Description

Speakers are Focal Grande Utopia EM in black finish

Analog music sources, Technics SP10 MK3  with two Kuzma 4 Point 14" arms.  Koetsu Blue Lace on one and Air Tight Opus One in the other.   Studer A820 half track tape machine with three sets of cards, each rebuilt by Studer electronics experts so I can compare upgrade performance.

Digital music source is Aurender W20 Special Edition into Soulution 760 LEEDH.  THe best input for music so far is Purist new USB cable and AES/EBU close second place.

Soulution 725 preamp, Soulution 755 phono stage Soulution 760 LEEDH and Soulution 701 mono block amps for electronics.  See image posted Nov 18, 2022 to see how it looks.

Cable is 100% top tier Purist Audio design.  All latest 35th Anniversary,  all ten AC cords are the new Purist 35th Anniversary AC.

My space is 18 X 31 and acoustically treated with RPG panels, tube traps and fiberglass acoustic treatment over triple reinforced walls and ceiling. The floor is lamination beams over steel plates to concrete pier and beam.  Two sheets of 5/8 epoxy lamination sheets make up the floor with two inches of concrete topped with India multi color slate.

Whisper Wall rail system and fine textured acoustic cloth covers the work, making  everything appear as a normal room of painted sheet rock or decorative cloth covering.

The room acoustics were conceived by RBDG and the entire space was torn out to bare dirt under the foundation and bare studs in the walls.  The combo of all new electrical and acoustical treatment resulting in best sound I’ve ever had.
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Room Details

Dimensions: 31’ × 18’  X large
Ceiling: 12’


Components Toggle details

    • My Photography http://www.albertporterphoto.com
    Commercial + Advertising Photography, Dallas, TX.
    • Focal Grande Utopia EM
    The best offering from Focal, shown with Stillpoints Ultra 5. Ultra 5 was an amazing upgrade for the speakers !
    • RPG Acoustics QRD 734 (variation)
    On front wall, now obscured by acoustically transparent cloth, is floor to ceiling RPG (similar to QRD® 734) in foam, so it's partially absorptive.
    • Studer Studer A820
    Found a near mint A820 at a production studio in Illinois.  I was so excited about it's condition I had it driven here in the back of an SUV, covered with moving blankets.

    Head block sent to John French and all cards at Soren Wittrup who worked for Studer.  This is the machine I spent more than a decade searching for.
    • Technics SP10 MK3 Rosewood with Stillpoints Ultra 5
    Technics SP10 MK3 Panzerholz + Rosewood shown with Stillpoints Ultra 5
    • Technics SP10 MK3 Panzerholz + Ebony
    Technics SP10 MK3 Panzerholz with African Ebony lumber (no Veneer). This is the original design by John Semrad and myself, copied to death now.
    • TTM Stainless Mat and Oil Damp Weight
    Japan, TTM Stainless mat (6.61 pounds) plus TTM oil filled record weight.
    • TTM record stabilizer TTM three piece set
    Very hard to find, grateful I was able to purchase this last week.  Three piece TTM record stabilizer replaces my previous single piece unit.
    • Air Tight Opus
    Air Tight top of the line phono cartridge
    • Mutech Hayabusa
    Excellent MC cartridge, retail about $4500.00
    • Koetsu Blue Lace Platinum
    Top tier stone body Koetsu, perfect alternate to Air Tight Opus One
    • Soulution 725 preamp
    725, Soulution best preamp, shown in system
    • Soulution 755 phono
    Soulution best phono stage, unbelievable amount of adjustment for cartridge including channel balance to 1 DB
    • Soulution Soulution 760 LEEDH
    Soulution top tier DAC, really pleased with performance of this DAC.  

    I still prefer analog but many recordings that were digital to begin with (and vinyl cut from CD master) are better on Soulution than on turntable.
    • Soulution 701 Mono Block Amplifiers
    Soulution top tier 2KW solid state amps from Switzerland
    • ORB-DF03 USA version DF03
    Excellent LP flattener, simple to use and so far perfect result
    • Aurender W20 Special Edition
    Aurender music server, model W20 SE with 16TB solid state storage on board.
    • Vibraplane 2212-01
    Under my Technics MK3,  powered by Silentaire DR-150
    • Degritter MK2 Ultrasonic LP cleaning machine
    From Estonia, very powerful ultrasonic LP cleaning machine.  The MK2 version is better than the original which was already the best I’ve heard
    • Degritter and ORB LP flattner Degritter and ORB LP flattner
    View of two important pieces to maintain LP collection
    • Milbank Transocket three phase 750 amp
    750 amp meter base. Pass through design, three phase power is a huge benefit in conjunction with our dedicated transformer.
    • Porter Port Cryo outlets 20 Amp
    14 of these in my system, each to a dedicated breaker in copper based electrical box
    • Furutech NCF Booster
    New NCF Booster added to majority of AC cords in system.  Easy to see against light colored wall, arrow points to NCF Booster to my (previous) owned Allnic M-5000 amp.
    • Purist Audio Design Focal EM Supply cable
    New four conductor cord, replaces stock Focal supply cord from EM drive box to back of speaker. Amazing upgrade
    • Purist Audio Design 35th Anniversary XLR (4 total)
    (1) Soulution 755 phono to Soulution 725 preamp
    (1) Soulution 725 preamp to Soulution 701 mono blocks
    (1) Soulution 760 LEEDH DAC to Soulution 725 preamp
    (1) Studer A820 to Soulution 725 preamp
    • Purist Audio Design 35th Anniversary Bi-Wire
    1.5 meter Bi-Wire, Soulution 701 mono blocks to Focal Grande EM
    • Purist Audio Design 35th Anniversary AC Cables
    New STUNNING cable from Purist Audio, silver and seven stage network box.  This cable brought so much dynamics, resolution and transparency to my system it qualifies as a main component.
    • Leica Disto D2
    Super laser measuring tool. Indispensable for setting distance and alignment of your speakers

Comments 4737

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Owner
I just ordered the new Soulution 727 preamp, anyone in the market for my like new, in warranty  Soulution 725 please contact me.

albertporter

Owner
Added image of new Degritter MK2 which I received last week.  It’s an improvement over the original model which was excellent.

albertporter

Owner
Bill,

With all those positive comments I'm going to have a hard time living up to the standard.  

The guys that listened with us brought up your name several times, you were a big hit and your knowledge about the recording industry was remarkable.

I agree with your comments on performance of Air Tight Opus One versus Koetsu Blue Lace.  Both are beautiful performers but the Air Tight is more faithful to the music.  Still, nothing like Koetsu warmth and beauty to sweep  you away.

If you travel this way again you must meet Dana, he is part of  the group but was not available the night you were here.   He is a brilliant lawyer and music lover, has a custom built horn system plus two or three turntables and tape.

albertporter

Owner
Normally tonight is the dedicated music night for our group, but weather has not been cooperative.

How many people are you thinking?  I’m all for getting together but I don’t have unlimited space.


albertporter

Owner
Just updated with a different (old) image of Tuesday night music group, I need to set up and take a new image  since there are so many new additions.

Updated all Purist Audio Design to 35th Anniversary!

I’ve had these in my system since last year but could not disclose since they were not released.   Now available and an amazing upgrade as Purist always manages to do.

Also removed Bricasti DAC and listed Soulution 760 LEEDH along with image of same.   I need to add Furutech outlets since they are just about everywhere in the system.

albertporter

Owner
A few hour ago I received the new Kuzma 4 Point 14" with sapphire-ruby bearings.  Currently burning in with a modified interconnect cable thart routes my CD player signal through the tonearm wire.  This would take forever with the .5MV cartridge and put unnecessary wear just for break in.

Probably  200 hours or more since it’s silver wire,  then mount the Air Tight Opus One cartridge and back in prime position on the turntable.

I have another Kuzma 4 Point 14" in the second tonearm position with standard bearings.  I hope within the next month or so to determine if the bearings are an audible improvement or just a long term reliability upgrade.

albertporter

Owner
The new Soulution 760 LEEDH is fully broken in now and it’s the first time in my long history in high end audio that I have actually ENJOYED digital.  The Soulution 760 is way beyond just acceptable,  it actually exceeds some of my LPs (same album) and I have a top flight LP playback system.

For me the main advantage of a DAC was access to music not available on LP.  Now if an artist has an album I want, I download or purchase the CD and enjoy it rather than waiting for a release that may never happen.

My only regret is having had to wait so many years for digital that sounds right. I've had a dozen DACs and although some were "good" they constantly reminded me of why I preferred listening to LPs or tape. 

Much credit must also go to new Aurender W20SE and it’s matching Conductor app.  The Soulution could not perform at this level without best files and the Critical Listening Mode Aurender now offers.

I will be selling the Purist Audio Design AES/EBU and also the Purist SPDIF/BNC.    The Purist Diamond USB is still the winner with the Aurender + Soulution just as it was with the Aurender + Bricasti M1SE MDX.

albertporter

Owner
Soulution 760 LEEDH arrived yesterday about 3:00 PM, I got it in place and have been running signal through it for a day now. Listening to Paper Airplane and Alison Krauss is sounding mighty good.

I also have newest Purist AES/EBU on order to test it against their best USB, which was preferred cable with my Bricasti M1SE MDX.

albertporter

Owner
When I made this change it was strange to not have tubes, then as the Soulution got more hours on it I fell in love with the tight deep bass, impossibly low distortion and dead quiet signal to noise.  I guess my goal to have both tube and solid state was dissolved, although I was very close to having all VAC system.

This mess with Russia had not occurred, so I'm lucky to have made the decision when I did.  My favorite power tubes are Russian, meaning harder to find and horribly expensive.

Hope you come and listen, comments welcome as to where you think my system landed.  Just let me know, we will make a spot for you !

albertporter

Owner
nrchy,

I myself would not have believed it either :-).

I began with solid state when I built my first stereo system many years ago.   It was not until Counterpoint Electronics stunned me with the SA9 and SA11 somewhere in early 1980s that I owned my first tube gear.

After Counterpoint there were lots of tube product in my system,  Audio Research, Wolcott, Atma-Sphere, Air Tight, Tube Research, Viva, VTL, Aesthetix and Allnic  to name but a few.  I honestly never thought I would own solid state again.

I am no longer distributor for Allnic, but when I was, I wanted solid state to offer to customers as an alternative.  After listening to Soulution 7 series it was 1984 all over again, time to flip the switch the other way. 

What ultimately drove me to Soulution was the beauty and weight of the music,  which is much like the best part of tubes.  That coupled with unbelievable bandwidth and signal to noise in a presentation that revealed more of the music than I have ever experienced I was hooked.  

The magic of tubes did not go away, it was just replaced by Swiss technology that does so many things perfect,  I was happy to make the change.

albertporter

Owner
Thank you !

albertporter

Owner
Pulled two old images.

Added new photo of LPs and tape which includes Soulution 755 and 725.  Nice view of  includes A820.

albertporter

Owner
stgrim,

Thanks for dropping in to my system, always good to read comments from others.

I owned Aesthetix when you could still find NOS Telefunken and not at super high prices.  I contributed to several threads at Audiogon about tube tests in Aesthetix and what my results were.

I did photography for Aesthetix as well as several other high end pieces and was happy with Aesthetix IO and Callisto including the revised models referred to  as partial eclipse and full eclipse.

During that time I auditioned ARC, Allnic, Einstein, Upsilon and Messenger preamps and phono stages.   I bought and used Allnic for many years and was happy with it's sound. I was Allnic distributor until just recently and that caused me to evaluate all my gear again.

It came down to VAC and Soulution and if I had the money I would have bought both and done a shoot out.  As it is, I'm friends with Soulution importer and I took his word at what Soulution was capable of.   I've had it in my system for about three months but the 755 phono was back ordered and I just received mine last Friday.

All the guys in my group are tube guys, just like me.  Last Tuesday with only a few hours on it the Soulution I got almost 100% agreement that I had reached a new threshold in performance.   I did not expect solid state would ever be able to do what this achieved and I'm now considering the 760 DAC with LEEDH.

i don’t know where you live, but if travel ever brings you my way you are welcome to listen with me and our group and see what you think.

albertporter

Owner
Took a new photo showing room and amps, the previous image was very old.

Break in is going well, new gear is spectacular with master tapes.

albertporter

Owner
I owned Aesthetix for a long time, from basic to signature to Full Eclipse.  It's hard to get quiet enough 12AX7 tubes, especially if you want NOS like Telefuken.

I don't know if Soulution will stand alone or I'll add tubes.  Its so new it's still changing every few days of break in.

albertporter

Owner
Thanks Mike, I may add a tube preamp at some point but first going to try all Soulution.

Seems the Swiss solid state designs are winning hearts, I see tube guys going with darTZeel, Soulution, Nagra and CH Precision.

albertporter

Owner
Radical edit on my system, removed all Allnic now that I am no longer associated with them and VERY happy to be listening to Soulution from Switzerland.

Never thought I would go solid  state but the rep is a 30 year plus friend and talked me into taking a chance.   All I can say is solid state has moved light years since I last owned in in early 1980s when I switched to tubes.

albertporter

Owner
Anthony,

You can reach me direct at [email protected]

I hope to open up again in April when more folks have received their Covid vaccinations.

albertporter

Owner
Hello Anthony,

I will be opening up Tuesday night listening sessions again soon since Covid vaccinations are making headway.   When that happens you can listen with us.  The Studer cards were sent off to be rebuilt, I actually have two sets and two technicians did work on them.

Soren (from Denmark) did the first set and Studer tech in Canada did the second, my plan is to listen to both and see if I prefer one over the other.  These two Studer technicians have different opinion as to what parts to use, especially caps.

albertporter

Owner
Tony,

First of all I apologize for not responding earlier, Audiogon did not notify me about your post on my thread.

I have heard both Magico and Focal Grande EM at audio shows and I was both impressed and disappointed, depending on set up, room acoustics and associated equipment.

When I was speaker shopping I had a dozen on my list before deciding and ultimately it was a set up in Montreal that made me decide to buy the Focal Grande EM.

Something to consider with any speaker are parts and service.  Since my Focal Purchase several of the speaker companies or specific model I was considering are no more.  Either company changed hands or model is gone.

 That makes me wonder, what if there are no exact replacement parts later on?  

When I spoke to Focal they told me to my face that they could provide an exact and perfect replacement for any driver or crossover part in my EM Grande for all foreseeable time.  Nine years have passed and their promise is still true.

If you have not already found your ideal choice, I hope you are successful and have the will power and patience to match up other pieces in the chain necessary to make your system as perfect as you can.

Ultimately all the other pieces in the system are as important as the speaker.  I achieved that in my system and honestly if someone ask to buy my speakers I would not sell.   I have no idea where I would go to replace them.

albertporter

Owner
I'm proud to have delivered an Allnic L7000 to another performing artist.  Here are his comments:

"As a performing artist, my field of expertise is classical music.
         As a singer, I have learned that a resonant tone, 
         accurately produced from a stable centered core,
         resonates the truest, and most accurately vibrant tone.

         All sound production, whether live or reproduced,
         fundamentally adhere's to this principle."

Obviously he feels Allnic is true to his art and profession.   Please visit his website:

http://gordon-hawkins-baritone.com/

albertporter

Owner
Thank you Jamiek for your kind words and also for the bit of humor. 

I like my Grande Utopia very much and while they are not perfect I cannot think of a speaker I would trade for, especially considering how long it took to break in the focal.
 

albertporter

Owner
I've been experimenting with the Studer A820 playback.  The on board electronics can be built up many different ways, I have heard two so far and have two more that will be added.

I previously tried the King-Cello and although it was good there were things about the Studer electronics I preferred.   I think the Trafoless cards are more transparent and resolved but somewhat less musical than the transformer versions.   I’m not picking one over the other at this time, just evaluating and experimenting.

I hope within the next few months to have four sets of boards I can plug and play in the A820, each built with different voice due to choice of caps, resistors and solid state devices chosen.

albertporter

Owner
Earthstones,

I think you have me  confused with another person.  I do not have any earthstone products and the VTL in the first image is VERY old, I use Allnic M5000 for several years now.

Last, in case you are confusing your product with the floor in my listening room, my floor is India slate.  Not an earthstone product.

albertporter

Owner
See new image of Studer A820

albertporter

Owner
Studer A820 arrived, it is near perfect and all 21 component boards are off being rebuilt and renewed to as good or better than when new.

Image of new Studer soon, it’s a beauty :-)

albertporter

Owner
Finally found a near perfect Studer A820, I bought it but due to Covid-19 crisis can’t pick up for a couple more weeks.

I love my Studer A810 but this is a mastering machine, should provide another level of performance.

albertporter

Owner
Watch soon for ad here at Audiogon for my custom built Steve Smith Studer A810 Archival machine.  It plays quarter and half track,  quarter inch tape and is four speed version as well as NAB and CCIR EQ.

Possible I will sell my custom aluminum stand and Vibraplane designed for this Studer as well.   

I’ll post images of my new machine once it arrives.

albertporter

Owner
Koetsu Blue Lace is mounted, currently less than ten hours toward break in.  This is an amazing cartridge, the first time I’ve owned a contender for number one spot since buying the Air Tight Opus.

Last week during our usual Tuesday night listening session there was spirited debate as to which was better.   A couple of members saying the Koetsu was best ever and a couple saying the Air Tight was more accurate and best choice.

Speaking of choice, it’s nice to have two excellent choices for whatever LP I choose to spin.

albertporter

Owner
Ordered Koestu Blue Lace as alternative to my Air Tight Opus and Mutech.

The waitto build and deliver is 1.5 months, hope it meets my expectations.

albertporter

Owner
I recently purchased several  iFi AC mains purifiers, they are very effective at reducing noise in my system.

Best results were obtained when placed in line with digital power supplies such as those found in big screen TV, Amazon Fire box, router and LED lighting near my system.

Cost is low, $99.00 each.  I bought mine at Amazon and found that a total of four provided maximum performance.   Beyond four,  no further improvement and I went to maximum of seven to determine what was possible. 

albertporter

Owner
Very excited to have ended three year search for near perfect TTM three piece record stabilizer.  

The previous single piece model was my reference for years and this deluxe one takes performance even further.  Our group voted using multiple LPs, everyone agreed the new three piece damper was quieter with blacker background, tighter and deeper bass and a much better sense of the space the recording was done in.

albertporter

Owner
Lots of changes and too busy to sit down and correct.   Today added component images and text:

Degritter Ultrasonic LP cleaning machine
Mutech Hayabusa MC cartridge
Emission Labs WE version 300B tubes (6 each)

Removed component images and text:

PS Audio Direct Stream DAC
Kiseki Purple Heart
KL Audio Ultra Sonic LP cleaning machine
Audio Desk Ultra Sonic LP cleaning machine

albertporter

Owner
Hello Mike,

Those devices on my AC cables are there to prevent loss of conductivity from vibration.   They are made by Furutech and called NCF booster.

NCF boosters are available in several versions and the ones you ask about are for AC, especially those with Furutech connectors.  Other NCF devices are a similar design but for interconnect and speaker cables.

I tested the interconnect and speaker cable versions without improvement to my system.  Then again, I am wired 100% with Purist Audio cables and they are quite resistant to those problems anyway.   With another cable design it might be a big deal.

The AC cables did get an improvement from the NCF, and I while would not put them at the top of my upgrade priority anyone with top tier AC cables,  upgraded wall outlets and other associated equipment should benefit from them.

Sound is much like the AC cable itself, but in miniature.  If you like your AC cable and want it to be more refined, solid and lower distortion this is what the NCF provides.   It’s not day and night but then again, it costs a fraction of what a good AC cable costs.

If you try them post back results, I would love to read about that.  I think too that the connection to the wall benefits more than at the IEC end but again, it is likely system dependent.


albertporter

Owner
I just ordered a match quad of Emission Labs 300B tubes to try in the Allnic L-10000 and if successful maybe put in the H-8000 phono stage.

Currently my reference is Takatsuki but hoping EM performance will be worthy of recommendation for Allnic users.

albertporter

Owner
That’s a super looking turntable and since it’s a Technics SP-10R motor it may well be the "best" out there.  

The only problem is price.  Based on what SAT charges for their tonearm the turntable will be hyper expensive.  Do you purchase a Technics SP-10R or pay $xx more for the same motor sitting in a SAT developed chassis?

I am certain I will never have the opportunity to compare all these versions against my SP10 MK3 in our plinth.  The Technics SP10R is still somewhat in short supply and the SAT rig will be even more rare.

All that said, I will eventually purchase a SP10R or SL-1000R (or both) and compare with my turntable and plinth.  

One thing for sure, it's great to see the Technics SP10 motor get the respect it deserves.  When I switched over to MK2 and then the MK3  from my $100,000.00 plus rig many years go I had one reviewer say,

"Albert has taken leave of his senses.”

Funny things is, the turntables that everyone was screaming over at that time are now recognized as less performance. 

For all of us, the SP10 MK3 is becoming more and more of a bargain as Technics releases new  SP10R and SL-1000. 

When I  switched to the Technics MK3 you could find one in almost new condition for $3,500.00 to $4,500.00.  Prices climbed over the years and until the release of the  SP10R the MK3 had climbed to as much as $14,000.00 without plinth or arm.  

I still wonder about the one specification that Technics does not disclose.  Torque, it’s what pushes the platter.   The SP10 MK3 produces 16KG/CM and uses a copper 22 pound platter.   The SP10R is 17 pound platter and no torque spec.

Will be interesting to find what that missing spec brings to the performance table.   In my system I have added a super heavy stainless steel platter mat and center weight and it provided a HUGE  improvement.  The MK3 motor still brings the platter to perfect speed in part of a single revolution, that’s what torque does and I wonder if that same torque might be the major contributor to super controlled crushing bass the MK3 provides.

albertporter

Owner
I've been experimenting with tubes, recently purchased triple mica silver plate Mazda 12AU7 and Sylvainia dark glass 6AN8, both of which are required in the Allnic L10000.

It's amazing how much change can be made by tube choices, currently enjoying Holland Bugle Boy 12AU7 and loving the layers and dynamics this provides.

Considering Emission Labs (WE equivelent) 300B to try against my current favorite the Takatsuki.

albertporter

Owner
I sold my demo pair of Allnic M5000 mono blocks to a customer who I now regard as a friend.

My new M5000 are completed, shipped and due to arrive this coming week.

My Studer is in the hands of a local tech who will replace the meter lamps, realign heads and do a general tune up.  I can hardly wait to hear what these changes bring.

I also plan on testing a few 12AU7 tubes, required in my Allnic L10000. 

On hand are:

(French) Mazda 5 star triple mica
Telefunken (1960s) smooth plate
Mullard 12AU7 square getter
Mullard military CV4003
Mullard 7316 (an ultra low noise version)

One of these should have the perfect personality  to push the Allnic L10000 into even higher performance.

albertporter

Owner
The web address I provided is Mockingbird Distributon,  Phillip is a friend and the guy that brings in MuTech.

You can contact me via any ad I have running at Audiogon or contact Phillip.

albertporter

Owner
Henri,

Mutech Hayabusa, and fairly reasonable price.   I prefer it to Kiseki Purple Heart which is a great cartridge.   Difference is primary in the high frequencies, Mutech Hayabusa is more open than the Kiseki but still warm.

Mike Fremer is supposed to do a review soon, I will have access to them for people that want to deal with me.

http://mockingbirddistribution.com/mutech-cartridges/

albertporter

Owner
A friend has become distributor for a very nice MC cartridge, I listened to it and bought one for my system.  No, it's not an Air Tight Opus but it does share some character of it and yet blends contrast and tonal balance more toward the Lyra ETNA.

I believe the price will be $4500.00, so a bit more money than the Kiseki Purple Heart but only about third of the Opus and Lyra ETNA.

In short I think there will be audiophiles that find it a perfect match for their system.  I'll post more when I get more hours on it and full correct data from manufacturer

albertporter

Owner
I did not know about him.   A purchase at Amazon brought up his name and album and from there I listened, read about him and bought both of his LPs.

Turns out he's from Ft. Worth, TX.   I grew up there, only a short drive from Dallas where I live now.

Leon reminds me a bit of Al Green and Sam Cooke, both artists I admire.  Leon is a bit more Hip Hop but also a younger man.

I miss the posts at Audiogon where people discuss new music.   A few years ago I was very strong on the forums over Black Dub, the group with Daniel Lanois, Brian Blade and Trixie Whitley.   I still listen to them and grateful to have in my library.

albertporter

Owner
Last night I played a new demo tape, a near first generation Blue Note Jazz sampler and I think this is probably the best sound I've ever had from any system I’ve ever owned.   Not only this superior piece of software but the new preamp as well. 

Ever so often after pushing and working to get everything right you get on the other side of all the obstacles and your system breaks though and delivers like never before.

This new Allnic L-10000 is still in break in mode but I'm happy with it even if it never got a molecule better.

I just purchased a new LP, an artist I only just recently discovered.  His name is Leon Bridges, the album  "Good Thing"  arrived a few days ago.   I played it during our Tuesday night music session.

This is a great music album from Columbia, not an "audiophile" release.  The point is the new L-10000 preamp filled me with joy when listening to this LP.   A sure sign that not only is it a technical win, but equally great at making music where you are filled with joy.

Link to a YouTube video. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cztfyj1dVgk

albertporter

Owner
First a warning to anyone who goes for this ultimate preamp from Allnic, break in changes are big time, even compared to the L-7000 with its big transformers.

By warning, I mean don’t expect the L-10000 to break in and come around like any other Allnic preamp.   In fact its peak is reached in a different manner than any preamp I’ve ever heard.

For instance the Allnic L-7000 is slightly soft and closed in when new.  With hours it quickly gets more open, extended and tighter in bass.  Extreme high frequencies are beautiful and delicate but not all there until some hours with music through it.

The L-10000 is reverse of this.  Brash, tipped up highs and slight boom in bass, I was worried about it and did not know what would come of this early somewhat disappointing sound.

With time those problems went away and it began to sound more like the best of the L-7000, meaning it gets everything right and in addition is more filled out in its sound stage and VERY powerful.  It allows LPs to deliver contrast and dynamics bordering on my Studer.   All the things the L-7000 does this does better, plus content is delivered that you didn’t know was there.

As for tube swapping, the stock 12AU7 was a military tube and my impression was the music and detail were all there but lacked the emotion and color I wanted.   The NOS Mullard fixed that immediately and they are easy to find and not crazy money.

The 300B was an even bigger shock, the Russian (EH) tubes compared to Takatsuki 300B are rough and slightly dirty.  The Russian tubes delivered uneven dynamics and did not treat all frequencies equally. 

So the short story, the Takatsuki 300B is incredible addition to this circuit but it’s also big bucks.  Don't listen to them if you can’t justify the investment, you will not want to give them up.

However, in the end with sufficient hours on Russian tubes and Takatsuki (both with Mullard input tube) will make you forget just about every other preamp out there.   With the special tubes I’ve described I’ve had to readjust my expectations during every listening session, especially when playing back master tape.  There, the content is so deep and dense that I realize I  had never uncovered all that was there until now.  

Safe to say the big Allnic preamp uncorks the bottle and delivers like nothing else. I’m not sure it’s done yet as each session is more refined and musical but maintains all the positives I’ve already mentioned.

albertporter

Owner
Put NOS Mullard 12AU7 in L-10000, nice improvement.   Now trying Takatsuki 300B in place of sock Russian tubes.  

This is a very fine preamp, quite beautiful.

albertporter

Owner
I recently received the new Allnic L-10000 OTL~OCL preamp.   This uses four 300B tubes as outputs and has balance provision to tweak bias on tubes.

I posted images at Facebook if you want to take a look.   Link will probably have to be copy and paste into browser.

https://www.facebook.com/allnicaudiousa/?eid=ARD21xJoZ7a_zn9bdXyvZJFdAwie8Dfk_ML44kc5rexV-zToWzRbqU0xe0PUfzN74URIXp-f04JYd3tS

albertporter

Owner
I'm ready for it, just need Technics to catch up on orders.

I saw your other post, I know Steve Dobbins, he and I both were big fans of Technics SP10 MK3 but I don't know how he could possibly make a judgement about the SP10R versus the MK3 unless he had both and did extensive listening.

Also, there are differences in opinion as to how a turntable should sound.   I know several designs that have very low torque, requiring quite a lot of time before the platter is stable and perfectly on speed.   The MK3 has massive torque and I think that's one of the things I like most about it.

The new SP10R has a 5~6 pound lighter platter than the MK3 and my MK3 is run with a 5 pound stainless steel mat.  So nearly 11 pounds difference in mass between my MK3 and the new Technics. 

In spite of that additional mass my MK3 reaches full speed in less than half a revolution and laser testing proves it's dead accurate on speed.   That plus the ability to provide unwavering speed accuracy regardless of intensity of the material recorded on the LP is exactly what is required of a turntable.

Another thing I find interesting is the folks at Technics have not published torque specifications on the new model.  I also heard a rumor that digital circuitry is used in the SP10R motor controller circuit.

If the digital rumor is true I hope they did extensive work to keep the digital from showing up on our AC line.   I've recently had five very high quality DACs in my system and everyone one of them harmed my analog sound,  just being powered on while listening to LP.

Of course there are filters and AC cords that remove this digital noise but it's not cheap.  In fact the best solution I’ve heard cost $10K, so added to the price of the SP10R makes is considerably more expensive if this digital turns out to be a factor (and I admit I DO NOT know if this is or is not an issue).

I just don't know about these variables, I sincerely hope the new Technics is better,  much better and would love to find out for myself by careful,  long term unbiased listening.

albertporter

Owner
Henri,

I spoke to Technics at Rocky Mountain and they indicated orders were strong and not yet caught up for dealers.

I don't know when I can get one but must first obtain and then test before I decide if the new one is better.   

Personally I  hope the new one is superior since it's so beautiful.  Not to mention cheaper than finding a perfect original Technics SP10 MK3 and then paying for all the updates and mods to make it like mine.

If the new one is better I will sell mine.  If my restored MK3 is better performer I'll not only keep it, I'll buy another MK3 just to be sure I'm covered.

albertporter

Owner
tonib,

I've owned a lot of amps including Counterpoint OTL, Atma-Sphere MA2, Wolcotts, Viva, Tube Research, Allnic and Audio Research.  

Actually quite a few others including some solid state, class D and vintage designs modernized to compete with current designs.  I'll skip these and stay with amps at hand.

All of these are great amps with performance variations based on their personality and design plus load they must drive.   With Sound Lab speakers, which have near impossible load in deepest bass, the Counterpoint and Atma-Sphere OTL designs did wonders since they don't mind the high impedance.

It was not until I bought the VTL 750s that I owned a transformer coupled amp that had enough juice to push the Sound Labs to their limit.  I preferred the VTL over all the other brands mentioned when driving Sound Lab.  I must inject here,  Audio Research and Allnic amps trials came after I sold the Sound Labs.  So they don't apply to that experience.

When I sold the Sound Lab and moved to Dali Megaline I started over on amp trials and continued with Atma-Sphere, Wolcotts and VTL 750s.  The old Allnic M-3000 (series one) were in the system for a time, driving the bass in this bi amp system.  I often regret not trying four Allnic M3000 on the Dali.  I think it would have been marvelous with the ribbon tweeters.

When I upgraded to Focal Grande EM I kept one pair of VTL 750 and sold the other.  The Focal does not require bi amp like the Dali did and is considerably more efficient.

After Focal got broken in the VTL 750 pushed exceptionally well but the Allnic M3000 MK2 (new version) was more articulate, cleaner and higher resolution with perhaps had a bit less "slam" factor.  Note that slam factor can be fun but often comes off sounding more like a "thud" rather than articulate shading and resolution, so taste and preference is a huge factor here.

The Audio Research Ref 250 with KT-150 tubes whipped the VTL on resolution, speed, signal to noise and bandwidth but did suffer a little from high frequency brightness which I am particularly sensitive to.

I ultimately choose the Allnic M-3000 MK2 (KT-150 tubes like Audio Research) for the Focal and I had everything I needed until Allnic ask my opinion about performance.  When I mentioned how much I loved the sound of super powerful amps but did not want the brightness or loss of articulation they designed the M-5000 amps.

The M-5000 is without a doubt the finest amps I've ever heard.  They are actually more resolved and agile than the M-3000 and equal in every way to the positive aspects of the Audio Research Ref 250 but with zero brightness or hardness.

The M-5000 are easily as powerful as the VTL 750 and Tube Research GT 400 so nothing given up there.   I think the nickle core transformers that Allnic hand makes is part of the magic.    Also, only the Audio Research and Allnic M-5000 use a "power" tube to drive the output power tube.  Both circuits choose the new KT-150 tube final output where other use KT-120, KT-88, 6550 or other older designs.

I think choosing a "power" tube  to drive a power tube opens up a world of dynamics and contrast not available with other options.   I will say that all these are great amps and depending on speaker and associated equipment the owner of same could easily boast they have the "best."

We all know "best" is a difficult thing to categorize and certainly the ultimate amp choice is determined by all the other pieces in the system.  Everything effect final sound.  Source, cable and room acoustics plus the speaker.  Decisions are made to reach a final balance that pleases.

albertporter

Owner
Wonderful review just posted at The Audio Beat on Allnic M3000 MK2

http://www.theaudiobeat.com/equipment/allnic_audio_m3000_mk2.htm

albertporter

Owner
Henri,

Allnic built as set of Mu Metal cylinders that tightly fit the four input tubes on my new Allnic L-10000.   I have still have not had time to do critical comparisons since I've changed four other things in the past couple of months and set a personal policy for myself to keep track of things so I can learn. 

I will  say the L-7000 was improved greatly by removing the router that was on shelf directly above it and improved again when Mu Metal shields were added to the input tubes.

albertporter

Owner
Added Furutech Cable Boosters to the system.  Still need two more for Focal power supply boxes but these things really work.  It's not the kind of improvement like adding a high end cable but if you already have everything else pushed this is very worthwhile.

Difficult to describe everything it does but short story is better focus and more solid overall.  By solid I mean the sound stage, bass tightness and clarity of extreme high frequencies.   I've been experimenting with Porter Ports and new Furutech GTX-DR NCF that are special triple cryo mag treated via Purist Audio.   As much as I love Porter Ports these are better and give up nothing except they are nine times more money :-).

Image added to system so you can see details of outlets, Boosters and cables.  One cable is not hooked up, the new Allnic MU-7R long run where it's compared to Purist best.  Of course price difference here is huge as well.

albertporter

Owner
The new Allnic H-8000 DHT phono continues to break in, open up and set new performance levels none of us have experienced before.

Primary design improvement include wide bandwidth transformers which are providing marked dynamics and resolution over the entire musical spectrum.

This past Tuesday night with our listening group in attendance, we swapped the excellent RCA 5R4GY for a matched pair of Western Electric 422A gray plates.

This was yet another improvement with everyone in attendance agreeing. I and the others are eager to hear the evolution, as both Western Electric tubes and this new Allnic H-8000 circuit reach their peak performance.

albertporter

Owner
Cipherjuris,

The new Allnic L-10000 preamp arrived at a time when many changes were going on in my system.  I've been hesitant to confuse testing by adding another component so currently it's just sitting unused.

I did give it a brief listen when it arrived and it is so different from my Allnic L-7000 it was confusing.  There is a need for many hours of break in so I will revisit again once my system is settled.

The retail price of the Allnic L-10000 is $30,000.00.   That's a lot for a preamp so I want to be sure I know exactly what it's bringing to the system.

Currently with the Allnic L-7000 I have the best sound I've ever had, EVER. 

My digital is better than my analog was last year.   Something I've been wanting for more than 30 years.  I never hated digital, just disappointed with all the praise and claims and no delivery on music.  Of course the same quality spread is still there, master tape number one, turntable number two and digital number 3.

Still, digital is now at a point where someone walking in to listen for the first time would assume they were listening to extremely high quality analog.  Again, something I thought would not happen in my lifetime.

There are several things that brought about these last few months of improvements,  one I've been hesitant to post about because I'll likely get a lot of disbelief and nay sayers over my comments.

My router which was installed in a shelf above my preamp was degrading sound so much I would have never gotten where I am now without removing it from the room completely.

I have also been experimenting with Mu Metal shields on tubes and have achieved a new level of silence, dynamics and detail that I did not think possible.   

Of course all of this happened about the same time as installing the new Purist Audio Design umbilical cable between Focal power supply and Focal Grande EM speakers.   This cable was an improvement like changing a component.

I also completed all my power cable changes, I am now 100% Purist 30th Anniversary AC cables on everything and now even changing one to a lesser cable is immediately audible.

I'll post once I have a chance to listen to the L-10000, meanwhile I ordered and received a set of Mu Metal shields for it as well and will test with and without.

albertporter

Owner
Just received the new Allnic L-10000 preamp.  This is a monster, about the size of a tube amp.  It's direct coupled and uses (4) 300B tubes for output.

I have not had enough time with it for comment but plan on listening most of this coming weekend and let the guys in the Tuesday night music group have a listen when we meet.

Here is link to image https://www.facebook.com/pg/allnicaudiousa/posts/?ref=page_internal

albertporter

Owner
Nice write up by Mark Blackmore at AudioBeat, please visit and read what he wrote about the Allnic H-1201 phono stage.

http://www.theaudiobeat.com/equipment/allnic_audio_h1201.htm

albertporter

Owner
I'm in the process of breaking in the brand new Allnic H-8000 DHT phono stage.   I recently received this, the first one delivered in this hemisphere.  

This is the replacement for the Allnic H-5000 DHT phono and design changes include improvements to the power supply allowing greater signal to noise ratio and reduced microphonics and most important, brand new super wide band transformers that drastically improve both bandwidth and resolution.

There are small cosmetic changes to the chassis but overall looks very similar and retains the two large chassis, one for main unit and one for power supply.

Last Tuesday our group listened to many LPs that are familiar to us and it was remarkable to hear things that we did not know existed in the grooves.  This is an amazing piece of equipment.

I loved the Allnic H-5000, thought it not possible to improve upon but this new design brings detail, depth and resolution like I've never experienced.   It's still changing every time we listen, I can't imagine where it will wind up after a few months on the circuit.

albertporter

Owner
Edited system  to include new DAC and changes to cables.

albertporter

Owner
Mike,

I guess there are various terms for all these products, Vibraplane has two versions of their isolation devices.  One is termed as active and one is termed passive.   Difference is the auto level and AC powered pump.

Folk Freak,  thanks for clarification via link.

Eric,   It's been awhile since I tested Townshend and yes, it was the old version.
I probably should have been more specific rather than just saying the brand.  

I suspect results with any of these systems we're discussing might well vary in different situations and with different equipment.  Of course this all began over amp isolation and got over to turntables.   Certainly turntables are among the most sensitive to since the tiny signal from cartridge is magnified thousands of time when we listen.

albertporter

Owner
Folk Freak,

I am aware that Herzan is active, but so is Vibraplane.   I use all the layers mentioned but without the Vibraplane it would fail the test I mentioned.

I believe Vibraplane is good to about 5HZ, it's easy to look up if critical to know the exact number.

I have been warned that Vibraplane and Herzan isolation on amps can loose dynamics and take away life.   I have not tried Townshend under a turntable but it was not good under preamps, DAC and phono stage.

albertporter

Owner
I have never experimented with Herzan, I know it's another top flight solution.

The stand my turntable sits on is my design, it has stainless feet and interior fill of silica and coated with rubberized damper spray.  

The top has a lead plate and damper putty and on that rests a 1.25" sheet of Panzerholz.  The Vibraplane rests on that and is platform for turntable.

My Technics SP10 MK 3 is in my custom plinth, a multi layer Panzerholz design that includes aluminum plate, bass wood and other materials.  The turntable bearing itself rests upon a brass rod and iron plate damper assembly. 

Each corner of the plinth bottom has1/4-20 thread holes, each with stainless rods where Stillpoints Ultra 5s are fitted.  The whole assembly rests on the Vibraplane.   It's probably close to 300 pounds not counting the stand.

To test the system I can cue the cartridge down onto a stopped LP.  Then turn up the volume and jump up and down beside the stand. 

Absolutely nothing  comes out of the speaker.   That's a lot of energy for the system to ignore but it does. 

I don't think the amps need nearly as much isolation as the turntable but it sure would be nice to experiment.

albertporter

Owner
That reads like my set up for analog (turntable).   I have multiple points of isolation including a Vibraplane which is essential in my opinion, at least for a non suspension design turntable.

I've often wondered if it would be worth buying a few more Vibraplanes and throw a couple under the  mono block amps.   The price of all the devices there now are easily as much money. 

At one point I checked with Vibraplane and was told you could run eight or ten Vibraplanes off a single pump.  That assumes good set up and no leaks.  I've noticed that with my two Vibraplanes the pump is almost never on and when it engages it's only for 10 or 15 seconds.

albertporter

Owner
folkfreak,

I knew big mono block amps were sensitive to both footers and stands but after spending months locating a pair of stands I loved the look of, it was disappointing to experience such a performance hit.

I understand about the Grand Prix stands.  I owned several of them at one time, had the big ones with Apex feet under two pair of VTL 750s. 

I was diligent about measuring Grand Prix damper compression to be sure they were not flattened too much by all the weight.   I eventually wound up drilling 1/4-20 threads where VTL screws fixed the stock rubber feet and added Stillpoints directly onto the chassis.  That was a spectecular upgrade in spite of the quality of the Grand Prix stands.

It was Deja Vu again when I put Stillpoints under the Allnic M-5000 after trying fancy stands again.

I'm beginning to wonder if any stand can match the ease, performance and simplicity of just putting  Stillpoints between the amps and sitting it all on the floor.

albertporter

Owner
Hello Henri,

I wanted the stands to work very much but after tweaking every way possible the big Allnic M-5000 amps are back on my slate floor with just three Stillpoints Ultra 5s under them.

The stands look impressive and it sure made it easier to bias but the addition of the stand added a serious haze over the resolution and the image collapsed.  

Equally bad were loss of dynamics and bass impact. Even the extreme high frequencies suffered due to smearing.

What's odd is even with (3 or 4) Stillpoints Ultra 5 between the stand tops and my amps, the damage was still done by leaving the stand in the system.

I even considered having custom 1/2" stainless steel tops made for each stand and replacing the four stock aluminum footers with additional Stillpoints Ultra 5's.  Problem is there is no guarantee it would perform as well as just sitting on the floor after all that work and money.

I'm disappointed but that's why we test this stuff, even if you like the way something looks and the idea seems solid.    If listening proves it harms the music you just have to make a U turn back to where you started.  

I plan on testing some rare 1950s gray plate Western Electric 422A in the Allnic H-5000.  I love my 1940s RCA JAN CRC double getter but perhaps there is an improvement to be had.   I sure won't have problem selling the WE if they don't do magic in that circuit.   Very hard to find NOS match pairs.

albertporter

Owner
https://www.facebook.com/allnicaudiousa/photos/a.1795399037362375.1073741831.1758731891029090/2107800279455581/?type=3  finally put together a match pair of Billy Bags Pro 24 amp stands to support Allnic M5000 amps. These stands are long since discontinued, so it took six months to locate two nice ones.

I like having the amps off the floor, not only for looks but it's easier to check bias and they might be running a bit cooler as well.

albertporter

Owner
Henri,

I absolutely want to purchase one.  Probably late Summer as I think sales will be brisk and possible back order upon introduction.  Ideal I would have both the SP10R and the  maybe the SL-1000R to experiment with.

Either way I would compare to my heavily modified SP10 MK3 to find ultimate performer.  This might take awhile,  especially if there are only small differences or performance trade off. 

In my dreams the SP10R would be better than my SP10 MK3 and SL-1000R  would sound as good as my custom plinth.  I cannot seem to get enough custom plinths built so it would be nice to have affordable option. 

The SL-1000R is estimated to be retail $20K.   If so, it's not much more than crazy people on line are asking for old original SP10 MK3.  There was a clean SP10 MK3 at Ebay for $13K, no plinth or mods.  

If the Technics plinth is a  winner then other turntable builders had better run for cover.  At $20K ready to roll, including arm is a steal for ultimate turntable in today's heavy priced record spinners.

Of course if the new SP10R in my plinth is the best sound,  I still get an upgrade over my original modified SP10 MK3.   I have to admit,  the Technics SL-1000R is a beauty and option for three tone arms is awesome.  

I can just see my SL-1000R with the supplied Technics arm plus my two Kuzma 4 Point 14" arms.   Unlimited options for both stereo and mono cartridges and outstanding design and beauty for the eye.

albertporter

Owner
With CES in full swing more images of new Technics SP10 R have shown up on web.   I hope it sounds as good as it looks, what a beauty !

What would be excellent is if their platform (base) was comparable to the one I designed and built.   Best of all, the new Technics can support three tonearms !

I hope it sounds as good as it looks !  Here's a great link with info:

http://www.technics.com/download/brochures/uk/SL1000R_SP10R_EU_Print.pdf

albertporter

Owner
Dave,

Thank you for Christmas wishes !

Funny, I forgot about Symposium, I have some of the premium model in my storage area, need to drag them out and try since you got good results.

I have Stillpoint Ultra SS under the Aurender currently and it was an improvement over stock feet.   I'm also ordering some lower end Purist XLR cables, thinking the silver in their premium might be "too revealing" for the digital.   The silver is excellent with my analog but I guess that's to be expected.

albertporter

Owner
Anyone experimented with footers under Aurender?  Seems to be quite audible but I'm experimenting with AC cable, interconnect cable and footers all at same time.

Looking for more analog sound, the Aurender already is top drawer for this but would be nice to move it a little closer to my turntable.

albertporter

Owner
Sorry to be slow, just noticed your question.

I have not made a comparision as both of these are fairly rare but the biggest difference I'm told is the power supply of the Kronzilla is solid state where Allnic is tube.

Of course Allnic is known for their nickle core transformers so that's another factor.

I don't know what you are seeking but for the money I believe the new Allnic M5000 is the best out there.   I continue to be amazed by the pair in my system.  So far there are only two pair in N American but as they get into  more hands I think you will hear a lot about them.

albertporter

Owner
Returned home late Monday afternoon from Rocky Mountain Audio Fest.  It was a great show as is every year.   I had the Allnic DHT DAC in Purist Audio / Classic Audio room and had great sound.

albertporter

Owner
Thank you Lalit,

Aurender told me the N10 was excellent and I almost bought it.   I suspect it's performance is very near the W20.   I was hoping the W20 would pull digital out of the slumps and make it good enough to listen along side analog.

It's getting better day by the day.  Aurender advised W20 requires a couple of hundred hours break in and of course the Purist 25th AES/EBU will need break in as well.

albertporter

Owner
Update,

So far I love the Aurender, nice improvement over any previous digital source including other computer servers.   Wish I sold this product, would be easy to get behind since it's so well made and easy to deal with.

albertporter

Owner
Hello Dave,

Tech at Aurender told me best connection was AES/EBU because that allows Aurender internal clock to work, as opposed to USB which is asynchronous.

Better still would be dual AES/EBU but unfortunately neither the Allnic nor PS Audio DACs can take advantage of that technology.

So, I have a Purist 25th Anniversary AES/EBU on order but with floods in Lake Jackson and Houston I don't know when I will receive.

I'm hoping these changes will bring my digital up a notch or two, I'm back to being disappointed with it since my analog has improved so much :-).

albertporter

Owner
Removed equipment recently sold. 

Added Aurender W20
Added PS Audio Direct Stram DAC
Added four additional Purist 30th Anniversary AC cables. 
Added Kiseki Purple Heart Cartridge
Added Images of Allnic H5000 DHT phono
Added Images of Allnic M5000 mono block amps

albertporter

Owner
Sold off Mac Mini, Atomic base, computer screen, two Keces linear power supplies and Data Tale with four ea 4TB drives drives Purist 30th USB and Audioquest Coffee Thunderbolt.  Also erased JRiver apps off iPad and iPhone.

Replaced with new Aurender W20,  black finish and I'm currently moving music files into it.  Hope to have rit unning in three days.  

Best bonus, Aurender takes up so little space compared to all the gear it replaces, I have another shelf for LPs.

albertporter

Owner
For those interested, here is image of new SP10 R  (R for Reference).

https://postimg.org/image/i9u6td4z7/

albertporter

Owner
Received full confirmation that Technics is finally releasing the SP10 R, the super high end replacement for SP10 MK3.

I had hint of this more than a year ago and held off buying any more SP10 MK3 because I believe Technics is fully capable of producing a limit of the art turntable with newest and best technology.

I'm excited about this, could finally be a replacement for my MK3.

albertporter

Owner
I had to post this.  Tonight everyone was complimenting sound as we played The Doors LA Woman and Doors Morrison Hotel.   LP of Morrison Hotel is the new 45 RPM release from Chad at Acoustic, very impressive.

While looking for LA Woman I found a DCC  low serial number release by Steve Hoffman on LP.  I knew I had several DCC LPs releases of The Doors but I have not played LA Woman in a good while.

Both were excellent, it's hard to say which was better since the recordings are so different to begin with.

I will say the Hoffman LA Woman was way better than I remember.   Of course I've pushed my system a lot this last year but this LP has to be really right to get this kind of sound. Regardless of the gear.

albertporter

Owner
Mike,

Thank you for the report and kind words about the preamp. 

Although  I did not hear the exact things you describe I had similar experience with improved resolution, things I have never heard before.   Songs where the mix of instruments cover vocal are suddenly more separate and I can understand lyrics as well as emotion that was buried.

Believe it or not, it will slowly improve even more with time.    Mine has improved remarkably since I got it and upgrading the 300B tubes were another bump.   Not a requirement but very pleasant surprise.

albertporter

Owner
Norm,

I have not experimented with Verus II controller so I cannot comment.  If you have issues with MK2 controller you should get in touch with the guy that builds my power supplies.   Music Technology, Bill Thalmann.  He used to be head tech with Conrad Johnson, a very sharp guy and reasonable price.

He has a new replacement chip to sub on Technics MK2 and MK3.   Users report better dynamics and even more speed stable than before.   I keep looking for a time to send my controller in, when I don't mind being out of business in it's absence.

If you contact me via communication boxes here at Audiogon I will send my email address if you wish to discuss.  

By the way, the Furutech IEC is a great connector, I think an even bigger upgrade than the fuses but both together is better.

albertporter

Owner
Norm,

It was audible on  my MK2 when I owned it, is your power supply completely rebuilt including new IEC connector and premium fuses?

I've found in general that power supply is a bid deal in audio, regardless of where it is in the system.   My MK2 and MK3 both had complete rebuild and Krebs mods, was a big deal and AC cables are very audible here too.

A cheap way to experience AC cable upgrade on MK2 or MK3 is Purist Aquila.  I have a three meter you could try and see if it works in your system.

Just pay a deposit and then return for credit.   I'm sure it's too long even if you like the sound and price but we can address that if you have interest.

albertporter

Owner
I just replaced my two remaining Purist 25th Anniversary AC cables with new 30th Anniversary AC cables.   So far every place I've swapped over to 30th Anniversary has resulted in a big improvement.   New cables are quieter, more dynamic and more detail without being bright or forward. 

These last two 30th were fitted to Studer A810 open reel and Technics MK3 turntable power supply.  

Probably over the top to put such an expensive AC cable on the turntable but I began with entry level Purist AC and every upgrade in Purist line has resulted in improved analog (turntable) performance. 

In any case the new AC cable is not welded into place, I can always remove and sell if it turns out to not be worth the investment.

albertporter

Owner
All the Allnic pieces for sound and display are on their way to the LA Audio Show at the Sheraton Gateway Hotel, Los Angeles, California.

I'll be making music with the new Allnic L7000 (preamp), the new Allnic H7000 (phono), Allnic M3000 amps, Allnic D5000 DAC, new Allnic HPA 3000 GT Triode headphone amp, and for static display the Allnic H1201 phono.

Come see us in rooms 376 / 379 beginning Friday June 2 through Sunday June 4.

We are showing with Purist Audio Design and PBN and for source there will be  two music servers and a turntable .

albertporter

Owner
Added image of my Technics MK3, now fitted with twin Kuzma 4 Point 14" tonearms with custom wire.  

One Kuzma has Koetsu Coralstone, the other is Air Tight Opus.  Both cartridges benefited from new arm.  Sold the two SME V12 here at Audiogon.

albertporter

Owner
Henri,

Log into Audiogon and send me a message with your email address or phone number and I'll respond back to you.   We meet every Tuesday night at my place and other days of the week at other homes.

Our group is very diverse.   Horns, electrostatics, cones, DIY and every imaginable kind of set up in between.

albertporter

Owner
John,

Glad you're happy with the Allnic DHT H5000 phono.   You may not know but yours is the first delivery in N America of this improved version.  As you stated, even with 105 DB efficient speakers it's literally dead quiet.

I don't know how KS Park pulled this off but I'm certainly pleased he's achieved this.

albertporter

Owner
Jo,

Yes, this next Tuesday is on for the group.  Contact me via Audiogon and I'll send you contact info.

albertporter

Owner
Scott,

Thanks for reply, I'll look for you to contact me.

albertporter

Owner
Joey,

I'm in DFW area  should you live near or travel through.   You are welcome to listen with us.   Tuesday evening is ideal as there are a room full of other music lovers and each has a system unique to their taste.

albertporter

Owner
Scott,  I’m sorry, I absolutely missed your post asking the question.  I saw the one from Jayctoy and thought that's all there was.

You're welcome to call me or send private message and I'll provide my email address.

albertporter

Owner
Jayctoy,

Thank you for the kind words.  You are welcome to come enjoy a night of music if you travel our way.

albertporter

Owner
Added image and brief description of the new Allnic L-7000 preamp.  I loved the L-3000 but this new L-7000 is better in every way.

albertporter

Owner
The Kuzma 4 point 14" may turn out to be my all time favorite.  Great dynamics, almost zero tracking error due to length and tonal balance equal to SME V12 which is pretty perfect (in my opinion).

The Kuzma is one of the most expensive but other arms I've owned required after market tonearm cables.  Considering the cost savings using factory (unbroken run) of cable from cartridge clips to phono stage and the Kuzma is in line for great value as well as top tier performance.

albertporter

Owner
I loaded several custom parameters in the data base.  I needed several for Allnic including 6AK6, E282F 8233 and 3A5.   I don't remember how many of those existed and how many were custom but Amplitrex built me three or four adapters that allow testing in existing sockets.

I love the tester, biggest thing beyond what we point out is, it tests power tubes and gives accurate results.   I've had three other testers and many will give passing grade on KT88, KT120 and KT150 tubes when they are shorted or have otherwise failed.

I'm a Mac computer guy but Win 10 is trying to make things easier.   I'm still learning and plan to eventually buy a Brother label printer so I can attach sticker to each tube box with test results and curve trace.

albertporter

Owner
After running signal through the Kuzma tonearm for 160 hours I got it set up on my custom MK3 Technics. I choose the Air Tight Opus rather than Koetsu Coralstone since I tend to play the Air Tight more often.

Initial sound is very good, will take several weeks to get everything sorted out and adjusted for best performance.

albertporter

Owner
I just received the new Kuzma 4 Point 14" tonearm and I'm working to get a custom mount board made for my Technics MK3 in Panzerholz +Rosewood  plinth.

The Kuzma  has a special order, 1.7 meter silver tonearm wire that runs unbroken from cartridge clips to RCA connectors into the phono. 

I still  have two SME V12 tonearms and will eventually have an opinion about performance between these two.  The Kuzma will get the Air Tight Opus and the Koetsu Coralstone will remain in one of the SME V12 arms.

I started breaking in the Kuzma tonearm wire yesterday, running analog output from my DAC into it, and feeding the preamp.   I plan on at least 100 hours burn before disconnecting from DAC and installing the MC cartridge.

albertporter

Owner
I just found a match pair of 1959 Western Electric 422A tubes.  Excited to try out in my Allnic H5000 and compare performance against 1943 RCA CRC 5R4GY

albertporter

Owner
Jwm,

Is there more to your test method or full disclosure as posted?   I'm new to this  tester but impressed so far.   I had a KT150 power tube that was behaving in an odd way and the Hickok showed it was fine.

I tested via the Amplitrex and it showed short + partial gas problem.   Not much gets by this tester.

I bought a cheap refurbished HP Windows 10 laptop and installed the software  provided by Amplitrex.  Now I can type in the tube number and it loads.  No more scrolling through the electronic roll chart.

The HP is not yet set up to print data but it's  capable via WiFi. The Amplitrex folks suggest a Brother brand label maker for addresses.  That way you can print then peel and stick data to a "white" tube box.

That reads to be a great option, especially since there is an option for curve trace matching.  Once I'm caught up I want to test all the tubes I have hanging around here.   I have several hundred popular types, would be nice to know which are great and dispose of any that don't cut it.

albertporter

Owner
I received the Amplitrex AT1000 I ordered from Chris Terraneau a few weeks ago.  I must say I am more than impressed by this state of the art tube tester as well as the customer service I received from Mr. Terraneau.

I needed to test common tubes found in high end audio but also the specialty tubes Allnic choose for their designs.

Some of the specialty tubes Allnic uses are:

Kron RS-242  in H5000 DHT phono.
HL2 in H5000 DHT phono. 
3A5 in D5000 DAC 
8233 / E55L Magnoval base (second stage driver) in new Allnic M5000 amps.

Mr. Terraneau not only supplied Zip file with proper test data, but also built three tube adapters that allow Amplitrex testing with and without (optional) Windows laptop interface !

I found some tube errors in my system that did not show with other testers.  Made a few changes and got a significant performance boost.

Of course the new Purist 30th Anniversary AC cables are the other side of this upgrade.  My digital is literally better now than my analog was a few years ago (before the SP10 MK3).

I have 30th Anniversary AC on Allnic M5000 amps, Focal EM power supplies, Allnic L3000 preamp Allnic D5000 DAC and Allnic H5000 phono.  

I moved my Purist 25th Praesto AC cables over to the two linear power supplies that feed Macintosh Mini and Data Tale 4 bay music storage.  Hard to believe how much AC cables effect this position in the system.  Wish I could afford 30th Anniversary here.

I did not think this much improvement was left in my system.   If nothing else it proves it’s best to keep an open mind and experiment.

albertporter

Owner
Regarding:  Albert, thanks for hosting us again last night for a great evening of music. The new Allnic M5000 amps are fantastic, as is the Air Tight Opus I.

After years of setting up phono cartridges, I did not believe that we would hear a miniscule change in tracking force, but we could all easily hear a change of 2/100ths of a gram tracking force with the Air Tight!

Amazing, and this speaks to the overall resolution of your system.

Ken, 

Thank you for that !  We all work hard to try and achieve that magical level where the system gets out of the way and you're transported directly to the emotion of the music.

I agree on the new Allnic M5000.  They just keep getting better every week.  I think the huge custom transformers still have awhile to go to reach 100%.  That's normal for all transformers, improve with hours and these are easy to hear as they change.

Next meeting I want to move the tracking 1/100th of a gram heavier, hope to maintain the fragile perfection in the highs but improve the bass like we had earlier in the evening.   Maybe even back off the anti skate a tiny bit.

As I posted in reply to Jeff, I have two substantial changes coming for the digital, Allnic D5000 DAC.   If you return to hear what the Purist AC contribute I think you will be surprised.

I also want a  3 meter Purist 30th Anniversary AC for the MK3 motor controller.  I know it's a bit insane but every time I've upgraded there the improvement pay off, simply stunning what that cable does for the system.

albertporter

Owner
Regarding:  Albert, I now have 100 hours on the Purist USB cable and it if f-- fantastic. So open, detailed, harmonically right and full in the mids. My system is transformed can you believe just this one cable?

Jeff,

I agree.  This last Tuesday night with friends in our audio group, my digital was working at a level beyond anything I've ever heard.  

My Purist USB is completely broken in now and I found a couple of marginal tubes (and replaced them) in my Allnic D5000 DAC.

Those two changes brought a huge improvement, we listened to several cuts while spinning LPs.    I ordered a Purist 30th Anniversary AC for the DAC and the 25th Anniversary that's there now will move to the linear power supply for computer and Data Tale drive bay.   I think these two changes will make a startling improvement.

albertporter

Owner
Dan,

That would be a very welcome change,  hot in Dallas (about 89 degrees).  I've been to see Mike Lavigne a time or two.   It's beautiful there.

In any case, DFW is a major hub, maybe if you fly though here you could lay over.

In any case I'll keep your generous offer in mind.

albertporter

Owner
Thank you Dan.   Come listen if you travel this way!

albertporter

Owner
I have not posted in awhile but must comment on the new Allnic M5000 mono block amps that are now reaching peak break in point.

These are the best amps I've ever heard, rock solid, extreme dynamics plus warmth, combined with resolution that continues to surprise each time I listen.

Part of this magic is the 5749 input tube and second stage 8233 (E55L).  The 8233 is a pentode tube (Magnoval 9-Pin)capable of driving efficient speakers it’s so powerful,  yet it's used to push the (8) KT150 tubes into territory where they perform like you have never heard them.

The M5000 is a CNC machined package that's beautifully crafted and hand built right down to the custom transformers that Allnic owner KS Park builds himself.

Last, this amp gives control much like top tier solid state, my 16" woofer has never punched like it has since this amp went into my system.  

My Focal speakers are 95DB efficient, so it's the M5000 overall design and execution that brings this new level of performance.  

I had enough power with my 200 and 250 watt amps but this is another animal and deserves credit for pushing the limits beyond what I thought was possible.

albertporter

Owner
It's happened to me,  more than once but never caused a problem other than inconvenience. 

I don’t know if this is power surge issue, JRiver or just the hard drive momentarily taking a few seconds to do it’s job, causing the playback software to fail.

It would be nice if the default on our DACs was mute when signal lost. 

I’m considering wiping my drive and restoring all the software.  It would take days to do but so many titles have been added and many that need to be removed.

albertporter

Owner
That's terrible.  I must admit I've never heard of anything like that.  My suspicion is the computer or Bricasti, the cable is just the messenger.

I remember one time my computer lost sync and a white noise came through the speakers, much like tuning off station on radio.  

My DAC and speakers had no problem with the sound nor did it harm anything.

Is that the kind of sound you refer to?

albertporter

Owner
Jeff,

It breaks in faster than earlier version Purist and faster (if memory serves) than my AQ Diamond.

Or maybe it's just so good out of the box that I quit listening for break in and started enjoying the improvement it brought to my digital.

Direct answer to your question, I think after the first 50 hours or so it's pretty much there.  I've had mine for many months and don't even think about it any longer.   Just punch up the software and listen.

Reminds me, I need to upgrade to this latest version JRiver.

albertporter

Owner
Swamp, great to hear from you. Glad you bought the Sony A6000 and it was a hit with your wife.

I love mine and actually use it more than my pro Nikon due to weight difference and the fact most people cannot use all the detail and image size the Sony produces.

I lost my mind a bit and opted for the Sony  Zeiss Vario Tessar, E  4/ 16-70. It’s a fantastic lens.   Sometimes it pulls off color and shading that resembles my old Hasselblad.  Of course Hasse was all Carl Ziess.

The only problem with the Zeiss lens is it’s in the light path of the build in Sony flash.  So if you must do fill light, it’s  back to the stock lens.

albertporter

Owner
Jeff,

Good for you, the new Purist 30th Anniversary is the best USB I’ve heard.  I even sold my Audioquest Diamond after hearing the 30th and I was a huge fan of the AQ Diamond USB.

There is a break in with the Purist but it sounds good right from the start.  Post back and let me know what you think.

albertporter

Owner
I've paid for a wanted ad but if anyone knows of a pair of Billy Bags Pro 24 amp stands for sale let me know.

They are one of the few that are 29“ ~ 30“ inches deep and rated for heavy weight.

albertporter

Owner
Received new Allnic M5000 Mono Blocks, short description is they are the best amps I’ve ever heard.   Lots of drive, contrast, very quiet, bass equal to my VTL 750 and resolution like ARC Ref 250 but with warmth.

I’ll take a photo soon, meanwhile I‘ll post a cell phone shot provided by the factory.  It’s a very nice design with attractive cosmetics (in my opinion).

albertporter

Owner
I found the two Eico about three months apart, both at Ebay.  Price was about $650.00 ea. making them more expensive than Dynaco or other popular amps of the day.

Mind you, I have not heard these yet, just going on faith, but at that price it's not a lot of risk and I can sell if I decide I have too many amp options.

My new "super" Allnic mono block amps will arrive next week, I am so excited I can hardly contain myself.   These are the first and only pair of the new design, I'll post images for everyone to see, once they arrive.

albertporter

Owner
Dan,

I have great respect for Tannoy, they are a company that takes the approach to music reproduction in their own way.   They do not  copy anyone nor do they worry about other designs.

Years ago when Ronnie was importer for Koetsu and I was covering one of the audio shows I stopped in to visit with him.  He had a nice analog rig playing along with an upper end Koetsu.

My impression right off was, OK, this is fine.  I sat down and talked with him about one thing and other and when I finally looked at my  watch 45 minutes had passed.    The Speakers were Tannoy and in spite of other rooms being “spectacular,” most did not tug at your heart or cause you to loose track of time like his rig.

Each of us has to decide what direction to take our system.  Some want ultimate resolution and some just want music to be enjoyable.  

Me, I’m all about getting the gear right but not if a decision keeps me from  playing a mix of material, much of which is far from perfect.

The Class D amps are interesting.   Mine are very clean, very lightweight and very powerful.   They don’t have textures and colors like tubes, tend to lead a bit in the bass and midrange and upper frequency notes sometimes seem cut off before they can say all they  had to say.    It’s part of the experience to listen to all this, great learning tools.

Still looking forward to the rebuilt Eico HF60s.   This will be the polar opposite of the class D.  Again, a learning curve you can only understand by being there with it.

albertporter

Owner
Thank you Dan, your kind words greatly appreciated.

I've owned some amazing amps over the years.  VTL 750, Tube Research GT400, Audio Research REF 250, Atma-Sphere MA2, Air Tight ATM-3, P280 M Wolcotts and Allnic M3000 to name but a few.

Each have a signature, some of these do things better than the others and some have special traits that endear to listener (depending on taste).  It’s amazing how many tube designs are available.

I love my Allnic M3000 and hope the new M5000 will have more contrast and push due to large power supply, increased output power and new design output transformer.  

On similar topic, my personal gear sometimes has to travel to customer or an  audio show,  leaving me begging guys in my group for a loaner.  

I have a solution coming soon and very excited to hear what it can do.   I bought two vintage 1950s Eico mono amps and having them rebuilt by Stu Remington.  He basically scrapes all the old parts and saves the (excellent) output transformer and rebuilds to new condition.

There are guys the absolutely love this amp, it only puts out 60 watts but for a fill in it will be a tube alternative to my Bel Canto e.One 600 class D amps.

This started when I borrowed Dynaco MK3 and old Heathkit from guys in my group.  The old amps don't have resolution like modern counterpoint but they do have special relaxed, musical presentation for not a lot of money. 

 I'll post as I listen and learn.

albertporter

Owner
Posting update after more than a month. 

I'm the most excited I’ve been in years, my new Allnic amp will be shipped in less than two weeks, hopefully later this coming week.   This is a totally new product that I had a hand in designing.

I must say I am very proud and it is absolutely beautiful and powerful.   Output 400  watts or more per channel,  100% aircraft grade (thick) aluminum CNC machined chassis.  A mono block design, more than 200 pounds per chassis.

I'm also considering the new 14" Kuzma tonearm and maybe the new Lyra low output cartridge.   I moved the Allnic H5000 lower in my equipment bay so there is now enough space for a Vibraplane to fit under it.   I will decide if I want to make that investment after new amps are in place.

The new Purist 30th Anniversary AC cords are fully broken in, much harder to get to 100% compared to 25th Anniversary but absolutely light years beyond anything I've ever owned or heard.   Yes, they are too expensive, but no other option once I heard them.

Last, I continue to be amazed by the cleaning power of the KL Audio with lab grade water but read with great interest about the new model from Audio Desk, the Pro.   Need to make a comparison  when time and funds permit.

albertporter

Owner
Added images and descriptions.

Ordered two more Purist 30th Anniversary to go on my Focal EM drive units. 

I’m close to moving out all my 25th Anniversary AC except for powering linear supplies to Mac Mini and Data Tale and the Technics MK3 motor control,

Still trying to decide if I’ll replace 25th with 30th on Studer A810.

albertporter

Owner
Added one of the new Purist 30th Anniversary USB cables and also the 30th Anniversary AC cable.   AC cable went on my phono.

It took about a week for me to figure out everything these new cables were doing.  I believe this new Purist may have unseated the Audioquest Diamond USB but will test more and report back.

The 30th Anniversary AC is stunning.  More detail and transparency without being bright or forward and very linear in it’s tonal balance from top to bottom.  Bass is especially improved, detail within detail rather than just “power” at bass frequencies.

I’ve ordered three more 30th AC, one for each amp and one for preamp.   I’ll be selling my latest revision 25th Luminist AC here at Audiogon soon.

albertporter

Owner
You mention below the recommendation that members take advantage of higher-res photos.  Can you be more specific in this regard as to how you are achieving that specifically with Agon?  Have you found a way to get past their current 5MB per photo upload limitation?  Thanks!

If you have a photo editing application you can compress image files so they are larger and easier to view but don’t exceed file size.

All of my images for the old Audiogon opened with lots of blank screen around them.   For example, the first four system images are the new larger files but stop and the Basis Turntable and other images that follow.

I will eventually change them all but it’s time consuming.

albertporter

Owner
What will the Bel Canto REF600M amps be running in your system? Any thoughts on these yet?

I bought as back up, sometimes I have to loan the M3000 for audition and I wanted something new and reliable.  I bought a pair of Dynaco MK3 off Ebay but they were not as described so I had to return.

I'm going to have a pair of Eico HF60 rebuilt as soon as  I can find a clean pair.

The Bel Canto is very clean and this new model does sound better than the previous 1000 Mono.   Neither will be mistaken for tubes but they do what they are supposed to do.

albertporter

Owner
Technics SP10 MK2 II is excellent and Peters plinths look nice.  The TTM mat is my favorite but there are countless options that will work.   Perhaps easier and a bit "warmer" sounding is the Micro Seiki CU-180.

A used Boston carbon fiber would be another option and if you have patience to track down a TTM I like it very much.   Don't forget the clamp or weight is almost as audible as the mat.   Some mat and weight combinations are not so good.   The TTM has a weight designed to go with it and I suggest you use them together if you go that way.

albertporter

Owner
I've been updating images to higher resolution.  Suggest other Audiogon members take advantage of this, makes viewing easier.

albertporter

Owner
I just completed photography for Purist Audio Design, new 30th Anniversary cables.    So far a new super USB and an AC cable.

I have not heard the 30th Anniversary AC but the 30th USB may become my new standard. 

I love the AudioQuest Diamond USB and a dozen other cables have gone against it, only to be defeated.   More testing is needed but it looks like it may fall to this new Purist.

albertporter

Owner
Added Bel Canto e.One Ref 600M mono blocks although they do not arrive until tomorrow (Tuesday 8th).

albertporter

Owner
The new Air Tight Opus continues to improve with hours, this is the most musically satisfying yet resolved cartridge I've ever heard.  

It and the Koetsu Coralstone are new to the system and both need time before they’re 100%,  but man is the Air Tight coming on strong.  Seems to improve with every LP.

Last night I played a Red Garland album, "Stepping Out," an album I've owned since it was released in 1981.   This is a great recording but with the Air Tight Opus the dynamics are just stunning and colors of the piano are superb.

Other people on this LP are Ron Carter, Kenny Burrell and Ben Riley.  A great one to search out if your a jazz fan.

albertporter

Owner
Did not intend to double post, glitch in Audiogon system.

albertporter

Owner
John, 

You’re welcome anytime.  Lots of upgrades since your last visit, I would love to get your input as to where the system is now.

The Air Tight Opus continues to improve with hours and I continue to work on the digital system as well.   I tried the iFi USB 3 plus Gemini cable and iPurifier with my Allnic D5000.  The results were clearly audible but overall a negative rather than positive so it’s gone now.

One of my friends dropped off the Audioquest Jitterbug and it was not as destructive to sound as the iFi but still a slight downgrade.   I still love the Audioquest Diamond USB after trying half a dozen highly recommended brands.   There is a new 30th Anniversary Purist USB prototype coming next week and I hope it will  (finally) be the USB that beats the AQ Diamond.

My Koetsu Coralstone has too few hours to be at peak performance but it’s so nice to have both it and the Air Tight Opus.   Both are excellent and deliver a different view of the recorded performance

albertporter

Owner
John, 

You’re welcome anytime.  Lots of upgrades since your last visit, I would love to get your input as to where the system is now.

The Air Tight Opus continues to improve with hours and I continue to work on the digital system as well.   I tried the iFi USB 3 plus Gemini cable and iPurifier with my Allnic D5000.  The results were clearly audible but overall a negative rather than positive so it’s gone now.

One of my friends dropped off the Audioquest Jitterbug and it was not as destructive to sound as the iFi but still a slight downgrade.   I still love the Audioquest Diamond USB after trying half a dozen highly recommended brands.   There is a new 30th Anniversary Purist USB prototype coming next week and I hope it will  (finally) be the USB that beats the AQ Diamond.

My Koetsu Coralstone has too few hours to be at peak performance but it’s so nice to have both it and the Air Tight Opus.   Both are excellent and deliver a different view of the recorded performance.

albertporter

Owner
Thank you John, well wishes deeply appreciated.

If travel brings you this way try to make one of our Tuesday night sessions, the system is up quite a bit from  your last visit and reading reports on your system it appears you have been upgrading as well.

The Opus might be right for you, your speakers are superb and would show the improved resolution with no problem.

albertporter

Owner
Steve,

I still have my Coralstone and love it.   The Air Tight Supreme has better bass than the Coralstone and great midrange.   The new Air Tight Opus is more like a cross between Air Tight Supreme and Lyra Atlas.

The Atlas is very fast and very detailed but the apparent resolution is via heightened brilliance and somewhat forward presentation which is not the same as deep, true resolution such as master tape.

If you love the Coralstone then the new Air Tight Opus might not be for you.  If you like the tonal balance of the Air Tight Supreme but wish for Lyra Atlas speed plus even better resolution, the new Opus will amaze you.

The Opus is true, deep resolution.  Resolution like I've never heard from any phono cartridge.  Makes me wonder why no one else ever reached this level. 

I find myself auditioning all my music over again, experiencing clarity of lyrics I’ve never heard and special effects that divulge exactly how it was done.  Even old favorites like Nirvana unplugged in New York, you hear talk among the band members that previously was thought to be unintelligible.

The Opus delivers this level of detail but also the same flawless, near perfect tonal balance of Air Tight that can only be described as musical.  Funny to include musical and high resolution in the same sentence but this cartridge pulled it off.

As I write this I have to remind myself that everything in the audio chain contributes to the choice and love for a particular product.

The Koetsu Coralstone that both of us love is another animal,  It's completely relaxed listening and does not try to go where Air Tight or Lyra go.  The Coralstone is very tame compared to either of these other two but it could easily win in a listening session.  All depends on room acoustics, cable, speakers and electronics.

albertporter

Owner
I seldom make snap decisions and even fewer times do I post comments when convinced my decision is worthy.   Today all that changed, I mounted the new Air Tight Magnum Opus (serial number 0003) and played about 10 LP sides from this afternoon late till we shut down at 10:30 PM.

This is a stunning cartridge, the highest resolution I’ve ever heard and boarding on my open reel machine.  Best of all, it‘s tonal balance is just a grand.  

When compared to other great cartridges I own or recently had, the Air Tight Magnum Opus is (much) higher resolution, faster, cleaner, tighter bass, (far) less distortion and rides the LP groove with less noise.

The only thing my Air Tight Supreme did that’s marginally better is the placement of the rear wall soundstage and total front to rear space.  

The Air Tight Supreme did not show best strength when it was brand new so I expect this new Magnum Opus will cross that final barrier to be the best cartridge ever.  At least for my taste.

albertporter

Owner
Mitch,

My understanding is the SE has a couple of small part changes but primary upgrade is that it ships with super matched set of KT-150 output tubes.

When my ARC got 600 hours I removed the factory KT-120 tubes and replaced with a set of curve traced KT-150s.  The KT-150 was stupendous upgrade for REF 250.   

I’ve had my ARC for about 2 years now and have another amp being built that I think will be the end all for my needs.   I can’t discuss it right now but it will be  released to the public first quarter 2016.

albertporter

Owner
I just  mailed a check for two Air Tight PC1 Opus MC cartridges.   If the rave reviews about their performance  is accurate, my Air Tight PC1 Supreme will  be for sale at Audiogon.

FedEx air shows Tuesday as deliver date.  I’m excited.

albertporter

Owner
Jeff,

Nothing wrong with ARC amps, I had excellent experience with them. 

I’m not going to CES this year, it seems less and less attendance in the high end part and certainly not like it once was.  

I still enjoy RMAF and THE Show Newport,  both allow audiophiles in to enjoy the music, not just dealers.  I may go to Munich show May 2016.

albertporter

Owner
Christian,

I just posted to Arnie’s system.  He too is a convert to the RCA CRC 5R4GY rectifier in the Allnic H5000l.   I need to get my pair installed and running, highly unlikely my choice will be different than you two.

Tonight was Tuesday night music and we had great sound.   We had a new visitor, Ben who is with Apple Computer.  He’s a family member of regular visitor Chris Owen who lives here in Dallas and attends fairly often.  

We share  wide musical taste and explored new LPs they brought for us to enjoy and gave me a list to search out:

Aphex twin - Syro
Nils Frahm
Hauschka
Sufjan Stevens
Autechre

albertporter

Owner
Yes, double bottom getters, US Military from 1940s.   Andy at Vintage had them with white box or original Military boxes with all data.   I bought the ones in original boxes.

It will be a few days before I can test.  Our son will arrive in a few days  to visit for the holidays and that's first priority :-).  I'm excited to see him, will be happy when his bride to be graduates and they can move back to DFW area.

albertporter

Owner
I found and purchased a matched pair of NOS RCA CRC from 1940s.   I want to try these since they work for you and will also try a few 5Y3 direct heat rectifiers that Allnic and Babybear (Arnie) likes.

There’s plenty of time to experiment, my system is stable except for breaking in the new Allnic 200 W monoblocks and some needed hours on the Koetsu Coralstone.

albertporter

Owner
Rockit,

Same for me,  I have just about every kind of rectifier except the WE you discovered. 

I agree with your comments about the Takatsuki 300B, a great investment for the Allnic H-5000 even at the extreme price.

albertporter

Owner
I'll go back and  try the RCA.  I want to demo a pair of WE 422A before I buy since I have so many rectifiers already.

albertporter

Owner
Rockit,

The new Allnic comes with KT-150 tubes,  power is about 200 WPC.   It‘s very powerful with my speakers.  Sounds about same headroom as the Audio Research REF 250.

No to small bottle Phillips for rectifiers. I’ve settled on the Valvo GZ -34 and still using Takatsuki 300B in that position.

albertporter

Owner
No, I saw that pair but resisted :-).  One member of my audio group is a tube hound, I’m hoping he has a pair of these I can try before I order a pair.

I just got a replacement pair of Allnic M-3000MK2 to replace the pair I let go to a good customer.    The few hours the  previous pair had made a lot of difference, I’m going to start tomorrow at 7:00 AM running music through them to get them up to speed.

I need to find a buyer for my black ARC REF 250 mono blocks, you don’t know anyone do you?

albertporter

Owner
Test,

Do Virtual Systems posts show in recent activity?

albertporter

Owner
ddriveman,

Sorry I did not see your comments until now.  I cannot get accustomed to this new format.

Tonight we tried the USB 3 iFi micro reclocker, the iFi Gemini twin head cable and iFi purifier 2.

Everyone seemed to prefer going from Mac Mini with AudioQuest Diamond USB into the Allnic D5000 DAC.   I plan on testing again when my Allnic amps arrive so I have reference sound again.

albertporter

Owner
I just ordered the new iFI iUSB3.0 + Dual headed USB cable and iFI Purifier 2.

I'll post results once I get a chance, excited to see if it works with my Allnic HDT DAC.

albertporter

Owner
Musicmann1
HI Albert. I noticed your SP10 MK3 Rosewood Table with STILLPOINTS ULTRA 5;S . Do you screw the ULTRA 5'S all the way so that they actually touch the bottom of the Rosewood PLINTH, or do you leave a little gap. If so, did you try it both ways and if so what was your take away?
I tried both ways and agree with Stillpoints recommendation to back the Ultra 5 away from bottom of turntable (or chassis) for best performance.

I should add, with Vibraplane the effect of the Ultra 5 is not as great. In my situation the Vibraplane is a requirement since my speakers are capable of such deep bass.

albertporter

Owner
Musicmann1
HI Albert. I noticed your SP10 MK3 Rosewood Table with STILLPOINTS ULTRA 5;S . Do you screw the ULTRA 5'S all the way so that they actually touch the bottom of the Rosewood PLINTH, or do you leave a little gap. If so, did you try it both ways and if so what was your take away?
I tried both ways and agree with Stillpoints recommendation to back the Ultra 5 away from bottom of turntable (or chassis) for best performance.

I should add, with Vibraplane the effect of the Ultra 5 is not as great. In my situation the Vibraplane is a requirement since my speakers are capable of such deep bass.

albertporter

Owner
Musicmann1
HI Albert. I noticed your SP10 MK3 Rosewood Table with STILLPOINTS ULTRA 5;S . Do you screw the ULTRA 5'S all the way so that they actually touch the bottom of the Rosewood PLINTH, or do you leave a little gap. If so, did you try it both ways and if so what was your take away?

I tried both ways and agree with Stillpoints recommendation to back the Ultra 5 away from bottom of turntable (or chassis) for best performance.

I should add, with Vibraplane the effect of the Ultra 5 is not as great. In my situation the Vibraplane is a requirement since my speakers are capable of such deep bass.

albertporter

Owner
System edited: Corrected description to reflect changes over the past few months

albertporter

Owner
Jwm
I have vacuum hold down for my table and have not found a record yet that I can not play.

I've owned at least three vacuum hold down tables and yes, they can play less than perfect LPs but a short warp record still stresses the cartridge and provides poor sound from the varying VTA.

Having the LP flat is a good thing regardless of how you play the record. I happen to have quite a few LPs that are less than perfect and high value, makes sense for me to correct.

albertporter

Owner
Jwm
I have vacuum hold down for my table and have not found a record yet that I can not play.

I've owned at least three vacuum hold down tables and yes, they can play less than perfect LPs but a short warp record still stresses the cartridge and provides poor sound from the varying VTA.

Having the LP flat is a good thing regardless of how you play the record. I happen to have quite a few LPs that are less than perfect and high value, makes sense for me to correct.

albertporter

Owner
Jwm
I have vacuum hold down for my table and have not found a record yet that I can not play.

I've owned at least three vacuum hold down tables and yes, they can play less than perfect LPs but a short warp record still stresses the cartridge and provides poor sound from the varying VTA.

Having the LP flat is a good thing regardless of how you play the record. I happen to have quite a few LPs that are less than perfect and high value, makes sense for me to correct.

albertporter

Owner
Jwm
I have vacuum hold down for my table and have not found a record yet that I can not play.

I've owned at least three vacuum hold down tables and yes, they can play less than perfect LPs but a short warp record still stresses the cartridge and provides poor sound from the varying VTA.

Having the LP flat is a good thing regardless of how you play the record. I happen to have quite a few LPs that are less than perfect and high value, makes sense for me to correct.

albertporter

Owner
Jwm
I have vacuum hold down for my table and have not found a record yet that I can not play.

I've owned at least three vacuum hold down tables and yes, they can play less than perfect LPs but a short warp record still stresses the cartridge and provides poor sound from the varying VTA.

Having the LP flat is a good thing regardless of how you play the record. I happen to have quite a few LPs that are less than perfect and high value, makes sense for me to correct.

albertporter

Owner
Jwm
I have vacuum hold down for my table and have not found a record yet that I can not play.

I've owned at least three vacuum hold down tables and yes, they can play less than perfect LPs but a short warp record still stresses the cartridge and provides poor sound from the varying VTA.

Having the LP flat is a good thing regardless of how you play the record. I happen to have quite a few LPs that are less than perfect and high value, makes sense for me to correct.

albertporter

Owner
Jwm,

It is expensive and if it does not please a large portion of the general public it will be short lived. Still, the technology is fascinating and worth sharing.

I have Sony as my fun camera unless it’s for work, then the Nikon D800 SLR.

Buy the cheaper camera and spend the rest on the record flattener :-)

albertporter

Owner
I’ve received a couple of email messages from Audiogon members about the ORB record flattener.

It works very well, instructions are in English and yes, it SPEAKS to you as you process LPs that are warped.

As I posted before, it repaired a badly warped French 12” single that would not play and a new ECM Jazz LP I purchased at Amazon.

Both corrected in one try with new ORB flattener and it is USA model, 120V with no need for transformer or tech shop intervention.

albertporter

Owner
System edited: Added description and image of ORB DF-03 Record Flattener

albertporter

Owner
I ordered and received a new top tier LP record flattener from Japan. The manufacturer is Orb and I bought the USA version of model DF-03.

This has a complete touch activated menu in English language and walks you though each step with voice prompts (again in English) and has ability to program based on type of LP.

It’s a true 120V version, no transformers, just plug in and save an LP. So far I’ve salvaged two LPs, one as warped as potato chip (would not play) and the other had a violent “short” warp that audibly distorted due to tracking and VTA errors.

I’ll put an image of the Orb DF-03 in my system equipment lineup within the hour.

albertporter

Owner
Zephyr24069, Thank you for the exchange and sharing info. This helps and I’ve gotten a couple of email messages about the OLED which will aid when the time comes to upgrade.

albertporter

Owner
Zephyr24069
Definitely agree that the games the providers play is maddening. At one point a few years ago, I actually had to get an attorney lined up and make my ISP (who is now serving us well in our new neighborhood) aware of the potential arrangement to get them to stop sending Level1 techs and subcontractors to the house who knew nothing and who only sought to test, re-test and test again the lines in my house and blame 'my equipment' or 'changes I had made" for issues in their lines that were exacerbated by heavy periods of rainfall.

I had similar issue with Time Warner and why I switched over to AT&T Uverse. In my case the amplifier in the alley would test OK but intermittent so my service dropped and I would call again.

At one point I had over 35 complaints in for loss of service. Finally a high level tech gave me his personal cell phone number and came out before the problem “fixed” itself. As a reward for all the lost time he removed the limiter and allowed me to operate at available speed, typically 95 MB down most of the time.

I wish these companies would compare cost of lost customers, down time and expense of sending trucks and service personnel against fiber. Fiber might wind up costing less and certainly most of us would pay more for perfect service.

albertporter

Owner
Zephyr24069
Definitely agree that the games the providers play is maddening. At one point a few years ago, I actually had to get an attorney lined up and make my ISP (who is now serving us well in our new neighborhood) aware of the potential arrangement to get them to stop sending Level1 techs and subcontractors to the house who knew nothing and who only sought to test, re-test and test again the lines in my house and blame 'my equipment' or 'changes I had made" for issues in their lines that were exacerbated by heavy periods of rainfall.

I had similar issue with Time Warner and why I switched over to AT&T Uverse. In my case the amplifier in the alley would test OK but intermittent so my service dropped and I would call again.

At one point I had over 35 complaints in for loss of service. Finally a high level tech gave me his personal cell phone number and came out before the problem “fixed” itself. As a reward for all the lost time he removed the limiter and allowed me to operate at available speed, typically 95 MB down most of the time.

I wish these companies would compare cost of lost customers, down time and expense of sending trucks and service personnel against fiber. Fiber might wind up costing less and certainly most of us would pay more for perfect service.

albertporter

Owner
Zephyr24069
Definitely agree that the games the providers play is maddening. At one point a few years ago, I actually had to get an attorney lined up and make my ISP (who is now serving us well in our new neighborhood) aware of the potential arrangement to get them to stop sending Level1 techs and subcontractors to the house who knew nothing and who only sought to test, re-test and test again the lines in my house and blame 'my equipment' or 'changes I had made" for issues in their lines that were exacerbated by heavy periods of rainfall.

I had similar issue with Time Warner and why I switched over to AT&T Uverse. In my case the amplifier in the alley would test OK but intermittent so my service dropped and I would call again.

At one point I had over 35 complaints in for loss of service. Finally a high level tech gave me his personal cell phone number and came out before the problem “fixed” itself. As a reward for all the lost time he removed the limiter and allowed me to operate at available speed, typically 95 MB down most of the time.

I wish these companies would compare cost of lost customers, down time and expense of sending trucks and service personnel against fiber. Fiber might wind up costing less and certainly most of us would pay more for perfect service.

albertporter

Owner
Zephyr24069
Definitely agree that the games the providers play is maddening. At one point a few years ago, I actually had to get an attorney lined up and make my ISP (who is now serving us well in our new neighborhood) aware of the potential arrangement to get them to stop sending Level1 techs and subcontractors to the house who knew nothing and who only sought to test, re-test and test again the lines in my house and blame 'my equipment' or 'changes I had made" for issues in their lines that were exacerbated by heavy periods of rainfall.

I had similar issue with Time Warner and why I switched over to AT&T Uverse. In my case the amplifier in the alley would test OK but intermittent so my service dropped and I would call again.

At one point I had over 35 complaints in for loss of service. Finally a high level tech gave me his personal cell phone number and came out before the problem “fixed” itself. As a reward for all the lost time he removed the limiter and allowed me to operate at available speed, typically 95 MB down most of the time.

I wish these companies would compare cost of lost customers, down time and expense of sending trucks and service personnel against fiber. Fiber might wind up costing less and certainly most of us would pay more for perfect service.

albertporter

Owner
Zephyr24069
Definitely agree that the games the providers play is maddening. At one point a few years ago, I actually had to get an attorney lined up and make my ISP (who is now serving us well in our new neighborhood) aware of the potential arrangement to get them to stop sending Level1 techs and subcontractors to the house who knew nothing and who only sought to test, re-test and test again the lines in my house and blame 'my equipment' or 'changes I had made" for issues in their lines that were exacerbated by heavy periods of rainfall.

