hi Gary and SC53, if you speak to Ed Meitner he'll tell you how dsd is better than analog.....but he doesn't listen to the Rockport....and he makes his living selling dsd (sacd).....so possibly i'm more un-biased (in some ways).

my opinion is that the Meitner does come closer to good analog (vinyl) performance than any previous digital....but there is still a big gap and in certain ways (immediacey, speed, dynamics, detail and energy) vinyl is quite a bit better. sacd thru the Meitner has dramatically improved on the best previous digital in areas of soundstage and naturalness.

the Meitner emmlabs DAC6 and modified Philips SACD 1000 use a propriatary optical interface to take the raw data from the SACD 1000 to the DAC6. there are 3 optical cables (2 clock---in and out....and one data). these cables are said to eliminate jitter and are used in the pro audio world. the SACD 1000 outputs pcm (redbook) to the DAC6 and the DAC6 then upconverts it to dsd. dsd (from sacd) is output directly to the DAC6 and converted to analog. the DAC6 controls the data clock in the transport to eliminate jitter. other sacd systems use a firewire interface that has inherent jitter problems.

as far as redbook performance.....the Meitner pair is on par with the 24-bit Linn CD-12 that it replaced (which is the best redbook performance i have heard) and the sacd performance is on a higher level than any other sacd player i have heard by a good margin.

SC53, the Marantz SA-1 is still an excellent performer and for cd still as good as most $3k to $4k cdps.....and on sacd in the ballpark of all but the Meitner.....so don't think you are being passed by.....you have a great digital performer.

Gary, i agree that the Norah Jones cd is actually fairly close to the Lp......i'm not sure how this recording was mastered.....but if it was digitally mastered that would explain why the Lp is not more better than the cd. i have found that digitally mastered Lps are only a little better than cds......the Lp can't tell you about info that was never there to begin with.

mikelavigne March 27, 2003 05:02

Mike, I noticed when you put your Marantz and CD12 up for sale and wondered what on earth you had found that bettered them. I have the Marantz and think it is fabulous for regular CDs; I don't listen to many SACDs. Forgive my ignorance, but how does the Meitner work? Is the Phillips transport sending SACD to be decoded by the Meitner? What does the Meitner do to redbook CD data? I note that you saved a bundle by selling the Marantz and Linn to go with your current setup. I have always loved that Linn player! I wish I could afford it, even used.

sc53 March 26, 2003 21:35

Dear Mike

Thanks for the comments on ed meitner. I think I will try to see if we can interest him in comming out. Unfortunately none of us has a serius, though there a few with some pretty reasonable vinyl setups. Does the meitner approach the vinyl on a regular base? Is this for sacd or for red books too? I have had a few cds which come close (on my much more modest system). I was surprised that the norah jones cd (lathed and with walker vivid) sounded surpisingly close to the 200 gm classic lp I borrowed from a friend. The difference was not enough to my ears (or two of my well hearing friends) to justify the extra bucks or the potential harrassment from my wife for owning two copies.

Gary

gajgmusic March 26, 2003 19:41

Glx9, small world, isn't it. i e-mailed you my phone number.....call anytime.

my system isn't live music.....although i sometimes prefer it to what i hear live. recordings can be more satisfying than the inconsistencies of live music.

in any case, we'll have some fun.

mikelavigne March 26, 2003 03:55

Mike,i'm in Seattle too ^^. If you be so kind, i'd like to stop by and earwitness live music sometime. thanks

glx9 March 26, 2003 00:32

Glx9, thanks. i moved on from the Levinson/Wilson path mostly because i had gone down that road all the way and i was looking for a simpler approach. this is not about good/bad......just a different path. i found that by eliminating complications from the signal path i got closer to the music and more satisfaction. understand please that i enjoyed every minute of my Levinson/Wilson experience, it was always satisfying.....but i have gone on.

yes, i believe that my current system is much better than my previous system, much closer to 'real' music. the $$$'s invested are not much different (other than the Rockport). but some people might prefer my Levinson #32, #33 and the Wilson WP6's to my present system.

my source philosophy has not changed from the beginning; i want neutrality and resolution in my sources so my preamp/amp/speakers can be neutral and natural. if your sources are 'colored' then the rest of your system must become some sort of equalizer......system balance is then a mostly impossible challenge.

