Recently, I went to see Mussorgsky's Pictures at an Exhibition at Avery Fisher Hall, Lincoln Center. Also featured was a piece by Ravel that I loved and in between a more modernist piece featuring three solo cellos. We were in the 8th Row, orchestra level, on the right side of the stage.

I must say, the sound was incredible and far beyond the capabilities of my system. My memory constantly fails me, but the lasting impression was that of DYNAMICS and MAGNITUDE. Incredible dynamics. And perfect (obviously) detail and coherence. There were moments when the music was filling my head in the way that headphones fill the head, but there was also huge sound hitting the body and running through the floorboards and the seat. It was a visceral, full body experience. I would guess that the SPL peaked above 100db where I was sitting and during the most powerful sections. I am curious to know what it would take to replicate the sound (with all of its coherence, dynamics, detail) and volume of that orchestra in that hall in one's home. I would think multiple drivers, lots of power, and very good crossover networks.

Switching back to my system, I attempted to reach SPL levels approaching what I heard at the show. Negative, Ghost Rider! My single-driver, backloaded horns are not equipped to handle anything approaching a complicated, loud, orchestral piece at those kinds of volumes. The single driver simply gets overwhelmed. Compression sets in and details are completely lost. It becomes a "wall of noise" situation. I would guess that my system maxes out at about 90db sustained, probably closer to 85db when we are talking about a full orchestra. Transient peaks are easy. A full orchestra is not. I am not sure orchestral works will ever sound good on my system.

I am lucky my diet consists mainly of more readily digestible small jazz. I have found that I am able to come a lot closer to the Village Vanguard in my home than Avery Fisher Hall. And that's OK with me!

In other news, the capacitor break-in continues and they are starting to smooth out significantly. I goosed the super tweeters a little bit and they are back in the fold. I think there are still some changes on the way, but things are starting to come together. 80db sustained is now a very listenable volume. I also separated my speakers a bit. They are further apart and closer to the side walls. This gives a larger center image and the speakers breath a little more. There is more room between the instruments.

tjkurita October 30, 2013 20:10

I vote for the 300b Tube for President. Ok, that is ridiculous... but, which 300b tube could out-do Joe Biden, performance wise?

isochronism October 27, 2013 19:02

Approx 30hrs total on the new capacitors now. I am getting to the point where I can't really remember what the amp sounded like before these capacitors. Overall, the sound is very good, in my opinion. There is a lot of speed to the amp that I did not notice before. The amp really keeps up with more lively, jumpy music. The overall response is livelier. Today, I have been listening at louder volumes (75-85 db) and the speed really becomes apparent at these volumes. Detail is still there and the frequency response in the upper to lower mids is nicely balanced. There is no shout in the upper mids, which tells me that my room treatments are probably doing a good job of taming these large speakers.

At louder volumes the most noticeable problem is glare. HUGE amounts of glare at louder volumes to the point where I had to set the super tweeter at zero. This solved a good bit of the glare but reduced some of the presence. I think this is attributable to the rawness of the capacitor. I think the break-in period must continue before the sound settles in. It has that raw, hard, slightly compressed sound. I think most audio nuts are familiar with this sound because we change components so often. My problem right now is that I can't listen at louder volumes because of this glare. Loud is TOO LOUD. I think that as the capacitor breaks in, these problems will be mitigated and the capacitor will "open up," but I must watch out for this.

tjkurita October 24, 2013 19:58

"Long live the 300b amp!"
I'll second that sentiment.

charles1dad October 22, 2013 13:18

Tjkurita,

Interesting report, THanks! Long live the 300b amp!

jetrexpro October 21, 2013 21:33

Tjkurita,
Congratulations this is a serious upgrade based on your in depth description. You're still in the early stage of capacitor burn in and as happy as you are already, improvement will continue (think about that). Your amp must sound fantastic with both improved resolution and harmonic information. I can just imagine the natural music reproduction you've achieved.
Charles,

charles1dad October 21, 2013 11:00

In the extremely early going (the first three hours), there was a very strange quality to the amp that is difficult to describe. I kept thinking to myself: "TOO MUCH AIR!" The sound was too airy. I can't really put it in any other way.

After approximately 12 hrs of running time on the capacitors and the amp, I feel as though I can give some early impressions. Basically, the amp has been running all day long now. I will shut it off before too long and rest it overnight. However, I did a do a very brief listening comparison with my Audiosector Patek SE.