I had similar issue with Time Warner and why I switched over to AT&T Uverse. In my case the amplifier in the alley would test OK but intermittent so my service dropped and I would call again.

At one point I had over 35 complaints in for loss of service. Finally a high level tech gave me his personal cell phone number and came out before the problem “fixed” itself. As a reward for all the lost time he removed the limiter and allowed me to operate at available speed, typically 95 MB down most of the time.

I wish these companies would compare cost of lost customers, down time and expense of sending trucks and service personnel against fiber. Fiber might wind up costing less and certainly most of us would pay more for perfect service.

albertporter

Owner
Zephyr24069
Definitely agree that the games the providers play is maddening. At one point a few years ago, I actually had to get an attorney lined up and make my ISP (who is now serving us well in our new neighborhood) aware of the potential arrangement to get them to stop sending Level1 techs and subcontractors to the house who knew nothing and who only sought to test, re-test and test again the lines in my house and blame 'my equipment' or 'changes I had made" for issues in their lines that were exacerbated by heavy periods of rainfall.

I had similar issue with Time Warner and why I switched over to AT&T Uverse. In my case the amplifier in the alley would test OK but intermittent so my service dropped and I would call again.

At one point I had over 35 complaints in for loss of service. Finally a high level tech gave me his personal cell phone number and came out before the problem “fixed” itself. As a reward for all the lost time he removed the limiter and allowed me to operate at available speed, typically 95 MB down most of the time.

I wish these companies would compare cost of lost customers, down time and expense of sending trucks and service personnel against fiber. Fiber might wind up costing less and certainly most of us would pay more for perfect service.

albertporter

Owner
Zephyr24069
Definitely agree that the games the providers play is maddening. At one point a few years ago, I actually had to get an attorney lined up and make my ISP (who is now serving us well in our new neighborhood) aware of the potential arrangement to get them to stop sending Level1 techs and subcontractors to the house who knew nothing and who only sought to test, re-test and test again the lines in my house and blame 'my equipment' or 'changes I had made" for issues in their lines that were exacerbated by heavy periods of rainfall.

I had similar issue with Time Warner and why I switched over to AT&T Uverse. In my case the amplifier in the alley would test OK but intermittent so my service dropped and I would call again.

At one point I had over 35 complaints in for loss of service. Finally a high level tech gave me his personal cell phone number and came out before the problem “fixed” itself. As a reward for all the lost time he removed the limiter and allowed me to operate at available speed, typically 95 MB down most of the time.

I wish these companies would compare cost of lost customers, down time and expense of sending trucks and service personnel against fiber. Fiber might wind up costing less and certainly most of us would pay more for perfect service.

albertporter

Owner
Zephyr24069
Definitely agree that the games the providers play is maddening. At one point a few years ago, I actually had to get an attorney lined up and make my ISP (who is now serving us well in our new neighborhood) aware of the potential arrangement to get them to stop sending Level1 techs and subcontractors to the house who knew nothing and who only sought to test, re-test and test again the lines in my house and blame 'my equipment' or 'changes I had made" for issues in their lines that were exacerbated by heavy periods of rainfall.

I had similar issue with Time Warner and why I switched over to AT&T Uverse. In my case the amplifier in the alley would test OK but intermittent so my service dropped and I would call again.

At one point I had over 35 complaints in for loss of service. Finally a high level tech gave me his personal cell phone number and came out before the problem “fixed” itself. As a reward for all the lost time he removed the limiter and allowed me to operate at available speed, typically 95 MB down most of the time.

I wish these companies would compare cost of lost customers, down time and expense of sending trucks and service personnel against fiber. Fiber might wind up costing less and certainly most of us would pay more for perfect service.

albertporter

Owner
Zephyr24069
Definitely agree that the games the providers play is maddening. At one point a few years ago, I actually had to get an attorney lined up and make my ISP (who is now serving us well in our new neighborhood) aware of the potential arrangement to get them to stop sending Level1 techs and subcontractors to the house who knew nothing and who only sought to test, re-test and test again the lines in my house and blame 'my equipment' or 'changes I had made" for issues in their lines that were exacerbated by heavy periods of rainfall.

I had similar issue with Time Warner and why I switched over to AT&T Uverse. In my case the amplifier in the alley would test OK but intermittent so my service dropped and I would call again.

At one point I had over 35 complaints in for loss of service. Finally a high level tech gave me his personal cell phone number and came out before the problem “fixed” itself. As a reward for all the lost time he removed the limiter and allowed me to operate at available speed, typically 95 MB down most of the time.

I wish these companies would compare cost of lost customers, down time and expense of sending trucks and service personnel against fiber. Fiber might wind up costing less and certainly most of us would pay more for perfect service.

albertporter

Owner
Zephyr24069
Definitely agree that the games the providers play is maddening. At one point a few years ago, I actually had to get an attorney lined up and make my ISP (who is now serving us well in our new neighborhood) aware of the potential arrangement to get them to stop sending Level1 techs and subcontractors to the house who knew nothing and who only sought to test, re-test and test again the lines in my house and blame 'my equipment' or 'changes I had made" for issues in their lines that were exacerbated by heavy periods of rainfall.

I had similar issue with Time Warner and why I switched over to AT&T Uverse. In my case the amplifier in the alley would test OK but intermittent so my service dropped and I would call again.

At one point I had over 35 complaints in for loss of service. Finally a high level tech gave me his personal cell phone number and came out before the problem “fixed” itself. As a reward for all the lost time he removed the limiter and allowed me to operate at available speed, typically 95 MB down most of the time.

I wish these companies would compare cost of lost customers, down time and expense of sending trucks and service personnel against fiber. Fiber might wind up costing less and certainly most of us would pay more for perfect service.

albertporter

Owner
Zephyr24069
Definitely agree that the games the providers play is maddening. At one point a few years ago, I actually had to get an attorney lined up and make my ISP (who is now serving us well in our new neighborhood) aware of the potential arrangement to get them to stop sending Level1 techs and subcontractors to the house who knew nothing and who only sought to test, re-test and test again the lines in my house and blame 'my equipment' or 'changes I had made" for issues in their lines that were exacerbated by heavy periods of rainfall.

I had similar issue with Time Warner and why I switched over to AT&T Uverse. In my case the amplifier in the alley would test OK but intermittent so my service dropped and I would call again.

At one point I had over 35 complaints in for loss of service. Finally a high level tech gave me his personal cell phone number and came out before the problem “fixed” itself. As a reward for all the lost time he removed the limiter and allowed me to operate at available speed, typically 95 MB down most of the time.

I wish these companies would compare cost of lost customers, down time and expense of sending trucks and service personnel against fiber. Fiber might wind up costing less and certainly most of us would pay more for perfect service.

albertporter

Owner
Zephyr24069
Definitely agree that the games the providers play is maddening. At one point a few years ago, I actually had to get an attorney lined up and make my ISP (who is now serving us well in our new neighborhood) aware of the potential arrangement to get them to stop sending Level1 techs and subcontractors to the house who knew nothing and who only sought to test, re-test and test again the lines in my house and blame 'my equipment' or 'changes I had made" for issues in their lines that were exacerbated by heavy periods of rainfall.

I had similar issue with Time Warner and why I switched over to AT&T Uverse. In my case the amplifier in the alley would test OK but intermittent so my service dropped and I would call again.

At one point I had over 35 complaints in for loss of service. Finally a high level tech gave me his personal cell phone number and came out before the problem “fixed” itself. As a reward for all the lost time he removed the limiter and allowed me to operate at available speed, typically 95 MB down most of the time.

I wish these companies would compare cost of lost customers, down time and expense of sending trucks and service personnel against fiber. Fiber might wind up costing less and certainly most of us would pay more for perfect service.

albertporter

Owner
Zephyr24069
Definitely agree that the games the providers play is maddening. At one point a few years ago, I actually had to get an attorney lined up and make my ISP (who is now serving us well in our new neighborhood) aware of the potential arrangement to get them to stop sending Level1 techs and subcontractors to the house who knew nothing and who only sought to test, re-test and test again the lines in my house and blame 'my equipment' or 'changes I had made" for issues in their lines that were exacerbated by heavy periods of rainfall.

I had similar issue with Time Warner and why I switched over to AT&T Uverse. In my case the amplifier in the alley would test OK but intermittent so my service dropped and I would call again.

At one point I had over 35 complaints in for loss of service. Finally a high level tech gave me his personal cell phone number and came out before the problem “fixed” itself. As a reward for all the lost time he removed the limiter and allowed me to operate at available speed, typically 95 MB down most of the time.

I wish these companies would compare cost of lost customers, down time and expense of sending trucks and service personnel against fiber. Fiber might wind up costing less and certainly most of us would pay more for perfect service.

albertporter

Owner
Zephyr24069
Definitely agree that the games the providers play is maddening. At one point a few years ago, I actually had to get an attorney lined up and make my ISP (who is now serving us well in our new neighborhood) aware of the potential arrangement to get them to stop sending Level1 techs and subcontractors to the house who knew nothing and who only sought to test, re-test and test again the lines in my house and blame 'my equipment' or 'changes I had made" for issues in their lines that were exacerbated by heavy periods of rainfall.

I had similar issue with Time Warner and why I switched over to AT&T Uverse. In my case the amplifier in the alley would test OK but intermittent so my service dropped and I would call again.

At one point I had over 35 complaints in for loss of service. Finally a high level tech gave me his personal cell phone number and came out before the problem “fixed” itself. As a reward for all the lost time he removed the limiter and allowed me to operate at available speed, typically 95 MB down most of the time.

I wish these companies would compare cost of lost customers, down time and expense of sending trucks and service personnel against fiber. Fiber might wind up costing less and certainly most of us would pay more for perfect service.

albertporter

Owner
Zephyr24069
Definitely agree that the games the providers play is maddening. At one point a few years ago, I actually had to get an attorney lined up and make my ISP (who is now serving us well in our new neighborhood) aware of the potential arrangement to get them to stop sending Level1 techs and subcontractors to the house who knew nothing and who only sought to test, re-test and test again the lines in my house and blame 'my equipment' or 'changes I had made" for issues in their lines that were exacerbated by heavy periods of rainfall.

I had similar issue with Time Warner and why I switched over to AT&T Uverse. In my case the amplifier in the alley would test OK but intermittent so my service dropped and I would call again.

At one point I had over 35 complaints in for loss of service. Finally a high level tech gave me his personal cell phone number and came out before the problem “fixed” itself. As a reward for all the lost time he removed the limiter and allowed me to operate at available speed, typically 95 MB down most of the time.

I wish these companies would compare cost of lost customers, down time and expense of sending trucks and service personnel against fiber. Fiber might wind up costing less and certainly most of us would pay more for perfect service.

albertporter

Owner
Zephyr24069
My DOCSIS v3 cable modem does not provide a Wireless Router function so I have it hard-wired to my Netgear X6. If the ISP router supplied in the your install has a WiFi router function then you'll need to evaluate which is the faster of the 2 and run only that one (IMHO)

Thanks, I did that once before with internet provider wireless router and a Mac Airport Extreme.

When you say your Oppo 105D had to be replaced, was that a wireless problem or Netflix problem that might apply to my Oppo?

albertporter

Owner
Zephyr24069
My DOCSIS v3 cable modem does not provide a Wireless Router function so I have it hard-wired to my Netgear X6. If the ISP router supplied in the your install has a WiFi router function then you'll need to evaluate which is the faster of the 2 and run only that one (IMHO)

Thanks, I did that once before with internet provider wireless router and a Mac Airport Extreme.

When you say your Oppo 105D had to be replaced, was that a wireless problem or Netflix problem that might apply to my Oppo?

albertporter

Owner
Zephyr24069
My DOCSIS v3 cable modem does not provide a Wireless Router function so I have it hard-wired to my Netgear X6. If the ISP router supplied in the your install has a WiFi router function then you'll need to evaluate which is the faster of the 2 and run only that one (IMHO)

Thanks, I did that once before with internet provider wireless router and a Mac Airport Extreme.

When you say your Oppo 105D had to be replaced, was that a wireless problem or Netflix problem that might apply to my Oppo?

albertporter

Owner
Zephyr24069
My DOCSIS v3 cable modem does not provide a Wireless Router function so I have it hard-wired to my Netgear X6. If the ISP router supplied in the your install has a WiFi router function then you'll need to evaluate which is the faster of the 2 and run only that one (IMHO)

Thanks, I did that once before with internet provider wireless router and a Mac Airport Extreme.

When you say your Oppo 105D had to be replaced, was that a wireless problem or Netflix problem that might apply to my Oppo?

albertporter

Owner
Zephyr24069
My DOCSIS v3 cable modem does not provide a Wireless Router function so I have it hard-wired to my Netgear X6. If the ISP router supplied in the your install has a WiFi router function then you'll need to evaluate which is the faster of the 2 and run only that one (IMHO)

Thanks, I did that once before with internet provider wireless router and a Mac Airport Extreme.

When you say your Oppo 105D had to be replaced, was that a wireless problem or Netflix problem that might apply to my Oppo?

albertporter

Owner
Zephyr24069
My DOCSIS v3 cable modem does not provide a Wireless Router function so I have it hard-wired to my Netgear X6. If the ISP router supplied in the your install has a WiFi router function then you'll need to evaluate which is the faster of the 2 and run only that one (IMHO)

Thanks, I did that once before with internet provider wireless router and a Mac Airport Extreme.

When you say your Oppo 105D had to be replaced, was that a wireless problem or Netflix problem that might apply to my Oppo?

albertporter

Owner
Zephyr24069
My DOCSIS v3 cable modem does not provide a Wireless Router function so I have it hard-wired to my Netgear X6. If the ISP router supplied in the your install has a WiFi router function then you'll need to evaluate which is the faster of the 2 and run only that one (IMHO)

Thanks, I did that once before with internet provider wireless router and a Mac Airport Extreme.

When you say your Oppo 105D had to be replaced, was that a wireless problem or Netflix problem that might apply to my Oppo?

albertporter

Owner
Zephyr24069
My DOCSIS v3 cable modem does not provide a Wireless Router function so I have it hard-wired to my Netgear X6. If the ISP router supplied in the your install has a WiFi router function then you'll need to evaluate which is the faster of the 2 and run only that one (IMHO)

Thanks, I did that once before with internet provider wireless router and a Mac Airport Extreme.

When you say your Oppo 105D had to be replaced, was that a wireless problem or Netflix problem that might apply to my Oppo?

albertporter

Owner
Zephyr24069
My DOCSIS v3 cable modem does not provide a Wireless Router function so I have it hard-wired to my Netgear X6. If the ISP router supplied in the your install has a WiFi router function then you'll need to evaluate which is the faster of the 2 and run only that one (IMHO)

Thanks, I did that once before with internet provider wireless router and a Mac Airport Extreme.

When you say your Oppo 105D had to be replaced, was that a wireless problem or Netflix problem that might apply to my Oppo?

albertporter

Owner
Zephyr24069
My DOCSIS v3 cable modem does not provide a Wireless Router function so I have it hard-wired to my Netgear X6. If the ISP router supplied in the your install has a WiFi router function then you'll need to evaluate which is the faster of the 2 and run only that one (IMHO)

Thanks, I did that once before with internet provider wireless router and a Mac Airport Extreme.

When you say your Oppo 105D had to be replaced, was that a wireless problem or Netflix problem that might apply to my Oppo?

albertporter

Owner
Zephyr24069
My DOCSIS v3 cable modem does not provide a Wireless Router function so I have it hard-wired to my Netgear X6. If the ISP router supplied in the your install has a WiFi router function then you'll need to evaluate which is the faster of the 2 and run only that one (IMHO)

Thanks, I did that once before with internet provider wireless router and a Mac Airport Extreme.

When you say your Oppo 105D had to be replaced, was that a wireless problem or Netflix problem that might apply to my Oppo?

albertporter

Owner
Zephyr24069
My DOCSIS v3 cable modem does not provide a Wireless Router function so I have it hard-wired to my Netgear X6. If the ISP router supplied in the your install has a WiFi router function then you'll need to evaluate which is the faster of the 2 and run only that one (IMHO)

Thanks, I did that once before with internet provider wireless router and a Mac Airport Extreme.

When you say your Oppo 105D had to be replaced, was that a wireless problem or Netflix problem that might apply to my Oppo?

albertporter

Owner
Zephyr24069
My DOCSIS v3 cable modem does not provide a Wireless Router function so I have it hard-wired to my Netgear X6. If the ISP router supplied in the your install has a WiFi router function then you'll need to evaluate which is the faster of the 2 and run only that one (IMHO)

Thanks, I did that once before with internet provider wireless router and a Mac Airport Extreme.

When you say your Oppo 105D had to be replaced, was that a wireless problem or Netflix problem that might apply to my Oppo?

albertporter

Owner
Zephyr24069
My DOCSIS v3 cable modem does not provide a Wireless Router function so I have it hard-wired to my Netgear X6. If the ISP router supplied in the your install has a WiFi router function then you'll need to evaluate which is the faster of the 2 and run only that one (IMHO)

Thanks, I did that once before with internet provider wireless router and a Mac Airport Extreme.

When you say your Oppo 105D had to be replaced, was that a wireless problem or Netflix problem that might apply to my Oppo?

albertporter

Owner
Zephyr24069
My DOCSIS v3 cable modem does not provide a Wireless Router function so I have it hard-wired to my Netgear X6. If the ISP router supplied in the your install has a WiFi router function then you'll need to evaluate which is the faster of the 2 and run only that one (IMHO)

Thanks, I did that once before with internet provider wireless router and a Mac Airport Extreme.

When you say your Oppo 105D had to be replaced, was that a wireless problem or Netflix problem that might apply to my Oppo?

albertporter

Owner
Zephyr24069
Ah...Google Fiber; we all can dream! Definitely check out the X6 and now the X7.
Do you run wireless simultaneity from service provider router and the X6?

That’s interesting info about Netflix, I assumed it was AT&T throttling or Netflix server issues. I have the same problem regardless if Oppo BDP-105D is connected to Netflix or the newer Amazon Fire TV.

The Oppo has current updates and Amazon Fire also shows no downloads needed. The Netflix problem is less now than two months ago when I had 29 MB down with AT&T. I was very close to cancelling and called AT&T and told them.

They said faster 45 MB service was available and for less money. The games these providers play is maddening.

albertporter

Owner
Zephyr24069
Ah...Google Fiber; we all can dream! Definitely check out the X6 and now the X7.

Do you run wireless simultaneity from service provider router and the X6?

That’s interesting info about Netflix, I assumed it was AT&T throttling or Netflix server issues. I have the same problem regardless if Oppo BDP-105D is connected to Netflix or the newer Amazon Fire TV.

The Oppo has current updates and Amazon Fire also shows no downloads needed. The Netflix problem is less now than two months ago when I had 29 MB down with AT&T. I was very close to cancelling and called AT&T and told them.

They said faster 45 MB service was available and for less money. The games these providers play is maddening.

albertporter

Owner
Zephyr24069
Ah...Google Fiber; we all can dream! Definitely check out the X6 and now the X7.
Do you run wireless simultaneity from service provider router and the X6?

That’s interesting info about Netflix, I assumed it was AT&T throttling or Netflix server issues. I have the same problem regardless if Oppo BDP-105D is connected to Netflix or the newer Amazon Fire TV.

The Oppo has current updates and Amazon Fire also shows no downloads needed. The Netflix problem is less now than two months ago when I had 29 MB down with AT&T. I was very close to cancelling and called AT&T and told them.

They said faster 45 MB service was available and for less money. The games these providers play is maddening.

albertporter

Owner
Zephyr24069
Ah...Google Fiber; we all can dream! Definitely check out the X6 and now the X7.
Do you run wireless simultaneity from service provider router and the X6?

That’s interesting info about Netflix, I assumed it was AT&T throttling or Netflix server issues. I have the same problem regardless if Oppo BDP-105D is connected to Netflix or the newer Amazon Fire TV.

The Oppo has current updates and Amazon Fire also shows no downloads needed. The Netflix problem is less now than two months ago when I had 29 MB down with AT&T. I was very close to cancelling and called AT&T and told them.

They said faster 45 MB service was available and for less money. The games these providers play is maddening.

albertporter

Owner
Zephyr24069
Ah...Google Fiber; we all can dream! Definitely check out the X6 and now the X7.
Do you run wireless simultaneity from service provider router and the X6?

That’s interesting info about Netflix, I assumed it was AT&T throttling or Netflix server issues. I have the same problem regardless if Oppo BDP-105D is connected to Netflix or the newer Amazon Fire TV.

The Oppo has current updates and Amazon Fire also shows no downloads needed. The Netflix problem is less now than two months ago when I had 29 MB down with AT&T. I was very close to cancelling and called AT&T and told them.

They said faster 45 MB service was available and for less money. The games these providers play is maddening.

albertporter

Owner
Zephyr24069
Ah...Google Fiber; we all can dream! Definitely check out the X6 and now the X7.
Do you run wireless simultaneity from service provider router and the X6?

That’s interesting info about Netflix, I assumed it was AT&T throttling or Netflix server issues. I have the same problem regardless if Oppo BDP-105D is connected to Netflix or the newer Amazon Fire TV.

The Oppo has current updates and Amazon Fire also shows no downloads needed. The Netflix problem is less now than two months ago when I had 29 MB down with AT&T. I was very close to cancelling and called AT&T and told them.

They said faster 45 MB service was available and for less money. The games these providers play is maddening.

albertporter

Owner
Zephyr24069
Ah...Google Fiber; we all can dream! Definitely check out the X6 and now the X7.
Do you run wireless simultaneity from service provider router and the X6?

That’s interesting info about Netflix, I assumed it was AT&T throttling or Netflix server issues. I have the same problem regardless if Oppo BDP-105D is connected to Netflix or the newer Amazon Fire TV.

The Oppo has current updates and Amazon Fire also shows no downloads needed. The Netflix problem is less now than two months ago when I had 29 MB down with AT&T. I was very close to cancelling and called AT&T and told them.

They said faster 45 MB service was available and for less money. The games these providers play is maddening.

albertporter

Owner
Zephyr24069
Ah...Google Fiber; we all can dream! Definitely check out the X6 and now the X7.
Do you run wireless simultaneity from service provider router and the X6?

That’s interesting info about Netflix, I assumed it was AT&T throttling or Netflix server issues. I have the same problem regardless if Oppo BDP-105D is connected to Netflix or the newer Amazon Fire TV.

The Oppo has current updates and Amazon Fire also shows no downloads needed. The Netflix problem is less now than two months ago when I had 29 MB down with AT&T. I was very close to cancelling and called AT&T and told them.

They said faster 45 MB service was available and for less money. The games these providers play is maddening.

albertporter

Owner
Zephyr24069
Ah...Google Fiber; we all can dream! Definitely check out the X6 and now the X7.
Do you run wireless simultaneity from service provider router and the X6?

That’s interesting info about Netflix, I assumed it was AT&T throttling or Netflix server issues. I have the same problem regardless if Oppo BDP-105D is connected to Netflix or the newer Amazon Fire TV.

The Oppo has current updates and Amazon Fire also shows no downloads needed. The Netflix problem is less now than two months ago when I had 29 MB down with AT&T. I was very close to cancelling and called AT&T and told them.

They said faster 45 MB service was available and for less money. The games these providers play is maddening.

albertporter

Owner
Zephyr24069
Ah...Google Fiber; we all can dream! Definitely check out the X6 and now the X7.
Do you run wireless simultaneity from service provider router and the X6?

That’s interesting info about Netflix, I assumed it was AT&T throttling or Netflix server issues. I have the same problem regardless if Oppo BDP-105D is connected to Netflix or the newer Amazon Fire TV.

The Oppo has current updates and Amazon Fire also shows no downloads needed. The Netflix problem is less now than two months ago when I had 29 MB down with AT&T. I was very close to cancelling and called AT&T and told them.

They said faster 45 MB service was available and for less money. The games these providers play is maddening.

albertporter

Owner
Zephyr24069
Ah...Google Fiber; we all can dream! Definitely check out the X6 and now the X7.
Do you run wireless simultaneity from service provider router and the X6?

That’s interesting info about Netflix, I assumed it was AT&T throttling or Netflix server issues. I have the same problem regardless if Oppo BDP-105D is connected to Netflix or the newer Amazon Fire TV.

The Oppo has current updates and Amazon Fire also shows no downloads needed. The Netflix problem is less now than two months ago when I had 29 MB down with AT&T. I was very close to cancelling and called AT&T and told them.

They said faster 45 MB service was available and for less money. The games these providers play is maddening.

albertporter

Owner
Zephyr24069
Ah...Google Fiber; we all can dream! Definitely check out the X6 and now the X7.
Do you run wireless simultaneity from service provider router and the X6?

That’s interesting info about Netflix, I assumed it was AT&T throttling or Netflix server issues. I have the same problem regardless if Oppo BDP-105D is connected to Netflix or the newer Amazon Fire TV.

The Oppo has current updates and Amazon Fire also shows no downloads needed. The Netflix problem is less now than two months ago when I had 29 MB down with AT&T. I was very close to cancelling and called AT&T and told them.

They said faster 45 MB service was available and for less money. The games these providers play is maddening.

albertporter

Owner
Zephyr24069
Ah...Google Fiber; we all can dream! Definitely check out the X6 and now the X7.
Do you run wireless simultaneity from service provider router and the X6?

That’s interesting info about Netflix, I assumed it was AT&T throttling or Netflix server issues. I have the same problem regardless if Oppo BDP-105D is connected to Netflix or the newer Amazon Fire TV.

The Oppo has current updates and Amazon Fire also shows no downloads needed. The Netflix problem is less now than two months ago when I had 29 MB down with AT&T. I was very close to cancelling and called AT&T and told them.

They said faster 45 MB service was available and for less money. The games these providers play is maddening.

albertporter

Owner
Zephyr24069
Ah...Google Fiber; we all can dream! Definitely check out the X6 and now the X7.
Do you run wireless simultaneity from service provider router and the X6?

That’s interesting info about Netflix, I assumed it was AT&T throttling or Netflix server issues. I have the same problem regardless if Oppo BDP-105D is connected to Netflix or the newer Amazon Fire TV.

The Oppo has current updates and Amazon Fire also shows no downloads needed. The Netflix problem is less now than two months ago when I had 29 MB down with AT&T. I was very close to cancelling and called AT&T and told them.

They said faster 45 MB service was available and for less money. The games these providers play is maddening.

albertporter

Owner
Zephyr24069
Ah...Google Fiber; we all can dream! Definitely check out the X6 and now the X7.
Do you run wireless simultaneity from service provider router and the X6?

That’s interesting info about Netflix, I assumed it was AT&T throttling or Netflix server issues. I have the same problem regardless if Oppo BDP-105D is connected to Netflix or the newer Amazon Fire TV.

The Oppo has current updates and Amazon Fire also shows no downloads needed. The Netflix problem is less now than two months ago when I had 29 MB down with AT&T. I was very close to cancelling and called AT&T and told them.

They said faster 45 MB service was available and for less money. The games these providers play is maddening.

albertporter

Owner
Zephyr24069
Ah...Google Fiber; we all can dream! Definitely check out the X6 and now the X7.
Do you run wireless simultaneity from service provider router and the X6?

That’s interesting info about Netflix, I assumed it was AT&T throttling or Netflix server issues. I have the same problem regardless if Oppo BDP-105D is connected to Netflix or the newer Amazon Fire TV.

The Oppo has current updates and Amazon Fire also shows no downloads needed. The Netflix problem is less now than two months ago when I had 29 MB down with AT&T. I was very close to cancelling and called AT&T and told them.

They said faster 45 MB service was available and for less money. The games these providers play is maddening.

albertporter

Owner
Zephyr24069
Ah...Google Fiber; we all can dream! Definitely check out the X6 and now the X7.
Do you run wireless simultaneity from service provider router and the X6?

That’s interesting info about Netflix, I assumed it was AT&T throttling or Netflix server issues. I have the same problem regardless if Oppo BDP-105D is connected to Netflix or the newer Amazon Fire TV.

The Oppo has current updates and Amazon Fire also shows no downloads needed. The Netflix problem is less now than two months ago when I had 29 MB down with AT&T. I was very close to cancelling and called AT&T and told them.

They said faster 45 MB service was available and for less money. The games these providers play is maddening.

albertporter

Owner
Zephyr24069

We have Charter here delivering 60MB on download which surprisingly measures higher than that using speedtest.net repeatedly even during peak periods.
I wish I had option for a more reliable provider. We have AT&T DSL and 45 Meg down is top speed available based on distance from our home to fiber optic node in our neighborhood.

Time Warner promises they are much faster but I don’t know if they have straightened out their reliability issues I experienced some years ago.

Similarly good results for Oppo 105D (own one as well) for Netflix and other apps which has proven stable and reliable on the Charter link.
I’m using Ethernet with my Oppo and Amazon Fire TV and still occasionally have issues with Netflix stutter and catch up.

The Netgear X6 I wrote about above is the first that lets me have the full bandwidth of the incoming cable line actually passed on to any WiFi-connected device. Expect the X7 router from Netgear capable of the same.

As far as DSL services, I have avoided them, as a matter of preference and capability. Here's two interesting links on DSL types

I may look into that Netgear, reads like it’s the ultimate wireless option. Right now I’m on the fence as to if I’ll keep my AT&T service. AT&T now own DirecTV and continue to raise prices while offering same channel lineup and moderate internet speed. In my dreams Google Fiber would come to our area and solve all these problems. So far appers only Austin and San Antonio here in Texas.

albertporter

Owner
Zephyr24069

We have Charter here delivering 60MB on download which surprisingly measures higher than that using speedtest.net repeatedly even during peak periods.
I wish I had option for a more reliable provider. We have AT&T DSL and 45 Meg down is top speed available based on distance from our home to fiber optic node in our neighborhood.

Time Warner promises they are much faster but I don’t know if they have straightened out their reliability issues I experienced some years ago.

Similarly good results for Oppo 105D (own one as well) for Netflix and other apps which has proven stable and reliable on the Charter link.
I’m using Ethernet with my Oppo and Amazon Fire TV and still occasionally have issues with Netflix stutter and catch up.

The Netgear X6 I wrote about above is the first that lets me have the full bandwidth of the incoming cable line actually passed on to any WiFi-connected device. Expect the X7 router from Netgear capable of the same.

As far as DSL services, I have avoided them, as a matter of preference and capability. Here's two interesting links on DSL types

I may look into that Netgear, reads like it’s the ultimate wireless option. Right now I’m on the fence as to if I’ll keep my AT&T service. AT&T now own DirecTV and continue to raise prices while offering same channel lineup and moderate internet speed. In my dreams Google Fiber would come to our area and solve all these problems. So far appers only Austin and San Antonio here in Texas.

albertporter

Owner
Zephyr24069

We have Charter here delivering 60MB on download which surprisingly measures higher than that using speedtest.net repeatedly even during peak periods.

I wish I had option for a more reliable provider. We have AT&T DSL and 45 Meg down is top speed available based on distance from our home to fiber optic node in our neighborhood.

Time Warner promises they are much faster but I don’t know if they have straightened out their reliability issues I experienced some years ago.

Similarly good results for Oppo 105D (own one as well) for Netflix and other apps which has proven stable and reliable on the Charter link.

I’m using Ethernet with my Oppo and Amazon Fire TV and still occasionally have issues with Netflix stutter and catch up.

The Netgear X6 I wrote about above is the first that lets me have the full bandwidth of the incoming cable line actually passed on to any WiFi-connected device. Expect the X7 router from Netgear capable of the same.

As far as DSL services, I have avoided them, as a matter of preference and capability. Here's two interesting links on DSL types

I may look into that Netgear, reads like it’s the ultimate wireless option. Right now I’m on the fence as to if I’ll keep my AT&T service. AT&T now own DirecTV and continue to raise prices while offering same channel lineup and moderate internet speed. In my dreams Google Fiber would come to our area and solve all these problems. So far appers only Austin and San Antonio here in Texas.

albertporter

Owner
Zephyr24069

We have Charter here delivering 60MB on download which surprisingly measures higher than that using speedtest.net repeatedly even during peak periods.
I wish I had option for a more reliable provider. We have AT&T DSL and 45 Meg down is top speed available based on distance from our home to fiber optic node in our neighborhood.

Time Warner promises they are much faster but I don’t know if they have straightened out their reliability issues I experienced some years ago.

Similarly good results for Oppo 105D (own one as well) for Netflix and other apps which has proven stable and reliable on the Charter link.
I’m using Ethernet with my Oppo and Amazon Fire TV and still occasionally have issues with Netflix stutter and catch up.

The Netgear X6 I wrote about above is the first that lets me have the full bandwidth of the incoming cable line actually passed on to any WiFi-connected device. Expect the X7 router from Netgear capable of the same.

As far as DSL services, I have avoided them, as a matter of preference and capability. Here's two interesting links on DSL types

I may look into that Netgear, reads like it’s the ultimate wireless option. Right now I’m on the fence as to if I’ll keep my AT&T service. AT&T now own DirecTV and continue to raise prices while offering same channel lineup and moderate internet speed. In my dreams Google Fiber would come to our area and solve all these problems. So far appers only Austin and San Antonio here in Texas.

albertporter

Owner
Zephyr24069

We have Charter here delivering 60MB on download which surprisingly measures higher than that using speedtest.net repeatedly even during peak periods.
I wish I had option for a more reliable provider. We have AT&T DSL and 45 Meg down is top speed available based on distance from our home to fiber optic node in our neighborhood.

Time Warner promises they are much faster but I don’t know if they have straightened out their reliability issues I experienced some years ago.

Similarly good results for Oppo 105D (own one as well) for Netflix and other apps which has proven stable and reliable on the Charter link.
I’m using Ethernet with my Oppo and Amazon Fire TV and still occasionally have issues with Netflix stutter and catch up.

The Netgear X6 I wrote about above is the first that lets me have the full bandwidth of the incoming cable line actually passed on to any WiFi-connected device. Expect the X7 router from Netgear capable of the same.

As far as DSL services, I have avoided them, as a matter of preference and capability. Here's two interesting links on DSL types

I may look into that Netgear, reads like it’s the ultimate wireless option. Right now I’m on the fence as to if I’ll keep my AT&T service. AT&T now own DirecTV and continue to raise prices while offering same channel lineup and moderate internet speed. In my dreams Google Fiber would come to our area and solve all these problems. So far appers only Austin and San Antonio here in Texas.

albertporter

Owner
Zephyr24069

We have Charter here delivering 60MB on download which surprisingly measures higher than that using speedtest.net repeatedly even during peak periods.
I wish I had option for a more reliable provider. We have AT&T DSL and 45 Meg down is top speed available based on distance from our home to fiber optic node in our neighborhood.

Time Warner promises they are much faster but I don’t know if they have straightened out their reliability issues I experienced some years ago.

Similarly good results for Oppo 105D (own one as well) for Netflix and other apps which has proven stable and reliable on the Charter link.
I’m using Ethernet with my Oppo and Amazon Fire TV and still occasionally have issues with Netflix stutter and catch up.

The Netgear X6 I wrote about above is the first that lets me have the full bandwidth of the incoming cable line actually passed on to any WiFi-connected device. Expect the X7 router from Netgear capable of the same.

As far as DSL services, I have avoided them, as a matter of preference and capability. Here's two interesting links on DSL types

I may look into that Netgear, reads like it’s the ultimate wireless option. Right now I’m on the fence as to if I’ll keep my AT&T service. AT&T now own DirecTV and continue to raise prices while offering same channel lineup and moderate internet speed. In my dreams Google Fiber would come to our area and solve all these problems. So far appers only Austin and San Antonio here in Texas.

albertporter

Owner
Zephyr24069

We have Charter here delivering 60MB on download which surprisingly measures higher than that using speedtest.net repeatedly even during peak periods.
I wish I had option for a more reliable provider. We have AT&T DSL and 45 Meg down is top speed available based on distance from our home to fiber optic node in our neighborhood.

Time Warner promises they are much faster but I don’t know if they have straightened out their reliability issues I experienced some years ago.

Similarly good results for Oppo 105D (own one as well) for Netflix and other apps which has proven stable and reliable on the Charter link.
I’m using Ethernet with my Oppo and Amazon Fire TV and still occasionally have issues with Netflix stutter and catch up.

The Netgear X6 I wrote about above is the first that lets me have the full bandwidth of the incoming cable line actually passed on to any WiFi-connected device. Expect the X7 router from Netgear capable of the same.

As far as DSL services, I have avoided them, as a matter of preference and capability. Here's two interesting links on DSL types

I may look into that Netgear, reads like it’s the ultimate wireless option. Right now I’m on the fence as to if I’ll keep my AT&T service. AT&T now own DirecTV and continue to raise prices while offering same channel lineup and moderate internet speed. In my dreams Google Fiber would come to our area and solve all these problems. So far appers only Austin and San Antonio here in Texas.

albertporter

Owner
Zephyr24069

We have Charter here delivering 60MB on download which surprisingly measures higher than that using speedtest.net repeatedly even during peak periods.
I wish I had option for a more reliable provider. We have AT&T DSL and 45 Meg down is top speed available based on distance from our home to fiber optic node in our neighborhood.

Time Warner promises they are much faster but I don’t know if they have straightened out their reliability issues I experienced some years ago.

Similarly good results for Oppo 105D (own one as well) for Netflix and other apps which has proven stable and reliable on the Charter link.
I’m using Ethernet with my Oppo and Amazon Fire TV and still occasionally have issues with Netflix stutter and catch up.

The Netgear X6 I wrote about above is the first that lets me have the full bandwidth of the incoming cable line actually passed on to any WiFi-connected device. Expect the X7 router from Netgear capable of the same.

As far as DSL services, I have avoided them, as a matter of preference and capability. Here's two interesting links on DSL types

I may look into that Netgear, reads like it’s the ultimate wireless option. Right now I’m on the fence as to if I’ll keep my AT&T service. AT&T now own DirecTV and continue to raise prices while offering same channel lineup and moderate internet speed. In my dreams Google Fiber would come to our area and solve all these problems. So far appers only Austin and San Antonio here in Texas.

albertporter

Owner
Zephyr24069

We have Charter here delivering 60MB on download which surprisingly measures higher than that using speedtest.net repeatedly even during peak periods.
I wish I had option for a more reliable provider. We have AT&T DSL and 45 Meg down is top speed available based on distance from our home to fiber optic node in our neighborhood.

Time Warner promises they are much faster but I don’t know if they have straightened out their reliability issues I experienced some years ago.

Similarly good results for Oppo 105D (own one as well) for Netflix and other apps which has proven stable and reliable on the Charter link.
I’m using Ethernet with my Oppo and Amazon Fire TV and still occasionally have issues with Netflix stutter and catch up.

The Netgear X6 I wrote about above is the first that lets me have the full bandwidth of the incoming cable line actually passed on to any WiFi-connected device. Expect the X7 router from Netgear capable of the same.

As far as DSL services, I have avoided them, as a matter of preference and capability. Here's two interesting links on DSL types

I may look into that Netgear, reads like it’s the ultimate wireless option. Right now I’m on the fence as to if I’ll keep my AT&T service. AT&T now own DirecTV and continue to raise prices while offering same channel lineup and moderate internet speed. In my dreams Google Fiber would come to our area and solve all these problems. So far appers only Austin and San Antonio here in Texas.

albertporter

Owner
Zephyr24069

We have Charter here delivering 60MB on download which surprisingly measures higher than that using speedtest.net repeatedly even during peak periods.
I wish I had option for a more reliable provider. We have AT&T DSL and 45 Meg down is top speed available based on distance from our home to fiber optic node in our neighborhood.

Time Warner promises they are much faster but I don’t know if they have straightened out their reliability issues I experienced some years ago.

Similarly good results for Oppo 105D (own one as well) for Netflix and other apps which has proven stable and reliable on the Charter link.
I’m using Ethernet with my Oppo and Amazon Fire TV and still occasionally have issues with Netflix stutter and catch up.

The Netgear X6 I wrote about above is the first that lets me have the full bandwidth of the incoming cable line actually passed on to any WiFi-connected device. Expect the X7 router from Netgear capable of the same.

As far as DSL services, I have avoided them, as a matter of preference and capability. Here's two interesting links on DSL types

I may look into that Netgear, reads like it’s the ultimate wireless option. Right now I’m on the fence as to if I’ll keep my AT&T service. AT&T now own DirecTV and continue to raise prices while offering same channel lineup and moderate internet speed. In my dreams Google Fiber would come to our area and solve all these problems. So far appers only Austin and San Antonio here in Texas.

albertporter

Owner
Zephyr24069

We have Charter here delivering 60MB on download which surprisingly measures higher than that using speedtest.net repeatedly even during peak periods.
I wish I had option for a more reliable provider. We have AT&T DSL and 45 Meg down is top speed available based on distance from our home to fiber optic node in our neighborhood.

Time Warner promises they are much faster but I don’t know if they have straightened out their reliability issues I experienced some years ago.

Similarly good results for Oppo 105D (own one as well) for Netflix and other apps which has proven stable and reliable on the Charter link.
I’m using Ethernet with my Oppo and Amazon Fire TV and still occasionally have issues with Netflix stutter and catch up.

The Netgear X6 I wrote about above is the first that lets me have the full bandwidth of the incoming cable line actually passed on to any WiFi-connected device. Expect the X7 router from Netgear capable of the same.

As far as DSL services, I have avoided them, as a matter of preference and capability. Here's two interesting links on DSL types

I may look into that Netgear, reads like it’s the ultimate wireless option. Right now I’m on the fence as to if I’ll keep my AT&T service. AT&T now own DirecTV and continue to raise prices while offering same channel lineup and moderate internet speed. In my dreams Google Fiber would come to our area and solve all these problems. So far appers only Austin and San Antonio here in Texas.

albertporter

Owner
Zephyr24069

We have Charter here delivering 60MB on download which surprisingly measures higher than that using speedtest.net repeatedly even during peak periods.
I wish I had option for a more reliable provider. We have AT&T DSL and 45 Meg down is top speed available based on distance from our home to fiber optic node in our neighborhood.

Time Warner promises they are much faster but I don’t know if they have straightened out their reliability issues I experienced some years ago.

Similarly good results for Oppo 105D (own one as well) for Netflix and other apps which has proven stable and reliable on the Charter link.
I’m using Ethernet with my Oppo and Amazon Fire TV and still occasionally have issues with Netflix stutter and catch up.

The Netgear X6 I wrote about above is the first that lets me have the full bandwidth of the incoming cable line actually passed on to any WiFi-connected device. Expect the X7 router from Netgear capable of the same.

As far as DSL services, I have avoided them, as a matter of preference and capability. Here's two interesting links on DSL types

I may look into that Netgear, reads like it’s the ultimate wireless option. Right now I’m on the fence as to if I’ll keep my AT&T service. AT&T now own DirecTV and continue to raise prices while offering same channel lineup and moderate internet speed. In my dreams Google Fiber would come to our area and solve all these problems. So far appers only Austin and San Antonio here in Texas.

albertporter

Owner
Zephyr24069

We have Charter here delivering 60MB on download which surprisingly measures higher than that using speedtest.net repeatedly even during peak periods.
I wish I had option for a more reliable provider. We have AT&T DSL and 45 Meg down is top speed available based on distance from our home to fiber optic node in our neighborhood.

Time Warner promises they are much faster but I don’t know if they have straightened out their reliability issues I experienced some years ago.

Similarly good results for Oppo 105D (own one as well) for Netflix and other apps which has proven stable and reliable on the Charter link.
I’m using Ethernet with my Oppo and Amazon Fire TV and still occasionally have issues with Netflix stutter and catch up.

The Netgear X6 I wrote about above is the first that lets me have the full bandwidth of the incoming cable line actually passed on to any WiFi-connected device. Expect the X7 router from Netgear capable of the same.

As far as DSL services, I have avoided them, as a matter of preference and capability. Here's two interesting links on DSL types

I may look into that Netgear, reads like it’s the ultimate wireless option. Right now I’m on the fence as to if I’ll keep my AT&T service. AT&T now own DirecTV and continue to raise prices while offering same channel lineup and moderate internet speed. In my dreams Google Fiber would come to our area and solve all these problems. So far appers only Austin and San Antonio here in Texas.

albertporter

Owner
Zephyr24069

We have Charter here delivering 60MB on download which surprisingly measures higher than that using speedtest.net repeatedly even during peak periods.
I wish I had option for a more reliable provider. We have AT&T DSL and 45 Meg down is top speed available based on distance from our home to fiber optic node in our neighborhood.

Time Warner promises they are much faster but I don’t know if they have straightened out their reliability issues I experienced some years ago.

Similarly good results for Oppo 105D (own one as well) for Netflix and other apps which has proven stable and reliable on the Charter link.
I’m using Ethernet with my Oppo and Amazon Fire TV and still occasionally have issues with Netflix stutter and catch up.

The Netgear X6 I wrote about above is the first that lets me have the full bandwidth of the incoming cable line actually passed on to any WiFi-connected device. Expect the X7 router from Netgear capable of the same.

As far as DSL services, I have avoided them, as a matter of preference and capability. Here's two interesting links on DSL types

I may look into that Netgear, reads like it’s the ultimate wireless option. Right now I’m on the fence as to if I’ll keep my AT&T service. AT&T now own DirecTV and continue to raise prices while offering same channel lineup and moderate internet speed. In my dreams Google Fiber would come to our area and solve all these problems. So far appers only Austin and San Antonio here in Texas.

albertporter

Owner
Zephyr24069

We have Charter here delivering 60MB on download which surprisingly measures higher than that using speedtest.net repeatedly even during peak periods.
I wish I had option for a more reliable provider. We have AT&T DSL and 45 Meg down is top speed available based on distance from our home to fiber optic node in our neighborhood.

Time Warner promises they are much faster but I don’t know if they have straightened out their reliability issues I experienced some years ago.

Similarly good results for Oppo 105D (own one as well) for Netflix and other apps which has proven stable and reliable on the Charter link.
I’m using Ethernet with my Oppo and Amazon Fire TV and still occasionally have issues with Netflix stutter and catch up.

The Netgear X6 I wrote about above is the first that lets me have the full bandwidth of the incoming cable line actually passed on to any WiFi-connected device. Expect the X7 router from Netgear capable of the same.

As far as DSL services, I have avoided them, as a matter of preference and capability. Here's two interesting links on DSL types

I may look into that Netgear, reads like it’s the ultimate wireless option. Right now I’m on the fence as to if I’ll keep my AT&T service. AT&T now own DirecTV and continue to raise prices while offering same channel lineup and moderate internet speed. In my dreams Google Fiber would come to our area and solve all these problems. So far appers only Austin and San Antonio here in Texas.

albertporter

Owner
Zephyr24069

We have Charter here delivering 60MB on download which surprisingly measures higher than that using speedtest.net repeatedly even during peak periods.
I wish I had option for a more reliable provider. We have AT&T DSL and 45 Meg down is top speed available based on distance from our home to fiber optic node in our neighborhood.

Time Warner promises they are much faster but I don’t know if they have straightened out their reliability issues I experienced some years ago.

Similarly good results for Oppo 105D (own one as well) for Netflix and other apps which has proven stable and reliable on the Charter link.
I’m using Ethernet with my Oppo and Amazon Fire TV and still occasionally have issues with Netflix stutter and catch up.

The Netgear X6 I wrote about above is the first that lets me have the full bandwidth of the incoming cable line actually passed on to any WiFi-connected device. Expect the X7 router from Netgear capable of the same.

As far as DSL services, I have avoided them, as a matter of preference and capability. Here's two interesting links on DSL types

I may look into that Netgear, reads like it’s the ultimate wireless option. Right now I’m on the fence as to if I’ll keep my AT&T service. AT&T now own DirecTV and continue to raise prices while offering same channel lineup and moderate internet speed. In my dreams Google Fiber would come to our area and solve all these problems. So far appers only Austin and San Antonio here in Texas.

albertporter

Owner
Zephyr24069

We have Charter here delivering 60MB on download which surprisingly measures higher than that using speedtest.net repeatedly even during peak periods.
I wish I had option for a more reliable provider. We have AT&T DSL and 45 Meg down is top speed available based on distance from our home to fiber optic node in our neighborhood.

Time Warner promises they are much faster but I don’t know if they have straightened out their reliability issues I experienced some years ago.

Similarly good results for Oppo 105D (own one as well) for Netflix and other apps which has proven stable and reliable on the Charter link.
I’m using Ethernet with my Oppo and Amazon Fire TV and still occasionally have issues with Netflix stutter and catch up.

The Netgear X6 I wrote about above is the first that lets me have the full bandwidth of the incoming cable line actually passed on to any WiFi-connected device. Expect the X7 router from Netgear capable of the same.

As far as DSL services, I have avoided them, as a matter of preference and capability. Here's two interesting links on DSL types

I may look into that Netgear, reads like it’s the ultimate wireless option. Right now I’m on the fence as to if I’ll keep my AT&T service. AT&T now own DirecTV and continue to raise prices while offering same channel lineup and moderate internet speed. In my dreams Google Fiber would come to our area and solve all these problems. So far appers only Austin and San Antonio here in Texas.

albertporter

Owner
Zephyr24069

We have Charter here delivering 60MB on download which surprisingly measures higher than that using speedtest.net repeatedly even during peak periods.
I wish I had option for a more reliable provider. We have AT&T DSL and 45 Meg down is top speed available based on distance from our home to fiber optic node in our neighborhood.

Time Warner promises they are much faster but I don’t know if they have straightened out their reliability issues I experienced some years ago.

Similarly good results for Oppo 105D (own one as well) for Netflix and other apps which has proven stable and reliable on the Charter link.
I’m using Ethernet with my Oppo and Amazon Fire TV and still occasionally have issues with Netflix stutter and catch up.

The Netgear X6 I wrote about above is the first that lets me have the full bandwidth of the incoming cable line actually passed on to any WiFi-connected device. Expect the X7 router from Netgear capable of the same.

As far as DSL services, I have avoided them, as a matter of preference and capability. Here's two interesting links on DSL types

I may look into that Netgear, reads like it’s the ultimate wireless option. Right now I’m on the fence as to if I’ll keep my AT&T service. AT&T now own DirecTV and continue to raise prices while offering same channel lineup and moderate internet speed. In my dreams Google Fiber would come to our area and solve all these problems. So far appers only Austin and San Antonio here in Texas.

albertporter

Owner
Zephyr24069

We have Charter here delivering 60MB on download which surprisingly measures higher than that using speedtest.net repeatedly even during peak periods.
I wish I had option for a more reliable provider. We have AT&T DSL and 45 Meg down is top speed available based on distance from our home to fiber optic node in our neighborhood.

Time Warner promises they are much faster but I don’t know if they have straightened out their reliability issues I experienced some years ago.

Similarly good results for Oppo 105D (own one as well) for Netflix and other apps which has proven stable and reliable on the Charter link.
I’m using Ethernet with my Oppo and Amazon Fire TV and still occasionally have issues with Netflix stutter and catch up.

The Netgear X6 I wrote about above is the first that lets me have the full bandwidth of the incoming cable line actually passed on to any WiFi-connected device. Expect the X7 router from Netgear capable of the same.

As far as DSL services, I have avoided them, as a matter of preference and capability. Here's two interesting links on DSL types

I may look into that Netgear, reads like it’s the ultimate wireless option. Right now I’m on the fence as to if I’ll keep my AT&T service. AT&T now own DirecTV and continue to raise prices while offering same channel lineup and moderate internet speed. In my dreams Google Fiber would come to our area and solve all these problems. So far appers only Austin and San Antonio here in Texas.

albertporter

Owner
Zephyr24069

We have Charter here delivering 60MB on download which surprisingly measures higher than that using speedtest.net repeatedly even during peak periods.
I wish I had option for a more reliable provider. We have AT&T DSL and 45 Meg down is top speed available based on distance from our home to fiber optic node in our neighborhood.

Time Warner promises they are much faster but I don’t know if they have straightened out their reliability issues I experienced some years ago.

Similarly good results for Oppo 105D (own one as well) for Netflix and other apps which has proven stable and reliable on the Charter link.
I’m using Ethernet with my Oppo and Amazon Fire TV and still occasionally have issues with Netflix stutter and catch up.

The Netgear X6 I wrote about above is the first that lets me have the full bandwidth of the incoming cable line actually passed on to any WiFi-connected device. Expect the X7 router from Netgear capable of the same.

As far as DSL services, I have avoided them, as a matter of preference and capability. Here's two interesting links on DSL types

I may look into that Netgear, reads like it’s the ultimate wireless option. Right now I’m on the fence as to if I’ll keep my AT&T service. AT&T now own DirecTV and continue to raise prices while offering same channel lineup and moderate internet speed. In my dreams Google Fiber would come to our area and solve all these problems. So far appers only Austin and San Antonio here in Texas.

albertporter

Owner
Swampwalker
.....can recommend an advanced amateur digital SLR? We've got some decent point and shoot for snapshots but my wife would like to get back to doing some more "artistic" photography when she retires next year.

We've both used film SLRs in the past (Canon Rebel) but neither of us has done much more than snapshooting w digital cameras. The plethora of unnecessary features and impenetrable nested menus real make them difficult to use...

Hello Swamp,

I agree that many cameras today have menus buried inside menus. I’ve made my living as a commercial photographer for decades and some of those “simple” point and shoot cameras make my head spin.

Maybe because I began with manual camera and a hand held meter but whatever the reason the choices that include blinking lights, images of mountain ranges and soccer players are not helpful.

I don’t want to steer you away from Canon if you’re comfortable with the brand. They are an excellent company but I’m mostly familiar with Nikon and Sony (excluding large pro cameras).

If you want SLR the Nikon D800 or D810 (about 36 MP) are more resolution than most people can use. It would supply quality images to meet any use you might have including very large prints and plenty of image quality to do drastic crops and still have sharpness to spare.

Nikon

If you want smaller, more economical and simpler than an SLR the Sony A6000 (24 MP) has very good resolution, is super lightweight and is fun to use. It produces amazing images and although not the ultimate resolution of the Nikon it’s what I use when I go out to capture images for fun. The Sony sensor shares color personality with Nikon and for good reason. They supply the 36 MP sensor for Nikon.

Sony

Sony offers custom Zeiss zoom lenses in their mount system. Zeiss glass is expensive but color is excellent, same company that made glass for Hasselblad (moon camera).

Safe place to buy either is B&H in New York if you don’t have someone local. They are incredibly honest, not like some mail order houses that promise and don’t deliver.

Feel free to email me if you need help or I’m glad to spend phone time. Hope whatever you choose you and your wife enjoy the creative time together.

albertporter

Owner
Swampwalker
.....can recommend an advanced amateur digital SLR? We've got some decent point and shoot for snapshots but my wife would like to get back to doing some more "artistic" photography when she retires next year.

We've both used film SLRs in the past (Canon Rebel) but neither of us has done much more than snapshooting w digital cameras. The plethora of unnecessary features and impenetrable nested menus real make them difficult to use...

Hello Swamp,

I agree that many cameras today have menus buried inside menus. I’ve made my living as a commercial photographer for decades and some of those “simple” point and shoot cameras make my head spin.

Maybe because I began with manual camera and a hand held meter but whatever the reason the choices that include blinking lights, images of mountain ranges and soccer players are not helpful.

I don’t want to steer you away from Canon if you’re comfortable with the brand. They are an excellent company but I’m mostly familiar with Nikon and Sony (excluding large pro cameras).

If you want SLR the Nikon D800 or D810 (about 36 MP) are more resolution than most people can use. It would supply quality images to meet any use you might have including very large prints and plenty of image quality to do drastic crops and still have sharpness to spare.

Nikon

If you want smaller, more economical and simpler than an SLR the Sony A6000 (24 MP) has very good resolution, is super lightweight and is fun to use. It produces amazing images and although not the ultimate resolution of the Nikon it’s what I use when I go out to capture images for fun. The Sony sensor shares color personality with Nikon and for good reason. They supply the 36 MP sensor for Nikon.

Sony

Sony offers custom Zeiss zoom lenses in their mount system. Zeiss glass is expensive but color is excellent, same company that made glass for Hasselblad (moon camera).

Safe place to buy either is B&H in New York if you don’t have someone local. They are incredibly honest, not like some mail order houses that promise and don’t deliver.

Feel free to email me if you need help or I’m glad to spend phone time. Hope whatever you choose you and your wife enjoy the creative time together.

albertporter

Owner
Swampwalker
.....can recommend an advanced amateur digital SLR? We've got some decent point and shoot for snapshots but my wife would like to get back to doing some more "artistic" photography when she retires next year.

We've both used film SLRs in the past (Canon Rebel) but neither of us has done much more than snapshooting w digital cameras. The plethora of unnecessary features and impenetrable nested menus real make them difficult to use...

Hello Swamp,

I agree that many cameras today have menus buried inside menus. I’ve made my living as a commercial photographer for decades and some of those “simple” point and shoot cameras make my head spin.

Maybe because I began with manual camera and a hand held meter but whatever the reason the choices that include blinking lights, images of mountain ranges and soccer players are not helpful.

I don’t want to steer you away from Canon if you’re comfortable with the brand. They are an excellent company but I’m mostly familiar with Nikon and Sony (excluding large pro cameras).

If you want SLR the Nikon D800 or D810 (about 36 MP) are more resolution than most people can use. It would supply quality images to meet any use you might have including very large prints and plenty of image quality to do drastic crops and still have sharpness to spare.

Nikon

If you want smaller, more economical and simpler than an SLR the Sony A6000 (24 MP) has very good resolution, is super lightweight and is fun to use. It produces amazing images and although not the ultimate resolution of the Nikon it’s what I use when I go out to capture images for fun. The Sony sensor shares color personality with Nikon and for good reason. They supply the 36 MP sensor for Nikon.

Sony

Sony offers custom Zeiss zoom lenses in their mount system. Zeiss glass is expensive but color is excellent, same company that made glass for Hasselblad (moon camera).

Safe place to buy either is B&H in New York if you don’t have someone local. They are incredibly honest, not like some mail order houses that promise and don’t deliver.

Feel free to email me if you need help or I’m glad to spend phone time. Hope whatever you choose you and your wife enjoy the creative time together.

albertporter

Owner
Swampwalker
.....can recommend an advanced amateur digital SLR? We've got some decent point and shoot for snapshots but my wife would like to get back to doing some more "artistic" photography when she retires next year.

We've both used film SLRs in the past (Canon Rebel) but neither of us has done much more than snapshooting w digital cameras. The plethora of unnecessary features and impenetrable nested menus real make them difficult to use...

Hello Swamp,

I agree that many cameras today have menus buried inside menus. I’ve made my living as a commercial photographer for decades and some of those “simple” point and shoot cameras make my head spin.

Maybe because I began with manual camera and a hand held meter but whatever the reason the choices that include blinking lights, images of mountain ranges and soccer players are not helpful.

I don’t want to steer you away from Canon if you’re comfortable with the brand. They are an excellent company but I’m mostly familiar with Nikon and Sony (excluding large pro cameras).

If you want SLR the Nikon D800 or D810 (about 36 MP) are more resolution than most people can use. It would supply quality images to meet any use you might have including very large prints and plenty of image quality to do drastic crops and still have sharpness to spare.

Nikon

If you want smaller, more economical and simpler than an SLR the Sony A6000 (24 MP) has very good resolution, is super lightweight and is fun to use. It produces amazing images and although not the ultimate resolution of the Nikon it’s what I use when I go out to capture images for fun. The Sony sensor shares color personality with Nikon and for good reason. They supply the 36 MP sensor for Nikon.

Sony

Sony offers custom Zeiss zoom lenses in their mount system. Zeiss glass is expensive but color is excellent, same company that made glass for Hasselblad (moon camera).

Safe place to buy either is B&H in New York if you don’t have someone local. They are incredibly honest, not like some mail order houses that promise and don’t deliver.

Feel free to email me if you need help or I’m glad to spend phone time. Hope whatever you choose you and your wife enjoy the creative time together.

albertporter

Owner
Swampwalker
.....can recommend an advanced amateur digital SLR? We've got some decent point and shoot for snapshots but my wife would like to get back to doing some more "artistic" photography when she retires next year.

We've both used film SLRs in the past (Canon Rebel) but neither of us has done much more than snapshooting w digital cameras. The plethora of unnecessary features and impenetrable nested menus real make them difficult to use...

Hello Swamp,

I agree that many cameras today have menus buried inside menus. I’ve made my living as a commercial photographer for decades and some of those “simple” point and shoot cameras make my head spin.

Maybe because I began with manual camera and a hand held meter but whatever the reason the choices that include blinking lights, images of mountain ranges and soccer players are not helpful.

I don’t want to steer you away from Canon if you’re comfortable with the brand. They are an excellent company but I’m mostly familiar with Nikon and Sony (excluding large pro cameras).

If you want SLR the Nikon D800 or D810 (about 36 MP) are more resolution than most people can use. It would supply quality images to meet any use you might have including very large prints and plenty of image quality to do drastic crops and still have sharpness to spare.

Nikon

If you want smaller, more economical and simpler than an SLR the Sony A6000 (24 MP) has very good resolution, is super lightweight and is fun to use. It produces amazing images and although not the ultimate resolution of the Nikon it’s what I use when I go out to capture images for fun. The Sony sensor shares color personality with Nikon and for good reason. They supply the 36 MP sensor for Nikon.

Sony

Sony offers custom Zeiss zoom lenses in their mount system. Zeiss glass is expensive but color is excellent, same company that made glass for Hasselblad (moon camera).

Safe place to buy either is B&H in New York if you don’t have someone local. They are incredibly honest, not like some mail order houses that promise and don’t deliver.

Feel free to email me if you need help or I’m glad to spend phone time. Hope whatever you choose you and your wife enjoy the creative time together.

albertporter

Owner
Swampwalker
.....can recommend an advanced amateur digital SLR? We've got some decent point and shoot for snapshots but my wife would like to get back to doing some more "artistic" photography when she retires next year.

We've both used film SLRs in the past (Canon Rebel) but neither of us has done much more than snapshooting w digital cameras. The plethora of unnecessary features and impenetrable nested menus real make them difficult to use...

Hello Swamp,

I agree that many cameras today have menus buried inside menus. I’ve made my living as a commercial photographer for decades and some of those “simple” point and shoot cameras make my head spin.

Maybe because I began with manual camera and a hand held meter but whatever the reason the choices that include blinking lights, images of mountain ranges and soccer players are not helpful.

I don’t want to steer you away from Canon if you’re comfortable with the brand. They are an excellent company but I’m mostly familiar with Nikon and Sony (excluding large pro cameras).

If you want SLR the Nikon D800 or D810 (about 36 MP) are more resolution than most people can use. It would supply quality images to meet any use you might have including very large prints and plenty of image quality to do drastic crops and still have sharpness to spare.

Nikon

If you want smaller, more economical and simpler than an SLR the Sony A6000 (24 MP) has very good resolution, is super lightweight and is fun to use. It produces amazing images and although not the ultimate resolution of the Nikon it’s what I use when I go out to capture images for fun. The Sony sensor shares color personality with Nikon and for good reason. They supply the 36 MP sensor for Nikon.

Sony

Sony offers custom Zeiss zoom lenses in their mount system. Zeiss glass is expensive but color is excellent, same company that made glass for Hasselblad (moon camera).

Safe place to buy either is B&H in New York if you don’t have someone local. They are incredibly honest, not like some mail order houses that promise and don’t deliver.

Feel free to email me if you need help or I’m glad to spend phone time. Hope whatever you choose you and your wife enjoy the creative time together.

albertporter

Owner
Swampwalker
.....can recommend an advanced amateur digital SLR? We've got some decent point and shoot for snapshots but my wife would like to get back to doing some more "artistic" photography when she retires next year.

We've both used film SLRs in the past (Canon Rebel) but neither of us has done much more than snapshooting w digital cameras. The plethora of unnecessary features and impenetrable nested menus real make them difficult to use...

Hello Swamp,

I agree that many cameras today have menus buried inside menus. I’ve made my living as a commercial photographer for decades and some of those “simple” point and shoot cameras make my head spin.

Maybe because I began with manual camera and a hand held meter but whatever the reason the choices that include blinking lights, images of mountain ranges and soccer players are not helpful.

I don’t want to steer you away from Canon if you’re comfortable with the brand. They are an excellent company but I’m mostly familiar with Nikon and Sony (excluding large pro cameras).

If you want SLR the Nikon D800 or D810 (about 36 MP) are more resolution than most people can use. It would supply quality images to meet any use you might have including very large prints and plenty of image quality to do drastic crops and still have sharpness to spare.

Nikon

If you want smaller, more economical and simpler than an SLR the Sony A6000 (24 MP) has very good resolution, is super lightweight and is fun to use. It produces amazing images and although not the ultimate resolution of the Nikon it’s what I use when I go out to capture images for fun. The Sony sensor shares color personality with Nikon and for good reason. They supply the 36 MP sensor for Nikon.

Sony

Sony offers custom Zeiss zoom lenses in their mount system. Zeiss glass is expensive but color is excellent, same company that made glass for Hasselblad (moon camera).

Safe place to buy either is B&H in New York if you don’t have someone local. They are incredibly honest, not like some mail order houses that promise and don’t deliver.

Feel free to email me if you need help or I’m glad to spend phone time. Hope whatever you choose you and your wife enjoy the creative time together.

albertporter

Owner
Swampwalker
.....can recommend an advanced amateur digital SLR? We've got some decent point and shoot for snapshots but my wife would like to get back to doing some more "artistic" photography when she retires next year.

We've both used film SLRs in the past (Canon Rebel) but neither of us has done much more than snapshooting w digital cameras. The plethora of unnecessary features and impenetrable nested menus real make them difficult to use...

Hello Swamp,

I agree that many cameras today have menus buried inside menus. I’ve made my living as a commercial photographer for decades and some of those “simple” point and shoot cameras make my head spin.

Maybe because I began with manual camera and a hand held meter but whatever the reason the choices that include blinking lights, images of mountain ranges and soccer players are not helpful.

I don’t want to steer you away from Canon if you’re comfortable with the brand. They are an excellent company but I’m mostly familiar with Nikon and Sony (excluding large pro cameras).

If you want SLR the Nikon D800 or D810 (about 36 MP) are more resolution than most people can use. It would supply quality images to meet any use you might have including very large prints and plenty of image quality to do drastic crops and still have sharpness to spare.

Nikon

If you want smaller, more economical and simpler than an SLR the Sony A6000 (24 MP) has very good resolution, is super lightweight and is fun to use. It produces amazing images and although not the ultimate resolution of the Nikon it’s what I use when I go out to capture images for fun. The Sony sensor shares color personality with Nikon and for good reason. They supply the 36 MP sensor for Nikon.

Sony

Sony offers custom Zeiss zoom lenses in their mount system. Zeiss glass is expensive but color is excellent, same company that made glass for Hasselblad (moon camera).

Safe place to buy either is B&H in New York if you don’t have someone local. They are incredibly honest, not like some mail order houses that promise and don’t deliver.

Feel free to email me if you need help or I’m glad to spend phone time. Hope whatever you choose you and your wife enjoy the creative time together.

albertporter

Owner
Swampwalker
.....can recommend an advanced amateur digital SLR? We've got some decent point and shoot for snapshots but my wife would like to get back to doing some more "artistic" photography when she retires next year.

We've both used film SLRs in the past (Canon Rebel) but neither of us has done much more than snapshooting w digital cameras. The plethora of unnecessary features and impenetrable nested menus real make them difficult to use...

Hello Swamp,

I agree that many cameras today have menus buried inside menus. I’ve made my living as a commercial photographer for decades and some of those “simple” point and shoot cameras make my head spin.

Maybe because I began with manual camera and a hand held meter but whatever the reason the choices that include blinking lights, images of mountain ranges and soccer players are not helpful.

I don’t want to steer you away from Canon if you’re comfortable with the brand. They are an excellent company but I’m mostly familiar with Nikon and Sony (excluding large pro cameras).

If you want SLR the Nikon D800 or D810 (about 36 MP) are more resolution than most people can use. It would supply quality images to meet any use you might have including very large prints and plenty of image quality to do drastic crops and still have sharpness to spare.

Nikon

If you want smaller, more economical and simpler than an SLR the Sony A6000 (24 MP) has very good resolution, is super lightweight and is fun to use. It produces amazing images and although not the ultimate resolution of the Nikon it’s what I use when I go out to capture images for fun. The Sony sensor shares color personality with Nikon and for good reason. They supply the 36 MP sensor for Nikon.

Sony

Sony offers custom Zeiss zoom lenses in their mount system. Zeiss glass is expensive but color is excellent, same company that made glass for Hasselblad (moon camera).

Safe place to buy either is B&H in New York if you don’t have someone local. They are incredibly honest, not like some mail order houses that promise and don’t deliver.

Feel free to email me if you need help or I’m glad to spend phone time. Hope whatever you choose you and your wife enjoy the creative time together.

albertporter

Owner
Swampwalker
.....can recommend an advanced amateur digital SLR? We've got some decent point and shoot for snapshots but my wife would like to get back to doing some more "artistic" photography when she retires next year.

We've both used film SLRs in the past (Canon Rebel) but neither of us has done much more than snapshooting w digital cameras. The plethora of unnecessary features and impenetrable nested menus real make them difficult to use...

Hello Swamp,

I agree that many cameras today have menus buried inside menus. I’ve made my living as a commercial photographer for decades and some of those “simple” point and shoot cameras make my head spin.

Maybe because I began with manual camera and a hand held meter but whatever the reason the choices that include blinking lights, images of mountain ranges and soccer players are not helpful.

I don’t want to steer you away from Canon if you’re comfortable with the brand. They are an excellent company but I’m mostly familiar with Nikon and Sony (excluding large pro cameras).

If you want SLR the Nikon D800 or D810 (about 36 MP) are more resolution than most people can use. It would supply quality images to meet any use you might have including very large prints and plenty of image quality to do drastic crops and still have sharpness to spare.

Nikon

If you want smaller, more economical and simpler than an SLR the Sony A6000 (24 MP) has very good resolution, is super lightweight and is fun to use. It produces amazing images and although not the ultimate resolution of the Nikon it’s what I use when I go out to capture images for fun. The Sony sensor shares color personality with Nikon and for good reason. They supply the 36 MP sensor for Nikon.

Sony

Sony offers custom Zeiss zoom lenses in their mount system. Zeiss glass is expensive but color is excellent, same company that made glass for Hasselblad (moon camera).

Safe place to buy either is B&H in New York if you don’t have someone local. They are incredibly honest, not like some mail order houses that promise and don’t deliver.

Feel free to email me if you need help or I’m glad to spend phone time. Hope whatever you choose you and your wife enjoy the creative time together.

albertporter

Owner
Swampwalker
.....can recommend an advanced amateur digital SLR? We've got some decent point and shoot for snapshots but my wife would like to get back to doing some more "artistic" photography when she retires next year.

We've both used film SLRs in the past (Canon Rebel) but neither of us has done much more than snapshooting w digital cameras. The plethora of unnecessary features and impenetrable nested menus real make them difficult to use...

Hello Swamp,

I agree that many cameras today have menus buried inside menus. I’ve made my living as a commercial photographer for decades and some of those “simple” point and shoot cameras make my head spin.

Maybe because I began with manual camera and a hand held meter but whatever the reason the choices that include blinking lights, images of mountain ranges and soccer players are not helpful.

I don’t want to steer you away from Canon if you’re comfortable with the brand. They are an excellent company but I’m mostly familiar with Nikon and Sony (excluding large pro cameras).

If you want SLR the Nikon D800 or D810 (about 36 MP) are more resolution than most people can use. It would supply quality images to meet any use you might have including very large prints and plenty of image quality to do drastic crops and still have sharpness to spare.

Nikon

If you want smaller, more economical and simpler than an SLR the Sony A6000 (24 MP) has very good resolution, is super lightweight and is fun to use. It produces amazing images and although not the ultimate resolution of the Nikon it’s what I use when I go out to capture images for fun. The Sony sensor shares color personality with Nikon and for good reason. They supply the 36 MP sensor for Nikon.

Sony

Sony offers custom Zeiss zoom lenses in their mount system. Zeiss glass is expensive but color is excellent, same company that made glass for Hasselblad (moon camera).

Safe place to buy either is B&H in New York if you don’t have someone local. They are incredibly honest, not like some mail order houses that promise and don’t deliver.

Feel free to email me if you need help or I’m glad to spend phone time. Hope whatever you choose you and your wife enjoy the creative time together.

albertporter

Owner
Swampwalker
.....can recommend an advanced amateur digital SLR? We've got some decent point and shoot for snapshots but my wife would like to get back to doing some more "artistic" photography when she retires next year.

We've both used film SLRs in the past (Canon Rebel) but neither of us has done much more than snapshooting w digital cameras. The plethora of unnecessary features and impenetrable nested menus real make them difficult to use...

Hello Swamp,

I agree that many cameras today have menus buried inside menus. I’ve made my living as a commercial photographer for decades and some of those “simple” point and shoot cameras make my head spin.

Maybe because I began with manual camera and a hand held meter but whatever the reason the choices that include blinking lights, images of mountain ranges and soccer players are not helpful.

I don’t want to steer you away from Canon if you’re comfortable with the brand. They are an excellent company but I’m mostly familiar with Nikon and Sony (excluding large pro cameras).

If you want SLR the Nikon D800 or D810 (about 36 MP) are more resolution than most people can use. It would supply quality images to meet any use you might have including very large prints and plenty of image quality to do drastic crops and still have sharpness to spare.

Nikon

If you want smaller, more economical and simpler than an SLR the Sony A6000 (24 MP) has very good resolution, is super lightweight and is fun to use. It produces amazing images and although not the ultimate resolution of the Nikon it’s what I use when I go out to capture images for fun. The Sony sensor shares color personality with Nikon and for good reason. They supply the 36 MP sensor for Nikon.

Sony

Sony offers custom Zeiss zoom lenses in their mount system. Zeiss glass is expensive but color is excellent, same company that made glass for Hasselblad (moon camera).

Safe place to buy either is B&H in New York if you don’t have someone local. They are incredibly honest, not like some mail order houses that promise and don’t deliver.

Feel free to email me if you need help or I’m glad to spend phone time. Hope whatever you choose you and your wife enjoy the creative time together.

albertporter

Owner
Swampwalker
.....can recommend an advanced amateur digital SLR? We've got some decent point and shoot for snapshots but my wife would like to get back to doing some more "artistic" photography when she retires next year.

We've both used film SLRs in the past (Canon Rebel) but neither of us has done much more than snapshooting w digital cameras. The plethora of unnecessary features and impenetrable nested menus real make them difficult to use...

Hello Swamp,

I agree that many cameras today have menus buried inside menus. I’ve made my living as a commercial photographer for decades and some of those “simple” point and shoot cameras make my head spin.

Maybe because I began with manual camera and a hand held meter but whatever the reason the choices that include blinking lights, images of mountain ranges and soccer players are not helpful.

I don’t want to steer you away from Canon if you’re comfortable with the brand. They are an excellent company but I’m mostly familiar with Nikon and Sony (excluding large pro cameras).

If you want SLR the Nikon D800 or D810 (about 36 MP) are more resolution than most people can use. It would supply quality images to meet any use you might have including very large prints and plenty of image quality to do drastic crops and still have sharpness to spare.

Nikon

If you want smaller, more economical and simpler than an SLR the Sony A6000 (24 MP) has very good resolution, is super lightweight and is fun to use. It produces amazing images and although not the ultimate resolution of the Nikon it’s what I use when I go out to capture images for fun. The Sony sensor shares color personality with Nikon and for good reason. They supply the 36 MP sensor for Nikon.

Sony

Sony offers custom Zeiss zoom lenses in their mount system. Zeiss glass is expensive but color is excellent, same company that made glass for Hasselblad (moon camera).

Safe place to buy either is B&H in New York if you don’t have someone local. They are incredibly honest, not like some mail order houses that promise and don’t deliver.

Feel free to email me if you need help or I’m glad to spend phone time. Hope whatever you choose you and your wife enjoy the creative time together.

albertporter

Owner
Swampwalker
.....can recommend an advanced amateur digital SLR? We've got some decent point and shoot for snapshots but my wife would like to get back to doing some more "artistic" photography when she retires next year.

We've both used film SLRs in the past (Canon Rebel) but neither of us has done much more than snapshooting w digital cameras. The plethora of unnecessary features and impenetrable nested menus real make them difficult to use...

Hello Swamp,

I agree that many cameras today have menus buried inside menus. I’ve made my living as a commercial photographer for decades and some of those “simple” point and shoot cameras make my head spin.

Maybe because I began with manual camera and a hand held meter but whatever the reason the choices that include blinking lights, images of mountain ranges and soccer players are not helpful.

I don’t want to steer you away from Canon if you’re comfortable with the brand. They are an excellent company but I’m mostly familiar with Nikon and Sony (excluding large pro cameras).

If you want SLR the Nikon D800 or D810 (about 36 MP) are more resolution than most people can use. It would supply quality images to meet any use you might have including very large prints and plenty of image quality to do drastic crops and still have sharpness to spare.

Nikon

If you want smaller, more economical and simpler than an SLR the Sony A6000 (24 MP) has very good resolution, is super lightweight and is fun to use. It produces amazing images and although not the ultimate resolution of the Nikon it’s what I use when I go out to capture images for fun. The Sony sensor shares color personality with Nikon and for good reason. They supply the 36 MP sensor for Nikon.

Sony

Sony offers custom Zeiss zoom lenses in their mount system. Zeiss glass is expensive but color is excellent, same company that made glass for Hasselblad (moon camera).

Safe place to buy either is B&H in New York if you don’t have someone local. They are incredibly honest, not like some mail order houses that promise and don’t deliver.

Feel free to email me if you need help or I’m glad to spend phone time. Hope whatever you choose you and your wife enjoy the creative time together.

albertporter

Owner
Swampwalker
.....can recommend an advanced amateur digital SLR? We've got some decent point and shoot for snapshots but my wife would like to get back to doing some more "artistic" photography when she retires next year.

We've both used film SLRs in the past (Canon Rebel) but neither of us has done much more than snapshooting w digital cameras. The plethora of unnecessary features and impenetrable nested menus real make them difficult to use...

Hello Swamp,

I agree that many cameras today have menus buried inside menus. I’ve made my living as a commercial photographer for decades and some of those “simple” point and shoot cameras make my head spin.

Maybe because I began with manual camera and a hand held meter but whatever the reason the choices that include blinking lights, images of mountain ranges and soccer players are not helpful.

I don’t want to steer you away from Canon if you’re comfortable with the brand. They are an excellent company but I’m mostly familiar with Nikon and Sony (excluding large pro cameras).

If you want SLR the Nikon D800 or D810 (about 36 MP) are more resolution than most people can use. It would supply quality images to meet any use you might have including very large prints and plenty of image quality to do drastic crops and still have sharpness to spare.

Nikon

If you want smaller, more economical and simpler than an SLR the Sony A6000 (24 MP) has very good resolution, is super lightweight and is fun to use. It produces amazing images and although not the ultimate resolution of the Nikon it’s what I use when I go out to capture images for fun. The Sony sensor shares color personality with Nikon and for good reason. They supply the 36 MP sensor for Nikon.

Sony

Sony offers custom Zeiss zoom lenses in their mount system. Zeiss glass is expensive but color is excellent, same company that made glass for Hasselblad (moon camera).

Safe place to buy either is B&H in New York if you don’t have someone local. They are incredibly honest, not like some mail order houses that promise and don’t deliver.

Feel free to email me if you need help or I’m glad to spend phone time. Hope whatever you choose you and your wife enjoy the creative time together.

albertporter

Owner
Swampwalker
.....can recommend an advanced amateur digital SLR? We've got some decent point and shoot for snapshots but my wife would like to get back to doing some more "artistic" photography when she retires next year.

We've both used film SLRs in the past (Canon Rebel) but neither of us has done much more than snapshooting w digital cameras. The plethora of unnecessary features and impenetrable nested menus real make them difficult to use...

Hello Swamp,

I agree that many cameras today have menus buried inside menus. I’ve made my living as a commercial photographer for decades and some of those “simple” point and shoot cameras make my head spin.

Maybe because I began with manual camera and a hand held meter but whatever the reason the choices that include blinking lights, images of mountain ranges and soccer players are not helpful.

I don’t want to steer you away from Canon if you’re comfortable with the brand. They are an excellent company but I’m mostly familiar with Nikon and Sony (excluding large pro cameras).

If you want SLR the Nikon D800 or D810 (about 36 MP) are more resolution than most people can use. It would supply quality images to meet any use you might have including very large prints and plenty of image quality to do drastic crops and still have sharpness to spare.

Nikon

If you want smaller, more economical and simpler than an SLR the Sony A6000 (24 MP) has very good resolution, is super lightweight and is fun to use. It produces amazing images and although not the ultimate resolution of the Nikon it’s what I use when I go out to capture images for fun. The Sony sensor shares color personality with Nikon and for good reason. They supply the 36 MP sensor for Nikon.

Sony

Sony offers custom Zeiss zoom lenses in their mount system. Zeiss glass is expensive but color is excellent, same company that made glass for Hasselblad (moon camera).

Safe place to buy either is B&H in New York if you don’t have someone local. They are incredibly honest, not like some mail order houses that promise and don’t deliver.

Feel free to email me if you need help or I’m glad to spend phone time. Hope whatever you choose you and your wife enjoy the creative time together.

albertporter

Owner
Swampwalker
.....can recommend an advanced amateur digital SLR? We've got some decent point and shoot for snapshots but my wife would like to get back to doing some more "artistic" photography when she retires next year.

We've both used film SLRs in the past (Canon Rebel) but neither of us has done much more than snapshooting w digital cameras. The plethora of unnecessary features and impenetrable nested menus real make them difficult to use...

Hello Swamp,

I agree that many cameras today have menus buried inside menus. I’ve made my living as a commercial photographer for decades and some of those “simple” point and shoot cameras make my head spin.

Maybe because I began with manual camera and a hand held meter but whatever the reason the choices that include blinking lights, images of mountain ranges and soccer players are not helpful.

I don’t want to steer you away from Canon if you’re comfortable with the brand. They are an excellent company but I’m mostly familiar with Nikon and Sony (excluding large pro cameras).

If you want SLR the Nikon D800 or D810 (about 36 MP) are more resolution than most people can use. It would supply quality images to meet any use you might have including very large prints and plenty of image quality to do drastic crops and still have sharpness to spare.

Nikon

If you want smaller, more economical and simpler than an SLR the Sony A6000 (24 MP) has very good resolution, is super lightweight and is fun to use. It produces amazing images and although not the ultimate resolution of the Nikon it’s what I use when I go out to capture images for fun. The Sony sensor shares color personality with Nikon and for good reason. They supply the 36 MP sensor for Nikon.

Sony

Sony offers custom Zeiss zoom lenses in their mount system. Zeiss glass is expensive but color is excellent, same company that made glass for Hasselblad (moon camera).

Safe place to buy either is B&H in New York if you don’t have someone local. They are incredibly honest, not like some mail order houses that promise and don’t deliver.

Feel free to email me if you need help or I’m glad to spend phone time. Hope whatever you choose you and your wife enjoy the creative time together.

albertporter

Owner
Swampwalker
.....can recommend an advanced amateur digital SLR? We've got some decent point and shoot for snapshots but my wife would like to get back to doing some more "artistic" photography when she retires next year.

We've both used film SLRs in the past (Canon Rebel) but neither of us has done much more than snapshooting w digital cameras. The plethora of unnecessary features and impenetrable nested menus real make them difficult to use...

Hello Swamp,

I agree that many cameras today have menus buried inside menus. I’ve made my living as a commercial photographer for decades and some of those “simple” point and shoot cameras make my head spin.

Maybe because I began with manual camera and a hand held meter but whatever the reason the choices that include blinking lights, images of mountain ranges and soccer players are not helpful.

I don’t want to steer you away from Canon if you’re comfortable with the brand. They are an excellent company but I’m mostly familiar with Nikon and Sony (excluding large pro cameras).

If you want SLR the Nikon D800 or D810 (about 36 MP) are more resolution than most people can use. It would supply quality images to meet any use you might have including very large prints and plenty of image quality to do drastic crops and still have sharpness to spare.

Nikon

If you want smaller, more economical and simpler than an SLR the Sony A6000 (24 MP) has very good resolution, is super lightweight and is fun to use. It produces amazing images and although not the ultimate resolution of the Nikon it’s what I use when I go out to capture images for fun. The Sony sensor shares color personality with Nikon and for good reason. They supply the 36 MP sensor for Nikon.

Sony

Sony offers custom Zeiss zoom lenses in their mount system. Zeiss glass is expensive but color is excellent, same company that made glass for Hasselblad (moon camera).

Safe place to buy either is B&H in New York if you don’t have someone local. They are incredibly honest, not like some mail order houses that promise and don’t deliver.

Feel free to email me if you need help or I’m glad to spend phone time. Hope whatever you choose you and your wife enjoy the creative time together.

albertporter

Owner
Swampwalker
.....can recommend an advanced amateur digital SLR? We've got some decent point and shoot for snapshots but my wife would like to get back to doing some more "artistic" photography when she retires next year.

We've both used film SLRs in the past (Canon Rebel) but neither of us has done much more than snapshooting w digital cameras. The plethora of unnecessary features and impenetrable nested menus real make them difficult to use...

Hello Swamp,

I agree that many cameras today have menus buried inside menus. I’ve made my living as a commercial photographer for decades and some of those “simple” point and shoot cameras make my head spin.

Maybe because I began with manual camera and a hand held meter but whatever the reason the choices that include blinking lights, images of mountain ranges and soccer players are not helpful.

I don’t want to steer you away from Canon if you’re comfortable with the brand. They are an excellent company but I’m mostly familiar with Nikon and Sony (excluding large pro cameras).

If you want SLR the Nikon D800 or D810 (about 36 MP) are more resolution than most people can use. It would supply quality images to meet any use you might have including very large prints and plenty of image quality to do drastic crops and still have sharpness to spare.

Nikon

If you want smaller, more economical and simpler than an SLR the Sony A6000 (24 MP) has very good resolution, is super lightweight and is fun to use. It produces amazing images and although not the ultimate resolution of the Nikon it’s what I use when I go out to capture images for fun. The Sony sensor shares color personality with Nikon and for good reason. They supply the 36 MP sensor for Nikon.

Sony

Sony offers custom Zeiss zoom lenses in their mount system. Zeiss glass is expensive but color is excellent, same company that made glass for Hasselblad (moon camera).

Safe place to buy either is B&H in New York if you don’t have someone local. They are incredibly honest, not like some mail order houses that promise and don’t deliver.

Feel free to email me if you need help or I’m glad to spend phone time. Hope whatever you choose you and your wife enjoy the creative time together.

albertporter

Owner
Swampwalker
.....can recommend an advanced amateur digital SLR? We've got some decent point and shoot for snapshots but my wife would like to get back to doing some more "artistic" photography when she retires next year.

We've both used film SLRs in the past (Canon Rebel) but neither of us has done much more than snapshooting w digital cameras. The plethora of unnecessary features and impenetrable nested menus real make them difficult to use...

Hello Swamp,

I agree that many cameras today have menus buried inside menus. I’ve made my living as a commercial photographer for decades and some of those “simple” point and shoot cameras make my head spin.

Maybe because I began with manual camera and a hand held meter but whatever the reason the choices that include blinking lights, images of mountain ranges and soccer players are not helpful.

I don’t want to steer you away from Canon if you’re comfortable with the brand. They are an excellent company but I’m mostly familiar with Nikon and Sony (excluding large pro cameras).

If you want SLR the Nikon D800 or D810 (about 36 MP) are more resolution than most people can use. It would supply quality images to meet any use you might have including very large prints and plenty of image quality to do drastic crops and still have sharpness to spare.

Nikon

If you want smaller, more economical and simpler than an SLR the Sony A6000 (24 MP) has very good resolution, is super lightweight and is fun to use. It produces amazing images and although not the ultimate resolution of the Nikon it’s what I use when I go out to capture images for fun. The Sony sensor shares color personality with Nikon and for good reason. They supply the 36 MP sensor for Nikon.

Sony

Sony offers custom Zeiss zoom lenses in their mount system. Zeiss glass is expensive but color is excellent, same company that made glass for Hasselblad (moon camera).

Safe place to buy either is B&H in New York if you don’t have someone local. They are incredibly honest, not like some mail order houses that promise and don’t deliver.

Feel free to email me if you need help or I’m glad to spend phone time. Hope whatever you choose you and your wife enjoy the creative time together.

albertporter

Owner
Swampwalker
.....can recommend an advanced amateur digital SLR? We've got some decent point and shoot for snapshots but my wife would like to get back to doing some more "artistic" photography when she retires next year.

We've both used film SLRs in the past (Canon Rebel) but neither of us has done much more than snapshooting w digital cameras. The plethora of unnecessary features and impenetrable nested menus real make them difficult to use...

Hello Swamp,

I agree that many cameras today have menus buried inside menus. I’ve made my living as a commercial photographer for decades and some of those “simple” point and shoot cameras make my head spin.

Maybe because I began with manual camera and a hand held meter but whatever the reason the choices that include blinking lights, images of mountain ranges and soccer players are not helpful.

I don’t want to steer you away from Canon if you’re comfortable with the brand. They are an excellent company but I’m mostly familiar with Nikon and Sony (excluding large pro cameras).

If you want SLR the Nikon D800 or D810 (about 36 MP) are more resolution than most people can use. It would supply quality images to meet any use you might have including very large prints and plenty of image quality to do drastic crops and still have sharpness to spare.

Nikon

If you want smaller, more economical and simpler than an SLR the Sony A6000 (24 MP) has very good resolution, is super lightweight and is fun to use. It produces amazing images and although not the ultimate resolution of the Nikon it’s what I use when I go out to capture images for fun. The Sony sensor shares color personality with Nikon and for good reason. They supply the 36 MP sensor for Nikon.

Sony

Sony offers custom Zeiss zoom lenses in their mount system. Zeiss glass is expensive but color is excellent, same company that made glass for Hasselblad (moon camera).

Safe place to buy either is B&H in New York if you don’t have someone local. They are incredibly honest, not like some mail order houses that promise and don’t deliver.

