SET bliss/Jazz Haven (In my home).

by charles1dad on Done For Now

Description

My objective is to duplicate the sound of a good jazz venue as best I can. I'll never match it but getting close is fine. I've had various audio components through the years and tubes particularly DHT tubes/ASSET have gotten me the closest.  So this is where I will settle down and appreciate.
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Components Toggle details

    • BPT Signature 3.5 plus
    Balanced AC power is fantastic !! 1800va balanced isolation transformer/conditioner.  All aspects of music reproduction are improved for every single component.
    • Tripoint Tripoint Troy.
    A wonderful grounding box component. When added to my system it increased the sense of natural sound quality and emotional engagement. The Troy has a humanistic and “soulful “ quality to it.
    • Coincident Speaker Tech Total eclipse 2
    This wonderful speaker is transparent,open and involving. It`s large yet completely disappears as the source of sound within the room. Very easy to drive,94db and 14 0hm impedance (Minimum 10 ohm). I replaced the stock Solens capacitor with the Duelund CAST in the crossover.
    • Coincident Statement linestage
    Superb performance. In my opinion , a masterpiece by Israel Blume. As would be expected, a wonderful match with its sibling the Frankenstein MK II.
    • Coincident Speaker Tech Frankenstein mark 2
    A terrific 300b SET amplifier that is the foundation of my system. The EML XLS 300b tubes are a superb match with this amplifier.  

    Acquiring these 300b SET mono blocks changed the course of my music listening experience. They elevated the emotional engagement, tactility and “breath of life “ realism.
    • Yamamoto YDA-01
    Wonderful music lover's DAC that has a very natural/organic sound quality. Duelund CAST addition(output coupling capacitors) makes it sound even better. It has a very minimalist circuit/design that was implemented well.
    • Ocellia Silver Reference IC
    Very natural and pure sounding with excellent tone and timbre preservation.
    • Ocellia Silver Reference Speaker Cable
    Same qualities/ comments as the IC.
    • Star Sound Technologies Sistrum Apprentice component platforms..
    These Star Sound platforms are mandatory in my system. Effectively managing resonance and vibration leads to a very noticeable sound improvement with every component and especially the speakers. Excellent product.
    • High Fidelity CT1 Ultimate Digital cable
    A highly impressive digital cable that mates beautifully into my system. Contributes to the natural sound presentation.
    • Pro-Ject Audio Systems CD Box RS2T
    This is a superb Redbook CD playback transport. It’s both high resolution and impressively natural.

    . I’m  using the  excellent Fidelizer Nikola II LPS. Splendid pairing.  
    • Lavricables Grand and Master series Power Cables.
    Pure silver wire and unshielded power cables. These are used with all of my audio components. They are very open, transparent, high resolution with beautiful natural tone and timbre presentation.
    • Abbas Esoteric Audio 3.2SE
    Built by renown Ukrainian Abbas Zulfugarov. NOS DAC utilizing the classic Phillips TDA 1541 multi bit chip. Two 6080 tubes in the analog stage. 5 various rectifier tubes in the power supplies.

     3 separate toroidal transformers (And 2 chokes ) for the power supplies.A very serious and successful upper tier DAC implementation. Using with the Abbas SPDIF and power cable.
    • Frankenstein tubes.
    Tube complement 
    EML XLS 300b output.
    RCA 5U4G rectifier (1953)
    RCA 6EM7 driver (1960s).

Comments 1956

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Hey Charles.  Hope you are well.  We moved (neighborhood was not kid safe) and my magic "Energy Room" went bye bye but on a positive note, I did finally snag a pair of Trenner & Friedl RAs along with a Traumatic 300B integrated that is fabulous for an office system I must say:  https://systems.audiogon.com/systems/7635

agear

Charles, I am sure you have this but for others, this is worth owning:

http://http://www.amazon.com/What-There-Say-Gerry-Mulligan/dp/B002HMHQXS/ref=sr_1_5?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1461470745&sr=1-5&keywords=gerry+mulligan+quartet

agear

This is a fun album:  

http://https://www.amazon.com/Any-Number-Can-Jimmy-Smith/dp/B000V6ACHY/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1453233245&sr=8-1&keywords=jimmy+smith+any+number

agear

I saw that. It's a good dac. I like it and am done with dacs....:)

agear

I have not yet. I am looking into 300Bs first and another rectifier. I am currently using Kenrad 6A3s and a run of the mill Sino 274B which Lucas said was almost as good as the Gucci stuff. I am looking into the Mullard fat boys you guys were discussing previously....

agear

Thanks Charles. I think both names have come up before on your thread....

agear

He is a whiz. I was sitting in my office listening to Swiss Jazz Radio via my Sonos, and he came on. Wow. I am ordering the album as well. Reminds me a lot of the late, great Danny Gatton whom I saw live back in 88 while still in college. He was considered one of the greatest guitarists in the world at the time. This is a fun album:

http://www.amazon.com/Redneck-Jazz-Explosion-Vol-I/dp/B003A56V1O/ref=sr_1_3?s=dmusic&ie=UTF8&qid=1442968731&sr=1-3&keywords=danny+gatton#customerReviews

agear

Here is another one:

http://www.amazon.com/Live-Marciac-Bireli-Lagrene/dp/B000024DVU/ref=sr_1_6?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1442959370&sr=1-6&keywords=bireli+lagrene

agear

Lak, I am a fan. Have what a wonderful trio and Autumn in Seattle. Also excellent recordings....

agear

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-JaD95jLfs

Very kool....

Another great live album of more avant garde or acid jazz is:

http://www.amazon.com/Tonic-Medeski-Martin-Wood/dp/B00004SQ2F/ref=sr_1_1?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1441548267&sr=1-1&keywords=medeski+tonic

agear

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-u6hnPzl94Y

I am game. Sounds good...

agear

Gsm18439, what do you mean by dark?

agear

I was going to do the same....looks outstanding...

agear

Jond, I listened briefly on Amazon to sample tracks and it's very very good. I'll have to snag a copy. Thank you

agear

Charles, the music recs are always appreciated.....

agear

Jeff, don't fret. As long as it has more artistic merit than an ER polaroid, you are safe from me....

agear

Thanks Jeff. I just need to chat with Viva about the voltage issues.