The Patek SE is a 50WPC Gainclone, based on the 47 labs Gaincard. It is a dual-mono design with a separate power supply and black gate capacitors. It is a very good-sounding amplifier. It is quick and detailed. It does offer that "you are there" sensation due to the level of detail. Accurate and nice sounding. It can be a bit fatiguing due to its starkness. It is not a very romantic amplifier and has more of an analytical sound. At least to my ears. In various reviews I have read of the gaincard and the well executed gainclones, these amps are generally characterized as rather smooth. More SET-like than other SS amps. My ears are tuned to the more harmonically dense all-tube sound. So the Patek does have a bit of an etched quality to me. The sound has just a bit more hard separation of notes/instruments/voices than many tube offerings.

The Patek SE is a good antidote to the lush, "tube sound:" that sonic quality when there is too little separation of the individual sounds. You get what I call "smearing." This is when the sound is TOO harmonically dense. It is a kind of muddy sound. Very full and quite beautiful when you are not listening analytically (most of the time), but occasionally too much so. Many people characterize mid-level tube amplification (especially those that use 300Bs) as having this harmonically rich, romantic sound. Put a good SS amp like the Patek in, though, and the sound seems a bit cleaner. Like moving from a sweet, syrupy soft drink to a very cold, clean glass of water. Depending on your point of view, the "coldness" of the SS amp may seem harsh and fatiguing -or- the tube amp may seem muddy and too dense. In a single-ended, class A tube amplifier, I believe this density is due to even-order harmonics.

The ideal situation would be to have the harmonic richness of the tube amp COMBINED with the clean, fast sound of the solid state amp. And to have it in a natural, unforced way. To have all of these qualities come from ONE amp, not a combination of tube preamp and solid state power amp.

I have always thought that my custom-made 300B achieved this. It has always had the detail but with a great deal of harmonics. The Jensen Copper/Paper in oil capacitors offered these things. But they did have an added layer of harmonic density. I considered this extra density a shortcoming. Others may not. In extensive comparisons, I knew I was not missing many details. All of the information was there and it was just as accurate. But there was a bit too much density to the sound. This made the amp seem slower than I wanted. I had the silver capacitors installed in the hope that I would speed things up a little and get a bit of a cleaner sound. The results have far exceeded my desires or expectations.

After having the Audio Note Silver/Mylar capacitors installed, I have noticed a significant increase in detail over both the Jensen Capacitor and the Patek SE. What seems to have happened is that the familiar detail and harmonic richness (for lack of a better term) remain, but now, all of the harmonics seem to ALSO contain information. This is a very important distinction between the Jensen and the Audio Note. What seemed like harmonic density in the Jensen has become harmonic information in the Audio Note. So that there is not only an added layer of harmonics but those harmonics now convey the music, rather than simply reinforce the "sound." I am rather surprised by this. I may be describing something as simple as increased detail, but it would not be enough to say that details are increased because of the *density* of the details.

Improvements in all areas as significant as changing from a low-grade 300B to the Takatsuki 300B. Perhaps EVEN MORE significant (Charles, I think you will understand the seriousness of a statement like this). Different from a component change, I think. Some component changes can result in lateral differences. This is an *overall* upgrade. There is no aspect of the sound or tone of my amplifier that the Audio Note capacitors have failed to improve. To me this is shocking.

The amp is more polite, but more aggressive. Faster, but smoother. The sound stage is larger but more focused. Each instrument is more highlighted and separated, but the sound is less "etched." There is a significant improvement in bass response. The highs are a bit ragged and bitey, but I expect that this is due to lack of break-in. This would be the sole shortcoming.

I must say, I am VERY satisfied. Each improvement in the sound of my amplifier comes as a surprise to me. I am continually knocked out by the improvements that are possible even when the sound I started with was so good.

tjkurita October 21, 2013 03:41

Tjkurita,
Keep us informed, I'm interested in reading your listening impressions of these special silver capacitors.

charles1dad October 20, 2013 11:01

Blackie installed the capacitors last night and delivered today. I drove 5 hrs. from his shop in the E. Village to my home in the country. Current state: Three hours TOTAL running time (due to my tight schedule, Blackie could not break in), one hour on Blackie's bench, two hours here in my home. I am unable to provide proper impressions at the moment. The iron is cold, the tubes are cold, the capacitors are just this side of newborn. I can't help but smile, though, because it sounds pretty damn good.

tjkurita October 20, 2013 03:35

System edited: Received AN Silver/Mylar coupling caps .22uF/600v. To replace Jensen Copper PIO. Really looking forward to having these installed.

tjkurita October 18, 2013 02:51

Thanks for the info Tympani! I have been listening to my system a good bit and I have found that, with experimentation with speaker placement, seat placement, and room treatments, my soundstage problems have been significantly mitigated. In addition, soundstage changes often according to the specific recordings I am listening to. While this is obvious, I was a bit slow on the uptake and did not realize that I was asking my system to do things that the recording would not allow! It's a new room, please forgive me!