Feel free to email me if you need help or I’m glad to spend phone time. Hope whatever you choose you and your wife enjoy the creative time together.

albertporter

Owner
Swampwalker
.....can recommend an advanced amateur digital SLR? We've got some decent point and shoot for snapshots but my wife would like to get back to doing some more "artistic" photography when she retires next year.

We've both used film SLRs in the past (Canon Rebel) but neither of us has done much more than snapshooting w digital cameras. The plethora of unnecessary features and impenetrable nested menus real make them difficult to use...

Hello Swamp,

I agree that many cameras today have menus buried inside menus. I’ve made my living as a commercial photographer for decades and some of those “simple” point and shoot cameras make my head spin.

Maybe because I began with manual camera and a hand held meter but whatever the reason the choices that include blinking lights, images of mountain ranges and soccer players are not helpful.

I don’t want to steer you away from Canon if you’re comfortable with the brand. They are an excellent company but I’m mostly familiar with Nikon and Sony (excluding large pro cameras).

If you want SLR the Nikon D800 or D810 (about 36 MP) are more resolution than most people can use. It would supply quality images to meet any use you might have including very large prints and plenty of image quality to do drastic crops and still have sharpness to spare.

Nikon

If you want smaller, more economical and simpler than an SLR the Sony A6000 (24 MP) has very good resolution, is super lightweight and is fun to use. It produces amazing images and although not the ultimate resolution of the Nikon it’s what I use when I go out to capture images for fun. The Sony sensor shares color personality with Nikon and for good reason. They supply the 36 MP sensor for Nikon.

Sony

Sony offers custom Zeiss zoom lenses in their mount system. Zeiss glass is expensive but color is excellent, same company that made glass for Hasselblad (moon camera).

Safe place to buy either is B&H in New York if you don’t have someone local. They are incredibly honest, not like some mail order houses that promise and don’t deliver.

Feel free to email me if you need help or I’m glad to spend phone time. Hope whatever you choose you and your wife enjoy the creative time together.

albertporter

Owner
Swampwalker
.....can recommend an advanced amateur digital SLR? We've got some decent point and shoot for snapshots but my wife would like to get back to doing some more "artistic" photography when she retires next year.

We've both used film SLRs in the past (Canon Rebel) but neither of us has done much more than snapshooting w digital cameras. The plethora of unnecessary features and impenetrable nested menus real make them difficult to use...

Hello Swamp,

I agree that many cameras today have menus buried inside menus. I’ve made my living as a commercial photographer for decades and some of those “simple” point and shoot cameras make my head spin.

Maybe because I began with manual camera and a hand held meter but whatever the reason the choices that include blinking lights, images of mountain ranges and soccer players are not helpful.

I don’t want to steer you away from Canon if you’re comfortable with the brand. They are an excellent company but I’m mostly familiar with Nikon and Sony (excluding large pro cameras).

If you want SLR the Nikon D800 or D810 (about 36 MP) are more resolution than most people can use. It would supply quality images to meet any use you might have including very large prints and plenty of image quality to do drastic crops and still have sharpness to spare.

Nikon

If you want smaller, more economical and simpler than an SLR the Sony A6000 (24 MP) has very good resolution, is super lightweight and is fun to use. It produces amazing images and although not the ultimate resolution of the Nikon it’s what I use when I go out to capture images for fun. The Sony sensor shares color personality with Nikon and for good reason. They supply the 36 MP sensor for Nikon.

Sony

Sony offers custom Zeiss zoom lenses in their mount system. Zeiss glass is expensive but color is excellent, same company that made glass for Hasselblad (moon camera).

Safe place to buy either is B&H in New York if you don’t have someone local. They are incredibly honest, not like some mail order houses that promise and don’t deliver.

Feel free to email me if you need help or I’m glad to spend phone time. Hope whatever you choose you and your wife enjoy the creative time together.

albertporter

Owner
Zephyr24069,

That’s very good information but I was concerned with maximum download speed available here in our neighborhood with AT&T. We have 45MB (promised) but still Netflix occasionally skips and then plays catch up. Unknown if AT&T is messing with them, the Netflix server is overloaded or ?

I’m currently using Amazon Fire TV to stream Netflix and Amazon Prime and the Fire TV is connected via Ethernet so whatever bandwidth is available is “supposed“ to be dependability delivered via that connection.

I have the same issue using Netflix through the Oppo BDP-105D so it’s not an issue with the Amazon Fire box. Hence my concerned when and if we go 4K. That has to be more strain on the delivery system.

Even more off topic, Time Warner claim to be offering 300MB down in our area but last time I had their service it was down at least 20% of the time.

albertporter

Owner
Zephyr24069,

That’s very good information but I was concerned with maximum download speed available here in our neighborhood with AT&T. We have 45MB (promised) but still Netflix occasionally skips and then plays catch up. Unknown if AT&T is messing with them, the Netflix server is overloaded or ?

I’m currently using Amazon Fire TV to stream Netflix and Amazon Prime and the Fire TV is connected via Ethernet so whatever bandwidth is available is “supposed“ to be dependability delivered via that connection.

I have the same issue using Netflix through the Oppo BDP-105D so it’s not an issue with the Amazon Fire box. Hence my concerned when and if we go 4K. That has to be more strain on the delivery system.

Even more off topic, Time Warner claim to be offering 300MB down in our area but last time I had their service it was down at least 20% of the time.

albertporter

Owner
Zephyr24069,

That’s very good information but I was concerned with maximum download speed available here in our neighborhood with AT&T. We have 45MB (promised) but still Netflix occasionally skips and then plays catch up. Unknown if AT&T is messing with them, the Netflix server is overloaded or ?

I’m currently using Amazon Fire TV to stream Netflix and Amazon Prime and the Fire TV is connected via Ethernet so whatever bandwidth is available is “supposed“ to be dependability delivered via that connection.

I have the same issue using Netflix through the Oppo BDP-105D so it’s not an issue with the Amazon Fire box. Hence my concerned when and if we go 4K. That has to be more strain on the delivery system.

Even more off topic, Time Warner claim to be offering 300MB down in our area but last time I had their service it was down at least 20% of the time.

albertporter

Owner
Zephyr24069,

That’s very good information but I was concerned with maximum download speed available here in our neighborhood with AT&T. We have 45MB (promised) but still Netflix occasionally skips and then plays catch up. Unknown if AT&T is messing with them, the Netflix server is overloaded or ?

I’m currently using Amazon Fire TV to stream Netflix and Amazon Prime and the Fire TV is connected via Ethernet so whatever bandwidth is available is “supposed“ to be dependability delivered via that connection.

I have the same issue using Netflix through the Oppo BDP-105D so it’s not an issue with the Amazon Fire box. Hence my concerned when and if we go 4K. That has to be more strain on the delivery system.

Even more off topic, Time Warner claim to be offering 300MB down in our area but last time I had their service it was down at least 20% of the time.

albertporter

Owner
Zephyr24069,

That’s very good information but I was concerned with maximum download speed available here in our neighborhood with AT&T. We have 45MB (promised) but still Netflix occasionally skips and then plays catch up. Unknown if AT&T is messing with them, the Netflix server is overloaded or ?

I’m currently using Amazon Fire TV to stream Netflix and Amazon Prime and the Fire TV is connected via Ethernet so whatever bandwidth is available is “supposed“ to be dependability delivered via that connection.

I have the same issue using Netflix through the Oppo BDP-105D so it’s not an issue with the Amazon Fire box. Hence my concerned when and if we go 4K. That has to be more strain on the delivery system.

Even more off topic, Time Warner claim to be offering 300MB down in our area but last time I had their service it was down at least 20% of the time.

albertporter

Owner
Zephyr24069,

That’s very good information but I was concerned with maximum download speed available here in our neighborhood with AT&T. We have 45MB (promised) but still Netflix occasionally skips and then plays catch up. Unknown if AT&T is messing with them, the Netflix server is overloaded or ?

I’m currently using Amazon Fire TV to stream Netflix and Amazon Prime and the Fire TV is connected via Ethernet so whatever bandwidth is available is “supposed“ to be dependability delivered via that connection.

I have the same issue using Netflix through the Oppo BDP-105D so it’s not an issue with the Amazon Fire box. Hence my concerned when and if we go 4K. That has to be more strain on the delivery system.

Even more off topic, Time Warner claim to be offering 300MB down in our area but last time I had their service it was down at least 20% of the time.

albertporter

Owner
Zephyr24069,

That’s very good information but I was concerned with maximum download speed available here in our neighborhood with AT&T. We have 45MB (promised) but still Netflix occasionally skips and then plays catch up. Unknown if AT&T is messing with them, the Netflix server is overloaded or ?

I’m currently using Amazon Fire TV to stream Netflix and Amazon Prime and the Fire TV is connected via Ethernet so whatever bandwidth is available is “supposed“ to be dependability delivered via that connection.

I have the same issue using Netflix through the Oppo BDP-105D so it’s not an issue with the Amazon Fire box. Hence my concerned when and if we go 4K. That has to be more strain on the delivery system.

Even more off topic, Time Warner claim to be offering 300MB down in our area but last time I had their service it was down at least 20% of the time.

albertporter

Owner
Zephyr24069,

That’s very good information but I was concerned with maximum download speed available here in our neighborhood with AT&T. We have 45MB (promised) but still Netflix occasionally skips and then plays catch up. Unknown if AT&T is messing with them, the Netflix server is overloaded or ?

I’m currently using Amazon Fire TV to stream Netflix and Amazon Prime and the Fire TV is connected via Ethernet so whatever bandwidth is available is “supposed“ to be dependability delivered via that connection.

I have the same issue using Netflix through the Oppo BDP-105D so it’s not an issue with the Amazon Fire box. Hence my concerned when and if we go 4K. That has to be more strain on the delivery system.

Even more off topic, Time Warner claim to be offering 300MB down in our area but last time I had their service it was down at least 20% of the time.

albertporter

Owner
Zephyr24069,

That’s very good information but I was concerned with maximum download speed available here in our neighborhood with AT&T. We have 45MB (promised) but still Netflix occasionally skips and then plays catch up. Unknown if AT&T is messing with them, the Netflix server is overloaded or ?

I’m currently using Amazon Fire TV to stream Netflix and Amazon Prime and the Fire TV is connected via Ethernet so whatever bandwidth is available is “supposed“ to be dependability delivered via that connection.

I have the same issue using Netflix through the Oppo BDP-105D so it’s not an issue with the Amazon Fire box. Hence my concerned when and if we go 4K. That has to be more strain on the delivery system.

Even more off topic, Time Warner claim to be offering 300MB down in our area but last time I had their service it was down at least 20% of the time.

albertporter

Owner
Zephyr24069,

That’s very good information but I was concerned with maximum download speed available here in our neighborhood with AT&T. We have 45MB (promised) but still Netflix occasionally skips and then plays catch up. Unknown if AT&T is messing with them, the Netflix server is overloaded or ?

I’m currently using Amazon Fire TV to stream Netflix and Amazon Prime and the Fire TV is connected via Ethernet so whatever bandwidth is available is “supposed“ to be dependability delivered via that connection.

I have the same issue using Netflix through the Oppo BDP-105D so it’s not an issue with the Amazon Fire box. Hence my concerned when and if we go 4K. That has to be more strain on the delivery system.

Even more off topic, Time Warner claim to be offering 300MB down in our area but last time I had their service it was down at least 20% of the time.

albertporter

Owner
Zephyr24069,

That’s very good information but I was concerned with maximum download speed available here in our neighborhood with AT&T. We have 45MB (promised) but still Netflix occasionally skips and then plays catch up. Unknown if AT&T is messing with them, the Netflix server is overloaded or ?

I’m currently using Amazon Fire TV to stream Netflix and Amazon Prime and the Fire TV is connected via Ethernet so whatever bandwidth is available is “supposed“ to be dependability delivered via that connection.

I have the same issue using Netflix through the Oppo BDP-105D so it’s not an issue with the Amazon Fire box. Hence my concerned when and if we go 4K. That has to be more strain on the delivery system.

Even more off topic, Time Warner claim to be offering 300MB down in our area but last time I had their service it was down at least 20% of the time.

albertporter

Owner
Zephyr24069,

That’s very good information but I was concerned with maximum download speed available here in our neighborhood with AT&T. We have 45MB (promised) but still Netflix occasionally skips and then plays catch up. Unknown if AT&T is messing with them, the Netflix server is overloaded or ?

I’m currently using Amazon Fire TV to stream Netflix and Amazon Prime and the Fire TV is connected via Ethernet so whatever bandwidth is available is “supposed“ to be dependability delivered via that connection.

I have the same issue using Netflix through the Oppo BDP-105D so it’s not an issue with the Amazon Fire box. Hence my concerned when and if we go 4K. That has to be more strain on the delivery system.

Even more off topic, Time Warner claim to be offering 300MB down in our area but last time I had their service it was down at least 20% of the time.

albertporter

Owner
Zephyr24069,

That’s very good information but I was concerned with maximum download speed available here in our neighborhood with AT&T. We have 45MB (promised) but still Netflix occasionally skips and then plays catch up. Unknown if AT&T is messing with them, the Netflix server is overloaded or ?

I’m currently using Amazon Fire TV to stream Netflix and Amazon Prime and the Fire TV is connected via Ethernet so whatever bandwidth is available is “supposed“ to be dependability delivered via that connection.

I have the same issue using Netflix through the Oppo BDP-105D so it’s not an issue with the Amazon Fire box. Hence my concerned when and if we go 4K. That has to be more strain on the delivery system.

Even more off topic, Time Warner claim to be offering 300MB down in our area but last time I had their service it was down at least 20% of the time.

albertporter

Owner
Zephyr24069,

That’s very good information but I was concerned with maximum download speed available here in our neighborhood with AT&T. We have 45MB (promised) but still Netflix occasionally skips and then plays catch up. Unknown if AT&T is messing with them, the Netflix server is overloaded or ?

I’m currently using Amazon Fire TV to stream Netflix and Amazon Prime and the Fire TV is connected via Ethernet so whatever bandwidth is available is “supposed“ to be dependability delivered via that connection.

I have the same issue using Netflix through the Oppo BDP-105D so it’s not an issue with the Amazon Fire box. Hence my concerned when and if we go 4K. That has to be more strain on the delivery system.

Even more off topic, Time Warner claim to be offering 300MB down in our area but last time I had their service it was down at least 20% of the time.

albertporter

Owner
Zephyr24069,

That’s very good information but I was concerned with maximum download speed available here in our neighborhood with AT&T. We have 45MB (promised) but still Netflix occasionally skips and then plays catch up. Unknown if AT&T is messing with them, the Netflix server is overloaded or ?

I’m currently using Amazon Fire TV to stream Netflix and Amazon Prime and the Fire TV is connected via Ethernet so whatever bandwidth is available is “supposed“ to be dependability delivered via that connection.

I have the same issue using Netflix through the Oppo BDP-105D so it’s not an issue with the Amazon Fire box. Hence my concerned when and if we go 4K. That has to be more strain on the delivery system.

Even more off topic, Time Warner claim to be offering 300MB down in our area but last time I had their service it was down at least 20% of the time.

albertporter

Owner
Zephyr24069,

That’s very good information but I was concerned with maximum download speed available here in our neighborhood with AT&T. We have 45MB (promised) but still Netflix occasionally skips and then plays catch up. Unknown if AT&T is messing with them, the Netflix server is overloaded or ?

I’m currently using Amazon Fire TV to stream Netflix and Amazon Prime and the Fire TV is connected via Ethernet so whatever bandwidth is available is “supposed“ to be dependability delivered via that connection.

I have the same issue using Netflix through the Oppo BDP-105D so it’s not an issue with the Amazon Fire box. Hence my concerned when and if we go 4K. That has to be more strain on the delivery system.

Even more off topic, Time Warner claim to be offering 300MB down in our area but last time I had their service it was down at least 20% of the time.

albertporter

Owner
Zephyr24069,

That’s very good information but I was concerned with maximum download speed available here in our neighborhood with AT&T. We have 45MB (promised) but still Netflix occasionally skips and then plays catch up. Unknown if AT&T is messing with them, the Netflix server is overloaded or ?

I’m currently using Amazon Fire TV to stream Netflix and Amazon Prime and the Fire TV is connected via Ethernet so whatever bandwidth is available is “supposed“ to be dependability delivered via that connection.

I have the same issue using Netflix through the Oppo BDP-105D so it’s not an issue with the Amazon Fire box. Hence my concerned when and if we go 4K. That has to be more strain on the delivery system.

Even more off topic, Time Warner claim to be offering 300MB down in our area but last time I had their service it was down at least 20% of the time.

albertporter

Owner
Zephyr24069,

That’s very good information but I was concerned with maximum download speed available here in our neighborhood with AT&T. We have 45MB (promised) but still Netflix occasionally skips and then plays catch up. Unknown if AT&T is messing with them, the Netflix server is overloaded or ?

I’m currently using Amazon Fire TV to stream Netflix and Amazon Prime and the Fire TV is connected via Ethernet so whatever bandwidth is available is “supposed“ to be dependability delivered via that connection.

I have the same issue using Netflix through the Oppo BDP-105D so it’s not an issue with the Amazon Fire box. Hence my concerned when and if we go 4K. That has to be more strain on the delivery system.

Even more off topic, Time Warner claim to be offering 300MB down in our area but last time I had their service it was down at least 20% of the time.

albertporter

Owner
Zephyr24069,

That’s very good information but I was concerned with maximum download speed available here in our neighborhood with AT&T. We have 45MB (promised) but still Netflix occasionally skips and then plays catch up. Unknown if AT&T is messing with them, the Netflix server is overloaded or ?

I’m currently using Amazon Fire TV to stream Netflix and Amazon Prime and the Fire TV is connected via Ethernet so whatever bandwidth is available is “supposed“ to be dependability delivered via that connection.

I have the same issue using Netflix through the Oppo BDP-105D so it’s not an issue with the Amazon Fire box. Hence my concerned when and if we go 4K. That has to be more strain on the delivery system.

Even more off topic, Time Warner claim to be offering 300MB down in our area but last time I had their service it was down at least 20% of the time.

albertporter

Owner
Zephyr24069,

That’s very good information but I was concerned with maximum download speed available here in our neighborhood with AT&T. We have 45MB (promised) but still Netflix occasionally skips and then plays catch up. Unknown if AT&T is messing with them, the Netflix server is overloaded or ?

I’m currently using Amazon Fire TV to stream Netflix and Amazon Prime and the Fire TV is connected via Ethernet so whatever bandwidth is available is “supposed“ to be dependability delivered via that connection.

I have the same issue using Netflix through the Oppo BDP-105D so it’s not an issue with the Amazon Fire box. Hence my concerned when and if we go 4K. That has to be more strain on the delivery system.

Even more off topic, Time Warner claim to be offering 300MB down in our area but last time I had their service it was down at least 20% of the time.

albertporter

Owner
Zephyr24069,

That’s very good information but I was concerned with maximum download speed available here in our neighborhood with AT&T. We have 45MB (promised) but still Netflix occasionally skips and then plays catch up. Unknown if AT&T is messing with them, the Netflix server is overloaded or ?

I’m currently using Amazon Fire TV to stream Netflix and Amazon Prime and the Fire TV is connected via Ethernet so whatever bandwidth is available is “supposed“ to be dependability delivered via that connection.

I have the same issue using Netflix through the Oppo BDP-105D so it’s not an issue with the Amazon Fire box. Hence my concerned when and if we go 4K. That has to be more strain on the delivery system.

Even more off topic, Time Warner claim to be offering 300MB down in our area but last time I had their service it was down at least 20% of the time.

albertporter

Owner
Zephyr24069,

That’s very good information but I was concerned with maximum download speed available here in our neighborhood with AT&T. We have 45MB (promised) but still Netflix occasionally skips and then plays catch up. Unknown if AT&T is messing with them, the Netflix server is overloaded or ?

I’m currently using Amazon Fire TV to stream Netflix and Amazon Prime and the Fire TV is connected via Ethernet so whatever bandwidth is available is “supposed“ to be dependability delivered via that connection.

I have the same issue using Netflix through the Oppo BDP-105D so it’s not an issue with the Amazon Fire box. Hence my concerned when and if we go 4K. That has to be more strain on the delivery system.

Even more off topic, Time Warner claim to be offering 300MB down in our area but last time I had their service it was down at least 20% of the time.

albertporter

Owner
Zephyr24069,

That’s very good information but I was concerned with maximum download speed available here in our neighborhood with AT&T. We have 45MB (promised) but still Netflix occasionally skips and then plays catch up. Unknown if AT&T is messing with them, the Netflix server is overloaded or ?

I’m currently using Amazon Fire TV to stream Netflix and Amazon Prime and the Fire TV is connected via Ethernet so whatever bandwidth is available is “supposed“ to be dependability delivered via that connection.

I have the same issue using Netflix through the Oppo BDP-105D so it’s not an issue with the Amazon Fire box. Hence my concerned when and if we go 4K. That has to be more strain on the delivery system.

Even more off topic, Time Warner claim to be offering 300MB down in our area but last time I had their service it was down at least 20% of the time.

albertporter

Owner
Zephyr24069,

That’s very good information but I was concerned with maximum download speed available here in our neighborhood with AT&T. We have 45MB (promised) but still Netflix occasionally skips and then plays catch up. Unknown if AT&T is messing with them, the Netflix server is overloaded or ?

I’m currently using Amazon Fire TV to stream Netflix and Amazon Prime and the Fire TV is connected via Ethernet so whatever bandwidth is available is “supposed“ to be dependability delivered via that connection.

I have the same issue using Netflix through the Oppo BDP-105D so it’s not an issue with the Amazon Fire box. Hence my concerned when and if we go 4K. That has to be more strain on the delivery system.

Even more off topic, Time Warner claim to be offering 300MB down in our area but last time I had their service it was down at least 20% of the time.

albertporter

Owner
Peter_s
Looks like $199 is just the deposit.

You’re right, guess that was wishful thinking on my part.

albertporter

Owner
Peter_s
Looks like $199 is just the deposit.

You’re right, guess that was wishful thinking on my part.

albertporter

Owner
Peter_s
Looks like $199 is just the deposit.

You’re right, guess that was wishful thinking on my part.

albertporter

Owner
Peter_s
Looks like $199 is just the deposit.

You’re right, guess that was wishful thinking on my part.

albertporter

Owner
Peter_s
Looks like $199 is just the deposit.

You’re right, guess that was wishful thinking on my part.

albertporter

Owner
Peter_s
Looks like $199 is just the deposit.

You’re right, guess that was wishful thinking on my part.

albertporter

Owner
Peter_s
Looks like $199 is just the deposit.

You’re right, guess that was wishful thinking on my part.

albertporter

Owner
Peter_s
Looks like $199 is just the deposit.

You’re right, guess that was wishful thinking on my part.

albertporter

Owner
Peter_s
Looks like $199 is just the deposit.

You’re right, guess that was wishful thinking on my part.

albertporter

Owner
Peter_s
Looks like $199 is just the deposit.

You’re right, guess that was wishful thinking on my part.

albertporter

Owner
Peter_s
Looks like $199 is just the deposit.

You’re right, guess that was wishful thinking on my part.

albertporter

Owner
Peter_s
Looks like $199 is just the deposit.

You’re right, guess that was wishful thinking on my part.

albertporter

Owner
Peter_s
Looks like $199 is just the deposit.

You’re right, guess that was wishful thinking on my part.

albertporter

Owner
Peter_s
Looks like $199 is just the deposit.

You’re right, guess that was wishful thinking on my part.

albertporter

Owner
Peter_s
Looks like $199 is just the deposit.

You’re right, guess that was wishful thinking on my part.

albertporter

Owner
Peter_s
Looks like $199 is just the deposit.

You’re right, guess that was wishful thinking on my part.

albertporter

Owner
Peter_s
Looks like $199 is just the deposit.

You’re right, guess that was wishful thinking on my part.

albertporter

Owner
Peter_s
Looks like $199 is just the deposit.

You’re right, guess that was wishful thinking on my part.

albertporter

Owner
Peter_s
Looks like $199 is just the deposit.

You’re right, guess that was wishful thinking on my part.

albertporter

Owner
Peter_s
Looks like $199 is just the deposit.

You’re right, guess that was wishful thinking on my part.

albertporter

Owner
Peter_s
Looks like $199 is just the deposit.

You’re right, guess that was wishful thinking on my part.

albertporter

Owner
Peter_s
Looks like $199 is just the deposit.

You’re right, guess that was wishful thinking on my part.

albertporter

Owner
Peter_s
Looks like $199 is just the deposit.

You’re right, guess that was wishful thinking on my part.

albertporter

Owner
Peter_s
Looks like $199 is just the deposit.

You’re right, guess that was wishful thinking on my part.

albertporter

Owner
Mapman
That camera is very cool. I'll be very interested to see what it can do. Some new stereo imaging and maybe low light related twists on conventional home photography should be possible, especially out of a smaller package..

Agree and since the camera achieves it’s ultra high MP rate via multiple smaller cameras stitched together, there are operations to reduce corner softness and light fall off as well as operating in available dark rather than available light :-).

albertporter

Owner
Mapman
That camera is very cool. I'll be very interested to see what it can do. Some new stereo imaging and maybe low light related twists on conventional home photography should be possible, especially out of a smaller package..

Agree and since the camera achieves it’s ultra high MP rate via multiple smaller cameras stitched together, there are operations to reduce corner softness and light fall off as well as operating in available dark rather than available light :-).

albertporter

Owner
Mapman
That camera is very cool. I'll be very interested to see what it can do. Some new stereo imaging and maybe low light related twists on conventional home photography should be possible, especially out of a smaller package..

Agree and since the camera achieves it’s ultra high MP rate via multiple smaller cameras stitched together, there are operations to reduce corner softness and light fall off as well as operating in available dark rather than available light :-).

albertporter

Owner
Mapman
That camera is very cool. I'll be very interested to see what it can do. Some new stereo imaging and maybe low light related twists on conventional home photography should be possible, especially out of a smaller package..

Agree and since the camera achieves it’s ultra high MP rate via multiple smaller cameras stitched together, there are operations to reduce corner softness and light fall off as well as operating in available dark rather than available light :-).

albertporter

Owner
Mapman
That camera is very cool. I'll be very interested to see what it can do. Some new stereo imaging and maybe low light related twists on conventional home photography should be possible, especially out of a smaller package..

Agree and since the camera achieves it’s ultra high MP rate via multiple smaller cameras stitched together, there are operations to reduce corner softness and light fall off as well as operating in available dark rather than available light :-).

albertporter

Owner
Mapman
That camera is very cool. I'll be very interested to see what it can do. Some new stereo imaging and maybe low light related twists on conventional home photography should be possible, especially out of a smaller package..

Agree and since the camera achieves it’s ultra high MP rate via multiple smaller cameras stitched together, there are operations to reduce corner softness and light fall off as well as operating in available dark rather than available light :-).

albertporter

Owner
Mapman
That camera is very cool. I'll be very interested to see what it can do. Some new stereo imaging and maybe low light related twists on conventional home photography should be possible, especially out of a smaller package..

Agree and since the camera achieves it’s ultra high MP rate via multiple smaller cameras stitched together, there are operations to reduce corner softness and light fall off as well as operating in available dark rather than available light :-).

albertporter

Owner
Mapman
That camera is very cool. I'll be very interested to see what it can do. Some new stereo imaging and maybe low light related twists on conventional home photography should be possible, especially out of a smaller package..

Agree and since the camera achieves it’s ultra high MP rate via multiple smaller cameras stitched together, there are operations to reduce corner softness and light fall off as well as operating in available dark rather than available light :-).

albertporter

Owner
Mapman
That camera is very cool. I'll be very interested to see what it can do. Some new stereo imaging and maybe low light related twists on conventional home photography should be possible, especially out of a smaller package..

Agree and since the camera achieves it’s ultra high MP rate via multiple smaller cameras stitched together, there are operations to reduce corner softness and light fall off as well as operating in available dark rather than available light :-).

albertporter

Owner
Mapman
That camera is very cool. I'll be very interested to see what it can do. Some new stereo imaging and maybe low light related twists on conventional home photography should be possible, especially out of a smaller package..

Agree and since the camera achieves it’s ultra high MP rate via multiple smaller cameras stitched together, there are operations to reduce corner softness and light fall off as well as operating in available dark rather than available light :-).

albertporter

Owner
Mapman
That camera is very cool. I'll be very interested to see what it can do. Some new stereo imaging and maybe low light related twists on conventional home photography should be possible, especially out of a smaller package..

Agree and since the camera achieves it’s ultra high MP rate via multiple smaller cameras stitched together, there are operations to reduce corner softness and light fall off as well as operating in available dark rather than available light :-).

albertporter

Owner
Mapman
That camera is very cool. I'll be very interested to see what it can do. Some new stereo imaging and maybe low light related twists on conventional home photography should be possible, especially out of a smaller package..

Agree and since the camera achieves it’s ultra high MP rate via multiple smaller cameras stitched together, there are operations to reduce corner softness and light fall off as well as operating in available dark rather than available light :-).

albertporter

Owner
Mapman
That camera is very cool. I'll be very interested to see what it can do. Some new stereo imaging and maybe low light related twists on conventional home photography should be possible, especially out of a smaller package..

Agree and since the camera achieves it’s ultra high MP rate via multiple smaller cameras stitched together, there are operations to reduce corner softness and light fall off as well as operating in available dark rather than available light :-).

albertporter

Owner
Mapman
That camera is very cool. I'll be very interested to see what it can do. Some new stereo imaging and maybe low light related twists on conventional home photography should be possible, especially out of a smaller package..

Agree and since the camera achieves it’s ultra high MP rate via multiple smaller cameras stitched together, there are operations to reduce corner softness and light fall off as well as operating in available dark rather than available light :-).

albertporter

Owner
Mapman
That camera is very cool. I'll be very interested to see what it can do. Some new stereo imaging and maybe low light related twists on conventional home photography should be possible, especially out of a smaller package..

Agree and since the camera achieves it’s ultra high MP rate via multiple smaller cameras stitched together, there are operations to reduce corner softness and light fall off as well as operating in available dark rather than available light :-).

albertporter

Owner
Mapman
That camera is very cool. I'll be very interested to see what it can do. Some new stereo imaging and maybe low light related twists on conventional home photography should be possible, especially out of a smaller package..

Agree and since the camera achieves it’s ultra high MP rate via multiple smaller cameras stitched together, there are operations to reduce corner softness and light fall off as well as operating in available dark rather than available light :-).

albertporter

Owner
Mapman
That camera is very cool. I'll be very interested to see what it can do. Some new stereo imaging and maybe low light related twists on conventional home photography should be possible, especially out of a smaller package..

Agree and since the camera achieves it’s ultra high MP rate via multiple smaller cameras stitched together, there are operations to reduce corner softness and light fall off as well as operating in available dark rather than available light :-).

albertporter

Owner
Mapman
That camera is very cool. I'll be very interested to see what it can do. Some new stereo imaging and maybe low light related twists on conventional home photography should be possible, especially out of a smaller package..

Agree and since the camera achieves it’s ultra high MP rate via multiple smaller cameras stitched together, there are operations to reduce corner softness and light fall off as well as operating in available dark rather than available light :-).

albertporter

Owner
Mapman
That camera is very cool. I'll be very interested to see what it can do. Some new stereo imaging and maybe low light related twists on conventional home photography should be possible, especially out of a smaller package..

Agree and since the camera achieves it’s ultra high MP rate via multiple smaller cameras stitched together, there are operations to reduce corner softness and light fall off as well as operating in available dark rather than available light :-).

albertporter

Owner
Mapman
That camera is very cool. I'll be very interested to see what it can do. Some new stereo imaging and maybe low light related twists on conventional home photography should be possible, especially out of a smaller package..

Agree and since the camera achieves it’s ultra high MP rate via multiple smaller cameras stitched together, there are operations to reduce corner softness and light fall off as well as operating in available dark rather than available light :-).

albertporter

Owner
Mapman
That camera is very cool. I'll be very interested to see what it can do. Some new stereo imaging and maybe low light related twists on conventional home photography should be possible, especially out of a smaller package..

Agree and since the camera achieves it’s ultra high MP rate via multiple smaller cameras stitched together, there are operations to reduce corner softness and light fall off as well as operating in available dark rather than available light :-).

albertporter

Owner
Mapman
That camera is very cool. I'll be very interested to see what it can do. Some new stereo imaging and maybe low light related twists on conventional home photography should be possible, especially out of a smaller package..

Agree and since the camera achieves it’s ultra high MP rate via multiple smaller cameras stitched together, there are operations to reduce corner softness and light fall off as well as operating in available dark rather than available light :-).

albertporter

Owner
Mapman
That camera is very cool. I'll be very interested to see what it can do. Some new stereo imaging and maybe low light related twists on conventional home photography should be possible, especially out of a smaller package..

Agree and since the camera achieves it’s ultra high MP rate via multiple smaller cameras stitched together, there are operations to reduce corner softness and light fall off as well as operating in available dark rather than available light :-).

albertporter

Owner
Mapman
That camera is very cool. I'll be very interested to see what it can do. Some new stereo imaging and maybe low light related twists on conventional home photography should be possible, especially out of a smaller package..

Agree and since the camera achieves it’s ultra high MP rate via multiple smaller cameras stitched together, there are operations to reduce corner softness and light fall off as well as operating in available dark rather than available light :-).

albertporter

Owner
Mapman
That camera is very cool. I'll be very interested to see what it can do. Some new stereo imaging and maybe low light related twists on conventional home photography should be possible, especially out of a smaller package..

Agree and since the camera achieves it’s ultra high MP rate via multiple smaller cameras stitched together, there are operations to reduce corner softness and light fall off as well as operating in available dark rather than available light :-).

albertporter

Owner
Mapman
That camera is very cool. I'll be very interested to see what it can do. Some new stereo imaging and maybe low light related twists on conventional home photography should be possible, especially out of a smaller package..

Agree and since the camera achieves it’s ultra high MP rate via multiple smaller cameras stitched together, there are operations to reduce corner softness and light fall off as well as operating in available dark rather than available light :-).

albertporter

Owner
Jfrech
That is a cool camera. Love the fresh idea. How much is it? Couldn't find it in the website...

Introductory price is $199.00 and it achieves it’s resolution by stitching multiple small cameras together. Think iPhone or Samsung panorama mode but on large scale.

It’s actually a great idea and if you watch the video it shows how much control the user has over final image.

albertporter

Owner
Jfrech
That is a cool camera. Love the fresh idea. How much is it? Couldn't find it in the website...

Introductory price is $199.00 and it achieves it’s resolution by stitching multiple small cameras together. Think iPhone or Samsung panorama mode but on large scale.

It’s actually a great idea and if you watch the video it shows how much control the user has over final image.

albertporter

Owner
Jfrech
That is a cool camera. Love the fresh idea. How much is it? Couldn't find it in the website...

Introductory price is $199.00 and it achieves it’s resolution by stitching multiple small cameras together. Think iPhone or Samsung panorama mode but on large scale.

It’s actually a great idea and if you watch the video it shows how much control the user has over final image.

albertporter

Owner
Jfrech
That is a cool camera. Love the fresh idea. How much is it? Couldn't find it in the website...

Introductory price is $199.00 and it achieves it’s resolution by stitching multiple small cameras together. Think iPhone or Samsung panorama mode but on large scale.

It’s actually a great idea and if you watch the video it shows how much control the user has over final image.

albertporter

Owner
Jfrech
That is a cool camera. Love the fresh idea. How much is it? Couldn't find it in the website...

Introductory price is $199.00 and it achieves it’s resolution by stitching multiple small cameras together. Think iPhone or Samsung panorama mode but on large scale.

It’s actually a great idea and if you watch the video it shows how much control the user has over final image.

albertporter

Owner
Jfrech
That is a cool camera. Love the fresh idea. How much is it? Couldn't find it in the website...

Introductory price is $199.00 and it achieves it’s resolution by stitching multiple small cameras together. Think iPhone or Samsung panorama mode but on large scale.

It’s actually a great idea and if you watch the video it shows how much control the user has over final image.

albertporter

Owner
Jfrech
That is a cool camera. Love the fresh idea. How much is it? Couldn't find it in the website...

Introductory price is $199.00 and it achieves it’s resolution by stitching multiple small cameras together. Think iPhone or Samsung panorama mode but on large scale.

It’s actually a great idea and if you watch the video it shows how much control the user has over final image.

albertporter

Owner
Jfrech
That is a cool camera. Love the fresh idea. How much is it? Couldn't find it in the website...

Introductory price is $199.00 and it achieves it’s resolution by stitching multiple small cameras together. Think iPhone or Samsung panorama mode but on large scale.

It’s actually a great idea and if you watch the video it shows how much control the user has over final image.

albertporter

Owner
Jfrech
That is a cool camera. Love the fresh idea. How much is it? Couldn't find it in the website...

Introductory price is $199.00 and it achieves it’s resolution by stitching multiple small cameras together. Think iPhone or Samsung panorama mode but on large scale.

It’s actually a great idea and if you watch the video it shows how much control the user has over final image.

albertporter

Owner
Jfrech
That is a cool camera. Love the fresh idea. How much is it? Couldn't find it in the website...

Introductory price is $199.00 and it achieves it’s resolution by stitching multiple small cameras together. Think iPhone or Samsung panorama mode but on large scale.

It’s actually a great idea and if you watch the video it shows how much control the user has over final image.

albertporter

Owner
Jfrech
That is a cool camera. Love the fresh idea. How much is it? Couldn't find it in the website...

Introductory price is $199.00 and it achieves it’s resolution by stitching multiple small cameras together. Think iPhone or Samsung panorama mode but on large scale.

It’s actually a great idea and if you watch the video it shows how much control the user has over final image.

albertporter

Owner
Jfrech
That is a cool camera. Love the fresh idea. How much is it? Couldn't find it in the website...

Introductory price is $199.00 and it achieves it’s resolution by stitching multiple small cameras together. Think iPhone or Samsung panorama mode but on large scale.

It’s actually a great idea and if you watch the video it shows how much control the user has over final image.

albertporter

Owner
Jfrech
That is a cool camera. Love the fresh idea. How much is it? Couldn't find it in the website...

Introductory price is $199.00 and it achieves it’s resolution by stitching multiple small cameras together. Think iPhone or Samsung panorama mode but on large scale.

It’s actually a great idea and if you watch the video it shows how much control the user has over final image.

albertporter

Owner
Jfrech
That is a cool camera. Love the fresh idea. How much is it? Couldn't find it in the website...

Introductory price is $199.00 and it achieves it’s resolution by stitching multiple small cameras together. Think iPhone or Samsung panorama mode but on large scale.

It’s actually a great idea and if you watch the video it shows how much control the user has over final image.

albertporter

Owner
Jfrech
That is a cool camera. Love the fresh idea. How much is it? Couldn't find it in the website...

Introductory price is $199.00 and it achieves it’s resolution by stitching multiple small cameras together. Think iPhone or Samsung panorama mode but on large scale.

It’s actually a great idea and if you watch the video it shows how much control the user has over final image.

albertporter

Owner
Jfrech
That is a cool camera. Love the fresh idea. How much is it? Couldn't find it in the website...

Introductory price is $199.00 and it achieves it’s resolution by stitching multiple small cameras together. Think iPhone or Samsung panorama mode but on large scale.

It’s actually a great idea and if you watch the video it shows how much control the user has over final image.

albertporter

Owner
Jfrech
That is a cool camera. Love the fresh idea. How much is it? Couldn't find it in the website...

Introductory price is $199.00 and it achieves it’s resolution by stitching multiple small cameras together. Think iPhone or Samsung panorama mode but on large scale.

It’s actually a great idea and if you watch the video it shows how much control the user has over final image.

albertporter

Owner
Jfrech
That is a cool camera. Love the fresh idea. How much is it? Couldn't find it in the website...

Introductory price is $199.00 and it achieves it’s resolution by stitching multiple small cameras together. Think iPhone or Samsung panorama mode but on large scale.

It’s actually a great idea and if you watch the video it shows how much control the user has over final image.

albertporter

Owner
Jfrech
That is a cool camera. Love the fresh idea. How much is it? Couldn't find it in the website...

Introductory price is $199.00 and it achieves it’s resolution by stitching multiple small cameras together. Think iPhone or Samsung panorama mode but on large scale.

It’s actually a great idea and if you watch the video it shows how much control the user has over final image.

albertporter

Owner
Jfrech
That is a cool camera. Love the fresh idea. How much is it? Couldn't find it in the website...

Introductory price is $199.00 and it achieves it’s resolution by stitching multiple small cameras together. Think iPhone or Samsung panorama mode but on large scale.

It’s actually a great idea and if you watch the video it shows how much control the user has over final image.

albertporter

Owner
Jfrech
That is a cool camera. Love the fresh idea. How much is it? Couldn't find it in the website...

Introductory price is $199.00 and it achieves it’s resolution by stitching multiple small cameras together. Think iPhone or Samsung panorama mode but on large scale.

It’s actually a great idea and if you watch the video it shows how much control the user has over final image.

albertporter

Owner
Jfrech
That is a cool camera. Love the fresh idea. How much is it? Couldn't find it in the website...

Introductory price is $199.00 and it achieves it’s resolution by stitching multiple small cameras together. Think iPhone or Samsung panorama mode but on large scale.

It’s actually a great idea and if you watch the video it shows how much control the user has over final image.

albertporter

Owner
Jfrech
That is a cool camera. Love the fresh idea. How much is it? Couldn't find it in the website...

Introductory price is $199.00 and it achieves it’s resolution by stitching multiple small cameras together. Think iPhone or Samsung panorama mode but on large scale.

It’s actually a great idea and if you watch the video it shows how much control the user has over final image.

albertporter

Owner
Jfrech
That is a cool camera. Love the fresh idea. How much is it? Couldn't find it in the website...

Introductory price is $199.00 and it achieves it’s resolution by stitching multiple small cameras together. Think iPhone or Samsung panorama mode but on large scale.

It’s actually a great idea and if you watch the video it shows how much control the user has over final image.

albertporter

Owner
Jfrech
That is a cool camera. Love the fresh idea. How much is it? Couldn't find it in the website...

Introductory price is $199.00 and it achieves it’s resolution by stitching multiple small cameras together. Think iPhone or Samsung panorama mode but on large scale.

It’s actually a great idea and if you watch the video it shows how much control the user has over final image.

albertporter

Owner
Jfrech
That is a cool camera. Love the fresh idea. How much is it? Couldn't find it in the website...

Introductory price is $199.00 and it achieves it’s resolution by stitching multiple small cameras together. Think iPhone or Samsung panorama mode but on large scale.

It’s actually a great idea and if you watch the video it shows how much control the user has over final image.

albertporter

Owner

Zephyr24069

..we ending up going with the Samsung UN55HU8550FXZA (55" non-curved) which at the time (the 8550 engine/panel) bested everything else we looked at. Now that LG has resolved the lack of 4K support, their OLED has got to be the best display on the market, bar none.....

I hope internet speed can keep up with streaming 4K, I have problems with regular Netflix during busy times with my (old) Panasonic 65"Plasma.

Hope the Panasonic does not fail, but when it does 4K should be completely sorted out.

I have not seen the 4K LG but prices will go down the longer 4K technology is around. We have a standard 30” LG in the bedroom and it has a great image and has been completely reliable.

albertporter

Owner

Zephyr24069

..we ending up going with the Samsung UN55HU8550FXZA (55" non-curved) which at the time (the 8550 engine/panel) bested everything else we looked at. Now that LG has resolved the lack of 4K support, their OLED has got to be the best display on the market, bar none.....

I hope internet speed can keep up with streaming 4K, I have problems with regular Netflix during busy times with my (old) Panasonic 65"Plasma.

Hope the Panasonic does not fail, but when it does 4K should be completely sorted out.

I have not seen the 4K LG but prices will go down the longer 4K technology is around. We have a standard 30” LG in the bedroom and it has a great image and has been completely reliable.

albertporter

Owner

Zephyr24069

..we ending up going with the Samsung UN55HU8550FXZA (55" non-curved) which at the time (the 8550 engine/panel) bested everything else we looked at. Now that LG has resolved the lack of 4K support, their OLED has got to be the best display on the market, bar none.....

I hope internet speed can keep up with streaming 4K, I have problems with regular Netflix during busy times with my (old) Panasonic 65"Plasma.

Hope the Panasonic does not fail, but when it does 4K should be completely sorted out.

I have not seen the 4K LG but prices will go down the longer 4K technology is around. We have a standard 30” LG in the bedroom and it has a great image and has been completely reliable.

albertporter

Owner

Zephyr24069

..we ending up going with the Samsung UN55HU8550FXZA (55" non-curved) which at the time (the 8550 engine/panel) bested everything else we looked at. Now that LG has resolved the lack of 4K support, their OLED has got to be the best display on the market, bar none.....

I hope internet speed can keep up with streaming 4K, I have problems with regular Netflix during busy times with my (old) Panasonic 65"Plasma.

Hope the Panasonic does not fail, but when it does 4K should be completely sorted out.

I have not seen the 4K LG but prices will go down the longer 4K technology is around. We have a standard 30” LG in the bedroom and it has a great image and has been completely reliable.

albertporter

Owner

Zephyr24069

..we ending up going with the Samsung UN55HU8550FXZA (55" non-curved) which at the time (the 8550 engine/panel) bested everything else we looked at. Now that LG has resolved the lack of 4K support, their OLED has got to be the best display on the market, bar none.....

I hope internet speed can keep up with streaming 4K, I have problems with regular Netflix during busy times with my (old) Panasonic 65"Plasma.

Hope the Panasonic does not fail, but when it does 4K should be completely sorted out.

I have not seen the 4K LG but prices will go down the longer 4K technology is around. We have a standard 30” LG in the bedroom and it has a great image and has been completely reliable.

albertporter

Owner

Zephyr24069

..we ending up going with the Samsung UN55HU8550FXZA (55" non-curved) which at the time (the 8550 engine/panel) bested everything else we looked at. Now that LG has resolved the lack of 4K support, their OLED has got to be the best display on the market, bar none.....

I hope internet speed can keep up with streaming 4K, I have problems with regular Netflix during busy times with my (old) Panasonic 65"Plasma.

Hope the Panasonic does not fail, but when it does 4K should be completely sorted out.

I have not seen the 4K LG but prices will go down the longer 4K technology is around. We have a standard 30” LG in the bedroom and it has a great image and has been completely reliable.

albertporter

Owner

Zephyr24069

..we ending up going with the Samsung UN55HU8550FXZA (55" non-curved) which at the time (the 8550 engine/panel) bested everything else we looked at. Now that LG has resolved the lack of 4K support, their OLED has got to be the best display on the market, bar none.....

I hope internet speed can keep up with streaming 4K, I have problems with regular Netflix during busy times with my (old) Panasonic 65"Plasma.

Hope the Panasonic does not fail, but when it does 4K should be completely sorted out.

I have not seen the 4K LG but prices will go down the longer 4K technology is around. We have a standard 30” LG in the bedroom and it has a great image and has been completely reliable.

albertporter

Owner

Zephyr24069

..we ending up going with the Samsung UN55HU8550FXZA (55" non-curved) which at the time (the 8550 engine/panel) bested everything else we looked at. Now that LG has resolved the lack of 4K support, their OLED has got to be the best display on the market, bar none.....

I hope internet speed can keep up with streaming 4K, I have problems with regular Netflix during busy times with my (old) Panasonic 65"Plasma.

Hope the Panasonic does not fail, but when it does 4K should be completely sorted out.

I have not seen the 4K LG but prices will go down the longer 4K technology is around. We have a standard 30” LG in the bedroom and it has a great image and has been completely reliable.

albertporter

Owner

Zephyr24069

..we ending up going with the Samsung UN55HU8550FXZA (55" non-curved) which at the time (the 8550 engine/panel) bested everything else we looked at. Now that LG has resolved the lack of 4K support, their OLED has got to be the best display on the market, bar none.....

I hope internet speed can keep up with streaming 4K, I have problems with regular Netflix during busy times with my (old) Panasonic 65"Plasma.

Hope the Panasonic does not fail, but when it does 4K should be completely sorted out.

I have not seen the 4K LG but prices will go down the longer 4K technology is around. We have a standard 30” LG in the bedroom and it has a great image and has been completely reliable.

albertporter

Owner

Zephyr24069

..we ending up going with the Samsung UN55HU8550FXZA (55" non-curved) which at the time (the 8550 engine/panel) bested everything else we looked at. Now that LG has resolved the lack of 4K support, their OLED has got to be the best display on the market, bar none.....

I hope internet speed can keep up with streaming 4K, I have problems with regular Netflix during busy times with my (old) Panasonic 65"Plasma.

Hope the Panasonic does not fail, but when it does 4K should be completely sorted out.

I have not seen the 4K LG but prices will go down the longer 4K technology is around. We have a standard 30” LG in the bedroom and it has a great image and has been completely reliable.

albertporter

Owner

Zephyr24069

..we ending up going with the Samsung UN55HU8550FXZA (55" non-curved) which at the time (the 8550 engine/panel) bested everything else we looked at. Now that LG has resolved the lack of 4K support, their OLED has got to be the best display on the market, bar none.....

I hope internet speed can keep up with streaming 4K, I have problems with regular Netflix during busy times with my (old) Panasonic 65"Plasma.

Hope the Panasonic does not fail, but when it does 4K should be completely sorted out.

I have not seen the 4K LG but prices will go down the longer 4K technology is around. We have a standard 30” LG in the bedroom and it has a great image and has been completely reliable.

albertporter

Owner

Zephyr24069

..we ending up going with the Samsung UN55HU8550FXZA (55" non-curved) which at the time (the 8550 engine/panel) bested everything else we looked at. Now that LG has resolved the lack of 4K support, their OLED has got to be the best display on the market, bar none.....

I hope internet speed can keep up with streaming 4K, I have problems with regular Netflix during busy times with my (old) Panasonic 65"Plasma.

Hope the Panasonic does not fail, but when it does 4K should be completely sorted out.

I have not seen the 4K LG but prices will go down the longer 4K technology is around. We have a standard 30” LG in the bedroom and it has a great image and has been completely reliable.

albertporter

Owner

Zephyr24069

..we ending up going with the Samsung UN55HU8550FXZA (55" non-curved) which at the time (the 8550 engine/panel) bested everything else we looked at. Now that LG has resolved the lack of 4K support, their OLED has got to be the best display on the market, bar none.....

I hope internet speed can keep up with streaming 4K, I have problems with regular Netflix during busy times with my (old) Panasonic 65"Plasma.

Hope the Panasonic does not fail, but when it does 4K should be completely sorted out.

I have not seen the 4K LG but prices will go down the longer 4K technology is around. We have a standard 30” LG in the bedroom and it has a great image and has been completely reliable.

albertporter

Owner

Zephyr24069

..we ending up going with the Samsung UN55HU8550FXZA (55" non-curved) which at the time (the 8550 engine/panel) bested everything else we looked at. Now that LG has resolved the lack of 4K support, their OLED has got to be the best display on the market, bar none.....

I hope internet speed can keep up with streaming 4K, I have problems with regular Netflix during busy times with my (old) Panasonic 65"Plasma.

Hope the Panasonic does not fail, but when it does 4K should be completely sorted out.

I have not seen the 4K LG but prices will go down the longer 4K technology is around. We have a standard 30” LG in the bedroom and it has a great image and has been completely reliable.

albertporter

Owner

Zephyr24069

..we ending up going with the Samsung UN55HU8550FXZA (55" non-curved) which at the time (the 8550 engine/panel) bested everything else we looked at. Now that LG has resolved the lack of 4K support, their OLED has got to be the best display on the market, bar none.....

I hope internet speed can keep up with streaming 4K, I have problems with regular Netflix during busy times with my (old) Panasonic 65"Plasma.

Hope the Panasonic does not fail, but when it does 4K should be completely sorted out.

I have not seen the 4K LG but prices will go down the longer 4K technology is around. We have a standard 30” LG in the bedroom and it has a great image and has been completely reliable.

albertporter

Owner

Zephyr24069

..we ending up going with the Samsung UN55HU8550FXZA (55" non-curved) which at the time (the 8550 engine/panel) bested everything else we looked at. Now that LG has resolved the lack of 4K support, their OLED has got to be the best display on the market, bar none.....

I hope internet speed can keep up with streaming 4K, I have problems with regular Netflix during busy times with my (old) Panasonic 65"Plasma.

Hope the Panasonic does not fail, but when it does 4K should be completely sorted out.

I have not seen the 4K LG but prices will go down the longer 4K technology is around. We have a standard 30” LG in the bedroom and it has a great image and has been completely reliable.

albertporter

Owner

Zephyr24069

..we ending up going with the Samsung UN55HU8550FXZA (55" non-curved) which at the time (the 8550 engine/panel) bested everything else we looked at. Now that LG has resolved the lack of 4K support, their OLED has got to be the best display on the market, bar none.....

I hope internet speed can keep up with streaming 4K, I have problems with regular Netflix during busy times with my (old) Panasonic 65"Plasma.

Hope the Panasonic does not fail, but when it does 4K should be completely sorted out.

I have not seen the 4K LG but prices will go down the longer 4K technology is around. We have a standard 30” LG in the bedroom and it has a great image and has been completely reliable.

albertporter

Owner

Zephyr24069

..we ending up going with the Samsung UN55HU8550FXZA (55" non-curved) which at the time (the 8550 engine/panel) bested everything else we looked at. Now that LG has resolved the lack of 4K support, their OLED has got to be the best display on the market, bar none.....

I hope internet speed can keep up with streaming 4K, I have problems with regular Netflix during busy times with my (old) Panasonic 65"Plasma.

Hope the Panasonic does not fail, but when it does 4K should be completely sorted out.

I have not seen the 4K LG but prices will go down the longer 4K technology is around. We have a standard 30” LG in the bedroom and it has a great image and has been completely reliable.

albertporter

Owner

Zephyr24069

..we ending up going with the Samsung UN55HU8550FXZA (55" non-curved) which at the time (the 8550 engine/panel) bested everything else we looked at. Now that LG has resolved the lack of 4K support, their OLED has got to be the best display on the market, bar none.....

I hope internet speed can keep up with streaming 4K, I have problems with regular Netflix during busy times with my (old) Panasonic 65"Plasma.

Hope the Panasonic does not fail, but when it does 4K should be completely sorted out.

I have not seen the 4K LG but prices will go down the longer 4K technology is around. We have a standard 30” LG in the bedroom and it has a great image and has been completely reliable.

albertporter

Owner

Zephyr24069

..we ending up going with the Samsung UN55HU8550FXZA (55" non-curved) which at the time (the 8550 engine/panel) bested everything else we looked at. Now that LG has resolved the lack of 4K support, their OLED has got to be the best display on the market, bar none.....

I hope internet speed can keep up with streaming 4K, I have problems with regular Netflix during busy times with my (old) Panasonic 65"Plasma.

Hope the Panasonic does not fail, but when it does 4K should be completely sorted out.

I have not seen the 4K LG but prices will go down the longer 4K technology is around. We have a standard 30” LG in the bedroom and it has a great image and has been completely reliable.

albertporter

Owner

Zephyr24069

..we ending up going with the Samsung UN55HU8550FXZA (55" non-curved) which at the time (the 8550 engine/panel) bested everything else we looked at. Now that LG has resolved the lack of 4K support, their OLED has got to be the best display on the market, bar none.....

I hope internet speed can keep up with streaming 4K, I have problems with regular Netflix during busy times with my (old) Panasonic 65"Plasma.

Hope the Panasonic does not fail, but when it does 4K should be completely sorted out.

I have not seen the 4K LG but prices will go down the longer 4K technology is around. We have a standard 30” LG in the bedroom and it has a great image and has been completely reliable.

albertporter

Owner

Zephyr24069

..we ending up going with the Samsung UN55HU8550FXZA (55" non-curved) which at the time (the 8550 engine/panel) bested everything else we looked at. Now that LG has resolved the lack of 4K support, their OLED has got to be the best display on the market, bar none.....

I hope internet speed can keep up with streaming 4K, I have problems with regular Netflix during busy times with my (old) Panasonic 65"Plasma.

Hope the Panasonic does not fail, but when it does 4K should be completely sorted out.

I have not seen the 4K LG but prices will go down the longer 4K technology is around. We have a standard 30” LG in the bedroom and it has a great image and has been completely reliable.

albertporter

Owner

Zephyr24069

..we ending up going with the Samsung UN55HU8550FXZA (55" non-curved) which at the time (the 8550 engine/panel) bested everything else we looked at. Now that LG has resolved the lack of 4K support, their OLED has got to be the best display on the market, bar none.....

I hope internet speed can keep up with streaming 4K, I have problems with regular Netflix during busy times with my (old) Panasonic 65"Plasma.

Hope the Panasonic does not fail, but when it does 4K should be completely sorted out.

I have not seen the 4K LG but prices will go down the longer 4K technology is around. We have a standard 30” LG in the bedroom and it has a great image and has been completely reliable.

albertporter

Owner

Zephyr24069

..we ending up going with the Samsung UN55HU8550FXZA (55" non-curved) which at the time (the 8550 engine/panel) bested everything else we looked at. Now that LG has resolved the lack of 4K support, their OLED has got to be the best display on the market, bar none.....

I hope internet speed can keep up with streaming 4K, I have problems with regular Netflix during busy times with my (old) Panasonic 65"Plasma.

Hope the Panasonic does not fail, but when it does 4K should be completely sorted out.

I have not seen the 4K LG but prices will go down the longer 4K technology is around. We have a standard 30” LG in the bedroom and it has a great image and has been completely reliable.

albertporter

Owner

Zephyr24069

..we ending up going with the Samsung UN55HU8550FXZA (55" non-curved) which at the time (the 8550 engine/panel) bested everything else we looked at. Now that LG has resolved the lack of 4K support, their OLED has got to be the best display on the market, bar none.....

I hope internet speed can keep up with streaming 4K, I have problems with regular Netflix during busy times with my (old) Panasonic 65"Plasma.

Hope the Panasonic does not fail, but when it does 4K should be completely sorted out.

I have not seen the 4K LG but prices will go down the longer 4K technology is around. We have a standard 30” LG in the bedroom and it has a great image and has been completely reliable.

albertporter

Owner

Zephyr24069

..we ending up going with the Samsung UN55HU8550FXZA (55" non-curved) which at the time (the 8550 engine/panel) bested everything else we looked at. Now that LG has resolved the lack of 4K support, their OLED has got to be the best display on the market, bar none.....

I hope internet speed can keep up with streaming 4K, I have problems with regular Netflix during busy times with my (old) Panasonic 65"Plasma.

Hope the Panasonic does not fail, but when it does 4K should be completely sorted out.

I have not seen the 4K LG but prices will go down the longer 4K technology is around. We have a standard 30” LG in the bedroom and it has a great image and has been completely reliable.

albertporter

Owner
There is an amazing new camera being developed. Follow the link below to read about it. I don't know of anything like this, I might have to get one for myself.

https://light.co/camera

albertporter

Owner
There is an amazing new camera being developed. Follow the link below to read about it. I don't know of anything like this, I might have to get one for myself.

https://light.co/camera

albertporter

Owner
There is an amazing new camera being developed. Follow the link below to read about it. I don't know of anything like this, I might have to get one for myself.

https://light.co/camera

albertporter

Owner
There is an amazing new camera being developed. Follow the link below to read about it. I don't know of anything like this, I might have to get one for myself.

https://light.co/camera

albertporter

Owner
There is an amazing new camera being developed. Follow the link below to read about it. I don't know of anything like this, I might have to get one for myself.

https://light.co/camera

albertporter

Owner
There is an amazing new camera being developed. Follow the link below to read about it. I don't know of anything like this, I might have to get one for myself.

https://light.co/camera

albertporter

Owner
There is an amazing new camera being developed. Follow the link below to read about it. I don't know of anything like this, I might have to get one for myself.

https://light.co/camera

albertporter

Owner
There is an amazing new camera being developed. Follow the link below to read about it. I don't know of anything like this, I might have to get one for myself.

https://light.co/camera

albertporter

Owner
There is an amazing new camera being developed. Follow the link below to read about it. I don't know of anything like this, I might have to get one for myself.

https://light.co/camera

albertporter

Owner
There is an amazing new camera being developed. Follow the link below to read about it. I don't know of anything like this, I might have to get one for myself.

https://light.co/camera

albertporter

Owner
There is an amazing new camera being developed. Follow the link below to read about it. I don't know of anything like this, I might have to get one for myself.

https://light.co/camera

albertporter

Owner
There is an amazing new camera being developed. Follow the link below to read about it. I don't know of anything like this, I might have to get one for myself.

https://light.co/camera

albertporter

Owner
There is an amazing new camera being developed. Follow the link below to read about it. I don't know of anything like this, I might have to get one for myself.

https://light.co/camera

albertporter

Owner
There is an amazing new camera being developed. Follow the link below to read about it. I don't know of anything like this, I might have to get one for myself.

https://light.co/camera

albertporter

Owner
There is an amazing new camera being developed. Follow the link below to read about it. I don't know of anything like this, I might have to get one for myself.

https://light.co/camera

albertporter

Owner
There is an amazing new camera being developed. Follow the link below to read about it. I don't know of anything like this, I might have to get one for myself.

https://light.co/camera

albertporter

Owner
There is an amazing new camera being developed. Follow the link below to read about it. I don't know of anything like this, I might have to get one for myself.

https://light.co/camera

albertporter

Owner
There is an amazing new camera being developed. Follow the link below to read about it. I don't know of anything like this, I might have to get one for myself.

https://light.co/camera

albertporter

Owner
There is an amazing new camera being developed. Follow the link below to read about it. I don't know of anything like this, I might have to get one for myself.

https://light.co/camera

albertporter

Owner
There is an amazing new camera being developed. Follow the link below to read about it. I don't know of anything like this, I might have to get one for myself.

https://light.co/camera

albertporter

Owner
There is an amazing new camera being developed. Follow the link below to read about it. I don't know of anything like this, I might have to get one for myself.

https://light.co/camera

albertporter

Owner
There is an amazing new camera being developed. Follow the link below to read about it. I don't know of anything like this, I might have to get one for myself.

https://light.co/camera

albertporter

Owner
There is an amazing new camera being developed. Follow the link below to read about it. I don't know of anything like this, I might have to get one for myself.

https://light.co/camera

albertporter

Owner
There is an amazing new camera being developed. Follow the link below to read about it. I don't know of anything like this, I might have to get one for myself.

https://light.co/camera

albertporter

Owner
There is an amazing new camera being developed. Follow the link below to read about it. I don't know of anything like this, I might have to get one for myself.

https://light.co/camera

albertporter

Owner
There is an amazing new camera being developed. Follow the link below to read about it. I don't know of anything like this, I might have to get one for myself.

https://light.co/camera

albertporter

Owner
There is an amazing new camera being developed. Follow the link below to read about it. I don't know of anything like this, I might have to get one for myself.

https://light.co/camera

albertporter

Owner
There is an amazing new camera being developed. Follow the link below to read about it. I don't know of anything like this, I might have to get one for myself.

https://light.co/camera

albertporter

Owner
There is an amazing new camera being developed. Follow the link below to read about it. I don't know of anything like this, I might have to get one for myself.

https://light.co/camera

albertporter

Owner
There is an amazing new camera being developed. Follow the link below to read about it. I don't know of anything like this, I might have to get one for myself.

https://light.co/camera

albertporter

Owner
Jwm
Albert the LG 65 inch 4K OLED looks fantastic. I can say it beats my Pioneer Elite Plasma. The price is now 5,000.00 which is not bad. When it hits 3,500.00 its mine.

I agree, it does appear to be a fantastic upgrade. I don't understand why it's a curved screen, do you know?

albertporter

Owner
Jwm
Albert the LG 65 inch 4K OLED looks fantastic. I can say it beats my Pioneer Elite Plasma. The price is now 5,000.00 which is not bad. When it hits 3,500.00 its mine.

I agree, it does appear to be a fantastic upgrade. I don't understand why it's a curved screen, do you know?

albertporter

Owner
Jwm
Albert the LG 65 inch 4K OLED looks fantastic. I can say it beats my Pioneer Elite Plasma. The price is now 5,000.00 which is not bad. When it hits 3,500.00 its mine.

I agree, it does appear to be a fantastic upgrade. I don't understand why it's a curved screen, do you know?

albertporter

Owner
Jwm
Albert the LG 65 inch 4K OLED looks fantastic. I can say it beats my Pioneer Elite Plasma. The price is now 5,000.00 which is not bad. When it hits 3,500.00 its mine.

I agree, it does appear to be a fantastic upgrade. I don't understand why it's a curved screen, do you know?

albertporter

Owner
Jwm
Albert the LG 65 inch 4K OLED looks fantastic. I can say it beats my Pioneer Elite Plasma. The price is now 5,000.00 which is not bad. When it hits 3,500.00 its mine.

I agree, it does appear to be a fantastic upgrade. I don't understand why it's a curved screen, do you know?

albertporter

Owner
Jwm
Albert the LG 65 inch 4K OLED looks fantastic. I can say it beats my Pioneer Elite Plasma. The price is now 5,000.00 which is not bad. When it hits 3,500.00 its mine.

I agree, it does appear to be a fantastic upgrade. I don't understand why it's a curved screen, do you know?

albertporter

Owner
Jwm
Albert the LG 65 inch 4K OLED looks fantastic. I can say it beats my Pioneer Elite Plasma. The price is now 5,000.00 which is not bad. When it hits 3,500.00 its mine.

I agree, it does appear to be a fantastic upgrade. I don't understand why it's a curved screen, do you know?

albertporter

Owner
Jwm
Albert the LG 65 inch 4K OLED looks fantastic. I can say it beats my Pioneer Elite Plasma. The price is now 5,000.00 which is not bad. When it hits 3,500.00 its mine.

I agree, it does appear to be a fantastic upgrade. I don't understand why it's a curved screen, do you know?

albertporter

Owner
Jwm
Albert the LG 65 inch 4K OLED looks fantastic. I can say it beats my Pioneer Elite Plasma. The price is now 5,000.00 which is not bad. When it hits 3,500.00 its mine.

I agree, it does appear to be a fantastic upgrade. I don't understand why it's a curved screen, do you know?

albertporter

Owner
Jwm
Albert the LG 65 inch 4K OLED looks fantastic. I can say it beats my Pioneer Elite Plasma. The price is now 5,000.00 which is not bad. When it hits 3,500.00 its mine.

I agree, it does appear to be a fantastic upgrade. I don't understand why it's a curved screen, do you know?

albertporter

Owner
Jwm
Albert the LG 65 inch 4K OLED looks fantastic. I can say it beats my Pioneer Elite Plasma. The price is now 5,000.00 which is not bad. When it hits 3,500.00 its mine.

I agree, it does appear to be a fantastic upgrade. I don't understand why it's a curved screen, do you know?

albertporter

Owner
Jwm
Albert the LG 65 inch 4K OLED looks fantastic. I can say it beats my Pioneer Elite Plasma. The price is now 5,000.00 which is not bad. When it hits 3,500.00 its mine.

I agree, it does appear to be a fantastic upgrade. I don't understand why it's a curved screen, do you know?

albertporter

Owner
Jwm
Albert the LG 65 inch 4K OLED looks fantastic. I can say it beats my Pioneer Elite Plasma. The price is now 5,000.00 which is not bad. When it hits 3,500.00 its mine.

I agree, it does appear to be a fantastic upgrade. I don't understand why it's a curved screen, do you know?

albertporter

Owner
Jwm
Albert the LG 65 inch 4K OLED looks fantastic. I can say it beats my Pioneer Elite Plasma. The price is now 5,000.00 which is not bad. When it hits 3,500.00 its mine.

I agree, it does appear to be a fantastic upgrade. I don't understand why it's a curved screen, do you know?

albertporter

Owner
Jwm
Albert the LG 65 inch 4K OLED looks fantastic. I can say it beats my Pioneer Elite Plasma. The price is now 5,000.00 which is not bad. When it hits 3,500.00 its mine.

I agree, it does appear to be a fantastic upgrade. I don't understand why it's a curved screen, do you know?

albertporter

Owner
Jwm
Albert the LG 65 inch 4K OLED looks fantastic. I can say it beats my Pioneer Elite Plasma. The price is now 5,000.00 which is not bad. When it hits 3,500.00 its mine.

I agree, it does appear to be a fantastic upgrade. I don't understand why it's a curved screen, do you know?

albertporter

Owner
Jwm
Albert the LG 65 inch 4K OLED looks fantastic. I can say it beats my Pioneer Elite Plasma. The price is now 5,000.00 which is not bad. When it hits 3,500.00 its mine.

I agree, it does appear to be a fantastic upgrade. I don't understand why it's a curved screen, do you know?

albertporter

Owner
Jwm
Albert the LG 65 inch 4K OLED looks fantastic. I can say it beats my Pioneer Elite Plasma. The price is now 5,000.00 which is not bad. When it hits 3,500.00 its mine.

I agree, it does appear to be a fantastic upgrade. I don't understand why it's a curved screen, do you know?

albertporter

Owner
Jwm
Albert the LG 65 inch 4K OLED looks fantastic. I can say it beats my Pioneer Elite Plasma. The price is now 5,000.00 which is not bad. When it hits 3,500.00 its mine.

I agree, it does appear to be a fantastic upgrade. I don't understand why it's a curved screen, do you know?

albertporter

Owner
Jwm
Albert the LG 65 inch 4K OLED looks fantastic. I can say it beats my Pioneer Elite Plasma. The price is now 5,000.00 which is not bad. When it hits 3,500.00 its mine.

I agree, it does appear to be a fantastic upgrade. I don't understand why it's a curved screen, do you know?

albertporter

Owner
Jwm
Albert the LG 65 inch 4K OLED looks fantastic. I can say it beats my Pioneer Elite Plasma. The price is now 5,000.00 which is not bad. When it hits 3,500.00 its mine.

I agree, it does appear to be a fantastic upgrade. I don't understand why it's a curved screen, do you know?

albertporter

Owner
Jwm
Albert the LG 65 inch 4K OLED looks fantastic. I can say it beats my Pioneer Elite Plasma. The price is now 5,000.00 which is not bad. When it hits 3,500.00 its mine.

I agree, it does appear to be a fantastic upgrade. I don't understand why it's a curved screen, do you know?

albertporter

Owner
Jwm
Albert the LG 65 inch 4K OLED looks fantastic. I can say it beats my Pioneer Elite Plasma. The price is now 5,000.00 which is not bad. When it hits 3,500.00 its mine.

I agree, it does appear to be a fantastic upgrade. I don't understand why it's a curved screen, do you know?

albertporter

Owner
Jwm
Albert the LG 65 inch 4K OLED looks fantastic. I can say it beats my Pioneer Elite Plasma. The price is now 5,000.00 which is not bad. When it hits 3,500.00 its mine.

I agree, it does appear to be a fantastic upgrade. I don't understand why it's a curved screen, do you know?

albertporter

Owner
Jwm
Albert the LG 65 inch 4K OLED looks fantastic. I can say it beats my Pioneer Elite Plasma. The price is now 5,000.00 which is not bad. When it hits 3,500.00 its mine.

I agree, it does appear to be a fantastic upgrade. I don't understand why it's a curved screen, do you know?

albertporter

Owner
Jwm
Albert the LG 65 inch 4K OLED looks fantastic. I can say it beats my Pioneer Elite Plasma. The price is now 5,000.00 which is not bad. When it hits 3,500.00 its mine.

I agree, it does appear to be a fantastic upgrade. I don't understand why it's a curved screen, do you know?

albertporter

Owner
Jwm
Albert the LG 65 inch 4K OLED looks fantastic. I can say it beats my Pioneer Elite Plasma. The price is now 5,000.00 which is not bad. When it hits 3,500.00 its mine.

I agree, it does appear to be a fantastic upgrade. I don't understand why it's a curved screen, do you know?

albertporter

Owner
Jwm
Albert the LG 65 inch 4K OLED looks fantastic. I can say it beats my Pioneer Elite Plasma. The price is now 5,000.00 which is not bad. When it hits 3,500.00 its mine.

I agree, it does appear to be a fantastic upgrade. I don't understand why it's a curved screen, do you know?

albertporter

Owner
Jwm
Albert the LG 65 inch 4K OLED looks fantastic. I can say it beats my Pioneer Elite Plasma. The price is now 5,000.00 which is not bad. When it hits 3,500.00 its mine.

I agree, it does appear to be a fantastic upgrade. I don't understand why it's a curved screen, do you know?

albertporter

Owner
Jwm
Albert the LG 65 inch 4K OLED looks fantastic. I can say it beats my Pioneer Elite Plasma. The price is now 5,000.00 which is not bad. When it hits 3,500.00 its mine.

I agree, it does appear to be a fantastic upgrade. I don't understand why it's a curved screen, do you know?

albertporter

Owner
Jwm
Albert the LG 65 inch 4K OLED looks fantastic. I can say it beats my Pioneer Elite Plasma. The price is now 5,000.00 which is not bad. When it hits 3,500.00 its mine.

I agree, it does appear to be a fantastic upgrade. I don't understand why it's a curved screen, do you know?

albertporter

Owner
I installed a two meter AudioQuest Coffee Thunderbolt a few days ago and tonight we got to listen seriously.

Quite audible upgrade and very positive. Everything is cleaner, more precise and with lower distortion. The intelligibility of everything is improved, especially when content is complex and/or loud.

The Thunderbolt runs between my 4 drive bay DataTale Thunderbolt storage and Mac Mini. A good investment, it made digital more enjoyable and I’m grateful for that.

albertporter

Owner
Hello Mapman,

Yes, I am a prime member but like you, am not impressed with their music streaming. Movies on the other hand, are a necessity. I can't remember the last time we made the trip to rent a Blue Ray or DVD.

The reason I bought the new 4K Fire TV box is Amazon claim it was better and faster. My TV is getting old so I thought the move to 4K before it gave up would be smart.

A friend pointed me to the new Roku 4 which is supposed to be available shortly. This time I'll read a few customer comments before I jump in but the Roku appears to offer what the new Fire TV left off.

albertporter

Owner
Update,

Peachtree resolved my sound problem but 4K Fire TV fails to stream Netflix. Also, volume is low on TV if you choose that option and the remote control looses sync frequently.

I’m sticking with original Fire TV until this is resolved. Lots of negative reviews at Amazon, so it appears I am not the only one with “beta” unit.

albertporter

Owner
Anyone now or in near future going with 4K TV, the new Amazon Fire TV is out and accommodates same.

I pre ordered one a week or two ago and was excited until I received it and noticed a change. The spot where previous Fire TV had a Toslink optical has been replaced with a Micro SD slot.

I use Fire TV to listen to YouTube, Netflix and Amazon Prime through my stereo so this ruined that option. Before returning the 4K Fire TV to Amazon I looked around for a cure and found the Peachtree X1 24/192 USB to SPDIF + Optical converter on their website.

http://www.peachtreeaudio.com/x1-usb-spdif-converter.html

I ordered and just now received it. I hooked up USB from Fire TV to the Peachtree and a SPDIF from the Peachtree to my Allnic DAC.

It worked first try, no drivers, no hassle and my Allnic now upsample to double DSD for streaming. Peachtree saved the day for $150.00 and free shipping.

I am very pleased, sound is better than old Fire TV using previous optical out. Keep this in mind if you have similar need. Difficult to get a fun, cheap upgrade like this that you can share with the family.

albertporter

Owner
Last night was an excellent music night with six of us listening to both analog and digital. I am very pleased with JRiver 21, it does sound a bit better than older releases and anything that makes digital better is much appreciated. I have a lot of digital software.

On LP we listened to a wide mix of material,

“Imaginary Cities“ by Chris Potter (ECM)
“Last Dance by Keith Jarrett and Charlie Haden“ (ECM)
“Gefion“ by Jakob Bro (ECM) Love this LP !
“Traffic From Paradise” by Rickie Lee Jones
“Songs For The Deaf” by Queens of the Stone Age
“Takin’ My Time” by Bonnie Raitt
“American IV: The Man Comes Around“ by Johnny Cash

From music server several tunes but recently I’m obsessed with “Uberjam Deux” by John Scofield and John Medeski. This is a Jazz tune that’s as contiguous as pop rock and I never seem to grow tired of it.

albertporter

Owner
Jwm
I'm going to CES.

I’m still trying to decide about CES. I have my eye on Munich for next year and it’s expensive.

albertporter

Owner
Marqmike
I am looking forward to being there. I hope I get to spend some serious time there. It seems like in the past I only allowed a morning or afternoon. Hopefully not this time. Have a good time Albert.

I'll be walking around with my camera, I'm hoping to cover every room. It's one of my favorite shows.

albertporter

Owner
RMAF is close, I'm excited and looking forward to Denver.

Anyone else?

albertporter

Owner
Swampwalker
Thank you Albert and Mike.

Swamp, you’re one of the original guys, member since 1999. I’m happy you’re on my system thread and pleased that Mike and I had something of value for you.

albertporter

Owner
Swampwalker
So Albert- are you saying the Jremote app swwill allow you to control a windows music server from an iOS device without any other hardware?

A second reply with a more complete answer to your question.

Yes, you can control a Windows computer with an Apple iPad, no other hardware needed. This is true, provided your goal is to operate a music server and your software is JRiver and JRemote.

I had to check, and get first hand feedback before I made that statement since I'm not experienced with Windows.

albertporter

Owner
Jwm
Albert just loaded JRiver 21 today and I think it is better, what say you?

Amazing you say that, I agree.

I auditioned JRiver 20 versus 21 today, I have both copies in my application folder and of course both are pulling from the same files.

I think 21 is a bit smoother, more analog.

albertporter

Owner
Swampwalker
So Albert- are you saying the Jremote app swwill allow you to control a windows music server from an iOS device without any other hardware?

I use Apple but JRiver media software does offers versions for Windows, Apple and Linux.

http://www.jremote.net/

http://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Remotes

I don't know much about Windows but there are discussions about JRemote with Windows 10 at JRiver support site.

albertporter

Owner
Fixed, JRemote has an update at Apple store, amazing they got this together so quick.

I have not downloaded JRiver 21 but a reliable source says it sounds a bit better than 20. I’m upgrading this weekend.

albertporter

Owner
I want to pass along an experience that cost me most of yesterday trying to resolve.

I did the recent iOS update Apple offered without thinking much about it. Yesterday when trying to launch JRemote on my iPad it would immediately crash.

JRemote is an Apple app that allows iPhone, iPad and Android devices to select music on computers running on JRiver software.

My iPhone would still control my server but the iPad would not. I spent hours backing up the iPad, installing new operating system and removing and reinstalling JRemote in an attempt to solve this issue.

Searching at JRiver website a thread only a few hours old cover this. Seems some Apple devices are broken due to this new iOS upgrade yet other unaffected.

So if you use JRiver and an Apple device to control it via JRemote, DON’T download the new iOS upgrade. JRiver has a solution but it has to be vetted before Apple will allow them to offer at the app store.

albertporter

Owner
Siddh
I also have the Supreme...haven't re-mounted since installing the Coralstone. If, memory serves well, the Coralstone offers similar extension with a bit denser midrange. Very pleasing. Have you played with Rick's High Fidelity cables? I recently purchased his Helix speaker cable, and it has brought out even more from the Coralstone.

Your description of the Coralstone pretty much matches my own experience but the Supreme is a bit more contrast or dynamics and goes deeper in the bass.

The midrange of the Coralstone is wonderful, especially female vocals.

Rick is a friend, I think the world of him. I‘ve tried HF interconnect and AC cables but never the Helix speaker. I have a couple of cables here I play with as well as other brands such as Audioquest and Clarity. All cables have an effect on final sound, mix and match make for a lot of options.

albertporter

Owner
Siddh
Hi Albert, how is the Coralstone gelling? I have approximately 50 hours on mine...so far the best cart. I've had in my system.

That’s my take on it as well, only the Air Tight Supreme is competition and they are surprisingly similar in many respects.

albertporter

Owner
Detlof
My experience with those folks in Canada has always been excellent in every respect.

Agree!

albertporter

Owner
09-12-15: Whart
And is now sold with one of those warnings, right Albert?

I don’t know, this just happened. I received the clamp a few hours ago and it looks brand new.

I would not have put in all that effort for the price they charged.

albertporter

Owner
I wanted to pass along an experience I had with TTWeights.

I purchased the TTSUPERCLAMP Brass/Alum 580G (locking) LP weight a few years ago. It’s one of several I love and experiment with, others include the Stillpoints LPI, Pierre Lurné and the Japan TTM Oil filled.

The brass finish of the TTW would tarnish after handling and wishing to restore it’s appearance I used copper cleaner that required water rinse and restored the finish.

After the polish and water dried out, the clamp was completely locked up, absolutely solid and no amount of effort would break the bond.

I wrote TTW and got permission to return for repair. They had to soak it in solvent for several days to get it to unlock but were able to save it.

The best parts is they refinished the clamp and coated it so it would never need polishing again.

I am so happy they were not only able to salvage it, but improved it from original condition and the price was very reasonable.

I am very pleased.

albertporter

Owner
Attached are additional images of the new Technics sent to me by a friend. I don't know if he captured these or found them on line.

The new turntable continues to interest me but unknown if it will be best performance effort. A modern revised classic SP10 MK2 / SP10 MK3, or just a higher cost SL-1200 series.

I’m sure Technics is trying to find the ideal balance. Aim too high and have limited customer base due to cost.

Aim too low and perhaps not generate enough interest to influence buyers away from other brands.

http://postimg.org/gallery/26fcnr0es/

albertporter

Owner
Doing search to find more info on the new Technics I came across this:

http://www.whathifi.com/news/ifa-technics-set-to-release-new-turntable-in-2016

Below is a physical description of the new Technics according to the website.

・ Coreless stator design that eliminates cogging

・ Twin rotors that reduce bearing load and minimize tiny rotational fluctuations (wow & flutter), while maintaining high torque

・ Oil impregnated high-precision bearings that minimize unwanted vibrations during rotation

The redesigned direct drive motor control technology involves the following:

・ Spindle motor control technology that switches the stator winding drive mode according to operating conditions to provide both high starting torque and high rotational stability

・ Adaptive rotational control technology that achieves optimized compensation according to precision rotational position detection and load fluctuation factors.

The turntable does not currently have a name or price - so no word whether it will continue the SL dynasty.

albertporter

Owner
I'm very interested in the retail price of this new turntable and what performance level they‘re striving for.

albertporter

Owner
A member of my music group sent me this link today.

http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2015-09/02/panasonic-turntable-technics

There are no details as to what model this replicates, I hope it’s a duplication of the MK3 or at least the MK2 version from it’s heyday.

albertporter

Owner
Another great Tuesday night session. I continue to be amazed at the break in of the new Allnic M3000MK2 monoblocks. They are excellent.

The Koetsu Coralstone has about 40 hours on it now, really beginning to open up. This is a high resolution cartridge that's also very musical.

I've added a lot of LPs lately including Felix Laband new double LP, "Deaf Safari" and Charles Lloyd, "Wild Man Dance" on Blue Note.

Both these are complex and will not appeal to everyone but you can sample at Amazon and determine for yourself.

albertporter

Owner
Mikelavigne
I have the original pressing. It is a great recording for demo purposes as far as soundstage and acoustic precision. As far as the music, I have to be in the right mood to get into it, but when I am I really enjoy it.


The LP is a bit depressing as is much of Roger Waters lyrics. I agree it’s a great piece of music for the right mood and many cuts are good for demo.

It’s been a long time since I put it on and listened through all four sides. I’ve had my two copies (one play and one sealed) since release in 1992. I’ve purchased so many other great pieces of music I often forget to dig out these older rock recordings.

I have not explored the new release other than my description here. The new release is excellent pressing quality and fair price.

The originals have gotten expensive and without it to compare to the new one should make most people happy.

albertporter

Owner
Peter
This also quite apparent on the following track, "late hone tonight part one" the missile explosion at the end of the track is mind-blowing on the original.

Have startled many folks with this one :-)

As have I and should include “Three Wishes” as another great track. Incredible space, dynamics and deep bass.

“Three Wishes” may be deliberately out of phase on some content, perhaps how the Genie gets into you ear and head :-).

albertporter

Owner
Tonight one of my listening group guys brought the new Roger Waters, “Amused to Death” reissue LP.

We broke the seal and ran it through the KL Audio LP cleaning machine before we began.

We selected a random cut, first track on side B, “The Bravery of Being Out of Range” on my original issue, then compared to same on the reissue.

There is roaring crowd on mine at the beginning of this cut that’s not on the reissue. Threw us all off a bit, we had to do a couple of listens. This is a completely different mix and the reissue appears to be mixed to show off the vocals a bit more but at great expense of explosive dynamics of the original.

The reissue was very quiet and very flat, so excellent job on that part.

One thing that amused us (not to death) was the original price sticker on my first press copy. $24.95 back in 1992.

Considering increases in cost of everything from food to gasoline the reissue at $50.00 is probably less money today than the original.

It will be interesting to read what others think of the sound of this reissue.

albertporter

Owner
Jetrexpro
have any of you heard the Merrill Audio Jens Phono pre?

Sorry, I have not. I've had several phono stages in my system, many highly regarded but not the Merrill.

albertporter

Owner
Thank you Whart, you are another music guy, makes my heart glad :-).

I was lucky enough to purchase one of the Mosaic box sets of T-Bone 1940-1955 (9 LP). This is what I was posting about, some of the older tunes are amazing, obviously he was a huge influence on many artists.

albertporter

Owner
07-24-15: Rockitman
I now prefer NOS RCA JAN spec 5U4G

I like the RCA as well, not too surprised it's top or near top of the list.

Even if I go back to the Valvo or RCA the Telefunken we got off Ebay are rare and at $99.00 I'm not unhappy to have them in stock.

How is your Allnic H5000 DHT overall performance now?

albertporter

Owner
How is it better? I'll get one and try it out.
Knghifi

Rectifiers vary by circuit so I can’t promise identical results in every case. For the Allnic DHT phono there are two of these and should be reasonably close match.

As for sound, in my system the midrange is incredibly textured and bass is deep and tight. High frequencies are smooth and extended but not tizzy.

All the rectifiers I tried seem to have about the same signal to noise which is strange. With some equipment there is a big difference in both dynamics and signal to noise.

albertporter

Owner
Now that you have me fired up about T Bone Walker, follow this link to read about him.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T-Bone_Walker

I’m old enough to remember after midnight AM stations that played this Dallas artist music. It still makes me happy to hear an original, truly creative artist. Not many around like this today. He was an original,
Legacy

Walker was posthumously inducted into the Blues Hall of Fame in 1980,[9] and into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame in 1987.[8][10]

Chuck Berry named Walker and Louis Jordan as his main influences.[11] B.B. King cites hearing Walker's "Stormy Monday" record as his inspiration for getting an electric guitar.[12] Walker was admired by Jimi Hendrix who imitated Walker's trick of playing the guitar with his teeth.[5] "Stormy Monday" was a favorite live number for The Allman Brothers Band.

albertporter

Owner
MF has the new AirTight Magnum Opus, but JV also mentioned that he has one in one of his recent reviews. It is hard to imagine that there might be a cartridge better than the Supreme. It's pretty exciting, though the price is quite something. I wonder if it too was developed on an SME arm.

Quite possible, I know Air Tight likes the SME arm. I know that even at high volume you can cue up the SME and rub your finger around the headshell and arm tube and absolutely nothing comes out of the speaker. My speakers are wide bandwidth, that speaks volumes about SME attention to resonance control. Yes, some people refer to that as “dead arm” but do we really want to have to tune out a microphonic tonearm ?

Regarding your Vibraplanes, I can suggest that your amplifiers might sound better if placed on these platforms. I was surprised, but I have one under each of my SS Pass amps and they did improve the sound. It improved further when I pre loaded them with ballast plates as I did for the one under my SME turntable.

I love the Vibraplane, if I thought it would improve my amps I would switch in a heartbeat. Mike Lavigne chimed in on a thread when I mentioned wanting to do this and warned that it could soften up the system too much. He’s not the first to make that point so I resist buying two very expensive platforms that may or may not work in my room.

Even though the SME is already suspended, the suspension towers work primarily to isolate the platter from the motor. Overall system energy is drained down through the towers which rest on steel ball footers. This is all improved when placed on the pre loaded Vibraplane. I don't know how effective a Vibraplane would be under other suspended tables, but I'm sure it is excellent under your MK3.

The MK3 must have it. Your SME is deigned to work without it. The ballast you added probably tunes the system to work where the MK3 is happy without ballast. I did try your suggestion, added a 120 pound steel plate and it robbed my MK3 of dynamics.

Then again, the MK3 has no suspension so likely we were chasing different load points. I totally believe you and your results. It will be interesting to see if David likes the MK3 with or without the ballast.

Anyway, it seems like you continue to push your envelope and enjoy the fruits of your considerable efforts. I've got to visit you for one of your Tuesday night sessions someday.

I hope that happens. Last time we had that planned something came up to prevent. I would love for you to visit, hopefully you would like where I have my system tuned.

albertporter

Owner
Babybear
Hi Albert,

Thanks for the info on the Valvo. I have that same Valvo GZ34 with black base and had tried it previously and ended up preferring the 5Y3 directly heated rectifier tubes. But I did that comparison before I started using the Takatsuki 300B voltage regulator tubes. So, perhaps it might be worthwhile trying them again now that I am using the Takatsuki 300b's.

Not too surprising since KS designed for the 5Y3. You can’t go wrong with it. Our systems are different so certainly possible you might choose a different piece here and there.

When I did the fuse comparisons in the H5000, I liked everything about the Hi Fi Tuning Supreme but the Infinity 2Power Platinum fuse had a little better overall transparency and texture to the sound with a bit more punch in the bass. The Synergistic RED fuse seemed to impart an overall more analytical sound than either of the other 2 when used in H5000. I am not sure of the price but I think it was around $110 or so at the time (I had that fuse for a little while now as I was using it in my preamp).

I would not mind trying the fuse that worked for you. Our rooms and overall tonal balance is different due to all the pieces and parts but excellent to read about an alternative that i should try.