The Absolare is a dream amp along with the Chalice stuff. Still looking forward to those pictures....:)

agear

Charles, the single word descriptor under your system intro page describes precisely how I feel inside about the photographs of your system.

Charles, the lead engineer at Viva recommends basic Sino 845s for the Solista. I have not tube rolled yet, but the stumbling block (apparently) is the high voltage. I am supposed to use 845s that can support it (845A or B?). Any recommendations? The US distro for Viva (Bob Clark) and other end users all recommend the basic Sinos and say the sonic differences of Gucci tubes are minimal.

Bill, you need to resurrect your system thread. How did the surgery go?

agear

That is what I thought you meant Jeff. Another element that separates the men from the boys in SET land (or tube amplification in general) is sound staging. The Grail amps that I heard a few months ago did not truncate the sound stage whatsoever. The reviewer from Positive Feedback commented on that attribute of those amps (http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue36/chalice_grail.htm). I am not sure what they did, and what that's a function of (? noise floor, isolation, etc), but it is and was splendid. No darkness, no sense of truncation, but rather purity of tone and musical perfection.

Jeff, do you think you Rockports play a role in any of that perception? I heard a set (Altairs) while back in Minnesota recently in a SOTA room designed by Dale Pitcher (http://analogaudio.mn). TOTL VTL amps were in place and vinyl was spinning, and they were beautifully balanced and musical. If I was in the market for a big boy but mainline speaker, they would be on my list.

agear

Not sure about that Charles. Just that tonal darkness or density or whatever that is works well with some speakers. My ASR Emitter had that same basic tendency (albeit it was an older model).

agear

12-05-14: Jwm
Charles is way too kind about his mini Lamm review. This amp was one of the worst amps I ever had in my system. My push pull VAC's, VTL's, Conrad Johnson mono blocks were all better. I have an old Densen solid state stereo amp from Denmark with no feedback which bettered the Lamm. Charles I doubt the Single Ended Amp would fare any better. Single ended will not change the darkness or the slowness in amps. All my push pull amps were fast. This is either the designers desires or the sonics of these output tubes. I have a friend who had the big Lamm hybrid monoblocks and said they were slow and dark as well. I was really let down on the Lamm as reviews have touted them as the holy grail. Maybe someone would like them on a really lean speaker!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Jwm (System | Threads | Answers | This Thread)

I believe it. That's one reason why the Lamm SETs mate well with Wilsons....

agear

Charles, its a beautiful and mellifuous recording. Truly lovely.

agear

And back to the regularly scheduled programming:

Charles, I did snag a copy (Universal Japan) of Gerry Mulligan's Night Lights. McFabulous. Your recs are spot on (when it comes to music)....:)

agear

11-27-14: Isochronism
You just made my Ignore List.

Have a great Thanksgiving, all. :)

Unfortunately, the truth cannot be ignored. Another tidbit regarding Buddhism: due to perceptions of it being escapist and selfish in nature (transcending the wheel of becoming), the concept of Bodhisattva was added later to combat this or add balance. The Bodhisattva "chooses" to return to help mankind. Maybe I am an audio Bodhisattva...:/

agear

11-26-14: Isochronism
Charles,
What are you and your friend up there, going to listen to next?
"Hello Dali"???? :)

Let me guess. Elevator jazz....

agear

11-26-14: Isochronism
Agera,
Tibet has the highest mountain ranges in the world.
Dali Lama is the head Monk of the Tibetan school of Buddism.
You are the one who placed Charles on the mountaintop.......
Do you get ironicism?

I am actually pointing out the error of his ways. It is a mission of mercy....

The real irony is the actual structure built around said Dali Lama in light of the buddhist tradition....if you meet him on the road, kill him or make him your man-god.

agear

11-25-14: Isochronism
Agera,
Actually, A Gastric flatulence sound is produced by a forcing through the Sphincter muscle, akin to blowing through a trumpets mouthpiece. It has nothing to do with the Gluteus Maximus muscle as in your cheek reference.
Charles, Sorry, don't think of my analogy when you pick up your Trumpet...

At least I have you thinking. The medial soft tissue mass of the gluteus provides the rumble functioning much like a horn. Without it, there is little to impress your friends with.

Iso, believe it or not, I studied Eastern Religions as my undergrad major (in addition to the biological sciences) including many courses on Buddhism. I am thus very familiar with that quote and could not resist the bastardization. Richard Hopkins, the translator for the Dali Lama, was one of my profs at the University of Virginia.

Another well known saying is "if you meet the Buddha on the road, kill him." I use a variation on this in my personal attacks on Charles. I am trying to knock him off his mountain top, but he is stubborn....

agear

1-24-14: Charles1dad
Andrew,
Don't confuse smug with contentment and happiness. Although I'll admit the mountain air is refreshing and invigorating.

Its a matter of perspective. Looking up, one sees smugness. Looking down, a peaceful benevolence.

11-24-14: Isochronism
Agear,
"If you have integrity, nothing else matters.
If you do not have integrity, nothing else matters" - Zen saying

Well, I have one better, a zen koan from the 13th century:

"the sound of one cheek farting..."

Is your mind blown yet?

agear

11-23-14: Isochronism
Charles,
My advise is for you to stop being so perfectly and predictably reasonable so that this fine page of your's will continue on....

or so predictably smug. Is anyone else here annoyed by this? Yes Charles, we get it. We struggle and fight and argue, and you sit on the mountain top in full lotus position. Don't worry Iso, the thread will continue, and Charles will continue to dispense his wisdom from above....

agear

If I had to describe the difference between this and all other amps that I have listened to, including the tube amps, it would be this: With other amps, there is a forward motion to the music. In a way, it's almost as if the amp is dictating the speed of that forward motion, although I never noticed that before owning this one. Of course, all music has it's own forward motion, but with this amp, and I guess SET in general, the music seems to
"unfold" before me, and inner rhythms and timing cues created by bass lines, pianos, strummed guitars etc., are exposed in a way that is new to me, and very musically engaging.