Gary, thanks. i sold the Linn and the Marantz about 2 weeks after getting the Meitner.....their new owners are enjoying them.

i have spoken to Ed Meitner on the phone.....he is a great guy.....if you could get him to one of your meetings you would really enjoy him. i must admit to not completely agreeing with Ed regarding sacd verses vinyl......i think vinyl is still way better.....he disagrees. what Ed says regarding PCM (cd or dvd-a) and other sacd approaches is very interesting.

mikelavigne March 23, 2003 15:35

Mike

Continues to sound like an amazing system. I live in calgary where meitner is based and we have given thought to trying to get him out to one of our small audio club events, but don't know whether he would be interested. What did you do with the linn and the marantz?

Gary

gajgmusic March 23, 2003 05:51

i love your system. Although i've never gone though analog path. This is by far one of the most high-end system i've ever seen. i bet you must get as close as 80%-90% to live music. very nice. One more thing, may I ask why did you give up wilson/levinson path. Is this setup sound better than your old setup?. I also post my system under goldmund29/maxx and i'd love to hear your comment on my system also thanks!!

glx9 March 23, 2003 05:07

Eric, the Meitner website is www.emmlabs.com

some additional info on new product is on the Positive Feedback website here;

http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue5/sacdupdate.htm

the DAC6 is $8995 list price currently.

the Grand Ceramique is one of the very best speakers, Congrats....and if you are ever in the Seattle area you are also most welcome.

mikelavigne March 23, 2003 05:07

Mike I checked the manufacter list here the link for meitner
is not active. What is their website. How much is their DAC?
ps. My partner has the KHARMA GRAND CERAMIQUES If your ever in Baltimore let us know.

ericp March 23, 2003 04:41

let me check.....the Rockport appears to feeling just fine and happy just where it is.... but it sends it's greetings.

Tim, you'll love the Meitner. i may end up with a 2-channel Meitner in my 2-channel room and the DAC6 in the HT room......i want to hear DSOTM in SACD multi-channel thru the DAC6.

cheers.

mikelavigne March 22, 2003 18:31

If your looking for a place to let the Rockport 'rest' I am sure I could help you out ;) in the mean time I am looking forward to taking delivery of my meitner as well, though I am getting the 2 channel unit. Happy listening!

tireguy March 22, 2003 18:18

System edited: my update is replacement of my 24-bit Linn CD-12 and my Marantz SA-1 with the new Meitner emmlabs DAC6 and modified Philips SACD 1000. the Meitner combo is very, very close to the Linn on redbook cd and way better than anything i have heard on sacd. i am now listening to much more digital than i was.

mikelavigne March 22, 2003 16:05

Brulee, it is good to have company in my affliction.

i think being obsessive is simply finding all the enjoyment one can find from something.....to keep going down a path as long as it leads to continued discovery.....whether that discovery is musical or community....and hopefully both.

and Siriusly, in my case becoming an audio obsessive actually improved my life balance......you know, the kids leave.....all of a sudden you have time.....and all your friends are work connected....you need your own hobby or thing that you can get caught up in.....you have a love of music.....it either fits or it doesn't......i don't get involved with anything in this hobby that isn't satisfying or fun.....it is a stress reliever and pleasure creator.

in my case my job hours and commitment eliminate many other hobbies that might have been considerations. your spouse basically knows where you are all the time and likes it enough to support it.....i'm happy, she's happy....who needs/wants a cure?

anyway, that's my story and i'm sticking to it.

mikelavigne January 27, 2003 14:20

I admire your your balanced life. Yes, you are obsessive. I gotta felling we have a lot in common. I understand we both may need help. Help in finding an even more balanced life. Is being obsessive some sort of disease? if it is,please give me the cure. I am very Sirius.

brulee January 27, 2003 07:26

thanks Brulee, you are correct.....i don't get out much.....where would i go?

it can become a problem when all you want to do is play records......and more records.....and talk about audio.....and listen to new gear.....and meet with my audio friends....

what? you think i'm obsessive.....you only THINK i'm obsessive?

there must be a benefit to a balanced life......but at the moment i can't think of one......maybe when they say a balanced life they mean using balanced cables......i can do that.