Only requires one fuse for H-5000 phono so I’ll probably go for it.

albertporter

Owner
Johnp
Albert,
Had a great time last night. I especially enjoyed the T-Bone Walker music from the 40's. Thanks for being such a gracious host.

YES!

The T Bone Walker was incredible. I suspect much of it was transferred from old 78 RPM since tape machines were really not available to many artists in the 1940s.

Of course this is not a wide bandwidth recording with audiophile bass and shimmering highs but there were many songs that kept us transfixed on the words and emotion of the performance.

T Bone is an incredible artist, I’m glad have a high end system that allows me to play everything, not just “audiophile” releases :-).

albertporter

Owner
Babybear
HI Albert,

Which Valvo rectifier tubes are you using in the Allnic H5000 phono stage?

Non ST small glass GZ34 with black base. I actually tried the uber expensive metal ones and did not like.

I have done a comparison of 3 different aftermarket fuses for the H5000. The Hi Fi Tuning Supreme, the Synergistic Research RED fuse and the Infinity 2power Platinum fuse. All 3 are better sounding to me than the stock fuse, but my favorite in the H5000 is the Infinity 2power Platinum fuse.

I've only tried stock, off the shelf ceramic, ISO Clean, Gold HI Fi tuning and the new Silver HIFI Supreme. Of these the HI FI Supreme is my favorite.

How much is the Infinity Power Platinum fuse and in what way does it improve sound over the Hi FI Supreme?

albertporter

Owner
We did a short test last night with Telefunken GZ32 rectifiers, initial impression is the Valvo are better but will run at least 30 hours before making final decision.

The Koetsu Coralstone has about 28 hours now and is sounding wonderful.

albertporter

Owner
Musicmann1
HI Albert. Can you describe in which ways the ULTRA 5'S improved the sound? Also which way did you orientate them (flat side under the amp, or flat side pointing away (pointing toward the amp stand that the amps sit on )?

Hello Musicmann,

First of all it seems I’ve turned into the poster child for Stillpoints. I now have them under every piece of equipment except the cable TV box and the Oppo (43 of them).

Oddly enough the Stillpoints Mini, which is the most affordable in the line actually sounds better than Ultra SS or Ultra 5 under several pieces.

Where the Ultra 5 works it’s a miracle. The Focal speakers, the ARC REF 250 and Allnic M3000 amps and turntable.

I mount the Ultra 5 using Stillpoints stainless adaptors. They make one for ARC thread, replacing the stock footer and the Allnic I used a 1/4-20 stainless stud through bottom plate to mount.

Using the threaded method you can run the Stillpoints up to the bottom of the chassis, then back off about the thickness of a business card. This makes for very sturdy mount but eliminates contact between chassis bottom and top of the Ultra 5.

Note too, I do not use amp stands. I tried that route, owned several and Stillpoints direct on the floor were superior in every way.

As for performance, In general the Stillpoints Ultra 5 quickens dynamics, reduces overhang and smear and tightens the bass. They do tend to reduce bass, or at lest reduce one kind of bass. It might require some system tweaking if you add a lot of Stillpoints but in the end they are super positive and you can work through tonal balance changes with a bit of work.

albertporter

Owner
Rockitman
Larry Marcus at Paragon is a Koetsu dealer. He uses the coralstone with boron. When I broke mine, I asked him about the diamond cantilever and was it worth considering the upgrade....he felt it had too much zing up top...of course everyone's system is voiced differently. I had my cart rebuilt with boron.

I was told the same thing back when Ronnie was the importer. I’ve never had a diamond cantilever Koetsu in my system so I have no idea.

albertporter

Owner
Ddriveman
Hi Albert,

Over the last couple of days, I have been fortunate to listen to a loaner Koetsu Coralstone Diamond Cantilever cartridge in my setup and compared it to my standard Coralstone platinum (boron cantilever). Using same TT, same arm, headshell and headshell leads. The diamond cantilever certainly performs at a higher level.

I’ll consider it, would have to sell this new one I just purchased as I can’t justify owning two Coralstone.

albertporter

Owner
I know I've said this before, but the Stillpoints Ultra 5 seems to be capable of working wonders.

I put four under each mono block amp and it was like upgrading a major component rather than just adding a footer.

Wish I had thought of this, these guys must be making a fortune.

albertporter

Owner
Ysound
Hello Albert,

Have you gotten around with the 6H30DR for the REF250?

Yes, I have matched quad of NOS 1970s BAT preamp tubes thanks to a long time audiophile friend. These special 6H30 are excellent and perfectly matched but I must admit the tubes ARC picked are pretty much the same performance.

I was expecting an amazing upgrade but testing proved the Stillpoints, Purist AC cable and even High Fidelity fuses were more important overall.

Perhaps I was just lucky and ARC did an exceptional job with mine, or maybe ARC quality is just that good.

albertporter

Owner
Ddriveman
Albert,

You might want to try the Coralstone with Diamond cantilever. A couple of audiophiles with experienced and trusted ears say that it's better and has higher resolution and detail. This could bridge the gap between the standard Coralstone and Airtight in the areas of detail and resolution while keeping all the benefits of the Coralstone in the mids.

Actually I gave that quite a bit of thought. It was even suggested I special order a Koetsu Urushi Wajima with Platinum motor and diamond cantilever. Supposed to offer performance plus warmth.

albertporter

Owner
System edited: Added Allnic M3000 MK2 Mono Blocks to the system. Now I have two KT-150 tube based amps.

albertporter

Owner
Siddh
Hi Albert. How's the Koetsu performing? What led to repurchase of the Coralstone?
Thanks, Steve

I had the Allnic Puritas cartridge, the Lyra Atlas and Air Tight Supreme. There were times one of the other cartridges would get a whole side of an LP but typically my visitors and myself were eager to go back to the Air Tight Supreme. It seemed as waste to have the Lyra sit with so few hours so I'm selling it and letting the Coralstone have it's spot.

There is other method to my madness, Air Tight has a new super cartridge coming, the Magnum so when it's available I'm thinking it and the Coralstone will be a perfect pair for all kinds of music.

I'm on the list for the new Air Tight but I think Mike Fremer is the only person with one in hand and the moment.

albertporter

Owner
Ddriveman
Hi Albert,

Could you try to contract the differences between the Burma Jade, Jade and Coralstone Koetsu please. I have only heard the Coralstone and the Onyx and am very curios as to what the other stone body Koetsu's bring.

Ownership of these span several years, but as I remember, the Jade was more closed up and darker on top and a bit less resolution. Not as dark as the Rosewood Signature which by comparison is very warm with soft highs.

The Burma Jade is barely more open while the Coralstone has almost as much sparkle and speed as the Air Tight Supreme.

On this same topic, tonight we played back and forth between the Coralstone and Air Tight Supreme and listeners changed their minds about which was better depending on the music.

Coralstone has about 16 hours and it's already changed several times just with this little bit of run in. The Air Tight is broken in fully and stable, never varies.

I'll have opinion within a couple of weeks as to what strength each shows with various recordings. I have to say right now, this Coralstone is giving the Air Tight a run for the money in performance. A very good sample.

albertporter

Owner
System edited: Added image and description for my two Vibraplane

albertporter

Owner
Ddriveman
Albert,

Thanks for your inputs on your Vibraplanes. That's one area of my system that is still weak i.e. stands and isolation platforms.

Very, very important with non suspension turntables.

I think a Vibraplane can be positive or a negative with a sophisticated turntable suspension such as supplied with SME or Basis because they’re tuned to work out of the box.

My absolutely solid MK3 table and plinth are more like a block of immovable metal, I doubt in my room the table would work without the Vibraplane due to the deep bass and power from my speakers.

I have no proof other than years of listening but I believe a non suspension turntable plus Vibraplane beats most or all suspended tables at isolation.

The trick with Vibraplane is getting mass, air pressure and height adjustments perfect. There is good documentation in the owners book and controls are easy to read and change.

albertporter

Owner
Siddh
Hi Albert,
Thanks for the response. I also have an Air Tight Supreme...it really is supreme, but occasionally I play a Koetsu Urishi for a bit more midrange bloom. Within days I yearn for the extension and dynamic swing offered by the Supreme. I have often considered the Coralstone, in hopes to get the best from both worlds...delineation, and body and soul.

Coralstone is not king of resolution, as you state, but in your system does it leave you wanting?

A very observant post :-). The Air Tight comes as close as possible to being the perfect cartridge for me.

The Koetsu is not about absolute resolution but with my Focal Grande EM, MK3 table and 100% silver cable I’m overflowing with detail and mostly ideal with the majority of my software. I’m just looking for an alternate musical balance and the Lyra Atlas was toward the other end of the spectrum. Change a few things and maybe come to another conclusion.

I have owned or had on trial a good many Koetsu cartridges. This includes at least three other Coralstone as well as the Urushi Wajima, Burma Jade, (current) Jade, Rosewood Signature Platinum and Onyx Platinum.

My favorite is the Coralstone because it has extension and clarity that in some cases rivals the Air Tight. What’s frequently missing is the density contrast of tone which Air Tight delivers like no other.

Still, your comment about Koetsu midrange is absolutely correct. I’m hoping my current DHT phono (which I did not own with previous Koetsu) will make magic to an even greater degree.

I got a glimpse of magic yesterday with a first press (dark green label) Contemporary pressing of Barney Kessel, Modern Jazz Performances From Bizet’s Carmen”

There is so much to like about this performance I don’t know where to start but I can tell you that the Koetsu was a beautiful match and this old tube recording was making some amazing heart tugging sounds.

albertporter

Owner
Ddriveman
Hi Albert,

My I know which model Vibraplane isolation platforms you are using? Active 2212/2214 or passive 2210 ??

My two Vibraplanes are both models 2212-01. The active versions with natural vertical frequency of 2.3 HZ.

I decided against the Vibraplane Panther pump, instead purchased the Silentaire DR150. That’s the Italian made pump Kuzma supplies with their air bearing tonearm. The DR150 produces 114 PSI and easily operates multiple Vibraplane at the same time.

My two Vibraplane are the ones from Sounds Of Silence, the Silentaire pump from an Ebay vendor.

The Vibraplane under the Studer was not as important as the turntable but definitely an improvement. I sometimes get the crazy idea to buy Vibraplanes for my DHT phono and possibly the amps.

albertporter

Owner
Siddh
Hi Albert. How's the Koetsu performing? What led to repurchase of the Coralstone?
Thanks, Steve

Steve,

There’s lot of praise about various phono cartridges and like every other piece one chooses for their system, end results are combination of everything in the mix.

I have to say the Air Tight Supreme is my very favorite cartridge of all time. Other cartridges such as Allnic, Koetsu Jade, Ortofon A90, Lyra Atlas and others all offer an alternate insight to the music. I know there are fans of each of these and for good reason, they are all state of the art.

In the end I wanted an alternative to the Air Tight (again, my favorite) and the Lyra was king of speed and “certain types” of resolution. I felt it was too forward and slightly analytical given my system and taste. I’ve owned at least a half dozen Koetsu both wood and stone bodies and Coralstone is my favorite.

Koetsu is warm compared to Lyra and swaps color of some frequencies back and forth when compared with Air Tight, but also does some special things in the midrange that nothing else offers.

Coralstone is not king of resolution but with certain LPs and all parameters correct, the music goes straight to your heart and you can’t disconnect from that for long enough to pick at it.

I have about 4 hours on it and can hear it settling. I think there are a couple of adjustments that need to be revisited but need more hours before returning to all the tools and having another go.

albertporter

Owner
Harve,

The High Fidelity Tuning Supreme fuses I choose for Focal Grande EM power supply is:

2 ea. 20mm, 2.0A, 250V fast blow

albertporter

Owner
I just spent the past two and a half hours setting up my new Koetsu Coralstone. I used a custom made Mint protractor for SME / MK3. Settings were so close to perfect alignment (coming from Lyra) it was maddening getting the last ten thousandth exact.

Sometimes being this close at the start makes it harder than beginning with a huge error to overcome.

No time to listen to Koetsu and at the same time, my 15A Purist 25th Luminist power cords arrived. Once installed the Allnic M3000 MK2 will have the same advantage (correct IEC size) as the ARC.

We had super sound last night as already mentioned. The silver High Fidelity fuses are very nice upgrade.

albertporter

Owner
Zmanastronomy
I love the Focal speakers. I have a pair in my HT system that really liven the surround sound up very well.

As far as the Supreme fuses breaking in... it's a must.
They will get more body to the instruments and more focus in the imaging.

The lower noise floor will give more space the each instrument on the stage. I'm using 4 Supremes in my system, and it seems to be accumulative in cleaning up the power.
Like you said, several has the same effect as adding a better PC into the system.

Have a great evening Albert.

I agree about fuse break in adding body. At the start I got lower distortion and lower noise but there was a very slight false brightness. Several times during the evening it would improve and as you say, developed more body and smoothed out but did not loose any of the other positive things.

I think from reading reactions here that we are all experiencing similar improvement and each have described it the best we can with words. I think in a few more sessions it will be better in every way.

Has anyone experienced these for long enough to know when they no longer improve with break in?

albertporter

Owner
Jfrech
Hi Richard,

I have experimented...first I like these Hi Fi tuning fuses. I had all gold...now moving my way to all sliver. I can hear a difference in directionality. I can't really always tell which way I like however...

That does not surprise me. Again, I wonder if there is a way to know for sure what direction the fuses (might) be intended to flow.

Then there is opening up the equipment and determine which direction voltage flows through the fuse holder. Very easy on the turntable, not so easy on Focal power supply and DHT phono.

albertporter

Owner
Richardkrebs
Albert.

Great to read about your positive experience with the premium fuses.
A friend has tried a different brand of silver based fuses and we found, to our amazement, that they are very directional....

I believe that other users have found that the HFTS is also a directional.

Wondering if you have experimented with this?

I’m not sure the arrow on the HFTS is part of a logo or an actual indication of direction. I guess I need to look into that. Right now they are breaking in (for SURE) as the system changed before our eyes and ears multiple times this evening.

I think the fuses in the turntable motor controller are OK and over the weekend we got hours on the Allnic DAC with movies, but the DHT phono had zero hours and when we played LP so it changed all night.

albertporter

Owner
Babybear
Hi Albert - sounds like you achieved very good results with the Hi Fi Tuning Supreme fuses. I just pulled the fuse from the Allnic H5000 but my eyes are giving me trouble reading the correct fuse value. It looks like it is a 5A fuse - is that correct? Also is it a slow blow or fast blow fuse?

Hello Arnie,

The fuse is fast acting, gold lettering by the fuse holder (on the rear) indicates 2 amps.

I opted for 3 amp fast blow since many of these premium design fuses fail faster than cheap “off the shelf” designs.

albertporter

Owner
Zmanastronomy
I've had the same experience with the Supreme fuses in my system. Cleaning up the power supply is definitely an under rated subject.
By the way... Your systems looking fantastic.

It was immediate and to my ears and it’s getting better with additional hours. Maybe fuses break in like other wire.

Thank for the compliment about my system, means a lot coming from you. We’ve traded posts for years.

I’m totally pleased with the Focal speakers now that they are broken in. It’s amazing how musical they are compared to what I hear at audio shows.

albertporter

Owner
I finally completed all my testing of High FI Tuning Supreme fuses. I began with amps, then turntable motor controller and this weekend added to preamp, phono, DAC and Focal EM power supply unit.

With the addition of each fuse distortion was reduced, noise level lowered and the music was more focused and flowed like never before. Transparency of the sound stage was improved as was “space definition” between individual instruments.

While this is not equal to replacing a bunch of power cords with high quality options the fuses played some of the same strengths in miniature.

Probably safe to say all fuses combined was equal to one super AC cord which is a nice addition when everything else was pretty much maxed out.

albertporter

Owner
System edited: Added Koetsu Coralstone and Allnic Puritas cartridges. My Lyra Atlas is for sale here at Audiogon.

albertporter

Owner
I put them in yesterday but have not had much time to listen. I had a friend here today and we switched amps several time making it hard to tell about the turntable.

I should have a better idea end of Tuesday evening when everyone is here listening. We could even swap fuses back to old and listen. Pretty easy on MK3 power supply.

albertporter

Owner
Let me know Lawrence. I assume you landed a job in DFW area?

albertporter

Owner
No doubt about the gain diff between RCA and XLR. I have not tried any exotic fuses in the H5000. There is only one for the PS chassis, correct ?
Correct, but I have not swapped any fuses except the new Allnic M3000 amps,

I agree...I love this phono stage...the TAK's for voltage control regulation were a significant upgrade.

Yep, quite an upgrade over stock and the H-5000 was better stock than anything I’ve heard including premium pieces loaded with thousands of dollars worth of NOS tube to bring up performance.

Dallas is expecting another ten inches (plus) rain in the next 48 hours. I may not get to test tomorrow night. I get nervous with lightning and power on and off.

I wish the rain would fall on California, they need it and all our lakes are over capacity.

albertporter

Owner
Are the xlr outs transformer coupled ? Probably a good question for Mr Park.

I don't know the answer, either call or write KS and ask. I did the same test, listened with both RCA and XLR and thought the XLR was quieter, slightly more dynamic and higher gain. There seemed to be no difference in resolution or bandwidth and of course this is by far the best phono I've heard in all my years in audio.

Have you tried the fuses John and I are discussing?

albertporter

Owner
John,

Hey !! It's been awhile. Hope all is going great. Alli graduated from high school Friday. I still remember her watching cartoons and eating chocolates on your sofa as we talked.

Alli was so cute I could not believe it. You're a great Dad to her, it shows when you two are together.

A few posts above you're contemplating the new hi fi tuning black (mostly silver) fuses. I have 4, replacing the hi fi tuning gold fuses in my phono stage, dac, clock and transport. I have to say I'm impressed. Nearly like upgrading a power cord.

I've not installed them but have heard similar comments from other users. Considering the fuse is the weakest link it's not surprising that anything we can do to improve it would be substantial.

I'm putting them everywhere, in my turntable controller, DAC, amps and even the EM power supply for the Focal. I’ll post results once I listen.

albertporter

Owner
I‘ve been testing a new prototype Purist USB cable that we used at T.H.E. Show Newport. This was in the Purist/ Boenicke speaker/ Allnic electronics room.

I’m testing it against my reference, the Audioquest Diamond USB (which I love). Also have the new “Natural Series” Clarity Cable USB prototype.

It’s amazing the difference various USB links contribute to computer music server set up.

I’m also noticing improvement with additional break in using twin KECES Linear power supplies. These replaced the stock digital switching units in my Mac Mini and Data Tale Thunderbolt storage unit.

albertporter

Owner
Rockitman,

I'm using XLR, it was superior in my system to RCA but both sounded excellent. How is your sound, have not seen you post as much lately.

albertporter

Owner
We had a great session tonight, a couple of friends joined in and we played about half digital and half LP.

Check out these titles, maybe listen at Amazon or wherever and see if they appeal to you. I love all three of these CDs we played tonight.

Herbie Hancock, "Gershwin's World"
Monty Alexander, "Stir It Up"
John Scofield, "Uberjam Deux"

Also spun a new LP, unique sound and style from a very talented guy, his second release and a nice, quiet pressing by Quality Record Pressings (Chad at Acoustic).

Blake Mills, "Heigh Ho"

We also listened before and after using Essence of Music CD treatment. Very nice improvement for the little effort required to treat. I heard a demo of this at Newport THE Show but it was far greater improvement on my system.

albertporter

Owner
I just returned from a local Mac computer service center where I got the modification required to mate up with new KECES DC 216 power supply.

Hopefully this will bring my music server closer to my analog.

albertporter

Owner
Retail is $16,900.00. Colors choices black and silver.

I’m seriously considering ordering the new HIFI Tuning (black) fuses to see what that would do to performance. I used HIFI Tuning with VTL and got a big boost.

albertporter

Owner
So what changed besides the KT150s in the MK2? Bigger transformers ... Still 140 wpc?

Power is now 200 WPC and runs 500+ volts on plates. I assume since the transformers look larger it’s a design change to get more out of the KT-150. Then again, it might just cosmetic to signify the upgrade and set apart this new model.

I removed the bottom of one amp after receiving them and noticed MIT capacitors and I don’t remember ever seeing them in previous models. MK2 now requires 10A main fuses, much larger than KT-120 version.

I like this amp a lot, it throws a huge image and allows you to hear microscopic textures never before revealed. It’s going to require more break in before I can describe all the differences between it and my ARC REF 250 and (previous) VTL 750s.

All three of these amps are unique and spectacular in their own way.

albertporter

Owner
Cdrc
Listen to "Swea Pea" from I told you so on OJC # 824. On of the finest Basie tunes from the 70s. Wonderful drumming, wonderful horns, wonderful classic riding-on ball-bearings rythym section, wonderful sounstaging, dynamic range and wonderful drama that just sucks you into the tune having you begging for more. I'm not a big Basie fan of the 70s but this is indeed the definitive 70s Basie tune. Enjoy!

Some of those OJC pressings are amazing. There was a time when Fantasy was dumping their pressings and promoting CD. Consumers could order direct and if I recall, 3 LPs for $12.00 total.

I filled one whole bookshelf with these and enjoy them today. I clicked Amazon and found “Sweet Pea” as sampler. From what I heard this is not typical ‘70s Basie, more like earlier years. Thanks for the suggestion.

albertporter

Owner
Albert - I believe I have this same 15 IPS tape dub. Count Basie in Los Angeles June 1961 - according to the tape notes. Tape Stickers say "Basie Party"

We may have gotten from the same source. It’s a great tape to test the limits of ones amps and speakers. I agree it seems the group is in a good mood, they are absolutely together, so tight yet dynamic as if each were playing to fulfill the crowd by himself.

albertporter

Owner
Mapman
Albert what was the Basie recording?

"Fancy Pants" is a very good sounding standard issue that I am familiar with.

I don’t think this was ever released to the public. I’ve looked several times and none of the tracks appear together on any album I can find.

This has insane energy along with talk and crowd noises, I believe it’s a live recording someone had permission to capture and nothing was ever done with it. Data with the reels indicates transfer was between MTR mastering deck and Studer but I suspect in 1961 the original was recorded with an Ampex.

albertporter

Owner
Amazing Tuesday night session, we began with digital files then switched to LP and ended the evening with a Count Basie master dub that challenges any software I’ve ever heard for dynamic content and raw power.

The Allnic M3000 MK2 held up to all the punishment and never clipped or even showed signs of fatigue. I seldom play at that sound pressure level but wanted to see if I could find a limit with these amps.

As I said before the M3000 MK2 and ARC REF are two completely different animals. I suspect you could fill a room and get split vote on favorite with a mix of music.

Time and long term listening will tell, meanwhile I’m pleased to have two awesome choices, much like the Lyra Atlas and Air Tight Supreme when spinning LPs.

albertporter

Owner
Yesterday the new Allnic M-3000 MK2 mono blocks arrived. I believe this is the first pair in North America. MK2 has new circuit and uses KT-150 power tube like my ARC REF 250 mono blocks.

Last night during regular music session we played these and sound was superb. Although these two amps share same output tubes they have completely different character.

To add to the mix, the ARC has Purist 25th Anniversary Luminist AC and Stillpoints Ultra 5. The Allnic had stock generic moulded AC cord and stock feet.

I have Stillpoints arriving this week and adaptors so AC cable can work in both amps for further listening. Below is image snapped with my Sony point and shoot.

ARC and Allnic

albertporter

Owner
System edited: Replaced system description to remove (sold) VTL amps now replaced with Audio Research REF 250 with KT-150 tubes.

albertporter

Owner
System edited: Added two images and descriptions to my system.

albertporter

Owner

I have two KECES DC-216 power supplies ordered. I plan on testing their performance against stock digital power supplies of the Mac Mini and DataTale 16 TB Thunderbolt atttached storage unit.

Links below to a couple of small web images I cleaned up with Photoshop. I’ll capture better images after they arrive.

KECES DC-216

KECES DC-216 interior

They are supplied with custom cables for each component. Another spot for potential upgrade but I will proceed with this one step at a time.

.

albertporter

Owner
Thank you Bill, it was a pleasure meeting you too.

I hope you join us for our music get together. It’s always on Tuesday night unless a special get together. There might be a test to evaluate a new piece of equipment but typically just an excuse for friends to get together and listen to music.

albertporter

Owner
Just received another batch of Stillpoints. I plan on trying the Ultra Mini and Ultra SS under my DAC and turntable power supply.

The Ultra Mini made an incredible difference under the power supply of the Focal EM drive. I don't understand why it was so big in that obscure position but I’m happy to have the upgrade.

albertporter

Owner
Hey VPN, I’m sure it’s great as Babybear (Arnie) has adopted Totaldac for his system and he only purchases great sounding gear.

Arnie is coming this Saturday to pick up some tubes, I plan on asking about the USB when I see him. Thanks for the suggestion.

albertporter

Owner
A great Tuesday night get together this evening.

I’ve been burning in a new Purist Dominus Luminist RCA between DAC and preamp for more than a week. There are some things Dominus does that are amazing and then switching back to the 25th Anniversary results in a completely different perspective on the music.

In the end the Purist 25th Anniversary won out but I will say, if I had a DAC that tended toward brightness, Dominus Luminist would be first choice.

Also tested a brand new version of the Natural series USB from Clarity Cable. This one is even more linear than the last copy I got and I’m now on a mission to burn it for another 100 hours and try to reach a decision as to which is best overall for all my music.

It’s amazing how much the USB matters. In my case between Mac Mini and Allnic DAC. We’re testing Purist Ultimate USB, AudioQuest Diamond USB and this new Clarity Natural USB.

There were only five listening tonight but we pretty much agreed on everything we heard and will revisit the same test again next week with more hours on the cable.

As always, long term relaxed listening to decide on these things.

albertporter

Owner
Jwm
Albert have you heard both the smooth plate and ribbed Telefunken 12ax7. What are the differences and what did you like? Thanks Jeff

I’ve heard both and in fact own both. I’ve experimented mostly in the Aesthetix IO phono since it’s a big contributor to performance in that circuit.

Short answer is both are excellent, almost decided by sample rather than design. The ribbed plate have a bit more sparkle and drive in the upper frequencies so if that’s desirable choose it rather than smooth.

As with all things high end audio, the whole system is part of the decision process. Sometimes the call is made to correct tonal balance elsewhere.

albertporter

Owner
David,

No significant savings in purchasing a lesser step down transformer, unless you opt for one of the cheap Chinese units offered at Ebay. I admit I did not test those and quite possibly some are up to the task but I preferred keeping reliability and quality at the forefront in my selection.

Failure of the step down might or might now show immediately and you have to consider what might happen with extended input of 20% greater voltage than your Technics was rated for. For all I know it might run forever in an out of spec condition but the price of a new MK3 power supply makes this decision more about protecting investment than shopping for the cheapest option.

If you can find the Hammond then you will have an stable converter to power your table and it is a bit less than the Nissyo. I ran a Hammond for several years and it’s isolation transformer design has some advantage.

It’s rating means it’s never stressed and it’s a true isolation transformer design blocks trash and noise from the mains from passing into the motor controller.

As I posted earlier, I could not hear any difference in performance between the Japan converter and Hammond other than ability to use a premium AC cord. A premium cord was a significant improvement in my system and the Purist 25th Anniversary with it’s filter network box was likely redundant with the isolation transformer but none the less a substantial audible improvement. In any case the converter is a tiny investment in the total parts of one’s restored turntable arm and cartridge.

albertporter

Owner
David, additional thoughts.

I’ve listened to both of these and the differences are pretty much impossible to hear.

However, some Hammond 179 series can have mechanical hum if you get a bad sample. Tightening the transformer screws can eliminate this and sometimes not audible depending on how far away you sit.

The Japan made transformer is dead quiet but has Japan (two prong) outlet, meaning USA IEC three prong AC plug will not fit without an adaptor.

I have all my Technics rebuilt with premium IEC connector at motor controller so for me it’s nice to have the USA three connector available so I can use premium AC cord which is very audible in my system.

The stock Technics motor controller has a two prong AC cord attached, and is virtually identical to USA for a lamp or similar (ungrounded) device.

So depending on how far you put the Technics and what you plan on using for AC cord, one of the options I listed will work perfectly.

albertporter

Owner
Hello David,

Two best options I’ve used are Nissyo 120V to 100V 1500W Step Down Voltage Converter. Amazon listed as model SDX-1500U (Japan Model) for about $200.00.

I’ve also used the 179 series Hammond transformers. The 179 series is a true isolation transformer design in a steel case and provides three prong outlet so you can use premium power cord to Technics motor controller if you wish. Here is link to spec sheet for Hammond.

Hammond Specs

albertporter

Owner
Happy St Patricks Day !

We enjoyed our usual Tuesday music get together and had a wee dram of Irish Whiskey Red Breast

Sound was good both before and after the Irish Whiskey :-).

albertporter

Owner
I agree with you that the Supreme's tonal balance is superb, at least on the SME long arm. I'm curious to learn what it is about a cartridge's design that affects tracking. Compliance, stylus shape?

That’s all I have at the moment. When I get more details or make the purchase I’ll post additional comments.

albertporter

Owner
If you come to Sao Paulo/Brazil, let me know. Cheers, VPN

That would be a treat.

Unfortunately I have no photo assignments there so not likely, but I‘m sure I would enjoy hearing the system. Dunlavy was a great designer, he was still active until just a few years ago, lived to be near eighty.

albertporter

Owner
By the way Vn101606, those Dunlavy Audio Labs SC-VI speakers you have in your system were years ahead of anything at that time and still stand their ground today. Congrats on a great choice.

albertporter

Owner
Peter,

I got a quote from Arturo but don't remember precisely. Seems it was $15K or so. I'm tentatively a buyer since I love their technology so much.

The performance report I got was it’s better at tracking and resolution but no change in the already (near) perfect tonal balance the Supreme delivers.

albertporter

Owner
Vn101606
Albert,

Do you plan on testing the new top of the line Air Tight PC-1 Magnum Opus? I would be curious to hear your comparison with the PC-1 Supreme.
Cheers,

VPN

I've already ask for one and on the list.

albertporter

Owner
Ketcham,

The resistor mod that effects B+ voltage. Sound is a bit more relaxed and tube life restored to normal after my work.

The few early D5000s like mine had a calculation error on two resistors. It’s a 15 minute job to fix and Allnic throws in free parts and a free set of tubes.

Wish everyone was so generous. I was already happy with it and now it’s better.

albertporter

Owner
Tonight was another great night for music and for learning. I did the update on the Allnic D5000 DAC which was a nice upgrade but also continued break in on the new USB cable and installed new isolators under the Focal EM power supply.

The USB is the new Clarity Cable, The Natural. I also have Purist regular USB, Purist Ultimate USB and AudioQuest Diamond.

Each of these (and the six or so others before them) all have a different sonic signature that is attractive. A friend in my group brought the Clarity USB a couple of times before and I preferred the Purist and AudioQuest over it.

Then a few weeks ago he brought this new one, The Natural and I liked it a lot except for a slight rise in upper midrange. The manufacturer took it back and built a new one which I installed last Tuesday.

Out of the box it was way better than before and running slightly ahead of all the others I’ve tried. Tonight with a weeks worth of hours on it and the upgrade to the DAC I have absolutely the best digital I’ve ever had and maybe the best I’ve ever heard (at any price).

I didn’t think I would be so lucky to get more with the next test but replaced the TTM record weight with a Stillpoints LPI and it’s better in most ways, except for the very deepest bass. More test will follow on this.

As they say in the TV ads, “But wait, there’s more.” I installed Stillpoints Ultra Mini’s under the Focal supply and all of us were in disbelief the remainder of the evening. Jazz, Electronic and Classical in both analog and digital, the Focal were singing in the most sonically transparent voice and without a hint of stress, even on huge dynamic pieces.

It’s suggested by Stillpoints to try two LPI under each Focal supply in place of the three Ultra Mini under each. We may try that next week if it doesn’t feel like too much to take on so soon.

albertporter

Owner
So what's the final verdict on the L5000? Has the past issues been resolved? Have you replaced the L3000 with L5000 in your system?

Issues have indeed been resolved. The L5000 offers DHT sound and is much improved. Maybe it’s the new Kron tubes or maybe Allnic has made changes to the circuit as well as tubes.

I have both it and the L3000 and currently listening to L3000. I have so many changes with multiple Stillpoints, new High Fidelity AC cables and new Purist 25th Anniversary cables I felt it was necessary to be grounded back at the preamp I’ve listened to for the past 6 years, which is the L3000.

My L5000 may be going to Axpona and if so, would be after that before I put back in my system.

albertporter

Owner
Jwm
Albert you should post what music you play for the group on Tuesday and give us your critique. This could lead us to buy more music. We need your weekly updates.

It changes every week, depending on mood and who comes to listen. There are at least twenty people who come for music but any given week it could be only a couple of listeners show and the next week ten or twelve. Just the nature of professionals with work and family obligation.

I'll list albums that I remember from the past few weeks, questions are welcome.

Massive Attack, Heligoland
Duke Ellington, Piano In The Fore-Ground
Sonny Clark, Cool Struttin'
Cassandra Wilson, Blue Moon Daughter
Duke Ellington and Ray Brown, This One's For Blanton
Kate Bush, Aerial
Eels, Electro Shock Blues
Crosby Stills and Nash, 45 RPM ressue
Jim Morrison, Amercian Prayer
Pat Metheny Group, Offramp
Felix Laband, Dark Days Exit
Gotan Project, Lunatico
Fiona Apple, Extraordinary Machine
Charlie Hayden, The Golden Number
Barney Kessel, Carmen
Dr. Lonnie Smith, Spiral
Stanley Turrentine, Jubilee Shout
DRIVE, The Movie Soundtrack
Anna Von Hausswolff, Ceremony
Daft Punk, Random Access Memories
Kenny Burrell, Midnight Blue
Todd Terje, It's Album Time
Brian Blade and Fellowship Band, Landmarks
Herbie Hancock, Takin' Off

albertporter

Owner
Reads like I should consider EML XLS as an alternative to my Takatsuki if I do more testing.

albertporter

Owner
Analogluvr,

I have no experience with Mastersound Compact 300B but assume it’s an amplifier. Making power is what the 300B is designed for, but in the Allnic H5000 circuit it serves as a voltage regulator.

KS Park of Allnic told me the impedance of a 300B plays as large a role in performance as the tube design. It comes stock with Electro-Harmonix 300B and the performance is outstanding in spite of that being a rather pedestrian 300B version.

My first move from stock was the well regarded Kron 300B but In spite of being a much more expensive option, it was a performance downgrade.

You’re the second person to suggest the Sophia as a alternative. I will absolutely try them. The Takatsuki is a stunning upgrade but it’s always possible a better option exists and perhaps for less money than the Tak.

If you have time it would be interesting to read performance pecking order of those 300B you tested.

albertporter

Owner
Rockit,

In my system the Takatsuki were at least equal to the rectifier upgrade, maybe even greater. I absolutely love them.

Maybe with more time on them you will get further improvements.

albertporter

Owner
Rockitman,

300B Takatsuki tubes installed? Impressions?

I'm warming up the system for our usual Tuesday night session. I can hear the magic from my office and of course much better when I step into the room.

albertporter

Owner
Please post your listening experience once you have a chance to hear what they do.

albertporter

Owner
Rockitman,

Your are correct, I mistakenly typed D5000 instead of H5000. My apologies, the test was indeed with Takatsuki 300B tubes in the Allnic H5000 DHT phono.

Everything I and Babybear said about performance is correct and since you own a H5000 it’s worth experimenting.

albertporter

Owner
Rockitman,

I described the upgrade on Jan 21, but here‘s the information again.

Tonight we begin with stock EH 300B tubes in the Allnic D5000 and after a few hours replaced them with Takatsuki 300B.

This was a serious upgrade, much more transparent and live sounding along with better dynamics and speed. Overall these 300B played much larger with deeper soundstage and my impressions are the bass might be going deeper as well.

I’ll develop a better sense of the upgrade over time. It’s only been one evening but I’m very pleased so far and everyone in attendance agreed with what was heard.

Regarding suggestions, the only other 300B I’ve tried is the Kron and I hate to say it, but the stock cheap Russian Electro-Harmonix was better in this circuit. In the Allnic this tube is related to voltage control rather than making power as it would be required to do in an amplifier circuit.

These Takatsuki tubes are expensive and if the EML 300B XLS sounds as good for less money I welcome that option. I will actively work toward giving the EML a try.

albertporter

Owner
I’ll look up your email address in my saved messages and send you contact info for the place in Japan I bought from.

albertporter

Owner
Gsm18439
FWIW. . . The Takatsukis are available from Amazon. The fulfilment is by Amtrans.

I’m a huge Amazon fan but that said, I purchased a matched pair for a few hundred dollars less by going direct.

Still, that’s a guaranteed, money back solid source for this tube and Amazon is the kind of company that would stand behind you if things went wrong.

albertporter

Owner
Rockitman
Arnie and Albert...are you hearing improvements with rolling the H5000 DHT 300B's. Those Takatsuki's are awful expensive for a test....to see if they work better than stock.
Rockitman

Both Arnie and I think the Takatsuki is worth the price. Unknown if the EML 300B favored by Lak and Charles1dad do the same job in this circuit.

I'll eventually do that test if you want to wait. I can’t guess the outcome but guarantee the Takatsuki 300B in the Allnic H 5000 DHT phono provides a unexpected performance boost.

albertporter

Owner
Babybear
Hi Albert,

I am glad that you are enjoying the Takatsuki 300B tube in the Allnic H5000 Phono Stage and you are hearing the same improvements that I heard with this tube compared to the stock EH 300B tube.

A big thank you Arnie. I would not have purchased the Takatsuki 300B tubes without your recommendation.

My system has moved light years since you were last here. I hope you can find time to come listen with us again.

albertporter

Owner
Sincere thanks to all of you. Tonight we begin with stock EH 300B tubes in the Allnic D5000 and after a few hours replaced them with Takatsuki 300B.

This was a serious upgrade, much more transparent and live sounding along with better dynamics and speed. Overall these 300B played much larger with deeper soundstage and my impressions are the bass might be going deeper as well.

I’ll develop a better sense of the upgrade over time. It’s only been one evening but I’m very pleased so far and everyone in attendance agreed with what was heard.

Regarding suggestions, the only other 300B I’ve tried is the Kron and I hate to say it, but the stock cheap Russian Electro-Harmonix was better in this circuit. In the Allnic this tube is related to voltage control rather than making power as it would be required to do in an amplifier circuit.

These Takatsuki tubes are expensive and if the EML 300B XLS sounds as good for less money I welcome that option. I will actively work toward giving the EML a try.

albertporter

Owner
Ketcham,

Thanks for your email and new source in Japan. I ordered a pair of Takatsuki 300B and will post results once they are installed in my Allnic H5000 DHT phono.

albertporter

Owner
Thanks Ketcham,

It took the wind out of my sails when Yohei quoted hundreds of dollars more than expected. I am waiting for CES to end and I’ll speak with the US importer who is a friend.

I’ll also check out the other options you suggested, I appreciate your effort and information !

Tonight was Tuesday night music, six of us listening and one of the more enjoyable sessions in months. Seems like every song from the music server or LP made us think of another cut to play. There were favorites mixed with obscure (and forgotten) cuts as well.

Bill Evans, “Waltz for Debby”
Stevie Ray Vaughn, “Riviera Paradise”
Shelly Mann, “My Fair Lady”
Shriekback, “The Reptiles and I”
Eels, “Susan’s House”
Soundtrack, “The Emerald Forest”
Enigma, “Mea Culpa”
Richenel, “L’esclave Endormi”
Blue Man Group,”Tension 2”
Johnny Winter, “TV Mama
Gil Scott-Heron, “New York is Killing Me”
Man Jumping, “On The Rocks”
Massive Attack, “Flat Of The Blade”
Allen Toussiant, “St James Infirmary”
The Black Keys, “Ten Cent Pistol”
Pat Metheny, “Have You Heard”
Kate Bush, “Lake Tahoe”

This night was all about the music, lots of fun and great sound. The Focal and ARC REF 250 really love each other, sound seems to improve as hours build.

.

albertporter

Owner
EXCELLENT

albertporter

Owner
I’ve been going for 31 years but occasionally must skip. THE Show pulling out and removing my need to cover that show made a big difference in cost to attend.

All the focus seems to be going to Munich, RMAF and Newport California show. I’ll be there for all those.

albertporter

Owner
Isochronism

Albert, Your reason for a "Best Christmas in years" I fully understood.
That is what it's all about and I wish you more of those, plus a very Happy New Year.

Thank you ! Very kind of you to respond. I hope when Kensey graduates she will seek employment in Dallas since our family and hers are all here.

That would be excellent, my son would be close enough so I don’t have to count on holidays for a visit. Hope you and other Audiogon friends had a wonderful new year celebration.

albertporter

Owner
Lak
I agree, I find the Takatsuki 300B to be my favorite 300B tube.

I’m hoping Ketcham can come up with a quote for a pair. If not I have access to the USA importer who is a friend.

albertporter

Owner
Ketcham,

Sorry to be so slow, my son and his fiancée visited us for a week.

Best Christmas in years. I am so happy to have had them here, I only wish work didn’t require thier return so soon.

I spoke to Babybear (Arnie Sanders) he says the Takatsuki 300B are amazing, a big upgrade in his Allnic H5000 phono. What is the price if I get you to help with this? I need a pair for the application.

albertporter

Owner
Please keep me informed if they make a Kron substitute for the Marconi's. Have you found any sound benefit rolling the 300B's in the power supply ? Those tubes are expensive for the best one's.

I tried the Kron 300B in my H5000 and did not like the result. I read that the Takatsuki TA-300B was a big improvement but don’t know who wrote that, maybe Babybear?

Raven Audio is supposed to come by with 300B amps and their new preamp for me to audition. I may ask permission to try their Princess 300 B in the Allnic.

albertporter

Owner
Rocketman,

I agree about the VT50, my point was if Kron were to develop a newly manufactured version of the VT50 it might be even better performance and reduce the pressure on NOS version.

I now have four back up Marconi VT50s, so no worries.

Did you replace Allnic stock Russian 300B with something you like better?

Do you prefer sound with Allnic chimneys on or off?

albertporter

Owner
I tried tapping on the tube, both in and out of the circuit to no avail.

I received two NOS replacements and installed them but with all the holiday madness I’ve not had time to listen.

KS is working with Kron to possibly construct a new improved version of the VT50. Could mean a performance boost as well as solving the issues of locating perfect NOS.

What 300B did you wind up with in the H5000? I know you and Babybear were both experimenting about the same time. Also, have you experimented with running with tube chimneys removed? Mine are off right now and I like the look.

albertporter

Owner
Ketcham
I emailed KS and he stated all L5000 manufactured from January, 2011 have the upgraded transformer.

I spoke to KS on the phone, I too was told 2011 but not the month. I had an L5000 that was from 2012 and I looked on as transformers were upgraded at Rick Schultz home by KS when he visited me last year.

The KRON tubes are well built and without issue. There was no need to float them on the pins and off the chassis.

The new (one week old) L5000 I have here does have the Kron tubes floated above the socket with a thick ribber like spacer. I can be removed but I have not experimented with that.

I had noise issues creep into the H5000 phono last night, tracked it down to a noisy Marconi VT50. I have two new ones on the way.

albertporter

Owner
Ddriveman
Just to confirm, the L5000 MK2 mentioned above is the same as the L5000DHT? How about hum and noise levels? Very low and better than L3000?

Yes, I’m referring to the Allnic DHT 5000 series preamp.

The previous L5000 had issue with microphonics and mediocre signal to noise. This one is EXCELLENT. I would say on par with L3000 which has been my standard for six years now.

The bandwidth of this new L5000 is superior to my L3000d and high frequencies are beautifully textured and musical with more extension. Bass is more 3D image and is more see through. Speakers disappear even more than before and It’s only got a few hours on it.

albertporter

Owner
12-09-14: Ketcham
I remember discussing this topic over on audioshark. I am almost certain there were no transformer upgrades for the L5000. Please correct me if I am wrong.

I just hung up the phone with KS at Allnic Korea, he confirmed the L5000 was modified and new transformers 2011/2012.

Probably was the old model I had here because this new one blows away the previous version.

I’m not totally certain with only 12 hours on the L5000, but now seriously considering keeping it and selling off my L3000.

albertporter

Owner
I know the transformers were upgraded on the 3000 Series, assumed the 5000 would receive the same treatment since it’s a equal age design.

albertporter

Owner
Ketcham,

I think that is correct. The transformers were upgraded about the same time as the 3000 series, perhaps a year or two ago?

I’m eager to hear it since everyone seems to love this piece.

albertporter

Owner
I received the new Allnic L5000 MK2, looking forward to trying it against the L3000 which is my standard.

I also have three new AC cables from Purist Audio and Jim (of Purist) is visiting tomorrow (Monday).

As I audition these alternatives I’ll post results. I still have not had a chance to try the NOS Sovtek input tubes for ARC REF 250 that Jfrech loaned me.

albertporter

Owner
Agree Mapman.

albertporter

Owner
Weakness?

It’s the same as it’s always been. A high resolution system walks a narrow line between musical satisfaction and too much analytical information.

We all want our systems to sound like real music so resolution is important. Problem is, no high end system can mimic music perfectly so it’s an eternal fight to try and balance everything.

I think one of the most difficult things is figuring out if something will work or not before you own it. Even listening to other systems at shows and friends homes is difficult to translate into your own taste.

As for specific components the Focal is about as good as it gets. There are several other speakers in that narrow category but regardless of which is chosen the problem will be the same.

albertporter

Owner
Albert,
can you give an update on KT150s. Are you satisfied with them and suggest others to upgrade their 250s with KT150s ?

From my perspective the KT150 tube is a must have for ARC REF 250. Likely same results also with ARC REF 75.

The KT150 is not officially blessed, so until that happens you (and I) are on our own. It was suggested that super matched tubes MUST be used and Kevin at Upscale is one of the few other than ARC capable of providing.

Sometime in early 2015 I suspect Audio Research will have KT150 tube stocks available for new amps and perhaps replacements for customers. At that point, you’ll have a choice of at least two source.

From a strictly performance point of view the KT150 was described by me in an earlier post.

It’s an important upgrade, one I would not give up, especially after living with the positive changes (and no negatives) it brought to my system.

albertporter

Owner
My favorite line from last night was, "Even those who believe their system is perfectly set up are always just one record-clamp away from hearing something new and starting all over again." So true. Good times.

I have multiple record clamps and mats and many others that I’ve tried in the system. I swapped out between three or four clamps during Tuesday music session and Chris was easily able to distinguish between them.

Which is best depends on many factors and like footers, it’s mechanical and important to experiment.

albertporter

Owner
I love digital, it's so simple :-).

albertporter

Owner
I'm waiting on word from Allnic as to compatibility with word or reference clock.

Today Arnie(Babybear) pointed out something very important. For a clock to be effective it should reference the source and the DAC.

Good point, and a Mac Mini has no input for clock, meaning only partial benefit for one's investment in my kind of setup.

albertporter

Owner
All good data, I'm interested in trying one of these but need a few weeks to complete the current round of experiments before introducing additional variables.

I spoke to a fellow music lover today on the phone that threw me another curve. He says try the Antelope Isochrone 10M Atomic Reference Generator (clock) on the Allnic D5000. Appears there is a BNC input for same on the back.

Anyone tried a Antelope clock?

albertporter

Owner
Not analytically, just let music wash over you. Unlike other standard component, or even cable upgrades, the change is more subtle yet more pertinent, at the same time. By eliminating noise/hash etc, music seems more meaningful and as such the listening experience more intense (in a relaxing way

Does that description apply to digital, analog or both? You think (you and Rocketman) this is as important as investing $13K somewhere else in the system? That's a lot of money toward grounding.

albertporter

Owner
You think Entreq is better than the Tripoint?

What is cost and how much space does it take up?

albertporter

Owner
Art Dudley is as devout and fervent regarding analog front ends as you. For this reason his praise of the Allnic DAC is noteworthy in its ability to reproduce music at such a satisfying level.

I agree, this is the first musically satisfying digital I've owned. I'm able to go back and forth between it and analog any time during a listening session. It used to be once tape or turntable was played there was no way you could go back to digital.

I agree with your DHT amplifier comment, stellar sound with less than stellar measurements.

As has been stated here at Audiogon many times, we probably don't know exactly what to measure.

albertporter

Owner
Roxy54
Thanks Albert. I was curious, because you are always looking for ways to refine your system, and every time I read accounts on the forums by users of these devices, they seem to consider it a life changing experience, in the context of their music system that is.

I would not turn down an offer to audition either of those products, it they provided performance consumate with pricing I would add to my system.

albertporter

Owner
Charles1dad
Hi Albert,
There's an ongoing thread regarding the Allnic DHT DAC. It revolves around poor measurements noted by JA of Stereophile. Art Dudley who reviewed it and actually listened to it found it to sound wonderful. You obviously find the Allnic DAC to be superb given your and your group's listening impressions. I suspect it does sound terrific. It seems you are able to move freely between it and your analog and enjoy both sources. That's a good outcome.

I read that thread but thought I should stay out of it. I only choose equipment that pleases me and until I heard the Allnic D5000 only the Stahl~Tek impressed me.

Last night we did indeed move between analog and digital and although I much prefer analog, the digital was doing an excellent job of allowing me to follow the music without thinking about the equipment.

As for the comments at Stereophile, I don't know what or how the DAC was measured but often DHT circuits don't measure well, even when they sound excellent.

The best I ever heard Scaena speakers was at THE Show Florida powered by some DHT mono blocks from Sweden. Later I found out they do not measure well, why I don't know.

albertporter

Owner
Roxy54
Albert,
I have respect for your opinions, as well as your amazing system. Therefore, I am curious about your thoughts concerning the expensive, but apparently very effective Entreq and Tripoint grounding systems. Is it a path that you have considered, and have you ever had a chance to audition either of these?

I've been curious about these but have absolutely no experience with either. I don't think a person could pass judgement without listening and I have not heard either.

albertporter

Owner
Great Tuesday night get together, eight of us listened until late.

The new Mac Mini computer absolutely helped the digital sound over the previous (2012 version) and both the Allnic DHT phono and DHT DAC got a boost from old Iso Bearing footers. I used Iso Bearings under my Aesthetix IO and Callisto, they were my favorite footer for that application as well as several other pieces.

I have boxes of footers going back years and each has strengths and weaknesses. It seem lately everything has gone to Stillpoints and they absolutely do some things better than any other device, but for some reason certain tube gear, including both of my DHT pieces, resonance control for chassis and tubes outweigh solid coupling.

I don't want to go too crazy on this post but tonight might be the best sound I've ever had for both my analog and digital sound. I was getting ultra high resolution with perfect tonal balance and great dynamics. Usually I have a complaint or wish list for one or the other.

albertporter

Owner
Just curious why at this stage of the game you didn't opt to go for a dedicated music server ala Bryston or the likes?

Honesty I guess I did not even consider any alternatives. The sound with my current Mac Mini plus JRiver and Allnic DAC is the best I've had my digital.

The Mac is relatively inexpensive and JRiver is perfect for my need. Hard to imagine that computer server will become obsolete, unknown if other brands will fare as well.

albertporter

Owner
I have not installed the 6H30 tubes.

Just about the time I was ready to experiment the KT150 tubes arrived along with two of Rick's High Fidelity AC cable and the new Purist Luminist umbilical cables for the Focal.

Too much at one time and if that wasn't enough my new Mac Mini arrived.

I ordered it direct from Mac, the best of everything on it. I think it will be an upgrade but just ahead of Tuesday music night is not a good time to tear into it.

albertporter

Owner
John,

Miss you living in Dallas and listening with us on Tuesday nights. Please join us again when you can, the system has evolved quite a lot since your last visit.

albertporter

Owner
Peterayer
That is a nice comment from Cto007. Albert, I just scrolled through your system photos again and noticed the dining room table at the far end of your listening room. It must be wonderful to sit there surrounded by all of those LPs enjoying a good meal. Do you often have company over for dinner?

Occasionally, although mostly it's family since our music meetings include dinner out with anyone who want's to participate. There is a lot of wine, beer and scotch (self) served at that table during music.

Our house is very relaxed environment. I hate stuffy surroundings, we have slate floor, wool rugs and leather furniture, easy for humans to deal with :-).

We carry our plates over to the room he calls "his vault." Like a good wine cellar that has a tasting table with a couple of candles in the middle of racks and racks of wine bottles, this guy has a round table in a room surrounded by his vast collection of records. The music system is in another room. This is his sanctuary in which he reads music scores and locates a treasured recording to spin on his turntable.

That sounds like an incredible experience. Reading it reminds me of when Andrew Litton was Dallas conductor and joined us Tuesday nights for music. He listened COMPLETELY different than anyone I have ever known. All of us a listening to the music as a presentation-sometimes with focus on equipment.

Andrew was listening to the people and often heard mistakes or something in the room with the performers that none of us noticed. One occasion I will never forget. LP of Oscar Peterson, who Andrew loved to listen to, was spinning and he said, "Did you hear that?"

No, none of us did and it took lifting the tonearm and playing that bit five times before everyone else got what he was talking about. There was a tambourine sitting on the piano and although it was picked up ever so gently Andrew noticed the sound of it and the change of tone of the piano.

Ever since then I've had deep respect for people in his position, I cannot imagine the stress of trying to achieve musical and technical perfection in the same performance.

albertporter

Owner
That was totally unexpected. Thank you that much appreciated compliment.

albertporter

Owner
Thank you for the kind report Dover.

albertporter

Owner
Mikeba316
Albert, The Allnic H5000 DHT Phono has me intrigued. I've read your prior posts about this unit regarding better resolution and more bandwidth at both ends of the spectrum. Would you mind commenting further about tone and timber and how it handles space and soundsatge as compared to the H3000 which I currently own?

I too owned the H3000, superb unit and what I went to after owning Aesthetix for nearly ten years. The H5000 is much more resolved, better dynamics and more open. It's equally warm tonal balance as the H3000 (and Aesthetix IO) but more detail than either without any hint of grit or false brightness. The H5000 is the best phono I've ever heard.
Excuse me if this gets posted twice. I thought I sent this to you a couple days ago. Not sure what happened.

I've been unable to access Audiogon forums for five of the past six days. Oddly enough I just emailed Audiogon about the problem and before enough time to receive a reply, I was able to access again.

albertporter

Owner
Linnipo12,

I emailed ARC recently and their position remains that their engineering has not authorized the Kt150 in the ref250.

The REF 250 is designed to accommodate the KT150, I believe ARC will make a formal announcement in 2015 and supply product with the tube.
You were of great help to me many years ago with your advice on the IO phono stage which I still own. I will follow your system and look forward to your future posts

Thank you, I had a very long love affair with Aesthetix, excellent product and tubes make all the difference in that circuit as well.

albertporter

Owner
This past Tuesday night we met as usual for music at my home. The KT-150 tubes are still breaking in but stunning upgrade for the ARC REF 250.

One of my regular guys walked in, listened for 20 seconds and ask "Where did you put the subwoofer?"

He knew better but the bass was incredibly improved, not only how deep it went but CONTROL beyond anything before and very transparent. Transparent is not the typical term to describe bass but it applies here.

Other improvements include much larger but still natural sound stage. Hard to quantify in percentage but nearly as big now as my Dali Megaline dipole speakers were (and they threw HUGE soundstage).

Everything is lower distortion but especially beautiful in extreme highs, not even a hint of edge or brightness, even on bad recordings.

Last, the dynamics were greatly improved at every frequency, not just bass and intelligibility has gone way up.

On the 45RPM Classic repress of Crosby Stills and Nash the voices are totally distinct in a way I've never heard before.

The ARC REF amp was designed for the KT-150 tube so perhaps this is what it was supposed to sound like all along. In any case I'm grateful the tubes are such an upgrade and allow me to hear the Focal like never before.

albertporter

Owner
Mribob
With all the recent changes to your system, with tubes, etc, still waiting for your opinion regarding the HF power cords. Must be hard to separate and identify what is creating each level of improvement. I have two pairs of his IC's, and loved the improvement.

I have Rick's best IC for my SME tonearm but I did not like the results. Rick said likely due to change in inductance and load imposed on the tiny moving coil cartridge (Lyra Atlas) output into my phono.

The power cords are certainly easy to hear in my system, the resolution is very up front and obvious but completion (back end) of each note seems a bit shortened and tonal balance is very different (brighter).

I'm trying to weigh strengths of each along with tube changes as well as a couple of new Purist Luminist umbilicals on the Focal EM drive.

I have four AC cables now for my Audio Research REF 250 amps. These are without a doubt, the pickiest amps "ever" for AC cable matching.

That said, all my testing is limited to time before the KT-150 tubes, which have been in less than 24 hours.

It all matters, I'm being cautious and patient as usual.

albertporter

Owner
Knghifi

Been a very busy week but will take time to call Kevin Deal tomorrow. Thank You for sharing the results.

Tell Kevin I said hello.

I almost ordered KT-150 from the supplier directly (I have an account). Then after considering the ultra tight matching required I decided it was worth the extra price for Upscale.

Even if I had an Amplitrex it would likely require a hundred KT-150s to get sixteen at perfect match on every parameter.

Let me know how you do.

albertporter

Owner
Veerapaneni
Albert, were you able to close the top cover with KT-150s in place ?

KT-150 tubes are a little tight "side to side" but there's plenty of room between each tube top and ARC cover.

albertporter

Owner
Jwm
Does anyone know if you can use KT-120 or 150's in the Ref 210 mono blocks that preceded the 250's?

I came to post about my KT-150 tubes just installed in my ARC REF. These came from Upscale Audio matched and cryo treated.

Short report, they replaced my KT-120 and played without incident and I could have gone without even setting bias, they were that close.

I'm always hesitant to make comments this early on but based on what I'm hearing I cannot imagine anyone not loving these tubes.

The sound stage opened up so much it sounds like a different system, decay and space abounds side to side and front to rear distortion has been greatly reduced as well. The deep bass has more control and extreme highs have more extension without sounding sandy or glassy. Midrange sounds like a blend between 300B and EL34.

If your amp can use these, go for it.

In direct response to Jwm, call ARC and ask if your ARC 210 are compatible. If not, maybe they can modify the power supply. I think it would be worth it, the REF 210 would likely respond identically to mine the design is so similar.

albertporter

Owner
Barrysandy
Thought I saw you had a Lyra Etna you planned to try. I would really be interested in knowing your thoughts about it if so.

Still on back order, they are almost a year behind. Could be as bad as the Lyra Atlas backlog. Once it arrives I'll post impressions.

If you haven't tried Alan Kafton's Audio Dharma cable cooker you should consider it on your new cables. Huge improvement.
I use mostly Purist Audio Design cable, they do complete break in at the factory for no additional charge when requested.

If I ever discover a cable I like more than Purist I will ask Alan about the Audio Dharma.

albertporter

Owner
Knghifi,

Already received an email back from Eugene, he has older stocks coming in November, just as you said.

Thank you for what appears to be a solid contact for 6H30 DR.

albertporter

Owner
I dropped him an email. Thanks for the lead, hope it works out.

albertporter

Owner
Knghifi
Can't wait to hear your impressions on the KT150s. I only have ~220 hrs on my ref250 so tube rolling have to wait. Once my MW Sony HAPZ1-ES arrives in ~2 weeks, I will start racking up the hours. My 70's 6h30-dr and TS NOS 6550 are patiently warming up in the bullpen. Probably buzz Kevin Deal next week for my KT150s.

BTW, if you're still looking for 6h30-dr, Eugene from www.conusaudio.com is expected some in Nov. Not sure if they are 70's or 80's. Luckily I found mine after some digging.

KT150 tubes will be here later this week, maybe install by weekend and post impressions even though they won't have enough hours to be at best.

I typed in search for the conusaudio site and looked at his 6H30 tubes. Are those pencil marks on the bottom mica?

Maybe ask seller for tighter view or higher quality image. Look at this site, it will help you identify. DR6H30

albertporter

Owner
Jwm
Sorry your not going, I will be at CES. I don't care much about the Show. They did not have that many attendees. I spend most of my time at the Venetian. The only thing I will miss are the two doctors and their wine from NFS room.

I was sponsored by THE Show to do photography so that breaks out a lot of my expense and makes it possible to attend CES.

Audiogon got me started on show coverage but is no longer interested. Eventually cost becomes a factor, especially if I attend most the shows offered during the year.

Munich is a more important show and far better attended than anything in the USA and I'm considering Axpona as a possibility for next year.

I have a lot of friends in the business who are abandoning CES this year. That's why THE Show cancelled, CES attendance is very low relative to exhibitor cost. Especially compared to Newport, Axpona and RMAF.

Travel into the USA by foreign buyers has become very difficult, especially for some countries. Buyers that came to CES a few years ago are now making The Munich High End Show their primary venue to meet, greet and do business.

albertporter

Owner
Back from RMAF, it was great show and in addition to seeing friends I was able to photograph all the systems and hear new software.

I really like RMAF and THE Show Newport and now that THE Show Vegas has cancelled, I'm not attending CES.

Good news for me, I just received confirmation from Kevin at Upscale Audio that my four quads of KT150 tubes are out from cryo treatment. These are supposed to be perfectly matched for the ARC Ref 250 and are shipping today.

Kevin is seldom excited about tubes but he was bubbling over these. I should have them next week, will post impressions after a few hours run in to determine how they fare against the KT120s I have now.

Also got four of Rick's Ultimate (best) AC cables. Looking promising on the ARC REF 250 which is where I began testing yesterday afternoon.

They are a very different presentation than Echole, Purist, Stealth and Stage III AC cables I've heard in my system and liked. If High Fidelity cables are anything like the others it could be weeks before they completely settle and give a true picture of what they can do.

albertporter

Owner
Heading out to RMAF tomorrow AM to do show coverage. Looking forward to attending one of my favorite venues in high end audio.

albertporter

Owner
Siddh
Regarding HFC power cord...first impressions...how does it compare to Purist?

The storm that blew through Dallas at 4:15 Thursday afternoon brought 90 MPH winds and driving rain that blew down trees, power lines and fences in our area as well as many other parts of the city.

My power, internet, land line and TV have been out since that time. Even AT&T cellular was down for two days due to nearby cell site crashing due to no power. It was a really messy storm, luckily our steel roof warded off the hits with no harm to our home.

Our power was restored this afternoon, apologies for late reply.

The HFC cord was placed on the Allnic D5000 DAC, a brand new one that I just received. The nicely broken in one is on loan to a fellow that wanted to audition. So in addition to new cable, we have new DAC. That being said the sound was excellent.

Rick will get me one or more HFC cables to try in weeks to come and I'll post more. My initial impression is both Purist 25th and HFC are very quiet and very dynamic. The rest will have to wait for better conditions and clear head to determine fine details.

albertporter

Owner
Johnp
Albert,
Thanks for having me over last night. As usual the scotch and company was excellent. Your system sounds fantastic. I'm sorry about messing with your iPad. I was enjoying the music so much I wanted to add a few more songs to the list.
I'm with you. Rick's power cable is amazing. That's why I bought one for my DAC.

No problem John, just bring a new iPad next time you visit :-).

For those that don't know John, he protects intellectual property for Texas Instruments and in spite of his intelligence, has the joy and enthusiasm of a child when he's around music.

It's a great combination and fun to have him as a visitor when we listen.

albertporter

Owner
Siddh
Hi Albert,
Do you know which model power cord Rick brought to the performance?
Thanks, Steve

I don't know the name but retail price is about $10K, so If it's not the best it must be near the top.

It's an excellent AC cable, as one would expect for that price. I hope to have more time with it, even better a pair so I can experiment.

albertporter

Owner
Charles1dad
Hello Albert,
With accumulating burn in hours and continued listening, what is your verdict on the DHT Allnic DAC and has it met your expectations?

When you have a great LP it's extraordinary and when you have a great digital recording the Allnic D-5000 is good enough that you forget about picking at it and just enjoy the music.

That's a first for me, for some reason digital and I have never connected, at least not long term and I've had several pieces that were acceptable to others that did not connect here.

I still prefer master tape and LP but some digital material also on LP sometimes surprises me with it's different strengths.

albertporter

Owner
Good Tuesday night music with several of our Dallas group in attendance. At end of night one commented that even though it was an all digital session he did not feel cheated :-).

Rich Schultz of High Fidelity Cables was here too. Great to see him again, his recent move (both home and shop) make it difficult to visit as often. Rick brought an upper end AC cable which we ran on the Allnic D-5000 DAC with excellent results.

I'm working on getting one or more of these for the DAC and maybe the preamp. Would also like to get a couple of 15A to 20A IEC adaptors so we can move them to the ARC REF 250 and see if the amp likes them.

The REF 250 continues to break in, it's getting better all the time. I mentioned this already but I have a complete set of KT-150 tubes on order and expect that to be a major benefit for the amps one they arrive and I can get them in and biased.

albertporter

Owner
Fplanner2000
Mine is an all-VAC system - hopefully you will get to hear it in a few weeks. :-)

Do you have my cell number so you can find me at RMAF?

If not, my VTL 750 ad here at Audiogon has my info (premium ad allows that).

albertporter

Owner
Lak, Jwm, Richardkrebs, Peterayer, Whart.

Thanks for the high praise, I hardly know how to respond other than a sincere "Thank you."

albertporter

Owner
Ptmconsulting
Albert - I finally got to hear the big Focals at the NY show this past weekend, driven by top of the line VAC gear. We came back from dinner Friday night and the Focal room was empty, so we got to play our own music for an hour. Huge dynamics and pure musical enjoyment.

If your setup sounds anywhere near as great as this room did then you are truly a lucky man, and a great friend to share it with your local buddies on a regular basis.

Everyone says the Focal with VAC are a super combo, I've only heard mine with big VTL and the ARC REF. They are good with both and of course completely different presentation as one would expect.

As I've stated here many times, hoping the new KT150 tubes will move the ARC even further, where I can listen for awhile and not tweak with it.

albertporter

Owner
Fplanner2000
Albert-

The Focals are now playing. WOW! Setup hopefully this week. :-) I'll try to catch you at RMAF.

Harve
Denver

I'll be walking around with my camera doing show coverage. I'm often in a hurry, afraid I'll miss someone's room before end of day Sunday.

I would love to hear what you do with the Focal, I've only heard them at shows and my home.

albertporter

Owner
Ketcham
Vanity - I too completely disagree. The point of this forum, which I appreciate whole heartedly, is to share perspective and information. Albert is not the only contributor here either. Having these discussion certainly helps me direct my resources appropriately. Through a different path, my system evolved into something very similar to his. So for me, his thread is exceedingly valuable. One mis-purchase can cost me thousands. In addition those perspectives provided here may provide awareness to something otherwise unconsidered. The vh audio plasmatron is a wonderful example. Amazing benefit for my digital system.

I appreciate your comments, not ignoring you. I would love to try the Plasmatron but currently have my plate full and have a lot of money invested in AC cords, NOS tubes and new server hardware. Just working through all of it.

I assume your attraction to the Plasmatron is in connection to the Allnic D5000 and how they work together?

Posts indicate you admire the D5000, perhaps as much as I do. This evening my wife and I used it with a couple of moves and I was lost in the sound track.

That's that's very difficult for me, I've become really jaded about digital over the years.

albertporter

Owner
Dev
Sounds_real_audio

That wasn't called for, really ridiculous! Posting and coming from someone whom owns an audio business.

Have a great day Albert!

Thanks. Hope all goes well for you.

albertporter

Owner
Thanks everyone for all the kind words. Maybe Sound_real_audio was just having a bad day when he visited.

albertporter

Owner
Sounds_real_audio
Oh the vanity thread…...
Vanity thread? It's the long evolution of my system that began when Audiogon was young.

There are countless systems that began around that time, which others would you classify as vanity threads?
haven't heard your system but not a big fan of the Focal speakers. To bright and forward
I looked at a lot of speakers, it was tough deciding on which one would be best for my need. All speakers are flawed, no perfect options.

I have very good to excellent sound and had I chosen another brand I would be doing the same thing I am doing now, working to make them better.

albertporter

Owner
Ketcham,

I have a Doctor friend with the older version, the original CAPS 1server.

He says It has lower powered atom processor but plays all PCM files without issue. But is stalled when going SACD ISO files.

It might work with DSD files if the Allnic DAC does the conversion so stress is removed. I was appreciative of the offer but at best it would only show what this version was capable of.

No on the Plasmatron. I called manufacturer about it but did not make a move. I just checked my email but no message from you yet.

albertporter

Owner
Vn101606
Anyway, it was an important improvement. I hope you find someone who can lend you one already optimized.

What did you find in the way of improvement with the ZUMA compared to optimized Mac Mini? Is it resolution, musicality or ?

Yes, I would have to have help if it took you that long. I have never operated a Windows system of any kind and this would be a long battle to move everything. I don't know that I can do it on faith since both money and time investment are so great to facilitate the change.

Again, maybe I can audition a set up like this one day and realize it's worth the effort.

albertporter

Owner
Ketcham
Albert:

Jremote app for Jriver works really well. All my apple products run my CAPS server headless. Windows 2012r2 with Audio Phil's Optimizer is necessary.

Considering the $$ I have in my unit, I wonder if a audio server would be better.

Wish there was a way for us to get together and test. I currently have two 4TB drives full of music, formatted in FAT32. A format that works with both WIn and Mac. They are not mine, have to go back to the manufacturer soon.

My storage is 12TB format OSX and has (only) Thunderbolt connection. It loads faster than any other I've had hooked up to my Mac but suspect USB 3 on Win would be equally fast.

When you say wonder if an audio server would be better, are you referring to a specific high end audio product?

albertporter

Owner
Hew
I completely understand. You spent the time and money to optimize your server and you are satisfied with the sound. Experience shows that it's best to adopt an evolutionary rather than revolutionary approach in audio.

I can't claim much experience with Apple based system but I have heard favorable comparisons between optimized CAPS severs and well regarded transports.

I use a small ultrabook to control my dual server setup but several colleagues use an Ipad with Jremote and it's excellent.
Computer audio is in it's infancy, it will evolve and change, I think for the better.

A manufacturer in the audio business that's a long time friend has several systems, both Mac and Win. He was originally telling me Win was better than Mac until JRiver came along. He claims the two sound identical now regardless if you run a tower, laptop or iMac.

albertporter

Owner
Vn101606
Hi Albert,

I had a dedicated top of the line Macmini with no programs loaded except Pure Music

I did not have good luck with Pure Music. Still own a license for it, Amara and one other but after JRiver lost interest in all else.

One can control JRiver with Jremote from the Iphone, no need for Ipad.

I have it on my phone and iPad so the answer is that's a JRiver thing and does not apply to only Win or only Apple. Good news.

One can configure JRiver to start automatically, bypassing the windows shell, this is an option at Audiophile Optimizer. I also hate Windows, but tried and put up with it for the improved sound. Of course it is entirely your choice if you want to try this or not.

I wonder if JRiver runs outside of OSX too? I admit I do not know what Audio Optimizer is, assume it's a Win thing?

As for choice to try or not, it's not that I'm unwilling, it's the hours of work and thousands of dollars to undo everything and start over for the new system to work.

albertporter

Owner
Hew
Hi Albert,

Vn101606 suggestion to set up a CAPS server with those options is a very good suggestion and will definitely repay all the aggravation. Regardless, I encourage you to make the effort to follow through on getting one to compare. The key to it will be Audiophil's Optimizer + Win Server 2012 in core mode. Audiophil has really done remarkable work in ameliorating the computer audio gremlins.

Have you owned a Mac Mini with no programs loaded, no email function and no unnecessary extras? That includes SS drive and premium AC cord as well as Atomic Labs isolation platform.

All those things help the Mac Mini, I'm getting the best sound from digital I've ever had. The Allnic D5000 is the key with it's isolated USB input helping with computer interface.

Unless we compare equal systems there is no way to know. Also, I suspect Apple will have an improved iMac before Christmas which opens up yet another option.

I hate the idea of learning Windows just to play music and not sure it would support an Apple iPad as controller, which is a requirement.

albertporter

Owner
Vn101606
Albert,
Sounds like a more practical approach to test the Zuma. There are many people here at Audiogon who have Zuma+ExternalPower+WindowsServer2012+Audiophile who could bring to your home for an audition.

Appealing offer, do wish you were near.

albertporter

Owner
Have you had the chance to listen to My Sonic Labs Signature Gold cartridge?

There is a fellow audiophile here at Audiogon who preferred the MSL Sig Gold vs. AT Supreme.

I know the listener that did that test, he has good ears and I respect his opinion. No, I have not tried the My Sonic Labs, I think that's controlled by Basis Audio so maybe next audio show I'll inquire.
I would like to suggest that at some point you try replacing the Mac mini with a CAPS ZUMA, with external power supplies, Windows server 2012 and run the Audiophile Optimizer.

I just changed over to a Data Tale 12TB Data RAID running OSX and Thunderbolt. That would have to go to accommodate the Win based CAPS ZUMA.

I would need to learn the Windows operating system (never owned one personally) in addition to doubling the investment required for a Mac Mini.

Also, the Data Tale would have to be replaced with a USB 3 type and would require me to purchase JRiver Windows license, it's separate from OSX version.

Last, I would have to reformat 12 TB on my RAID server to WIn rather than Mac OSX since it's not running FAT32.

Might be worth all that if it's a huge upgrade but if I did all that work and did not reap the improvement you got I would be mighty disappointed. Best option is one of the guys in our local audio group gets a CAPS ZUMA and we have a test off.

albertporter

Owner
09-17-14: Cipherjuris
Albert, when the Mac Mini is feeding the DX-5, the treble notes tend to be a tad harsh, which is not the case when the DX-5 is playing a CD, DVD, or other disc, which suggests to me that the likely culprit is the USB cable. Given this, is there one that you would suggest over the other? 90% of my entire system is wired with Purist, and my components are Ayre, Allnic, Lamm, Wilson and your MK 3, so any harshness is always a surprise.

The Audioquest is more treble, a bit brighter. Sounds like you would be better with Purist Ultimate USB. The good news is the Purist is less money than AQ Diamond.

Playback software programs on the Mac are audible, some are "brighter" than others. Best results so far was with JRiver and It’s very reasonably priced but a bit of a PITA to set up.

With JRiver you can ask it to upsample to Double DSD and the Allnic D-5000 can handle it. That's the smoothest and most analog in my system.

Don't forget AC cords in all this. I got big upgrades with Purist cords on my DAC and Mac Mini.

albertporter

Owner
Mapman,

I typed in Plex App and found their website. I think I understand now that this is a network of applications that allow users to collect and view all kinds of material over multiple devices.

Very interesting, I need to read more but currently I don't see how it can get higher quality from Amazon or other content providers unless it has access to superior material that does not show up on my current devices.

albertporter

Owner
Hi Albert,

Just to let you know, I have spoken with someone who has your Focals who uses Transp Ref XL jumpers throughout ALL the internal jumpers of the speaker...and they are stunned by the result. They love it.

I was about to post about bi-wire when I realized you were discussing Internal jumpers behind the door on the back of the Focal.

That makes sense, the cable there is generic Focal wire. I'll look into that with Transparent and Purist. I'll bet his advice is correct, an audible upgrade over stock.

albertporter

Owner
I guess I was asking if PLEX offered performance advantage over direct connection. The list options that provides are amazing but I don't think with my current set up I would use it.

albertporter

Owner
Thank you Mapman. My AV, music and TV are all in the same rack and I have no other systems in the house to send data to.

As you know, Amazon Prime and Netflix are accessible on any computer and although that's free and available I have never watched that way.

Do you think PLEX offers any advantage over direct connection? Does not seem it would but I have not tested.

albertporter

Owner
Cipherjuris
Thanks, Albert. My Ethernet Drobo and my Music Server Mac Mini is connected to my local hardwired network and the Mini is connected to the Ayre DX-5 via a Locus Design Nucleus USB cable (I think you had this cable, so you can probably tell me how much better the new Purist USB cable is).
Both the Purist Ultimate USB and AQ Diamond are better than Nucleus was in my system. I can loan you either or both if you want to try them.
I should be able to run a second digital cable from the Mac Mini to a D5000 and have both the D5000 and the DX-6 in the system. We will have to talk about that.
Your description of cable and connections look like that would work.

albertporter

Owner
Jfrech
Hi Albert for movies, do you find your oppo to have a better picture and sound when playing a blu ray disc than the Fire or Apple TV does on a HD movie?

Amazon Fire and Apple TV both stream from the internet and are not equal image and sound as DVD or Blu Ray.

We've watched a DVD and streamed Netflix movies on the same evening via Oppo BDP-105 making it a fair head to head comparison.

I would rate Amazon Fire TV and Oppo streamed Netflix movies about equal with AT&T U-verse or Direct TV. Both Amazon Prime and Netflix are about $80.00 a year. The Oppo plays Netflix but cannot access Amazon Prime Movies.

Amazon Fire TV accesses Amazon Prime moves and Netflix. It's faster than the Oppo and the remote is voice activated. Speak (like Apple Siri on iPhone) and the movie pops up on the screen.

albertporter

Owner
Today I ordered 16 KT-150 Tung Sol for my ARC REF. Close matching will make this a bit of a wait before they arrive.

Moved speaker wire back to 8 Ohm tap on ARC REF. This is definitely the best overall having listened to all three taps.

Software: tonight while playing Rachael Price, "The Good Hours" my friend Chris Owen ask If I knew about Lake Street Dive.

I went to YouTube and Amazon, listened to samples and ordered. Take a look and listen! Release on vinyl ships around September 24.

http://youtu.be/DnjVMMKPXmQ

albertporter

Owner
I should add, I'm also using the Oppo BDP105 as a transport for when visitors bring CDs.

Connection is via Purist Genesis Digital SPDIF (RCA) between Oppo and my Allnic D-5000 DAC. A surprisingly excellent combo for occasionally spinning CDs.

Audiophiles may be disgusted with the next comment :-)), but for movies a cheap fiber optic cable connects the Amazon Fire TV box to the Allnic D5000. For those that don't know, Amazon Fire TV is new and pretty much like Apple TV, streams movies.

This makes a nice difference, listening to moves with a good DAC for almost zero additional investment.

albertporter

Owner
Cipherjuris
Albert, I have a couple of silly questions about the Allnic D5000 DAC, but things are not totally clear to me. Does it have an on-board PS or an external PS?

On board power supply.
As for how it is connected in your system, is your Mc Mini connected directly to the D5000 by a USB cable and is the D5000 connected directly to your preamp (L3000?) and if so, is it connected by XLR or RCA?

Connection from 12TB Raid is via Thunderbolt to Mac Mini. Mac Mini to Allnic D5000 via Audioquest Diamond and/or Purist Ultimate USB (still switching and testing).

Output from Allnic D5000 to preamp has been Purist 25th Luminist XLR and Purist Dominus Luminist RCA. I prefer the XLR but uncertain with limited testing I've done how much is due to XLR versus RCA.

albertporter

Owner
The tubes are same as original, I got them from Allnic. The E810F was gold pin Mullard, the 7233 and 6465 were GE.

I'm tempted to put in the 6H30DR I borrowed from my friend Jfrech but need to let these burn in at least a few hours before I make another change.

I'm near 500 hours on REF 250 and considering a set of KT150 output tubes that I'm certain will be another upgrade.

albertporter

Owner
Reminds me of the quote from Cheers

Women! Can't live with them...pass the beer nuts (Norm).

albertporter

Owner
This morning I replaced the tubes in my Allnic L-3000, huge upgrade, much more than expected.

Mostly due to accumulation of hours to get Focal broken in but the preamp had lots of hours before that.

albertporter

Owner
Dev
Hi Albert,
Why not connect lower range of your speakers to the 4 ohm tab and mid-high to 8 ohm tab of your amplification.

I recall either it was Ken from Cat when I owned my JL3's or Kevin from Vac suggesting such.

That's an excellent idea, but my biwire are single connector at the amp and two dedicated runs to (each) speaker post.

I wish I could try that idea, would have ordered two sets of separate cables if I had known in advance about that option.

I've been listening to SACD all day on my Mac Mini via Allnic D5000. Some material is excellent and some disappointing, like all formats can be :-).

albertporter

Owner
Fplanner2000
No Problem. I just want to GET them first!! Should be 2-3 weeks w/various necessary delays inherent with moving something big a fair distance around the world. :-)

Be prepared upon arrival, they are extremely heavy.

I had four professional piano movers in addition to myself to get mine safely moved. I kept mine in original crates until they were a few feet from final position.

No matter what these guys say or what training they have, it's better to guard against fingers through cones and scratched finish moving them bare.

The instructions Focal provides are excellent so you understand what's necessary to safely unpack. There is a special section on the beryllium tweeter since it presents some health risk and is very fragile.

If you don't have the original instructions I have them as PDF and can send via email.

albertporter

Owner
Fplanner2000
Albert-
Any idea why the 4 ohm tap would sound better? You've got me curious since my amps have 4, 6 and 8 ohm taps.

I think Ct0517 offers a good response.

There was a review of the Focal Grande EM in Hi Fi News that included a lab report. In that section they measured 2.9 ohms at 90 Hz and also Equivalent Peak Dissipation Resistance which takes into account phase angle. With that included estimate impedance was 1.9 Ohms at 215 Hz.

I think this is like many speakers with spots that are high and low, seldom is a speaker truly flat impedance from bottom to top.

The reviewer stated the Focal Grande EM was relatively amplifier friendly. In any case those numbers are what prompted me to try the 4 Ohm tap and it's working well.

When I try the 8 Ohm tap a week or so from now I may reverse myself. I try to eliminate choosing "different" as "better" and that often requires trying two or more times. I suspect some frequencies are better at 8 ohm and some frequencies better controlled at the 4 Ohm tap.

If you test4 versus 8 with your amps, I would appreciate your report.

albertporter

Owner
Lloydelee21
Yes, Albert...your advice on bi-amping is exactly what I have been advised. I am hoping to investigate soon.

My guess is you will get similar results regardless of cable brand but each has their own personality.

On similar topic, while listening today I moved biwire to 4 ohm tap rather than 8 ohm I've used since I bought the ARC REF.

My first impression is this is 4 ohm is a better match for Focal. That said, I'm going to move back to 8 ohm in week or so and listen again.

albertporter

Owner
Thesaint519
Killer system.

Thank You ! The Lamm amps and pre in your system are excellent as well. Lamm is typically resolute and provides detail and textures without ever being analytical. Likely a match made in heaven with the Wilson Sasha.

Thesaint519
Albert,

You having company? Is it an open invitation?

If you live in this area you're welcome to join us for our usual Tuesday night music session. If you are visiting DFW area, contact me and we'll arrange a time to get together.

albertporter

Owner
Arthursmuck
We'll try to get by soon Albert, been very busy lately but want to hear your new goodies.

You are always welcome, lots of changes since you were here last.

albertporter

Owner
C2300mc275
Hi Albert,

Lovely system - have been enjoying following your journey with the Utopias. I own the Maestro Utopias myself, which is also fantastic but a seriously challenging load - I think the field coils of the Stella and Grande assist with the load compared to my Maestros. Anyway, my Krell 750mcx's have enough grunt to dictate to them :)

Thank you! The EM drive is a big help but since this is the only Focal I've ever owned I can't draw comparison. The ARC amps have a power meter and it hardly deflects, even on the loudest passages. The Focal Grande seem to be no issue for the two tube amps I've run them with.

Anyway - I am looking for a tube line stage and considering various options. I am thinking of trying out the Allnic L1500 (more my budget) and L3000 - bit of stretch. Just wondering whether you had heard the L1500 first and also whether you could tell me about the sound of you L3000 albeit difficult to isolate its qualities from the whole system as it were.

Thanks, Bill
I have not had the L1500 in my system, only the L3000 and L5000. I love the L3000 but admit I have a L5000 on order to audition.

When I bought the L3000 we had a lot of preamps here. Aesthetix, ARC, Messenger, Ypsilon, VTL, Einstein and Allnic. With most of my regular audio members in attendance the vote came down to Allnic and Ypsilon, very different from each other and both offering excellent sound.

You can look me up and call if you wish. I can possibly loan you a L3000. That could help you decide if sound is right for you.

albertporter

Owner
Ketcham
www.empiricalaudio

I like this paper on bi-wiring speakers. Seems to add objective information to the conversation

That's good reading. Appears there is good reason for bi-wire.

In my system bi-wire was absolutely higher performance, I compared one run of speaker cable versus two runs and biwire was easily audible and superior.

One would think a single run would be enough, each speaker cable was 8 gauge, so comparison was single 8 gauge versus twin 8 gauge.

albertporter

Owner
Lloydelee21
Hi Albert,

I would not be surprised if your solution is better. The question is...would you bi-amp? As in add a stereo amp so you can drive upper/mids separately from bass? Does Focal give any guidance on this point? Presumably, with 2 sets of binding posts, they have allowed for this option?

Lloyd, yes the Focal has two sets of binding posts and they ship with WBT straps so only one set of speaker cables required. Removing the jumper you have choice of bi-amp and biwire. I did not try bi-amp, jumped directly to biwire since my VTL 750 and the ARC REF 250 would each have more than sufficient power.

I thought about two ARC REF 75 and running each of those stereo amps into the two Focal binding posts. The issue with bi-amp is all four amps should be identical in every way so each section of the speaker is receiving identical information.

albertporter

Owner
Albert-
I live in Denver about 15 minutes from RMAF. Hopefully I will have the Focals up and running by then. I should have them in a few weeks. Just got my VAC Statement line stage installed today. Wow!

IF you get the chance, I'd value your opinion of what I've managed to put together at home. Maybe we can coordinate something as we get closer to the event. Thanks.

I would love to hear that system, VAC was on my list when I bought the Audio Research. Look me up on the web, albertporter photo and we can coordinate times.

albertporter

Owner
Lloydelee21
Hi Albert,

Well, I think you've certainly confirmed that there is more to be driven out of this speaker...bi-wire, reference jumper wire or otherwise...;) somehow I knew you'd know that...;)

There is always more, it never ends :-).

I do appreciate the jumper suggestion, hope the biwire solution I choose is equal or better since it was the more expensive option.

albertporter

Owner
Jwm
Is Romey the Cat a nice person who can actually appreciate good music? He was a motor mouth in the day.

Here's "Romeo the Cat" Art is referring to (from Art's system page here at Audigon).

http://cgim.audiogon.com/i/vs/s/f/1309967316.jpg

albertporter

Owner
Arthursmuck
Thanks Albert, it's been too long since I've been over. Romey cat sends his best and says we'll try and make it someday soon.

You are welcome to bring the fur ball if you're serious. I'm one of those people that love all animals and dogs and cats are certainly no exception.

If you do another get together at your place I know Romeo the kitty will be in attendance. Come some Tuesday and hear the new gear, all days are good except upcoming RMAF which I always attend.

albertporter

Owner
Jwm
Albert nice talking to you today. I enjoyed the conversation. Lets stay in touch. I wish we lived closer to share music. The worst is usually the first 24 hours after that your wife will be as good as new. The best Jeff

Jeff, thank you. For those not aware my wife had dental surgery and Jeff having been a dentist was offering advice. Where else but Audiogon could you carry on a conversation about your spouse heath and audio at the same time :-).

Jeff, yes I wish we lived closer together as well. Seems our opinions are very similar on a number of audio pieces.

albertporter

Owner
Hello Art, good to hear from you.

You're welcome to come listen to the new Allnic DAC. I'm transferring the last of the files today, there's 8TB of music to choose from.

albertporter

Owner
Have you tried TA Ref XL jumpers with your Focals? I just spoke with a Focal dealer who loves them on their flagships in store.

I have not, in fact I opted for bi-wire and no jumper. I can't imagine that any jumper would be as effective as four speaker cables direct to amp.

I leaned this because I told them I discovered that ADDING 2 of them to my Wilson X1s 1/4" thick copper plate which connects 2 binding posts....has been a wonderful experience. Far more nuanced micro dynamics, and much more articulate bass that now feels as nuanced micro dynamically as the uppers and mids.

That's quite a commendation for the TA Ref XL jumper. Would be interesting to compare to true bi-wire and hear what each bring to the performance.

albertporter

Owner
And hearing the system with the new arc amps. I know they are still breaking in...but you're already getting better sound. Especially the speed and resolution!

That is the big change with the ARC, plus new Purist 25th Anniversary Luminist has improved signal to noise 3 DB (at phono level) and sounds like even more. Luminist also adds resolution and speed plus bass impact. This along with the ARC is a winning combination playing to each others strengths.

ARC will need another 300 hours and since the Luminist Purist are only 72 hours in the system it has a long way to go as well.

That being said I think the sound is in many ways the best I've ever had and resolution plus warmth as good as I've ever heard.

Usually a system delivers one or the other, high resolution that's threadbare or shrill. Or warmth with enough smear and loss that it keeps all the detail from shining through.

It's a very narrow path, I'm going to have to be very careful with equipment and tuning from this point on.

On another note, I just received a four bay DataTale Thunderbolt housing and three Hitachi 4TB NAS drives. I've already formatted the drives and my Mac is working on moving over all the old and new files.

This new drive will have an additional 2TB of ISO type DSD files that will have to be accessed as disc images via JRiver in order to show cover art. I can hardly wait to hear how they sound, hopefully a bit closer to analog :-).

albertporter

Owner
They offered a refund, we shall see. Thanks in advance for the opportunity to try the tubes you have.

albertporter

Owner
Hello John, Looking forward to your visit.

The 6H30 tubes I thought I had a handle on turned out to be a misrepresentation. Would like to try the genuine ones you got from BAT.

albertporter

Owner
System edited: Thursday I replaced every cable in the system with the new Purist Luminist revision interconnects, speaker cable and AC. Images and description added, text corrected.

albertporter

Owner
Good for you, several thousand hours is hard to come by, takes at least a couple of years of playing every day. You will be rewarded with almost instant gratification once they are in place.

I assume you will run the Focal with your VAC Statement? I love the tonal balance of those amps, plus they are easy to tweak with a few tube swaps if need.

albertporter

Owner
I look forward to reading your journey with the big Focal. I'll keep an eye on your thread.

I know I hammer on this all the time, but don't judge the speakers unless they are completely broken in. I have a written log of what mine did from day one through 2300 + hours.