Well said. I think your speaker choice is critical in all this and is why many people throw in the towel with SETs. Charles had the wisdom to allow a designer to make this decision for him, and if more people followed that path there would be less time spent in audio purgatory.

Roxy54, any word on TVAD? :)

agear

I very nearly pulled the trigger on the Rites of Passage. Would be phenomenal with my current speakers. Too much heat and a crappy amp to have around kiddos....

agear

this is another phenomenal source of quality recordings including jazz: http://www.soundliaison.com/products-from-our-studio-masters/135-andre-heuvelman-flac

Hi rez dowloads....

agear

09-24-14: Isochronism
Hi Agear, After checking out your provided link, I will order "The Voice That Is".
Your mention of L7 immediately made me think Gibson. Barry Galbraith.
They are my favorite guitar brand, tho I do not have one of their Jazz-Boxes, I had always desired one.
Thanks for the link and getting me thinking.

Iso, it is good to have you back as Charles indicated. Let me know what you think of that music. You need a system page (as do I).

agear

This is one of the best recordings I own: Ali Akbar Khan - Indian Architexture

Recorded straight to 1-inch analog tape on a custom-built, all-triode tube recording chain. Mastered direct to DSD on a Sonoma system by Chris Rice and authored by Gus Skinas.

"With this recording, the prize for the listener is to be taken through every emotion, Khansahib knows the terrain, let him drive." — Ry Cooder.

"True music of the spirit, recorded with the sonic truth of vacuum tubes in this age of computer chips, compulsory listening, lest we forget where its at." — Keith Jarrett, Commemorating The 70th Birthday of Padmavibhushan Dr. Ali Akbar Khan.

I actually have the 24/88 version from HDtracks

Another dandy is this: http://store.acousticsounds.com/d/94132/Johnny_Hartman-The_Voice_That_Is-DSD_Download

Hartman signing Sunrise Sunset gives me chills. Organic and lovely. The L7 renders DSD in a most marvelous way....

agear

Charles, which version of Night Lights is the best?

agear

09-21-14: Charles1dad
Agear,
That strategy could be effective, I don't drink and therefore I'm unable to verify. I suspect there are an ample number of folks here who could attest to this methodology and its benefits.
Charles,

Charles, as one clinician to another, I think you would agree that a lot of audiophilia is self medication (via endorphin release) for depression, anxiety and whatnot. That being understood, there could be something said for medical marijuana in this setting. A chemically induced euphoria would lessen the likelihood of soulless wandering for new equipment and increase enjoyment of what we have in the here and now. Just a thought....

agear

09-19-14: Grannyring
Charles,

I ask a favor of you. I would like to listen to more jazz and want your guidance. I like jazz, but not the volatile nervous style. I hope you know what I mean here. I like more mellow and inviting. I tend to like sax that is not piercing , but more intimate.

Can you share 5 recordings for me to start with?

I recommend (and I think Charles in his abundant wisdom would agree) one or more adult beverages as a prelude to any listening session. It loosens the sphincter tone and dulls those pointy saxophone notes.

agear

Charles, do you have much experience rolling 274Bs?

agear

Oh I see. I forgot about that. Yes, the 7 went on a brief tour including the Fritz room. The 5 is what you heard in the Mosaic reference room. The 7 did not make it over to the reference room until after the show. Based on that brief experience, both Rob and Fred decided to buy Mosaic speakers. Dale hates digital and was deeply impressed by the 7. C'est la vie.

agear

09-01-14: Charles1dad
Andrew,
I heard the L7 DAC at THE S.H.O.W.(Las Vegas) earlier this year. Although under less than ideal conditions in an unfamiliar system I still got the sense it was special. You have confirmed this and I'm glad it's all you expected and maybe more.

The show was a little rough according to those involved. The primary culprit was most likely the speakers (and room). Due to power limitations, the setup occurred on the long wall. Furthermore, the speakers, which I now own, sound like rat piss for 3+ weeks. Literally.

The 7 is better than I expected. It is an analog machine in a sea of digital glare...

agear

08-29-14: Charles1dad
Agear,
Good idea about an accompanying photograph, I'll have to remember to bring home my ER Polaroid camera. Thanks for the suggestion.

Charles, a polaroid or quick phone shot from the wife capturing your facial expression while fully entranced would also be helpful.

You asked about my L7 on another thread and I was deliberately cryptic. It is a superb dac that you would approve of. I sit. I listen. I am now officially a bore.

agear

08-28-14: Charles1dad
For my fellow jazz lovers,
Oliver Nelson, "Nocturne".
Charlie Rouse, "Unsung Hero".
John Coltrane, "Plays for Lovers".
These three tenor saxophonists have their own distinctive voice and style. Each one is able to play that instrument heavenly and deeply express music's beautiful emotion. It's an absolute joy listening to them communicate tonight in my room.

A good photograph would help us share this moment with you vicariously Charles....

On a jazz note, Celine Bonacina is a baritone saxophonist who is worth hearing: http://www.celine-bonacina.com

agear

Look at all Charles' defenders. Tisk, tisk. This is an intervention and not time for further enabling.

The images provided have the artistic merit of an ER polaroid. Taken in haste (note the oblique angle of the lone system shot and clipped speaker base) and with harsh, quasi-fluorescent lighting. Like the rest of us, Charles is a creature who is shaped by the environment he inhabits. When a patient presents to the Emergency room with an injury, a photographic record is required and thus my reference to the infamous "ER polaroid." Mechanical, soulless but necessary. Its information and not art. This approach belies the beautify of his equipment and what we know he is hearing.