Like you, I have also found that inverting phase can alleviate collapsed soundstage issues. My DAC has this capability and I use it often.

Again, thank you, and congratulations on your wonderful system.

tjkurita September 09, 2013 06:54

TJ, thanks for checking out my system. Yours looks phenomenal, a well-studied esoteric combination that I would think should be capable of outstanding soundstage. Have you tried any after-market fuses? I noticed a huge leap in realism moving from stock in each component. My favorites are the Synergistic fuses, and the very reasonably priced AMR's. Also curious if you have played with absolute phase switching (perhaps at the speaker inputs) on recordings you feel have a collapsed soundstage. In a phase-coherent setup as yours, I suspect you would be rewarded. I have found this the most valuable, and cheapest (free) tweak there is!

tympani September 07, 2013 19:32

Recently put in Sylvania chrome top 6SN7s from the 1950s in place of the Brimar CV1988. While nearly all accounts will indicate that the Brimar is a far superior tube, I find the Sylvania captivating. It has a sparkle in the high end that I like very much. By most standards, the Brimar is better. It has a smoother top end, warmer midrange, and a more even in frequency response. The Sylvania has a tipped up treble, strong, tight bass, and scooped midrange. This seems to give the illusion that it is faster and has better dynamics. For some reason, I like this for right now. When it is driving a tube like the Takatsuki 300B, there is no fatiguing harshness up top. This is in contrast to the JJ300b, which already has a slightly ragged top end, combined with the Syl, this gave a fatiguing sound. The TA tames the Syl's slightly "hi-fi" sound.

I must also note, however, that the Sylvania is the tube that I was using forever until recently. It is a familiar sound, like an old friend. You accept and love them in spite of, or maybe even because of, their flaws. Let's not forget the classics, people!

tjkurita September 01, 2013 20:34

Hi Charles. I plan on living with this sound for a little while and seeing what diffusion does in the future. From what I can gather, the thinner foam/plastic/polystyrene diffusors don't seem to do that much. The deeper skyline and QRD diffusors seem to be the more effective choice. Of course, the price is commensurate with effectiveness.

I upgraded to Tango from James brand transformers. I can't really speak very well to the change because it was so long ago. I have owned this amp for quite a long time! 8 years or so! I did the Tango upgrade nearly 5 years ago. So it is really hard to remember/judge accurately. I've been using my speakers for something like 6 years! I am quite proud that I found a sound I like and stuck with it. Not much of a revolving door of gear. Just upgrades to add refinement. And digital is always evolving, of course...

The sound is indeed very lifelike and organic. It has nice clarity, detail, and speed, but with a pretty big, robust sound. My speakers are not as ultra-hi-rez as my Sennheiser HD800 headphones. But I'm not sure I would want speakers as hi resolution as those headphones. Using the headphones I have some idea of how high bandwidth, dynamic, and musical my source and amp are. I have found that any sonic limitations I am hearing are probably on the speakers (placement, interaction with room, shortcomings of design/driver). Which isn't to say I am unhappy. Sometimes slightly less detail results in ease of listening. What the speakers do wonderfully is general immediacy, coherence of sound resulting in realism, and soundstage size and imaging. I think the speaker's largest shortcoming is the dynamic range.

tjkurita August 27, 2013 14:27

Hi Tjkurita,
Congratulations on your new listening room. It seems the speaker and listening seat placement fine tuning has paided off. The wall diffusors will likely work well in your room,let us know the outcome with them. You have excellent taste in music and it has to sound superb via your system.I imagine the sould is quite organic and life like.Your 300b amp is intriguing, what did the Tango output transformers improve/change?
Charles,

charles1dad August 27, 2013 13:49

Look forward to seeing the pics, Lapierre! Looking on the back of my Emm units, there is no Analog Level switch. It's OK, though, because I can't find much fault with the source.