Try to get an hour estimate from the previous owner. Hopefully they have some serious hours on them.

albertporter

Owner
Fplanner2000
Albert-
Do you by any chance remember the bolt size and/or Stillpoints part number to connect the Ultra 5's to the bottoms of Utopias?

I believe Stillpoints refers to them as M14-2.0 to 1/4-20 Adapters.

I put a drop of Locktite 242 blue (removable with effort) on the 1/4-20 thread of each adaptor before securing into the Stillpoints, then I sprayed light lube on the M14 threads before threading into the base of the Focal.

This is a very smooth set up, no problems adjusting even with all that weight and so far the Ultra 5 stays on the adaptor where it belongs.

Are you purchasing Focal Utopia or just helping someone?

albertporter

Owner
Jwm
Albert I'm going to send you the Tungsol 6550 this week. Jeff

If you can use it please keep it. I feel bad about taking it and anyway, I need two for the amps and locating a perfect mate for it could prove difficult.

Thanks for the offer either way.

albertporter

Owner
Lloydelee21
Wow impressive responsiveness from PAD. Great stuff, Albert. Look forward to reading more about this. Does this mod make any improvements for other non-ARC equipment by any chance?

The mod is not an improvement for other than ARC, in fact may be performance loss hooked up to other power supply designs.

The good news, Purist will switch the Limited or 25th AC from either network to the other and cost is reasonable.

I want to say this is not a problem with ARC or Purist, just an interface issue. ARC did an engineering marvel with this power supply just as Purist did with their unique network. Now they are happy together :-) or so the test equipment shows.

My 25th arrive at Purist tomorrow and I'll have for the weekend for a listen. I'll try to remember to post impressions.

albertporter

Owner
I will be rolling in same order ... spoke to 2 ARC Anniversary Pre owners and they actually prefer stock Sovtek 6H30 over NOS 6H30-DR so will be interested in your results.

Would be nice if that turns out the case for me. The NOS 6H30 DR are expensive and hard to come by.
Only filter network PCs? Any more known compatibility issues?
So far only the Purist but the Audio Research guys designed the power supply so effectively it literally works out of the box with the stock cord. I've never had that happen in all the years I've been in audio.

These (no network) Purist AC cords I'm borrowing are definitely better than the stock ARC and Purist has modified the network in both Limited and 25th for best performance with Audio Research.

These will be different than all other Limited and 25th AC and will be marked as such.

On another topic, a guy is bringing a VPI table and arm for me to set up on Tuesday. I'm looking forward to working with it and maybe put in the system for a spin.

albertporter

Owner
Ketcham,

There certainly are many fans of the L5000 DHT. I own the H5000 DHT and think it's the finest phono stage ever built. I don't usually make those statement (IMO) it's true.

I'll eventually get another L5000 for audition and when I do I'll report.

albertporter

Owner
Testing complete with AC cables and I found an important issue with ARC power supply concerning interface with AC cables.

Any cable with filter network has potential to cause an audible issue (depending on listener and system).

This has been for a couple of years, appears I'm the first to discover it after purchasing the Audio Research a couple of weeks ago.

The circuit in the ARC REF amp and (some) REF preamps are tuned for the stock cable and Purist Limited and 25th Anniversary AC cables filter network box conflict with the internal network.

This causing ringing in extreme high frequencies. If you look at my post 8-20-2012 (above) I mention borrowing Purist cables without filter network. This was due to my hearing this issue a few days before that post.

Since then Purist had Audio Research overnight to them for testing and confirmed what I heard. There is ringing at 20K and sub harmonics of that were audible in my system although never reported before by anyone.

New mods to these power cords have already been implemented and tested. My cable goes back Monday for the change and I'll report findings next week.

Purist will send a bulletin to dealers soon with instructions.

albertporter

Owner
Love how I must give my SSN to allow the package to pass customs even when duty and (not applicable in this case) taxes were covered by a third party.

Are you in the USA? Is this where we are now with security and import goods?

can I run the dac 24/7 for a week (break in) or do the tubes require rest?

No rest required but since I'm breaking in the new amps I've been turning the DAC and preamp on only when amps are producing music.

The D5000 Allnic DAC does not change as drastically as the preamp in my opinion. Looking forward to your report on same.

albertporter

Owner
Ketcham
Albert.

I certainly would love pointers on how to become the audiophile that does not pay retail. ;)
I suspect many (most?) of the product here at Audiogon shown at list price are available via an offer for less money.

It's not being promoted, but Purist is giving 50% discount with trade in of their own (previous version) cables. I think Transparent and some others have offered similar trade programs in the past.
What is your thoughts on balanced power, like the equi-tech transformer for your dedicated line?
That's one of those impossible to audition things. If you don't have it or choose another way you're unlikely to move to Equi-Tech for comparison. If you choose Equi-Tech it's difficult to remove and go with another system.

Babybear (Audiogon member) has a whole system approach using Controlled Power

If I move into any type of conditioning this would be my choice. I did not hear Arnie's system before he installed but the after certainly is a superb system.

I would be interested in your thoughts of what you did and why.
It's simple, lots of copper and unlimited power for each component via multiple dedicated line. You cannot go wrong with that approach even if later you decide to add some extra power conditioning.

I've been promoting this as the #1 thing to do for your system since I signed on with Audiogon in 1999. It's cheaper than one premium power cord and is typically a HUGE upgrade.

Last, there are two schools of thought on conditioning and several high end manufacturers say no conditioning is best. The exception is if you live with some horrible power issue where conditioning is preferable to the existing problem. I don't know how a person is supposed to know which category their power is in, that's one of the things that make this a complex issue to answer.

albertporter

Owner
Lloydelee21
Hi Albert,

About the prototype cable, is this a prototype for their new flagship powercable? If so, what is the new tech that allows them to remove the network (after introducing the network into the Ltd and then the 25th Anniversary only a few years ago)? Curious!

No, this is not a replacement for 25th Anniversary.

It might even get a network box later on, it's not a finished product, came from Purist lab. I'm trying to figure out reactions of the ARC power supply and this cable could help.

albertporter

Owner
I found NOS 6H30 DR. They were way outside the country so I'm waiting for shipment to arrive. Supposedly 1979 version.

Hoping they are genuine, they look to be in the photos. I can tell once they are in hand.

Jfrech has good experience with this tube in BAT equipment. I trust him and he says these old ones are far better than current.

albertporter

Owner
C1ferrari
Hi Albert,
I was unaware the Ref 250 employs 6H30's.

Tube compliment single amplifier:
(2) 6H30 Gain stage V7 and Regulator Drive V10

(3) match pair KT120 (or KT150) Power output V1~V10

(1) match pair KT120 Driver V8~V9

(1) 6550 as Regulator V11.

I plan on replacing the 6H30 first, experimenting with Wing C, my favorite 6550 for Regulator and replacing the KT120 with new KT150.

The only position I'm unsure about is V8~V9. Unknown if KT150 can sub for KT120 there or even if there is any improvement possible for that position.

albertporter

Owner
Ketcham
Purist Audio Design 25th Anniversary AC ($9900.00)

Albert. Was this the cost for one cable or five?
That's retail for one AC cable. I've been friends with Jim since 1986. Meaning no, I did not pay retail :-), nor do most audiophiles.

Love to hear what you have done to your ac power from the main power line to your house and then your system.
If I ever am in Texas, I would love to hear your system that has evolved well over a decade.

You're certainly welcome to visit, I hope the system is behaving when you do. Like all works in progress there are days when you say "It's perfect" and days you want to pull the plug on all of it.

As for power, it's very involved but I'll try to keep short.

Commercial three phase copper drop to my residence using triple double zero cable into Milbank transocket meter (Commercial pass through meter).

transocket described

Inside our home, within 15 feet of the system is:

(2) 100 amp panels plus (1) 50 amp panel, all are Square D commercial copper buss with torque in breakers.

14 dedicated runs to stereo system. A dozen are 12 gauge Romex, two are 240 V 8 gauge (for European gear).

All outlets Porter Ports (of course). The 240 is a 30 Amp twist lock cryo treated Hubbell commercial unplated male + female.

Since I'm the only resident with 240 three phase I have my own transformer, about two houses away in the alley.

Feel free to ask if you want additional details.

albertporter

Owner
Lloydelee21
Look forward to hearing more about how the 25th work with the ARC amps...should be great.

I have two new prototype (non filter) AC cables on the way from Purist that will be here tomorrow. I'll post test results once complete.

The new Luminist 25th AC is a clear improvement with both the Allnic DAC and H5000 phono stage. I don't have enough of the new design to try in other places in they system.

Should be about a week away for the remainder, they are on order.

albertporter

Owner
I received two Purist 25th Anniversary Luminist AC for ARC REF amps, breaking them in now.

Also, ordered (4) NOS 6H30 DR tubes for the REF 250. These are pre 1980 that everyone claims is the best sound.

albertporter

Owner
Agear
A Mac mini straight in with a cheap Belkin USB cable is noticeably inferior to going SPDIF through a cheap converter (Teralink). I am still actively pondering transports....

I have not tried anything other than USB and the cables mentioned. I'm getting the best results I've had with digital but will search for Teralink and see what that's about.

As for transport, I'm using Oppo BDP-105 via SPDIF. CD is good to excellent this way and the Allnic is able to upsample to double DSD, same as Mac Mini via JRiver.

Last Sunday was the final day for pre release discount of new JRiver 20 for Mac. Likely in a couple of weeks this new version will be available for download.

albertporter

Owner
I should add. At one time Computer Audiophile reported that the Oxford chip sets were the best choice when choosing an outboard storage bay. My current twin bay Oyen Digital FireWire uses that set.

Oyen Oxford

I don't think any of the new Thunderbolt housings have Oxford chips nor do I know if Computer Audiophile has changed their opinion about value of same.

I'll bet there are no specialty aftermarket Thunderbolt cables, one would never know if an alternate design might have helped.

albertporter

Owner
Albert, is your music server cannister a RAID Thunderbolt system with HDD or SSD? How many drives?

Mine is a DataTale 2 bay FireWire 800 fitted with two 4TB Hitachi Desk Star drives. The FireWire cable between this and Mac Mini is absolutely audible, the best I've heard is Audioquest Diamond FireWire.

I intend to order another Purist Ultimate (I currently only have one) and see what that does in place of the FireWire connection.

I have a Drobo 5-bay with 5 1 terabyte HDDs connected via Cat 5 Ethernet to my dedicated Mac Mini music server in turn connected to my Ayre DX-5 via USB. What are your thoughts about performance enhancement by replacing my existing Locus Design Nucleus USB cable with the Purist Ultimate USB cable?

I had the Locus Design Nucleus USB, "Most Beautiful" brand USB, Purist Audio regular USB, Purist Audio Ultimate USB and Audioquest Diamond USB.

I prefer the Purist Ultimate over all others. It's tonal balance is the most natural and musical. All these cables seem to be equally quiet and dynamic.

The Oyen Digital people have a new four bay RAID Thunderbolt that would work perfect with my Mac Mini. Switching to it would allow 16TB of storage by just adding two additional Hitachi 4TB drives.

Here's the webpage at Oyen

.

albertporter

Owner
Ketcham,

Do you find the USB cable plays a significant role with the D5000? Wonder if the galvanic isolation eliminates this or drastically reduces it.

Wow, what a great idea. I did not think about testing that with all that's going on with the system. Previously with Ayre and even the Oppo there were differences in sound with every USB I tried. I had a generic Apple cable, one from Monoprice, two from Purist Audio and one from Audioquest (the Diamond).

I love the Audioquest FireWire cable, much better than anything else I have but for USB, best sound was the Purist Ultimate USB.

I'll go back and test again, maybe the galvanic isolation "fixes" a problem that negates the results.

Note: Audioquest FireWire cable is a run between my DataTale music storage cannister and the Mac Mini. Should not matter but the Audioquest Diamond FireWire kills everything in that position.

albertporter

Owner
Much like the Focals, Stahl~Tek seems to be a Ferrari that requires the end user to do his due diligence.....

For me, digital is the most tweaky of all. Change a single setting in JRiver or the brand of USB or FireWire cable and it drastically alters playback quality and musicality.

I will say the gap between digital and analog has been narrowed these past few years. Digital has gotten so good you can actually sit down and enjoy without continuously thinking about hardware rather than music.

I would love to hear the latest and greatest Lampi, seems from comments I've read it's exactly what I want from digital. Would love to compare with the Allnic DHT DAC.

albertporter

Owner
Agear

Nope. That is feedback from an audio buddy who owned it along with multiple other megabuck digital pieces. It had incredible dynamism and bandwidth but ultimately lacked musicality (in his system).

He also has a SOTA vinyl rig as a frame of reference and that remains his favorite. If you follow Audioexotics and the audiophile community in the far east, you would know that the Stahl~Tek is no longer the shizzle (not that that means anything).

I was aware of the big following at Audioexotics, in fact that was about the time I heard the Stahl~Tek the first time when it was so remarkable.
It was transport and DAC and we played CD. A year or so later I had it again, along with it's interface box called the ABC and accompanying Win machine and files.

That experience was very disappointing, nothing like the first time with the transport. Later I was told the interface between ABC and Stahl~Tek was not correct.

So, how would you compare the Stahl~Tek to the Allnic? Are you saying they are more similar than not?

The good experience with the Stahl~Tek was several years ago, when I had the Dali Megaline, even before I added the JL Audio Subs. Everything has been upgraded since then so trying to compare is impossible. I can only talk about those two positive experiences, both rare since I've never had any other occasion where digital did anything for me emotionally.

albertporter

Owner
loydelee21
Hi Albert, From Audioshark.org:

"The D5000 is very unique in today’s DAC world because most of its components are not from any routine audio market source except the DAC chips. The USB interface, SPDIF receiver and high end upsamplers are all specifically customized for this application. D5000 uses very unique technologies for audio signal processing. The clock does not directly connect to the DAC chip. Instead, the audio processor uses clock alignment algorithms that determine exact alignment for the DAC chip in a real-time manner. The ES9018K2M SABRE 32 Reference DAC chip is a high performance 32-bit, 2-channel audio D/A converter with sampling to 32/384 kHz, 128 DSD and uses a 1.5 MHz upsampler through a field-programmable gate array USB interface.

While most ES9018K based DACs use the dac chip for audio processing, the D5000 has a proprietary internal processor that performs real time PCM upsampling or upsampling and conversion to DSD. The SABRE Reference DAC chip only performs the digital to analog conversion."

Thank you, that's an excellent explanation of the DAC.

albertporter

Owner
I spoke to Kevin at Upscale this afternoon and sent him a link to this thread. He said he would post here and explain testing power tubes so they bias tightly.

Hope that happens, my experience is he is always super busy.

albertporter

Owner
Lloydelee21
Hi Albert,

Thanks...actually what I was asking about are the DAC chips themselves, not the design. Does Allnic use the ESS Sabre 9018 DAC chip? I think Stahl-Tek is also SD, and I was wondering if they happen to use the same ESS chip, (which Gryphon also uses).

The Allnic D5000 is so new there are no tech specs or even an owners manual. I'll ask KS next time we speak.

albertporter

Owner
Lloydelee21
Do the Allnic and the Stahl-Tek use similar chips?

No, the designs are completely different. The Stahl~Tek is solid state design with a completely over the top power supply, so large it could easily support a class A power amplifier.

The Allnic is Nickel core transformers, no caps in the signal path, DHT custom design tube circuits and custom DAC and USB isolation via Waversa.

Waversa is a South Korean company who's digital designer is Junho (Collin) Shin. Most of the Allnic D5000 DAC components are custom designed for this application.

albertporter

Owner
Pbnaudio
Albert,

Quick question if you don't mind, on your SP10 is the Copper platter glued on the sub platter or is it removable ?

Hello Peter, the SP10 MK3 is copper platter sandwiched to under assembly made of aluminum.

The underside of one of my MK3s is apart right now, having been upgraded by Richard Krebs and no plinth yet :-).

The factory drilled a balance hole which allows a peek inside the layers. It appears the aluminum is approx. 4MM thick before reaching copper. No sign of adhesive or other layers.

There are four screws on the MK3 copper platter top that go through to the assembly below, perhaps only to the aluminum or perhaps connects via motor rotor.

So far I've not disassembled a MK3 platter. I'm sure it's possible but would likely require keeping track of exact position of every part, otherwise the original Matsushita balance and calibration could be changed. Being an engineer you would be aware of this but some people may not.

albertporter

Owner
Have you guys (Bifwynne & Albertporter) straightened out Kevin yet? I want to order KT150s for my Ref 250.
Knghifi

I have not contacted Kevin on that. Whoever speaks with him should clarify the bias issue, I don't know if that's a factor of transconductance or something that shows in curve trace.

I expect ARC to have tubes sometime soon, hopefully before I can get my REFs 600 hours break in. I'll buy from them if I can afford the difference.

On topic but not mentioned here. The crisis with Russia and Ukraine could escalate to where the USA blocks all imports from Russia. When and if that happens none of these tubes will be available other than current stocks within the USA.

I hope that does not happen but it worries the heck out of me.

albertporter

Owner
That's a little schizophrenic since the Stahl-Tek is a polar opposite from what I understand a good DHT output dac to sound like. The Lampizator L7 is the most analog digital I have heard to date. The best dac I had heard prior to this was the Light Harmonic DaVinci (although that was in a show setting....)
Agear

Polar opposite? Have you heard one in your system? I had the Stahl~Tek here on two occasions and guys in my group including Jfrech (Audiogon member) were equally surprised at the quality.

I would love to hear the Lampy 7 but at this moment the Allnic D5000 is the best I've heard. Maybe I'll get the opportunity to test.

albertporter

Owner
System edited: Added image of Atomic Labs Mac Mini Platform. Nice upgrade, well worth the effort.

albertporter

Owner
Mapman
Hi Albert,
Any observations at this point about how the Focal sound might be different than what you had prior and if/how that might be a factor in driving other changes since?

The Focal showed off their capability the first day. The problem was the resolution was so high you could hear every driver and the two cabinets all separately.

I think not only the wire and drivers, but silver capacitors require a lot of break in time before everything syncs up.

This past few months of tweaking and addition of the Audio Research REF they sound absolutely like music, there are no longer speakers in the room. Sometimes you see the cabinets and wonder why they are there. The music takes on a completely different personality, the personality of the recording, the space and the performance.

Yes this was a major reset, took forever to get everything back where it was. I had to reevaluate some of my equipment and the overall design and efficiency of the Focal turned out to be a bigger blessing than I imagined. I was able to reduce my expensive cables and amplifiers by half and no longer needed the twin subwoofers.

Often, changing speakers triggers a chain of other changes in order to get things "just right" again.
Absolutely, and what's worse it the better the system gets the easier it is to go wrong.

I've been 15 months with my Focal and I'm just now getting the performance I knew they were capable of. When I bought them Focal was amused (in a positive way) when I told them I had a year long plan to break in and get them correct in my space.

Focal speakers always impress me as very clean and transparent. Plus the scale of yours, including the field coil drivers, could really push the bar quite high.
Mapman

There are a number of really superb speakers and the ones that immediately come to mind all do justice to music superbly in one way or another.

None, including mine are perfect but each has some magic. The idea is play to the strength of what you have and reduce the errors so you listen without thinking about the gear.

For me that takes forever, I get overwhelmed with the variables so I just enjoy the music while I work to resolve issues.

albertporter

Owner
Charles1dad
Hi Albert,
Your comments regarding the Allnic DAC are very telling given your deep entrenchment in the analog medium. I believe that DHT tubes are inherently special and expose the natural beauty and soul of music with proper implementation. Mr Park is obviously aware of their qualities and successfully utilizes these tubes.

I also have the DHT phono and it's absolutely remarkable. It has the ability to reproduce ultra wide bandwidth and superb resolution without sacrificing musicality. That design philosophy and signature sound is very much reflected in the new Allnic D5000 DAC.

I also have DHTs in my amplifier and preamplifier and wouldn't think of replacing these components.
Charles

You're in good company, many folks are drawn to the magic and musicality of DHT.

albertporter

Owner
Lloydelee21
.. Regarding tubed equipment, I found that the tonal quality shifted every so slightly, but enough that I spent hours and hours trying to recapture the clarity of the Ultra 5s with the tonal balance I prefer. Eventually, I found that adding HRS nimbus/couplers on top of the Ultra 5s...and THEN placing them under the equipment gave me all the clarity of the Ultra 5s and the tonal balance I was fighting to maintain in my system.

Very interesting, I would have never thought of that combination.

Way back in the late 1970s when pointy feet were just coming of age, The Mod Squad (Steve McCormack) had two products for isolation.

"Tip Toes" which were pointy aluminum cones and "Soft Shoes" which were a joint development between Steve and EAR (the elastomer company).

They marketed the two together as "The Odd Couple" where the aluminum cone fit within the "Soft Shoe." Results were completely different than either product by itself.

Your solution appears to be a modern day version, probably deserves a listen. Maybe once thing get settled where I don't confuse results I'll try to put those together for a listen.

Really glad to read about your experiences on these here, since your experience is amongst the most extensive I have read about, and thus your positive comments are great corroboration for those of us who really like Stillpoints but may not have had as much exposure as you with other isolation.

Thank you, I'm pleased if it's helpful.

albertporter

Owner
Should state also, the Mac Mini platform designed and built by Atomic Labs arrived today, in record time. I just ordered it and it's here already!

The workmanship is splendid and looks every bit worth the $350.00 price tag. Today was a crazy day, the first in weeks that I did not turn the system on at 7:30 AM and run all day. Because the system was cold I did not insert the Atomic Labs platform.

Tomorrow plan is to return to break in for ARC and with that, placing the platform under the Mac Mini and see what improvement it brings later in the day.

albertporter

Owner

Ketcham
Albert,
Can you elaborate about your approach regarding isolation, Stillpoints et. al. ?
Thanks,
John.

Stillpoints are a powerful tool but in my system they do not work equally in every application. The VTL 750 amps were a startling improvement over Sound Anchor, Grand Prix and even Stillpoints stands. Screwing directly into the VTL chassis with 1/4-20 stainless screws and threading into the Stillpoints Ultra SS was the winner. Later I tried the Stillpoints Ultra 5s and that was even better.

Today I received the Stillpoints adaptors that allow the Ultra 5s to thread directly into my new ARC REF 250. I know this will be an improvement over sitting on stock footers but it could be some time before I experiment with other options due to break in, cable swaps and other factors.

I also got terrific results with Stillpoints Ultra 5s under my Focal speakers and MK3 turntable. The upgrade on the turntable was a bit surprising since it was already sitting on a Vibraplane.

I still have quite a few Stillpoints Ultra SS around here but every place they worked their magic, the Ultra 5 was better still.

I have not tried either Stillpoints under the Allnic DAC but the Allnic DHT phono and line stage did not respond well to Stillpoints, at least in my system.

The Studer A810 and MK3 turntable power supply sit on a Vibraplane and neither benefited from Stillpoints.

This is one of those things that each listener must test for themselves. Final outcome is dependant on many factors. I think when Stillpoints work the outcome is so startling it's not necessary to think about what's right. It's immediate and very positive.

albertporter

Owner
Agear
Albert, do you have any sonic updates on the Allnic dac?

Last night several of my group members came for music and again, we listened to digital for more than half the night. This has never happened, I have a deep prejudice against digital because it never delivered on it's promise. (Perfect sound NEVER rather than perfect sound forever).

My analog system can still beat it on most material but I'm so in love with the Allnic D5000 DAC I'm still in shock. I never thought digital would come through for me. Always too much money, too low performance or both.

I honestly wonder if there is any DAC out there as good, even for more money. As I've stated before, the Stahl~Tek drive and DAC combo for $73,000.00 was the only other time I had a DAC here that excited me. As of last night I'm not sure the Allnic is not better and for a fraction of that price.

I had three members of my group email me today saying sound was the best they had heard so it's not just me, some of these guys have been coming for decades and are a tough crowd to impress.

Off that topic, I'm supposed to receive the Stillpoints adaptors today, hope to get help pulling the VTL and ARC out of the system so I can install footers.

albertporter

Owner
Thank you Ketcham.

I ordered when KS Park was visiting me a few months ago before it was ready for shipment. My first hands on experience was at the Munich High End show and that got me really excited about it. We had a turntable and arm with Air Tight Supreme (my overall favorite cart) and digital was giving it a run for the money.

Before that I never cared much for digital, uninvolving. and mechanical for the most part until I experienced the Stahl~Tek Vekian a couple of years ago. I would have purchased but the retail price of $73,000 stopped me cold.

Since then I added the Allnic H-5000 DHT phono, Focal Grande EM and a couple of weeks ago, the Audio Research REF. If anything, these changes make it a tougher battle for digital. The system and analog in general is more revealing and exciting than ever.

The Allnic D-5000 is still improving with break in and I have not yet received my Purist 25th Luminist XLR cable. In fact I'm drawn into the listening room from my office when I'm trying to work. It may sound silly but previously LP was the only format that was capable of doing that.

I will contact Chris on the Plasmatron. Making things better is my prime goal and if I improve digital a bit more it would be truly exciting since I have so much material in that format.

albertporter

Owner
Metralla,

I bought on faith, a manufacturer who's opinion I trust said I should get it. If the result is substantial I won't forget to add comments.

I'm finally getting excited about digital now that it's working well.

albertporter

Owner
I just ordered an isolation platform for my Mac Mini. It's what I use as music server. Word is this is a very audible and positive upgrade.

It's manufactured by Atomic Audio Labs, sells for about $350.00. I should have next week, I'll try to remember to post results.

albertporter

Owner

IME, even though AC line voltage varies and this is reflected when I check tube bias, the delta between the set tube and the slave tube remains the same. The issue relates to some electrical attribute of the tube that Kevin measures differently than ARC.

Maybe with that information Kevin can pair up tubes that meet that same spec.

ARC have the home town advantage when new. A substantial inventory of closely tested and matched tubes at hand that can be swapped as need before the amp is released.

At this point, my question is academic because I have another 800 hours of life left on my KT-120s and ARC hasn't sprinkled pixie dust on the KT-150 ... yet. But when the time comes, I am biased (pun) to go with Kevin because he will charge half what ARC does. Except for the bias matching question, I have never had a problem with Kevin's tubes. And I have bought a lot of tubes from him.

I've bought tubes from Kevin for years, agree he is dependable as is Andy at Vintage Tube. The ARC REF is designed to accommodate KT150 tubes, be patient I think you will get your wish.

albertporter

Owner
Bifwynne, My Ref 150 uses KT-120 tubes. I've bought matched tubes from Kevin, but there seems to be an issue when I adjust tube bias. On a more than occasional basis, there is a bias voltage delta of 8 to 10 mV between the set tube and its "slave" in an Upscale matched pair. Yeah, I fiddle around with the tubes, but there always seems to be one "guy left out."

Now, by contrast, when I buy matched tubes from ARC, the bias delta is one or two mV. And this is a consistent pattern.

I did not know about that, the only tubes I've had experience with in my new ARC REF 250 are what Audio Research provided.

I noticed with my pair it's not possible to get every tube in the "perfect" small square area of the meter but sound is extraordinary.

I suspect the small area of the ARC meter is much like biasing my VTL 750s. There is a range of numbers (bias .275 to 300) requested and still another + / - 10% allowable on the multimeter readout.

Maybe that "perfect" area on the ARC meter is like trying to land precisely in the middle of the bias numbers requested by VTL? I've chased that before and it's almost impossible as it varies by other tube bias, time of day and variations from electrical provider.

Even a tiny change of 1 or 1.5 volts from daytime to night affects VTL bias and I suspect would have a similar effect on the ARC.

albertporter

Owner
Thank you Lloydelee21

albertporter

Owner
Trai
hi albert,
this is theo rai from cape town.
glad the tube driven arc ref are matching perfectly with the grande utopia.
my 220watt VAC mono blocs sound great with my nova utopia.
i use plinius sa reference directly on the woofers and the two blend seamlessly...
Pleased to read about your success, VAC are highly respected amps, I'm sure the result is outstanding.
….are the kt 150 always interchangeable with the kt 88 and 6550 tubes and are the advantages evenly spread over the frequency spectrum

No, my understanding is the amplifier must be purposefully designed to operate with the newer design KT-150 tube. If compatible, the amp should provides superior sound plus increased reliability and life expectancy.

Confirm compatibility with VAC or whoever the amp manufacturer is before you switch.

albertporter

Owner
Lloydelee21
Hi Albert,

Yes, if you are using screws, then leave a gap. However a lot of people place the units directly on top of the Ultra 5s (ie, no screws), and I believe they were designed for this as well. (I do NOT think they were designed to be screwed in tightly).

You're correct, they are not intended to be screwed in tight. I'm friends with Stillpoints, see them at all the shows and call occasionally. The reason they manufacture the adaptors is the gap between chassis and Stillpoints top is a good way to implement.

As I posted before, I do not disagree with you that placement can be critical and better results may well be with screws out and Stillpoints put in position decided by trial and error.

I don't think we are in any disagreement, I just need time to experiment.

albertporter

Owner
Bifwynne
Albert, just checked Upscale's web site. Here's what Kevin says about the original Winged Cs:

"These have been quite possibly the best 6550C/KT88 tube type in production. But impossible to find in first-quality grade because the bulk of them were being bought by guitar-amp manufacturers. This left naughty-boy tube sellers offering "B" grade tubes which may work OK, may not, may have a shorter life, or go knows what. These tubes have been a personal favorite of Uncle Kevin for years. But the people responsible for getting them into the U.S. have been less than stellar in my opinion. So we bring them in direct from Russia. They are perfect as perfect can be."

Agreed, as mentioned in previous post the factory was still building great Wing C 6550 until the problem a few years ago. My stocks were prior to that.

I also have earlier version Gold Lion (Russian) KT88 which seem to be pretty good samples of this design. That said, I prefer the Wing C 6550 .

albertporter

Owner

Bifwynne
So Albert, if you decide to roll the Winged Cs, I recommend you ask your vendor if the tubes check out ok. I'm sure if Upscale still sells them, Kevin will properly guide you.

I'm one of the guys that hoarded Wing C 6550. Bought 150 of them a few years ago. My VTL 750s for sale here at Audiogon have a near new set of these and also thrown in, a well worn set of Wing C back up 6550.

I spoke to Kevin today after my post here at Audiogon. I have a Hickok tube tester but prefer a professional curve tracer type matching after several days of burn for my new ARC REF,

Kevin can test and supply so I'll either buy from him or borrow an Amplitrex pro tester and choose a perfect pair from my 60 or so remaining NOS Wing C stocks.

albertporter

Owner
Barrysandy
Bill Thalmann's the absolute the best. He's did a terrific job on one of my custom power amps that required about 25 hours of work. He's very fair, but much in demand.

I agree, he does my upgrade work on Technics MK3 including rebuild of power supply. Add to that, he's the sole source for Krebs Mods outside New Zealand. I've said it before but will say again, I get nothing from sending work to Bill. I'm happy there's somebody as honest as he that provides first class workmanship.

Once you get the ARC Ref 250s broken in, try the 6550 Winged Cs in the power supply. You may find you like them better than the Sovteks 6550WEs.

I was thinking that exact thing Friday while discussing the amp with one of my good sources.

The tubes in the REF 250 are tested and matched so finding someone to test my Wing C or supplying already tested will be the challenge, perhaps Kevin at Upscale Audio.

albertporter

Owner
Lloydelee21

And then when Kurt starts speaking..."this is off our first album...most people don't have it." A full-sized human being, ok, some system can do that...but the power and presence of a person? Again, only heard once before. Remarkable. It remains a test track for me, as I continue to push my system forward.

Exactly what I was referring to as well as "Lake of Fire" where the noises in the stage rear must remain separate from drums and vocal at loud levels.

On Ultra 5s, I found that for equipment, there is something for placing them underneath in odd spots, more based on the weight distribution of the equipment than symmetry. It really annoys me because it does not always look right, but eventually I got it so the 4 feet are 'reasonably' symmetrical but not at all where I originally started placing them.

thus, I wonder if screwing them into ARC 250s is better than placement underneath 'customized' for the ARC own internal weight distribution (and placement of parts that either vibrate or are sensitive to vibration).

Reasonable thought and likely correct that odd distribution may have an advantage. The problem with that method is full contact between chassis and Ultra 5 top. Stillpoints says it's important to leave a gap.

Also, the stainless steel adaptor screw into the chassis allows Stillpoints and amp (in my case) to be fastened together more solidly than just gravity contact while reducing interface size by a large volume.

Also, sometimes the footers are not equally solid on floor or stand. The stainless screws allow tiny adjustments (screw / unscrew) so you can solidify into one solid piece.

I will try both ways but to do that I'll need the adaptors. I placed an order yesterday. Once they are fastened in place I can easily unscrew one or more Ultra 5s and experiment with other locations.

Then one day, I came across a shot of the interior...sure enough, directly underneath where my Ultra 5 sits are a series of circuits which are ONLY in that odd, off-centre spot. Guess sometimes, we're not crazy when we can say we hear a difference...

I don't doubt it at all. Funny that you challenge yourself over placement and ultimately let your ears override. I had to go through that with AC cables many years ago. I kept looking at that short piece of wire and thinking about all the cable in the alley with birds perched on it and wondering WHY.

You have to experiment and challenge yourself over the results.

albertporter

Owner

Booboobaer
So how are the Focals breaking in Albert?

I think they are pretty much 100%. I have over 2000 hours on them now.

As for stand out sound, It's hard to isolate anything specific, they do music from extremely well to exceptional. After more than a year I find no errors or faults.
The other thing I notice with Utopia speakers is how well drums and piano sound.
Drums are exceptional, due not only to speed and timber but decay. You can hear behind and through the percussion.

Favorites in that category are Nirvana, "Unplugged," Fiona Apple, "Extraordinary Machine," and Horace Parlan, "Wadin'. Purposeful drum recordings such as the old 70s direct to disc M&K "Hot Stix" by Ed Graham is ridiculously real and drives like master tape.

It's not just about drum amplitude although the Grande will play obscenely loud, It's the lack of overhang or smear.

I too wish we lived closer as is the case with many other Audiogon members. I often discover new music, get a new perspective and see the face behind the comments when someone decides to pay me a visit.

On another facet, I ordered adaptors today from Stillpoints. They have a stainless 8-32 to 1/4-20 that allows Ultra 5s to thread directly into the chassis where Audio Research attaches stock footers.

This is low cost but important to performance as it allows the user to thread in and out to achieve correct contact with floor or stand while providing the tiny "gap" Stillpoints recommends between the Ultra 5 and equipment bottom.

I find small things like this add up over time and can make as positive a change as a new piece of gear. I also have two amp stands coming that I bought used. I'll comment after I have a chance to experiment.

albertporter

Owner
Thank you Dover. You're welcome to join us for music if travel ever brings you this way.

Would be nice to meet another music lover from NZ.

albertporter

Owner
Thank you Hung.

albertporter

Owner
Do you think ... or have you heard ... that ARC already blessed the KT-150 for use in the current Ref amps? Problem being they're waiting for enough KT-150s to be available?
I have no confirmation of that, only know that once ARC gets into something they go all the way. I'm just suggesting that with the shortage of KT-150 tubes the blame is on supply, not ARC.

I think we will know this year, hopefully the KT-150 will be all that I hear rumor about from folks I get data from.
I'm sure you know that there are other venders out there. For example, Upscale Audio sells the KT-150s for $92 a-pop, or thereabouts. I surmise that ARC will sell the KT-150s for close to double that amount. And that's "per tube."
Absolutely. I know and trust Kevin, good guy and one of the few I would get KT-150s from since he understands curve trace and matching.
You also mentioned that you tried the 8 and 16 ohm taps. Any reactions between the two taps? Did you find the 16 ohm tap to be a little louder and brighter as compared to the 8 ohm tap? But bass was a little thinner; maybe shelved down off the 16 ohm tap as compared to the 8 ohm tap??
Bass seemed about the same, maybe a bit less controlled at 16 Ohms so impact was looser but certainly not shelved down.

I think the ARC is so powerful and the Focal so efficient that the expected difference might take more than one test to hear.

Remember too, new Allnic DAC, new ARC with new tubes, no Stillpoints for the REF nor do I have Purist 25th Anniversary AC cords for REF since the ones on the VTL are 15A (ARC requires 20A).

Too many variables to know final outcome but there are numerous things happening that are startling and I'm encouraged by that.

albertporter

Owner
07-30-14: Johnp
Albert,
Thanks so much for having me over to listen yesterday. I have never heard digital sound better. In fact, I think the digital was better than your analog rig; blacker background and more air. The Allnic DAC, using the highest sampling rate 384K, was amazing. Everything sounded liquid and smooth with no loss of information. I think the fact that DHT tubes are used in the Allnic DAC helped create this wonderful analog sound. Congratulations!

John

Hey John,

Always good to see you, I too love this DAC.

I don't think it's better than analog but I'll admit that I have a lot of music that's digital only and this gets as close to making me happy as I've ever come.

I think the fact I've been waiting and wishing for over thirty years for digital to reach what we got last night that I'm still sort of in disbelief.

It's not perfect but on some recordings it's doing things master tape and turntable do not do. Again, that's not saying it's better but at least it offers something I've never had before.

I had the stereo on today, beginning about 7:30 AM to build hours on the Allnic DAC and ARC REF.

After lunch I played a couple of cuts by Fiona Apple and Massive Attack. I heard detail in the lyrics and definition in bass better than LP in some spots. That's a first for me, I usually grow tired of the digital haze after an hour or so and turn it all off.

albertporter

Owner
Dover
More tea, vicar ?
Internet search for "More Tea, Vicar"
"Comes from genteel 'aga saga' books about English country living. It's literally an invitation to the local churchman to refill his teacup, but there's an undercurrent of false gentility and sweet smiling with malice in the heart."

I don't know if that's your interpretation Dover, but from my perspective there is nothing false here. I enjoyed myself as did Ken, Richard and the dozen or so guys in my audio group.

This is a second time here for Richard and surprisingly in good spirits after a 24 hour flight. Far better than my energy level and attitude was after my flight to China.

I have not commented due to photo work and need to break in the new ARC REF 250 and I'm exploring my new Allnic DHT DAC.

This DAC, for the first time represents a high quality alternative to analog for which I am very grateful. Lots of great material exists only in the digital domain.

albertporter

Owner
And the Krebs upgrade…We listened to a master tape on your Studer reel to reel, with natural pace and dynamics and then played vinyl on the Technics SP-10 MK3 with the Krebs update. I heard the same ease, dynamics, rhythm and pace on the MK 3. Once again, the excellent speed stability of the MK 3 displayed itself to great effect.

The master tapes have enabled me to keep my eye on turntable upgrades and decide which are closer to the source. Not only has this eliminated several turntables but some cartridge and tonearm choices as well. I love the Technics MK3 and happy that Triplanar and Pass labs have joined me in using as their source. When something is right, it's right.

Yesterday, after Richard updated my MK 3, we listened well past midnight. Albert, sorry you had to leave when you did. After the power grid recovered from a hot day in North Texas, the sound was magical. Both Richard and I commented that there were real human beings behind the music, the ebb and flow of music sounded so natural.

Richard sent me an email suggesting the same thing. If I were not so tired and had to drive so far I would have stayed to the end. No question the Krebs upgrade helped your system. I was there long enough to hear that, even before the power settled.

albertporter

Owner
Ddriveman
Ok Albert, please let us know how good the updated Richard Krebs mods are. I hope Richard trains Bill Thalmann on the updates soon so that my new Sp10mk3 can get the updates too.

When Richard was working on my MK3 he made several comments that were a vote of confidence in Bill Thalmann's ability and honesty.

I have no doubt Bill can accomplish what Richard did for me, it's a very audible upgrade and by upgrade I mean everything it accomplished was 100% positive rather than a trade off.

That does not always happen, I am thrilled by this.

albertporter

Owner
Bifwynne
Hi Albert,

How are your Ref 250s doing? Still breaking in? Are you loving em? My Ref 150 is magical. Waiting for ARC to bless the KT-150 tubes. I understand they are transformational.

I too am waiting for KT-150 tubes. The problem is production, not ARC. I heard somewhere that ARC is the largest purchaser of tubes short of one of the guitar amp companies. An order for ARC would necessarily be huge, not only in investment but the selection process.

I wager it will be worth our wait.

Did you try the 4 ohm taps yet? You might be surprised. The sonic change is not subtle.

So far only 16 Ohms and 8 Ohms. Maybe next week. Anyway the break in process is ongoing, making testing a bit more difficult.

Not sure what your Focal's impedance curve looks like, but if it's low'ish in the bass and midrange frequencies, say 4 ohms, using the 4 ohm tap will do a better job of matching the speaker's impedance with the amp's internal impedance.

It's not I doubt the comment but rather over my head with Richard Krebs in town from New Zealand and a dozen visitors in and out Saturday when he was completing mods on my MK3 and then all of us to dinner and followed by late listening session.

We repeated all that the next day In Ft. Worth, TX with Ken McCarty. It was equally impressive in his system.

It's been a whirlwind week, I'm tired but happy. Thanks for the comments !

albertporter

Owner
Philb7777
Have a great time tonight and keep us posted on how your ARC Ref 250's evolve for you! Gonna be fun tonight I bet.

We had a wonderful night, all kinds of music and Richard Krebs commented (the next day) that he could not sleep, too excited about what he heard.

The system is indeed accomplishing levels I've never experienced.

Sometimes you do an equipment swap that "pulls a cork" out of the system. Everything you've worked hard to accomplish suddenly rushes forward.

I think the ARC REF is revealing what the Focal Grande is capable of and we're now hearing all the other upgrades as well.

if you are ever in Tulsa, please let me know ahead of time and I'll provide a good dinner and tunes for you if time permits! If I am ever in DFW with free time, hope you don't mind if I invite myself over!

Absolutely. I hope that happens. Contact me when and if.

albertporter

Owner
Richard Krebs is here. I picked him up at the airport late last night.

He is performing an update on my Technics MK3 which are newly developed mods that improve performance. While he's here my recently acquired MK3 will get the full upgrade as well.

Our music group is coming together tonight to listen, most have not heard the new ARC REF amps and none of us have heard this new mod.

Exciting stuff :-).

albertporter

Owner
This mirrors my experience. A good analogy is a multivalue 4 cylinder vs a V8 ... even at low speed, you can feel the control, torque and power of the V8.

Absolutely, that's an analogy I use myself.

albertporter

Owner

07-24-14: Bifwynne
Ok Albert next we're going to work on time and phase coherence. If your Grandes are configured like the Utopias, your tweeter and mid drivers may be wired in reverse phase as compared to the woofers.

Whatever Focal did, they did right.

I love these speakers. As for reverse wired, back a million years ago when I was tech rep for JBL commercial we had many systems that were purposefully wired that way. Testing showed it was correct for purpose intended.

Things have changed a lot and Focal is a large (and smart) company. I would not consider rewiring.

One time back in the late 1970s was positive I had everything under control and was going to "fix" a pair of Snell speakers with premium caps, proper phase and new Audioquest wiring.

I wound up begging Peter Snell to fix my screw up, bless his soul. Peter, died way too young, a brilliant engineer and very kind person.

albertporter

Owner
Jwm
Didn't Nelson Pass say the most important thing is what you do with the first watt makes sense to me.

That first watt is certainly making great music here. I just hung up the phone with ARC and the REF 250 is class A at lower power levels.

With Focal Grande efficiency and volume level I'm comfortable with I will likely be listening exclusively in class A and enjoying that famous "first watt" as well.

albertporter

Owner
07-24-14: Charles1dad
Albert,
Your speakers are 95 db sensitive and an eight ohm load. I'm not surprised that the power meter barely moves even at loud volumes. Often times you'll likely be using less than 1 watt. 95 db is more sensitive than people may appreciate.

I'm aware of that but often a larger amp will deliver bass, contrast and dynamics due to a power supply designed to provide higher rated power.

Even at lower volume it's apparent and no more so than my Dali Megalines which were 89 DB efficient. In theory, four VTL 750 were absolute overkill but in practice substituting 750 VTL with a less powerful amp (and different design) ruined the magic.

Practically speaking your big amplifiers are over kill power, but they sound fine to you and that's what matters. Congratulations!
Charles,

Thanks for congratulations, I do love these amps.

albertporter

Owner
07-23-14: Bifwynne...you might do well with the 4 ohm tap. The Ref 250's output impedance off the 4 ohm taps is lower than the 8 ohm tap. So you might have tighter and more extended bass and tighter output voltage regulation.

Thank you for that suggestion.

I have plans to do that test but ARC suggested I begin with the 8 Ohm tap, put some time on the amps and then try 4 Ohms.

Today I got down on the floor in front of the amps, switched on the REF meter to display output power and I watched as I changed program material and volume.

Even at uncomfortable levels the meters barely deflected. I also discovered ARC has a built in LCD that shows how many hours you have on the tubes ! That is so cool, and can be reset after you swap to a new set.

albertporter

Owner
Philb7777
Albert, these ARC Ref 250's are going to amaze you. One hour in and great - just wait until hour 100, 200, and 400.
ARC says 600 hours and based on my experience with cable and speaker break in I absolutely believe them. The great news is I'm enjoying them so the run in process will be painless.

until the ARC Ref 250's, never before had I experience the soundstage width and depth that it gives. Not only that, but what I call the continuity of the soundstage - not just cut out images within the stage, but everything is connected with 'real' air and harmonics.

I'm getting that now, totally agree.

albertporter

Owner
Albert,

Can you PM me photos of your D5000. I have an information summary to post on some other forums and actual photographs would be helpful.

Allnic has a new website with images. Here is a direct link to the DAC. I have not taken any photos for myself. I just got mine a couple of weeks ago,

http://allnicaudio.com/D5000

albertporter

Owner
Jwm
Albert, I don't know about you, but I always like taking the cover off new products and taking pictures. If you do I would like to see them.

We ran out of time, I did not even consider photos. Below is a link to a a nice interior view I found on line.

ARC_REF 250

albertporter

Owner
Jwm
I'm happy for you. It's a good sign when you like it right out of the box as it will only get better.

No doubt. This morning I listened again and they are amazing.

You're correct about VTL tonal balance. That's the thing that attracted me over a decade ago when I purchased my first pair. The Dali Megaline would not have been a success in my space without the VTL, I needed the warmth and bloom.

With Focal and 95 DB efficiency these ARC REF have what seems unlimited drive and headroom. Right amp for the right time and yes they are much better than the old VTL design.

albertporter

Owner
The Audio Research REF 250s arrived about 5:30 PM in good order, (thank you FedEx).

Being Tuesday night we always meet for music at my home, so the front end equipment and VTL 750 had been running all afternoon and providing great sound as always.

I was planning on a few tracks with the newest downloaded update from JRiver to see what it plus a few more hours on the Allnic DAC might bring.

However, the boxes with new ARC Ref amps finally got to us, we turned off the VTLs and unpacked the Audio Research and inspected it for any possibility of damage (bent cap leads, stressed parts and such) inserted the factory tubes decided on a spot in the floor that allowed the VTL 750 to remain where they were and hooked up the cables.

Due to the extreme care we took combined with a late start there was only an hour remaining to listen. In spite of being brand new only one hour of music, several things stood out about the ARC REF 250.

The sound stage is huge and I'm delighted by that. The soundstage depth goes on forever, love that too. Signal to noise is noticeably better, extraordinary quiet.

Toward the end of the hour bass intensity and speed came up noticeable and the high frequency resolution began to come into focus. I was not expecting anything like this level of performance gain.

I know it's silly to make a pronouncement but I'm thrilled at the possibility of these amps. Know that break in, an upgrade to KT-150s and possibly upgrading regulators and driver tubes leaves a lot of room to grow and I'm loving some things already.

Heck, it's running with the factory AC cord, the only one on hand with a 20A IEC connector and the VTL have Stillpoints Ultra 5s and the ARC is sitting on the floor.

This amp is ultra fast and precise. Reminds me of solid from that perspective but there is no question it's heart is tubes. Musical and engaging with only one hour on it.

albertporter

Owner
07-21-14: Jafox
I was cheering on the side lines for Albert to return to SoundLabs.

Jafox, that brought an instant smile to my face.

I have deepest respect for SoundLabs and all those hours of great music they delivered.

albertporter

Owner
07-20-14: Cipherjuris
Albert, I thought I saw a post from you on the Plasmatron, but today when I looked I could not find it or any reference to it in your system. Have you heard or tried the Plasmatron and if so, what do you think of it?

No, I did not post about Plasmatron, I have no opinion since I have not tried it. I visited their website, very interesting product but you never know until you listen.

albertporter

Owner
Jwm
Albert I bet you will find that the Audio Research will sound more musical, instruments will have better tonal density, and the top end will be much more refined, and the bass will be tighter and better controlled. Lets see if my prediction holds water.
Jwm (System | Threads | Answers | This Thread)

I'm hopeful you and my other sources are correct. I've used VTL for 13 years, considered other brands a hundred times but stay with what works until I'm positive a change is an upgrade, not just different.

Speakers are good example, more than a decade with Sound Lab, another ten years with the Dali Megaline and now I have Focal Grande EM and cannot imagine anything better.

Should we do the Tung Sol this early? I'll need 300-400 hours run in on the REF 250 before tube rolling. I have to set a base line of performance and that takes time.

I send my address, let me know if it got through. You can also do a Google search with my name. Usually within first three choices.

albertporter

Owner
Philb7777 now that you called my attention to it I can see the difference.

I've heard many good reports on SRA but never auditioned.

I agree on Billy Bags, their work was beautiful. The website is inactive and retailers such as Acoustic Sounds has them listed as "No Show" which is ominous.

The good news, nothing much can go wrong. Enjoy the last of a great line no longer available.

albertporter

Owner
Jwm
Albert I have one Tungsol 6550 original tube. You are welcome to it if you want to experiment just let me know.

What a kind offer, seriously !

I would love to try the Tung Sol, it's reputation is it's one of the best ever.

albertporter

Owner
I haven't experimented with any tubes in the amps yet, but have been reading on several forums about people using the KT-150's in Ref series amps with fantastic results and thus far no circuit issues with blown tubes, caps, etc.

There are no issues. I have good source that says KT-150 is perfect for the ARC REF. Problem is availability and precision matching, it's a rather new tube.

One thing of interest is that I do bias the amps about every 6-8 weeks. There is very little drift, but I do adjust. The fans on the amps are super quiet too - my room is smallish and enclosed (21x15x9) and the fans are not audible for me the listening position.

I plan on checking bias often and good news the fans are inaudible.

I checked your system thread here at Audiogon. Are those Target stands under your ARC REF 250 ?

I see Billy Bags for the turntable, I love the style of Billy Bags pro amp stands but appears they are out of business.

albertporter

Owner
07-19-14: Philb7777
... drive my Eidolon Diamonds with ease..... It's almost like they have the best attributes of solid state and tubes combined. Never have I had soundstage width, continuity of soundstage and extension/decay of notes like this.

Precisely what I'm being told by friends in the business with first hand experience.

Have you tried KT-150 tubes in the REF 250? What about NOS 6H30 versus the new version?

Have you experimented with the 6550 in V11 position? Likely comes with an Electro Harmonix, I'm a fan of Wing C but unknown how audible that position is in the circuit.

albertporter

Owner
07-19-14: Lak
Hello Albert,
I look forward to hearing what you have to say about the ARC REF 250.
Congratulations ;-)!

Likely will require 400+ hours before the REF shows all it's capable of. I'm told the KT-150 tubes are a substantial upgrade in this circuit and August before those arrive.

The VTL 750 is a tough opponent, it has massive slam and warmth and that's what my system needs. I'm not a fan of "Hi Fi" upward tilting tonal balance and sound in your face. I want to be pulled into the music and feel emotion, listen with my heart and head.

The ARC REF uses Wing C 6550 as regulator where VTL uses solid state. I hope that tube in the ARC offsets the (sometimes) vivid 6H30 gain stage tube since it does not have a substitute.

Jfrech and I have been friends for many years and he had BAT when the original 6H30 tubes were available. He has kindly offered to let me borrow these once the ARC is broken in.

Lots of work ahead before I uncover all the possibilities, including new AC cords. The VTL uses 15 Amp IEC, Audio Research requires 20 Amp IEC

albertporter

Owner
Jwm
I would think Albert would be using tetrode mode. When I had VTL's I like them better in tetrode mode.

You thought correctly.

albertporter

Owner
07-19-14: Cerrot
Hi Albert, do you run the VTL 750s in tetrode or triode?

Tried both settings with Sound lab, Dali Megaline and now the Focal. Each time Tetrode was best. Triode has the reputation of being superior but not with VTL 750 in my system.

albertporter

Owner
07-18-14: Peterayer
Albert, will these ARC amps be in for evaluation or have you bought them? If the latter, have you heard them with your speakers and what other amps did you consider?

I'll be interested to learn how they compare to your VTLs.

No evaluation, I purchased brand new. They will deliver with factory KT-120 tubes and I have a matched set of KT-150 ordered that hopefully will arrive in August.

I have not heard REF 250 with Focal Grande EM but have experience at shows this past couple of years. I also have advise from folks in the business that have direct experience.

Amps I considered were VTL Siegfried II, ARC REF 750, VAC S450 and Allnic A-10000 DHT.

I too am looking forward to comparing with my VTL 750, an amp that's delivered the goods for years.

albertporter

Owner
Mapman
Can't go wrong with ARC. :^)

Albert, I don't recall what tube amps these are replacing?

Also I'm wondering did you ever get the Bel Canto Class D amps to work with the field coils in the Focals? OR anything else? If so, any impressions?

The Audio Research will replace the VTL 750 shown in my system list.

Regarding Bel Canto, I finally got them working and had about a week on them, I was going to be out of town for an extended period and loaned them to a friend in Europe.

Ultimately I decided since my two pair of VTL amps had been (one pair) treble only and (one pair) bass only since previous Dali Megaline had electronic crossover before the amps.

I decided to sell one pair of VTL and use the other pair full range to break in the Focal so everything would see full bandwidth at the same time.

albertporter

Owner
07-18-14: Jwm
Congrads Albert is this new or used?
New.

albertporter

Owner
Jfrech
Hi...Congratulations on the ARC Ref 250's...can't wait to read your opinion after some time of the clock!

Thank you John.

Many people say the new ARC REF 75 is Audio Research best amp ever. The REF 250 is cut from the same cloth, a bit more complex but also more powerful.

It shipped today, I should have it Tuesday.

albertporter

Owner
System edited: Added Audio Research REF 250, edited other images for clarity.

albertporter

Owner
Thanks Lawrence, I enjoyed meeting you as well.

albertporter

Owner
Ketcham,

David told me you were doing research. I appreciate your posting this on my thread since I just received my Allnic DHT DAC.

I have not singled out DSD files for testing, this last Tuesday night we were punching up material for pleasure regardless of format or music type.

I will dig through my library for DSD files and do some testing. Also do I understand you and the engineer that worked out the digital section for KS at Allnic both prefer Audirvana software?

Last, is the My HIFI Life your site or are you just quoting from it?

I looked it up via search engine, the format is pleasing and I found it interesting to read. Especially the comments about new Tri Planar tonearms. I was just speaking with Tri today about trying one of his new 12" tonearms.

albertporter

Owner
It's a great song. The Louis Armstrong version should be a part of everyone's music library.

albertporter

Owner
Whart
Albert and Rockitman: have you guys met in person*? I think you'd be dangerous together :)

____
*I almost typed 'prison' but that's a different story.

As Rockitman says, only on the phone and via email but I feel like I know both Whart and Rockitman through via Audiogon.

Yes that's where all of us crazy audiophiles met, in Prison not in person :^).

" Jailer, bring me a fresh pressing of St. James Infirmary, I'm feeling mighty blue and miserable."

albertporter

Owner
Rockitman
Are you talking about the Allnic A 10000 DHT mono's ? They are $90k ? yikes !

Yes, put me in shock too. I'm sure they are wonderful but way out of my budget.

albertporter

Owner
Rockitman
Hi Albert...what are you replacing your VTL's with ? I must be late to the party...

I did not post that info since I'm still in the decision making stage. I thought about Pass Labs like you but tube amps for the past 30 years might make that a difficult transition.

I would love to consider the new Allnic DHT but it's $90K, putting it completely outside of my budget.

I'm worried about Wing C 6550 tubes going away. Pretty much definite that they are no longer in production. I dislike Gold Lion and Sovtek KT-88/6550 and my VTL 750, VTL Siegfried, VAC, CAT and others still operate and sound best with Wing C 6550 (in my opinion).

ARC, Octave (Germany), Allnic, Doshi and others have moved to KT-120 and/or KT-150 design. The KT-120 and KT-150 are more reliable and less prone to short and produce more power. I have a reliable contact that says the KT-150 is good for 4000 hours.

Not completely decided but likely Audio Research Ref 250 with KT-150 outputs. I'll decide in the next few days and post an update. The ARC REF is designed to digest all tubes, KT88, 6550, KT-120 and KT-150 so I have some wiggle room to tweak if need.

albertporter

Owner
Ketcham
Albert,

I understand why you replaced the unit instead of upgrading. Regarding sonic qualities, what is your impression of the MK-II over the MK-I transformers?

There are three upgrades to transformer and caps. The MK2 has only been available since last quarter of 2013 as I posted earlier.

This last improvement is much the same as before. Improved dynamics, higher resolution and wider bandwidth. The bass is much better in this last revision.

albertporter

Owner
Tonight we had a great session and amazingly it was 80% digital and 20% analog. The Allnic DAC is not a replacement, or even a contender against my analog but for the first time digital files were enjoyable.

The material that was downloaded from HD tracks or other high resolution format was generally much better than typical CD rip. However there were a few CDs that sounded very good.

Also looks like my VTL 750 amps may go up for sale soon. I'll post more as this progresses.

albertporter

Owner
Ketcham
Albert - Quick question about the L3000. Did you replace your MK-I transformers with the new MK-II? If so, what is your impression? I believe they run $1500 plus labor.

Early on when I knew the upgrade was coming I sold my previous unit and bought a new one. There have been at least three distinct revisions on Allnic L3000 since they became available in the USA about six years ago.

I upgraded some early units, probably six years ago for friends and customers. It's not difficult but very time consuming. The factory wiring is beautiful and aftermarket work should be equal and It's a PITA to get perfect, even with a Hakko workstation.

albertporter

Owner
Ketcham
Regarding the L5000. I agree with your assessment regarding the microphonics and tube noise. The L4000 (L3000) is dead silent even when you turn up the pre-amp well beyond (2x) the normal listening volume range. I found both the L5000 and L4000 to have high gain. L4000 gain is more, I agree, but it does not matter for my listening environment which is purely digital. I never had the need to turn the volume beyond one quarter turn from low. The L4000 is maintenance free. You can place on any shelf and there are no sonic issues. The L5000 is sensitive and requires TLC. Like children, I find this both frustrating and rewarding. What I find rewarding about the L5000, when she is in a good mood - more dynamics, faster attack, slightly more detail in the transients and decay. Overall to me more palpable with better ambience.

Dynamics did not happen here, the L3000 was far superior. Are you certain you've heard the latest L3000 MK2 that was released at the end of last year?

Yes, the L5000 was warmer and "lossier" which might be a better match for some digital, but for my analog sources it was a downgrade from the L3000 (MK2) in every way. I literally could not find a single benefit from the more expensive preamp.

Gain is not an issue here either, that is to say I have plenty of gain in both cases. My complaint is the gain with the L3000 is stronger, a preamp that is already so quiet it challenges solid state and lesser gain with L5000 that has noise and microphonics compounding an already existing problem, make sense?

When I listen to the L5000 at normal levels during a silent passage, there is the sound of whooshing water or air being beat upon. This is present with digital and analog and is inescapably obvious on my 95DB efficient speakers from sixteen feet away without even trying to notice it.

The L5000 was sitting in the same spot as the L3000, isolated on all sides from concussion from my speakers. The gel sockets and isolation footers were in perfect order and I had no exposed cables that could transmit to the chassis or cause isolation conflict.

The three times I've had this L5000 here you could reach for the volume knob and hear your hand though the speakers at normal listening level. I tried several sets of (the original) NOS Telefunken tubes and this last trial after tube sockets were replaced I was able to run the new KRON tubes. That helped but still not enough to move me from the L3000.

I hope to get another sample other than this one that's been upgraded multiple times. I had faith that it was OK since Rick Schultz (High Fidelity Cables) liked it. Oddly enough I could not hear the noise problems when we tested at Ricks home. Then again our systems are completely different and my room is dead silent by comparison due to all the treatment.

I hope to receive another sample of the L5000 soon. I shipped this one back to the factory to be checked out. KS Park listened here with me and wants to find why this does not work here. He loved my system, said "maybe the best ever," which made me happy.

If a new L5000 proves even half as good as the Allnic H5000 DHT phono I'll buy one.

albertporter

Owner
System edited: Added Allnic D5000 DAC to equipment list.

albertporter

Owner
Ketcham
Albert - I would be very interested in your thoughts on the oversampling. Keep us posted!

Could be awhile.

I found not only the interconnect but AC cord made a HUGE difference. I have both ordered but unknown when they will arrive. I have the new Purist Dominus coming as an RCA. I'm thinking the midrange of that cable plus running singled ended might crank up the magic.

The 25th Luminist AC is going on this DAC. A bit over the top but every DAC I've had responded big time to the power cord. If that pushes performance where I can listen back and forth between it and my two analog sources it will be well worth it.

albertporter

Owner
Ketcham
Why do you prefer the L3000 over the L5000 DHT? I have both and each has sonic qualities, both of which I find enjoyable but for different reasons. Curious your thoughts.

I've really tried to make the L5000 DHT work here, everyone but me thinks its the best preamp there is but I get too much noise in addition to reduced gain and a lack of (ultra) low bass accompanied by microphonics.

What did you find preferable about the L5000? Do you have the H5000 DHT phono as main source or a digital guy?

albertporter

Owner
Ketcham
Albert.
.... Do you find with the d5000 any point where the upsampling to 128 dsd does not give any advantage or even has sonic penalty?

In our initial session everyone preferred oversampling but my 8TB drive has a every kind of file. So, until we compare HD Tracks to DSD and ripped CD it's unknown what sampling option will prove itself.

albertporter

Owner
Charles1dad,
...seems like you have a winner on your hands."
I hope so, only time will tell.

It responded big time to changes in interconnect and AC cable and front panel buttons allow oversampling up to double DSD on the fly. The remote control also allows this from the hot seat which will be helpful.

albertporter

Owner
I agree with you. The Allnic DAC was the second best DAC I ever heard. It had many analog qualities that made it sound very organic and open. I think the DHTs in it may have helped.

My take as well and performance should improve as DHT circuit and (multiple) transformers break in. When we auditioned it had just been pulled off the UPS truck. In my experience that's about as bad as it gets for audio gear.

I thought the Stahl-Tek DAC was almost as good as your analog rig which is high praise.

I agree and have been thinking about that ever since Tuesday night.

When the Stahl~Tek test was done I still had Dali Megalines and previous cartridge plus it was before Richard Krebs did mods on the MK3. That was well before Allnic MK2 line stage upgrade and most of all, before the new H-5000 DHT phono.

Any DAC in the system now is facing much stiffer competition than before and the Focal speakers allow us to hear differences more easily. Perhaps that's even higher praise for this little Allnic DAC.

More Redbreast is here for your return visit and don't forget the delicious Angles Envy Bourbon finished in ruby port casks. A new favorite of mine.

albertporter

Owner
I received the new Allnic D5000 DAC late today, just before we left for dinner.

We plugged it in when we returned, just as everyone was arriving for our usual Tuesday night music. We switched the DAC back and forth against master tape and LP all night.

This is the second best DAC I've ever heard, the best being the $73,000.00 Stahl~Tek which I can neither justify or afford. I think as the tubes, transformers and circuitry breaks in it will be a real stunner.

albertporter

Owner
Dnath
Thank you Albert. Is most of Technics information contained within this system thread and the "Albert Porter Technics SP10 MK3 Project"? Any other thread/resource I'm missing?

The details of this project seem to go on forever as I gain more experience and knowledge. It's possible to put a Technics MK2 (or MK3) together with minimal modifications and get really good sound.

Doing all of the tweaks and upgrades makes the difference between just good and state of the art.

Feel free to ask about anything you are unsure of.

albertporter

Owner
Philb7777
Albert, I'm running ARC Ref 250's on my Avalon Eidolon Diamonds which are typically a tough load for an amp. My room is 21x15x9 feet and I rarely have to turn the volume of my preamp beyond 40% of total volume output to get dynamic and sound to my decibel liking.

I've read positive comments about the Ref 250 delivering great dynamics, improved musicality and enjoyment factor while being far more reliable than earlier designs. Perhaps the KT120 output tubes coupled with a better design.

Avalon was on my very short list when I bought my Focal last year. The Eidolon Diamond is a great speaker, one of the few times at a high end audio show where I stopped, sat down and listened because I was drawn in was due to that speaker.

albertporter

Owner
We all develop a certain familiarity and comfort level based on our experiences and outcomes.
That is true, I tried many different amplifiers on my (previous) Dali Megaline speakers. Regardless if I ran the amp on ribbon section or woofer array the VTL 750 always beat out other brands.

Before the Dali I had Sound-Lab ultimate and I wound up with VTL 750 on it after experimenting with half a dozen brands. In fact, the VTL that ran the Sound-Lab was moved to the Dali Megaline.

I'll hear the Allnic DHT at some point, I traded email with Eunice from KRON a few hours ago, she wrote to say it was nice seeing me at Munich. I ask about tube life of the large custom KRON 1610 power tube. The new DHT Allnic requires that tube and no question it's a beauty but also very expensive.

I know 6550 and KT120 designs but admit some nervousness about difficulty of obtaining Wing C-6550 power tubes. I don't like Gold Lion reissue in the VTL 750.

On same topic, this afternoon I received two matched pair of NOS 1950s Siemens ECC801s. This is one of the rare 12AT7 types and has resolution to spare but a bit "frayed" on the top end compared to my Big Shield Mullard.

Maybe with more hours the Siemens will show off it's full capability.

albertporter

Owner
Albert,
I suppose it depends on the particular speaker design. 95 db is quite sensitive, is there a tough impedance load/phase angle with your speaker?

Tough impedance or load? Not that I am aware of, it's the Focal Grande EM I have listed in my system thread. Nominal impedance is 8 ohms and minimum is 3. Focal suggests amps from 50 watts to 1500.

I came from DALI Megaline where I ran four VTL 750 after trying a number of amps and absolutely loved the VTL 750 so it stayed in the system when I went for the Focal.

I heard Babybears system some months ago and loved it as much as my own. He has four VTL Siegfried 800 watt on his Rockport Arrakis. Maybe I'm just caught up in the idea but big power seems a good idea.

albertporter

Owner
Charles1dad
Hi Albert,
How power or current hungry are your speakers?
They are about 95 DB efficiency but currently I'm accustomed to the VTL 750 which is very powerful.
I realize ARC has the well earned name but I'd not be surprised if the Allnic amplifier is superior sounding.
I have lots of Allnic already, no question the phono and line stage are top tier.

Any amp that sounds "better" but runs out of dynamics or headroom would wear thin over time. 100 watts seems a bit on the edge. even the 250 watt ARC makes me a bit nervous.

albertporter

Owner
Albert, check out Nat Audio Transmitter and Magma tube power amps, 150W+/ch plus of total crazy tube loveliness all the way from Serbia of all places

Sounds interesting but I don't know anything about them or how they handle customer needs and service. I'll check via web, thanks for the suggestion.

albertporter

Owner
Thanks Rugyboogie.

I'm still on the search for possible replacement for my VTL 750s. Hope to hear the Allnic DHT but concerned that it's only 100 WPC.

Anyone heard the new ARC Ref 250 or 750? Opinion?

albertporter

Owner
Richard,

You're right, they seem to be more difficult to find than a few years ago.

albertporter

Owner
Thanks for the kind remarks.

We had great sound last night, at least in my opinion. I had a full house with just about every spot filled. We played a wide variety of music and best of all, we laughed a lot.

I love sharing music with friends, it make me feel like a kid again.

albertporter

Owner
I should say, no way could I have done this without help from a friend.

I am very grateful.

albertporter

Owner
Peter,

The one I have now is pretty near perfect but this one is as new. Photos taken five minutes ago with my point and shoot Sony

You judge.

http://postimg.org/image/wparh6bzn/

http://postimg.org/image/le83st54j/

http://postimg.org/image/txrhqkdgz/

albertporter

Owner
I just received a Technics MK3 turntable I purchased outside the USA. It could pass for new in the box. I've been searching for one this perfect for many years.

I have not decided if I'll sell the one currently in my system or keep both. I feel blessed to have found this.

albertporter

Owner
I too use Nikon D800, it has resolution to spare and even with my 30" monitor I can click the + button on Photoshop until it runs off the screen and still have pixels to spare.

Southern Africa would be a superb trip for photos. My wife and I have been dreaming about where might be a good place to get away. We have not had a vacation in years.

albertporter

Owner
Hi Albert,
I hope that this finds you well! If you do not mind, I know that the Blumenhofer horn speaker was new to you, could you maybe share some of your thoughts about the attributes of that transducer?

Just as my judgement of the Allnic DAC was difficult due to the Blumenhofer, for that reason I'm not sure what that speaker is capable of under ideal conditions.

My first impression is it's physical size was big and so was the sound. Very large sound stage and surprisingly not in your face like I thought it might be.

Tonal balance was nice the last day of the show after cartridge swap, speaker placement corrected and phono loading changes.

The back of the speaker allowed easy viewing of the driver and hook up and the parts and workmanship were first class. Next door was an old original Western Electric rig and it sounded even larger so I guess image size can be whatever the listener thinks is correct.

The setup included a Van den Hul cartridge and until it was replaced I disliked the speakers. A case of source component swaying the overall balance and the speakers got the blame.

That's why I'm not too critical at shows, if I had not listened that last day and was quick to judge the speakers would be blamed. You know from your own system how difficult this is.

albertporter

Owner
Hello Peter,

I too am interested in the difference. My understanding is the ETNA is super fast and clean, I just hope it's not too much on the clinical side to achieve that.

albertporter

Owner
Johnp

Albert,
Did you get a chance to listen to the Allnic DAC in Germany? I bet it sounds amazing.

I heard it but they shared space with Blumenhofer horn speakers and they are a unknown for me.

The DAC sounded good in that setup, in fact better than the turntable the first three days. Then we replaced the cartridge with a new Air Tight Supreme.

I should have my own Allnic D-5000 DAC in a week or so. I'll post first impressions and updates as it breaks in.

albertporter

Owner
John,

I had a talk with Joe during a couple of recent audio shows where I was doing photo coverage.

Joe and I have been friends for more than 35 years, so when he makes a suggestion it's on friendly and direct level. Heck, he sure doesn't need the business, AQ is one of the most successful companies in high end.

Anyway, he advised me to purchase the Atlas when it first came out, long before there was a waiting list.

Fortunately I took his advice, it's a great cartridge and I understand nearly a year waiting list now, due to rave reviews.

Recently while discussing the AudioQuest Diamond Fiber Optic cable the Atlas came up and I ask about it's performance compared to ETNA.

The ETNA is reported to be even more dynamic and better bass control than the Atlas so I ordered one.

The biggest issue I have with my Atlas is the bass is weak and lacks control. It's easily defeated by the Air Tight Supreme on that comparison as well as musicality.

The Atlas is quicker and more incisive (overall) than the Air Tight, so for some LPs it's a perfect match. The ETNA is supposed to be better in these regions so perhaps it will narrow the gap between Lyra and Air Tight overall.

Unfortunately the ETNA is now on back-order too but I have to test the new Allnic cartridge and maybe Kiseki, so my hands are full until arrival of the ETNA.

Ironically, I advised Jim Aud (Purist Audio design) to purchase an ETNA some months ago and he already has it in his system. I should have followed my own advise and ordered back then.

After the ETNA arrives I'll decide which is best, Atlas or ETNA. Would be nice if the ETNA was good enough to unseat the Air Tight Supreme so I could cut back to one cartridge.

Probably won't happen, I've been trying to unseat the Supreme for years and it continues remains in my system as first or second place winner, depending on the LP mastering.

albertporter

Owner
Today I ordered a Lyra ETNA, Allnic D5000 DAC and an AudioQuest Diamond fiber optic cable.

The Diamond is so I can experiment with the Allnic DAC between Oppo, Amazon Fire TV and other DACs as well as my Mac mini.

On Wednesday I may order a new Kiseki cartridge, that meeting will decide.

albertporter

Owner
1. How much is the purist DC cable for the PSU retailing for ?

I assume you mean for the Focal Grande EM power supply? That cable is sold as pair and retail $4500.00. The quality is 25th Anniversary level which is Purist best.

Glad you got the blinking PSU sorted out.

albertporter

Owner
Jwm,

Jim White is a great designer. I was communicating with him when Aesthetix was not known to most of the audio world, back when Jim was still with Theta.

Considering when Aesthetix was introduced (around 1995) and knowing the basic design and parts decisions had to be prior to that, twenty years have passed with only minor modifications.

That speaks volumes about his ability and the staying power of Aesthetix design and marketing.

That said, a lot has changed in all those years. I've had several pieces in my system, both preamp and phono that were superior.

This looks like a new start for Jim, a fresh design with potential to be a new reference standard. I have faith, it's possible this preamp will move Aesthetix years ahead of everyone again.

albertporter

Owner
I've posted about that a few times and the correct answer depends on tonal balance preference as well as associated equipment.

A safe bet is the Boston Carbon Fiber Mat 2. It's reasonably priced, with moderate mass and it's far superior to stock rubber mat.

Other options are the Oyaide Mat and Micro Seiki CU-180 and at one time I had (or still have) all these as well as the Micro Seiki CU-500, TTM Stainless, TT Weights, Herbies, Funk Firm and others I can't recall.

The clamp or weight can make a big change too, some better than others and dependant on all the other pieces.

Off your direct question, I would find a tech to replace all critical parts in the MK2. It insures highest performance as well as reliability and can make a huge difference in performance. I use Bill Thalmann at Music Technology and have no affiliation with him other than being happy with his work.

You made a smart choice with the Technics SP10 MK2. It's not just a good table, it's outstanding provided you follow through on everything needed to reach it's maximum potential.

albertporter

Owner
Here are a couple of other images.

Jim White of Aesthetix posing with his new (prototype) preamp. If I remember correctly it has only four tubes. We discussed it at length and my impression is Jim thinks it's superior to the top line Callisto.

The rear panel (not shown) has both single ended and XLR for every input. I liked the style, size and design and hope to be able to hear it when it comes out.

Jim White with prototype

I met the people at KLaudio too. They have a super cool device that allows multiple LPs be loaded and it automatically places, cleans and retrieves each record, one by one.

Unknown when it will be available, but I want one.

KLaudio

albertporter

Owner
I returned from Munich High End Show last night. I enjoyed myself and captured a few images.

Allnic DHT DAC

Srajan Ebaen photographing KS Park

albertporter

Owner

Jwm
Here is a picture of the DAC and it appears to Upsample the digital signal. This is totally different from the Lampizator which does not use over or upsampling or a digital filter.

Thanks for the link Jeff, I had a PDF but did not know about that website.

I read your comments about upsampling and digital filter and decided to call KS in Korea. I literally just hung up the phone with him (9:20 PM Central USA. 11:20 AM S. Korea)

He says the new Allnic DHT DAC is DSD and also will do PCM. KS says the end user can listen at actual sample, upsample DSD or PCM and change on the fly via the remote control.

My Korean is non existent and KS English is quite good but I should listen and test for myself to determine the accuracy of that statement.

I'm promised an actual photo on Saturday and if that wish comes true I'll make it available here via link.

albertporter

Owner
Johnp
The Allnic DHT DAC should be wonderful. Can't wait to hear what you think. Have fun in Munich!

Thank you, it will be interesting to see how many familiar faces are there so far from home.

I've provided High End Audio Show coverage in Sweden, Italy and Britain. Also Montreal (several times), but this is my first time for Munich.

I'm also hired to cover Newport and RMAF already. It's going to be a great year for me to look and learn via my photography.

albertporter

Owner
Charles1dad
DHT tubes are wonderful re producers of music. Lampizator makes an excellent DHT tube DAC (level 7) and it'd be very interesting to compare to the Allnic. Curious to know how they differ in design and circuit as both have very talented builders respectively.

I have two guys in my music group that are obsessed with Lampi gear. Maybe we can work a way to play both these in the system and take a vote.

The other piece I'm interested in hearing is the new AMR high res DAC. I'm a big fan of Darren Censullo (and Bonnie). I'm promised an opportunity to hear it once it's available.

albertporter

Owner
Lak
Albert, I want to hear more about the new Allnic DHT Digital to Analog converter (DAC), when you have an opportunity to see and hear it.
Thanks...

I probably cannot tell from listening in Munich but I hope it's something I can get excited about.

albertporter

Owner
I have two new heavy duty diodes in my Allnic H-5000 DHT power supply which allows me to use the Sylvania 5U4GB (direct heated) rectifiers KS Park suggested this week.

We listened all evening with the Sylvania but will likely have to revisit with 5Y3 to determine which is preferred.

I ordered Allnic new DHT Digital to Analog converter (DAC) today. I will hear it and handle it in Munich next week but probably won't get mine until end of May or early June.

KS is over the moon for this, he hired a young engineer that was with Sony (and later) Samsung to do the digital part while he worked out the DHT circuits and transformers.

I hope it's as good as he indicates, I've not heard digital I really loved except for the Stahl~Tek Vekian which is out of my price range.

albertporter

Owner

Peter,

I live in a historic house in a district that does not allow for modern window types. When I became interested again in audio, I had custom 6 over 6 true divided single pane sashes made with tempered glass for sound blocking properties in my listening room.

The french doors between our living room and the photo studio are true 15 light Simpson hardwood doors with tempered glass. It's very effective, even with record cleaning machine out there you don't hear it in the living room.

I wish Velux had skylights with shades in larger sizes. I tried many ways to get them to fit my large opening but they are not available. I found out the shades are actually made in Denmark and sold by Velux so the largest combination light and shade is 36" square.

A plain double Low E glass skylight without built in shade is not a problem. I'm looking into replacing the Plexiglas if only to protect against hail damage. Quieter would be an added benefit.

albertporter

Owner
Albert , thanks for your info. I wonder whether it will reduce the noise during heavy rain if I were to use twin glass with airtight gap between the glass & place Hunter Douglas shade below the glass?

I'm told by reliable sources that twin tempered glass is almost as quiet as traditional roof with no opening. In my situation the entire opening is treated with sound proofing. That plus the Hunter Douglas shades should put everything right as rain (:^)

Thank for the compliment on my room being beautiful. My main goal is a no pressure home. I want guests to feel as welcome as we do.

albertporter

Owner
Audioblazer
Hi Albert. Is your skylight sealed with laminated or tempered glass?
I'm working on a quote for custom Velux, twin (hail proof) low E glass. Currently we have (non frost) clear twin dome Plexiglas.

My initial intention is to close it up but reading your thread make me realized that skylight with natural lighting is beautiful & conducive . May I know the Hunter Douglas system you are using?

I love natural light, it's depressing sitting in a room lit completely by artificial light. My wife and I installed two 8' X 3' skylights the first year we moved in. Two more were added when the photo studio was designed and attached.

Other than daylight there are twenty different Osram Halo Spot or flood halogen fixtures. These two sources make beautiful light together.

All that time a giant tree shaded the entire roof it was the most incredible feeling imaginable. When we listened to music the light was filtered by the tree softly moving with the wind. The patterns in the room were energizing and beautiful and occasionally we got a live show from songbirds, raccoons or squirrel in the tree looking in at the humans.

Yes, the acrylic is noisy during heavy rain, Plexiglas is not as ideal as twin tempered glass. I will say the new shades block sound but I have not measured the difference.

Hunter Douglas claims (approx.) 65% sound absorption for this shades multi layered cellular design.

If you want to shop this, the system is Hunter Douglas Duette Skylift PowerRise Operation. Ours is an upgrade material, 3/4" ARCHITELLA Semi-Opaque "Desert Sand" and the rail system color is Gardina White.

It was ordered without batteries pack and with transformer system plus the Hunter Douglas Platinum App. Bridge Kit.

I paid electricians separate to run an outlet box in the attic near each shade so every transformer has easy reach to a plug. The battery operation is advertised to be just as good but you have to climb up there and replace them when they die.

albertporter

Owner
Thank you Lak. My wife tried the remote that came with the installation and could not figure it out. One try with the iPad and she was smiling.

It's nice when technology can make things practical and easy.

albertporter

Owner

Here are two images showing skylight area.

Skylight, rear to front

Looking up

The iPad App. works great. You select how far to open or close with a visual slider and the skylights respond to that exact command.

There is also a way to command open and close sequences timed to a particular time of day to save energy.

albertporter

Owner
Lak,

They just completed the job about an hour ago and it looks nice.

I host music tonight for our group but tomorrow I should be able to capture a couple of images to show the work.

albertporter

Owner
Probably not exciting for anyone but me, but a long time problem is going to be resolved Tuesday AM.

My listening room has a skylight area that's huge, about 8 feet by 16 feet. This is clear glass and was shaded by a huge tree that stood almost three stories tall.

A few years ago during a storm the tree fell up against the house and had to be removed. I looked into motorized skylights for six or seven years and most options were incredibly expensive ($20K and beyond).

Hunter Douglas has and new system that's energy efficient and affordable. I bought the Hunter Douglas Platinum application for Apple iPad. This allows manual and automated control via WiFi for each of the four shades for this area.

I'll do a few shots and post a link once they are up, this area is sixteen feet off the floor so obviously images will be from listening area.

The skylight tunnel is acoustically treated but the skylight's themselves are not. It will be interesting to see if there is any acoustic benefit in addition to the promised energy saving and light control.

albertporter

Owner
C1ferrari
So...Cool :-)

He's a great kid and I love his fiancée, Kensey. He's graduated now but sticking around Tech until she finishes her EE degree.

Are you and Sonny going to the Munich show? I know you were considering.

albertporter

Owner
Earlier this evening my son sent me this email.

Rockin with LP
Rocking out and cooking dinner with Kensey! Just thinking of you, also the squeaks is in her favorite spot when the phono comes on.

Young people listening to music together, cooking dinner and enjoying life. This made me very happy.

Squeaks

albertporter

Owner
Good that all three of us thought the outcome with this DHT tube was positive.

With different listening rooms, speakers and components I would not have been surprised at different conclusions. I plan on keeping my alternate rectifiers but like you, I'm happy for the time being.

albertporter

Owner
Christian, yes the Phillips are cheap compared to the others.

Today I ran the system mostly with the CBS Hytron military version of 5Y3 and at first thought it might be better. Later we put the Phillips back in and I think everyone preferred it.

This time of year with hotter weather coming I can hear our electrical service change as all the commercial properties crank up the AC.

It's more frustrating than testing in winter when things seem stable, at least here where I live.

albertporter

Owner
Albert I mentioned this before without anyone acknowledging so i will mention this again.

I missed that somehow, I make a point of responding to posts on my system thread.

The Sovtek 5AR4 is an indirect heated tube so not really comparable with Phillips 5Y3. I may try it though since the Chinese 5Z3PJ is a sleeper for the money.

I bought three 5Z3PJ Chinese rectifiers for less than $3.00 each and they were better than the JJ Tesla that came in my original H3000.

It will take me awhile to test all the rectifier options. I have the system where I dreamed it would be (after a year) and now it's time for this.

albertporter

Owner
Arnie,

Thank you for that contribution. I do have an alternate 5Y3 on hand to try in the H5000 but suspect what you say is true, likely it and the Phillips will be more alike than different.

albertporter

Owner
Christian,

I've worked on a few Allnic and the advice about caps is well founded. I got a jolt on a H3000 doing an upgrade a couple of years ago for a friend.

Agree also on order of repair. If a circuit seems the least bit confusing to me I draw out where things were and where they go. Sometimes even mark wires with colored tape.

I hope the heavier diodes arrive soon. Also in the package is Kron tubes for my demo H5000 DHT Preamp. I can't wait to hear it properly.

I will certainly try the Mullard GZ37 in these tests.

albertporter

Owner
I would be shocked if you didn't prefer the GZ 34 Valvo's. That said, if you have the heavy duty diode, I recommend the 1967 Mullard GZ37 tube.

Mixed response on this shoot out. The stock DHT Phillips 5Y3 has more life and flow, larger image and in my system produces bass and highs almost equal to midrange.

The Valvo GZ-34 is very midrange and very controlled but does not have equal depth and seems to suppress instruments at the side and rear of the main content.

The Valvo has a tiny bit less sparkle so it might be a better match for my Lyra Atlas. With the Air Tight Supreme the 5Y3 might be the winner tonight.

I have some very old 5Y3, US Navy from CBS Hytron. I may try those and also the old Sylvania 5Y3 I have on hand.

I also have the Mullard GZ37 but only one and I would need two. I have not yet received the heavy duty diode so testing will be limited for a few days until it arrives.

albertporter

Owner
I just installed a pair of 1950s Valvo Holland GZ34 double D getter rectifiers in the Allnic H5000 DHT phono power supply.

Tomorrow night we will judge results. We have a well established sound from many weeks with the pair of Allnic provided NOS Phillips 5Y3 rectifiers.

What we're comparing is different brands of tubes as well as different designs. The Allnic supplied rectifiers are a true direct heated design, versus the indirect heated Valvo just installed.

This will be a learning experience and depending on the results, there are other tubes on hand we can experiment with.

Thanks to Babybear and Christian for their tests with rectifiers that gave me a head start.

I'm a bit late visiting this due to the last bit of speaker break in, Stillpoints 5s experiments and Vibraplane loading modifications. There needs to be more hours in a day.

albertporter

Owner
I invited a fellow Audiogon member to my home last Tuesday. Today I received a very nice note from him.

Albert,

Thank you very much for having me last Tuesday. It was an excellent system, the best I have ever heard.

You have a super high resolution but still very musical system. This is a combination that no one can do in a system.

I listened to it more than 2 hours but still not enough and want to listen to it more. Are you having a meet again next week?

Thanks again for the hospitality.
Huy

I'm pleased to receive such high praise. Makes this hobby worthwhile when we share with others.

albertporter

Owner
Yes, nothing but respect for the fine folks at Focal. For me, the only thing lacking is the ease and naturalness of the real thing; still seems a little mechanical.

My first thought is my Focal Grande is closer to reality than I've ever achieved before.

My second thought is my Focal Grande (and every other speaker made) cannot duplicate a Steinway piano in person.

I see you finally purchased a Studer. I'm regrettably selling mine. No one has ever asked me to record them with it, and I do not have a huge backlog of analog recordings, nor the scratch to get into Tape Project offerings, even though they are good friends.

I've had the Studer since Feb 2010 so it's no longer new to me. I have some of the Tape Project titles and love comparing with LP to help keep a proper perspective.

Any lingering interest in idlers; I'm restoring a Commonwealth 12D/4; should be fun.

I very much respect idlers. They have some important personality traits to my direct drive and deliver excitement that music deserves.

You will hear advantages with an idler but also may struggle with signal to noise and speed accuracy, depending on your current playback reference.

albertporter

Owner
Audioblazer,

Umbilical cable is probably a better description. The cable looks like a regular XLR but with four conductors so it's easy to call it first one thing then another.

The power cord was a huge upgrade. I began with the beautiful "audiophile" AC cable supplied by Focal and didn't think about it for months. Then one day I had a couple of spare Purist Aqueous power cables and plugged them into the Focal supply and could not believe the upgrade.

That led me to test the Purist Limited Edition and 25th Anniversary and each time I went up the chain in quality the sound improved. The increase in dynamics, speed, resolution and lowering distortion is similar to results from adding premium AC cable to a power amp.

I called Jim at Purist and ask if he thought a premium umbilical cable might also help. The next time he was here for photography he brought some test gear. He measured the Focal EM supply and the stock Focal umbilical cable and said he would get back with me.

About a month later I received an experimental umbilical to try and out of the box I knew I had to have it. Pretty much the same sonic upgrade as premium AC cable.

If you have the Stella EM you should try whatever AC cable you favor and see what it does. If you do that test I would appreciate your posting back with results including what AC cable you used and what effect it had on the Stella.

albertporter

Owner
One of our local mastering engineers - one of the three principals in the Tape Project - Michael Romanowski, is using Focal Grande Utopia EMs with the VTL Siegfried Reference Monoblocks. I have listen to this system many times, and it is one of the few direct radiator systems to portray decays accurately. Quite a feat. Your system must sound similarly stunning.

Thank you for the comparison, I'm hardly in the realm of a mastering engineer but will eagerly accept the comparison.

I started with a long list of speakers, all of them top brands. I think there was a bit of luck that caused me to choose the Focal Grande EM because several other good designs were very attractive.

I've attended high end audio shows for more than 30 years and it requires a bit of "windage" to select under adverse conditions that show hotel rooms provide. That being said I heard the Focal Grande in Montreal and RMAF and was mightily impressed.

Now that it's in my home, set up correctly and lots of adjustments and break in I am over the moon for it's performance. I feel like a kid again, I get giddy and laugh when I play LPs that I've heard a hundred times.

They are superb speakers, my deepest compliment to the designers at Focal. I agree with your comment about portraying decay but must add:

(1) Superb speed that should reveal lack of driver integration (but does not). It's a surprise each time, the speed without penalty of accuracy.

(2) Leading edge that has the excitement of live but no "glassy" false tilt to the tonal balance that ruins the emotional experience.

(3) The fastest, cleanest, most precision bass I've ever heard. Yes, I had electrostatic speakers and they were superb in that department but this Field Coil (powered) 16" woofer blows me away every time I hear it.

(4) Image that is huge but FULL. The image is outside the room in width and depth but is not just empty space. I've heard speaker that throw a large image but it's an empty illusion with no micro detail or information within. The Focal Grande EM pulls you into the performance with details that you did not know were there and plants them inside a (large but) believable image.

(5) Emotion. I've had great emotion from time to time with other speakers in my 35 + years in high end audio but this speaker manages to send chills all over my body, not just one time a night, but repeatedly. Does not matter if it's rock, jazz, female vocal or electronic.