Charles, I would recommend starting with this: dim the lights if possible. Turn off your flash and open up the aperture. Crouch behind your listening position and let us see what you see in those "wee hours."

agear

07-05-14: Albertporter
Your description of the Yamamoto is precisely what I'm looking for in a DAC. I don't know yet if my new acquisition will fulfill that need or not.

Ditto. That is why I ordered the Lampi L7 (based on reports from end users). I also eyeballed the Allnic and it looks beautiful. I am sure you will be pleased. It appears that a DHT minimalist output topology has a lot of promise.

I am pleased for you, digital is the toughest nut to crack in high end audio. All the rest is easy, at least in my experience.

I could not agree more Albert. Digital is the toughest nut. As a preteen, my first source was vinyl, and in many ways I have been swimming upstream trying to get back to that "sound."

Albert, I have always appreciated photography, and I very much enjoy seeing individual rooms captured. Since you care deeply about both realms, would you be willing to help Charles as a mission of mercy? Possibly fly in to Michigan to help him capture his room? Charles is not a complete audiophile yet. The equipment is there. The language and sensibility is there. The photography is not.

agear

Charles, please note the date of my post. There is usually a lag of 1-3 days in my posts.

agear

Charles, thanks for the feedback on Well tempered.

I am intrigued to hear about how the Romulus fairs against the Lampi. I thought Jeff had a L5?

agear

Charles, tell me about your experiences with the Well tempered TT. I am inheriting my grandmother's vinyl collection in addition to resurrecting my own. I have a friend or two raving about the WT Amadeus. I am also looking at Triangle. My bias at this point is to start with a restored vintage table (cheaper) and go from there....

agear

I realize that the sucessful Troy -Apprentice pairing did not require a stroke of great skill or thought on my part. Pretty predictable outcome in hindsight.

False humility is not a good disguise for smugness. It broadcasts even via cyberspace....:/

agear

Roxy, I too miss Tvads acidic intelligence (in the same way I miss Pubul57 who sadly passed away). You guys are linked at the hip due to your system page.

Charles, your victory parade continues.....:/

agear

Roxy54, where is TVAD? He has been a little scarce as of late....:/

agear

That sounds awesome Charles. I will be interested to hear your report.

Thanks for the steady stream of music recs. Always appreciated.

agear

They are both fine products. Dale did design his older generation of speakers around the first generation Stillpoints which added speed, bass, and dimensionality. I always thought there was a little something askew in the midrange (very subtle) and did not verify that until i experimented with the Apprentice stands. Dale's current line of speakers are outfitted with 1/4 20 inserts and have been voiced with Starsound audio points.

agear

I've done side-by-side comparisons under speakers.

Here's that review: http://hometheaterreview.com/star-sound-technologies-sistrum-apprentice-speaker-platforms/

agear

Charles, here is a promotional blurb on the Starsound site: http://starsoundtechnologies.com/EnergyRooms.php

agear

I'll throw this back at you regarding "inertia". I and other interested folks have waited patiently(3 years?) for pictures and system page of your mechanically grounded room and components. What's the hold up? No more excuses Andrew.

I was expecting that response. I am merely a victim Charles. I am at the mercy of others in this whole process (manufacturers...my speakers will be on route as of Friday; electricians, etc, etc).

You, Charles, on the other hand, have only yourself to blame. I grew very familiar with inertia while in Minnesota. It is a very "midwestern" way of being.

Rene Descartes said, famously: "I think, therefore I am."

In the upper midwest, that same dictum becomes: "I resist, therefore I am."

Just look at how long it took those ghastly halogen-tinged images to disappear...:/

In all seriousness, the formal room unveiling is probably 2-3 months away. Getting close!

agear

After many months of enjoying The Tripoint Troy and the Sistrum Apprentice plateforms I've decided to finally combine them. Miguel(Tripoint builder/owner) had mentioned quite a while ago that good platforms will positively impact the Troy.

The grand irony is that I have been harping on Miguel to try Sistrum under his magic boxes for some time and I have been met with the same inertia....

agear

12-13-13: Agear
Charles, have you thought about popping the Troy on an Apprentice stand?
Agear (Reviews | Threads | Answers | This Thread)

Please note the date of that post....:/

agear

Charles, what happened to that halogen lamp? I miss it's searing ambiance.

agear

Tbg has a Troy signature and changing out the stock points to Starsound 1.5s had a surprising impact....

agear

Charles, have you thought about popping the Troy on an Apprentice stand?

agear

It's funny how a single ended system grows on you. Since having mine I can't wait to listen and really am more relaxed at the same time. I never listened this much or had this much pleasure using various push pull amps. in the past.

ditto

agear

In all seriousness, when a system thread revolves around music, the host is in a good place sonically. I know that comment will keep Charles on his parade float even longer, but it had to be made.

I have dutifully noted the recs about (I too am a jazzophile). Here are some "alternative" recs:

1. Hadouk Trio
a. Air Hadouk
b. Live At Fip

2. Trio Chemirani, Invite
3. Joel Grare, Paris-Instabul-Shanghai
4. Hector Zazou & Swara, In the House of Mirrors
5. Jen Chapin, Light of Mine
6. Sara K, Are we there yet?
7. David Grisman & Tony Rice, Tone Poems
8. Jerry Garcia & David Grisman, So What

9. Dhafer Youssef
a. Abu Nawas Rhapsody
b. Divine Shadows

10. Jaques Pellen, Ephemera
11. Antoine Dufour, Existence
12. The Wailin' Jennys, Firecracker
13. Tchavolo Schmitt, Seven Gypsy Nights

agear

I see that this thread has disintegrated into exchanges about MUSIC. Outrageous.

agear

I own Parker's Mood, and it is very good. I will have to check out Glidin Along and Candy......

agear

I see your pics now. I did not see them last pm

agear

Krell_man, what happened to your system thread? You had beautiful pics and a killer rig. Pics please....