At this point, I can honestly say that my system sounds as good as it ever has. It is truly satisfying to me. The soundstage problems I was having seemed to do with sitting in the null (ten feet from the speakers). I have only been in this room for about a week or two and it took that long to set it up. So I took pictures as soon as I thought I had reasonably good sound. Now that I have lived with it for a few days I have found it is ridiculously great to my ears. I am hoping that it can only get better as I get even more familiar with the room and treatments. I am thinking about diffusion in the future. Maybe even diffusion on all four walls in different places. My speakers are more than three feet from my back wall so the depth is there. They are about two feet from the side walls so that is less than ideal. But, again, the sound is very big and nice.

tjkurita August 26, 2013 21:58

Thanks Tjkurita. Still playing around with the placement of my system. Should be updating my thread with new pictures.

The high low filter should be on the back of the unit displayed as Analog Level.

SR powercell in my system displays more soundstage depth. Speakers are placed 18" from back wall. Instruments have more separation in the soundstage.

lapierre August 26, 2013 19:48

System edited: These are, in fact, NY15 3.5S transformers by Tango...

tjkurita August 26, 2013 07:50

Thanks Lapierre! Your system looks great, too! And I especially enjoyed reading your thread. A lot of good info on there regarding your components and the effect each change had on your overall sound. One question: Is this high switch on your CDSA, is it only found on the CDSA? Is there an equivalent thing on the DCC2 or CDSA? I can't see anything but maybe I am missing it.

Regarding the Synergistic Research... I noticed you mentioned that there is not much increase in width of the soundstage. I have a feeling that the constrained soundstage I am hearing is a combination of two things: Room and recording.

On certain recordings, Miles Davis "On the Corner," for example, which I am listening to right now, the soundstage is cavernous. Extending far beyond the very narrow sidewalls but still with precise imaging. On a recording like Coltrane at the Village Vanguard in '62, the soundstage is rather smaller. Of course, having been to the Vanguard, I know how small a space that is. And perhaps I am simply hearing the sound of the space where the recording was made.

A very small (1 inch) amount of toe-in on my speakers tightened up the image, and actually broadened the overall presentation of the system.

In addition, changing the listening position REALLY has a major effect. I have found a good spot about 9' away from the speakers that usually works. The null is still there at around 10' away from the speakers but, again, that small amount of toe in really alleviated it.

I am thinking of experimenting with a little more changes in speaker positioning. But right now I am really enjoying the sound I am getting.

tjkurita August 26, 2013 04:08

System looks great. Congrats on the new room.

15 x 9 is not too bad. I think it's a lot better than my previous 12 x 12 room.

I improved my soundstage and upper end details using Synergistic Research Powercell and power cords. You may want to start there and see where that leads you.

lapierre August 26, 2013 02:48

System edited: Added photos of my new room. It is a dedicated room, but very small. WAF is not an issue, but getting a large, open soundstage is. As it is set up now, the sound is robust and full with nice imaging even frequency response. The only issue I have is that the soundstage is a bit confined and there is a room null at the furthest usable point from the speakers.

tjkurita August 25, 2013 22:46

I `ve had various people ask my advice /opinion on these Takatsuki tubes over the past year. My only reservation in recommending them is the very high cost.You never know how someone will judge them in their own amp/system. A lot of money if you don`t find them special.On the other hand,that`s the chance we take,it`s our choice to make.I haven`t come across anyone so far who having heard them didn`t find them to sound stellar and worth the premium cost. Everytime I play my music I`m so happy with what these tubes provide,sheer joy and emotion.
Charles,

charles1dad July 26, 2013 06:08

Good info, Charles! It is hard to go with anything but the Takas for me, I think. When I first got them I was able to go through a relative who lives in Japan. So there were no extra costs in terms of import taxes or distributor add-ons. They ended up costing me $1400. Right now I am thinking of going through one of those services online that makes purchases in Japan on behalf of those living overseas. If I can find the right opportunity with the exchange rate I am hoping that the price difference from the RP will be a little easier to digest.

tjkurita July 26, 2013 04:08

The Sophia RP and the AVVT 32SL would be a good battle of upper tier 300b tubes.AVVT is very hard to find these days but both of them were an excellent fit with my Frankenstein MK II. A very good 300b for much less money than the Takatsuki is the EML XLS, very good sounding 300b in my amp.
Charles,

charles1dad July 26, 2013 01:52

Tjkurita,
The Sophia RP sound very well in my amplifier and I enjoyed them for 2 weeks(may not have been fully burned in). When the Takatsuki were 1900-2000 per pair the RP becomes more a value attraction. With the prices coming down the Tak is more viable. A pair of RP used would be a top quality spare pair to have around. The RP bested the WE reissue in my amplifier by a comfortable margin.
Charles,

charles1dad July 26, 2013 00:18