In my small dedicated listening room with vault ceilings this is the best system so far. Sonus Faber Guarneri Homage's which were some of the last pair to be brought into the US along with new Jadis JA 30 Mk2 Mono Blocks utilizing KT150's and Smooth Plate Telefunken tubes, a CAT SL1 Renaissance Black Path BPX with phono. The Linn LP12 Radikal D, Karousel/Kore is the front-end with a Lyra Kleos. Esoteric DV60 SACD player, Esoteric D-05 DAC, Alternate ss amp: Jeff Rowland model 8T modded by Jeff. Room tuning devices include the Real Traps Mondo Traps, Mini Traps and Shakti Hallograph's. Grand Prix Monaco amp stands. Audio Art SE-1 power cords with Furutech connectors.Zenwave power cord PL1 with Furutech NCF 50, Zenwave D2 Ultra ic's, Graceline 1.5 meter ic and Black Cat PC-1 Silverstar power cord for Rowland. Two REL T5i subs...running high level off the amp outputs and with Signal subwoofer cables and Supra pc's. Nessie Vinylcleaner. Finite Elemente Pagode. Finite Elemente Cerabase footers under Pagode
When you say the cabinet is very resonant, are you sure you aren't over driving the sub and hearing the driver break up? In addition to my B2 I also have a T2, during some movies when the sub was receiving a significant LFE signal, the sub would sound like it was rattling. After further analysis I determined that mass loading it from the top (with bags of beans etc) reduced the rattle but in reality I was overdriving the sub. I was just asking too much from the T2. When I substituted the B2 during these passages it just sailed right through.
I also have an Aurolex Sub Dude isolation platform for the T2. It also tightened up the T2's response and depth. I have not tried it under the B2. I'm curious to see how it differs between downward and forward firing designs. Maybe something too look into....
I agree with you, there is always something in the chain to tweak and analyze. It is fun to do but can really take away from the enjoyment. Have fun.
Thanks Jlind325is, I was considering upgrading the Speak-on cable as the stock unit is decidedly mediocre. Another upgrade would be some sort of vibration control applied to the top of the cabinet. The cabinet seems to be VERY resonant, which leads me to believe that it is contributing far too much to the picture. OTOH, the subwoofer is very good and as always, i am looking at all areas of my system that may constitute weakness. The one true thing that I have learned after all these years as an a'phile....there is ALWAYS something in the chain that constitutes the weak link..:0( The never ending story!
I would like to add that I recently added an upgraded Speak-on cable from Signal Cable to my Mc-275 Rel B2 combo. It was a very worth while investment. The sub appears to go an octave deeper and is much punchier. I have also upgraded the powercable on the sub with increased fidelity, but the upgraded Speak-on was a larger jump for roughly the same price. I recommend this to you guys.
Lapierre-Signal Cable should be able to make you a custom cable with the ground cable outside the common sheath, or perhaps each "conductor" seperate and only coming together at the Neutrik for use with your mono block setup.
Pierre, that makes sense now. The connection to the preamp for the ground wire was suggested to me also by the REL rep, although I decided to go a slightly different route ( suggested to me by the ARC tech ) I'm sure now that your connection scheme is good. Please post some thoughts once your system is back online.
Lapierre, I am not sure I get your connection scheme for your B2... The left connection to the left amp and the right connection to the right amp sounds good, BUT where are you connecting the ground cable? If the B2 has the same connecting scheme as the T5, there are three leads from the Neutrik connector...right, left and ground. Not just positive and negative as it would seem in your post. BTW, do post a picture of your new room in your system pics when it is completed. Sounds like it will be great.
Hi Lapierre, I enjoyed a long listening session last night. I was utilizing my ARC D70Mk 2 and had the REL dialed in to a 'T'. What is so evident is that this subwoofer mates well with the mains and is invisible in the mix. As you know, my room is slightly smaller than yours, although the fact that you have two identical lengths (12X12) is problematical, I suspect that the REL T5 will match up well to your room. The addition of bass trapping was huge in my room and I can certainly recommend this in your room as well. The REL fleshes out the bottom octave or so superbly, as an example, while listening to the Concord Jazz Direct to Disc LP of LA4-Just Friends, ( a GREAT recording BUT hard to find and my copy is very noisy..:0( ) the bass just powers through along with the bass drum. Most of the impact of both of these instruments is MIA without the REL in the system. IMO, this robs the impact of the music on an LP like "Just Friends" . Only other point I want to make about the REL is the hook-up scheme, with the ARC being a balanced design, the hook up is not obvious. You cannot connect the REL as per the instructions! If you are utilizing a balanced design,such as in my instance wherein the amps 4ohm tap is a ground, then the connection is : left connector to the 8ohm left amp output, right connector to the right 8ohm connector and the ground to the 4ohm tap( either left or right). Hope this helps.