Please note that Krell_man owns the all brass stands from Sistrum which makes what we all own sound like cheese whiz....from what I am told.

agear

Hi Charles. The combination does pose potential problems. The Viva keeps me in there with crappy vintage Pioneers. Maybe the wife will experience a new level of homicidal rage in response to my audio shenanigans.....

Yes, I will use the Troy and conditioner together. Besides, I cannot afford Miguel's conditioners.

agear

Jwm, good audio memory. Dale still haunts audio. The jumbo Amethyst 10As were monstrosities that needed a protractor for proper setup and time alignment. Essence was sold and the buyer passed away sadly soon thereafter. I have audio buddies who owned his gear for years and years. One gentlemen went to Rocky Mountain last year and did not hear anything he liked better than his highly modded 10As! There is still a line of people still waiting to pick up his used pre-amps and amps. Dale later reappeared as Intuitive Design (speakers) and Mosaic (cables, conditioner, etc). I have owned his speakers on and off since 2006. I currently have his SOTA power conditioner (Theorem Suspension Bridge) and cabling. His conditioner, like the Tripoint stuff, is transformative IMO. He is a master of sorts with an amazing ear for things musical particularly in the sound staging and imaging department. His speakers are spooky.

agear

Thanks for asking Charles. Things are in limbo for the following reasons:

1. Speakers: I sold my Intuitive Design Gamma Summits due to baby safety issues. I am awaiting a floor stander from Dale Pitcher as a surrogate. I am currently using a Vietnam era pair of Pioneers I bought on Craigslist for $75! If you put your nose up to the drivers, you can see THC crystals. I have them on Apprentice stands, and it is amazing how good they sound for what they are. Just silly. Those stands work. Robert heard these things before he left not too long ago.

2. Front end: I will be getting a Lampizator dac once my little startup is no longer hemorrhaging. Late fall maybe? It will have DSD functionality, so I will use a Mac mini for hi rez duty and my wifi unit for streaming rebook.

3. Amp: This is my most exciting news at this point. I missed my TRL ST-100 and missed tubes. My new speaker from Dale is 8 Ohm and 93 dB efficient, so I thought it was high time to demo a SET. I had dabbled in the past with less than ideal speakers. The Kora 50W Galaxy was excellent but a menace to bias and chewed up tubes. I sold my Neodio, which was a fabulous amp, and stumbled onto a great deal for a Viva Solista. It is fabulous in that it combines the speed and dynamics I loved about TRL with that inner SET glow. I love classical music but always leaned away from it due to the substandard recordings, etc. The Solista renders classical music beautifully. It is a real treat. So, I have you to thank for fanning the SET flame allow with Calloway and Clayton Oxedine, my local speaker guru and former Kora dealer.

4. Tripoint: $$$. Hopefully will have a unit in the late winter/new year.

5. Room: finishing touches pending. mechanically grounded sconces in progress. The ionic ground and subpanel were screwed up a little and need to be redone. We are also awaiting parts from SS to ground the subpanel.

So, the formal thread will most likely appear when the leaves are off the trees.

agear

Charles do we see a new lamp in your future. How about one of those old vintage English Gas lights. I think Ebay would help on this.

grand idea. anything but interrogation white halogen....

There's actually little tube "glow" with my Coincident components.

It will be more apparent if you use the dimmer on your halogen beauty....

Charles, I know you are at a little disadvantage since your photographic frame of reference is the ER polaroid....

Here is a good system thread example of what I am suggesting: http://cgim.audiogon.com/i/vs/s/f/1203537476.jpg

agear

Charles, the UK distributor of Entreq Silver Tellus states that his product and Troy work on different principles. Troy works on grounding direct to the mains and individual components' chassis' (ie the electronics directly - which is why the Troy ground leads fix directly to the screws on the chassis'). Whereas Entreq connects via the rca/xlr/phono jacks directly to the signal's ground plane.

I've spoken with Miguel about this issue. That is misinformation. The Troy also works on the signal level. There's much more to the Troy than grounding...:)

agear

Elescher, nice system. I see the YGs were replaced by Vivds. I believe those are made in SA correct? My Dad was born in Capetown and my Mom in Zim. We still have lots of family in SA but I have not been back since 2003 due to my crappy work schedule.

Interesting observations about the Troy. Did you try grounding the xover? I am unsure about the value of grounding alumimum and/or a class D sub amp? Maybe Migeul could address that....

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Charles, I have been a pretty accomplished amateur photographer since 1987. Your recent offerings are a little lackluster. Please, ditch the cheap halogen floor lamp that blisters the corneas in that one shot and take some lowlight pics with all your tubes aglow. You are doing Coincident a disservice here....

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Some shelf products because of material selection and fasteners would lend themselves to grounding of the component and then the shelf to ground.

Absolutely! I plan on grounding my Sistrum stands. Robert, Miguel, and I have banged around this idea for a while. Grounding the stand rather than simply the chassis establishes a bigger, better grounding plane so to speak. We also toyed with the idea of grounding my actual room or at least the rods in the walls. Time will tell.

Okay Charles, your system has evolved significantly in the last year or so. However, your pictures have not. You have gone backwards in that department.

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Spirit is a recent and vocal convert. People have been talking about Tripoint and this approach to grounding for years including myself. I just did not have the cash handy to buy.

Spirit, why do you feel the need for additional grounding? The good news is the Troy will not need extra grounding elements. Its already overbuilt....

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That's great Charles. I sometimes do that test when I am unsure, but in this case, it seems to be redundant. I assumed it would take a week or more to settle and bloom.

I am going to put my unit on an apprentice stand. Miguel was going to reach out to Starsound and experiment with their newer stands....

I love McBride too. Night train is a fabulous test track.