I am very grateful to Focal for this wonderful speaker.

albertporter

Owner
System edited: Added image and description of Purist Focal EM supply cable. Corrected Oppo to read Oppo Darbee Edition, recently added.

albertporter

Owner
Christian,

I agree the Stillpoints Ultra SS are excellent. I had them under my VTL amps, turntable (and crossover when I still owned Megalines).

I'll give them a try under the Allnic H5000 when I get past Vibraplane ballast and rectifier testing.

You and Babybear got ahead of me when I was still working on break in of the Focal Grande, having proprietary umbilicals built for same, tube swapping in the VTL 750 and all that laser positioning of the Focal once it got past 1500 hours.

Man what a ride this has been.

albertporter

Owner
Rockitman
Albert,

I know you have been dabbling with stillpoints as of late. My latest success with them has been LP1's placed on top of each of the H5000's dual power transformers. The bass gets tighter and more focused.

I had one LP1 but never two. That would make the experiment difficult here. I've been wondering what Stillpoints Ultra 5 would do under the H5000 DHT.

Before I go for that experiment I need to finish the Vibraplane testing and then install the Mullard and Valvo rectifiers and see what combo is preferred.

albertporter

Owner

Peterayer
Albert, I'm really interested in reading about the progress of this project. As an advocate of preloaded Vibraplanes with steel ballast plates, I'm curious to know how it effects the sound in your system.

It's pretty much as I explained in previous post. Images are smaller and more localized (precise?) with the heavy ballast and higher pressure but not nearly as dynamic or vibrant. I got a significant loss of bass and some of the magic was lost.

I have 80 lbs. psi of air pressure according to the front dials. The tops of the Vibraplanes are 3 3/4" above the stands with the 1" steel above that.

The pressure has to be set for 85 pounds with my table and ballast to get enough pressure so everything can be made level and raise Vibraplane top to correct spec.

Without the ballast I can run 72 pounds and sound is preferred. I don't think it's a big deal if our findings are not identical. Your turntable has a world class suspension so the Vibraplane is a secondary isolation device.

In my system the Vibraplane is the only isolation device so results are going to differ.

albertporter

Owner
Isochronism,

It was a very interesting experiment. Good and bad came from it. It's amazing how sensitive the isolation is and how it changes dynamics, image size and even tonal balance.

The complication came from the mass of the steel requiring additional air pressure to get the Vibraplane level. The sound was a bit trapped and dynamics suffered but the image was very specific and clear.

The last ten minutes of the night after all of us had chosen records to play and judge I reduced air pressure to where it was before the ballast plate. Sound came alive, huge image and great dynamics. Problem was the table could not level precisely .

I'm going to work on it again tomorrow. It would be great to get the benefit of both adjustments, perhaps possible.

Come listen with us John, it's completely changed since you were last here.

albertporter

Owner
Today (Monday) with help from guys in my audio group we pulled my turntable plinth and cables and then hoisted the 20" X 24" X 1" thick steel plate on to the Vibraplane.

Having moved everything around we did not listen. Tuesday is regular music night so we will soon hear what this upgrade brings to the reproduction.

albertporter

Owner
If you ever try a Tripoint, I will be most interested in your impressions. For the money, if I can't get a demo, I have little interest dumping 15-20K with cables just to see how it impacts my system.

That's been my problem too, I don't know what it offers so I cannot judge the performance to cost ratio.

albertporter

Owner
I am curious as to what the scientific rationale lies behind a power cable making a significant sonic difference (and by extension an electrical difference). I suspect many will say that they can hear a difference and that is good enough for them.

I typically avoid discussing this because there are two distinct camps on this topic. Since it's on my system thread I'll respond.

There is NO question AC cables change the sound, some cables render so much change it's almost impossible to grasp unless you are in the room and experience it for yourself.

I heard this the first time more than twenty years ago with a Tiffany TPC60 power cord. Back then it was very difficult to defend since the number of users was so low. Now there are a large number of music lovers that experimented and came to the same conclusion.

As for scientific? I'm not sure we know what or how to measure.

Thus, when it comes to grounding wires how does one counter that same argument?

Audio systems have so many ground planes I suspect many are far from ideal. Perhaps when these problems are solved there is an improvement in sound. I have not listened to the equipment discussed so I'm not going to judge.

albertporter

Owner
Lloyd,

Maybe I'll have a chance to hear one.

Until this past 6 weeks I was still breaking in and making serious adjustments to the Focal and associated equipment.

Adding something like a Tripoint before everything was in place might not show off it's true advantage. I think now everything I change now will be immediate and obvious.

You don't have a system listed here at Audiogon. How can I look up your use of the Tripoint? I see your review of the Nordost AC filter but nothing on Tripoint.

albertporter

Owner
Lloyd,

I've read many rave reports about the Tripoint but have not heard it in my system. Isn’t it about grounding? Wonder if that applies after all my dedicated electrical work?

Also, your electrical grid is completely different than here in the USA, could be another factor in the mix.

albertporter

Owner
Thanks Lloyd. Being obsessed with music it seems this never ends, the desire to make it real.

I know It cannot be done, a stereo as perfect as live music but there are so many artists we cannot access locally, not to mention those who have passed from this world.

The work continues and things have gotten better. We have (mostly) better equipment and reproduction today, even if the cost is high.

I'm amazed by what my Focal Grande EM are delivering now. I had faith the day I ordered them but it took all this time to reach a point where I have the best sound I've ever had. The kind of reality where you are washed over by the combination of resolution, beauty, timing and musicality that's so strong you loose the ability to keep the analytical side of your brain engaged.

I agree with your comment on achieving minimal mechanical distortion. That issue that was not a consideration until fairly recently. I remember Richard Vandersteen saying spikes should go under the original Vandersteen 2, Steve McCormack had Tip Toes and Bob Worzella was working on Sound Anchor stands.

Now it's widely accepted and we have Stillpoints, Vibraplane and countless other devices that bring their own unique solution to the problem.

albertporter

Owner
Peter,

If I add Vibraplanes for my amps I will either contract a local shop to deliver a finished product or purchase from Kinetic Systems. I won't finish two more 140 pound slabs of steel.

On another topic, I ordered the new Oppo BDP-105 Darbee yesterday. Looking forward to improvements in image quality and ability to stream DSD from my Mac computer.

albertporter

Owner
Jazdoc
Congrats Albert! Enjoy all your efforts. Good excuse to buy more software and celebrate ;-)

Funny you say that, I just purchased Carmen McRae Dave Brubeck, "Take Five Live" Original Promo (mono 1961) to celebrate :^).

I have the Columbia reissue from 1973 but Carmen's vocals are a bit hyped. Hoping the old version has the magic. The words to Take Five are wonderful !

albertporter

Owner
Peter,

Actually that conversation came up last night when we were marvelling over the beauty of the music.

I wish I had paid someone with proper tools to grind and finish the steel. It's pretty unyielding, even against a good power sander and silicon carbide paper.

I've been thinking about the possibility of spatter paint. The kind they used for the trunk area in old cars. It might help obscure the rough steel in case I can't get it perfect.

albertporter

Owner
With additional hours plus perfect bias on my new Wing C 6550 tubes, installing Stillpoints Ultra 5 under VTL amps, Focal EM Grande and turntable, I’ve reached an unprecedented performance level.

I had excellent sound two months ago but not perfect.

All that changed last night as all these changes worked in the system for the first time. I struggled to find any fault at all, regardless of software or listening level.

No question I have the best sound I've ever had. I am so grateful, it has taken nearly a year since the Focal arrived and honestly last nights presentation exceeded anything I thought possible.

albertporter

Owner
Jeff,

You are absolutely correct on that point. If I were buying a large quantity of used, dirty LPs that process might well pay for itself.

For mint records the Audio Desk and KL Audio do an incredible job. I usually clean with one and not both. The Audio Desk requires adding it's own special (non foaming) cleaning solution and the rollers, filter and wipers must be replaced over time.

The KL Audio requires water only and I set fifty cleaning cycles for new or mint LPs as a stopping point. I use NERL reagent water for both machines. The NERL water was $100.00 for two five gallon cubitainers.

Since the KL Audio requires one gallon and no additives, it's $10.00 for 50 clean LPs (.20 cents each).

The Audio Desk has a few expendables but does better on really dirty LPs and it's filter system and rollers allow cleaning cycle to be stretched to 100 LPs if you're concerned with cost.

I've thought several times about one of the brush and vacuum type machines, even considered the Typhoon from VPI since it claims higher vacuum and less noise.

Certainly the VPI is priced fair and I know from my 17F it's capable of almost non stop use without failure.

albertporter

Owner
Jeff,

That might provide better results, I have not tried that combination. I had VPI 17 for many years and it provided faithful service and did a good job.

I also owned the Odyssey RCM which is a heavy duty German made version of the Keith Monks. It got LPs cleaner due to the thread getting high vacuum directly in the groove.

I've tried Nitty Gritty cleaner, L'Art du Son cleaner, VPIs Cleaner, Walker Prelude System, MoFi, Record Research Super Deep Cleaner and Rinse, Audio Intelligent (single step and multi step), and probably others I've forgotten.

The Micro Care Premiér Record Cleaner (spray) which is the EPA approved replacement for Freon for cleaning gets mold off and I believe the ultrasonic action of the Audio Desk and KL Audio do too.

If an LP is really trashed the extra steps are often required to get the surface quiet enough to enjoy but new LPs and those bought used that are truly "mint" get wonderfully clean with both of the ultrasonic solutions.

I use NERL Lab Grade water in KL Audio and Audio Desk. The best part of these two machines is dropping in the LP and going back to listen. When the LP that's spinning reaches the run out the clean LP Is ready to play.

albertporter

Owner
Lloyd, regarding Purist 25th Anniversary AC
...and in the last5 hours, it has settled in with all the propulsive power I have come to expect, with the PAD density of midrange tone I love...and yet with a far lower noise floor, a natural waaay out there decay which the Dominus and Canorus cannot match.

That's as perfect a description of what it brings to ones system as I've ever heard.

albertporter

Owner
I will be interested in your impressions going from SS to 5's with the amps.

If the Ultra 5 is not better on the amps I'll try them under some other components or maybe sell and go back to the Stillpoints Ultra SS.

I've been following rectifier tests by you and Arnie. As soon as my system settles down from the other improvements and changes I've made I'll join you guys by trying alternate rectifiers in my Allnic H5000 DHT.

albertporter

Owner
Peter,

Thanks for the suggestion.

Lloydelee, I'm not surprised by your comments on Ernest Lau's system. The description resembles Babybear's Arrakis, even down to the four VTL Siegfried 2 amps. No question the Rockport are world class.

As for Stillpoints, I've been through a lot of isolation devices under my VTL amps. Sound Anchors stand with spikes, Grand Prix amp stands, Stillpoints aluminum stands plus footers and Stillpoints Ultra SS.

The Ultra SS was so clearly superior to the others I had no intention of upgrading until the Ultra 5 came along. Seems everyone that tries Ultra 5 is of the same opinion as to performance it brings.

albertporter

Owner
Peterayer
Sounds like you're making progress, Albert. You have analog on the brain. I think you meant to write "photo" studio, not "phono" studio. I hope there is not too much metal dust around your equipment.

Absolutely photo studio. Difficult to post on audio website without thinking analog :^).

Just remember to deflate the Vibraplanes before you place those heavy ballast plates on them. You will be in for a treat. I grinded/sanded and painted my first plate and it was a pain. For slightly more, I just decided to buy the next two directly from Kinetic Systems. But I did not have to contend with shipping costs because the factory is only one hour away.

The Vibraplane people wanted way more money than a steel supply house here in Dallas. Two, 20 X 24 X 1" plates were $97.00 ea. and they loaded them into my truck.

I know about deflating the Vibraplane, rupturing an air cylinder would be a disaster and of course NO side way movement is allowed. Set plates straight down.

Regarding the amps, have you given any consideration to the new Pass .8 models? Think of all the money in replacement tubes you would be saving over time ;^)

I would absolutely love it if Pass Labs would work. I have no way to demo and it's a big investment. I've heard the ARC Ref 600 MK2 and Babybears VTL Siegfried II and liked both of those.

albertporter

Owner
Please post when they're under your amps. Yes it should be quite a nice gain.

It is done, the pain in my back and legs prove it !

The two VTL amps must be 175 pounds each. Lifting and moving them enough to remove Stillpoints Ultra SS and replace with Ultra 5 wore me out.

I'll listen tomorrow and this weekend. My wife and I will put some hours on the upgrade with music and movies.

I realized today that one year anniversary of delivery of Focal Grande EM is only 90 days away.

I doesn't feel like a year has almost passed, it's been exciting and informative as well as enjoyable. The Focal Grande EM have gone from zero to light speed in less time than any speaker I've ever owned.

Without question, I have sound beyond anything I have ever owned.

I am so happy and yet to hear the Stillpoints under the amps and new driver tubes and rectifiers still to be tested in the Allnic DHT phono.

albertporter

Owner
You're correct. The image you see was taken soon after installation and with the wheels still active.

After moving them around for a few months they are toed in considerably more and now rest on Stillpoints Ultra 5.

albertporter

Owner
Peterayer
Albert, how are those steel ballast plates coming along? Also, have you considered additional Vibraplanes under your amps? The system must be singing now.

Hello Peter, the steel ballast plates are in my phono studio. I've been grinding on them with a power sander every chance I get. They were pretty rough in spite of what the supplier said.

I need a couple of coats of primer and paint and then with help, will place them on top of my two Vibraplanes.

Yes, I've thought about Vibraplane for my amps but also considering shopping for new amps. Nothing wrong with my VTL 750 but I think the new VTL Siegfried II or maybe Audio Research Ref 750 might be higher performance.

Until that's decided and I know final size the amp will be, Vibraplane for that position will be on hold.

albertporter

Owner
Thank you Lloyd.

I put Stillpoints Ultra 5 under the turntable and got the same improvements as the speakers, just not as drastic. I expect that's because the turntable already had Ultra SS which is a very fine footer and I also have a Vibraplane.

Next I'm installing my remaining eight Ultra 5 under the VTL amps. I expect a significant gain there.

albertporter

Owner
Sirlordcomic,

I have no experience with Black Cat or Cardas Parsec so I can't choose between those.

Obvious from my system thread, I'm a Purist guy. The new Genesis cable is very inexpensive and performs far beyond it's cost. Higher up Purist line is Aqueous and Venustas both are excellent.

If you want suggestions for other brands, older Stealth cable had great sound good for the money and I auditioned Echole cable a few weeks ago and it's excellent too. The Echole is higher priced, like upper line Purist.

albertporter

Owner
Peter
Peterayer
Albert, did the height of your speakers change after you inserted the Stillpoints?

A 14mm threaded rod is required for either footer. Once the Focal or Stillpoints rod is fully in, there is no height difference.

Height of footers are different. The Focal is comprised of three pieces. (1) 14MM rod, (2) 35mm tall cone, (3) 30mm spike.

Focal said that with Slate floor, the spike is not required. The spike is for carpet to penetrate to solid under surface.

Stillpoints Ultra 5 is 50mm tall, 15mm more than Focal cone without spike and 15mm shorter than Focal cone with spike.

The Focal cone is 20mm (circular) contact with the Slate. Stillpoints is a 45mm (circular) contact with the Slate.

There is absolutely something to this Stillpoints design. More contact area but seemingly better isolation than spikes and I don't think height is contributing.

The Stillpoints is almost exactly a split between the two stock Focal footer options.

albertporter

Owner
Csng1
Hi Albert

I just installed Nordost sort fut on my Hansen emperor 2 days ago.. It is amazing best investment. I think everyone with stock spike need a real good isolation feet.

I did not experience the effect of the footer you choose but I agree they are a powerful tool. I have a large box of footers that date back to the first Mod Squad Tip Toe and even some Goldmund footers.

Everyone one of these have a sound and distinct effect on the equipment they support.

albertporter

Owner
I knew the Ultra 5's would give you ultra satisfaction with the Focal's !!! Amazing devices aren't they ?

They are indeed, I suspect any speaker would benefit and I am very pleased with the results they provided.

albertporter

Owner
System edited: Changed Focal Grande stock image with my actual speaker. Shown with Stillpoints Ultra 5. Added additional image of Technics SP10 with Ultra 5

albertporter

Owner

Stillpoints Ultra 5 under the Focal Grande EM is nothing short of amazing.

The Stillpoints adaptors I purchased work perfect. They are shorter than the factory threaded rods intended for use with factory footers but very high quality and easy to implement.

I used the blue colored Locktite (removable with effort) to secure the 1/4-20 to 14MM adaptor into the Ultra 5 and allowed it to cure overnight. With help from John who is part of our audio group we tipped the Grande just enough so I could get my hand under it and remove Focal footers and thread in the Ultra 5.

First note out of the Focal, everything improved beginning with imaging becoming both wider and deeper.

There is a drastic improvement in the impact and contrast of all notes with the bass becoming both cleaner and more transparent without loss of lowest octaves. Overall the distortion is much lower with each frequency being more "solid" within the space while remaining integrated with the rest of the music.

Everything is more locked down and natural sounding. I swear the speaker must have been micro oscillating with the factory feet because this is so much more focused and enjoyable.

If I had to pick at anything, sibilance is also "clearer" so LPs and digital files with that content in the recording are easy to hear. No free ride when you improve resolution, it applies to everything.

Having owned Stillpoints since the beginning I suspected this would be an important upgrade, I'm pleased to have the Ultra 5 under my Focal Grande EM and looking forward to mounting the others that arrived late yesterday.

The other twelve will go under the VTL 750 mono blocks and my Rosewood plinth and MK3. In both cases Ultra 5 replace existing Ultra SS.

If time permits I'll snap a photo today of the lower half of the Focal showing the Ultra 5 in place. I'm happy I waited for the speaker to break in so I could learn and appreciate what the Ultra 5 brings to my systems performance.

albertporter

Owner

I had a shop cut (two) each, 1" X 20" X 24" steel plates that will serve as ballast. They go on top of my Vibraplanes and add 137 pounds additional weight each.

First I must I grind off the rough spots and get a nice paint finish, it should help performance of both the turntable and the Studer.

Also received (20 ea) Stillpoints Ultra 5 this week. These will go under the Focal Grande, VTL amps and turntable.

If this upgrade is as important as everyone claims, I'll have a lot of Stillpoints Ultra SS for sale.

albertporter

Owner
Csng1,

The EL34 position in the Aesthetix power supply is important, you may be shocked at the upgrade a good tube brings to that position. My first choice is NOS Genelex KT77, second choice and much more accessible and affordable is genuine NOS Mullard dual oo getter.

Below is copied and pasted original comments from testing from a DECADE ago. I can clarify comments with experience since that time but it is still pretty much accurate.

Regarding 6922 Sovtek, they would be my first change. For additional midrange and air, try the Siemens 6922 CCa or the Amperex US Military 7308 CEP. If either of these produce too much midrange presence, try the Mullard 6922 (gold pin).

Realize, that when you upgrade to one of these higher resolution NOS 6922's you are listening with more intensity to the weaknesses of the remaining (original) tubes. You are judging the replacement, plus all that it exposes downstream. If after changing to the CCa or CEP, you find that there is too much "grit" in the sound, try swapping the 6SN-7 as described in my long post.

After that, if you are feeling adventuresome, trade out the first stage 12AX7 tubes (Io only). Note, these 12AX7's are the ones I warned about, get TESTED, ultra low noise tubes for this position. My first choice and the most beautiful sound is the Telefunken 12AX7. Other options are the RCA 5751, a US Military version of the 12AX7. The 5751 will alter the tonal balance somewhat, as it is not an exact replacement. There will be a slight loss in gain, with improved signal to noise and lower distortion. Overall, the sound will be a bit more on the dry side.

One final suggestion would be the 12AX7 French Mazda. A good sample of this will produce significant improvements in high frequency transparency, especially compared to the Sovtek. However, the Mazda has not been without problems in my experience. The samples I received are not equally reliable or equally low noise. Some will play perfectly for many months while retaining their original "voice" while other samples will develop horrible microphonics and tube noise in as little as a week. This is a situation that could lead to disappointment with the Io, when in fact, the tubes are the culprit. Unfortunately, there must be some risk and experimentation within your own system to determine what is best.

Albertporter
I have used the Io for some time, and was the first to implement the dual power supplies. I have now done this with the Callisto as well. The Callisto is the matching preamp from Aesthetix.

On tubes, I started with stock and after some break in, decided to change critical positions to improve the sound. The first four 12AX7 tubes (near the input jacks) are VERY critical, and any noise or microphonics in that position are going to make your life miserable. If you get professional help with any tube selection at all, make it these four.

Other tubes that make a big difference is to replace the two Sovtek 6SN7 with the RCA 5692. The old military red base 5692 is the best, but the black plate RCA 6SN7 is a great choice as well. The Sovtek 6922 tubes used in the output of the Io are so bad, that almost any brand is better.

I like the Telefunken 6DJ8, the Mullard 6922 white dot, and Amperex 7308 all nearly equal. The sound of these three sets of tubes is radically different, and the correct choice is in the ears of the beholder. The Sovtek 12AX7 tubes used in the outboard power supply, while audible, are not a good place to begin. Going to something extreme like the Telefunken 12AX7 ( as I have ) will be audible, however everything else needs to be at the limit, for this to pay off.

Changing the EL34 tubes right beside the 12AX7's (still speaking of power supply) have a large effect on the sound. The two best are the MO Valve KT66. Genelex KT-77 and the Mullard dual oo getter EL34.

I have tried almost every tube that will plug in that socket, and these three are by far the best. To respond to the question of reliability, I run my Io 24 hours a day, NEVER turning it off. I pulled the Telefunken 12AX7 and MO Valve KT66 tubes from the two power supplies, and tested them against the recorded numbers from the year before. The loss in trans conductance was only about 12%. At this rate, the power supplies should be able to run 24 / 7 for about 4 or 5 years. Upon testing the main unit, the numbers showed the 5692 (replacement for 6SN7) at about 15% loss in the first year, and the Mullard 6922 white dots (only about 6 months old now) show no loss at all. The main problem with this unit is the fact that ALL the gain is with 9 pin miniature tubes. There are no MOSfets or transistors at all to do this amplification.

To make matters more volatile, the circuit uses NO feedback and is run with extremely high gain. This unit will take the .5 MV signal from a moving coil cartridge, and drive 40 feet of interconnect to amps requiring 5 volts peak to peak input signal. There is not another product requiring so much from the first few tubes in a step up stage. This simply means that some people are going to have terrible luck with plugging in tubes (especially UNTESTED) and others will have no problem at all.

I think Aesthetix fares pretty well as far as maintenance, but with the small signals from your phono cartridge being magnified with microscope like gain, care must be taken. If you have a problem or make a mistake, it will show up. The good news is that if this phono amplifier is set up correctly, it is without question the best product of it's type I have ever heard. The nearest competitor was the Magnum Opus phono from EASE. The EASE was the evolved version of the Counterpoint SA9, both units designed and manufactured by Mike Elliott. If the SA9 or Magnum Opus phono were still made today, I would tell anyone wanting zero hassle with front end tubes to give these units a listen. They are not as magic, silky or dynamic, because the first stage is a FET, but that FET resolves all the issues I spoke of concerning finding perfect tubes for the first stage.

I hope this helps explain what and why and hopefully will allow others to make a decision you can live with. I would be pleased to offer suggestions as to which tubes, if a description of the current system sound is given, and a goal as to what you wish you could change about the sound and tonal balance.
Albertporter  (System | Threads | Answers)

albertporter

Owner
Makeba312,

I always liked Kharma speakers easy to understand why you returned several times.

albertporter

Owner
Csng1,

Two power supplies with Aesthetix Io or Callisto is an improvement that's hard to describe. The second supply does not add deeper bass or more highs, it's more about ease and delivery of the signal. Like all high end products the power supply is vital and adds a sense of reality that cannot be obtained any other way.

It's difficult to say if Valhalla speaker cable would be smarter investment than dual supplies. The two choices bring very different results to a system. Improvement at the source would increase whatever difference the two speaker cables bring.

You did not say what tubes you put in your Aesthetix, there are NOS version of every tube in the main unit and power supply. I can paste my test results here in my system thread if you have not already read them.

NOS tubes are huge improvement, bigger improvement than second supply. Another alternative, Purist Audio Design umbilical cables that are designed to replace the large run between Aesthetix power supply and main unit is a very expensive option but a bigger upgrade than dual supplies and stock factory cable.

This is not just my opinion, it's easy to verify by calling Jim White at Aesthetix. He listened to this combination and was as excited as I was at the improvement.

Last you ask about better than Eclipse?

In my opinion there are several phono and line stages now that edge out the Aesthetix. Aesthetix design was top of the top in 1994 when it was released but everything is the same as twenty years ago except improvement in capacitors and resistors.

When I had Aesthetix my IO and Callisto were full Eclipse version with dual supplies for each (6 boxes total) with Purist umbilical cables in all four positions and the finest NOS tubes available in every tube socket. That is an awesome combination but there are a few higher performance options available now.

albertporter

Owner

Glory
I see you have the Bel Canto 1000 amps. What function do they do in your system.? Driving the bottom end of your speakers?

I bought them to use full range with Focal for the 1500 hours break in. Then I realized that both pair of VTL amps had been bandwidth limited (one bass and one highs) due to Dali active crossover.

The Focal only need one amp so I sold a pair of VTL I kept the other. The one I kept had played highs (only) for more than a decade.

I decided to break in the amp and speakers together and that turned out to be a good decision other than burning down a set of tubes in the process.

albertporter

Owner
Albert - curious about the ultrasonic cleaners - how do the KL Audio and Audio desk compare?

If you purchase either one you will be happy. The two best on the market in my opinion. The Audio Desk has rotating micro fiber barrels which dislodge some of the greasy prints on used LPs better. Perhaps this action is also enhanced by the cleaning concentrate required when Audio Desk is filled with water.

A new LP or in nice condition gets the sound opened up more with the KL Audio alone compared to Audio Desk alone. This result possibly due to the fact KL is water only, so nothing left behind on the LP after cleaning.

In a perfect world one would clean with the Audio Desk and then cycle again with KL Audio. The LP would be double clean and nothing but water in final rinse.

I've done this and it is better. Also note I'm going to extremes to define a difference for sake of providing a complete answer.

If you have a used LP and clean it with a VPI 16.5 and you have no other cleaning machine you are going to pronounce the VPI as the best in the world :^).

That first experience is a miracle.

albertporter

Owner
Short show report is up at PFO.

I was excited about new tubes being manufactured here in the USA and meeting two bright young ladies who were hoping to contribute to high end audio.

http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue71/theshow14.htm

albertporter

Owner
See how hard it is to come to conclusions at shows.

Agree completely, shows are difficult at best.

albertporter

Owner
Albert missed you at the show. Just curious what you thought of the VAC room with your speakers. Can you place in words differences. I don't know if those speakers or any of the electronics were new or not. The best Jeff

Actually I was sort of in shock. The sound was so different I listened for just a minute and then left. Later I regretted not sticking around and forming an opinion.

albertporter

Owner
I listened with Babybear at his home the first week in November 2013, Arnie was running reissue Gold Lion KT88 output tubes.

When Arnie listened here I was running a set of very high hours Wing C 6550. I suspected they were due for replacement but wanted to get that critical 1500 + hours on the Focal Grande before doing any tube swaps.

I removed the old Wing C and replaced with a new set of reissue Gold Lion about a month or so ago. This was a huge upgrade.

I wondered if the upgrade was tube design or tube age so Monday I pulled the Gold Lion and put in a set of new matched Wing C 6550.

Within a few hours my preference is back to Wing C 6550 and where I will probably stay. I don't know if Arnie's newer VTL Siegfried II is enough different in design to swing the preference or maybe just system and room differences.

In any case an interesting exercise and informative and I'm happy to keep making small improvements.

albertporter

Owner
I think Albert, and his listening friends, have learned how each of these cartridges sound relative to each other in similar, if not identical, conditions, that is, in this particular system context. If Albert were not in a position to keep both, wouldn't this listening exercise be useful in determining which cartridge he prefers for his system?

Probably forgotten this far into my system thread but I also had two Air Tight PC1 and two Air Tight Supreme cartridges and used each pair in various tonearms (and tables) over the past few years.

Tonearm definitely makes a difference but the tests were also spread over several phono stages and three preamps and with Dali Megaline and with my new Focal Grande EM speakers.

The conclusion is just an opinion, really more a preference based on long term listening. I think it's important that the variables did not effect the conclusion but rather supported it over and over.

albertporter

Owner
Rockitman,

I know you're right, I need to order Ultra 5s for the Focal. I've been promising myself to do this for several months and stall for one reason or another.

It's like the Vibraplane ballast that Peterayer told me about. I know it works, I believe him but seems there is always another project in the path.

At least I got the show report typed up and images edited for THE Show and CES. Positive Feedback should have that up this week.

albertporter

Owner
Peter

I understand each cartridge has its own strengths. And I'm certain some listeners prefer one to the other. However, I'm curious if a preference is consistently dependent upon mood, type of music, recording or some other factor. I would also like to know, if you could control a listening test for such subjective things (for example, selecting an recording which is known to be very accurate), if a majority of listeners would agree that one of the cartridges sounds more accurate, or like real music.

This is about taste and preference when you get to that level. Both cartridges are incredibly good and differ or there would be no need to own both.

The Atlas is more resolute and incisive and the Air Tight is more fluid and textured. On a piano the impact and dynamic seem to be better with the Atlas and the wood, energy and warmth better with the Air Tight.

Mind you, these two cartridges are not separated by a chasm a mile wide like the differences possible by selecting two other designs or brands. These are two very capable, very involving MC carts and both have lots of fans.

It will be interesting to read the report from your friend with the SME 30/12 and V-12 combo. As you know I have two SME V-12 and very attached to their performance and personality.

As for an absolute "reference" I depend on live music and master tape.

Exposure live in a given environment sounds very different. A rock concert sounds nothing like live piano music at North Park during Christmas and certainly nothing like Jazz un- amplified and raw on the streets of New Orleans.

I don't think there is "one" sound to live music. It varies as much as the room it's played in and the artist performing. Stereos are much the same, some rooms are easy and some are difficult, we have to do the best we can.

I've got to figure out how to visit Dallas on a Tuesday evening.
You are welcome anytime. I'll make a spot according to your schedule.

albertporter

Owner
Thank you John, it was great seeing you as well.

I am grateful to have the Focal broken in. The last few cable and tube changes pushed their performance to a level far beyond anything I have ever owned before.

I need an invitation to visit and listen to your new system. Rockport speakers are among my all time favorites and I know what you were getting from the big Wilson so I can only imagine.

I agree on the Allnic H5000, it's odd how it brings out the strength of both the Air Tight Supreme and Lyra Atlas yet puts them further apart in performance. They are indeed two different cartridges with different strengths.

If you want to audition the Allnic DHT 5000 in your system I could drive down there or meet half way and let you borrow it for a few days.

albertporter

Owner
Thanks Jeff, you can always reach me through Albert Porter Photo website.

I don't know yet who all will be there. Purist Audio just returned from the Munich and China shows and decided to sit out the Vegas show.

I get with Purist when I can and also Bill Parish (GTT Audio). Bill is frequently with Joe Kabbala (Kubala-Sosna Cables). They are a delight to be with, make me laugh along with great audio discussion.

Also frequently go to dinner with Ralph Karsten (Atma-Sphere) Tri of Triplanar and John Wolf of Classic Audio. Sometimes Dick Diamond and the bunch at YG Acoustics.

We'll figure it out when we meet up. Every night is different as various manufacturers have meetings scheduled. One night is always India food, our favorite place Shalimar on Paradise closed after we enjoyed dinner there for fifteen years but we have a new place that's good too.

albertporter

Owner
Jeff,

I always stop at the NFS room, typically enjoy the light show and relaxed atmosphere. I'm covering THE Show and will be there for opening reception and book signing Wednesday and Friday during lunch.

I usually get with several manufacturers after hours for dinner and drinks, you are welcome to join us.

albertporter

Owner
Johnp
Albert,

Thanks for hosting Mr.Park. I had the opportunity to talk with him and learn more about his wonderful designs. I talked with him at great length about the design of the 5000 DHT phono preamp. It is really amazing what he has done. Designing a phono-pre with DHTs is not easy. After talking with him I realize that the 5000 is really a custom design that is available commercially. It is a one-of-a-kind piece of audio gear. KS is so passionate about tube electronics and he has been that way for years. What an amazing man.

Thank you John, sorry I did not respond earlier.

albertporter

Owner
Thanks Lloydelee21. I plan on calling Stillpoints this week and get a few ordered. I need at least twenty Ultra 5 but may not purchase all at once.

I also want to be sure there is nothing inside the Ultra 5 that can be damaged by boring and threading to 14MM. I have a good relationship with Stillpoints. I'll do this right or not at all.

The VTL amps and MK3 turntable are already 1/4-20 so they will not require adaptors.

albertporter

Owner
I recently acquired Red Base Bendix 6106 rectifiers for the Allnic H5000 DHT. Will test when other changes settle.

Friday night I pulled 24 Wing C 6550 outputs and replaced with (Russian) Gold Lion KT88. The difference was huge but consideration must be made that the 6550 were in the VTL nearly a year before the Focal Grande and the Focal now have near 1500 hours.

Obviously aged tubes do not compete with new out of the box.

Also made a couple of change out of the Allnic H5000s 300B tubes. Allnic provided Electro Harmonix and I purchased Kron big bulb 300B since most people consider the Kron a far superior tube.

The test was surprising, I (and Babybear) both prefer the Electro Harmonix, sometimes price does not predict performance results. I still want to do more rectifier testing. I need to purchase a set of GE 5 Star 6087 to throw in the test with the Bendix 6106.

I'm speaking with a machine shop and got drawings from Focal France so I can custom cut some Stillpoints Ultra 5s to fit the Focal without the flimsy 1/4-20 adaptors. Will post as I make progress.

albertporter

Owner
KS Park of Allnic Audio arrived in Dallas and we welcomed him to our usual Tuesday night music session.

We began Tuesday morning at 9:00 AM with others joining us during the day, then a break for dinner at 5:30 and music until after 10:00 PM.

KS and Music group (Rick Schultz, John Semrad, KS Park and Ka Yeung).

KS and Music group (Jim Rivers, Bob Spence, KS Park, Ka Yeung, John Semrad, back is John Pasetto and Mark Johnson.

I'll post additional images.

albertporter

Owner
Lloydelee21
If you ever do listen to Gryphon's bigger amps, do let us know what you think. IMHO, the closest I can think of is something with the solidity, linearity and absolutely indefatigable power of a Boulder 2060 with the nuance, organic tonality of a CJ reference piece.
Lloyd, the fist time I heard a Gryphon was at CES many years ago when I walked into their room and thought I was listening to tubes. That's never happened before or since. Gryphon are very analog and tube sounding but also powerful and dynamic beyond their power rating.

What stops me is price and support. The big Gryphon is $20K more than VTL or ARC and to my knowledge there is no real presence here in the USA. If something breaks it goes to Europe for service and they are very large and very heavy.

I respect them as contender for best solid state and understand why Andy at Rockport loves them.

albertporter

Owner
Jwm
Albert have you heard the new Stahl Tek Ariaa DAC
I had the top model Stahl Tek in my system a couple of years ago and still cannot get that out of my head. Would have loved to purchase it but it's way out of my budget for digital source.

I've been trying to get the Ariaa for months. It's currently out of stock and the factory demo is always traveling. I ask for it at RMAF but a manufacturer has it on loan.

Dec 2 it's on it's way to an audio show in China. Maybe after THE Show and CES in January I can get my hands on it.

albertporter

Owner
Albert, when are you planning on doing the amps evaluation. Would be great to hear each one and evaluate with a final decision

I did that with preamps, cartridges and tonearms but unlikely with these monster amps. Amp search will be like seeking replacement speakers that resulted in decision to purchase the Focal Grande EM.

I'm looking forward to THE Show and CES in January where I can look and listen. Not ideal conditions but it's possible to learn at these shows.

albertporter

Owner
Peter
Albert, Are you considering any SS amps? I'd think that with the Allnic gear, you might already have plenty of tubes in the signal.

Pass Labs or Gryphon is the solid state quality level I would want but this high end solid state comes at a price $20,000.00 (or more) above the Siegfried II and ARC Ref 750 and less power.

It's a giant leap of faith for a tube guy. I would like to hear one of these top quality solid state amps, but I don't think that's going to happen.

albertporter

Owner
C2300mc275,
The Siegfrieds will be very special indeed - I think that would be my choice (if I had the $$$$$ :). Not sure whether you ever heard the higher end Vitus with focal - I see you are more a valve fan, but the ss class A Vitus is very tasty indeed.
VTL is my likely choice, I love my 750s and the Siegfried is an evolution of that same design.

I had dinner at CES with Vitus, they are good friends with Purist Audio. I hear great things about their amps, similar class with Pass Labs.

albertporter

Owner
Dev,
Wow that sure was a bonus with the umbilical cord
Far more than I would have ever imagined. I'm happy Purist was open to design and build a pair. I got the idea from the success of the Aesthetix umbilical cables which were stunning. Guess there's a lot lost in the transfer between power supply and main unit on all gear.
So what amps are on your short list - that's going to be very educational indeed.
Your VAC Statement 450s are possible, also the new VTL Siegfried II and maybe the new Audio Research Ref 750.

The ARC is probably the most powerful of these but I know less about their sound and don't know anyone who owns a pair. I've heard the VAC at shows and the new VTL at Babybear's home when I visited a few weeks ago. Siegfried was making Incredible sound hooked up to his Rockports.

albertporter

Owner
Dev,
What are the main difference's that stand out between your Atlas and Air Tight.
The Atlas is "cooler" tonal balance, speedy and incisive. The Air Tight has meat on the bones, gets the wood on a Stienway correct and has midrange to die for.
How many hours do you currently have on your speaker now and what is the expected amount for break-in.
Focal says 1500 hours with refinement and subtle gains for months to a year later. As all things high end, the big part is up front and the tiny magic creeps in little by little.

I currently have 1427 hours on the Focal now. I am not hearing big swings in performance like I did earlier.
Recommendation - you need to install some Stillpoints Ultra 5's under those bad boys and see "hear" the differences, I was pleasantly surprised with mine and a few friends speakers whom I have assisted along with reading what other owners of all different types of speakers have to say, one being a pair of Focal Stella's.
I love Stillpoints, use them under my turntable, power supply, amplifiers and plan on adding under the Focal.

They are expensive and obviously I need eight of them so I wanted get the speakers mostly broken in before adding Ultra 5s. I plan on taking the Focal spikes off and resorting back to the wheels and try toe in and out and maybe pull away from the wall before going to 5s.

I did not mention before but since we're on the topic of the Focal. Many posts back I mentioned the awesome improvement the Purist 25th Anniversary AC cord did for the Focal EM power supply. Taking that to the next step I ask Purist to design and build an umbilical cord (4 pin DIN) to go between the EM supply and the Grande Utopia EM section.

This one of a kind umbilical cord was added to the EM power supply last Tuesday night, the combination of these two new cables was stunning. Easily equal to going from a mid line phono or line state to a state of the art model.

What's ahead is to decide on amplifiers. I think my 750s must finally have become the weakest link.

albertporter

Owner
Dev
Hi Albert, I see you been having fun in general and dealing with the taunting speaker break-in which appears to be coming along.
It's amazing how much the Focal have improved. Everything is better and I suspect with time there will be additional gains.

Interesting tale on the VAC phono. I've heard it's supposed to be an excellent performer but If you're happy with the Burmester that's all that matters.
My latest acquisition is the Air Force One table along with Bob Graham's Elite arm - This combo is a game changer for me and I'm very proud to own such instruments.
Anyone would be proud to own state of the art analog like that, I would love to hear that set up some day where I could compare it.
When Bob was at my place he mounted my A90 which is sounding superb but the Atlas is on my short list - I still have my My Sonic Lab Ultra Eminent BC cart mounted on my 12" Reed which I really enjoy - again different flavours.
I like the Lyra Atlas and cannot imagine not liking your My Sonic Ultra Eminent since it's supposed to be like the Air Tight in personality.

My Atlas set up is track force 1.74 grams and loading similar to my Air Tight Supreme. However, Allnic load system is so different the numbers don't easily transfer to other products.

For instance, I'm currently at 70 Ohms and 26 DB gain with the 5000 DHT which is providing excellent dynamics and tonal balance and is wonderfully musical.

Similar performance with my Aesthetix Io would be at it's maximum gain setting and 1000 Ohm load. This example show how load and gain comparisons are difficult, especially when one tries to transfer numbers among various state of the art phono.

albertporter

Owner
Unoear
Hey DJ from Downunder,

Munchies...the dennesen is always spot-on, no slippage or variation; it is a tried and true superior solution to the others.

An advantage the Mint protractor has is it's designed for a single specific tonearm, turntable and cartridge.

The Dennesen Soundtractor is universal and relies on the sharp spike to locate tonearm center to be perfectly accurate. In some cases that's not easy to determine depending on the housing and design of the tonearm.

There is also the "slop" for the spindle hole which varies between different turntable designs. The Mint protractor is ground specifically for the turntable you specify, removing another tiny variable.

I'm not saying the Dennesen is bad, just that no set up tool is perfect. I have four or five of the Mint Protractors, a Wally Tractor, a Dennesen the Uni from Dertonearm and a couple of others.

It's good to compare against each other, I often find tiny errors when forced to rethink the setup.

albertporter

Owner
Sirlordcomic
Does the Oyaide mat screw with azimuth? Is the stylus subtly riding downhill?

I think this issue is possibly made worse with a unipivot arm where the tonearm follows gravity to remain level but the LP is altered out from under it.

albertporter

Owner
Drajreynolds
For those who alter VTA for each LP I would encourage you to conduct a little experiment. Using a single point triangulated protractor (e.g. Dennesen Soundtractor, Acoustical Systems UNI-Protractor or SMARTractor) and your preferred target tangential curve, set the overhang with the arm tube parallel with respect to a 180 gram LP (not uncommon these days). Now raise or lower the VTA as you normally would before going back and checking the overhang using your protractor. Has the overhang changed, even slightly, with the change in VTA? If so, what are the geometric consequences of this change in overhang (and by extension effective length)?

Exactly, that's an issue that cannot be addressed, therefore making one parameter better and (possibly) another worse.

I typically set up my two tonearms for 180 gram LPs, changing only occasionally for thicker or thinner records. The exception is testing turntable mats so conclusion is the mat rather than setup.

By the way, you described the problem perfectly. A lot of people don't think about this.

albertporter

Owner
Peter,

Sometimes, especially when testing to be fair to the turntable mat in question (as above).

For normal playback I don't do it so much. My way to change VTA on the V-12 is count the number of turns, either up or down on the threaded VTA riser device.

It would be much easier if there were a numerical display but you know the design does not allow for that.

albertporter

Owner
Thanks Albert, how did the 1 degree incline system work?

Honestly I don't know how one would test that unless you had two identical Oyaide mats. One with the 1º incline design and one without.

What is claimed is it corrects the warpage of the LP and makes the stylus track with greater stability. Most of my LPs are not warped so this may be lost in my test.

What I find in all these tests are the mat material makes the biggest difference, once all adjustments to VTA is correct.

albertporter

Owner
I've done extensive testing of turntable mats and that includes the Oyaide MJ-12 mat and matching center weight, the Oyaide MTB-HW.

Like all mats this one has a signature, it's brighter and more lively than most others especially compared to the Micro Seiki Cu-180 or Boston Carbon Fiber.

I loaned the MJ-12 to a fellow that bought one of our Panzerholz Technics plinths, so he could compare it and he ask to keep it. I've thought about buying another but never did.

Appearance wise, used with Technics MK3 it's a very beautiful combination. The holes in the Oyaide show the highly polished copper platter of the Technics platter underneath, contrasted by the super fine Oyaide (aluminum) mat.

I tried the MJ-12 with at least six center weights or clamps and got varying results. I did not find the Oyaide MTB-HW center weight any better match for the Oyaide mat, in fact I preferred several other brands.

This is all opinion. In another system with different tone arm, cartridge and turntable your final choice could vary wildly.

albertporter

Owner

Hi Albert, how would you compare the two arms. I know you upgraded the 312s to a v12

This is one of those situations where you are so pleased with performance you assume nothing could be better. That's what I thought about the SME 312S and at one time had two of them on my MK3.

I also ran many other tonearms including Micro Seiki MAX, Audiocraft 4400, Talea and had on loan the 12" Graham Phantom. Needless to say with all these arms there are plus and minus and I think a lot has to do with matching up with the perfect cartridge.

I've had dozens of cartridges and pretty much settled on three that I hold most dear, Air Tight Supreme, Lyra Atlas and Koetsu Coralstone. I have two of these now and go back and forth depending on the LP.

With the two cartridges I favor the SME V12 is perfect for my Focal Grande Utopia, same as with the Dali Megaline. The V12 sounds much like the 312S except greater strengths of the things I love.

The V12 tracks better regardless of material. It's less distortion in the LP inner grooves yet has better resolution, detail and separation. The separation is not so much soundstage and depth, but the ability to unravel complex passages making it easier to understand vocals and hear into individual instruments.

Both of these arms are extremely controlled. Some people say dark but I think they are just so neutral there is nothing ringing along with the music.

If you have a 312S, enjoy it, it's very difficult to beat. If you can afford the V12 it is better.

albertporter

Owner
System edited: Added KLAudio to my system. Added image of KLAudio and Audio Desk together.

albertporter

Owner
System edited: Added wide view of MK3 and Studer, replaces previous image. Added good close up of my black Allnic H5000 DHT.

albertporter

Owner
Babybear,

Thanks again for driving down to visit me and I am glad you enjoyed what you heard. I had a great time meeting you and I look forward to hearing your system very soon.

Thanks for being such a gracious host.

albertporter

Owner
Elescher
Hi Albert,

Regarding the Ammara/Audivarna/JRiver preference; .... bought the Bryston music player...I prefered the sound of Amarra. ...the sound quality with Bryston was transformational.

If I have an opportunity to audition the Bryston I'll certainly give it a try. I only have the Mac to go by and have not even pushed performance with a great DAC yet.

albertporter

Owner
I agree what's already in there may be best but we will never know unless we listen.

The RCA I bought are so cheap it's worth having and I plan on trying them and a couple of 300B type to see if there is any change.

By the way, I just drove back from visiting Babybear (Arnie), man his system is out of this world. Love the Rockport speakers and he has the newer version of my VTL amps, Allnic phono and direct drive table with Lyra. That made it very easy to acclimate myself and fall into, musically.

albertporter

Owner
I spoke to David on this same topic and got the same data. I already have a pair of Kron 300B tubes on order and will try them when they arrive.

If they provide no performance upgrade I can sell them here at Audiogon. I ordered a pair of 5Y3 rectifiers off Ebay last night, some bottom getter 1956 RCA. They were only $34.00 so no risk involved and a nice thing to have on hand.

I also bought a quad of Phillips brown base 5R4 from Kevin at Upscale. They are beautiful but again, I have not tried them.

I need to ask KS about the 6106 Bendix, it's a tube I had hoped would work and wanted to try.

Last, there is a loose plan in place for KS to fly here for a visit. Probably after Thanksgiving. I know you live far away but are welcome to visit anytime during the few days he's here in DFW area.

albertporter

Owner

Charles1dad
Albert,
The HF CTI-1Ultimate is genuinely superb and I'd be surprised if you aren't smitten by it. I use it as my digital cable and find it stunningly "natural" in character.

With so little listening time, I don't yet know it's capabilities or where it will wind up after break in. I may also need to revisit the Lyra Atlas loading and VTA.

I will say it's very high resolution and super quick. Coupled up with the Lyra Atlas it might be too much of a good thing. That's why I mentioned possibly moving it over to the arm with the Air Tight Supreme.

I'm in no rush, will do a lot of relaxed listening over the next few weeks.

albertporter

Owner
Peterayer
Albert, what cable does the High Fidelity replace?

It's in place of Purist 25th Anniversary DIN to RCA, an all silver interconnect. The best from Purist Audio.

No decision yet if it will remain, or the Purist will go back in or perhaps the HF CTI-1 Ultimate would be better match with the (warmer) Air Tight Supreme.

albertporter

Owner
I should also mention, I got my new High Fidelity CT1 Ultimate phono cable from Rick Schultz, terminated as DIN to RCA.

I put it on the SME arm that has the Lyra Atlas rather than one with the Air Tight Supreme and put a few hours on it (mostly on Saturday).

I'm looking forward to everyone listening on Tuesday and providing feedback.

albertporter

Owner
Hello Christopher,

KL Audio arrived but has a problem, I did not get any LPs cleaned for comparison. Another KL ships on Monday (tomorrow) if all goes as expected.

I'm here for Tuesday night music but leave town to drive to a friends home on Wednesday and enjoy his system and let him audition my Allnic 5000 DHT.

I wish the DHT had more hours but as you know, it's already showing up every other phono we've had here without even swapping the factory provided rectifiers or 300B tubes.

albertporter

Owner
Hello Whart,

I always stop and speak with Mark at shows, he exudes positive energy and obviously loves music. My kind of person. The long conversation in the hallway with Vytas was very enlightening, some engineer types won't share their opinions.

Obviously I did not hear the DR tubes but I'm hoping to hear a report back from Avalon on that topic.

As both of us have stated, the Veloce has incredible resolution. I would like to revisit that test now that I have the stunning Allnic H5000 DHT phono stage. What a combo that could be.

I should have the KL later this week and I'll begin by cleaning one of the many LPs already sent through my Audio Desk. The Audio Desk is the most effective cleaning machine I've ever used and I've had most of the top models. If the KL does a better job it will be cause for celebration. If it's only as good and no need to add the cleaning fluid that will make it a heads up contender at the least.

albertporter

Owner
I just ordered the KL Audio Ultrasonic record cleaning machine.

I can hardly wait to run a few LPs through it and hear what it does. My friend Myles B. Astor gave it a very positive review at PFO so I have little doubt about it's performance.

albertporter

Owner
Fplanner2000

Hi Albert-
Congrats on the new Focals. I tried to catch you in Denver at the RMAF, but missed you getting into an elevator.
I'm sorry, but that happened a lot. I had so much to cover I was pretty much in a dead run the whole time.
I was at your house a few summers ago with Art S. and we listened to your Dalis, which sounded great.
The Dali did sound great, they were excellent speakers and I spent ten years getting everything out of them I could.

Now that you have the Focals and they are probably somewhat broken in, can you compare them to the Dalis? I heard the Stellas at RMAF and they were nice, but not the level I'm looking for.

The Focal Grande EM are further along at four months than my Dali were at that same time. The Grande are providing far better resolution and integration from top to bottom than I've ever had. They are wider bandwidth on both ends of the spectrum and portray a tighter and more accurate portrayal of instruments, especially when a lot of things are going on at one time.

According to Focal they are still several hundred hours away from maximum performance and there are likely a few more adjustments on location that will prove vital to overall image and bass performance.

As for RMAF, the Stella is not quite the speaker the Grande is but even more important is the difference in setup, music source and room treatment. I'm convinced that if I had those Focal Stella in my own room it would easily defeat what was presented at RMAF. Considering the difference between the Stella and my Grande I'm positive the difference would be greater still.

You're welcome, with or without Art to come listen again. I think you would be pleased with my current sound which is quite a bit better than the Dali. This comment based not only on my conclusions but also by 100% of my long time group members who have heard both, countless times.

albertporter

Owner

Whart
Albert, is the Veloce the original one or the current (Lithio) model? I heard both in my system, and there was a pretty big gulf between the two.

This was older model but returned to Veloce for upgrade. At RMAF I spoke with Vytas Viesulas (Designer of Veloce) about this exact unit and he confirmed its performance was equal to the latest version.

The new owner in Belgium has not reported back to me about how it sounds in his system but I listened to it here for a few days before shipping off. It's probably the highest resolution preamp I've ever heard and certainly the highest resolution I've ever had in my system.

Lot's of deep bass too, no?
Not more so than my current preamp but the Veloce is certainly more resolution. I'm a bit uncomfortable with tonal balance, reminds me of the first version Audio Research that used this tube. I have great interest in this preamp but also thinking about a modification that might put it 100% with me.

All that being said, I LOVE it's construction, chassis density and overall fit and finish. The Veloce is built like a tank and the volume controls are pure elegance on both the faceplate and the remote.

I also love the fact you don't need an expensive AC cable. There is essentially no difference between a Mono Price computer cable and one of my $9K cables. This is the first and only product that this EVER happened with.

The elegance, advantage and simplicity of battery power !

Take it off the grid and remove the problems addressed (or cured) by filtered AC cables, grounding and AC regeneration devices. Deduct what these would cost from the Veloce retail price and it becomes a very positive factor in the buying decision.

albertporter

Owner
Looks like I have the sensors reversed in description of the two Sony models, otherwise comments apply.

I wish Sony would build 24 to 36M pixel full frame camera in style of the new RX1 but with interchangeable lenses. Basically a Leica from Sony with the sensor they supply to Nikon (yes, that's where Nikon gets their sensor).

Maybe this will happen in the future.

albertporter

Owner
Jwm,

$3000.00 is too much for a non interchangeable lens design. If the RX100 had been offered with standard lens and a couple of other options it's a package I might invest in.

The RX1 has the small chip and tends to have high ASA problems with color and noise (like the tiny Canon) although the design is beautiful and Sony is offering discounts.

I still have my Sony NEX5(APS C format) which I'm comfortable with having lived with Nikon D2Xs for years. This format strikes a balance between large and small sensor and manages low noise up to 1600 and beyond (depending on range of light).

APSC compared

My standard is the Nikon D800 full frame which is bulky compared to Sony RX100 but I have unlimited choices in both fixed and zoom lenses in every focal length and quality.

I go to the NFS (Not For Sale) room every year. I'm always tempted by the wine but must wait until photos are complete before I can enjoy myself. I dine every night with various high end manufacturers and you are welcome to join us if you wish. I have a rent car so it's a free ride away from crowded dining on the strip.

albertporter

Owner
I should be able to do some comparative listening this weekend and post my opinion.

Are you going to test with the Stahl~Tek DAC?

On a side note, I just purchased a Veloce LS1 used here at Audiogon for a friend in Europe. I only got involved because the seller ad did not provide for Euro sales.

Anyway I've only had it a day so it's likely still settling from shipping but man is this a great preamplifier!

SUPER dense chassis and construction, you can't tell those things at CES or RMAF just looking at it. Handling it and hooking it up I have a whole new perspective of its quality, construction and design.

albertporter

Owner
System edited: Added images and description of new Allnic DHT5000 Phono.

albertporter

Owner
That's a magnificent system! It's also really cool to see the group picture. There are several of us here in Blacksburg that get together like that too. Your music group reminds me of ours.

I think our group is the most important thing in my system. One member is a guy I met when I sold high end audio back in 1969 ! Yes, a friend who has shared the love of music for 44 years.

My opinion is music should be shared, that's probably why I never liked headphones (except when I'm alone and traveling). Having other music lovers keeps everything honest. I encourage everyone to comment on sound and they do. Several fussed about the Focal Grande when they were new and frankly with only a few hours on them, they were pretty hard and uninvolving.

Now everyone is getting into them and complimenting me on the sound, it's nice to have a sounding board and these guys all have high end systems and good ears.
There was an audio show that had big Focal Utopias with Class D amps; perhaps one of the Munich shows if I remember right. It's a great idea that makes me want to experience your system's performance all the more.
The big VTL with my new DHT phono are taking resolution way up the scale but holding on to musicality. I get closer each week to the ultimate warmth and involvement I earned with 10 years work on the Dali. The difference is the Focal blows away anything I've ever owned in the resolution and reality department. I just need to keep honing the presentation so it does chills down my spine on demand :^).

If you ever travel to the DFW area you are welcome to come listen with us. My wife turns the house over to us crazy guys on Tuesday but I can probably get you in another day as well with a bit of warning.

You have a great system as well, I would love to hear it too. There is always something to be learned from every good system.

albertporter

Owner

Jwm
How did everyone like your new phono stage last night. I know it needs breakin, but you can still tell right away if its great and will only get better. When are you going to do the Stahl~Tek and other digital shoot outs. Jeff
In my opinion the session last night was a milestone. The sound was startlingly dynamic and resolved and remained focused at high volume even though it had only one day of break in.

Rick Schultz (Hi Fidelity Cables) loaned me his silver H5000 when he returned to Canada to visit family. If not for him I would have never gone for this piece.

Good question about the Stahl~Tek. I want to try the less expensive version that's designed to work with Mac and Win servers.

Right now the crew from Purist is in Russia doing some audio show. I know they just did the show in Munich and when they return from Russia RMAF is literally a day or two later.

I'm looking to do photos of the smaller DAC and get a demo at the same time. My favorite digital was the top DAC and transport from Stahl~Tek but the $73K price tag stopped me in my tracks.

Lets hope the much less expensive DAC provides the 90% performance of big brother that's promised. That would be great.

albertporter

Owner
Jwm
Albert, I have Audivarna and seems to work real well.
I have only heard positive things about Audivarna but have not tried it.

The JRiver software is trial without obligation. Should you decide to test I would love to read a report of what each offers.

I downloaded the JRiver iPad software from iTunes. The app is filled with features not found on Apple Remote for iPad. It loads fast and priced reasonably.

What pleases me most about JRiver is the cost to performance ratio. I honestly don't understand how there can be enough people download this and pay the $49.00 (or whatever) to offset all the labor involved.

albertporter

Owner
Elescher,

I would very much like to read your impression if that test is done.

I currently have newest version of Channel D and I had Amarra, but not a recent (improved) version.

albertporter

Owner
I love JRiver 19 for Mac. I suspect it's caught up with the Windows version now because it sounds very good.

I don't know how stable it will be long term but the JRiver people seem pretty focused on making everything right and releasing upgrades when called for.

Anyone else using this?

albertporter

Owner
My black Allnic DHT5000 phono arrived today. I've got it powered up in anticipation of Tuesday night music with our group.

It sure is pretty and since Rick Schultz just returned home from a trip he'll want his silver one back. (Perfect timing :-)

Oh, and JRiver 19 is now available for Mac. I downloaded a copy to my Mac Mini. I'm transferring music from the outboard drive to JRiver library as I type.

albertporter

Owner
Lotus340r.

Allnic has a head amp that goes with the DHT5000 or is it the existing Nuvistor version you're referring to?

It is amazing sound, the DHT5000, I had absolutely NO desire to replace the H3000 until I heard this thing.

albertporter

Owner
I agree Fred, a second Audio Desk for rinse only is the ideal solution for that, and I never go beyond 80 to 100 LPs per fresh fluid loading, even with new LPs.

If any were used or bargain finds, far fewer. To keep from ruining a fresh mix of fluid, I still use Premiere on grungy LPs to remove silicone spray or whatever some well meaning person applied to "clean" the LP previously.

Like you I found all my new LPs benefit greatly from cleaning and to be fair It's audible with VPI, Keith Monks and other brands as well. I think the Audio Desk does a better job (sounds better) and the convenience is beyond compare. I washed more records the first month with the Audio Desk than previous two years with any other machine.

Being able to press the button and go away is priceless. I hate standing over and offering hands on for any length of time not to mention the noise most machines make.

albertporter

Owner

Wonderful comments on the Allnic H5000...guess I need to get to dallas soon! On my way back to the USA soon...will try and call you over the weekend...

Sorry to be out of pocket. Patti's mom had me working Thursday on through this weekend non stop, finding her a new car.

We finished about 7:00 last night. I had forgotten how much hassle this was but she and my wife are happy so I'm temporarily the hero. I'll call you if I don't hear from you.

albertporter

Owner
Still in NY, trying to get this house sold. Will be back in Austin, whether or not sold in NY, by January. Missing the hell out of central Tx.

You will be very close to Audiogon member John Frech at that point. Very nice guy and long term friend. We listened at each others homes frequently when he lived in Dallas.
Will keep in your loop, Albert. And, I promised the Rockitman I'd come visit at some point too- he's a few hours north of me by fast car.

Christian's (Rockitman) system looks impressive, you should take him up on that before you move away.

albertporter

Owner

Whart
If your experience with the DHT is anything like the H3000, it should keep getting better over time, as you well know. Do you think rectifier tube rolling in the power supply of the DHT would yield improvements as it does with the H3000?

The rectifier tube in the H5000 has a replacement version made by Bendix, according to John Semrad friend and listening group attendee. It that's fact, it could be a huge improvement. It was a very important change for Allnic H3000 going to USA Tung Sol in place of the OEM tube and I think you know, having made some of those tests yourself.
My system has never sounded better using the H3000 (in combo with the Veloce version 2), so I can only imagine at this point.

Just because we like it does not mean it would wow you. In my system it's pretty cut and dried and you are welcome to come compare the two if you have time.

If you already call Austin your home, we are only 45 minutes apart via SWA. I'll come get you at Love Field if you have time for a visit.

albertporter

Owner
Peterayer
Albert, that sounds like quite the fun evening of listening. I want to make it out to join you all one day.

We sometime go crazy, play nutty music and even joke records like Bob and Ray and laugh out loud. The whole listing session thing would turn into a giant ego trip and be boring as hell if we all sat around with our head in a vice listening for perfect sound. It cant' be had but laughter and fun keep us trying.

We all know perfect sound is impossible and to retain the strength to keep up the effort for better sound there has to be a release.
I'm interested in Jlsemrad's comment about the Atlas and Supreme with the two different phono amps. What is it about the 5000 that makes it a better match for the Supreme? Could you describe how the 3000 and 5000 sound with the Atlas and Supreme and what the differences are?

Understand that first of all the DHT5000 is likely not broken in. It's sound is more resolute and focused so the strength of speed, focus and incisiveness of the Lyra is not needed, the phono provides. Now the Air Tight's texture and "perfect" color come though with speed previously reserved for Lyra with H3000.

Finally, have the Focals changed your impressions of the two cartridges and their differences? The system could be more transparent now, so the character of the cartridges may be more apparent.

No, the Focal actually have much of the same strength of the Dali Megaline but less distortion and more resolution. I have pretty much stuck with the strength of the Air Tight all along, as did Dr. Bob Spence who is another of my regular listening panel.

albertporter

Owner
Johnp
I thought Albert's system sounded wonderful. It had an effortless quality I like. There was a ton of information and didn't sound hard or etched. I've heard the 5000 in two systems and both times, I've really liked what I heard. I'm a big fan of DHTs. I was so impressed with the noise floor of the 5000. Getting DHTs to behave in phono amp isn't easy.

Thanks John, I assume the other time you heard was at Rick Schultz house. I owe him big time for loaning me his DHT.

Seems we all heard much the same things, describing a bit different here and there but everyone in agreement which is not easy when starting from an already wonderful phono as base for comparison.

albertporter

Owner
Rockitman
Here's a tid bit from the past...I bought your Coralstone. Still my favorite cart. I am also running a Tiger Eys..60 hours so far and I will soon have the Urushi Bamboo Dynavector XV-1t.

I'm embarrassed that I did not remember that, especially since we've been trading text here in the forum.

As I said before, the Coralstone is amazing, guys in my group mention it frequently while we're listening. It's the only cartridge I miss and I've heard a lot of different high end carts.

What's amazing about the Coralstone is the blend between the midrange and highs and the extreme top end. Some Koetsu carts have blunted highs, even to the point of sounding over warm or rolled off.

I don't know how Koetsu did it but the Coralstone has high frequencies like the Air Tight or Lyra but even sweeter yet retains the magic midrange that they are known for.

I can only imagine how great it would sound with the DHT.

albertporter

Owner
Rockitman
Take my new TT, the TechDAS. I bought it w/o hearing it. The engineering case and execution was too compelling for me to resist.

I remember seeing it at one of the shows, maybe CES last year? The history of that table, the design and execution read like the perfect formula for state of the art.

No way to tell at a show but I'm envious just seeing the images.

albertporter

Owner
:-)

The H5000 is the real deal, it's really special and punches right about at its weight blah, blah, blah...
Jlsemrad (Answers | This Thread)

Don't forget "My jaw hit the floor."

For those that don't know Jisemrad is one of my close friends and the craftsman that builds our plinths. When all of us meet for music we quote over the top audio lingo and stupid comments while the group listens.

One of my favorites is to play something like Bob Wills and the Texas Playboys and yell out "We only play audiophile music here."

Just keeping it real. Sure we want to improve the sound but my friends and the music are what keep the system important. We do have fun and laughter is very important.

albertporter

Owner
I've pretty much decided on purchasing the H5000.

The new speakers did make it easy to hear the improvement just as it would be for you with Wilson Alexandria and Pass Labs.

albertporter

Owner
Imdoc
I would say categorically that
1) It sounded absolutely wonderful last nite
2) It sounded the best I have heard from his current system
Thanks Bob, that means a lot coming from you.

I had to change quite a few things when I switched from Sound Lab to Dali and I expect the same evolution now with Focal. All were wonderful speakers but required time to reach their maximum level.

The performance last night was equal or beyond anything I've ever owned. To reach that level with a new speaker in only three months is gratifying and encouraging. I know they will be even better with a bit more effort.

albertporter

Owner
Thanks for your impressions Albert. How is the noise performance compared to the H3000...is it just as good ?

The 5000 seems to be as quiet as the H3000 which is excellent in that regard. Both are quieter than my (previous) Aesthetix even with super select NOS tube throughout.

I put the 5000 though my own personal torture test. If I'm going to own something I don't want to overlook any issues or problems. The torture test is rapping on the two chassis with a wood dowel rod and see if the tubes crackle or microphonic. Answer is no, they seem immune.
Are the loading options the same ? Currently I load Koetsu at 500 ohms with my active Pass XP-25 phono stage. Can you get near that loading value with the on board gain and step up transformer options ?

Loading is funny, 500 is correct for Pass XP-25 and 1000 is correct for Aesthetix Io. For the Allnic H3000 the number is more like 117. The reason for these diverse options is the design and input circuit.

I don't have the owners book for the H5000, it's so new it's being printed. I think this is among the first ever delivered (about 6 weeks ago).

That being said, there are four control knobs, two near the input and two on top near the front that adjust EQ. I quickly found what worked well for the Lyra Atlas and Air Tight Supreme without much effort.

I love Koetsu and had them in my system for years, I sold my Coralstone to help finance some of the recent upgrades. Having adjusted Koetsu along side these other two I feel confident one of the available settings will give you the best sound you've ever gotten.

I'm listening to it right now and it's improved again since last night.

albertporter

Owner

Rockitman,
Big night tonight ! The H5000 put through the central scrutinizer test. I can't wait for the results.
I hope some of the others in attendance respond here too. The H5000 has very few hours of break in compared to my H3000 but I've decided pretty much 100% that this is my new phono.

I had my Aesthetix Io for a decade and the Allnic H3000 coming up on 4 years and now jumping to the H5000. This is fast for me, I was surprised and impressed.

I know I will be ask so I'll try to explain the sound. It was not what I thought it would be. I expected "fat" or warm sound, maybe a bit romantic.

What I got was 3D depth and width, precision timing and speed in the highs. Totally unprepared to hear the tiny tap from a drum stick on a high hat with such resolution it was believable as live.

SPEED, I did not expect speed, this thing is lighting fast and has beautiful color and tone but without superficial warmth or blurring.

The final cut tonight was, Wadin' from Horace Parlan "Speakin' My Piece" (Blue Note 1960), one of my all time favorite Jazz cuts. The horns were more like horns than I've ever heard and pristine clean with just the right amount of bite to sound live.

It was clean like really top notch solid state but with character of tone that nothing else but a huge tube power supply does. The sound was powerful and filled with tiny details I've not gotten before and the energy filled the room without sounding like it was coming from the speakers.

No doubt the Focal Grande is doing the heavy lifting, It's a wonderful, remarkable speaker but if the software were not near perfect and the phono better than before it could not have pulled this off.

Sound wise it "maybe' is not quite as much weight in the percussion of a piano stroke on mid bass frequencies. That's being picky and I'm pretty certain I heard the same with my H3000 before it got enough hours on the transformers.

I was given a few more days to play and tomorrow morning I'm plugging the reverse RIAA device in so I can feed Oppo into the H5000 and rack up some hours.

albertporter

Owner
Albert wow half way there in break in, your in for a treat when you hit 1500 hours. Enjoy my friend.

It's already making me happy. This Labor Day weekend the wife and I had opportunity to watch a few movies and the Focal were playing the sound track. Even with just a movie the speaker is amazing, I'm really growing to love it more each day as it evolves.

By the way I hope you registered for CES before September as now it is 100.00. I checked on flights from Detroit and so far the prices are a lot higher this year than last. I usually get a hotel and air package. Most of the time I stay at an hotel just off the strip near the Venetian. I always rent a car so no hassles with cabs.

Identical to what I do. I have not looked into packages for CES but need to. And yes, I registered for my badge before cutoff and saved the fee.

albertporter

Owner
Rockitman
Is there a reason you don't have the tube/ gel cages over the 300B tubes n the power supply ?

Rick was testing Electro Harmonix 300B tubes just before I picked it up, he was pressed for time and did not get the tube covers back on.

You're right about the cage, it has shielding and could possibly sound better in place. If he attends the Tuesday night meeting I'll ask him to bring them and we listen both ways.

You have a good eye to have caught that :-).

albertporter

Owner
Whart
Albert, what tubes are on the main chassis of the DHT? They look like 300's. Vintage?

The Allnic DHT 5000 phono was designed by KS Park using the seventy year old Telefunken RS242 gain tubes. Not only were these difficult to find, good ones were typically $500 a piece and four required.

The preliminary units with Telefunken revealed the magic of the design but wanting to maintain the reliability they are know for, they sourced this tube to be redesigned and remanufactured. The one I have on loan has these new tubes and it is absolutely quiet and no microphonics. Extraordinary accomplishment considering the gain factor.

The 300B tubes you identified are in the power supply. They are new production from Kron Audio. I assume other new production and NOS 300B interchange, I'm going to gather as much information as possible and continue listening.

The Focal have moved mountains this past couple of weeks. A manufacturer was here last week that heard them a month ago and his comments were that I has surpassed all previous performance including the ten year evolution of the Dali with custom crossover.

As mentioned before, I learned absolute break in point for Focal Grande EM is 1500 hours, I just passed 828 hours, so there is more to look forward to. I'm very grateful to be where I am after only few months work.

albertporter

Owner
Jfrech
Wow, wish i could make it this tuesday...will be curious to read your thoughts soon !

John, if you can make it I'll come pick you up at the airport. I would love to have your input.

albertporter

Owner
Rockitman
Serious eye candy. Considering my equipment is silver, that is the color choice I would go with. I can't wait to hear more detailed impressions after you get some time in listening.

I'm going to resist comments until Tuesday night session with the group.

albertporter

Owner

Rick was kind enough to loan me his new Allnic 5000 DHT. I got it in my system less than an hour ago. I prefer black but the silver finish is pretty.

First impression, less than fifteen minutes it's doing some amazing things.

I have the power supply sitting on an "apple box," a photo studio prop made of plywood for miscellaneous use.

Not an ideal power supply platform but if it wins in this quick set up, it can obviously be made better.

DHT Phono

albertporter

Owner
Rockitman
I do wonder how much better the 5000 sounds.

Rocket, thanks to your questions, I got in touch with Rick Schultz. He already has his Allnic 5000 and offered to loan it to me this coming Friday.

I hope to still have it for Tuesday night music group, where multiple people can listen and agree or disagree on what it offers.

albertporter

Owner
Jfrech

The Allnic is about a 1/3 of the price...and doesn't need a extra set of interconnects for the outboard transformer...so that counts for something !
True, I forgot about that. Most of the top contender interconnect cables today make that an expensive addition.

I wonder why Ypsilon did not design their transformer as a direct plugin to the chassis? Either inside or via a machined out place on the rear.

Either spot would make for shorter signal path and remove one more cable. A cable that's operating on MC signal levels.

albertporter

Owner
The H3000 is my reference, I choose it in a side by side comparison with half a dozen other pieces. This was done on my Dali speakers that I no longer own but I doubt the outcome would be different with my current speakers.

I don't want to name all the brands we tested but I'll cut to the finish and say the other brand that was superb was the Ypsilon.

My listening group sat in on the final choice and Jfrech who posts here at Audiogon was present as well. I think the final consensus was about 50/50 split vote between the Allnic and Ypsilon.

Both have a house sound and neither are perfect. There are things I prefer about each.

albertporter

Owner
Rocketman,

I have not heard it, I'm hoping Rick Schultz of High Fidelity Cables gets his soon and I can hear it. He lives close to me and we listen together sometimes.

If it's better than the H3000 I'll be interested.

albertporter

Owner
Jwm, Thank you for the well wishes.

I spoke to Focal shortly after posting those comments. I ask if they knew how many hours were required to guarantee maximum performance. Seems it depends on music complexity, sound pressure level and even the listeners observation.

Bottom line, it's complete when improvement stops, or at least is no longer significant. In other words, the point of diminishing returns has set in.

I'll say right now, I've very pleased with what I'm getting but I'm going to hang in there for at least another 250 hours so I know the answer to this.

It will help me and hopefully someone else as well.

albertporter

Owner
This morning the Focal Grande EM reached 750 hour break in point.

Right now I'm listening to Wynton Marsalis, "The Magic Hour" (2004), an amazing piece of music and the Focal are showing off their musicality, texture and integration like never before.

Most of this achieved this last hundred hours with important milestones at several points during break in.

albertporter

Owner
Arnie, I agree completely.

The only hope for computer based music is the new high resolution files and downloads. Those files are potentially superior to CD and not available on SACD. A lot of music falls into that category so there is some promise there.

If it turns out silver disc is "always" superior to hard drive based music then the computer can be a learning tool due to it's huge music base.

If you fall in love with a special piece of music you can buy the silver disc and justify the investment and space, make each tune earn it's space.

I'm basically an analog guy and even the best digital I've heard, including the Stahl~Tek was third place in my system. Tape #1, LP #2 and digital last.

That being said there are countless tunes on digital only, so it's important to have a way to do justice to them.

albertporter

Owner

Thanks Arnie, now I need to get the DAC.

The demo unit is in the hands of a manufacturer that used it at the last show. I hope I don't have to wait until RMAF to get it.

If it turns out silver disc is superior format I would not be surprised, the sound with Stahl~Tek DAC that was so great was with it's matching CD transport. Later when I heard it with a Windows machine and hard drive based it was not nearly as good.

Since then there is a new way to rip files and Stahl~Tek says is a major breakthrough. I'm hoping that plus the new software from JRiver will make the Mac Mini more competitive. There is no way I can collect 6 TB worth of CDs, I don't know what the count would be but I suspect in the thousands.

albertporter

Owner
Would be most interested in your feedback on such a shootout!
Every participant should post their own impression and If we listen on all three systems separating DAC performance should be easier.

Getting the DAC from Stahl~Tek is the first step and they don't have a delivery date for me.

John and Arnie, do either of you use computer (high resolution downloads) as source or silver disc only?

When the time comes I can bring the Mac Mini, it's absolutely tiny and easy to set up. We can compare DACs with it and whatever else is compatible.

By then I should have over 6TB of music so finding matching software to compare should be easy.

albertporter

Owner
Jfrech
Albert, I remember listening to the Stahl Tek a few years ago with you. It was pretty darn special, one of those listening sessions that you definitely don't forget...and you and I are both really analog guys...so that's saying something about a digital piece.
I agree, it's firmly stuck in my head as a once in a lifetime experience with digital.

My hope is to operate from a Mac Mini. Is there a proven tie breaker in that mode, a DAC that works best from USB input from a computer?

The Stahl~Tek we loved was sourced from it's matching transport, regular Red Book CDs. If their new less expensive DAC sounds as good with a computer it would be a top contender.

The benefit of computer is HD Tracks and other high res downloads are offering popular music at higher than Red Book resolution. Any that are not currently available can be ripped to computer from CD until something better comes along.

What would be ideal is John, Arnie and I meet at one or more of our homes and compare several of these against each other. I'm trying hard to get the new Stahl~Tek DAC for trial and if I do I'm open to drive to Austin or whatever works for everyone.

albertporter

Owner
Excellent information. My sincere thanks to both of you.

albertporter

Owner
Jwm,

That's certainly appealing on cost, it will be difficult to listen to any of this which makes me nervous.

Maybe some of these will show up used where they are a safe investment in case I don't like what I hear. The only reason for my sudden interest is the Mac Mini and my (soon to be) huge library of music.

Interesting comment about the Playback Designs. I have never had one in my room but the fact you owned one and preferred the Modright make it a valid recommendation.

We all know there are things on CD and downloads that don't exist on LP so I'm hoping for something that more than just acceptable.

albertporter

Owner
Arnie,

I'll look at your system thread and copy down those MSB components and look into this.

I wish we lived near each other so one weekend we could try some of this out.

albertporter

Owner
Arnie,

The new Stahl Tek is projected retail $13K and promised to be 95% performance of the flagship ($35,000) Stahl Tek developed several years ago.

I had the top Stahl Tek CD transport and DAC in my system a couple of years back. Our mutual friend John Frech was here for that audition.

I don't know how he feels but for me it was the only time in my life I got truly excited about digital. I was actually running around looking for CDs to play.

That being said the new Stahl Tek is not available yet so I don't know if performance is as claimed.

I assume the MSB combo in your system is the one you choose as best performance?

albertporter

Owner
Well, that actually makes good sense. I guess I could contact Modright and see what it costs. Right now I'm thinking the new, less expensive Stahl~Tek that's about to go into production.

You say Modright mod Oppo beats most high end players. Have you made that comparison yourself or is that what others claim?

albertporter

Owner
Jwm
I also have an Oppo 105 that I sent to Modright for his tube update. I can't tell you how good it becomes as a two channel cd player.

I've struggled with that idea ever since the first posts here at Audiogon. My problem is the modified unit is neither a high end name brand nor an Oppo. Seems one would have to keep it forever to get value back, but perhaps I'm wrong.

My plan is load JRiver on the iMac and use a good DAC and if that works well enough I might even sell the Oppo.

albertporter

Owner
An absolutely perfect description !

This morning when I turned the system on it sounded glorious, even though the source was Oppo BDP-105, not master dub or LP.

I did some work and sat down at lunch to listen and the magic was not there.

At least I got a glimpse last Tuesday and it was wonderful.

I wonder how much of this is the caps, wire and such and how much is individual drivers?

I'm not surprised Rockport has the same break in issues, Andy matches drivers way beyond most manufacturers to the point that left and right speakers are as identical as possible.

I feel like my Focal Grande fall in that category. As they break in there is unity (and then not) as the two channels reach ideal.

albertporter

Owner
Peter,
Albert, wow, 1000 hours. That's half way to a cartridge re tip. I guess if I ever buy another pair of speakers, I'll have to add a digital player for the break in process.

I would never attempt break in with a turntable, too many hours required and too much hands on to insure the music is in play.

With my Oppo I choose a CD and hit the repeat all button every week day morning about 7:00 AM.

If you're not a digital guy all you need is a basic player. A refurbished Panasonic for $42.00 from Best Buy would do. Use it for break in and store it for another day.

I have over 650 hours on the Focal Grande EM now and Tuesday night I got my reward. One of my reference music pieces is the 1960 Horace Parlan (Blue Note), "Speakin' My Piece."

A few minutes in, the Turrentine brothers stand up and blow directly in to the mike (hard left channel) and all time stops. FYI Tommy Turrentine - Trumpet, Stanley Turrentine - Tenor Saxophone.

The Dali always faithfully transported me to the venue and it was great. However, last night the brothers were here with us in the room. I've been waiting for this kind of emotional connection.

The two new 25th Anniversary on EM supply was huge but leading up to that moment included factory Focal spikes. They were installed last weekend now that driver integration and image can be judged.

After the spikes we got both speakers perfectly level using a carpenters square and bubble. Then the Leica laser for hot seat to tweeter to within 1.5MM.

Actually the hardest part was moving the speakers that last 1/4" with the spikes in place. It required a bit of creative leverage with pry bar tool to lift pressure off from the bottom of the cabinet to achieve the small corrections.

No question in my mind that these accumulated hours were absolutely necessary to pave the way for the other steps.

albertporter

Owner
Thank you Jwm. Your description of "comes and goes" is about where I am right now.

Not surprising considering the hours on this pair. Like all high quality speakers they are designed to provide a lifetime of listening enjoyment and hundreds of hours before they reach maximum performance.

I put in a call into Focal a short while ago. I'm hoping they have an estimate as to ideal number of hours to peak performance. As I mentioned here before, the Dali Megaline was well over 700 hours before the bass even showed up and over 1000 before the ribbon drivers stopped improving.

Is your Altair at maximum or still working on that?

albertporter

Owner
Thank you John, I can't wait to come to Austin hear your system, It would help me figure out where I am on mine. The last few hundred hours of break in have totally changed the Focal, and for the better.

I agree they were doing well tonight, I got emotionally moved several times and I would like to dial that up to be available on demand.

albertporter

Owner
System edited: Added new AC cables and added image of Leica Disto D2 Laser

albertporter

Owner
Lharasim,

First I need specifications for voltage and amperage from Focal before I experiment. Does the WE unit have controls to change those parameters or locked into one setting?

albertporter

Owner
Whart, regarding:
my recollection of the original field coil devices was that there was much attention paid to the power supply, so it makes sense that the juice powering the EM unit would be affected.
Understood, and I've wondered if building another version of the EM drive unit might provide additional performance as well. Many years ago field coils were driven by tube power supplies, you have to wonder what that would do.

Likewise, the stock umbilical cords between EM drive and Focal Grande might be upgraded. This four pin (DIN type) umbilical connection is very common construction, conductor and insulation. What might super quality, heavy conductor silver with Ferox isolation plus RF and EMI isolation do for performance?

I will ask Purist about getting a pair built. The idea was not crazy when I did that for Aesthetix Io and Callisto between power supply and main chassis.

In that case, Jim White of Aesthetix tested for us after completion and he was flabbergasted at the improvement, saying it was beyond his last upgrade and dual power supply implementation combined.

Even if we could get a fraction of that improvement it might be worth the effort.

I'm going to a costume wedding this weekend, and my choice was easy- I'm violating my lifelong rule never to wear more than one article of Western clothing at the same time- I'm gonna wear it all (only thing I don't have is spurs, and leather chaps are a bit hot in the dead of summer). :)

You're a brave man, I'm third generation Texan and never owned a hat or boots. New Balance walking shoes is about a close as I get to western wear :-).

albertporter

Owner

-07-13: Whart
Albert- I'm very pleased for you re the Focals. They look spectacular in your room.
Thank you so much for the compliment !

Can you take a moment and explain, if you haven't already, whether the EM is essentially an updated version of a field coil type speaker?

EM in Focal name refers to ElectroMagnetic, so yes it's a field coil as in days of old with Western Electric.

My understanding is Focal pushed this into a new realm. They are known to use very powerful permanent magnets on their drivers and this EM is claimed to have a "force factor" that's multiple times what any magnet could accomplish.

The primary benefit is efficiency. The large woofer is typically the least efficient driver in any high end speaker and with the EM drive it puts the woofer within striking distance of the high frequencies. Not only does this make the speaker more efficient overall, it negates layers of circuit in the crossover to put everything at correct levels.
If so, it wouldn't surprise me that a change in power cable could render a sonic difference. Enjoy your rig- it looks killer. And it's fun to revel in the improvements as break-in continues.

Thanks again, I was not expecting the kind of improvement I got, it's much, much more than I could ever imagine. The guys in my group have been puzzled by this and discussed it among ourselves.

I suspect the EM drive creates a magnetic field and that field is not "screened" for RF and EMI. I also wonder if the EM power supply might be a switching power supply?

Whatever the reason the cable is huge and now I have to have them.

albertporter

Owner
Ulf
So a small improvement. Fascinating! I can imaging that the even more costly 25an gives even more.

Yes, the 25th is much superior to Limited but I also suspect this might vary by region. I think Dallas, TX. Particularly in the summer when every AC and computer in the city are beating up the AC line the additional three stage filter of the 25th might be much of the improvement.

If you live somewhere where the power is cleaner it might not be so obvious. Like many things in high end audio, it depends :-).

I am pleased that you got an improvement. If you try the 25th at some point would love to read feedback as to what (if any) improvement you got.

albertporter

Owner
Ulf, please let me know what you experience.

The LTD should deliver pretty much what I got, I think the built in filter has something to do with this.

albertporter

Owner
The Altair could be best choice, they are among the finest speakers on the market. I think there are more SOTA choices for speakers than any other time in audio.

If Focal are on your list mine are available for you to audition.

albertporter

Owner
Lloydlee21,

I had concluded it ridiculous to even try these on the Focal Grande EM power supply but it turns out to be the ideal choice.

Sometimes the path to best performance is reasonably priced, just not this time around.

How are you progressing on the Rockport speakers?

albertporter

Owner

Happy and frustrated after an evening of listening and testing. The Focal Grande have just over 500 hours and are improving in every way.

The frustration came from borrowing two 25th Anniversary AC cables I sold to a good friend. These previously powered my second pair of VTL amps, no longer necessary after moving from Dali Megaline to Focal Grande.

He had been testing this week on his Classic Audio (field coil) speakers and wanted to see if my EM drive would react the same as his.

We planned for just a quick test but after plugged them in were all stunned at how much of an upgrade this was.

It's crazy that an AC cable can lower distortion, focus the image and improve tonal balance over the ENTIRE speaker spectrum, top to bottom when it only powers the electro magnetic drive for the sub bass.

albertporter

Owner
Having seen, touched and heard one of Albert's and John's plinths, I have to agree with you 100%. Albert was very gracious in hosting me at his home over a number of days last year.

The plinth is a thing of great beauty, but this is not just skin deep. It's performance is outstanding.

Thank you Richard.

Peter Ayer has experience with one of our plinths. A different wood and finish than the one I posted the image of but otherwise identical performance.

albertporter

Owner
Jwm
Albert do you have the D2 or D3 Leica Laser and what is the difference or your likes.

Mine is the D2 and it's a remarkable tool. The D3 has some additional buttons for calculating multiple measurements of room size but I don't think any more accurate than D2.

The D2 will calculate room volume and stores multiple measurements such as speaker to listener distance so you view numbers and compare.

After a measurement is made, you can toggle between metric meters and USA feet and inches or all inches which is sometimes easier to think about with speaker placement.

Very helpful tool and not too expensive if you purchase on line.

albertporter

Owner
Congrats Albert on you Focal Grande Utopia Em. I also have this fantastic speakers and they where a huge improvement over my previous Maxx3, They can produce the best sound I have ever heard during my 20 years of searching for SOTA speakers.

Ulf, Even though mine are not broken in they already do many things I've never experienced before. I agree they are SOTA and very beautiful.

The word beautiful can also be used to describe the sound and presentation of the Grande. It's European in the finest sense of the word. Resolved and resolute but also graceful and classy.
They surely prefers being driven by tube amps.

I have not experimented, still using the VTL 750 that ran my Sound-Lab Ultimate and Dali Megaline. It is an amazing amp, never causes me problems and survived three speakers and several other equipment swaps.

I can't imagine not using tubes but I intend to explore some of the solid state designs that friends in the business claim are best choice.

albertporter

Owner

Peter,
1. Distance of tweeter to dot
2. Toe in from inside of speaker stand to a mark 5 7/8" left and right of dot for each channel
3. Tilt - laser resting on top of speaker aimed directly on the dot.

Now I understand. The wall and tape are an extension of your listening position.

I put my Leica laser on a tripod at center seat listening position to make my measurements and fired at the speakers. I think we're achieving the same result.

I agree about metal tape sag and when I had the Dali I had to watch the powerful ribbon magnets. They grabbed at anything metal and risk damaging the driver.

albertporter

Owner
Albert, I use a similar laser. I have a dot on the wall directly behind my listening seat. You could use a tripod in an open room. I then have a tape with 1/2" lines going left and right of the center dot.

Maybe I don't understand. You still use a tape with the laser? The one I bought can measure instantly, anything you aim at. I put at each speaker and aimed at both side and back walls and got instant read out.

From the listening position I aimed at the center of the tweeter and got measurements for both speakers. I did use a tripod so I didn't wiggle the laser. Even the slightest movement results in a different measurement since it's accurate to 1.5 MM.

albertporter

Owner

I should have said congratulations on your purchase of your new Altairs. I was damn close to choosing them myself. Incredible speakers.

I see you have a vaulted ceiling in your listening room. My room has that architectural element as well. That design has some beneficial acoustic properties.

albertporter

Owner
Jwm
Albert, I feel the same way as I have about 350 hours on my Altair's. The most painful breakin process is always speakers and then phono cartridge. Its really hard to listen and enjoy in the above break in period.

It's hard to be patient, especially with all the work and money involved in purchasing and then moving and setting up.

Fortunately I've learned to be patient but it's really hard with my listening group coming so often when they were cold out of the crate. Fortunately they are improving every week and everyone can hear that.

albertporter

Owner
One of the greatest tweaks I've found. I've been working with a steel tape measure to determine speaker toe in and listening distance and found this:

Leica Laser

This makes it a snap to get accurate measurements and quickly hear the results of changes. Aim at the speaker from listening position and read exact distance in inches, feet plus inches or meters.

Accurate to within 1.5MM

albertporter

Owner

I've got to post a "Hurray" moment here. Tonight with over 400 hours on the Focal Grande the drivers are finally becoming integrated and coherent and I'm really beginning to enjoy them.

Appears the Grande will be like my previous European speaker, requiring 700 to 800 hours to maximum performance.

I wish I were less sensitive to break in but it's always been. I can't disengage the critique until everything reaches its natural balance. Then the music has the power to overtake my ability to analyze.

I hope that makes sense.

At the end of the session one of my all time favorites, "Blue" by Joni Mitchell was on the table and it was great hearing her words gracefully falling out into space and filling the room.

That's what I needed, just happy to experience it.

albertporter

Owner
Thank you Defride.

I've owned the Ebony, Wenge and Rosewood versions and all are beautiful.

