Spirit,
It would seem the Hovland tube preamp should be fine unless there's some odd impedance mismatch. As far as the power amplifiers are concerned, is it possible to arrange a home audition? For perspective GSM18439 (Gary) drives the same speakers with his 8-9 watt 300b in a large and open space quite happily. Phil has certainly been very satisfied with his Audion Black Shadows for a long time. So it appears 60-70 atts isn't required, on the other hand they won't hurt anything either. Does the extra cost of these amplifiers represent a meaningful value or improvement compared to the 30 watt 211 tubed NAT or the Audion? An audition would settle this easily.
Regards,

charles1dad May 03, 2013 12:54

Charles, that sounds about right. I'm aiming for the Straingauge on the Salvation tt/Terminator arm being the end point for my analogue journey. This SET avenue needs to be an end point of sorts too. From what I can glean from the dealer, the NAT GM70s will have a little more drive than the Black Shadows, but it's likely to be a face off between these two.
At present I can't afford to go to the NAT Symmetrical preamp, and am hoping my current Hovland HP200 tube preamp will be a good match for the NAT or Audion. What do you think?
And then there is the Duelund VSF Black cap upgrade to the Def4s.
Phew! I need to lie down now.

spiritofmusic May 03, 2013 10:49

Hi Spirit,
I think you'll be just fine if you rely on your ears (which you seem to do).Listening to the NAT SET amplifier caused you to realize certain characteristics of your current amps . It's hard to match the purity and natural sound of SET with non-SET type amplifiers You're merely reacting to what you heard and that's good. All you need is an opportunity to hear the Audion and NAT amps within your system and simply trust your ears . I'll assume that is how you chose the Zu DEF IV and your other components. You certainly have the speakers that allow the advantages of SET to be exploited to maximum effect. You're in a very good position to put
the final touch into your well developed system, just listen. Either of the two amps under consideration will provide more than enough power for your DEF IV.Germanboxers is getting really excellent results with the 8 watt Frankenstein MK II, so you should have no power issues with your higher power contenders.
Regards,

charles1dad May 03, 2013 03:53

Charles, you've been kind enough to contribute to my thoughts on the Zu Def4s thread.
I really wish I hadn't heard those NAT SETs!!! I'm now so aware of grain, and limiting of transparency, my SS Hovland Radia power amp is imposing on my music.
My q is - what are the long term ramifications of finding the right SET amp for the long term listening experience?
This will be a real paradigm change, and if I go down this path, am a little anxious actually.
My choice is likely to come down to NAT SE2SE GM70's v Audion Black Shadows.

spiritofmusic May 02, 2013 23:16

You will have to chat with Robert about that. I have no clue. I depends on what stand type you chose. I think they are close to being available. An audio buddy just ordered a set of new monitor stands and they are shipping this week...

agear April 29, 2013 00:07

Andrew,
I haven`t ordered them(didn`t know they were available yet).Given my satisfaction with Star Sound productucts,the stands will be seriously considered. What is their cost?

charles1dad April 28, 2013 11:11

Charles, when are you expecting your stands from Robert?

agear April 27, 2013 21:30

Palasr,
Thanks for your input.One thing I can say for sure, the TE aren`t anemic sounding in my home.They are very dynamic,lively and big in scale and overall presentation.The new Star Sound speaker stand could be an improved option(they could very possibably be better).I prefer a wide base for these tall speakers.
Regards,

charles1dad April 26, 2013 13:32

I agree with Chayro; my Total Eclipses sound better without the outriggers, and I have tried several different spike styles in them, as well as different affixing hardware (stainless steel hex bolts and washers are far superior to the supplied steel Allen bolts which are a pain). While I appreciate the added stability, the outriggers make the speakers slightly anemic sounding in my application. I am on hardwood over double thickness T&G 3/4" plywood.

palasr April 26, 2013 12:04

Chayro,
I do like the larger footprint and stability of the Coincident outrigger feet.

charles1dad April 26, 2013 01:57

Hi Charles,

I'm actually using all the tubes that came with the amp at this time. The 300B's are EH's. I have NOS replacement Tung-Sol 6BX7GT, Sylvania 6SN7, and CV 378, along with the JJ 300B's.

I'm thinking of seeing how it sounds with new tubes, but I'm letting all the new caps and resistors break in for a while first. Upgrading the output tubes is something to look forward to later, though. I'm loving this little old amp.

Regards,
Dan

islandmandan April 26, 2013 01:50

Hi Gary,
The two Takatsuki versions sound identical to me (superb) the only difference is cosmetically with the new black and yellow base.Amtrans really came through with their warranty coverage for these expensive tubes.
Regards,

charles1dad April 26, 2013 01:34

Dan,
The frequent goosebumps moments you alude to is what got me hooked on 300b SET amplifiers. The beauty of the circuit ot these amps is their simplicity, that's why you really hear the true character of your output tube, it's all out in the open to hear.If you like your SET with the JJtubes, you're off to a good start.
Regards,

charles1dad April 26, 2013 01:27

Charles: any difference between the new vs old Takatsukis?

gsm18439 April 26, 2013 01:13

I didn't read every post, but I noticed you were considering the Star stands. When I had my Partial Eclipses, I found they sounded better with the spikes from the outriggers screwed directly into the cabinet rather than using the outriggers, which IMO, allowed a bit of play. I realize that the footers' effect on the sound is totally room dependant, but I only mention it as you might want to try this free solution before spending extra money.

chayro April 26, 2013 00:58

Hi Charles,

I'm glad to hear the new tubes are working so well for you. Whether they would be a waste of resources for my modest SET 300B is in question. I will say, though, ever since putting it in, I haven'e felt the need or desire to go back to my VAC.