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Charles, congrats again. I am not sure why my post shows two days later. Anyway, the real test is to remove it from your system after a month and see what happens.

hifi, grounding can have an effective on an ostensibly quiet system. I had the ASR Emitter which is tombstone quiet. Grounding (Ionic not Tripoint) had an impact. The test that baby wants to be performed has already be done and I am unsure if it will be duplicated anytime soon. You should start with the Entreq which is cheap and has a return policy. If you like what you hear, you know where to go....

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Tripoint report?

Sal, I had the ground zero device. Very effective for the $ but nowhere near the same level of efficacy.....

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The great thing is that unlike switching components, if you're happy with the general character of your system (which I know you are) you'll be enhancing it to the max, not altering it.

Bingo. That's the whole point....

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So Charles, I heard u picked up a Tripoint Troy. Well, I have a prediction to make: the parade float gets even bigger.

The only piece missing now is a Lampizator dac.....

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According to Robert at SS, the apprentice stand was favorably compared to the Ultra 5s which represent the TOTL product in a magazine review which should be forthcoming. This bodes well for SS, and remember, the apprentice is their base model.

Charles. we may soon grow weary of your victory parade. You have had one success after another which is atypical for audio. No fair....

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Bravo Charles. Now you are really cooking.

On my Gamma Summits, the Sistrum apprentice stands with threaded bolts in addition to the points made them more stable than Stillpoints and better sounding too. With a heavy floor stander and low profile stands like the apprentice, you should be fine if you add the threaded inserts. On heavy floor standing speakers with a broad base (Zu IVs for example), they are very, very stable with points only.

Also remember that there is a settling time. It will mellow out and get fuller and honestly better sounding over the course of a week or so...

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Talk to Robert. They make a brass threaded screw insert for the speaker base in addition to the points. This locks in the stand pretty firmly and should be stable

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Hey Charles, that's great news. The biggest impact will be under your speakers although it will be a chore from an engineering standpoint.

Due to my 18 month old, I sold my Gamma Summit speakers which are a 100 lb monitor that was somewhat mobile. I am getting a floor stander from Dale (same company) that will be mounted on apprentice stands.

Keep us posted.

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You will have to chat with Robert about that. I have no clue. I depends on what stand type you chose. I think they are close to being available. An audio buddy just ordered a set of new monitor stands and they are shipping this week...

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Charles, when are you expecting your stands from Robert?

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Charles, are you going to buy a whole loom of high fidelity cabling given your findings with the digital cable?

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The fuses are absurd. It is the cheapest and most impactful tweak I have used to date. I am glad you are enjoying them....

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I am glad you like the fuses. The guy who told me about them (thanks Joe Tucker) warned me about needing 300 hours or so. He was right!

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Thanks for the music recs Charles. Love jazz too.

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Now they`re beneath all of my components and without any question this product is beneficial.There is a lowered noise floor, resolution, nuance,spatial information and dynamic contrast are better.The "you are there" perception is heightened.

Charles, you are on a roll. The Sistrum effect is definitely additive. One of the principal attributes that I enjoy is the impartation of ambient energy. That is the essence of a plausible, sonic illusion.

Charles, was the fuse experiment a bust? Try reorienting them? I am still curious about the magnet idea.....

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Chuck, that is an excellent point. What markers dictate orientation? I know that was true for the HiFi stuff.

Tom, magnets are being used by a bunch of guys, including tripoint audio, and Rick Schultz. I believe Rick is the one who actually popularized their use in the signal path...

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That is intereting Tom. Is that a Rick Schutlz thing?

My tubed preamp and amp have no fuses...just a breaker/switch as Bill referenced.

I have a single fuse in my source. Replaced stock fuse with HiFi tuning supreme and now the Synergistic. The later takes 300 hours. It still may fall flat. They have a 30 day return policy. U should a good sense by 100 hrs....

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Let me know what u think of the fuses....

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Charles, I think that is a wise philosophy. However, given the potential impact under your speakers and a presumed trial period, it is worth a shake. I have to confess that it gets old spending big bucks for lateral movements only. It is refreshing to find something that works and is worth the investment. I look at it as a long term investment towards a foundational element in the system....

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The one thing to be cognizant of is inflation. The cost of raw materials like brass and steel has gone up significantly in the last few years. I discovered this during the construction of my room. I presume this will have an impact on the backstage and stage products. Starsound is very fair with their pricing considering the material and labor cost involved. These are not cheesy stands.

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Roxy, they are the next generation of product from Starsound. You can give Robert a shout about them. They are not ready yet as far as I know.

Brf, due the size of my behemoth amp, I had the legs modified as well. Works well....

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That is a really great observation Charles. I had discussed that very thing with Robert at Starsound a few months ago. We were talking about the Chalice amps, and Robert commented on their tube socket implementation and how proper grounding effected tube performance. Crazy stuff.

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Looks really good Charles. From the aerial view of the amp and stand, it looks as if the amp needs to rotate counterclockwise. Is that an optical illusion based on the photograph angle? I am not sure if this is really essential for sonics. For really heavy amps, it is optimal to place two points in proximity to the transformer.

Let me know how those fuses sound. They take 100-300 hrs to sound their best....

agear

Congrats Charles. That is wonderful news.

Keep your mind open to the using them under speakers when the newer backstage platform appears. I myself need absolute stability due to having a toddler in the house. I will be demoing the backstage for my speakers in the next 2-3 months. I will keep you posted on how it goes.

Brf is right to bring up the coupling disc issue. They theoretically optimize the energy transfer particularly under tube amps. Starsound has a lager disc coming out soon which I am going to use under my amp.

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Believe it or not, the greatest effect can be had under speakers. I will let you know how my experiment goes with the Backstage. I need absolute security with my toddler jetting around. Things were not stable with the Stillpoints and the 101s are better but not ideal. This new screw-based system that is an option with the Backstage and should be the ticket.

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Bravo Charles. You get it. Enjoy.

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Bill, that's true. Takes a week or more to settle in. Noted that with the crossover mod. Robert at Starsound warns people about this....

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Good deal. Keep us posted....

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Charles, they are beautiful pieces and well constructed.