Ebony is hard to beat. Simple understated black finish with deep colors and hidden textures and grain.

albertporter

Owner
Thanks Peter, I wish John had more of that in stock to work with. The Rosewood you see was from stocks acquired by the furniture company way back in the '60s.

Today it's difficult if not impossible to get that quality and I understand, there are only so many trees we can kill before we do irreparable damage to the species.

albertporter

Owner
Thank you.

albertporter

Owner
Peterayer
Albert, I was just marveling at the beauty of your SP10 Mk3 in the system photo. I would love to see an image with the two V-12s.

Took me awhile but here it is.

MK3 Rosewood, twin SME V-12

albertporter

Owner

Cdk84
Hi Albert,
Thank you for the suggestion about the Vibraplanes under your gorgeous plinth.
Thank you.
Let me take a moment to reiterate my delight with your product. My listening room is in an attractive panelled room in an 18th C house and the ebony-clad plinth is easily as handsome as the space where it resides. I will send you pictures offline so you may decide if you agree. That said the plinth is, in my opinion, one work of art within another.
The plinths are a joint venture between John Semrad and myself. John is a good friend and part of our regular listening group. Thanks on behalf of both of us and I look forward to receiving the photo.
Hope this finds you well, and that the desired changes in your Focals are beginning to happen.
The Focal improved noticeably to both myself and other listeners during last Tuesday nights session.

The surprise came last night when my wife and I were watching a movie with a sound track that included a particularly well recorded grand piano. I realized I was lost in the sound, swept away by the beauty and realism. I actually began to loose track of the movie.

I can't remember that ever happening to me, I'm a photographer and equally visual as my love for music. All I can say is I'm grateful for this beautiful speaker and glad I choose it.
Very Best, and again my Highest Praise for both the conception and design of such a outstanding plinth.
The design has evolved for about a decade, starting with the Lenco project in 2003. It was personal, part of my pursuit to improve sound and the few we've produced are hand made and slow go.

The plinth you have is of extraordinary beauty. Perfect Ebony is increasingly hard to come by and like all products of nature, varies quite a bit.

I hope you enjoy it for years to come and thanks for the thoughtful praise here on my system thread. I hope you listen with us sometime soon.

albertporter

Owner
Unoear
Hey Lapierre,

The Nikon USA outlet store has the refurbished D600 for $1440.00 this weekend, happy hunting!
No question Nikon would take care of issues under whatever warranty is specified. At that price it would almost be worth buying one as a back up body.

albertporter

Owner
Lapierre
Thanks for the insight. Will checkout B&H.

I purchased just about everything I own from them. They always represent product accurately and don't play games with your money like some discount photo suppliers.

albertporter

Owner
Lapierre,

You might check with B&H in New York. They occasionally get specials from Nikon and they are absolutely trustworthy and honest.

albertporter

Owner
Lapierre
Think Big, Travel Light. Thinking about Nikon D600

That's a very nice camera with superb resolution. Are you buying one?

I have it's big brother, the Nikon D800. I'm using my Nikon ED glass film lenses, which work great with FX digital format.

albertporter

Owner
Albert, even your photography of your photography is outstanding.
Thank you.

albertporter

Owner
I received a couple of email messages asking who I was doing the advertising photography for.

It's though Jonathan Skull and the manufacturer is Raven Audio.

Dave, the owner of Raven has attended several music sessions at my home. A great guy that's become a good friend. He is very passionate about getting his product in front of music lovers. I hope what I'm doing helps.

Here's the set up for Raven amps.

Porter Studio_Raven

This was taken with my baby Sony point and shoot, the Nikon is busy doing the ads.

albertporter

Owner
Bifwynne
Albert, you are correct re the KT-120s. They are NOT "plug n' play." It just happened to be that my amp's power transformer could handle the extra power demand, otherwise ARC wouldn't have made the change.
Maybe I can get Luke at VTL to answer that question for me. The 750s are an older design so I know they were not intended for this new tube but perhaps there is enough "headroom" in the circuit to accommodate.

I really would like to hear the KT120. Many people have moved over to it and it's supposed to be higher reliability as well as improved tonal balance.

albertporter

Owner
Peterayer
Hi Albert,

So you did isolate the Mk3 PS. I saw it on the lower shelf under your tt in the old photo and had not realized you moved it. Glad you heard the improvement.

I think I posted something about that here but maybe not. Sometimes I forget to add. Moving the MK3 power supply was huge. Not as big as the turntable on the Vibraplane but surprisingly audible and it cost nothing since the cord could easily reach.

Kinetic Systems will cut and finish a steel plate to match their Vibraplanes, but for a fee and shipping is expensive in a wooden pallet. I picked up both of mine directly from the factory and put them in the back of the pick up.
I considered that and got a quote. His price was not out of line but by the time I paid shipping I wanted to find a local source and pick up myself.
My buddy David K has just set up his SP10 Mk2a in your plinth and even with the cartridge and arm wire not broken in or the alignment yet optimal, the sound is very good and easily beats the digital which is quite fine. That two-arm Panzerholz plinth is gorgeous.
That makes me happy, I like David a lot. Pleased that he is happy with the plinth. I wish John had more time to build these but they are slow go with his level of workmanship.

Does David have a Vibraplane or other isolation device for the MK2? You know how big an improvement that is.

albertporter

Owner
Firedrums
Hi Albert, The new system looks Great !!!

Thank you so much!

albertporter

Owner
Bifwynne
Albert -- double kudos. I LUV your rig.
My sincere thank you!
Quick q: I think your amps use SED 6550 power tubes. Did you think about using KT-120s?? My ARC amp originally used the SED 6550s, but ARC switched them out for the KT-120s. Big difference!
I've heard multiple people rave about the new KT-120s and you're correct I use SED 6550.

Did your ARC require any modifications? My understanding is the new KT-120 requires higher heater voltage so perhaps not plug and play?

albertporter

Owner
Peter
Albert, I was just marveling at the beauty of your SP10 Mk3 in the system photo. I would love to see an image with the two V-12s.
I'm currently doing high end audio photos for upcoming ads with Jonathan Skull. I promise when I finish I'll set aside time to do some shots of the Rosewood with dual SME V12.
I'd also like to suggest that you consider ordering a custom steel ballast plate 20" X 30" so that it is large enough for both your lovely Panzerholz plinth and the Mk3 power supply.
I know you're right on the ballast plate, the specification for Vibraplane clearly show that getting mass at proper load point improves the numbers. I had a shop that promised to do this but they never came through on the final product. I required grinding and powder coat so it looks nice. They did not want to handle both projects.

I'll go back and revisit that when I get a chance. I know it's important.

As for MK3 power supply benefit from Vibraplane, I have mine behind the Studer A810 and have had it there for many months. It adds a bit of ballast to the Studer and fits neatly on what is otherwise unused space. Yes, it was very beneficial !

albertporter

Owner
System edited: Edited system

albertporter

Owner
Sam,
You deserve an A820, Albert, because you will appreciate it and be a conscientious owner!

I'm looking for one, and please post comments about the outcome of the test.

albertporter

Owner
Steve
I'll play the new tape for him Albert

It is a simple thing to a/b the switched external vs the unswitched internal electronics.

Thank you, wish I could be there with you guys but it's much closer for Sam.

The Doshi plus the Lamm Signature series sounds truly exceptional. When Nick listened to Stimela he commented that he has heard that on many different systems but only then had he heard it for the first time. It's a remarkable piece Albert

I thought it was excellent on the Lamm with stock Studer electronics. My Studer was completely rebuilt and when I compared it against the King Cello it was a draw.

I'm expecting the Doshi to be better than the rest, look forward to the report. That Lamm gear and your room treatment took the Wilson to a spot I've never heard Wilson go before. Not any model Wilson anywhere, so I easily can believe what Nick said.

Good job and great reward for your hard work.

albertporter

Owner
I know how you listen, so I'm especially eager to read your feedback on what the Doshi brings to the Studer A810.

I assume this same tape head preamp could be directly moved to a Studer A820 should that opportunity arise? I'm still going to buy one of those, just needs to be the right cosmetics and condition.

When we listened together at Steve's place we used the new tape, please revisit that as well for the comparison. I would especially like to know what happens with Joni Mitchell's voice.

albertporter

Owner
Sam, I read your comments on Steve's system over at WBF. Do you have plans to make another run and hear the Doshi tube tape head preamp?

albertporter

Owner
Arthursmuck
Thanks Albert, I'll make it by in the near future!

Ken's coming over from Ft. Worth for this Tuesday session. You might ride together. Or, whenever you can make it.

albertporter

Owner
C1ferrari
Sonny's a keeper! She hung out with four audiophiles and listened to some music with us the other day :-)

Don't forget sweet natured and beautiful, I'm sure you don't want to brag so I will for you.

albertporter

Owner
Mapman,

Speakers obviously play a huge part in how bcs actually sound. It's hard to attribute a specific sound to an amp.

If you're saying there is an interaction between the amp and speaker and that there is not 100% predictable, I agree completely.

Some amp designs have a "personality" that tends to show up in the speaker but not always as expected. Tubes versus solid state is a good example, your comment about matching with the Ohm speaker is another.

The whole package is interactive, I guess I was just looking for a snapshot view of which side the BC fell on and it appears from what I read it's a unique animal.

albertporter

Owner
Lloydelee21
Hi Albert,

I took your name in vain yesterday. I was walking thru our neighbhorhood and was introduced to Gerard Chretien, CEO? of Focal, by the owner of our local dealership. My wife and I did not have time to really talk at length, but we did speak briefly. I mentioned that you had been posting your thoughts on his flagship, and that I too had heard it. Quite cool!

I restrain myself because all of us that love music get excited when something really nice happens to our system.

I'll say more when enough time passes and everything is fully run in but these are stunning speakers.

I have not met Gerard Chretin, I have communicated with Focal but another gentleman who I should add, has been beyond superb and more professional than expected.

Likely a reflection of how the company is run and caliber of it's management team.

albertporter

Owner
C1ferrari
What we do to optimize our Studers! For me, it recently meant enduring rush-hour traffic from San Diego through Orange County and into Los Angeles to see my Studer tech. This required approximately 3 hours to drive 141 miles -- essentially, all freeway -- brutal!

I almost feel better about the option to ship to Nashville. Fortunately we did not endure any of that traffic when we were out and about in Newport.

When I did Vacations magazine for Southwest Airlines I did have a rough time in and around LA. That's a monster city with traffic going everywhere almost 24 hours a day.

Thanks for the kind words, Albert...it's always such a delightful time with you -- regardless of the occasion :-)

You're welcome.

Don't forget much of the joy of our trip was being with your beautiful wife Sonny. Anyone that can teach school and still remain that sweet and happy around an audio show comprised of 99% males deserves an award.

albertporter

Owner
One thing I would add is that the first time I heard the BCs in my system, it was a total shocking and disorienting experience. The sound was so radically different from the amp it replaced, a Musical Fidelity SS A3CR, that I did not know what to make of it. It did sound most tube-like in many ways at first listen, except not warm at all like some tube amp setups. The biggest difference was the fully transparent 3D soundstage, and control of the bass, which seemed to have vanished upon first listen.
Interesting comment on the bass. The 16" field coil is not broken in yet but I'll wager it would benefit from an amp that had an iron grip on it.
The BCs can sound a TAD towards the dry side in some setups, like with my little Triangle Titus speakers, which do not seem to benefit from amps with high damping factor like the BCs. The BCs shine however with both my OHM speakers and my Dynaudio Contour monitors, which are just slightly larger than the Triangles.

Several description of Class D include the word dry. I'm not sure I've heard that at shows since there are so many variables that make up final sound.

I typically prefer sound toward warm side and zero tolerance for high frequency distortion, brightness or roughness. I had concern about the Focal tweeter and it's 45K bandwidth rating which turned out to be completely unfounded.

In spite of the small driver the high frequencies have no distortion and border on velvety. The bandwidth is even greater than the ribbon drivers on my Dali Megaline. I did not believe it possible to out perform a seven foot dipole ribbon. Stats and ribbons have been my quality standard for more than twenty years, simply amazing how far this technology has evolved.

albertporter

Owner

Mapman
The results I am getting currently are much like the better systems I have heard and used for reference, both SS and tubes. Many of those have tended to use larger high end tube amps, VAC, ARC, Rogue, Audio Note and others, and a few other Class D amps from Rowland and ARC mainly. A couple were run off SS amps as well, but very large well built pricey ones.

A system I heard once running Avalon Diamond speakers I believe off Boulder amplification comes to mind.

Interesting description, different that some of the comments posted by reviewers on the Bel Canto. Your comparison to VAC and ARC is positive. Comparison to Boulder not so much for my taste.

I'm going to contact Focal and ask about the circuit. Bel Canto has requested I send the Grande EM owners book (PDF) to them. I plan on complying but there is nothing in there that applies to this situation.

albertporter

Owner
Ct0517
Yes Sam (C1ferrari) as well as RugyBoogie (Mike R) helped me out a lot in the beginning.

Hi Sam & Mike R if you see this.

Sam and Sonny were guests along with myself for the visit to Steve's home (Oneobgyn here at Audiogon) when we were at THE Show Newport. I spoke with Sam and Sonny last night, about audio and music. We often go out to dinner at these shows, they're wonderful people.

When my Studer needed servicing last winter I called Roger. He said bring it over. He was in the midst of a house move (still nearby luckily for me) So he serviced it for me at his house and showed me what was in his garage

Good grief. That 48 track is huge.

albertporter

Owner
Mapman
One of my Ref 1000ms (which I acquired second hand) developed a problem a while back with one of the circuit boards. They promptly repaired it and for very reasonable cost. No mixups, no hassles. Very good customer services and communications. That's worth a lot when one makes a big investment in expensive toys!

That's part of why I choose Bel Canto rather than purchase used solid state to do the job. As mentioned several times, the ultra high efficiency of the Bel Canto Class D, no heat and low power drain is ideal for leaving on 24-7 and see the Focal through break in.

Afterward it's small enough to stay ready in the system and switch back and forth between big tube amps. Depending on how the BC sounded they would see more or less duty.

Do you think the Bel Canto Ref sounds like solid state or more toward tube as some claim?

albertporter

Owner
Ct0517
Hi Albert – Right now I have enough tapes for a full day & night session once a week. Not as much as I would like - due to two 18 year olds demands :^) soon to be 19. I try to treat myself to a new tape every 6 months.
I know what you mean. Mine passed the 19 year old mark a few years ago and still fresh in my mind :-).
I have learned that to own one of these machines means having a tech within driving distance -- In my case Studer tech - Roger Ginsley is a 40 min drive away.
You are truly blessed, that's not available to me. I must ship to Nashville or the West Coast and wait.
The other thing I learned is finding good tapes is a learned process in itself. Sam was very helpful to me when I was crawling on all fours. Now I am walking on my knees . so much to learn ...
I went through that, bought tons off Ebay. Some were great and some were horrible. By horrible I mean a bad LP would thrash it. That's when you want to give up.

Is this Sam that helped you here at Audiogon?
I am a really big fan of full range dynamic speakers whose design allows for their drivers to be physically aimed/adjusted for the room imaging at your sweet spot. This should allow you, imo if you desired one day to dial into two listening environments with your great room. One for the “one on one” nearfield listening and the other for the larger group listening ?
These speakers have such a huge sweet spot they seem to be less critical to position, at least at this point. They can certainly be focused more, maybe even enough to exclude others and produce something I have not yet experienced.

I'll revisit those adjustments and speaker position (and spike them) once the drivers integrate completely and everything burns in.

I sit in one of two places and both are good. Special recordings such as Roger Waters "Amused to Death" require precise center seat but good sound can had in several places with slightly different perspective with many recordings.

albertporter

Owner
Mapman
Albert, does BC have any idea why the problem is occurring with that amp specifically? It seems particularly sensitive to the EM driver not being on. I suspect a Class D, very high output voltage related type thing, but dunno for sure.

They have not said, the idea of interaction between the EM drive and protection circuit on Bel Canto are 100% mine. Otherwise I cannot imagine why there is no sound, the same cable can be moved to the VTL and everything plays fine.
Does Focal indicate knowing of any Class D amps that have been used with those successfully?
I did not think to ask today when I spoke with them.

I'll go back to Focal again after giving Bel Canto another few days. I spoke with them this afternoon and should hear back soon. They did mention a circuit that could be added to Bel Canto that allows it to play with certain brands of subwoofer. I suppose there was an issue where the amp refused to turn on with them.

I think this is all safety issue. My guess is Bel Canto does not want damage done to their amps or the customers speakers. Frankly I'm not upset at all, can you imagine if there were a problem and BC did not plan for that and new speakers were ruined?

I have great respect for both BC and Focal. It's just a snag and it will work out.

albertporter

Owner
Mapman
Those Focals are not the cat's meow....more like the lions roar! :^)
As break in continues I'm amazed at the sheer grace of these giants. Sure, they have power and resolution but also touch your heart.

Last Tuesday one of my friends was listening with us when we put on Elvis '57, the recent 45 RPM pressing from Acoustic Sounds.

He was quiet until the end and then rubbed his arms and said, "I got goose bumps all over from that."

That's speaks volumes about the character of this product. They have the ability to deliver resolution and realism plus beauty. Providing an important level of emotion, often missing in high resolution audio.
Still hoping to hear something about them running of Bel Canto amps, if that issue gets worked out.

I just hung up the phone with them. I suspect I may be the only person who owns these speakers and that Bel Canto amp. That makes it difficult for them to offer a solution but they are trying.

albertporter

Owner
Ct0517
Hi Albert – wonderful setup.

..they sure do look beautiful in picture

That is an understatement I think ? Simply gorgeous.
Chris, Thank you! I appreciate your comments greatly.
We actually have something in common now.
My French TT uses Focal Speaker Magnets for its levitation :^)
I find something about these French audio products very appealing.
The French build quite a few amazing products, my long career in commercial photography relied heavily on their creative tools.

We also seem to share a love for Studer, assuming you still have yours. Do you have much software for the Studer?

albertporter

Owner
Glad to hear your speaker break-in is progressing Albert, I'll have to make it over there someday soon...they sure do look beautiful in picture.

Art, it goes without saying you are welcome whenever your schedule permits.

albertporter

Owner

Tonight when we shut down from our usual Tuesday night music session my notes showed we passed the 250 hour mark.

Focal said this would be the first significant break in period and true to that promise, the integration of the drivers and smoothness in extreme highs made significant gain. This began last Monday and steadily improved that week and into tonight.

A friend in the business suggested the RCA Classical SACD Saint-Saëns: Symphony No. 3- Organ / Debussy. This was a great suggestion, very helpful with break in along with my assortment of Jazz and rock to work the speakers.

albertporter

Owner
I don't know. I think living with the Mega Lines for so long has skewed your perception :). If I remember correctly they are at least 6-7 feet tall and over 500lbs each. That seems pretty massive to me.
Yep, the Megaline was taller than the Focal by about 10" but not as wide. Your joke about perception is actually true. Several speakers I considered seemed small when I pulled the tape measure out and choose the number that represented it's height.

The Focal is a great size, perhaps large for some peoples taste but they fit well in our space. I think they are beautiful, perhaps even elegant, I enjoy looking at them and my wife likes them.
I have my room treated but probably not as much as you do. I only have 8 bass traps but my room is fairly small so that did the trick for me.
You have more traps than I do. I have four plus RPG panels behind the speakers and all walls with fiberglass inside and outside (covered with cloth). I was mainly concerned with reflection.
I am sure the Focals love those big VTL amps
They seem to, I love tubes and big tube amps have a lot of warmth, punch and dynamics. Once the Focal are broken in I may consider other amps.

I just re-read your two paragraphs above where you talk about your room a bit. That is really cool that you could treat everything then cover it all up to make the room look very clean. A well thought out room.
Thank you again, everyone appreciates kinds words about their work. This came over a VERY long time rather than one shot. The fireplace and right wall were originally brick and I had that removed very long ago and it made a huge mess.
When we repaired a decade ago from severe water damage we tore out about half the house including all of the living room. That was the perfect time to apply everything we wanted to this space.

albertporter

Owner

I would probably get a tube based front end. But since I already have a rack that was not cheap, and my room is small so heat and placement are an issue, I think I will have to stick with solid state.

the Focal Grande allowed me to drop back to two channels of power and no subs. This reduced replacement tube expense and helped with room heat gain. That being said, If solid state could sound as beautiful as my tube gear I would swap in a second.

You have VTL and Bel Canto listed. I take it that you mainly use the VTL amps. I have never heard them but a dealer I used know had them and they do look like very nice amps.

I own both but only use the VTL. If you read back a few posts I mentioned the fact the Bel Canto will not come out of protect mode. I have not even heard it. I do have Focal and Bel Canto looking into this and hope to know more this week.

I still can't get over how massive the Grand EM's look. Again, that is a great system.

Thank you so much for the compliment on my system. The Grande are large but some of the massive look is likely the wide angle lens. I took the photo with the same lens and from the same position as the (previous) Dali Megaline.

I like this angle, it shows speaker detail, amps, cable and some of the room so people get a view of what it's like to sit there.

I mention every so often because no one goes back and reads every post, but this space is treated on every square inch with one acoustic remedy or another. The idea was to pull this off and keep the space looking like it's for our family (which it is).

albertporter

Owner
Mikeduke,
I know they have more. As I said, I heard them with better amps and I was very impressed.
I have not heard your Bryston amps but the personality of my Focal dictate tubes.
When I play music with my new media server, it really sounds fantastic. It beats my OPPO 83 and my old Esoteric DV50s hands down.
Source is very high importance, regardless of all the other equipment. I have three sources and it's amazing the vast difference in sound between them.

albertporter

Owner
Mikeduke,

You are fortunate to have friends to pitch in and help. I had to call on all my friends plus hire a professional piano moving company to get the Dali out of my space and the Focal in. It's more work than you can imagine until you're in the fray.

I have not heard your Focal but as you so accurately mention the associated equipment can literally make the difference between bad and good sound and all levels in between.

After I bought my Dali Megaline I heard them at a big audio show the week after they were delivered. I knew they needed break in but the sound at that show almost made me sell them off. It was not bad, it was horrible.

Shows have value but after attending up to three to five a year for 30 years I can honestly say there is more bad sound than good. I can remember moments at shows when the sound was spectacular but most often it sounds like good gear in a hotel room (which it is).

I knew then that my speakers had a lot to give. I know that my speakers aren't in the league of the big boys, but I also know that they cam sound great. But you jumped all the way to the front of the line IMHO.

You have likely not heard all your speakers have to offer. In the ten years I owned the Dali they were absolutely better at the end of each year than the year before. Typically this from better phono cartridge, better tape machine or turntable but also from cable, isolation devices and equipment upgrades. A good speaker reproduces what it's fed and it's amazing how much even the smallest things over time add up.

albertporter

Owner
Jwm
Albert, I'm going through the same experience breaking in my speakers. I'm like you hoping for it to be more organic and more refined in the tweeter. I think beryllium probably takes longer to break in than a soft dome.

Looking at your system I see new Rockport Altair. The Altair and Arrakis were on my speaker list. Andy is an engineering wonder and builds a world class speaker.

Your hope for more organic is likely based on break in like I'm going through. Your listening room is very close to mine in design and size and should be perfect for the Rockport.

My previous speaker the Dali Megaline took over 700 hours to break in and I swear it kept improving for at least a couple of years after that.

Your Rockport will likely improve up to at least 700 to 1000 hours. It's a machine designed for a lifetime of listening and you have just started the engine :-).

albertporter

Owner
06-13-13: Mikeduke
I hope you don't mind all my questions, even though I will never be able to get them. These aren't "modular" right? They are just one big speaker correct?

Mike, these are packed in four crates. Two crates contain the main section and two other crates are the top section. Once the main section is in place two or three guys can lift the upper section into place on top.

There is a stainless steel latch that snaps into lock position and a recessed pull handle that shows everything is in place. I'm still fascinated with the engineering on these, very precise and very elegant.

Math is not my strong suit so when the instructions for the speaker it self is giving you an equation to use to find the best placement, that's when I would get an expert. I am interested in the EM driver. I am sort of jumping in your thread late but I will assume that you have had other really high end speakers before.

I have an offer from a true expert if he's serious about visiting. My Doctor friend is very smart and likely has the math correct, especially since they are sounding so good already.

I will put maximum effort into all the details once I know break in is out of the way. I think final tuning will require all the drivers operating at maximum integration and wire and caps settled in completely.

Your interest in the EM driver is understood and one of the clever engineering features that pushed me toward this speaker. Every DB of efficiency increase you can obtain with speaker drivers equates to less work for the amp. We all know that but when an EM woofer is capable of 16 Hz and efficiency of (up to) 95 DB the crossover becomes much less problematic as well. The woofers are always the most difficult to drive.

As for other high end speakers, I previously owned Dali Megaline that had a lot of custom parts. I had terrific sound with them for ten years and I will never regret their purchase. Dali provided an enormous amount of high quality music and operated with zero defects or repairs all that time.

Previous to Dali I had Sound Lab U1 electrostatics, they too are world class and to this day do some things better than any speaker on the market.

I don't change speakers often, I think there are a lot of audiophiles that buy a speaker, listen for a short while and sell off having never given the product a chance to prove it's merit. Truth is with today's engineering and computer science there a LOT of really great speakers and most of them are capable of more than we realize. They all take time, patience and work to deliver all they are capable of.

Thanks for the kind words about my enjoying these, come listen with us if travel brings you this way.

albertporter

Owner
Mikeduke,
I know that with that hand crank, they are extremely configurable for the time alignment. Did it take you for ever and a day to get it just right? With the correct angle and toe in?
The crank allows for driver arrival time based on distance and height. It's Important not only for phase but image height as well.

In addition, the Focal owners book suggests speaker placement based on a math formula. Beginning with measurement from sub bass to the floor (with large feet installed) plus distance from mid bass driver to rear and side walls.

I tried to calculate this but really did not understand what they were getting at. My Doctor friend (MD) understood and got it down to fraction of an inch. Turns out I was pretty close by just listening and moving things but will absolutely revisit those numbers after break in.

I know for my 1027,s they were more sensitive then my 927's so they took me a while. I can't imagine what your setup must have been like. Again, great system. Enjoy them every day. I know I would :)
I'm really beginning to enjoy them, the "musicality" factor is increasing and I hope it continues more that direction.

Last night Rick Schultz (High Fidelity Cables) listened with us for several hours. He listened for a long time with his eyes closed and then said, "These are fantastic." That along with John Frech saying they were awesome made my day !

albertporter

Owner
Mikeduke
Thanks for the invite. I do appreciate the it.
The invite is sincere, just contact me and we will work on a day and time.
I can imagine the break in would long on a large, complex, muti-driver speaker like that. I am guessing you have an 8-9 foot ceiling at least?
Focal says the tweeter requires at least 250 hours and the EM bass even more. I've noticed increased performance this last few days but am still shy of 200 hours.

My ceiling if vaulted, from about 8.5 feet to over 12 feet. There is also a section in the center (not visible in room image) that goes up to over 17 feet. It's acoustically lined on all sides and has beams across it to break up standing waves.

albertporter

Owner
Peterayer
Jfrech, did you listen to both the Atlas and to Albert's AirTight Supreme? If so, how do you think they compare?

Peter, you know you're welcome any time. I wish the last planned trip had not failed, would have loved for you to hear the Dali Megaline and then return later for the Grande.

My group is split about 50/50 on the Air Tight versus Lyra. Those that like the Air Tight are emphatic that it's better. One of my best listeners likes the "tightness' of the bass on the Lyra but the Focal bass is changing every few days.

albertporter

Owner
John
Albert, thanks for letting my mom/dad and myself listen last night ! The new speakers sound awesome! Especially on the Allnic with the Lyra Atlas !

Yep that's a good combo, I keep going back and forth between the Air Tight and Lyra. It's difficult to put one as best, only what one prefers.

I think your Mom was surprised by Billie Holiday's voice and the sound of various horn instruments on several recordings. Your Dad was focused on vocals and content. I think you inherited both listening skills :-).

The Focal were making me nervous at first when they were new, cold and not broken in. Amazing how much they have opened up.

albertporter

Owner
Thank you Mikeduke. I'm listening right now and becoming more comfortable by the day. This is an ultra high resolution speaker and with that comes the discomfort of break in.

Today I'm hearing the bass come up and highs smooth out and I'm still several hundred hours away from absolute break in.

If you ever travel through Dallas look me up. We listen every Tuesday night as a group and you can meet many like minded music lovers.

albertporter

Owner
Mike,

I agree with clarification of bass effecting all frequencies but this was just short of astounding. I keep thinking there is a link between the ground plane, AC current supplying the EM drive and the crossover.

This would also explain the Bel Canto protection circuit incompatibility with the big Focal. I'm just reaching out for knowledge, this is so new and not yet broken in or fully explored.

I want to make it to your place sometime in the near future and hope you can visit me. I'm eager to hear the big Evolution Acoustics, I got a report from a recent visitor and he was very positive about the sound and the graciousness you are known for.

I enjoyed you at Newport too, wish you had been with us at Steve's place and gotten your reaction to his Wilson.

I'm not a huge fan of Wilson but man does Steve have this pair working top flight. If Wilson got that kind of sound at shows they would not be able to keep up with demand.

albertporter

Owner

The power supply cord for the Focal Grande EM woofer should be a high quality heavy gauge AC cord and the one supplied with my speakers appeared to fit the bill nicely.

Rather than the typical moulded blister pack AC cord one gets with (even high end) electronics, this one was first rate in appearance and construction, including heavy gauge conductors, a custom sheath and audio grade terminations for both IEC and wall.

I assumed it was providing pretty much all that could be expected until I learned that the Focal Grande EM at the Munich high end audio show revealed surprising performance variations, depending on the brand and design of the power cord used on the EM power module.

Wanting to test for myself, I ordered two Purist Canorus AC for my EM outboard supply and installed them mid session during our audio group meeting.

Several people including myself were dumbstruck at the improvement, not only to the bass but full bandwidth. There was as much resolution and clarity benefit for the midrange as there was for the woofer.

I'm at a loss to explain this, I can't see the connection between the non EM drivers and the AC cord but for whatever reason this pair of AC cords rendered a larger sonic improvement than the upgrade to bi-wire from single wire speaker.

albertporter

Owner
Ed,

I just returned from Newport, captured 550 (plus) images. Show attendance felt down a bit from last year but it was a great show from ribbon cutting to tear down. I enjoy seeing everyone as much as the listening itself.

I posted on Steve's system (Oneobgyn) about our visit to listen at his home. If you ever get out to LA, Orange County area invite yourself to listen to his Wilson's with Lamm. Truly world class sound and room.

albertporter

Owner
06-01-13: Lapierre
AP which cable did you purchase for the Grande?

I listed in my system components, the new Purist 25th Anniversary Silver in bi-wire configuration.

It was suggested by more than one source to remove the Focal jumpers and single wire in favor of bi-wire.

albertporter

Owner
Ed,

I'm at THE Show Newport, sorry for delay. Of course you're welcome any time.

albertporter

Owner
System edited: Deleted cable that supported the Dali Megaline (now sold) and added new cable I installed today that fits new set up with Focal Grande EM

albertporter

Owner
Thanks John, let me know how the testing goes.

John Porter arrived late in the night from Tech with his girl. We will be around Memorial weekend with cookout and enjoying the time off.

Tell Alli I said hello and be careful in the Volvo if she gets it.

albertporter

Owner
I will get to hear the Altars at my friend John's home (Jfrech) sometime soon. Both of us are breaking in new gear and planning to visit each other.

I did look at your system, sorry I did not see the note about Altairs. Rockport was high on my list.

albertporter

Owner
Jwm
Albert, beautiful system. Still waiting for updates but I guess you work like the rest of us.

Work and due to layout of our home I can put about 10 hours a day on the speakers without interrupting dinner, sleep or quiet time for my wife.

I have over 100 hours now and they are improving slowly. The problem is the Purist break in CD works wonders at pushing the speakers but then it takes everything a day or two to settle back to normal. It sort of "over cooks" things and then relaxes again.

I have new cable coming either Friday or Monday depending if they ship UPS or FedEx. That must break in too, but might as well do it all at once and get on the other side of this burn in period.

What speakers are you getting to replace your 15 year favorite?

albertporter

Owner
Microstrip

Did you look at Paul Stublebine system using the Grande Utopia EM? Paul is a man used to tubes - he is part of the Bottlehead team and owns an active system with triode amplifiers at home.

I saw this review where they discussed the Grande driven with VTL

http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/the-best-system-ive-ever-heard-in-a-studio-or-perhaps-anywhere/?page=1

That review is over a year old and may no longer reflect what he's using. Is that what you refer to?

IMHO one of the good thinks of the EM field coil system is that you can tune the bass damping to your room and amplifier - a great capability as most of the best sounding quality amplifiers have medium or low damping factor.

I read about that in the owners book but have not played with the controls. As the system breaks in the first thing will be to figure out how far off I am on room placement then try the controls that are available.

albertporter

Owner
Swanny76109
Hey Albert, the Bel Canto amps do have some grounding requirements but so do Pass Labs amps in terms of referencing a common ground. Before you throw in the towel I suggest picking up the phone and calling Bel Canto on Monday.

I've spoken with Bel Canto and they are very responsive. I've also exchanged several email messages and they are thinking about what the issue could be.

I also contacted Focal and the inquiry is going to France for them to look into.

They could help guide the hookup and let you know about setup issues with the speakers. Or if you do need to go another direction. Good luck!

The owners booklet with the Bel Canto is crystal clear and I'm pretty certain I have everything 100%.

albertporter

Owner
Peterayer
Albert, you could also try a pair of Pass XA60.5. There are the smallest current mono blocks. Then as the speakers break in, you will get a sense of Pass SS Class A sound and decide later to move up the Pass line or go with a different brand.

I'm making a list like I did when I was speaker shopping. I have a lot of names on there right now including Pass Labs. I'm not at all sure I can tell under show conditions but hopefully it will help.

albertporter

Owner
Bigamp
Hi Albert. Congratulations on your new additions. What an amazing system.

Thank you! I'm eager to get them broken in so I can hear what they are capable of.

If you are still looking for a break-in amp, I'm sure you've received lots of suggestions but I'll throw in my 2 cents: there's a pair of Boulder 250ae monos for sale now on Audiogon for $2600.

I thought for a long time about used amps, there did not seem to be any good options when I wanted to make the purchase.

albertporter

Owner
Jason,

I'm certain that's good advice and I am interested in Class A amplifiers, both tube and solid state.

The Newport Audio show is coming up soon, I'm going to look and listen there for possible candidates.

albertporter

Owner
I wonder what Focal would say about how to use the GEs with an amp with that kind of protective circuit? Its not an uncommon thing, and probably a good feature for most amps otherwise.

I cannot be certain but I believe Class D amps have much more potential to damage speakers than conventional amps. I don't have proof but there is a long list of do and don't rules that accompany the Bel Canto about ground and hook up.

I suspect I could put the Bel Canto on just about any other speaker and it would work and also think a Pass Labs, Gryphon or other solid state amps with great protection circuits would work with the Grande Utopia.

Again, this is speculation. Obviously I don't have first hand experience. I do know I've heard the Grande several times with solid state and they were shown last week in Germany with solid state. I've never heard of this issue before.

What I might try is play music with VTL and switch to Bel Canto as quickly as possible, while the power to the EM section is still operating. I'll bet it would fire up.

If this turned out to be a wide spread problem the EM power supply could be modified to have option of "On", "Auto On" (search for signal), or off.

Again, this is speculation and may not even be the issue that keeps this from playing. I'm throwing it all out in hope of getting an answer, otherwise I have to give up on the Bel Canto and I don't want to do that.

albertporter

Owner
Lloydelee21.

The sound stage on my Grande Utopia is huge. I'm grateful since I had grown accustomed to a large presentation from my (previous) line array speakers.

Line array can produce images large enough to walk around inside but never as precise as what I'm already getting from the Grande.

I'm running a break in CD right now. Annoying noises is how I would describe it, but all the right frequencies and bandwidth are present. It remains to be seen what the next evolution in break will bring to the sound.

I appreciate your insight.

albertporter

Owner
Thanks Lloydelee21.

albertporter

Owner
Mapman
Also try staggering turning on each BC by 5-10 seconds. They draw a lot of power when first turned on but its clean sailing from there

I don't think powering them up could be the issue. They're mono blocs, seventeen feet apart and each have their own 20A dedicated circuit.

I also tried the stock power cord provided by Bel Canto, just in case my Purist 25th Anniversary AC was incompatible for some strange reason.

I had a pair of small speakers but not now. My son got them when he moved off to college. I may loan the Bel Canto to one of the guys in my group and see if they play at their house. My guess is they will.

albertporter

Owner
Mapman
I doubt its the problem, but check and make sure the xlr/rca input selector switch on the back of the BCs is set properly.

DId that, did not work in either position RCA-XLR) on either amp.

albertporter

Owner
Lloydlee21, maybe I'll get to try a pair of Gryphon with my speakers.

As for your dealer, you did not say what the experience was. Perhaps not as good as you hoped due to break in?

Mine are already wonderful but I think my room makes that somewhat easier. Acoustic treatment is half the system.

albertporter

Owner
I've tried two times now to substitute the Bel Canto Ref 1000 MK2 amps for the VTL 750 and I get no sound.

I'm certain have it hooked up correctly, so perhaps it's possible the protection circuit in the Bel Canto is preventing turn on.

I suspect the EM (field coil) circuit might have something to do with this. The EM outboard power supply turns itself off and looks for signal from the amp before going full on.

It's possible the Bel Canto protection circuit mistakes this as a bad ground or short. The VTL uses completely different protection and works perfect.

I have a call and email into Bel Canto and hope to receive some suggestions. If anyone here at Audiogon has experience with this I would welcome suggestions.

albertporter

Owner
Mapman
Albert,

One question I have is how did you determine where to place the Focals for best results, and would you consider tweaking their physical location if needed moving forward? And if so, how would you do that given the size and weight of the Focals?

Mapman, I'm not even trying at the moment, just put some Scotch blue painters tape on the floor where the Dali wound up and aligned the Focal to that spot.

The speakers require so many hours of break in I don't think I can judge where to best place them until later.

As for size and weight, this model Focal is remarkable. There are some kind of skids or rollers built in the base and all you have to do is put your shoulder into them and push.

Reason I ask is twofold:

1) I'm not sure that best location for speaker a in a room is necessarily the best also for speaker b.

2) I am not familiar with your main amps, but I know introducing the Bel Canto's into my system required some tweaking of speaker location from prior amp.

I agree, but again the Bel Canto are not broken in either so regardless of what I do, the optimum position is likely 250 to 500 hours music time from now.

albertporter

Owner
Mapman
Nice choice of lighting on the BC pic!

I looked for a stock shot but everything was the silver face plate.

I took that with my baby Sony NEX camera with available room light on our dining room table. I cheated a bit to get it to look decent, used a 4' X 8" silver mylar flat to control the light.

albertporter

Owner
Arthursmuck
As always you are my audio idol! Romeocat sends his congratulations...

Funny, how is Romeo Cat, and yourself for that matter? I see you still have Romeo's furry face on your system page.

Come listen with us when time permits.

albertporter

Owner
System edited: Added description and image of new Bel Canto Ref 1000 MK2.

albertporter

Owner
Kmccarty
Albert, the speakers look awesome in your room. Best wishes for many, many years of sonic nirvana!

Well Ken, head on over and listen with us !

Of course you have your own big Focal to listen to and mine aren't broken in yet but they are doing some things I think you will appreciate.

albertporter

Owner
Bigpond
Hi Albert, Well done the speakers look fantastic, it's always a big decision changing anything in a High End System.

Thank you. I was nervous about the change because I loved my Dali Megalines but I'm well pleased with my Utopia.

I recently changed from Tubes to Solid State and was extremely nervous about it but ended up with no regrets at all. I am sure you feel the same already!
Kind Regards Bigpond

Looking at your system I see Gryphon, is that the solid state you went to? If so, I commented on 5-13 about Gryphon.

What tube amps did you replace? I assume this was with your Wilson which is similar efficiency as my speaker.

albertporter

Owner
Adamg
Hi Albert,

Congratulations on the new Grande Utopia EMs. As an owner of the Nova Utopia's, I can assure you that the big Focal line will provide many years of bliss.

I'm already past the initial fear and shock phase. I had real concerns about the beryllium tweeter not being controlled enough for my taste. My fears were unfounded, it's superb. I agree this will provide many years of enjoyment.

Based on your initial photo, I was wondering if you will be leaving the screens on during critical listening? There are obvious sonic benefits with the screens off (and an aesthetic improvement as well). Enjoy!

One of the guys in my music group ask me that last night. It was our first meeting with the new speakers. I probably should have taken them off but they are so new, I have not tried that yet.

I'm sure your right, and they are easy to take on and off.

albertporter

Owner

Mapman,
I heard a pair of Focal Profile floor standers demoed once in comparison to a pair of electrostats, and the sound was very similar in this regard. My little triangle Titus monitors were the speakers that convinced me dynamic designs can seemingly be as fast and detailed as eletrostats or panel speakers. It's something the French sound in particular seems to be a champion of.

I had electrostatics for many, many years and absolutely loved them. When I bought the Dali Megaline it's two way design with ribbons were the attraction, a chance to hold on to what electrostatics do but in a simpler, more reliable package.

Now I have electrostatic transparency, speed and resolution combined with high efficiency and the ultimate reliability. It's amazing how much speaker technology has advanced.

albertporter

Owner
Microstrip
Albert,

Reading your comment about seemingly zero distortion reminds me of an audition of Lavardin mono amplifiers and preamplifier with the Grande Utopia Be - it was really something extraordinary.

I've not heard the Lavardin but in the back of my mind I'm wishing there was a solid state amp (and preamp?) that would equal my tube set up.

The problem with most solid state is failure to deliver texture, warmth and emotion of the music. They do speed, bass control and low distortion easily. You never know, I thought it impossible for a cone speaker to ever reach the speed and resolution of a ribbon but the Focal Grande Utopia exceeds what my ribbons were doing.

Purity of sound wins some meaning when we listen to them.

Absolutely agree.

albertporter

Owner
05-15-13: Rugyboogie
Albert
Ueber cool and congrats on the new speakers.
Heard them at Nuts about Hifi in WA.
Very impressive sounding speaker and gorgeous to boot.
All the best,

Thank you!

albertporter

Owner
Bifwynne
Beautiful!!

My sincere thanks. I appreciate all the support and kind words from each of you.

albertporter

Owner
Mitch4t
I've seen lots of photos of these speakers, but none of the photos ever had anything else in the picture to give any idea of the actual size of the speakers. I knew they were big speakers, but until the photo of them in your living room, I had no idea of their actual size. Incredible scale, and beautiful too.

All I can say is thank you. I think they are beautiful too and equally important my wife loves them.

It will be interesting to hear your comments regarding the differences in amps when the weather cools off when you go back to the tube amps in the winter.

I will have to exercise a bit of patience with the new amps. To be fair they are supposed to also need a couple of hundred hours. I think the best course of action is run them every day and night (when possible) and switch out every Tuesday (our music night) to the VTL.

This will allow me to gauge both the speakers against the sound of both amp designs.

albertporter

Owner
Needfreestuff
It's nice to see someone so dedicated to audio be afforded the opportunity to fulfill his dreams. I hope these speakers are exactly what your looking for. Happy Listening

Bless you for such a kind comment. I sincerely appreciate it.

My dedication to this is due to my love of music. Something happens to me when the equipment is right. It no longer exists, just the emotion of the song.

It happened several times tonight and should not even be working this well with so few hours on the speakers.

albertporter

Owner
Peterayer
Albert, they look great, but I'd love to see a person next to them for scale. They look much larger than I imagined. You are in for a fun ride.

The Grande Utopia EM is about 10" shorter than my 7.5 foot tall Dali, so it's a large speaker.

I'm tempted to post a lot of comments about tonight but will refrain until I have more hours on them. I will say they are incredibly fast and detailed with seemingly zero distortion.

albertporter

Owner
Jasonparmenter
Hi Albert, your new loudspeakers look very impressive set up in your music room, how many guys did you need to help move them in to place. I looked up the weight of your Grande Utopia EM and thought this would they would need a fork lift to move them. I am sure it is now a relief to have them now in place.

I hired five guys and stepped in myself in a couple of situations. They are heavy but I got the piano mover guys to calm down and take their time.

We did use a pallet jack to lift them enough to get a commercial furniture dolly under the large crates. Rolling it inside the mass cracked one of the India slate tiles on our front porch.

No one was hurt, the Focal is fine and no damage to the house. Tonight it was all worth it as we approached fifty hour mark on break in the speaker really began to sing.

albertporter

Owner
System edited: Added: First image of Grande Utopia EM in listening room.

albertporter

Owner
I just received my Bel Canto Ref 1000 MK2 mono blocks.

My wife signed for them with our UPS guy. They are so trim and compact I missed them sitting in our kitchen.

They will be the perfect solid state companion for my Focal with the long hot Texas summer just ahead. I unpacked them and they are well built and an attractive design.

I'm told Bel Canto require a couple of hundred hours of break in, so I'll keep the VTL in the system through Tuesday night music and then switch to the Bel Canto and let both these new guys begin their break in together.

albertporter

Owner
Microstrip,

Thanks for your words of welcome into the Focal family. I have not had enough time to make any real judgement about sound, it will be hundreds of hours before they reach absolute performance.

There are already extraordinary things they bring to the music, things no other speaker has ever done. My only other judgement is by way of close inspection of style and build quality of my Grande Utopia. I am somewhat in awe at the fit and finish of every piece.

I spent a lot of time cleaning them after removing the protective plastic wrap off every square inch. Novus #1 Plexiglas polish was the perfect choice for this project, just as it was for the super gloss finish on JL Audio subs.

As for amps, the VTL 750 I've enjoyed through (now) three pair of speakers will for the time remain my reference. I'm sure there are better amps out there but until the Grande Utopia are fully broken in it would be foolish to experiment.

Your suggestions for solid state intrigue me, I'm attracted to the low maintenance and consistent performance they provide but seldom am I convinced at the emotional level.

For cost no object solid state I suspect Andy at Rockport has the right idea with Gryphon. If I had unlimited funds I would consider them.

I've heard countless hundreds of rooms at audio shows all over the world and still remember one CES walking into the Gryphon room and thought I was listening to tubes.

albertporter

Owner
Lharasim
Congratulations Albert......you have set a new "hi" standard should be "the best you have ever heard" for awhile.. just like all your systems ..well until something else comes along!

I certainly give each system a chance, 23 years passed with only two speakers until these came along. Some audiophiles change speakers every year.

such a life of an audiofile...or should i say toyophile

looking forward to hearing how good this new speaker is..

I don't see music as toys, at least not like some hobbies. I've been in love with music since I was a small child.

albertporter

Owner
Mapman,

I've heard them sound good and bad. Probably like all things high end audio, depends on associated equipment.

albertporter

Owner
05-10-13: Mapman
I can't wait to hear how those tiny little Class D amps do trying to handle those big boys! David versus Goliath! I predict David will have some surprises up his sleeve.

Mapman, I'm looking forward to them.

Man, I can sure tell these Focal are efficient, putting my volume control at a what I think will be background level produced room filling sound.

The Class D Bel Canto have been shipped but I'm not sure when they will arrive.

albertporter

Owner

05-10-13: Jfrech
Oh this topic can deteriorate very fast....

#1 Albert happy they arrived ! Hope you beat the rain !!
#2 Peter, no telling what's really in those boxes ;-)
#3 How do they sound? first impressions?

Hello John.
#1 As posted above I had to wait overnight, just looking at them in the garage.

#2 Fortunately the speakers were in the box and after threatening the movers several times I got them to slow down and get them inside without whacking my nice front door or any of the walls.

#3 They have now been on for just short of three hours. They're trying to be good speakers and make nice music but need some time.

I will say I'm stunned at the Beryllium tweeter responsible for high frequencies. I assumed they would be absolutely unbearable with no hours on them and instead they are very nice.

If break in improves these like other speakers I've owned the Utopia will make me very happy.

albertporter

Owner
05-10-13: Peterayer
I imagined it had something to do with a little blue pill, but let's not go there. Albert, we want to see some photos. It must have been a fun evening.

The guys did not make it, they were slowed down by the rain.

Got another company at 9:30 this morning, they arrived about lunch and we finished at 3:30. It went better than expected.

albertporter

Owner
How do you bend the Focals to look like the pictures? Will they fall over?

They are curled up in the crate waiting to be let out.

albertporter

Owner
Owner
Focal arrived a few minutes ago and are in my garage. I have four guys from a piano moving company on the way, hoping to beat sunset and get these inside.

albertporter

Owner
Bifwynne,

You enjoy the same kind of humor I'm known for.

albertporter

Owner
05-05-13: Richardkrebs
Albert.
Fantastic. You now face an extraordinary and exciting journey discovering what the Utopia's can do.
Isn't our hobby so much fun.

Richard, I'm excited as can be but also trying to not have my expectations set too high. The Grande Utopia EM is a very high resolution speaker and with so many adjustments it's going to take some time to adjust it correctly to my room.

After they are broken in you're invited to visit with us again and listen for yourself.

albertporter

Owner
Sam
Very enamored of the DALI MegaLine III and like you have a tremendous desire to explore custom tube crossovers ;-)

Sonny and I will see you in CA.

You should have bought mine :^). Seriously, the Megaline with one of Tom's custom crossovers is top flight.

I'm looking forward to seeing you and Sonny.

albertporter

Owner
05-06-13: Swanny76109
Albert I definitely will take you up on the kind offer. Unfortunately I have to be out of town this week for meetings but will work out another week soon.

Email me when your schedule permits, we do this every week and have for many years.

I expect to be listening to my new speakers Tuesday 14, provided something does not go wrong. Wish you could have heard the Dali Megaline before I tore that system down. It was an incredibly beautiful sounding speaker.

albertporter

Owner
05-06-13: Knghifi
Albert, Congrats on your new speakers.

If you are looking for a Class D amp, check out Digital Amplifier Company. One of my trusted dealer highly recommends them. You can google for reviews and or checkout AC.

I ordered a pair of new Bel Canto Mono blocks, the 1000 MK2. Thank you for responding.

albertporter

Owner
Swanny76109 (John)

Thanks for the very kind offer. I really should purchase something as I predict break in will take months rather than days.

You are welcome to visit and meet our listening group. Tomorrow night is a Tuesday and a good time if you have an opening.

The owner of the big Harbeth picked up his speakers after being kind enough to loan to me for several weeks. I currently have the small Magneplanar in the system.

I sent you an email too. Hopefully that got through.

albertporter

Owner
Mapman,

The BCs are rock solid amps that I find hard to fault. They are very efficient and never break a sweat driving my fairly large and challenging OHM 5 speakers.

Have never heard the Wyreds but have heard only good things about those as well in similar applications.

I have not heard either of them, but both are a good option for summer weather, especially when I'm considering running 24/7 for several months.

The other option is used (older) conventional solid state amp.

albertporter

Owner
John,

I read a review where Wyred4sound and Bel Canto were compared and it seemed Bel Canto was preferred.

My email is the same as it has been for several years, contact me if you wish.

albertporter

Owner

Thanks William, I hope you find time to come listen with us once these are settled in.

Have you moved everything to Texas or still in the process?

albertporter

Owner
Does anyone have experience with Bel Canto Ref 1000 MK2 Class D amps?

I'm thinking about buying a pair so I can run the new Focal twenty four hours a day for the next few months.

With summer heat coming and current price of 6550 output tubes I don't think the VTL 750 are a good candidate for the job.

albertporter

Owner
Sunnyboy1956,

You're welcome to come listen, just contact me through Audiogon and set a date. If that happens to be on a Tuesday, you can meet our music group that evening.

I suspect the Focal will not be impressive for many weeks. Focal suggests 250 hours for break in but I suspect more will be required. The Dali Megaline set a new (long) break in record, 700 hours before they stopped improving completely.

Hopefully the Focal is somewhere in between but with break in achieved there is room placement, footers, driver alignment and crossover adjustment available.

Last is system tweaks and tubes. I have a lot of work ahead of me and much to learn.

albertporter

Owner
Lloydelee21,

The Focal is all I plan on changing right now, the rest of my equipment will stay at least until I determine how all this will interact.

I sold a lot of equipment that supported the Dali. The Focal is much simpler and the sale of that excess gear helped finance the speaker change.

The front end of my system will not change, at least not the Studer or turntable and cartridges. The preamp and phono should be safe but I always keep an open mind when offered the chance to experiment.

albertporter

Owner
05-03-13: Peterayer
Albert, congratulations. I'm glad I've put off my trip to Dallas. Perhaps someday I will be fortunate enough to visit you and hear the new system.

I have to ask the unasked question: Were flagships from Wilson or Magico ever under consideration?

I hope you will make that trip and perhaps David can come too. Our plans for that last meet got cancelled and I was disappointed.

As for Wilson and Magico, no they were not on my list although certainly Nothing wrong with either of them.

albertporter

Owner
Raytheprinter
Congratulations Albert !Im sure this is a move you have thought out well.

You have heard the best audio has to offer,time and time again. There must be something about the Focals that does it for you. As always, looking forward to your continuing journey!

Thank you Ray, that's a very kind compliment.

All of us are looking for a combination that makes us happy. There are compromises with each selection and I searched this past three years trying to find something that would be better than the Dali.

I didn't mention all that much here in forums but I was waiting on Avalon Acoustics new speaker. I was convinced it was going to be the one for me.

Now that it's fully disclosed and retail price is supposed to be $300,000.00 I dismissed it. I would still like to hear it but no way I can own it.

albertporter

Owner
Mikelavigne

Albert, Congrats on the new speakers.

The big Focals never fail to impress me at shows when fed properly. which you no doubt will most certainly do.

I’m very happy for you and enjoy!

Next time I’m in the neighborhood I’ll be sure to stop by and hear them for myself.

You are welcome to visit anytime, I hope it's after I have some break in on these and adjustments made. No doubt you have the big four tower MM7 dialed in by now so your expectations will be high.

albertporter

Owner
Can you over time reveal your decision making - the MM7s and Arrakis' esp. are as SOTA as things get, your final choice must have had deciding factors the losers didn't possess.

If I had an absolutely unlimited budget I would have considered the Arrakis more seriously. The Grande Utopia EM are already budget stressing and the Arrakis is $40K more.

Remember too, for best results Andy fits the Arrakis with outboard crossover which requires four mono amps. I lived with that this past 10 years with the Dali and no question that method has clear advantages, but I really want to simplify.

I think the Grande EM will do just about everything my space is capable of supporting, plus they are highly adjustable, very efficient and very beautiful too look at.

The Rockport Altair was a different issue. Certainly affordable at half the price of the Focal and very high performance. In the end I could not adjust to the idea of buying a speaker half the size of what I've lived with for the past 23 years.

That decision could well be a mistake, they sounded excellent at the last show but at some point this all comes down to making a decision and some of that is emotional. Truth is, none of these have any serious flaws but neither are any of them perfect.

Regarding the MM7 , it's the right size, only slightly shorter than the Dali but is four towers. The four towers is what makes it a top contender but I'm not sure my 18 foot width would properly support that design.

I visited Mike L. and although he did not have the MM7 at that time, I suspect the EV four piece setup would be an ideal match for his space.

albertporter

Owner
I received notice that the Focal Grande Utopia EM will deliver here on or about May 8.

albertporter

Owner
Zu's flagship Dominance I do lust over, they always seem to be a brand passed over by big ticket purchasers such as yourself (no criticism implied), whereas the usual suspects (Wilson/ Magico/Rockport/YG et al) are always in the frame. Check out the Dominance on Zu's website - do you think this could have suited your needs?
Spiritofmusic

Spirit, I hate to admit it but I was not even aware that model existed and I go to just about every show. The specifications are amazing.

I provided a list of candidates since I was asked.

I'm sure there are many brands I left off and possibly should have considered. The list came from listening experience, friends recommendations and industry relations.

albertporter

Owner
05-01-13: Lapierre
Nice pickup AP!!!

Midrange and tweeter envy plus large 16" woofer..."can you dig it!"

VTLs will be happy.

Thank you Lapierre. I hope they are all I expect them to be. Yes, the woofer is rated to 14Hz.

albertporter

Owner
05-01-13: Mapman
Would also be interested in hearing what other options you considered and how you ended up with the Focals. Thanks.

I've gotten several email messages asking that same question, so I'll list all the speakers I considered (no particular order) over the past two or three years.

Dynaudio Evidence Master
Dynaudio Evidence Platinum
Rockport Altair
Rockport Arrakis
Peak Consult Typhoeus Momentum
Peak Consult Dragon Momentum
Avalon Tesseract
Evolution Acoustics MM7
(Keep my) Dali Megaline III
YG Acoustics Anat
YG Acoustics Sonja
Stella Focal
Focal Grande Utopia EM

This is not to say what I choose is better than anything on my list, but rather my choice considering my room, sonic preferences and budget.

I admit there were also cosmetic preferences that played a role in this.

albertporter

Owner
Mapman
Albert, two innovative things about those speakers that I would expect can help push performance to highest levels possible, once set up right:

1) adjustable articulated cabinets. Might take a while to get setup just right but should be worth it in the end.

2) 16" high efficiency field coil bass drivers

Those are two technology features that pushed me to the big Focal. The adjustment is via a crank and there's a numerical display so you can repeat any setting.

Equally important is the back of each section has adjustment for EQ of that driver to balance that section to the room in combination with the mechanical adjustment.

I think break in will be necessary before I experiment with all those options but it's comforting to know they are there.

albertporter

Owner
I expect the Focal Grande Utopia will require several hundred hours of break in. With Summer coming and price of output tubes I don't want to use my VTL 750 for this chore.

I have not owned solid state in 30 years, would appreciate suggestion for something very inexpensive for this task and maybe I could keep afterward as a spare.

I see several pair of PS Audio Delta 250 mono blocks for cheap, anyone care to comment? Also maybe a Class D would be OK for this task?

I need mono blocks due to my room design and equipment layout.

albertporter

Owner
04-30-13: Mapman
I think those are the "grandest" of the Grand Utopias that I have heard at Lyric in NYC (running off large ARC tube amps I think) and another shop in DC area.

Have never heard Focals I didn't like...

Very nice indeed. Enjoy!

Yes, these are the best from Focal and I plan on running them on tubes as well. VTL for sure to begin with and then work from there. The cool part is the 94-95 DB efficiency level. I can now consider a very wide range of amps.

04-30-13: Mapman
16" field coil bass drivers for high efficiency! Nice! Batten down the hatches!

That was one of the primary attractions, a speaker that would not require sub woofers.

albertporter

Owner
04-30-13: Jasonparmenter
Congratulations Albert on your new loudspeakers, fun times a head for you.

Thank you Jason !

I have a great deal of work ahead and I'm eager to get started with the break in process and adjustment.

albertporter

Owner
04-30-13: Dev
Albert, congrats! on your new acquisition.

Wow what a change, looks like a whole new journey for you including what will in the end feed them.

Kindly do share what lead you down this path.

Thank you Dev!

This is a whole new journey, I don't change speakers often, only two pair in 22 years until the Focal.

I've been looking for at least three years. I started with a fairly long list and an open mind. There are a lot of choices out there and multiple brands that deserve consideration.

albertporter

Owner
04-30-13: Jfrech
Congrats to your friend, I know he is getting a fantastic speaker system! Now so are you ;-) !!

Thank you John, we need to visit each other once we have our systems back in order. I really want to hear the Rockport in your room.

albertporter

Owner
System edited: Corrected system description.

albertporter

Owner
System edited: I'll provide Focal in room images once they are set up.

albertporter

Owner
The Dali ad here at Audiogon got a lot of response but in the end sold to a friend who heard them in my system.

As soon as I know delivery date for my new speakers I'll post here.

albertporter

Owner
Yes, same sources and staying with Allnic and one pair of VTL amps.

The proposed speaker is very efficient. Once details are settled I will be looking for suggestions. It might be the VTL is not necessary.

Do you still have your Dali speakers? I hope I don't regret selling mine, they are incredible.

albertporter

Owner
System edited: System edited, equipment deleted as I move toward new setup

albertporter

Owner
Albert, do your Megalines continue to amaze you? If so, you might well regret the change

Yes, I worry how a change will turn out.

I think many have reached a level that is so high that any material improvement would cost a great deal more to achieve, especially when one factors in the often pretty low resale value of used speakers.

Agree, the Megaline is extraordinary and mine have so much work on the crossover they are literally unique in the world.

What I'm expecting to get for them will hardly put a dent in cost of the replacement.

albertporter

Owner
04-05-13: Knghifi
Albert, with the level of your system, any move is lateral for something DIFFERENT rather than superior. Good luck with your new system ... sure it'll be lots of fun.

Yep, I've posted that several times myself. There is a limit where you reach the 7 out of 10 scale. 10 is the perfect speaker and something that will never be achieved (at least not in our lifetime).

So somewhere between a 7 or 8 is real world.

Someday there will be a 9, SUPER speaker. One so good that literally every listener would say "Wow, I want those in my home, it's exactly what I've been looking for."

I don't know of a speaker right now that makes everyone happy and certainly there is no perfect 10 speaker.

My guess is that when I'm done, assuming it works out, that I have a 7 or 8 speaker now and will get another 7 or 8 speaker that I'll have to work with for best sound.

Thanks to each of you for the well wishes. I'll need it to get where the Megaline is already.

albertporter

Owner

04-05-13: Lapierre
Good luck with the new direction.

Agree with the insane speaker prices. I do try to keep myself in check with looking at value and innovation.

I go to a lot of audio shows and there are typically several rooms with ultra high end speakers. Conditions being a small hotel room and one day set up make it difficult to have great sound. Many times the last day before everything is turned off is when it's just getting good.

It's an impossible job, even for experienced people in the industry.

Those conditions is what makes it hard to choose a new speaker and I've been actively looking for about three years.

Then there's the fact my Megaline has amazed quite a few people, including some very experienced manufacturers. That makes me nervous about change.

albertporter

Owner
Mapman and Lloydelee21,

It's not really a secret, but I'm working on it and have a silly personal belief that if I get over confident I'll jinx the deal :-).

It's going to be tough getting equal performance to Dali Megaline with custom crossover. Prices on top speakers today is insane, especially compared to what I'm asking for the Dali.

albertporter

Owner
Lapierre,

Not the fault of the JL, they are perfect. I'm looking at changes to my system so subs would not be required.

albertporter

Owner
Roy,

That's the same experience I had, over damped and dull with damping. The SME arm is already one of the most controlled and damped arms made, adding damping was just too much.

I have not tried the Dynavector XV-1 but heard it several times at a friends home here in Dallas. A great cartridge, one of the contenders for top slots.

albertporter

Owner
System edited: Corrections on components and descriptions.

albertporter

Owner
Ddriveman,

My favorite mat is indeed the TTM Stainless and I use it with the oil filled TTM spindle weight.

I'm not sure I would use this mat with a MK2 due to weight but it's fine with MK3.

Do you still have the Micro Seiki MAX 282 shown in your system thread? I sometimes regret selling mine, it's a superb arm.

albertporter

Owner
I'll be interested to see what they come up with and what it costs.

albertporter

Owner
Pass Labs has a platter.

They well may have built their own plinth too but the platter is reported to be stainless steel, perhaps making the sound of the MK2 more like a MK3 with TTM Stainless mat.

albertporter

Owner
Two more enhancements for Technics coming. One applies only to MK3 and the other is for both MK2 and MK3.

I'll post details once I hear one or both of these.

Also, Pass Labs is into Technics big time. They have a new platter design for the MK2. From the description I'm betting it will be superb, they have great engineering ability.

albertporter

Owner
Jason,

If you find more than one I would not mind having an extra. Especially a nice, clean one.

albertporter

Owner
Jason,

You can get the Micro Seiki Cu180 off Ebay or maybe even here at Audiogon. There is also a Cu500 version but I think it's too much mass for the MK2.

An easy solution is the Boston carbon fiber mat. I've owned all of them including the Funk Firm, Micro Seiki, Oyaide, multiple TT Weights and TTM I currently use.

The best thing about the Boston mat is it's price, even if purchased new. I don't think it offers as much isolation from the MK2 motor and electronics as the Micro Seiki so it's a trade off of availability, price and performance.

albertporter

Owner
3 dates: 3/5, 3/19 or 3/26. Any of them make a difference to you?

All are good for me.

Feb, 26 (Tuesday) I have Stahl~Tek here to do new product photography. You can bet I'm going to listen to this new DAC.

albertporter

Owner

Ed,

I'm looking forward to your visit too, hope that happens soon.

We can begin with the Atlas on the Graham and after you're familiar, move it to the SME V12. I've done this so much these last few months we won't loose that much time.

Listening to these two combinations will show how the cartridge and arm interaction affect the sound. It's amazing how many similarities the Air Tight and Atlas share when set up perfectly in identical SME V12.

I'm looking forward to your reaction and comments, If your stay lands on a Tuesday our listening group will be here for you to meet.

albertporter

Owner
Peter,

At this point, prior to testing the new Triplanar 12" the two tonearms will both be SME V-12.

Not sure yet about second cartridge but absolutely the Air Tight Supreme has a spot. I'm thinking about the new My Sonic Signature Gold that's due this month as well as the Goldfinger and see how they go against the Lyra Atlas.

I have an offer on the Goldfinger for audition but have not checked on availability of the My Sonic.

albertporter

Owner
Hello Ed and Peter,

The Graham benefited very slightly from the new set up template so I'm thinking Mint was correct that the SME V-12 template plus careful mounting provides same set up geometry.

I hate to be so direct but everyone prefers the Atlas in the V-12 over Atlas with Graham. SME is more controlled, deeper bass and better micro detail.

I have not tried the Supreme in the Graham but after all these tests I'm certain how this will translate. The Air Tight is better off where it is.

The comparison between the Micro Seiki and Graham are just as interesting. The Micro Seiki had better bass than the Graham, in fact close to the SME. The high frequencies on the Micro were brighter than Graham with two of the headshells we tested with and darker than the Graham with one of the headshells.

I'm looking forward to settling in to my two final tonearms and letting go on this. I like several of these other arms but in the end I find myself listening to what I like best so the alternative just sit's there and looks cool but no air time.

Please understand too, this is much like comparing pressings on LPs. Same music and great sound, we are slicing this down to a fine line and pulling apart everything to get a "winner."

albertporter

Owner

Graham remounted today and initial set up performed. Tomorrow I will spend whatever time necessary with Mint Tractor before everyone arrives for Tuesday night music.

We will do initial comparison and go from there.

albertporter

Owner
Jfrech,

I have not spoken to Tri about it, I need to finish up with the Graham first. If you are in town you might come by and listen. I should have it set up and running in a few days.

I have the V-12 with both of these carts pretty well burned in my musical memory. I'm ready to move to the Graham again, then the Triplanar.

Rick was here Tuesday night (manufacturer of High Fidelity Cables) and he went crazy over the V-12 + Supreme.

He was not at all fond of the Lyra with V-12 and that's the best it's sounded, at least to me. Another example of how complicated high end audio can be.

albertporter

Owner
Peter,

I need to rule out the variables and if I switch both carts I might loose track. I listen very carefully since most of this is my stuff and no need to rush.

I do need to get the Graham back to my friend who loaned it to me. Plan is he will fly here for the final listening test which will be great.

albertporter

Owner
Whart,

Correct. The Lyra is one of the most sensitive to VTA of all. Tracking force of 1/100th of a gram is also audible but that is also true for the Koetsu Coralstone, Supreme and several other top carts.

I'm mentally preparing for the move of Lyra Atlas to the Graham 12" from SME V12. This time the set up should benefit from purpose designed Mint Tractor and Fozgometer.

If I can put this to bed I want to explore the revised Goldfinger cartridge. It's supposed to be king of all carts on dynamics. Unknown about tonal balance and other crucial points of judgement.

albertporter

Owner
Repaired link:

Technics SP10 upgrade

albertporter

Owner
We had a great listening session this evening. About seven of us including Rick Schultz and his beautiful wife were here.

We listened to a new RCA cable in Rick's High Fidelity cable line. I think this one is less than $6K, but I need to verify.

We put it in the RCA position between my preamp and the Dali electronic crossover. It was brand new and a bit compressed at first but opened up at light speed, making it's way to glorious sound in only a few hours.

Fortunately it is still here for me to play with. I'll post more when I have time to listen longer term.

albertporter

Owner

I get the impression that all things considered, you are probably leaning toward the Airtight

We've listened together here many times so you're familiar with how I've tuned everything including my listening bias.

When I test these two cartridges in two identical SME V12 arms using "perfect" records, (titles frequently used for demo at shows), the Atlas is incredible and easily one of the best I've ever heard.

Pull any of the other five thousand titles that's engineering and recording excellence ranges from "good" to "tolerable" and the Air Tight allows one to listen without gritting your teeth.

Like all things high end audio, it is possible to get the entire system so high resolution that you can tell if the singer has had their tonsils out or not.

Sometimes it's too much, at least with ribbon drivers. There are times I prefer to just listen and enjoy the song, warts and all :^).

I can imagine countless systems that are balanced different than mine where the Lyra Atlas would be pronounced the worlds best without being wrong. It's all a game of trying to make things work in a very complicated mix of equipment, software and room.

albertporter

Owner
Ed,

So far, the Lyra sounds better in the V12 than any other arm we've had it teamed up with. We still have to test Atlas in the Graham 12" set up with the new custom Mint Tractor and see if the Fozgometer helps too.

I'm told the Atlas puts a LOT of energy into the tonearm. I think the V12 does a better job of controlling that so the high frequencies are better balanced and the wide range of color and tone are revealed.

The sound stage has always been more forward with Atlas than the Coralstone, PC-1, Benz and Air Tight Supreme. That's it's design and true to the Lyra line in general. Lyra is famous for detail, speed and leading edge.

Now that both cartridges are on identical arms I am left to describe only the differences between the cartridges, rather than the differences in the arms.

All the tonearms sound and react different, many of them are superb as I've stated already. I especially liked the Micro Seiki MAX but even with the best internal wire, best headshell and best headshell leads it did not resolve small detail and dynamics as well as the V12 and it tended to be brighter in the upper midrange and highs than the SME 312S and V12.

In all fairness the V12 is the most expensive arm I've had on the MK3. That does not guarantee performance but in this case it needs to be better if for no other reason than cost.

I still have the Triplanar to test. This will take awhile.

albertporter

Owner

Peter,
My suspicion is that the V12 would tame a bit of the high energy of the Atlas. Perhaps the Atlas is just as detailed and revealing as before but now has a bit of the fullness/warmth of the Supreme?

You are partially correct. The V12 did tame the high energy of the Atlas and retained all the detail it's famous for but it did not add fullness or warmth.

There were only five of us making comparison last night but everyone heard the same differences. On Fiona Apple (The Idler Wheel) with Lyra, the vocals were almost "elbows on stage." The Lyra was at least row eight. Huge difference in presentation.

And yes, Fiona's LP is an "up front" decidedly pop LP but a good recording and great fun.

After we switched to Melody Gardot new LP "The Absence" the bass became less of a factor for comparison but the richness of voice and background differences were just as pronounced in the way the two cartridges presented the music.

We spun a few reissue Blue Notes and also Charlie Haden "Rambling' Boy" (Decca) LP with Elvis Costello and Pat Metheny. Amazing harmony on this one as well as accompaniment by Ricky Skaggs, Vince Gill and Bruce Hornsby.

An important finding, something that we played with all night was VTA and track force. The Lyra was changing HUGE with 1/100th of a gram as we tried to balance the background image and detail behind the vocals to match the Air Tight. We managed to find the absolute sweet spot for dynamics but never could catch the Air Tight on the other strengths.

The Air Tight painted a deeper stage and details within the stage, including the "brass" of the cymbal (mixed deep in the background) was much more distinct compared to the Lyra. The Lyra is absolutely more spectacular on first blush but the Air Tight sucks you in and allows you to appreciate tiny details and images deep into the music.

One of the last LPs was Nina Simone, "Pastel Blues" (1965). Here is where the voice is all important. I think the Air Tight won here easily but like all other things, in the ear of the beholder.

I suspect other listeners with other systems and rooms could completely reverse the experience we had. This is a great experience to listen to two world class cartridges on the same table and arm.

After the session I got involved in conversation with a friend in HK and stayed up way too late. Made me grumpy Wed AM :^).

albertporter

Owner
Ed,

You know without being told that you are welcome any time your schedule permits.

Sound last night was great from both cartridges. Amazing how much the Lyra changed personality when mounted in the SME V12.

albertporter

Owner
01-29-13: Richardkrebs
Albert.
It will be interesting to hear if you can dial the Graham and SME in any tighter with the Fosgate/Fozgometer.

As I replied to Peter, I don't think it will hurt to have the tool but I won't know it's real value until it's put to the test.

Some good news, I just received the Mint Protractor custom built for the new 12" Graham tonearm.

I have my usual group arriving for music in a couple of hours so moving the Lyra over to the Graham and playing with the Fozgometer and new Mint tractor will have to wait.

albertporter

Owner
Peter

01-29-13: Peterayer
Hi Albert, I tried the Fozgometer and HiFI+ test LP on my SME V-12 the other night. It was useful to show me that my channel separation was spot on,

Both my SME V12 arms image properly and have same channel balance as my digital sources so I assume it's very close. The Fozgometer is always spoken of in a way that indicates it's a necessity. This way I can set by ear and meter and determine the real value.

I suspect it will be of more value on the Triplanar and Graham but it cost nothing to experiment now that I own the tool.

albertporter

Owner
I bought a new Fosgate/Fozgometer at CES. Received it a few days ago and looking forward to using it on the Graham and SME.

albertporter

Owner
Lawrence,

You're welcome to come listen. If you wish we can switch between Purist copper and Purist silver so you can hear for yourself what I describe.

Some silver cables have the signature you describe but wire geometry, gauge and insulator all play in final performance and tonal balance.

Purist 25th Anniversary has the positive attributes of super pure copper but improves on that with lower distortion, improved dynamics, higher resolution and improved bandwidth.

John Frech posted
I've heard Albert's system...he has a lot of silver cable...maybe nearly all...It's a VERY warm and engaging system...but no loss of resolution
He is a long time friend who's listened to my system for many years, both before and after the inclusion of 100% silver.

Last, I read about health issues with RF meters. Better safe than sorry but I hope for the publics sake this turns out to be like the cell phone scare.

albertporter

Owner
from what you are saying maybe his system is really sucked out and rolled off and these bring back some of the missing balance?! its that or???

No, actually Purist Proteus Praesto (copper) and 25th Anniversary (silver) have almost exactly the same tonal balance but with the 25th Anniversary showing greater dynamics and resolution. No part of the frequency range sticks out anywhere, very neutral sound.

You seem to think that your experiments with copper and silver are the last word in tonal balance without considering other peoples work.

As for the meter, I had an engineer from TXU Energy come out who was gracious enough to disconnect the entire RF section where the meter reads manually again. I may get billed extra for meter reader trips to my home but at least my mind is at peace over the issue.

albertporter

Owner
I just received ship confirmation from Yip at Mint protractor. The custom protractor for Graham Phantom 12" is on the way.

albertporter

Owner
01-16-13: Lharasim
Hello Albert, for the life of me I cannot understand why anyone would use silver in any audio cables...IMO silver oh so exaggerates upper mid and hi frequencies are we going def?

Lawrence,

I don't know how much experience you have with cable but sound varies a lot from brand to brand depending on design as much as material choice.

The Purist 25th Anniversary silver is less "bright" than many cables that are 100% copper conductor.

albertporter

Owner
01-16-13: Jfrech
Hi Albert...just curious...is the arm wired with Purist internally or some other brand...just peaked my curiosity based on the RCA jacks...

The 12" Triplanar will have internal wire chosen by Tri, the only modification is Purist connectors which Tri suggested.

albertporter

Owner
The new Triplanar 12" looks super nice, saw it at THE Show in Vegas. I have one coming with silver wire and Purist silver RCA jacks.

albertporter

Owner
Jazzkid,

The Sound-Lab is a very phase accurate speaker, it will be a lot of work to integrate subs.

Twin subs are probably necessary and if possible, take the deepest bass load off the Sound-Lab so it's free to produce the mid bass and midrange with greater dynamics. It might even allow higher sound pressure levels and lower distortion.

This would require a cap at the input of your amp to roll off the bass and then set up the subs up to fill in below that.

albertporter

Owner
Hello Jazzkid,

I bought the Megaline in 2004 and enjoyed them for six years before adding subs. For most music the Megaline is fine. They have reasonably flat bass response to 30 HZ, which covers most of the music.

The ribbon is it's strength, beautiful, quick midrange and ultra low distortion which I what I wanted, coming from years with electrostatics.

I think the Megaline is better with subs provided the sub is fast and has an easy platform for adjustment. Like most new sub woofer owners I had everything screwed up at first. Too much bass, crossover frequency set too high and slope was not narrow enough.

I should give credit to JL Audio engineering department who spent a great deal of time with me on the phone before and after the purchase. I was open about searching other brands as well as other models within the JL Audio line.

I choose twin JL F212 rather than my first and second idea about how to go about this and based on where I am now I don't think it could have worked out better.

Currently It's impossible to tell the subs from the Megaline, they are one at all volume levels and with all music and even images correctly.

albertporter

Owner
Spiritofmusic,

I know idler or rim drive have attributes that are desirable. Regarding your question, "will belt drive rule the roost."

Based on sales alone the answer will likely be, "yes."

Belt drive is typically very reliable and has super signal to noise ratio. I suspect VPI belt drive outsell every other drive system out there and frankly I'm glad LPs have that support.

If enough people show interest in other drives, manufacturers will offer. We have examples from direct and rim drive right now that did not exist a few years ago.

albertporter

Owner
01-02-13: Jfrech
Wow, is your system sounding AMAZING !! So glad I stopped by last night. The addition on the SME V-12 arm to your Technics SP10 MK3 really took the resolution went up or the distortion went down...or both!

Really the best vinyl based system I've heard.

My sincere thanks John, I wish you still lived in Dallas so we could share Tuesday night music more often.

After CES if you can find a spot in your schedule I'll drive down to listen with you and bring some goodies for us to compare. I'm very eager to hear the improvements you've made to your room.

albertporter

Owner
Whart,

Rubber Soul is one of my favorite Beatles albums. I bought master dub tape of it and Revolver a short while back. They are both incredible, I wish all the LPs sounded this perfect.

When you move to Austin you must set aside time to come listen with us. I'll play the Beatles tapes for you and whatever else you wish from the library.

Best Holiday Wishes for you and family as well.

albertporter

Owner
That's a nice lookin' bunch 'o tapes in the photo...
Come listen to them with me Joe.

Merry Christmas to you and your family as well.

albertporter

Owner
I placed the order with Yip, no response yet on delivery date.

Late last night I removed the Graham and installed the second SME V-12. The Lyra Atlas moved to the SME as well.

The Graham will move to the break in rig until the new protractor arrives and I'll start tweaking the V-12 and see how the Atlas likes that platform.

albertporter

Owner
I love puns.

My wife is tired of them, says they are Pun ishment.

albertporter

Owner

Jazdoc,

I agree, the question was "sort of" directed to the owner of the Graham who would pay for the protractor and take possession of it once this test is over.

Should I choose the Graham and have one Phantom and one SME V-12 then it would be a moot point since I would require a dedicated Mint for every arm.

Now with the test possibly including the new 12" Triplanar I may have to order a Mint for that as well.

This could take more time than I originally thought.

albertporter

Owner
Peterayer
Albert, for years now I've been hearing from owners of the Triplanar and the Graham that the 9" versions smoke the SME V arm. That there really is no comparison and that in order to hear what a great cartridge like the Supreme can really do, one can't audition it on an SME arm.

That might be true for the 9" SME, I don't know because I've never owned one. It is not true for the SME 312S or V-12.

I think the appropriate thing to say is it's not certain the Graham is at maximum performance in my system but at this time both it and the two SME are perhaps "equal but different."

I have a bias for the SME, I simply like what it sounds like so I need time to readjust and accept the presentation of the other arms.

What I'm certain of right now is the new 12" Graham Phantom is the finest Graham I've ever heard and by a large margin. It smokes the older versions that I owned.

In short, It's an excellent arm by any standard and safe to say there will be audiophiles that prefer it over all other offerings.

albertporter

Owner
I've had several people email me, asking about the mystery tonearm. It will not be a secret for long, it will be shown at CES on a Technics MK3 and one of our plinths.

Triplanar 12" with SME mount is being tested today by Tri and he promised to call and give me an update.

My understanding is this new arm employs composites for the arm wand so the mass about the same as the current version. Also look for a new representative for the line as the marketing arm for Tri Mai.

albertporter

Owner

Ed,

I just got word from Yip at Mint. Here is what he wrote:

Now your Tractor 82395 has an effective length of 309.05. the Mounting distance should be 295.85.

The difference is very small and you should be able to use it for the Graham. The only thing to note is the Mounting Distance, first use a domestic ruler to fix the distance and fine tune it by making sure the stylus tip falls on each and every point on the effective length arc.

Hope this helps,

Merry Christmas,

I already did that based on numbers provided by Musical Surroundings and having other alignment tools here.

Do you think it's a good idea to have Yip build a perfect, dedicated version for the Graham?

albertporter

Owner

I got a call from a friend and manufacturer today about the introduction of a new 12" tonearm based on a familiar and competent design.

I have a meeting set up with him at CES. I may get the prototype for trial. Noting like having too many irons (or tonearms) in the fire at once.

albertporter

Owner
12-19-12: Cipherjuris
I sent it in for an upgrade from the Phantom 1 to the current model. But what came back looked like a brand new arm...... I think he just sent me a new arm.

Likely assumption, I should consider the Graham internal wire as "not" broken in.

The SME V-12 should be good now, it's been on break in rig for about 350 hours.

Depending on availability of alignment tools for the Graham, I may swap positions and put the SME on the MK3 and Graham on the break in rig while I wait for set up tools.

albertporter

Owner
12-19-12: Peterayer
Albert, Based on last night's initial impression of the Phantom, can you make any meaningful conclusions about how it compares to the V-12 (with different cartridges) or to your old Micro Seiki arm, which had the same Atlas in it? I'm planning to swap my Supreme with a friend's Atlas next May for a month or so. We both have V-12 arms.

The Graham needs more time for break in and I'm hoping to get Yip to build a proper template for set up. We all know how important that is to final sound and I'm not certain the Graham is at 100% yet.

I have no more information on the Graham, the only facts I have were not from Bob himself but rather from Musical Surroundings. Like all small "hand made" companies Bob Graham is likely overwhelmed with delivering tonearms (all lengths) and has not completed all the set up jigs for headshells.

Yes, I personally would have made that a first order priority but I'm not in his seat trying to please everyone.

In any case, if Yip comes up with a proper template it should not matter. Meanwhile perhaps I should shoot a message to Dertonearm and ask if he has a template for the Uni Pro.

I already own one so perhaps that's another option.

albertporter

Owner
Albert, that's great! Is the wire in the arm broken in yet?

Hope you have a great listening session tonight!

Ed

Was that Graham brand new? For some reason I thought it was used and then upgraded.

The listening session this evening was good, we were all over the map on content and gave both arms and cartridges a chance to show off. I don't think I'm getting 100% out of the Graham yet. I called Musical Surroundings and got all the specifications. I sent an email to Yip at Mint Protractor asking his advice.

If Yip can build a protractor that will get more performance out of the Graham, I'm ordering it.

Musical Surroundings said Bob Graham was not finished with the headshell template. My impression was Bob is building a separate tool to align 9", 10" and 12" arm wands.

albertporter

Owner
I have about 600 hours on the Oppo BDP-105 and using Purist USB cable feeding it from Mac Mini is a great way to get musical jukebox on the cheap.

I've had a few Blue Note reissues playing today, Lou Donaldson Alligator Bogaloo on while I work. Ability to control from iPad and phone is a bonus.

albertporter

Owner

Update, Graham is running with the Lyra Atlas and I'm pleasantly surprised. It's not only a great sounding arm the combo seems to be a good match.

Should have a better idea after listening tomorrow and into Tuesday night session with my group. It will be interesting to see what everyone else thinks about the combo.

albertporter

Owner
12-09-12: Kmccarty
Albert, please post one of your stunning photographs with the Graham Phantom mounted on that beautiful plinth.

It won't be the same light in my listening room as in the photo studio but I'll try to get a decent shot for everyone to see.

I like the Graham looks, wish it were silver and black, that's what my other Graham tonearms were.

albertporter

Owner
Thank you Ed.

albertporter

Owner
I appreciate the compliments of my images. I've mentioned several times that I did ad photography for quite a few high end audio companies.

The link below is an ad for Basis, Benz and Graham. This was also a Hazylight image but with Sinar camera and Ektachrome 4X5 transparency film.

Some attributes of film still surpass digital.

Basis Benz ad

albertporter

Owner
12-08-12: Richardkrebs
Albert
I agree with the other comments. Astonishing clarity in those photos. Have you ever considered a career in photography:-)

Again I wish I could be there for the arms race. That would be so much fun.

I wish the photography profession was what it once was.

As for the arms race, it's taking forever. I've been doing this since before your visit and still not through. I don't rush it, try to enjoy the music rather than make it a test or chore.

Listening with my group of music lovers and judging from the heart is always the best way. I would welcome you to every session if you did not have to travel half way around the world each visit.

Your name comes up often and Bill Thalmann too. I am grateful for the 20 years work you did to come up with the modifications for the turntable.

The word modification is not strong enough. Transformation is closer to the truth.

albertporter

Owner
12-08-12: Cipherjuris
The Hazylight's cost dwarfs the camera's!

Ed

True.

Oddly enough the B&H price is just the housing. Flash head, power generator, counter reflector and stand are all extra. Sort of like high end audio when you buy something great only to find out that's just the start.

The reason for Sinar Bron Hazylight was the Sinar film camera, capable of 4X5, 5X7 and 8X10 film. The appropriate Schneider and Rodenstock lenses had minimum aperture of f/64 or smaller.

Some studio shots require very small aperture for depth of field so a powerful light source is vital, not to mention it must have perfect color.

The Hazylight with twin flash tubes and the big power pack could produce F/90 in a single flash (4000 watts).

For the Nikon I used my smallest pack, the 1000 watt. Even then it had to be dialed down to 1/8 power. It's bordering on too much for a small digital camera like the Nikon but man does it produce beautiful light.

albertporter

Owner
Use an old VCR or other cheap patch cable, RCA to RCA.

Cut off one end and strip back the insulation on both shield and center conductors. Center conductor becomes "hot" and shield is "ground."

Solder pins onto these bare wires, I use RS232 Crimp Pin female machine type. Got mine at Frys Electronics for $5.99 for a package of 25.

Using the RCA end of this cable, plug that into the Oppo dedicated stereo out jacks. The end with solder pins plugs into Red, Green, White and Blue on the tonearm headshell leads.

Pay attention that (+) and (-) of these pins go to correct headshell leads.

Attach the tonearm cable if it's removable type (mine is Purist DIN to RCA removable) into the base of the tonearm, RCA goes into a spare HIGH level input of your preamp.

Now when there is signal at the Oppo RCA out, the tonearm is part of the signal chain into the preamp. You can use CD, Netflix, Blue Ray or whatever you want to throw in as signal.

I always verify signal completion by turning on the system briefly and listening for full bandwidth on both channels.

Maybe I can do images if my description is not clear.

Also, a variation of this can break in the phono stage without dropping the needle on the LP. Especially useful when phono stage is new and the cartridge needs no additional break in.

albertporter

Owner
Albert, Will you also be mounting the Supreme on the Phantom or just the Atlas?

Peter,

The Atlas on the Phantom to begin with, since I just removed it from the Micro Seiki MAX.

If the Phantom does not perform as well with Atlas as it did on the MAX 282 the test is over.

If it's better than the MAX, depending on how close it gets to the V-12 I will then decide to move the Air Tight Supreme and make another comparison.

My second SME V-12 is hooked up to the new Oppo with the Purist break in CD on repeat play. I don't plan on moving it for at least two more weeks.

The new Oppo BDP-105 and SME internal silver wire will get much needed 350 hours during this time.

albertporter

Owner
John,

Photos were taken on a "tripod" called INKA BV Monostand.

It's very large, about 8 feet tall and manufactured in Nederlands. Many years ago Patti and I flew over to Kampen and bought it, then shipped it back to Dallas.

INKA Monostand

It will support any camera at height and angles that traditional tripods cannot do.

albertporter

Owner
Camera is my old Nikon D2Xs with Nikon 28~70 2.8 ED lens.

The camera got a lot of help from the Sinar Bron Hazylight. This is the prettiest light source I've ever used.

I shot countless ads over the years with it, saved frustration many times over when lighting watches, coins and high end audio for ads.

Hazylight at B&H

albertporter

Owner
Last image before we begin mount and set up.

This shows the arm board hole allowing the Graham DIN mount clearance plus room for sliding within the (SME) type mount

The design of the Graham VTA tower makes for a tight fit.

Graham detail, mount detail (top)

albertporter

Owner
The four screw holes must be in perfect alignment as the base of the Graham has no slop for mounting. This is what the layout looks like, close up of tapped hole spacing.

Soon there will be images of Graham mounted on the board and on the MK3 for testing. Cartridge will be Lyra Atlas.

Graham hole+ tap for use on MK3

albertporter

Owner
The bottom of the MK3 arm board is pin routed so the Graham tonearm fitting clear when moved within acceptable distance of slot base mount.

MK3 armboard bottom view for Graham

albertporter

Owner
Due to thickness of Panzerholz arm board we drilled and tapped the Technics MK3 Technics arm board.

This way we can use original Graham mount screws so the arm base can move within the slots to correct spindle to mount distance.

Graham mount screw detail

albertporter

Owner
Ed,

Yes, the new Graham, Ebony arm board is finally here, finished with proper clear coat.

I have the tools to go ahead and set up now but prefer John help me position the Graham rotate position before we drill the screw holes.

The Graham rotate position is very critical because the horizontal movement is limited at both ends of it's possible travel point.