Branislav, the T5 is like most subs in my experience, a little bit difficult to integrate. However, what I really like about REL subs is that you can connect them up to the output of the amp; which allows for a more precise and true sound of what the sats see, at least IMHO. The REL T5 is perfect for a small room, it's very fast and fairly accurate sounding. With my SF GH's, which are 'lighting' fast...sometimes these are compared to 'stats', the sub is subtle enough and IMO quick enough to keep up. It did take me about two(2) weeks of experimentation to get the blend perfect, BUT now the sub disappears into the mix completely. You cannot tell where the sub is placed and more importantly, you cannot hear the x-over. For a small room like ours, i can think of no better sub regardless of price. What mains are you running?
I'm glad you brought this sub to my attention. I have 2 rooms, the smaller one (barely bigger than your) is now occupied but I used to use it for audio with great results. I've been wondering about a possible use of a subwoofer in a small setting, but couldn't find any recommendation. All you see is big bad subwoofers that would overload the room. Can you tell where the bass is coming from? How difficult was it to integrate?
Hi Branislav, my room is very small. .measures 10' X 11'. However, it enjoys a vault ceiling and is a dedicated audio room. I have carpet over slab floors and the room is on the ground floor, so nobody below ( except the Termites!!;0) )
Lloyd, thanks for the suggestion....will be something to consider in 2012. Happy New Year, BTW. I was pleasantly surprised at how much better the T5 performs than a Sunfire that I had briefly in my system a few years back. The T5 is just amazing in how it can energize the room and bring so many instruments into focus, with a foundation that has to be heard to be believed. The GH's are now able to 'focus' like a microscope on the mids and the highs and everything is just "of a piece". I had a fellow a'phile over for a listening session last night and his jaw fell to the floor once I started the system up. I'm pretty happy right now.
Nice, Davey! Congrats! And i am not one bit surprised! Today's subs are vastly different than the ones of 12+ years ago. All the major designers know the expectations for blending, and continue to work on speed, dynamics, slam to match the incredible performance of speakers like your Gs.
And just in time for the holidays! Now...i hate to offer this...but i have to...
I bought an Auralex Gramma ($60)...a wood isolation platform with carpet on top and heavy duty acoustic foam underneath (instead of decoupling feet).
It is used often by rock bands when placing their drums kits on stages...to produce more consistent performance by isolating bass vibration from the floor.
I took my Velodyne (which was disturbing my neighors) and realized just how much bass is traveling from floor to wall and 'bleeding' up int mids/treble.
The setting without was volume 8...with the Gramma, i had to turn it up to 31!!! I have wood over concrete, but even so, the isolation was clearly beneficial. The bass is now even more defined and articulate all the way down...but the mids/treble was astonishingly more transparent, detailed!
i know...i know...why did i have to suggest this AFTER you dialed in the sub...well, just a suggestion for 2012! ;)
I have no doubt your sub is dialed in beauitfully...enjoy!
Fernando, I have lived with the T5 now for a few weeks and it is a real game changer! This sub is a MIGHTY mini. It took me quite awhile to get it to correctly blend with the ultra fast GH's, but now I am amazed at the punch and solidity that it brings to the bottom end. You really don't realize how much you are missing in the bottom end - foundation of music until you add a sub. Highly recommend the REL T5 for anyone with a small room and with smaller speakers.
DaveyF wrote: "Bigby,Obviously, I am a little biased towards the GH's..:0) I like the Cremona's as well, particularly the Cremona M's. However, in my room....which is pretty small, the GH's are much more of a piece than the original Cremona's when I had an opportunity to listen to both. I think I pretty much summed up my feelings of the GH's in my review under the A'gon review section. If you need more in the bottom end and have a bigger room; then I would look seriously at the Cremona's. OTOH, if you can budget for a sub as well, then I would still go with the GH's. IMHO, very few speakers can run with the GH's when set up correctly, including the Cremonas or for that matter even the Elipsa's!"
Hi DaveyF,
I agree with you, having also owned the G's for a number of years...and also owned/auditioned many SF speakers incl Amatis, STradivari, Cremona, Electa, Elipsa...the G is very, very special, and when you hear it well set up compared to Cremona, its refinement, fullness in the mids to upper bass, and compare side by side (imho), it is quite something. Quite something.
I prefer true magic in a certain area rather than excellence across a broader spectrum, but that's my personal preference.
Bigby,Obviously, I am a little biased towards the GH's..:0) I like the Cremona's as well, particularly the Cremona M's. However, in my room....which is pretty small, the GH's are much more of a piece than the original Cremona's when I had an opportunity to listen to both. I think I pretty much summed up my feelings of the GH's in my review under the A'gon review section. If you need more in the bottom end and have a bigger room; then I would look seriously at the Cremona's. OTOH, if you can budget for a sub as well, then I would still go with the GH's. IMHO, very few speakers can run with the GH's when set up correctly, including the Cremonas or for that matter even the Elipsa's!
I agree that the acoustical treatment is the most important part of the system. How do you like the Sonus Faber Guarnieri Homage? Im looking at the Sonus Faber Cremona.
Hi Deaf, like I said in the other thread, I have only heard the Peachtree Nova, not the idecco. The Nova left me very unimpressed. BTW, there is a review of your idecco in the current issue of Stereophile. FWIW, I think that there are a lot of products that are coming on the market now that are IMHO the equivalent to an audio Swiss Army knife; the examples that i have heard have all been mid-fi at best.