You can snag those bolts at Home Depot....

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Blast from the past: http://www.stereophile.com/features/806/index.html

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Brf, 80 lb monoblocks would be better served by 101s. I presume it was a cost issue.

Material science is an interesting field. the composition of brass used is supposed to effect the sound. Most brass used today comes from China. Where the points are fabricated does not alter that fact.

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Palasr, u get it. I have done things like that internally with xovers and transformers and it makes a difference (to my ear)...

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Brf, what amps and how much did they weigh? Did you remove the rubber feet? What were the amps sitting on before? What did your system consist of at the time?

The 004s are more for diminutive front end gear IMO. The 101s or now backstage are the way to go. Every system and component is different, thus the 30 day trial. The new thread system I mentioned above will make the speaker as or more stable than stock points.

As for the argument that all brass points are created equal, it comes down to whether you believe in the engineering principles at hand and whether material science has any value. If the stock chinese points sound best, have at it. People say the same things above chinese versus custom, US made transformers. If they "specs" are the same, they must sound the same....

agear

My short answer is Sistrum by a country mile. However, the overall impact of mechanical grounding is influenced by "noise" levels. Regarding Sistrum, my personal experience has been that entities that either generate and or are exposed to the most vibrational energy (room>subs>speakers>amps, etc) are the most amenable to Sistrum. Amps do well do presumably to transformer issues. Furthermore, components that do attempt mechanical grounding or other competing schemes may be less responsive.

I think caps and resistors make a big difference as well particularly in circuits that are well designed and low noise. A cap or resistor cannot necessarily redeem a crappy design. The "impact" of replacing caps and resistors is partly dictated by the quality of parts used which sadly enough is often Kmart quality even in equipment that is uber pricey. It's disconcerting to spend big bucks and find 3c resistors...:(

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Charles, the newer Sistrum "backstage" has the option for threaded inserts. I will be converting my speakers from stillpoints to the backstage. My preliminary experiments comparing Stillpoints to SP101s favored the Sistrum product despite my speakers being designed around the Stillpoints. I am pleased with this outcome because it makes my speakers much safer for my little Hannah.....:)

agear

Try the stands under the speakers if possible just to get a taste. Subs and speakers have the most impact followed by amps. IMO, it is a foundational technology that should remain while components come and go.

Keep us posted. The stands have their own settle in time as well. I am sure Robert told you....

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Charles, the fuse takes a LONG time to burn IMO. 100-300 hrs. I noted changes at the 300 hr mark. Self-deception? Who knows at this point. A very impressive little tweak....

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Charles, I have the Synergistic fuse in my source. Very good.

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Bill, you described the Sistrum effect perfectly: Dueland-like indeed.

Charles, in the last picture of your xover, that white rectangular objects looks suspiciously like a sand cast resistor.

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Charles, I have read that in places, and some have created a spurious casual link to metallic ringing of the stands. The actual resonance of the materials within the stand is subsonic according to Robert and the Starsound gang who are mostly engineers.

The Sistrum stands are like a microscope or magnifying glass that provide greater focus while also unleashing dynamic energy. If your components are well designed, it is a win win situation.

If you like, you can start small and introduce Sistrum concepts into the mechanical grounding of your xover and transformers. You can mount the xovers on a brass plate, drill them out, and attach small brass audiopoints. (I did this with my Frieds). You can mount the transformers in your amps on small audiopoints as well. Give Robert at Starsound a call. He can talk you through it.

Regarding your equipment, I would start with the speakers. That has the biggest impact followed by your amps.

Not to let the cat out of the bag, but my room construction was guided by the above principles. My room is mechanically grounded (at least the walls are).

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Charles, I do use Sistrum under all my electronics. Makes a substantial difference.

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The Clifford Bown album is indeed excellent.

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Charles, I am satisfied with the Duelands. They are the most organic cap I have 'heard." The only problem I had with objectivity during the early phases was that there were too many variables changing at once. The Dude had a new volume control in place, new solid core wire, etc with their associated break in periods. I also had just added Sistrum racks under all the equipment, so again, another change.

Unlike Bill, my cap experience is somewhat limited. I had Mundorf supremes in the Dude before and they were not exactly bad. When I still owned the Frieds, i tried several different caps in the xover (stock was Zen; then Mundorf Supremes and then AudioCap PCU). The Audiocap PCU was very, very good much like the Duelands but without the same degree of resolution.

Onemug, that is indeed a very interesting question. I have NO direct experience with transformer coupled equipment. A friend of mine does and has owned many SOTA pre-amps that are transformer coupled (Audionote, Ypsilon) and he claims that he can now hear the negative effects of transformer coupling. He has moved away from them. He believes, as do I, that much of this is system dependent, and a matter of whether these artifacts can even be heard. He owns SOTA power conditioning products that lowers noise floor tremendously, and this may be part of the reason why. Remember that manufacturers don't always possess SOTA systems for voicing. They may not be able to "hear" some of this stuff either.

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In my pre-amp, it was 200+ hours and counting....

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Charles, I am ahead of you regarding the amps. Paul is putting Duelands in his current generation tube amps

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I got my Dude back with the Duelands in place. Very pinched and bright at first blush. I thought I needed a new pre-amp. Bill talked me down. At 72 hours, the magic had arrived. The most coherent and musical cap I have EVER heard in this application. Nuanced, organic, without overemphasis, blah, blah. I use piano to put things to the test, and the D's nail it.

Onemug, that article is a ringer. I stumbled across it a few years ago online sleuthing for God knows what. It resonates with me and seems "true." Most of the audio blabber I read is flushed down the toilet, but that article sticks. I would love to see that experiment repeated focusing on the source alone (master tape, LP, CD) within a single system.

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Charles, how long was the breakin?