I have been truly amazed by this amp, no matter what music I play. I've also experienced more goose-bumps with this amp than any I've ever had. It must be doing something right. Maybe better tubes might be worth it, after all. Only 9Wpc, such a surprise.

Best regards,
Dan

islandmandan April 25, 2013 23:47

I got my new pair of Takatsuki-TA300bs and have to say they are the best sounding tube in my amplifier. The AVVT is close and in some aspects equals the Japanese 300b. The essential differences are that the Takatsuki reveals more humanity and soul or the heart of the music.The AVVT doesn't lack these qualities they're just less when directly compared. Dynamics, transparency, clarity etc. They are oh so close. TheAVVT has a strong authoritative presentation with exceptional control and extension. It does have an organic feel. Relative to the Takatsuki it is less so(but not absent), perhaps a tad stiffer (but only in direct comparison).There's more fluidity, ease, ebb and flow and at least for me, more emotion is felt with the Japanese tube.

AVVT is a true top tier tube and no doubt, what differences I note could vary with the amplifier used and certainty other ears. It's close in performance for much less money.The Takstsuki just connects with me more deeply then any other tube I've ever heard.I wish they were more affordable so more 300b amp owners could take advantage.
Regards,

charles1dad April 25, 2013 19:34

Hi Brf,
I received the EMLs 2 days ago but haven`t tried them yet.I would guess they`re similar although not identical to the AVVT given a partial shared lineage.I`ll find it hard to remove the AVVTs out of the amplifier.They sound so good.
Regards,

charles1dad April 12, 2013 13:36

Hi Charles, I am glad you are enjoying the AVVT tubes, although I must admit, I am not surprised. Did you ever get the EML 300B XLS that were exchanged for the meshplates?

brf April 12, 2013 12:49

Breaking in the AVVT SL 32b tubes has been very enjoyable, this is a music lover's tube, such a natural sound, just devoid of hifi artificiality. Looking forward to the new Takatsuki and comparisons, theTakatsuki has been the best in my system so far.But this AVVT will be a worthy competitor without question. Last night I listened to
1) "Soul Brothers/Soul Meeting" this is Ray Charles and Milt Jackson, very bluesy jazz.
2)" Doin' Alright" Dexter Gordon and also Freddie Hubbard. Straight ahead Bop and Ballads.
3)"You Go to My Head" Doug Raney guitar.An under appreciated but beautiful player.

4)"The Hawk relaxes" Coleman Hawkins and also Kenny Burrell.

charles1dad April 11, 2013 19:49

The AVVT 32B SL has a life expectancy of 40,000 hours according to Jac Van de Walle of JAC Music. This is a fabulous sounding tube. One of my Takatsukis developed a leak.Takatsui decided to send me a new pair under warranty replacement.I look forward to comparing these excellent examples of 300b tubes.

charles1dad April 08, 2013 15:51

I have put the AVVT 32b tubes in my amp today.The last batch was made in 2001 by the extraordinaryly talented Alesa Vaic. well, this is just a splendid 300b tube, it`s obvious straight out of the box.This was also true of the Takatsuki-TA and the EML mesh plate. These tubes have one purpose and that is to bring beautiful,involving and natural music into your home.Unfortunately I can`t use the EML mesh any longer but what a special tube it is.The AVVT is just as special but with its own presentation.

My reference is the Takatsuki and it`s too early for any comparisons.I can say this much,The AVVT won`t be embarressed by it or any other tube.One thing is patently clear, Alesa Vaic knew what he was doing.I`m going to put 100 hours on this tube and then contrast the differences with the Takatsuki.
Regards,

charles1dad April 05, 2013 01:14

Hi Brett,
A high percentage of 300b SET are auto bias and tube rectified, it must be for a good reason.many knowledgeable people recommend the EML tubes for both 45 and 2A3 amplifiers, solid plate and mesh plate versions. Brett I know you're enjoying wonderful sounding music with your system.

I received my High Fidelity Cable -CT1 Ultimate digital today.I can't say I throughly understand the magnetic conduction cocept of this cable but the sound of it is remarkable. As natural and real as can be. They really reproduce the true reasonance and nuances of instruments convincingly. Hope to get my AVVT and EML tubes next week.
Regards,

charles1dad March 28, 2013 22:21

Charles,
I also chose auto-bias amplifiers. (Wavelength, to other readers) I very much enjoy reading of your refinements to your system. You are assembling a very nice stable (harem) of 300B tubes! My SRP (for other readers) I am happy with. I am looking forward to your post of the EML XLS.
I have my 45 (Wavelength) amps to consider for power tube upgrade. EML Globe limited edition when I pull the wallet trigger.

isochronism March 28, 2013 20:33

Brf,
I don`t know what the bias is set at.I have a local tech who`s very competent and communicates directly with Israel.He trusts and is satisfied with this technician`s level of skill/experience.
Regards,

charles1dad March 26, 2013 14:14