mikelavigne January 26, 2003 20:09

Hi Mikelavigne, I have always enjoyed your posts because of your knowledge and mild manner. After seeing your system I can see why you have such great knowledge. You know the sound of music. I imagine you don't leave your listening room much. Congratulations on one of the better systems I have seen on Audiogon. Very thoughtful of you to give Jonathan some of the credit. I am sure you will agree, he can be very helpful. Wonderful system, wish I lived near by. But maybe it best I don't hear a system like yours. I might not be able to go back and listen to mine.

brulee January 25, 2003 22:54

Rwd, i have since added the vdH Colibri XWG Mytlewood to my cartridge stable.

the Colibri XCP is the clear winner so far.....it is the most explosive and detailed cartridge i have heard.....and still totally natural. the XWG Mytlewood is also very good but trades the ultimate explosiveness for slightly more ease and smoothness. the Insider Gold and Koetsu RSP II are still excellent cartridges but don't do it for me like the Colibri's. neither of the Colibri's are fully broken in yet and i am suppose to send them back for a tune-up after 300 hours (i have not yet decieded if i will let either one out of my sight).

the Colibri's are somewhat fragile and may not work in every system.....they have a very short canteliver and need a good amount of vta flexibility to get right.....but what they do has become essential to my mental health.

mikelavigne January 25, 2003 16:18

Mike, of the 3 cartridges you are using....which one gets the mosrt use??

rwd January 25, 2003 15:58

hi Robert, you are absolutely right. the one limitation i have is size of my room. my room has excellent dimentional ratios and the height of the room (11"), stepped ceiling and bay window really help. the 10 1/2 foot tall bookcases behind my listening position also help. the room is tweaked and has a great "feel".....music just sounds right with the correct degree of natural balance.

one note; the Kharma Exquisite 1D speakers do make the room 'look' more narrow than it actually is. the Exquisites are 16 inches wide and 53 inches tall (and 565 pounds heavy) but appear to be smaller so they make the room 'look' smaller. when you are in the room you get a feel for the real scale of the speakers.

but at the end of the day there are limitations to the soundstage and the feeling of openness and air due to the 12 foot width......so i am in negotiations with my very supportive wife to either build a separate, dedicated larger room, or find a home with a larger suitable room......stay tuned for the result.

my system in total is still the most satisfying music reproduction system i have yet heard but there IS room for improvement.

mikelavigne January 25, 2003 14:00

The gear is great. Have you thought about a better bigger room. I think it would allow the system to breath. That much expensive gear really deserves a larger room. Those speakers would throw a huge walk into soundstage if they were spread apart a good bit more than your room will allow. I have heard many systems that the room hindered there true perfomance.

robertkelly January 24, 2003 18:58

Arooj, i think you give me way too much credit. i certainly intend to be clear and humble.....but i'm sure not all would consider me so. in addition, even though i have expensive gear, that doesn't mean i posses any particular listening skills. so my opinions hopefully will be considered as just personal opinions based on personal experiences and nothing unique or particularly profound. in any case, i appreciate your kind words.....and.....let the chips fall where they may....no one made me post this system.

i totally agree on the Glacial moves.....the wife will see to that for sure. .^)

it would be interesting to compare vinyl on the Sirius III to mastertapes.....i would assume the mastertapes would sound better.....but tape deteriorization could tilt the table in favor of the vinyl. also, how would a person actually come to own a reasonable collection of quality master tapes? enough to justify that direction.

mikelavigne November 08, 2002 06:58

Mike, this is an AMAZING system. You're probably one of only a handful of people in the world who can explain your system philosophy in a manner everyone can understand without a hint of pretension. I hope to drop by sometime next year (maybe around the S'phile show in Frisco).

It will be very interesting to see the future evolution of your gear; I'd expect rather glacial moves from now on.

You're now in the enviable position of only having to worry about software - can you imagine what original mastertapes (like, maybe on the Nagra system) would sound like?

arooj November 07, 2002 18:41

Well Mike, there are people who have sold their souls for a lot less! Enjoy!

fatparrot November 06, 2002 20:04

Judit, there is a slight difference in sound with and without my tall chair.....but not so much 'good and bad' just slightly different....when it comes to extended, singular, listening.....comfort is definitely king!

Slipknot, thanks for your comment.....i think i got lucky on a few choices that openned my eyes to some concepts i had been previously ignoring.....all of a sudden it all made sense.

Fatparrot, basically it sounds un#@%*$#&believeable! if i had to sell my soul for this.....well.....hell probably ain't that bad anyway.

mikelavigne November 06, 2002 07:00