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Hi Morganc, I will share more in due time. The room game is tricky and takes multiple sets of ears and minds. You cannot do it alone which runs counter to our audiophile reflexes. As you pointd out, room acoustics, being part of high end audio, is riddled with opinions. There are lots of approaches and no one "right" way. I have simply stumbled into one that is unique and new and is a derivative of Starsound Technology's approach to grounding. As a disclaimer, I am no expert. Just a bimbo with a checkbook.

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The best part of the experience was actually being able to meet Bill. My wife, who is also prone to acidic observations about this pathologic hobby, likes to point out that audiophiles are isolationist weirdos. Having Bill stop by was good medicine for her jaded perceptions.

Charles, it was not cheap, but then again neither is a lot of the gear we buy. Several older and wiser philes have told me the room is king. No way around that. We huff and puff about equipment on this site and forget the fundamentals. I did. What a fool I have been.

I did a pilot test when the room was partially finished (concrete floors, no inner drywall, etc). I set my neighbors $300 Klipsh speakers, a Marantz integrated, zip cord, along with an apple airport express as a front end. It sounded more "live" and engaging than the big rig upstairs. Yes, the high frequencies were a little rugged, but still. I was shocked. I felt like a rube.

Anyway, Charles you deserve kudos. A small minority of people in this hobby have done what you have: enjoy the music. I had more joy as a preteen with my Bose 501s and NAD integrated and Akai tape deck than I did for a good percentage of my time as an audiofool.

agear

Glad you enjoyed it. I did.

I think a lot of it may come down to even versus odd order harmonics along with speaker voicing and source material quality. I am intrigued by what DSD holds in store for us. Gary "Glory" Anderson heard a demo at Rocky Mountain where the master tape and ripped DSD file were essentially indistinguishable.

SS amplification has come a long way, but in my system, it did not work....

agear

Charles, longevity of a system is a sign of wisdom and maturity. I have made impulsive decisions in the past that only led to audio purgatory (the kind that keeps Audiogon busy). One of the smartest things I have heard is to "live" with a piece of gear for at least a year, particularly speakers, before you sell.

Ironically, I have yet to hear my Dude with Duelands. It is on the way back from Paul at TRL. I have a vintage Onkyo pre-amp borrowed from a friend running the ST-100s, and I am getting surprisingly good sound.

The room is still a work in progress (a lot of work!). A formal reveal will probably be in the spring. Bill Grannyring Dion actually made it down to Charlotte on business and was able to hear it. It was a lot of fun. Bill is a true gentleman and an incredible asset to Audiogon, although his wife has taken to lampooning his pursuits (http://www.theaudiophileswife.com/).

Finally, Charles, you may have read this article already, but it is very apropos to your system and findings: http://www.stereophile.com/features/203/index.html

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Grannyring the evangelist. Good stuff. Thanks to Bill, I have Duelands going into my Dude.

You guys can also consider mechanical grounding of xovers and transformers with Starsound audiopoints. I mounted my Fried xover on a brass plate that was affixed to small brass spikes. Noticeable difference. Starsound claims the mod produces a measurable difference.

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Charles, I am actually in transition. Had the ASR on Fried Ref speakers. Got rid of those and have my old ones back. The ASR, as good as it is and was, did not synergize with my Gamma Summits. Thus, I had the good fortune of snagging the TRL ST-100 100W tube amp which makes my speakers sing. My Dude is being upgraded as we speak so I was merely reporting on what Bill Grannyring Dion and others have discovered.

Philip, you can also pimp Bill for more data....

agear

Philip, the Dude's behavior can be altered markedly by changing the output capacitors along with tube selection. Paul is now using Dueland cast caps in the current generation of Dude's with spectacular results, including more detail, air, etc. That being said, you have to live with something to really know. There is a lot of wisdom in Charle's approach with manufacture synergy. We tend to get too caught up looking at particulars rather than synergy.

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Fiddler, Charles is a perfect gentleman, and did not make that course statement. I did. And it was trite, audio hyperbole....agreed. A more accurate statement or generalization would have been "the LSA is more suited for systems built around particular types of tube amplification."

That brings me to my next question for you: LSA + Hypex class D monoblocks? Or do you still prefer your modded Supratek which had more "three dimensionality"? Please explain.

agear

Agreed. Again, kudos on your system. I wish we all lived a little closer to one another to get the opportunity to do more listening. My wife and I moved from Minneapolis to Charlotte, NC in 08 and are slowly getting grafted into the community here. Happy listening....

agear

Amen to all that. When comparing the LSA and Dude (with appropriate setup and parameters in place for a passive), the Dude just creamed it in terms of dynamics, palpability, etc. I have tried direct drive with my source which has lots of gain and a digital volume control, used the Granite Audio 657 with no pre-amp (with its built-in Alps volume control and tube buffer stage), and all fell short IMO.

The Coincident stuff looks very nice and well made. The linestage seems to focus on mechanical grounding and chassis isolation which should make for a much lower noise floor. A lot of manufacturers shirk that part.

The LSA thread is insufferable. Circular logic abounds. My favorite is "that wasn't in the original recording..." So, three dimensionality, palpability and whatnot are artifact??? Again, if you take the time to peruse the DIY sites about "optocouplers," you discover that they are not free of their own distortion and sonic signature. The idea that LDRs are a clearer window is spurious. That being said, I am sure they can sound fine in a lower resolution system relying on tube amplification.

agear

Great system Charles and nice descriptive comparison of the Dude and Coincident linestage. I know you are familiar with the Lightspeed attenuator thread. It appears as if someone with the Coincident linestage and Frankenstein amps traded in the linestage for a LSA (http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?aamps&1276356977&read&keyw&zzcoincident)

Have you ever thought of trying that? I would love to hear your impressions. I myself heard it in my rig and it degraded the sound considerably. I was/am baffled by what these guys are "hearing." Its amusing to read through some of the DIY sites (a lot of which are used to promote cottage industries like George at Lightspeed) and see that amongst DIYers, there is no clear consensus as to the superiority of that device (http://rockgrotto.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=m&action=print&thread=4066). See the comments from Russ at Twisted Pear Audio...

agear

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