poor man grounding hub
    • Shunyata Research SR-Z1
    2 dedicated 20A outlets

Comments 9

Showing all comments by eletourn.

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Owner
Thank you emergingsoul.
The concept of the REL line array is not about more bass but better bass by spreading the work to different subwoofers. If you're interested, you can hear the explanation of John Hunter CEO of REL:
.

I would totally agree it's pricy and not for everybody, but it works. It's a bit of pain to set up at first but when you get there it's really great.

As for the rug I agree it would look nice, but it would not do much about sound reflection. Here's an explanation from a sound theory book:

"As a line source, the electrostatic panel maintains a consistent sound pressure level over a wide vertical window, with measurements indicating a consistent treble response over a range of ±10° relative to the panel’s midpoint. This controlled vertical directivity helps minimize strong floor and ceiling reflections, which is characteristic of electrostatic line-source transducers."

So, the only thing it would help is the low frequencies from the 12" woofer at the bottom. Unfortunately, a rug cannot stop low frequencies however thick it is. Low frequencies are standing waves between wall boundaries and are not directional. Maybe I should go fetch one from my garage and redo the picture, so people feel better for me. :-) 

I agree about the Center Channel analogy. When I play stereo music to other people, the center image is so strong and precise that everybody is convinced it's coming from the center channel. On the other hand, when you switch to Multichannel music like 5.1 or Atmos then all bets are off because you are at the mercy of the mixing engineers. It's like a competition on who's going to come up with the craziest idea like putting deep bass in the center channel or even worst in the back surround. To cover all bases, if I count the 6 powered subwoofers in the ML speakers I end up with 16 subwoofers. 12 of them are always active and the other 4 only when the music requires it. 

eletourn

Owner
Thank you gaylelee60 for the offer.
Now you know where I got the idea of adding the REL line array. :-)
I've seen the spec of the old ML Statement and can confirm it would not fit in my current room or even house. I could always build a new structure in my back yard but then there would be the issue of my wife divorcing me for irreconcilable difference. I think I will have to pass on your offer.

eletourn

Owner
Thank you jchiappinelli.

The concerns you are listing are dead on and we could also add the window on the right, the doorway on the left, uneven ceiling on the left and many others. But what I learn a long time ago is that they are concerns, not necessarily issues. I should probably take a picture of all the extra diffusors, acoustical foams and panels in my garage. How do I know that's where they belong is by measuring. Before I was using ETF with a calibrated microphone nowadays, I'm using REW. 

Then you try stuff and decide what need to be fixed and what works best. The ML have very narrow horizontal and vertical dispersion so very little reflections from where I'm sitting. Tried the rug and it makes little difference. Covered th TV and window - same. The fact they are close to the back wall is definitely an issue. Tried both diffusors and absorption panels and absorption is the best compromise in my case. Probably losing a bit of sound staging depth but it is still so big I'm not sure how much I care. All the ML nowadays comes with ARC. Did the setup and tried with and without. Sounds better with so far, Now the REL line array doesn't have DSP, but it gives you a lot of adjusting flexibility. Work in progress here. 

Finally, it's also the reason why I bought the STAX headphones you see on the floor. Even though there are basic differences between headphone and speaker, you should still be able to hear the same level of detail and the same tonality. If not, you need to keep working at it. So according to REW and STAX I would rate it more like 90-95% there. After that it's the law of diminishing return. Thank you for bringing this interesting topic.

eletourn

Owner
Thank you tlepperd1.

It's a great question because I had the same concern, I got the ML first so set them up the way ML recommend which is an equilateral triangle with the listening position and slightly toe in. Where they are on the picture is where they sound amazing in stereo. When I decided to get the REL line array I did some research and got this:

"A REL line array (stack of three subwoofers per side) can be placed either outside or inside the main speakers, though outside is preferred for maximum soundstage width and depth. If room width is limited, placing them inside the main speakers is a valid, effective alternative. The primary goal is for the stacks to be placed close to the main speakers, slightly behind the front plane of the main speakers, and toed in towards the listening position."
Now if you take in account that in my case ML have also a very narrow dispersion, 30° in front and 30° in the back there is pretty much no impact on the soundstage.
Each stack is 280 lbs but because the padding is a soft felt under and they are on laminate floor you can move them. Now if you check the video on setting a REL line array there is no reason to move them once they are set up.

eletourn