One could literally drill and mount the Graham perfect (to factory template) yet be unable to navigate from lead to run out on a 12" LP.

Oddly enough there is no need to cut a long slotted hole as indicated by the template (and required for SME 312S and V-12) since the Graham does not have an adjustment plate.

The Graham does have slotted mount holes in it's mount base which serves some of the same function. Unfortunately the movement along the slot holes at some rotation points destroys the spindle to pivot mount requirement.

Anyway you get the idea, destroying multiple Panzerholz + Ebony boards was not something we wanted to do so this ate some time.

albertporter

Owner
Peter,

The Lyra Atlas will mount in the Phantom, I've already heard Atlas in the SME 312S and Micro Seiki MAX.

You are no doubt aware that the Supreme got test runs in those arms (and several other) tonearms as well.

The Graham is not mine, belongs to a good friend who is also an Audiogon member. If the Graham blows me away I will have to look into getting one.

After the Graham test the SME V-12 should have enough hours on the tonearm wire (via CD player voltage) so it can get tested with the Atlas.

I do not have two Supreme, sometimes I wish I did since I love them so much, but I don't think I've yet heard all the Lyra Atlas is capable of.

This will be a very pleasant test, all these variables produce state of the art sound. It really gets down to system interaction and favorites.

albertporter

Owner
John came over from the shop and we spend a long time with measuring tools and template and finally got the Graham Phantom laid out for the MK3.

The arm board should be here Tuesday and we can (hopefully) get the Graham up and running and discover what it offers.

Oddly enough the second SME V-12 is scheduled to deliver Monday, always multiple things at once.

albertporter

Owner
Sam,

The Oppo BDP-93 is good, I had one. The BDP-95 is at least as good on music and better on all the visual presentations. I'm not sure about analog output, do you mean RGB cable?

For me the BDP-105 is the one to get, it can process CD from a transport and also USB Mac and Windows computers and video is claimed to be best ever.

FedEx tracking shows the Oppo is here but not out for delivery. Likely tomorrow. I'm excited to see how it does on Blue Ray and DVD, Netflix and of course I'm excited to hear how the Mac Mini sounds with it.

For the price it's impossible to turn down.

I don't think any of the Stahl~Tek can do DSD. That being said the big Opus Stahl~Tek is the best digital I've ever heard. I'm looking forward to trying the new Stahl~Tek DACs when they come for ad photos.

albertporter

Owner
Lloydlee,

I should get at least a couple of Stahl~Tek DACs so I can do ad photos. Probably after CES.

The original Opus transport and DAC was here about eighteen months ago. It remains the one time EVER that I got emotionally involved with digital playback. I was so excited I ran around the house and even took CDs out of my car to feed it.

The dismay came with the realization that there was no way to afford it. ($73K I think).

The new smaller DAC is supposed to be as good as the original Opus and retail for $12K (?). It works with CD transport and computer based music server.

If that performance claim is true, I will have to have one.

albertporter

Owner
(I'll email you when we get to Tx, i've already got my secede bumper sticker:))

Funny.

albertporter

Owner
Whart,

The attraction is the Oppo streams Netflix and plays Blue Ray at a quality level equal or above other players and does "well" on CD and SACD.

I have no delusion that the Oppo will compete with some $70K rig that might be out there but I'm just not enough into digital to spend that kind of coin.

The new Oppo has USB in so it can serve as DAC for my Mac Mini and it can also decode from a cable box so TV movies have better sound.

I'm going to try the Oppo against the Ayre and a friend in my group is bringing the PS Audio which should be interesting. The new Stahl Tek DAC should arrive for photography about CES time and I will give it a spin too.

I think I know the outcome but for what the Oppo cost I don't care.

albertporter

Owner
System edited: Removed Oppo BDP-95 (sold today). Added Oppo BDP-105. Added SME V-12 tonearm number two, ordered and paid but not expected until December.

albertporter

Owner
Peter,

The second V-12 is on order, I will wait for it before the shoot out between Lyra and Air Tight again.

I now have the matching Ebony tonearm board for one of our Technics plinths. The owner of the Graham Phantom has one and will take this board when we return the Graham after the test.

Should the Phantom turn out to be better than the SME V-12, I'll order one. At least we will know exactly how to do mine after all this work.

albertporter

Owner
Austin, TX is only a few hours from DFW but with so much to do before Thanksgiving, it was no go.

Many years ago when it was held in Dallas I had a press pass and was there several days. That was a memorable occasion and I got a lot of great shots.

Still, the most enjoyable auto photography was when I did most of Interstate Battery's Advertising. One session I spent a week with Bobby Labonte and Joe Gibbs in N. Carolina. Those people are among the nicest and finest people I've ever met. Including their wife and kids.

Another session I got a short ride in Interstate's NASCAR vehicle at Talladega. It's mind blowing how much power and noise those vehicles produce.

Good memories.

albertporter

Owner
I just sold my SME 312S tonearm to a friend in my audio group.

Last week I ordered and prepaid for another SME V-12 and put my excellent Micro Seiki MAX 282 up for sale here at Audiogon.

The SME V-12 is due in early December and will be paired with the Lyra Atlas.

albertporter

Owner
System edited: New images of vinyl and master tape software. Removed SME 312S tonearm.

albertporter

Owner
Albert, would you consider the Atlas to be more honest and ruthlessly revealing and the Supreme more musical and forgiving?

The Lyra Atlas is quicker, more leading edge, less warm and less overtone (especially closely recorded grand piano harmonics). This is one of those tests where two playback systems could reverse the listeners conclusion. Each play to different strengths, even on perfect recordings.

You could also say the Air Tight Supreme is more honest and ruthlessly revealing and Koetsu Coralstone more musical and forgiving. These three are almost equally spaced musical interpretations of what the music should be. Fortunately my system is balanced in a way that each one represents near perfect reproduction during an evenings music, provided you don't continually switch between them.

Atlas telling you exactly what is on a recording, but too revealing of less good recordings while the Supreme is slightly less neutral but allows you to enjoy less than stellar recordings?

Actually the resolution of the two cartridges are similar. It's the tonal balance and speed that separate them.

The Atlas is faster and leaner. The Air Tight is richer and more powerful deep bass. The Atlas was showing off far better against the Supreme before I moved the Supreme over to the SME V-12.

Do you plan to test the two arms with the same cartridge? And if so, will it be with the Supreme or the Atlas?

After the Graham I may well go for another V-12 and at that point there will be identical arms for both cartridges as a test.

albertporter

Owner
Peter, to clarify, I'm thinking Lyra Atlas in the Phantom instead of (current) Micro Seiki MAX.

If the V-12 wins against Phantom, SME 312S and Micro Seiki I'm going to order another V-12 for the Atlas.

I know that's crazy, especially considering the price of the V-12 but I must respect what delivers performance even if means identical arm for both these world class cartridges.

albertporter

Owner
Peter,

No, I've just been savoring the upgrade of the Supreme in the V-12 and don't want to touch it. Remember too, I have the Graham Phantom here I've promised to test.

albertporter

Owner
We had a wonderful listening session last night along with a pleasant surprise.

Dave Thomspon (Manufacturer-Raven Audio) was able to join us for dinner and music afterward. Several regulars there as well, lots of laughter and music sharing.

albertporter

Owner
Mr. Porter & Mr. Peterayer: Thank you both
for your answers to me, your posts are a
wealth of invaluable feedback.
Jeffrey Rossit

Pleased that it's helpful but in my case the posts are selfish. I love the interaction with Audiogon members, especially sharing music finds and interesting tests that many of us conduct and share findings over.

albertporter

Owner
Jlsemrad,

I hope that's Holmes you're referring to. It's about time he came and listened with us again.

albertporter

Owner
10-18-12: Dover
Hi Albert, thanks. Obviously the V12 is outstanding. The question I had was - in hindsight, do you still think the 312S is better than the 9" V.

I never had the opportunity to make that comparison. I will say that up until the V-12 went into my system the 312S was equal or better than anything else I ever had.

albertporter

Owner
10-18-12: Noslepums
Mr. Porter,
May I ask, did the V-12's improvements seem most noticeable
near the beginning and ending grooves on an LP ?
Since you're comparing two 12" arms, my guess would be NO.

You are correct, the improvement was overall and not the result of being a 12" arm. Both the SME in question were 12"

I have a -V that I'm considering selling, and buying a V12.
I had thought most of the benefit would come from the
longer arm, but perhaps the inherent workmanship of the
V12 is where a good bit of the improvement comes from.

I have not compared the 9" V to the 12" but there are reviews claiming the lower tracking error is audible and preferred with the longer version. I don't know all the factors that cause the V-12 to be superior but perhaps the cumulation of all the differences summed.

V-12 is more rigid, weighs only 10 grams, has different offset angle than 312S, designed with non removable headshell (all one piece) and uses damped filament for anti skate and damped spring or torsion bar for track force.

Some of these differences apply in comparison to the standard V and some to the 312S. As I've mentioned before, I was not prepared for the difference to be so great but pleased that I made the change.

albertporter

Owner
Quoting Rgurney
Albert - I assume you also didn't use fluid damping with the 312S either.
No, I did not. That experiment was a failure in my system.
The use of the fluid damping in the SME arms is somewhat mystical IMHO. Rather than all or none, perhaps it could be used just a tad, by only having the dip-screw down barely into the oil in the damper.
That approach was successful on my Townsend Rock and the Walker Black Diamond Proscenium. Both benefited from the damping paddle "denting" the pool of damping material rather than plunging well into it.

With the SME arms, at least in my system there was no need.

albertporter

Owner
Quoting Dover,
Thanks for the update on the SME V12 - very inciteful. I have never agreed with the slow/sluggish description of the SME V, to me it always had an organic wholeness of sound, by that I mean that the midrange was very open, ripe and the sound across the frequency range was cut from one cloth.

That's a nice description, especially the comment "cut from one cloth." The V-12 seems to not favor any frequency and maintains a cool, collected composure regardless of the music intensity. Elegant and musical but powerful and controlled.

I have found many users use dampening to fix other issues in their system.

Again, I agree completely, there are so many ways to twist a system off into the wrong direction and difficult to always know what should be changed.
The question I have is from your experience of the V12 and its sonic attributes, would you revise your view on the SME V in relation to the 312S. Do you think in hindsight that the SME V may be better than the 312S ?
I was reasonably certain from the first day of listening that the V-12 was the superior product. My love for the SME 312S has not waned, I still think it's world class.

Is the V-12 better? Yes, and quite a lot more money as well.
As an adjunct - the biggest issue I have had with the SME's is the van den hul wiring which I find a bit "pinched" through the upper mids which tends to mask a little detail compared to a copper litz which whilst a little "darker" allows you to hear more into the notes - ie once your ears adjust you hear more.

We seem to be of one mind on all these points. I too object to the Van Den Hul wire although the short run in the tonearm is far less damaging than the DIN to RCA that SME supplies with the tonearm. I absolutely love the Purist 25th Anniversary silver tonearm cable in place of the Van Den Hul, have you heard one?

albertporter

Owner
10-17-12: Peterayer
Albert, So many superlatives. Have you found any area in which the V-12 is less than excellent?
No, it is the most perfect arm I've ever owned, and so far all the guys in our listening group are in absolute agreement, something that does not always happen.
Do you change VTA or leave it, once set for an average thickness LP?
I experimented with VTA on the 312S and the results were we've all come to expect. I go for a sweet spot and leave it alone unless I want to verify my choice is overall best for my library.

The V-12 is set precisely where the 312S was and the performance upgrade was such a pleasant surprise I'm leaving it alone for now. Plus, I want the tonearm wire completely settled in and not confusing the outcome of additional micro adjustments.
Was last night's session with the Supreme again?
Yes.
When do you plan to mount the Atlas for comparison?
I'm trying to decide if the Graham I have here might be a good candidate for the Atlas, or sell my Micro Seiki and buy another SME V-12 for the Lyra.
Congratulations, again. I'm hoping that some mainstream reviewer, perhaps Fremer, reviews this arm so more people become aware of its merits.
Based on what I've read from MF I doubt he would approve of the V-12. The guy is brilliant and works harder than just about anyone in high end audio, but we differ greatly on what's important in our sound.

albertporter

Owner
Another Tuesday night with the SME V-12. This arm is such an upgrade I'm a bit lost for words as to how to describe it.

Comments that come to mind (and words of others as well) is pulse or push behind the music, density, color and power of the notes as well as absolute control to the point that even (obviously) heavily processed music is pulled apart and easy to assimilate, literally laid out for you to hear.

I'm in all new territory with this, wish everyone that has heard the system in the past could hear it again now.

albertporter

Owner
10-10-12: Peterayer
Albert, I forgot to ask: Do you miss the ability to swap headshells and adjust azimuth with the 312S? Does it matter with the Supreme? Perhaps some of the improvement you are hearing has to do with a more rigid headshell and less effective mass.

I never swapped headshells, only used the adjustment available with the 312S to insure azimuth via a loupe and then followed up with music to verify. The Supreme is not overly sensitive to azimuth, all cartridges are different and I've had several people confirm that fact about Air Tight.

That does not make the Air Tight better or worse, just a factor of it's design. VTA is critical, again a design factor.

The V-12 hit the PRECISE spot I worked hard to get with the 312S adjustable headshell. Perhaps luck or perhaps the V-12 is a perfectly crafted arm.

As for sound, the controls on the V-12, including the track force dial, counterweight assembly, anti skate dial and even the cue lever are all INCREDIBLY tight and ultra damped compared to (any) matching pieces on the 312S.

I can only assume SME pulled out all the stops to insure nothing on this arm resonates, insuring it strikes with maximum force and power with zero overhang, vibration or coloration.

albertporter

Owner
Peter
I had thought the SME 312S was no slouch, though I have not heard it.

It was my favorite arm until I heard the V-12. They share a lot of the same personality but are as different as a BMW 5 and M5 in performance.

Surely I don't have the breadth of experience with different arms that you do have, but it strikes me that your description of the V-12 is nothing like what the detractors of the SME V arm always say about it and other SME arms. Namely, that it is slow, sluggish, colored, lacks detail and is easily outclassed by current arms like the Phantom, the TriPlanar, and the Talea. To what to you attribute this stark difference?

Perhaps differences in taste or associated equipment or maybe the interaction of the table, tonearm and cartridge. Everything in the system contributes to the final sound. I've had three of the four arms mentioned in my system, all are top class. Granted the Graham was the older version, not the new 12" Phantom that I still have not managed to get set up.

Would you mind sharing your various settings? VTA, VTF, Anti skate. I assume you are using the dynamic VTF and no damping fluid. Also that your counterweight is fully loaded with the extra ballast putting it very close to the pivot.

VTA with Air Tight is precisely level, starting with the body of the cartridge reflection in a medium range thickness LP and then adjusting by ear over several hours. Track force is 1.99 with Winds and anti skate is 1.99 as per SME instructions.

No damping fluid, I don't like what that does to the SME, way too dead. Perhaps this is the source of people complaining about the sound? I have all the extra weights on the V-12 counterbalance and it's fully forward, almost up against the pivot point to balance. Track force is 100% via dial, using the torsion bar built in for track force.

I read somewhere that the PC-1 and Supreme were developed in part on the SME V and perhaps V-12 arms. This might account for the great match.

That is true, I got that from a reliable source.

I'd mount the Atlas on your one V-12 just to make sure you like it before buying a second V-12, but it seems as though you have finally found your ideal arm after a long search.

I like what the Lyra is doing but it is a "tiny" bit out of control compared to what I hear with the Air Tight. The Atlas is an incredible cartridge and everything in it's design is with the idea of making it perfectly linear, low resonance and perfectly balanced. I can't imagine that the sound of the SME V-12 would in any way harm it's performance, rather the opposite.

albertporter

Owner
Albert, I'd also be curious about your findings on the 4 Point, since that may be my second arm. As you know, I'm a big fan of the Airtight, though mine is the older PC-1, which will likely be replaced with the Supreme, or whatever is extant once I'm down in the longhorn state.
BTW, the Black Dub record is one of my favorites now, as is Trixie's single "I'd Rather Go Blind."
Whart

William, first of all my thanks for your email about those limited edition Trixie Whitley records. I ordered both from "Music Mania" in Belgium, they arrived yesterday in time for our Tuesday night music session.

The opening on "I'd rather Go Blind" with Brian Blade on drums is stunning. We were laughing out loud at the capability of this 45 RPM cut with the V-12 and Air Tight Supreme.

As for 4 Point I mentioned in other posts that it's not a fit for the MK3 due to it's set up requirements. It was never tested.

In fact, I have not gotten the Graham Supreme mounter either since the layout tools just arrived and now it's time for me to fly out for RMAF.

albertporter

Owner
Peter, My intention was to continue.

The words used to describe the improvement were:

Details pulled apart and easier to hear, more layers in the stage front to back, incredible pulse (snap and dynamic), superior control, lower distortion, micro resolution more obvious and overall much quieter (both in the groove and in the music).

The punch from this arm compared to the 312S, Micro Seiki MAX and other arms I've owned is startling.

The dynamic contrast is not bigger or louder nor is the leading edge enhanced in any way. It's almost as if the speaker and amp were drastically speeded up so the pulse, drive and contrast of the system quickened and all the details are obvious without any hype.

Sorry for not injecting audiophile terms, this is the only way I can think to describe what I heard. I love this arm so much I may sell the Micro Seiki and buy another V-12 for the Lyra Atlas.

albertporter

Owner
Peter
Once you have some listening time in, would you describe the sonic differences between the two SME arms? I'm surprised by your initial impression. I did not think the difference would be so great.

I too was nervous about spending so much for the V-12. As you know I don't have access to SME or sell their products so this was primarily a leap of faith.

It's hard to describe everything we heard but everyone in attendance shared the same impression.

albertporter

Owner
I finally got my SME V-12 mounted and set up (late!) about 2:00 AM Tuesday morning. I mounted the Air Tight Supreme, previously paired up with the 312S.

The V-12 had music running through it from my CD player for nearly two weeks, so I was eager to hear what it could do.

Tonight was the first music session and I'm in love. I was not prepared for this much improvement.

albertporter

Owner
The template that I got with my V-12 is just like the one from my SME V arm except for the different dimensions. I would have assumed the templates for the V-12 and your 312S are about the same, just with different offset angles.

One of your two is different then, my 312S was a paper template and the V-12 template I just received is machined out of metal and has grommets to insure spindle diameter and alignment over arm board.

Once I get a couple of hundred hours on this new arm I'll set it up and see where it lands performance wise.

albertporter

Owner
The new SME V-12 tonearm arrived about three hours ago.

I hooked up my adaptor cable (RCA to headshell lead) so signal from CD can go through the new headshell leads, internal tonearm cable, DIN to RCA phono cable then on to the preamp. Two volts with 24/7 repeat play should get me in the ball park about this time next week.

The SME template for the V-12 is different than any other arm I've worked with. I should snap some photos and provide a link to Postimage so everyone can see.

This new template may be my salvation for mounting the Graham Phantom. Experiments as to how to accurately mount should begin soon.

albertporter

Owner
You need a Feikert type with a nail at the end so you can place it in the pivot point bearing cup with the bearing cap removed. Azimuth with the Graham can't be done by eye or spirit level as the unipivot will actually appear to tilt inward by a degree or two. I use a foz meter to set it.

I have the super set up tool built by Dertonearm, the UniProtractor. It does everything the Feikert does and more.

I wish I had a Foz meter, I may have to buy one.

On another note, the Coralstone is still champ. Love it !
Funny, our audio group was discussing that not an hour ago, right before we shut down our long Tuesday night listening session.

One of my long term listeners ask me to play John Coltrane on the Air Tight Supreme and Lyra Atlas (same three cuts). Afterward he said, both of those are good but the Coralstone beats them both in the midrange.

Made me smile, he's right.

albertporter

Owner
Hello Ciperjuris,

According to Bob Graham the template for SME V-12 is correct for Graham Phantom. I received the Mint V-12 template Saturday (day before yesterday) but have not had time to examine it or attempt a set up.

Do you have a Graham or Technics? Anything to add as helpful set up tips?

albertporter

Owner
Albert, will your second MK3 be active and used for multiple arm/cartridge testing or will it be kept in storage as a spare?
Peter,
I would like to keep it because mechanically, electrically and cosmetically it's almost perfect after this restoration. What's really awesome is it's stock in appearance, both color and finish wise.

That being said, the monkey wrench in that plan is my dream speaker might be available as early as Jan 2013. All the stars will have to align for that to become a reality for me and even then I may not swing it financially.

As for the SME V-12, there were none in the USA, it was ordered from the SME factory in GB. Hopefully will arrive stateside later this week or early next.

In any case the Mint Protractor has not yet arrived so even if it were here I'm still missing one piece of the puzzle.

Also, any more thoughts on the Atlas versus the Supreme? Have you heard them in the same arm yet?
The Atlas, it's a super cartridge, no doubt about it. I expect most reviewers will go crazy over it and for good reason.

Which is better, the Supreme or Atlas? Depends on the LP, the other gear in the system and personal taste. No, I have not heard them in the same arm yet, hoping for that once the V-12 arrives and I burn in the tonearm wire a bit.

albertporter

Owner
The Richard Krebs upgrade is now available from Music Technology for Technics MK2. Cost is $800.00 rather than the $1200.00 fee for the (more complicated) MK3.

I hope to get one of the guys in my group that own a MK2 to go for this so I can compare.

Also, today I received my (second) restored Technics MK3 from Bill. It's the very rare USA version built with 120V power supply from the factory.

Very beautiful, not a mark on the main chassis or platter and an almost flawless power supply. Of course it's completely rebuilt electrically and mechanically as well.

albertporter

Owner
Ken,

The good news is you are hearing about 60% of what the mod does. As time passes the treatment will improve. You and I were both copied on that email message, the quote below is just for the record.

Transients will become more clearly defined
Speed stability will further improve. Listen for the tail of a piano note now and in 3 months.

The noise floor will drop further and bass extension and definition has not yet reached its peak, the same goes for the treble.

My experience with this upgrade was only different than yours in that I did not experience as much noise floor reduction as you indicate. My biggest revelation was lowing of distortion and resolution.

Perhaps the difference in our set up, including my plinth, Stillpoints Ultras and Vibraplane.

albertporter

Owner
Andrewrona,
I cant believe you guys who have such an authority on vinyl simply don’t recognise the importance of being able to have a phono stage with variable EQ
The purpose of variable EQ is to allow for vinyl pressings that don't follow current RIAA standards.
Mr Porter you are able to get your hands on the H 3000v for a couple of months, It would then be interesting on your take. Maybe a good "learning curve "
I'm very familiar with Allnic, the factory setting KS Park provides for RIAA LPs with the H3000V is identical to my H3000.

Sure, you could deliberately select an EQ for a previous (old) playback standard and that would provide different results but inaccurate at the very least.
Oh and you can get a WA quantum chip and stick it on your cartridges and headshell and hear the improved focus etc , so there !
I like the Hi Fi Tuning Fuses, but not a fan of WA chips (both from Robert at Ultra Systems). Are you familiar with Marigo Dots?

http://marigoaudio.com/tuning-dots/

These have been around for over 20 years. This kind of tweak cycles around, some stay and some go away. I'm not using any of these now except Hi Fi Tuning fuses.

albertporter

Owner
Peter,
No, I did a test on the SME V arm trying dynamic VTF versus static VTF preferring the former.
Assuming that result also applies to the 12" SME, I should have better sound with the soon to arrive V-12.
I believe the 312S was developed for the SME 20/12 table and initially sold only as part of that package. With its success, I think it became available as a separate, stand alone arm. People do like the detachable headshell allowing for easier cartridge swapping and azimuth adjustment.
I was a very early adopter to the SME 312S, that must have been 8 years ago and I had to order from Europe.

Last time I spoke to Sumiko who is the official importer for SME they said it was only available as a package with the SME table.

albertporter

Owner
Peter
Congratulations on the V-12. I'm sure you will love it, though as I've not heard the 312S, I can't say how they differ sonically.
For some reason I thought you had done that test and concluded the V-12 was superior.
I have a friend who also has the V-12 on an SME 30/12. He really likes his new Atlas but says there is something really nice about his old Olympos. The Atlas has incredible detail, but the Olympos has this comforting warmth that is just really nice.
I have not heard the Olympos but the description you provide seems reasonable. I'm told the Atlas was an all out attempt at resolution and speed and on some LPs it's too hard but on others it's ideal.

One must decide on which side of a line you prefer to error on. With the diversity of software I own I switch between the two several times an evening.
For now and the foreseeable future, I'm thrilled with my Supreme.
The Supreme is excellent on every kind piece of software I own, regardless of content or recording type.

albertporter

Owner
Peter,

Yes, I plan on trying the Atlas in either the SME 312S or the new SME V-12. I've paid for the V-12 but not sure when it will ship.

I agree the SME might be the contributor to deep and dynamic bass. I see now I failed to mention which arm got the Orsonic, it's the Micro Seiki MAX 282 which is also a 12" arm.

I'm hoping the SME V-12 is better still than either of these. I know you already have one and are greatly impressed with it. We seem to share a lot of the same values so I'm eager to receive the V-12 and get it mounted.

I know I keep saying it, but anything achieved at the source has the potential to be a staggering upgrade. I never tire of experimenting with that since the payoff has come through so many times over the last couple of years.

albertporter

Owner
I have about sixty hours on the Lyra Atlas now and although it does everything pretty much perfect, the final break in did not remove the forward and slightly splashy personality of the high frequencies.

I have several head shells, Micro Seiki, My Sonic, Oyaide, Orsonic and Yamamoto. I've been using the Yamamoto and decided to go for a more massive option to see what change that might bring.

I matched up the Atlas with Orsonic AV-101b fitted with SME silver leads and set VTA, overhang and azimuth as carefully and accurately as possible with Mint, Wally and Winds.

The result was a very nice improvement, high frequencies are more dynamic, less forward and the splash is pretty much history.

The bass frequencies are tighter than before and micro details are popping out in a more layered soundstage, especially at the extreme edges where you hear boundaries in the recording itself.

This combo makes the Lyra the best I've heard it. The only negative is it still does not go as deep or dynamic as my Air Tight Supreme mounted in the SME 312S.

I'm glad I own both cartridges, both of them are amazing. I wish I could have kept these two and the Koetsu Coralstone. Maybe if the economy improves.

albertporter

Owner
Sarcher,

The SME 312S and V-12 have fixed holes in the headshell (no slots). Unless Mint knows the cartridge mount hole to stylus tip distance they cannot build the protractor.

Remember the base of these two SME arms is on a movable track adjusted with a small wand. A cool idea but assumes all cartridges are precisely the same mount and stylus the same length.

Turns out my Air Tight Supreme is 9.75MM and Lyra Atlas is 9.5MM.

albertporter

Owner
Lbelchev,

Either is more than adequate to perform the task, it's up to us to be careful and use the tools properly. Sometimes I have to put off these tasks until my stress level is low and I can focus enough to do a proper job.

For the two Mint protractors I'm ordering I actually did close up photography of my cartridges and sent via email to insure the mount hole to spindle distance was taken into account. Not so much for the Graham since it has slotted headshell, but the SME which does not.

albertporter

Owner
Albert, Just fix the Pivot to Spindle distance 295,6 with any tool (you must remove the Grahams top cap). Then rotate the mounting base (keeping 295,6). The position of the Graham SME base is different from the SME V-12 base, so all screw holes are on different places.

This sounds like a job for Dertonearm Uni Protractor or Feickert Universal. Set the 295,6 and then the template can be centered to match.

I'm working with Yip to order two Mint protractors right now.

albertporter

Owner
Peterayer
Albert, I could have been more clear. I place a tiny spirit level (designed for gun sights and cameras) on my headshell between the mounting screws. I then lower the arm very slowly until the stylus hits the record, but no more.

Thank you, that makes sense now.

For azimuth, the V-12 allows for no real adjustment, but I have found that when the arm pillar locking screws are slightly loose, one can confirm that the arm pillar is plumb or vertical by placing this tiny spirit level on the headshell and lowering it again close to the surface of the LP without the added mass at the end of the arm effecting the cantilever suspension. When the bubble is between the lines, I lock in the arm pillar set screws.

One of the guys at Sumiko gave me that same advice a couple of years ago (without the bubble level bit) when I pressed them about azimuth on the V-12.

It was at CES and was a great conversation on the topic. I think their claim about the performance difference between the SME 312S and V-12 was planted in my mind at that time. It will be great to finally hear for myself how much (if any) real difference there is.

albertporter

Owner
Whart
You mentioned Nina Simone among your favorite artists, but I didn't see any of her records listed. Any that you consider fabulous on both fronts? (performance and sonically?)

My two favorites are Bethlehem BCP6028, studio recordings from '57-'59 and some live material as well. Her voice was amazing back then and the recording is good for that era. Definitely worth owning.

Also Nina Simone Sings The Blues, RCA originally but mine is a Speaker Corner repress from Chad at Acoustic Sounds.

This one is excellent musically and a good recording as well.

albertporter

Owner
Audiogon Hub has a new added feature. Audiogon Member – Audiophio

Albert Porter Audiophio
I'm happy they invited me. Of course everyone is encouraged to participate, perhaps a good way to get to know each other.

albertporter

Owner
08-03-12: Idos
One question about the SME V12; How do you adjust the azimuth? Do you shim the cartridge? I know on the 312s rotating the headshell is a simple matter.

This is something I have yet to explore. I do know that a couple of my cartridges are virtually unaffected by azimuth, with exact vertical being as good as it gets even though the 312S has option to rotate.

Once the V-12 arrives I'll determine if it's performance is above the 312S and decide from there how much effort to put into coming up with options for azimuth.

Like Peterayer I adjust azimuth by ear but rather than a bubble level I begin with "mirror image" reflection of the cartridge to align the vertical placement.

This can be done on a shiny LP or (better still) with a mirror and magnifier so the diamond and stylus can be examined along with the cartridge body.

albertporter

Owner
Lbelchev,

Albert, the SME mount template do not work with the Graham. To catch the tonearm base angle firstly you must fix the mounting distance 295,6 Pivot-Spindle (as the SME V-12). "Then position the arm wand directly over the turntable spindle. Now, gently rotate the mounting base ( either Custom or SME) such that the rear counterweight almost (but not quite) touches the VTA adjustment bracket." This is the position angle of the Graham SME base.

I understand your instruction, perhaps use a ice pick through one of the screw holes on the SME mount and pivot the template to accommodate the proper base position so the Graham counterweight clears.

The problem is will you catch the proper Offset angle with mounting geometry the same as the SME V-12 (Bob Grahams recommendation): Leff - 308,8, overhang - 13,2, mounting distance - 295,6. Take care ;-)

I wondered about that too. Rotating the mount platform so it allows full movement is putting that as first (but necessary priority) yet it may not yield the other parameters.

I don't know if there is a way to insure both are correct without a Graham factory template that's mathematically correct.

albertporter

Owner
Peterayer.
I can't see how the SME templates for either arm will work with the Graham. For the SME template to be accurate, one must align the printed outline of the tapered SME arm tube with the actual arm tube of the arm. The Graham arm want is a completely different shape.

That's why Graham should supply a proper template for their arm, otherwise we're shooting in the dark. I have written to Mint and waiting for Yip to respond about supplying a protractor for both the SME V-12 and the 12" Graham.

I have been using a tiny spirit level placed on the headshell to assist in azimuth and VTA settings prior to final adjustments by ear. Because of the offset at the headshell, azimuth changes as the arm tube is raised and lowered, so I check the bubble level for azimuth just when the stylus hits the LP and not while it is in the arm rest.

Seems the spirit level would add mass to the arm or am I reading your comments wrong?

albertporter

Owner
07-31-12: Lbelchev
Hi Albert, There is some info about the Graham Phantom 12" armwand: "Look careful to the off-set of the headshell mounting area. It is correct only for the original 9" version." See the threads "Graham Phantom Supreme?" and "Graham Phantom II 12" - dimensions and overhang".

I just posted to that thread. I appreciate your input.

If the headshell is only correct for the 9" version Graham then there is a real problem. The headshell and tonearm on the Graham 12" are all one piece. I hope someone is way ahead of me on this and can advise.

One last thing. Peterayer informed me the SME 312S (12") and SME V-12 (12") tonearms are different offset angle. I wonder if either SME offset or template are appropriate for the 12" SME mount Graham?

albertporter

Owner
System edited: Added components and text

albertporter

Owner
Looks like the SME V-12 is going to be a reality, delivery is promised for late August (two or three weeks).

Hope to get the SME up and running in a short time frame so I can compare the SME 312S, SME V-12, Micro Seiki MAX 282 and Graham Phantom II Supreme 12".

I know in advance of testing that all of these arms "walk on water," so it will be fun to sort out the details.

albertporter

Owner
My thanks Lyubo.

albertporter

Owner
Just to update that my SP10Mk3 is on its way to Bill Thalmann for the mechanical upgrades like yours.

I hope you post your impressions as to what the upgrade provides. I know what I heard but it would be great to compare notes.

I am curious if you have ever tried steam cleaning your LP's. I note that you have the fabulous Audio Desk LP cleaner and so you would be in a good position to compare steam cleaning to ultrasonic cleaning or a combination of both.

I have never tried steam cleaning. There are countless posts on the topic here at Audiogon and from what I read it's mixed results. My Odyssey RCM (now sold) and the Audio Desk were both wonderful. I admit to preferring the Audio Desk primarily due to it's simpler and less time consuming operation.

Sound with my VPI, Audio Desk, Odyssey RCM (Keith Monks type) and others are all worthwhile and easily separated by performance they deliver. The Odyssey (and all other Monks type) machines and the Audio Desk are the top two in my opinion.

In what situation would steam cleaning an LP be required?

albertporter

Owner
Jfrech (John) The Graham Phantom is not yet mounted.

I put in two calls to Bob Graham, no reply so far.

I spoke briefly to Carl Jerritts in Colorado (Graham expert) but he was literally on the way to the airport to catch a flight. I won't do this until I have some advice, the 12" Graham is new and not much data on it yet.

The SME mounting plate on the Graham base is a perfect fit (identical to SME) but what would be ideal would be Graham supplied template to assure proper mount distance and angle.

Using template from 12" SME, the Graham counterweight does not permit the tonearm to traverse the complete LP.

albertporter

Owner
Spirit,

Vinyl playback is mechanical and with that come all the variables discussed in these forums.

I'm happy for you and your successful combination. There are many turntable designs and each have inherent flaws and strengths.

I agree that digital "pushed" the complacency of turntable designers into improving. I think both formats have benefited from the competition and comparisons.

albertporter

Owner
BTW, you know there is no possible recovery when you start asking your dentist for samples of dental floss to try in your turntable :-)

Funny indeed.

I've owned or had for demo dozens of belt drive turntables and as you point out the belt (or string) absolutely contributes to the sound. With Basis you could hear the powder on the belt as well as old from new belt.

With Walker I made most of my own silk belts (of various width) and each had a sound. You could even hear the different brands of ribbon.

albertporter

Owner
Alan,

A customer and friend had the Micro Seiki RX-5000 as well as the Micro Seiki direct drive. I helped him for several years adjusting the Micro Seiki and soldering in new resistors in his Tube Research amps when a output tube would blow.

String, belt however you wish to refer to it, good for you and Louis. Pleased you found something to believe in.

albertporter

Owner
Unoear,

I've heard the Micro Seiki RX-5000, a great belt drive.

albertporter

Owner
Peterayer,

07-23-12: Peterayer
Spirit, You wrote "But really the new tt/arm takes analogue to a place well beyond the best of belt drive/digital." That is quite a definitive statement. Are you really sure you can make such a statement? Which top-tier belt drive tables/arms/cartridges have you actually heard? The Walker, the DiVinci, the SME 30/12, the Continuum, a big Micro Seiki? I own a top belt drive and there are a few others. I actually prefer it to the two DD SP10 mk 2s that I have heard and also to the DD Brinkman Bardo. The belt-drive Brinkman Balance sounds better to me than the DD Bardo. I certainly have not heard everything and will not make such sweeping generalizations about tables that I have not heard in my own system. I'm glad you like your new table and arm and speakers, but the definitive statements are a bit much, IMO.

Sorry to digress, Albert.

No problem Peter, you've contributed greatly to the analog forums here at Audiogon and tremendously to my system thread.

Understand that Spirit (or any other listener) makes a statement based on their experience and sometimes it's at "eureka" moment when problems are suddenly solved and a new level of resolution is uncovered.

Not everyone has a turntable the quality of your SME. A lesser table may well be creamed by even an entry level rim drive.

I will even go so far as to say most rim drives and the better (well executed or modified) direct drives generally always do better than belt drives in some very important areas. Not every listener values that advantage nor do they recognize it as superior.

I've owned a lot of turntables and lots more in my system for demo. Over the years I've sold and set up just about everything made, having spent my youth in retail high end audio.

My preference is direct drive, it's my first choice. However, If I had to choose between a Technics 1200 versus a high end Micro Seiki or top line SME, I would go for the belt drive.

The drive system is critical and has a strong possibility to offer higher performance. However, as frequently pointed out here at Audiogon, implementation is critical.

I wish we lived nearer each other, I would love for you to hear even a MK2 with all the mods and my plinth. I think you would be more than impressed.

albertporter

Owner
Spiritofmusic,

I'm pleased that you achieved your goal with analog, particularly the Salvation/Terminator. You seem genuinely convinced of it's ability and are joyous over the musical performance.

I would not concern myself with what you might be missing by not owning the MK3 or an NVS.

albertporter

Owner
07-23-12: Spiritofmusic
In a lot of ways, move to direct rim drive is the most radical change to my system other than the change to Zu Audio full range xoverless spkrs, which again I won't deviate from.

Source and speakers, the two major factors in determining system performance. Not surprised you call the rim drive radical, it's a performance eye opener after living with belt drive.

Yes, NVS and MK3 are both DD and both very high quality.

Have you had an opportunity to hear either?

albertporter

Owner
07-22-12: Spiritofmusic
I have to say having listened to direct rim drive over last couple of months has been an eye (and ear) opening experience, I could never go back to belt drive.

I agree that rim drive and direct drive are completely different and superior sound to belt drive. I would have never discovered that had I not bought into that old Lenco back in 2004. That led to experiments with direct drive which are now my favorite.

albertporter

Owner
Albert, I would hesitate to use the SME alignment protractor for the Phantom arm. For the SME cutout protractor to work properly, the offset angle and pivot to stylus distance for the Phantom have to match exactly the SME arm for which the protractor was designed.

Perhaps I was not clear. We already had an arm board cut for SME using SME template and the person who loaned me the Graham was hoping it would work.

As far as I know, there is not a Graham template for his SME style mount but I have not contacted the two people I have in mind to inquire on this subject.

And even if you get all of that right, the MINT is more accurate than the SME is, particularly when it comes to zenith alignment.

No doubt but remember I have this arm on loan, so in addition to my purchasing a Mint for something that's not mine, the gracious lender may grow tired of waiting before I ever receive my Mint from Asia. I guess that's to be determined.

To get it correct, you might have to measure the pivot to stylus distance and then supply that dimension with the offset angle and mounting distance to Yip for a MINT LP protractor.

All the more reason to take this topic up with Bob Graham. Maybe tomorrow, today I had way too much going on.

albertporter

Owner
07-17-12: Jasonparmenter
Hi Albert, nice to see a fellow kiwi (Richard) on your couch enjoying the music.

For having flown twenty four hours from the other side of the planet, Richard fell into our group as if he had lived here all his life.

He has a great sense of humor and a lot of common sense. It was amazing that the deeper we delved into various topics the more we had in common. It is indeed a small world.

He did have a distinct advantage around town while shopping and dining. It's funny how girls are attracted to the accent from your side of the world :-).

If you ever travel this way come visit and listen to music with us.

albertporter

Owner
07-17-12: Rockitman
Albert,

If you are trying out a Graham Supreme 12", make sure the alignment jig is tailored for the 12". When I bought my 10", they included the jig for the standard 9" arm. I ended up getting a Mint LP custom for my table spindle arm. Supposedly, Graham is addressing this jig issue for the longer arms.

Thank you. Your advice matches my situation, I believe this one has the shorter jig as well.

Bob Graham will no doubt take care of this soon. He is a very thorough person.

albertporter

Owner
Hi Albert,

I'm playing with the idea to put a diamond cantilever when the time for rebuild comes. Have you heard one of these? I guess a demo is essential, but it's almost impossible to be arranged.

One of the people very high up in the Koetsu chain told me the diamond cantilever was there to please a certain market but in (his) opinion ruined the Koetsu magic.

Knowing this guy for so many years I accepted his advice.

albertporter

Owner
07-16-12: Peterayer
I think it is difficult to form a definitive conclusion about the Supreme and Atlas because they were not heard in the same arm.

I agree it was not a perfect test but remember I had two identical Air Tight Supreme cartridges mounted side by side for several months on this plinth. One mounted in the SME 312S and the other in the Micro Seiki MAX.

Sure, there were differences but very small compared to the personality differences between Air Tight and Lyra cartridges. In fact matching the Micro Seiki tonearm cable and headshell leads to what was on the SME was a bigger change than the two arm design personalities.

Perhaps that's why I like and accept the Micro Seiki, it has enough of the neutral personality I treasure in the SME to keep it in the system.

I happen to think that the magnesium 12" SME arms are quite neutral and that both cartridges would sound excellent on the 312S and that one would be preferred over the other based on personal preferences and the rest of the system.

I agree completely.

Albert, do you have a MINT LP protractor for the Phantom? Perhaps Albert will mount both cartridges on the 12" arm. I'm staying tuned for the report.

I may have to order a Mint to get it right but currently we're dealing with another problem.

This 12" Graham Phantom came as the SME version rather than universal mount so I was thinking plug and play when it came to set up.

However, using the factory supplied 12" SME template and cut out, the Graham does not have enough clearance to navigate the entire LP. It strikes it's own counterweight into the VTA tower.

I don't know if the "official" Graham template will reposition to accommodate for this by providing slightly greater offset to compensate. The problem is not the Technics, the cutout is precisely the same as would be on a SME turntable so I'm not sure where we are on this.

I may call Bob Graham for help but not until we understand what needs to be done to compensate.

albertporter

Owner
07-16-12: Jfrech
The atlas was in a micro seiki arm, the supreme in his 312s. Same arm cables. It was very easy to hear the differences, the lyra was much faster, somewhat higher in resolution, more energy on top (not bright, just more).

Then the supreme, better foundation in the mid bass (the way it portrayed the cello strings) more beauty in the mids (voices), more relaxed on top.

07-17-12: Jfrech
Hi Whart...actually no...I was trying to say which ever one you listened to sounded great...no "desire" to switch to the other.

Good description, pretty much what I hear between these two. There will be people who much prefer one over the other and as you stated, it might be based on speakers and/or associated equipment.

I don't know yet if I can make a absolute choice. Several times tonight when we were listening through several LP sides I favored the Air Tight. Then when the Atlas was on for a few sides I preferred it.

albertporter

Owner
This will be an interesting battle royale. I trust Albert's ears. I currently have the Airtight PC-1, which will be getting long in the tooth.

The PC-1 is an incredible cartridge and the Supreme is better still. Which is the better choice is going to be a tough call. There may not be an absolute answer, they do not sound alike and both are excellent.

albertporter

Owner
John and Peter,

I am satisfied with both the Micro Seiki MAX 282 and SME 312S but a good friend and member here at Audiogon ask if I was interested in trying the new 12" Graham.

I don't think I'm in the market for a Graham but who knows, maybe it will perform so well I'll have to have one. I still have not gotten word on the SME V-12 either. That's another option I'm looking into.

As for Supreme and Lyra, you can ask Jfrech :-), he and his daughter dropped by when I was comparing the two. Maybe he will throw another log on this fire.

I love both cartridges and the Koetsu Coralstone I was forced to sell to finance this latest test. I can't say either way if I had to choose between Supreme and Atlas at this moment that I could know for certain it was 100% correct choice.

albertporter

Owner
Chris,

Load for Coralstone with the Aesthetix Io was 1000 ohms. With the Allnic H3000 it's lower but difficult to compare, Aesthetix is resistive load and the Allnic is transformer plus resistor.

Interesting comments on the Graham, I have not heard one in several years, and never the Phantom model at least in my own system.

The ability to swap arm wands is cool, you seem completely satisfied with the Phantom. What other arms have you had mounted up to compare against the Graham other than the Clear Audio?

albertporter

Owner
Chris,

I'm not sure the Blue Lace with diamond cantilever is better than what you have. It would be more mechanical and deliberate sounding but no additional bandwidth or resolution.

The load you choose seems a bit low but every phono stage presents itself different to the cartridge so perhaps that's ideal with the Pass.

Is the Coralstone mounted in the Graham or Clear Audio? I just received a Graham, the new 12" version from a friend to try in my system.

albertporter

Owner
Chris,

Not surprised you're in love with it. I still have withdrawal pains from letting it go. The Coralstone is one of the finest phono cartridges ever made.

Where are you loading it? It's sensitive to both load and VTA but not so much on azimuth, at least in my experience.

Have you noticed that unlike every other cartridge, the stylus and cantilever stays free of debris and lint?

albertporter

Owner
Opting out is not available in many places. It appears California has a movement to ban in many counties. Texas is late getting the meters and late protesting them.

I have a call into a supervisor at our provider, Oncor-TXU Electric for clarification and if options exist.

albertporter

Owner
Vtl,
I noticed that you recently covered much of the brick surround of the fireplace
I tried diffusion and absorption and the absorption was better in that location. It did not soften the room, just removed a small reflection that harmed the image.
it looks like you have not used anything absorbing on the back wall (based on the pictures); were you worried about over-damping the room?
The back wall is a composite of three layers. Mahogany plywood plus two sheets of 5/8" sheetrock with acoustic cement between each layer. The area behind the plywood is packed with fiberglass as are all the walls and ceiling in this space.

Correct that there is no damping on the surface of the back wall. The acoustician said side wall treatment, diffraction beams plus fiberglass (up high) on ceiling was adequate.

I have a controlled sounding room but not overly dead or lively. I would rate it as ever so slightly dark (and very quiet), short natural reflections are present with abrupt sound such as loud hand clap.
I really like the Titan i -- I don't have nearly the sophisticated equipment that you do, but it was one of the changes that had an immediate and major impact on what I got out of my analog equipment.
I never had the Titan i in my system but I assume it's another great phono cartridge since it shares heritage with the Atlas.

albertporter

Owner
Sarcher30,

Everything has a "sound" and ferrite beads have not worked very well for me. I still have Red Rollers around here, a product manufactured by Versa Dynamics in the 1980s. These are huge and will fit over most cords. I bought a lot of product and tested when I was actively working and learning about controlling RF and AC noise.

Ferrite in my experience is very hit and miss. Sometimes does good and sometimes harms the sound. I was primarily the push to get Purist to develop the filter that's integrated into the Limited and 25th Anniversary and so far it's proven to be many times superior to any other at resolving these issues.

Someday I would like to try a high rating, whole system isolation transformer. Perhaps that would be the magic bullet that removes need for additional filtering.

albertporter

Owner
Lawrence,

The 240 3-Phase service and special meter were installed many years ago. At that time it was not a smart meter. The utility company switched me over to this new meter without even asking, maybe 6 weeks ago.

Of course with Transocket design the power does not pass through the meter, it's more like an Amprobe "clip" on. Meaning also, if the meter is pulled there's no interruption of power. The smart meter in this case is not riding the line 100% of the time.

I've been warning people about this for several years along with the possibility of utility companies offering internet service over power lines to add to their bottom line. Fortunately the Purist AC cables (Limited and 25th Anniversary) both remove the utility company RF transmission including the associated noise that generates.

I did not however know about any health issues. I'll do some research after posting this reply.

The two reasons utilities are going to these is so you (the customer) can opt to have power cut during peak times in exchange for special rates. My particular set up does not allow for that, they would literally have to come cut the cable at the weather head or gain access to interior master breaker.

I suspect in my case they swapped to avoid travel to my home every month to manually read usage to generate an invoice.

I'm going to do some checking with them next week and see if there are options.

albertporter

Owner
System edited: Better late than never. Added image of our home specialty electrical base and meter. Transocket (pass through) design meter, approximately three feet high, twenty inches wide and one foot deep. Along with the dedicated transformer in the alley and fourteen dedicated runs a huge upgrade for the system.

albertporter

Owner
Peter,

I'm working on trying to acquire the V-12, if that happens I'll do a whole new round of tests.

albertporter

Owner
Vtl,

I noticed you have the Lyra Titan in your system. I never got to hear that model but the new Lyra Atlas I recently acquired is stunning.

Thanks for the super kind words about my system and room. Like others at Audiogon wanting the equipment and room to serve the music, I've spent a lot of time correcting acoustic problems.

I suppose I had some good fortune in that I selected Sound-Lab nearly 21 years ago and then later the Dali Megaline. Both of these designs greatly reduce the interaction of the room and side walls in particular. The Dali being a line array has even greater advantages in the way it loads the space.

I've mentioned several times the extreme room acoustics treatments I had done. Unlike some systems they are hidden so it appears from my images to be a room with standard construction and no treatment at all. The opposite is true.

The side wall treatment extends well beyond the Dali's first reflection point. It's a simple and effective way to deal with one of the most overlooked problems (first boundary point reflection).

You're correct that beyond that first boundary stands a set of conventional french doors and they must have at least some effect even after all I've done. I've been tempted many times to experiment with ultra sheer drape or similar fabric in front of the doors.

I think what slows me down is that currently the liveliness of the room is already slightly "dark" after all my treatment. I've experienced rooms that are over-damped and they are somewhat depressing to listen to music in.

The greatest room improvements in my system were:

(1) The massive electrical rebuild starting at the alley and continuing all the way to each piece of equipment.
(2) Over the top construction addressing rigidity of the floor, walls, ceiling and software storage area.
(3) Professional consultation and application of acoustic treatment inside and face of all walls, floor and ceiling and the built in rear wall reflectors from RPGs.

Your bringing this up starts me thinking about experimenting with those doors. Something put up as a temporary treatment to see what that brings to the mix.

albertporter

Owner
System edited: Removed items and corrected text to represent current system.

albertporter

Owner
Peter,

They were indeed fun days and wound up running late into the night. Richard Krebs is passionate and intelligent and spoke at length about his engineering ideas.

We listened to both the Air Tight Supreme and Atlas during the long sessions. Atlas mounted in the Micro Seiki MAX and Supreme in the SME 312S (both are 12" arms).

The Atlas has about 25 hours on it now and I'm told it requires a minimum of 50 to be where it needs to be. With that disclosure out of the way I have to say the Atlas is already at this stage of break in, a top contender as the best cartridge, ever.

There is always a tendency for the "new" piece of audio gear to appear flawless until time discloses the trade off. I'm pretty good at not getting swept away with the hype but the Atlas is really hitting me hard with it's performance.

My first observation concerning it's performance would be ultra high speed, ultra high resolution, perhaps the widest bandwidth I've heard from LP playback, plus unusually good output voltage and (very) low distortion.

The only thing that bothered me at all was the uppermost high frequencies. The instructions mention suppression of known RF and ultrasonics with load options for +6, +3 or +0 DB peak.

Early on with only a few hours I was bothered by this but it began to subside at less than 4 hours. With 25 hours and a change of load on my phono the problem is VERY slight.

I'm hearing from people in the industry and expect to read a lot of highly favorable comments, posts and reviews very soon and I think it deserves whatever praise it receives.

albertporter

Owner
System edited: Edited system and text.

albertporter

Owner
I posted a photo of Richard Krebs to my system thread.

Counting each day separately, we had fifteen or eighteen members of our audio group who listened at my home this past three days.

We began each day before lunch and listened until 10:30 or later every night. The new Lyra Atlas was a hit as were the upgrades to the turntable that are now fully settled in.

Richards mods for the Technics MK2 and MK3 are authorized in the USA to be completed by Bill Thalmann at Music Technology in VA.

albertporter

Owner
System edited: Over the past three days our group gathered at my home to celebrate Richard Krebs visit from NZ.

albertporter

Owner
Btw, I love it when young people chew gum while they start to listen to my tactile, labour intensive system and then drop their jaw (and gum on the floor!) as the realisation of MP3 Hell hits them!

Funny and totally believable.

Our son grew up around my system so he was spoiled while still in diapers. I have an old Polaroid of him dropping the needle on my linear tracking Versa Dynamics table. Friends I showed the photo to were horrified,

"You let John drop your Benz onto a record?"

The answer was yes, and he had the biggest grin on his face I’d ever seen. He loved it and danced to the music.

I got an email from him just before his recent graduation from college. Basically telling me his turntable with ADC cartridge spinning Miles Davis helped him study for finals.

Music was and still is an important part of our life. Many of the newer records I bought were due to his young influence. Miles and Brubeck were a couple I passed on to him.

albertporter

Owner
No, I can't quite see this coming back into vogue. I swear that the human race is going to end up like the future Earth population in Wal-E, where nobody moves, especially from their computer.

Mad Comics many year ago explored a similar fate except it was "Push Button" that we succumbed to.

Everyone had turned into a roly poly, unable to do anything except use their pointer finger to push the button on whatever it was they wanted.

At least the computer requires all ten fingers, assuming the operator can type.
Joking aside, I absolutely HATE this trend in modern life for entertainment at a second's notice with no work put into it, and nothing tangible to hold.

I have no problem with things being easier but am an extreme stickler for quality. I put up with playing master tape dubs which are even more work than LP.

Both these analog sources pay back with dividends the extra work required, at least for me.

albertporter

Owner
That's what LP reproduction is all about. No matter where you enter the field, a used $100.00 Lenco or new high end model, the sound has a way of getting into your heart and making you happy.

I wish we could get more people interested in turntables, especially the young folks, some of which have never heard what analog playback offers.

albertporter

Owner
I too am a fan of rim drive having heard what Lenco and Garrard can do.

All drive systems have their strengths and weakness and you no doubt are hearing the "push" and torque of rim drive, providing some of the personality of direct drive.

I'll look for your thread, thanks for calling attention to it.

albertporter

Owner
06-12-12: Whart
Hi, Albert. What arm are you using with the Atlas?

I have the Atlas mounted in a Micro Seiki MAX 282 (Titanium 12" arm) that's rewired with Ikeda silver and Yamamoto head shell and Oyaide silver leads.

Tracking currently at 1.72 almost perfectly level VTA.

albertporter

Owner
This evening was our groups first Tuesday night music session with the new Lyra Atlas.

I expect reviews over the next months to be over the top on this guy. It's the highest resolution, fastest and lowest distortion phono cartridge I've ever heard.

I have less than 20 hours and supposedly not at it's best until beyond fifty.

I'm looking forward to reading other peoples opinion as these get out there.

albertporter

Owner
So far I have only four hours on the Lyra Atlas but I can tell you it's way, way up there in performance.

albertporter

Owner
I hope to have it set up tomorrow, it will still be some time before there are enough hours on it to tell how it performs.

albertporter

Owner
System edited: Added Lyra Atlas

albertporter

Owner
System edited: System edited to show current equipment correctly.

albertporter

Owner
Peter,

I did not compare both ways but agree that the Vibraplane is a huge improvement.

Based on placing other product on the (two) Vibraplanes I estimate the added transparency, extended highs and improved resolution is the 10 gauge silver Purist with triple filter system.

The reduced "clutter" in the music, improved bass tautness and part of the "silence" is the Vibraplane. I plan on moving the power supply back to the shelf under the MK3 after the 25th Anniversary is broken in. That's the easiest and most dramatic way to test and separate.

Meanwhile the second 25th Anniversary was added to my Studer A820 and it's been on since late yesterday. If I don't listen this weekend I will on Tuesday when everyone is here for our regular session.

albertporter

Owner
A very nice addition to the system today. Upgraded to a 2.5 meter Purist 25th Anniversary AC cable which is better than the Limited but also longer, allowing the MK3 motor controller to be placed on one of the Vibraplanes.

Most noticeable was astounding improvement in intelligibility of vocals and instruments, in fact the best I've ever experienced.

Overall the dynamics and signal to noise were improved on all kinds of music and at every SPL. Bandwidth increased mostly in the extreme highs where as low bass speed and tightness improved.

It seem there is no limit to the benefits of continued small improvements, they pile on top of each other and create huge benefits.

albertporter

Owner
Microstrip,

Actually the second machine and lab grade water rinse was less spectacular than I had imagined. Sure, there is a difference but considering the price of a second Audio Desk it's probably a bit over the top.

I know I should be telling a different story about how all of you are missing out by not having two machines but the lions share of work is done first time though the original machine, :^).

The best part is I actually clean records now.

Before the Audio Desk I hated cleaning. My VPI 17F was very noisy and the Odyssey RCM (Keith Monks type) was very time consuming and requires almost constant tending.

Maybe it's just me but it seems a complete waste of time just standing there waiting. Even worse is standing there waiting and the cleaning machine is loud.

albertporter

Owner
You are correct, one Audio Desk is for cleaning and one for lab grade water rinse.

I did not read Fremer's review, assume it was positive?

I no longer use Premier, not because it's not good but rather that the ultrasonic action of the Audio Desk seems to have eliminated the need for any other action or cleaning product.

My cleaning method is as would be expected, LP in first machine and hold the button for two or three beeps (cleaning cycle time). After completion move over to second machine for a single beep cycle.

I never owned the Monks but the Odyssey RCM MK5 was the same machine, just the German version. I had two of them, excellent and no repairs or problems.

No complaints with the Odyssey cleaning, it did the same superb job as the Audio Desk but with ten times the "hands on" effort. I admit I like pressing the button on the Audio Desk and leaving the room.

I think your idea of the VPI 17 for rinse is excellent. I've considered the VPI Typhoon for that job and if so would sell one Audio Desk.

albertporter

Owner
What is Manuka honey?

albertporter

Owner
I continue to be amazed by the Krebs Upgrade performed on my MK3 by Bill Thalmann. I've traded e-mail with Richard Krebs before and after the upgrade and I feel like he's a friend.

I'm excited to say that in about four weeks Richard plans on visiting and listening with me, I'm picking him up at DFW the first week of June, flying in all the way from New Zealand.

The mutual love of music and desire to make it better is what makes this hobby so amazing.

albertporter

Owner
Mentioning the new AC cable for the Studer made me remember my new upgrade path, not yet implemented but on the way.

In addition to the Purist 25th Anniversary silver for the Studer I have another 25th Anniversary under construction for the Technics MK3 power supply.

With the longer cord, the Technics motor controller will fit perfectly on the Vibraplane, just behind the Studer A810.

The Studer got a huge performance bump going on the Vibraplane and I'm betting the turntable motor controller will reap huge benefit as well.

albertporter

Owner
Sam,

Odd that a post would disappear, maybe a glitch while Audiogon is upgrading.

Whatever you come up recording wise, I would be grateful to audition. Ideally you will visit again and we can listen together.

My system has undergone several dozen minor upgrades that add up to a massive improvement since you last listened.

As for tape, I have quite a few more titles than last time, at least a hundred and fifty 10.5" /15 IPS master dubs.

The new 100% silver Purist 25th Anniversary AC cable is being built for the Studer. If it's anything like the improvement it brought to the VTL and Allnic I will be very happy.

albertporter

Owner
Absolutely! I'm thinking of some musician friends who wouldn't mind being recorded. I fully agree -- this is a terrific learning opportunity

Can you go beyond the tempting introduction and tell me what your plan is in the way of recording?

Is this classical material? Piano solo, Jazz, rock and roll ?

albertporter

Owner
Gotta spring for a mic preamp -- was considering two channel, exclusively, until I read up on the Decca tree configuration...hmmm -- might need a mixer, too.

We have your digits and I think you have mine as well...love to share a meal with you, but don't want to horn in on your networking,

Keep me in mind once you capture some sessions, I would love to have something that close to the original source as a tool and for musical enjoyment.

There has to be at least one evening with you and Sonny (or just Sonny and you stay at the hotel :-) It's not necessarily bad if a bunch of us go together, provided we can find seating somewhere.

I'm working for THE Show, the only conflict would be need to capture some of the live events before dinner. Unknown on that right now.

albertporter

Owner
Wow, Mobil 1 is not good?

I was advised to use it in a couple of high end cars I owned, back when the dollar was worth something and I had work :^).

albertporter

Owner
the oil I use for both motor and TT bearings is Motul V300 Power Racing 5-W30. It is a fully synthetic double ester, base is copra.

Seems Bill at Music Technology located the original oil when he serviced my MK3. I like the description you give for the Motul, I'll bet it's similar to Mobil 1.

If the table goes back for something else I'll have Bill look into this oil you mention. I've been corresponding with Richard Krebs, the New Zealand inventor of the Technics upgrades, he says he put you onto the oil so obviously it's approved for this upgrade that Bill does.

albertporter

Owner
Swamp

are we rejecting some useful measurements, like, in this case, wow and flutter and noise? I don't know the answer, but maybe this would be a useful topic for one of the glossy rags to investigate? Get several high quality rim, dd, and belt drive TTs and look at some of the physical measurements to see if they correlate to drive type and then within a drive type see if different measurements can be correlated to different sound qualities?

I would love to see that happen. I think it would be difficult to find willing reviewers, most test by ear. No doubt one's ears are the bottom line but sometimes numbers along with listening has value.

One can only imagine what could be measured with lab grade instruments available today. I doubt any of the mags have these tools on hand but maybe they could be rented.

albertporter

Owner
Mapman,

My point is that the metrics that defined turntables back then seem to be scarecely applied today to help determine actual relative performance levels and asking prices.

That seems to be true, I can't remember the last time I saw those kind of specifications for a turntable.

albertporter

Owner
Mapman,
Wow and flutter

This is what used to be used to quantify turntable performance back in the heyday when all types of drives were common. Is it a lost art these days.

Noise levels are the other thing that matters with a turntable as I recall. Those are also measurable.

Actually the Technics MK3, Pioneer Exclusive and other top performers of that era do test very well.

http://www.thevintageknob.org/technics-SP-10MK3.html

albertporter

Owner
Dover,

Albert - pleased you are happy with the latest mods. It underpins my experiences that power supply improvements in TT's can yield massive improvements. My latest "mod" was to strip the motor in my Final Audio TT,clean and replace the oil with Motul V300 Power, a double ester synthetic that is very unctuous. The Final motor has top & bottom bronze bushes, spindle and thrust pad similar in size to a TT platter bearing. The level of improvement in sound I would describe as substantive as changing from a Koetsu Black to a Koetsu Red. Yoicks.

Reduce friction, improve drive and power, get a performance gain. That makes perfect sense to me. I wonder if the oil you describe would work on the main bearing of the MK3 ?

albertporter

Owner
If I remember correctly, this theory came out in the late 70s or early 80’s when BD advocates tried to explain the superiority of BD. However, I have never seen any concrete prove that this is a fact. I’ll rather believe it depends on the model of the TT rather than the drive system. After all, a BD TT could sound cold too!

I have heard a SP10MKII in a Japanese Lead Console plinth sounding fabulous (without the coldness) in my friend’s system.

I share your opinion and that was a friendly and effective way of stating your position.

albertporter

Owner
TheKong,
Part of the problem could be that both of us were using the stock Technics plinth, which I understood was not that great. We are in the process of getting some slate plinths for our MKIIs

The plinth is a big deal as well as the rebuild on the power supply.

It's easy to just get it running, replace a few caps in the outboard supply and leave the old circuit board and parts under the turntable platter untouched.

With a half way rebuild your description of the sound fits, not much in the way of organic or clean presentation and poor resonance control due to light plinth and 25 year old parts that are way past their prime.

I heard my original MK2 with a stock plinth and platter and then almost immediately built a custom plinth, rebuilt the circuits and added an aftermarket mat and clamp.

As I've posted before, those things are almost the bare necessary for it to show what it's capable of.

I also ran into an Exclusive P3a with a price tag that I couldn’t resists. I have yet to set it up in my system, but I am expecting some serious fun comparing all these TTs in the next few months! For “grounded” arms, will have the FR64S, Phantom MKI, SME V, Schick, Technics EPA 100 ready. :-)

The Exclusive P3a should beat the Technics MK2, I'm interested in your report after you try it. Of the tonearms you list I only had the Technics EPA 100.

albertporter

Owner
Mapman
No doubt there is no place for turntable shenanigans with this crowd! I have no doubt they all sound fantastic! How much better can it get?
Actually it's surprising how much difference there is between various turntables, but you probably know that.

I am a fan of line arrays in the right (generally larger I would think) room, just wondering if you have ever compared and contrasted their presentation with anything more omnidirectional in nature in the same space?

My previous reference speaker, the Sound Lab Ultimate did omnidirectional more correctly than any other speaker I've ever heard. It's curved diaphragm creates a natural figure-8 radiation pattern over a constant 90-degree arc throughout the frequency range.

I loved that speaker but as with all loudspeaker designs there are plus and minus that govern long term satisfaction.

Perhaps if someone built an omni with Sound Lab's phase response along with the ability to produce loud SPL with reasonable power and convincing dynamics then perhaps we would have a near perfect loudspeaker.

Among the strengths of the Dali Megaline is the dipole design of the seven foot long ribbon. Bass becomes less directional as we go deeper and the Dali ribbon is still operating in the few hundred hertz range. The Dali woofer array is rear ported and tuned to produce convincing back wave information to mate with the ribbon.

So in many ways the Dali mimic some of the strengths of the Sound Lab but is utterly reliable, plays loud, had tremendous dynamics and creates "walk through" imaging.

As with all designs I can tear down and build up the Sound Lab and Dali, there is no perfect answer. What's forgotten and perhaps even more important is managing the associated equipment and the room to extract the best from what you already have.

albertporter

Owner
Thekong
The Terminator / Lenco combo, like other good idler drive, had more drive and bass slam, while the Rockport had a blacker background and better layering of instruments within the soundstage. Of course, since we were using different arms, some of the difference might be with the arms instead of the TTs

You too hear the personality of torque in the drive system. I don't doubt the Rockport is quieter than the Lenco. A good belt drive design will win on signal to noise except against the best direct drive.

I could live happily with either TTs. If pressed, I would say I still slightly preferred the characteristics of the Rockport, but I certainly wouldn’t feel deprived if I only had the Lenco. I was so impressed with the slate plinthed PTP Lenco that I also acquired one after the comparison.

As posted earlier in my thread, I too was moved by the power and drive of the Lenco, reminding me of the day many years ago when I gave up my Thorens TD124 MK2 for the soft sounding belt drive Thorens TD125. Those comparisons came flooding back when I heard the Lenco.

The good news is the DD Technics MK2 (and even more so) the Technics MK3 excel at all the requirements. Signal to noise, dynamics, speed accuracy and "power" imparted into the music.

I have also ordered the Salvation / Terminator combo, which should reach me in the next couple of months! :-)
Thekong

I hope you report back, would love to read a comparison of that rig with a grounded (fixed bearing) tonearm thrown into the mix.

albertporter

Owner
The arm is air bearing. I personally don't quite yet get the performance/engineering benefits of the arm, as opposed to the rim drive which is just such a positive advantage over belt drive. In the end I'm a fan of the synergy of the drive and arm technologies.

Many claim that unless the tonearm is "grounded" such as a conventional bearing design, bass is compromised. That's something you would have to experiment with yourself but I tend to agree with the premise after all my experimentation.

albertporter

Owner
I do feel this tt with the integral linear tracking arm will get me a fair way along the analog musical nirvana path that is the SP10/NVS at a fraction of the entry ticket ($5-6000 the pair). To get an idea of the engineering, go to the 'Lenco Heaven' website, then to 'other turntables', then to 'from Lenco to Salvation'.

My path to the MK3 began slightly more than eight years ago, Rim Drive so I understand your enthusiasm about the project.

Lenco is just one example of what torque and drive bring to the music. Rim drive have problems as do all turntables, but considering it's entry level price the Lenco is an absolute bargain.

The MK3 is the ultimate solution but pace, timing and power of a good rim drive is certainly a good taste of what one is missing with softer drive systems.

Investment wise your solution is very wise. Performance to investment should be balanced over the entire system, not concentrated into just one spot. I think much of the discussion about performance of any part of a high end system is frequently derailed when tests cannot produce expected results.

When I first began posting at Audiogon nearly fourteen years ago I met a wall of resistance at the mere mention that there were performance differences in power cords and interconnect.

As things evolve we all begin to accept things more nearly alike, although there will always remain differences in taste and preference.

Last, does the arm you mention float on air or is it connected directly to it's support system?

albertporter

Owner
Spiritofmusic,

It's been too long since my wife and I visited the UK ,many fond memories including an Irishman who fussed at me for ordering Scotch Whiskey at a fancy hotel bar.

A couple of British gentlemen told him something to the effect, "There's a good lad, let the American drink whatever he likes."

Still it was funny and I made friends with the Irishman and the Brits at the bar to the extent that I fell in bed stone drunk at the end of the evening (or early morning). My wife had long given up on us crazy guys and retired to bed.

The table you describe reads to be an effective solution to LP playback. Personally I believe torque and sheer motor power is what determines the "drive" and power personality of any turntable.

A soft belt drive table is always pretty and quiet but lacks the slam of master tape and the timing that makes you believe it's real music. The rim drive you describe may not be as quiet as a direct drive or belt drive but it probably has the punch.

I'm convinced a spread sheet of attributes can be drawn from any given table design, provided implementation is correct so sloppy engineering is deleted from the equation.

albertporter

Owner
I've gotten considerable email about the mods that Bill Thalmann does to Technics MK2 and MK3. I got numbers from him today and assume these are close but could vary depending on condition of the equipment sent in for repair/mods.

Electrical upgrade for the Mk3 is $800.00
Electrical upgrade for the Mk2 is $550.00

New (mechanical) super mods for MK3 is $1200.00
New (mechanical) super mods MK2 is pending.

Please contact Bill Thalmann for schedule or whatever other arrangement you require. I do not control this or have any connection other than being a strong supporter of Bill and Music Technology.

Other than that, I'm happy to report my experience.

albertporter

Owner
Spiritofmusic,

Perhaps Mike's system and mine are sufficiently different that both of us are reporting accurate and honest results.

I have not heard Mike's system in a long time, many upgrades since I was last there. Then again, my system has been totally transformed over the past few months and transformed is conservative term compared to what's happened.

I don't suppose you live anywhere near DFW area so you can come listen?

albertporter

Owner
Yes, thanks for that great suggestion Lawrence.

albertporter

Owner
Lawrence,

I had to look that up, Hoyer lift is a great idea. Would probably work perfect and cost is reasonable. Even found some at Ebay and Amazon.

albertporter

Owner
Sam,

I hope to have a chance to hear some of those tapes, they would be closer to the source than anything available, such as The Tape Project.

Maybe make a sample of some favorites and I'll pay you for some dupes.

As for Newport, I think you have my cell number, I arrive the day before the show, usually a group of us could get together and go out to dinner.

albertporter

Owner
Added another phono cartridge

albertporter

Owner
Sam,

-- available to record and reproduce our own tapes...recording graduate student recitals, for example...as well as execute analog tape transfers.

That reads to be an exciting project. What will the musical content be, mostly classical? For me quality is half the project and content the other half.

My library contains a few "audiophile" records which are great sonics but lacking musically. The same can be said for certain Tape Project titles.

Hopefully you will bridge the gap and accomplish both. I'm certainly interested in hearing these on my Studer if possible.

Will you and Sonny be at Newport?

albertporter

Owner
John,

I hope your talk of coming to Dallas is true. I have evolved the system so much since your last visit I'm not sure you will recognize it.

The MK3 was a very expensive turntable in its day and I doubt all that many were built. I wish I had kept my second one when I had it.

I will say that getting a MK3 right is akin to finding an antique car in a barn. It's cool and fun but restoring to better than new is a HUGE project. Most people who have heard a MK3 (even before this last mod) have not heard fully what it's capable of.

albertporter

Owner
Sean,

The improvements are supposed to be more of the same as I've already experienced. I've had some time to think about this and I guess what I expected was better signal to noise, more black or whatever term you wish to use to describe quietness.

It is a bit quieter but by far the astonishing thing is resolution, big resolution changes and amazing lowering of distortion. It was already the lowest distortion transport I've ever owned and now it's moved another step.

What I keep thinking as a way to describe may not make sense, but I'm going to say it because what I'm hearing I've never experienced before.

Imagine music as very large peaks of sound with valleys on either side. The peaks always satisfied you and dynamics and low level details were as good as you ever experienced.

Then the modified table comes back and you now realize the valleys were full of sand or dust. Now they are sparkling clean and there is another entire level of information down there that has never been before. Going from LP to LP in my library I find information, contrast and space within the music that was never revealed before.

Also the extreme high frequencies are absolutely 3D. They hang in space with their own dynamic and sense of space while maintaining the same perfect speed and timing that was previously there.

Sorry if I come off too flowery, I'm excited because a change at the source is huge for the entire system and this was a huge source improvement. I was not expecting one fourth of what I got.

albertporter

Owner
My post in this thread back in March:

03-12-12: Albertporter
My MK3 is on the way back to Music Technology for what is promised to be a major upgrade.

I received the MK3 last week and was told it would be at two or possibly three months before the full benefit would be realized.

With only "out of the box" play I was not prepared for the upgrade Bill Thalmann achieved with the MK3.

Just to make it clear, I have no involvement in the mod other than loving Bill's work and being a happy customer.

I'm still trying to come up with words to describe the improvements, it is not exactly like anything else I've experienced and it took a couple of days to believe and accept.

I will continue to listen and come up with a clear description (if possible).

Also, Bill and his counterpoint Richard Krebs in New Zealand are working on a similar mod to be performed on the Technics MK2.

albertporter

Owner
Sonics are what it's all about, there are few of us with substantial tape library to make tape their exclusive format so what few we have need to represent a "goal" to be achieved from LP and CD.

What a goal the very best tapes set.

albertporter

Owner
Eddie, is that version of A80 still available or something that was a limited or one of a kind model?

I too use the A810 return to zero. Perfect for those tapes where the music ends with tape remaining. Push the return to zero button and Studer comes to a graceful, slow stop just as the tape leader pulls of the spool.

albertporter

Owner
Micro:
I also feel that a machine without bridge will sound better, as the signal flow will be shorter. But sometimes this is not true.
Most people agree that no bridge is better performance. I have not heard but it makes sense as the signal is routed more direct with bridge removed.

I think most of the debate about the A820 versus A80 audio performance is due to the presence of the old NE5532 IC used in the audio boards of the first one versus the discrete transistors of the A80.

Exactly. That's the same answer I get from everyone. A80 simple circuit versus A820. I spoke to a Studer expert over the weekend and they pointed out the reason for the design of the A820 and subsequent complexity.

The A80 has one EQ, you must remove circuit boards to change. The A80 has two speeds, 7.5 & 15 or 15 & 30. The A820 can do it all and almost on the fly. For a studio this is a big deal.

Even in my system the EQ is split between NAB and IEC, making the removal of A80 circuit board more frequent that I would be comfortable with.

I could easily live with the 7.5 and 15, I have no 3.75 tapes and no 30 tapes. Still, the audiophile in me wishes for the flexibility and beauty of the A820.

Last, the two machines in top condition still differ in tape handling. Experts tell me the A820 is the champ in that department.

Perhaps this is important, perhaps not. In our life time we could not pile on the hours a commercial studio would do in a year.

albertporter

Owner
Spiritofmusic,

Without responding to every comment in your post I can safely say you are correct that less investment in a lower version DD table provides better performance per dollar than either the MK3 or NVS.

That's the way high end audio was when I discovered it and it's only become more true as equipment evolves and becomes more expensive.

I believe that at this end of the market improvements are more subtle than they purport, whereas your comments seem more rooted in the real world and you give enthusiasm and 'best ever' comments sparingly.

I've been at this for what seems like forever. There is no "best," only what's best at that point and then you discover another way to get an improvement.

I continue to improve my system steadily but none of it is earth shaking. What's important is to hang on to all the micro improvements, no matter how hard they are to capture.

One day you look up and realize all the tiny bits have added into a significant upgrade worth bragging about. The problem is it's never all at once where you have that Eureka! moment.

Worse, this whole operation requires a massive amount of effort and dicipline. Not too many know about much less care or appreciate what's required.

albertporter

Owner
Peter,

I began with the NVS plus Vibraplane and was advised the supplied isolation base provided better performance. I removed the Vibraplane and listened with the factory base for about a week and indeed the NVS platform does work quite well and sounds excellent.

Bass push, dynamics or whatever you want to call it was not significantly effected by either isolation system.

When you bring in footfalls, loud listening and/or impact from sub woofers, superior results were had with the Vibraplane.

Two weeks ago the NVS was put back on the Vibraplane and that's the way I'm listening now.

I'm guessing that in some systems the NVS factory isolation platform might provide equal performance. The NVS platform might even be superior in some cases. The final outcome varies from system to system and likely dependant on floor, room acoustics, total SPL and other variables.

Me, I prefer with the Vibraplane for not only the NVS and MK3 but the Studer A810 tape machine as well. For whatever reason it's a good thing in my system.

I've yet to add the steel ballast plate you mention. I know you're correct with that advice. I've just had too many things going on with the house and system to get the plates cut, ground, painted and transported here from the vendor who's on the other side of town.

albertporter

Owner
Sorry about cleaver rather than clever, that's what happens when I leave spell correction on rather than using my brain :^).

albertporter

Owner
Spiritofmusic,

I have no idea what's going on with that, perhaps it's the power or control of the motor or maybe something I'm not cleaver enough to know about.

The NVS is indeed a spectacular table but it and the MK3 are very different. That being said, Mike Lavigne did the same test at his home and much prefers the NVS. In fact he prefers the NVS over the Rockport, MK3 and Steve Dobbins table.

I wish you lived nearby, you could audition them both and cast your vote.

albertporter

Owner
Ddriveman,

I like the MAX 282, perhaps as much as the SME. I did not hear the MAX as stock version. I bought from Daniel Brakemeier (Dertonearm here at Audiogon) and he rewired it for me with silver (Ikeda?) wire.

With the MAX I'm using the Yamamoto HS-1AS headshell and the new Oyaide silver headshell leads. With all that done to the Micro it's in the category with SME 312S which is factory wired with silver.

I prefer the silver Oyaide leads in the SME, changed that only a month or so ago after trying a couple of other brands in that position. Swapping leads is relatively easy and inexpensive for the benefit received.

As for Talea, guys in my group prefer it over all others and some prefer the SME. The Talea is champ in midrange and upper frequencies, SME excels in deep bass and control.

Then again, I have the same thing happen when we compare Koetsu Coralstone against Air Tight Supreme. Different sound, great quality.

albertporter

Owner
Mufuta,

I have a call into a couple of Studer guys and will inquire as to what my options are. Noted about just removing the bridge without taking into consideration the circuit.

albertporter

Owner
Your comments have convinced me to remain on high alert for an A80, provided I can afford one once I find it.

So far the jury vote is 100% in favor of the A80. Anyone with comments about "improved performance" with A80 meter bridge removed?

albertporter

Owner
Microstrip
The good thing about the A80 audio and supply cards is that they only use discrete components and you can upgrade them significantly just changing a few critical parts. I have recently got a spare pair of playback cards to modify.

Yep, basically what I posted based on conversations I've had with Studer fans.

I was also told the A80 sounds better without the meter bridge. If true that might not be a bad thing. The package would take up less room and fewer things to go wrong.

albertporter

Owner
Kipdent
The A80 handles tape... beautifully. ;-)

Compared to A810? A820?

albertporter

Owner
That's not the first time I've read that response.

I'm told the A80 is more or less "discrete" electronic parts where the A820 had begun to evolve to Op Amps and other less desirable integrated solutions.

I wonder how the A80 handles tape compared to the A810 that I'm accustomed to?

albertporter

Owner
Tape simply is the closest to the unaltered, unedited, uncompressed original as we can ever hope to have.

Could not have said it better, that's what makes tape so enjoyable.

Any opinion about A80 versus A820? I read opinions both sides on that topic but unfortunately I have no way to listen, although I love my A810.

albertporter

Owner
Kip,

I forgot to ask, is your Studer A80 stock or rebuilt? If rebuilt who did the work?

albertporter

Owner
Kipdent,

I liked what I saw in your system, many of the same things I value. Tubes, Studer and turntable music sources and ribbon speakers.

Your restored Garrard 301 does indeed have "drive" but no doubt difficult for the idler system to function as quietly as top belt drive and direct drive tables. The fact the 301 still hangs in there with the best when it was built 60 years ago is staggering.

This past Tuesday night we listened mostly to the Studer. I have a fair number of tapes and since there were some new visitors I wanted the system to sound it's best.

The Studer keeps me grounded and pushing my turntable to try and reach ideal performance from my vinyl. Records are the most important format for me, the balance between large available library and "close" to tape quality, at least on some titles.

I hope your visit becomes a reality. We were close (in December?) when things fell through. In any case you are welcome whenever it works for you.

albertporter

Owner
Albert, That sounds interesting. Is it available for the Mk2 as well?

I don't see why not, I have a call into Bill to ask but both are direct drive and somewhat similar.

As for your tests, I would remove the Cu-180 before adding another mat. Getting the Cu-180 off is much easier if you use a strip of duct tape across the mat and gently lift from the two tape edges.

I would avoid any tool, even a jewelers screw driver as prying will scratch the mat and turntable platter.

One clamp combo with Cu-180 that's nice and well balanced is the 580 Gram TT Weights Superclamp. It tightens onto the turntable spindle. Other models from TT Weights were not as good in my system.

The Walker clamp is the best bass and has a neutral top end but more damped than the TT Weights. That can be good or bad, depending on your taste, the cartridge and possibly even the turntable footers. This is a mechanical package and it's entirety depends on each and every part.

With the clamps that tighten onto the spindle, you can apply varying force to the clamp just as you tighten, essentially adding or subtracting "weight" on the LP while not effecting mass of the platter or load on the bearing.

I think it will prove better with no washer of any kind but perhaps in your situation that advice will prove wrong.

This is what the TT Weights clamp looks like:

http://www.ttweights.com/catalog/item/6984492/6999420.htm

albertporter

Owner
Albert--maybe the occasion of being without your Mk3 will allow you to begin sharing detailed assessments and opinions of the NVS... There are some curious folks out here!

No change in opinion from before. I did have Scott come and do setup of the Talea arm to be sure I had everything correct. The table and arm are very quiet, pretty midrange and very open presentation.

I prefer the bass output of my DD table and my two older tonearms. These are variables much like discussion of Dynavector cartridge versus Air Tight or Lyra. Lots of personal preference involved.

Your own system is absolutely stunning, what a line up! Several people who own the MS table rave about them, have you had a top flight DD table such as MK3 or Exclusive that were properly restored? What if any differences did each design offer?

albertporter

Owner
My MK3 is on the way back to Music Technology for what is promised to be a major upgrade.

Bill is authorized to perform the modification developed by a mechanical engineer in Auckland New Zealand and includes work on the sense coils, motor pole pieces and laminations, motor housing and circuit board along with the bearing structure.

Supposed to drastically improve performance as well as reliability. We shall see upon it's return.

albertporter

Owner
Sarcher30,

Metal washer, or removing it all together should be better with the Cu-180.

The Clearaudio mat sounds like the same design as Funk Firm from GB. I have one of those here, it's a nice mat but I still prefer the metal ones.

Measure to be sure the Clearaudio mat diameter is such that it does not hang on the raised lip of the Technics platter. The Funk Firm version had to have the diameter slightly trimmed, which was a lot of trouble.

albertporter

Owner
Sarcher30,

I'm happy it worked for you, your post reads like you got same results I did.

What clamp if any are you using? Choice of clamp (or center weight) is even more audible after adding this mat.

Unknown why but it certainly was in my system. I've gone through a dozen or more clamps, frustrating that each has a different sound.

albertporter

Owner
Audioblazer:
Albert, I m with you on this . 17 years 3 turntables does indicate that you tried to squeeze every ounce possible out of the turntables.

Doing photography for the audio business allows me some advantages. I've heard many turntables but choose not to purchase them.

Over my lifetime the turntable list is quite long but frequently (such as my Lenco project) I was having fun, learning and the goal was an inexpensive ($95.00 then !) turntable for my teen age son.
1 person meat is another person poison.

Or according to Paul Simon, "One Man's Ceiling Is Another Man's Floor."

albertporter

Owner
Dover posted:
I would say 95% of the posts on this forum are from people who haven't heard the gear in question in their own system, or who are commenting on their own purchases, for which the reader has no reference ( where from, to ) and of course if I bought it, it must be good.

That may be true, people buy based on name brand, dealer recommendation, reviews and sometimes only the design + cosmetics.

Once the buyer commits, it's natural (and good) that they are enjoying music from this new perspective and cannot resist expressing happiness.

I'm pretty jaded after all these years. Not soured, I still love it but I'm extremely cautious about blessing changes too quickly.

I have the same flaws and problems as everyone else and force myself to redraw my perspective over and over until I know what the change is in my heart and mind, not just my ears.

As a former high end dealer, I was astonished at how many people, and its a male attribute, have already decided what something is going to sound like based on looks, technology or hearsay. In other words, even when they are sitting in front of the stereo, they are still not listening.

I agree and understand fully, I ran three high end stores beginning way back when McIntosh and Marantz were king and people came to the store for weeks (or months) before spending big bucks on a high end system.

I wouldn't buy some of the gear you use, but your insights are great and shared knowledge is appreciated.
Perfectly understandable, that's why we have so many high quality choices to build our system from.

Much of what's in my system I've explored enough to know that in some cases "higher performance" is an illusion in that it's a trade off. I get higher resolution but mess up the tonal balance. I get more bass but it muddies up the midrange, and so on. I think all of us that work on this for very long realize it's a tight rope we're walking.

Certainly my digital is lame compared to what's available, the problem is I don't have enough money to do maximum quality on every piece and on every level. I do have plans for digital upgrade when I can afford it.

Possibly speaker upgrade too in the not so distant future. I've only owned two speakers over the last twenty one years.

The problem is finding a replacement that is TRULY superior in enough ways that I never regret giving up my current choice.

albertporter

Owner
03-09-12: Glai
I was referring to albert's post.

I was not sure, but was hoping Audiogon got that out of order. Thanks for that and also for explaining the IKEA obstacle in your system thread.

Few people test with the idea of learning and advancing their system, your room measurement efforts are the exception. I hope it leads to more musical enjoyment.

albertporter

Owner
Lharasim posted
I am not the internet audio police but you have gone through several turntables in the last few years claiming each and every one fabulous....people need to have a better understanding of your goals..and take everything with a mist of salt!

I had Walker for more than a decade, went to Technics which I prefer. That switch was at least seven years ago.

Seventeen years, two turntable brands until arrival of the NVS which is not replacing the Technics.

So, your statement Is false. As for that Technics MK2 sounding screwed up, sorry my advice did not meet your expectations.

Which makes me wonder why you ask my opinion a second time, only so you can argue about it when I accommodate you.

albertporter

Owner
no offense Albert but you evaded my questions... again I ask the question what are you trying to accomplish?

Even if someone typed the perfect phrase. A creative explanation of goals that fit (whatever) is your ideal, It means nothing.

You have no idea what that persons quality standards are. You don't know if they have the ability to discriminate between good and bad sound.

Have you ever been to a high end show and the person next to you leans over and says, "That's the best thing I've ever heard," and the whole demo you wanted to RUN from the room it was so bad?

That's happened to me many times. In that situation who's goals were right and who's were wrong?

if you do not have a goal to work for/to either to make your system play like live music or other... your just playing with yourself with equipment changes

My goal is to make my system as wide a bandwidth as possible, recreate music as realistically as possible at ALL sound pressure levels with as close to zero distortion as I can get.

I want to be able to play any song by any artist from my thousands of LP collection, and not be offended if the engineering is imperfect. I want to be able to reproduce music at sound pressure levels approaching a live venue.

I have 9000 watts and can easily sustain peaks of 110 Db, (not at one meter like most tests) but at the listening position 14 feet away on a sofa in a room with 5,600 cubic feet.

I accomplish this with no ear fatigue other than excessive volume stress if sustained for a long period of time.

(selling this turntable for that one etc) do you get where i am going with this.

I owned the Walker for over ten years. I switched to Technics a few years ago and it's still my reference. Which reminds me, what did you do with your Technics that you ask my advice on? Maybe you switch more than I do.

My turntable is judged against my Studer A810, restored to perfection by Studer North America. I have a sizable library of master tape, many of them are the ones used to cut the records I compare them to.

Obviously I hope to make the turntable reproduce the LP as close to the original as possible. There is no better source than the master so I think that's a lofty goal.

I've had a number of industry people visit and listen to my system, one was only a couple of weeks ago.

A few months ago a reviewer from a well known magazine listened to my system when I played a Duke Ellington (live) master tape. Afterward he said it was the first time EVER that he heard a consumer stereo system duplicate live music.

I can quote others, including one speaker manufacturer (a competitor to Dali that I use) that said, "Maybe I should get out of the business" after hearing my system.

That leads me to believe my goals are pretty good, these guys hear a lot of stuff.

let move forward people

To move forward we must disobey your commandment to "not" swap one piece of equipment for another. No one can know exactly what a piece of equipment will do until you listen to it.

albertporter

Owner
see steeling from peter to pay paul syndrome meaning you just keep making trade offs with equipment but do not have direction on where you are going...never once have I read that it sounds more like real live music with your changes

You obviously do not know me, I maintain a steady upward direction with my system by comparing and testing.

All high end systems are a trade off, it is not possible to get them perfect, that simply does not exist.

I have many years of experience and understand fully the value of each trade off. I accept the limitations I cannot correct and make better the things I can.

Regardless if we're talking about race cars, learning a new language or becoming a better parent there simply is no end and one must enjoy the journey as much as the destination.

I make my music experience better every year and the whole time I share with a like minded group. We all learn, we all share opinion and best of all we listen to a lot of music.

albertporter

Owner
Sean,

The Micro Seiki Cu-180 mats I owned appear to have a clear coat sealer, usually in less than prefect condition after all these years.

One side has Kanji script (round sticker) and the other side is unmarked. The Kanji instructs, this side down.

You can clean up your mat with Copper Glo (or similar) and dry with soft towel It will look great for a few weeks and then likely need it again. Pristine to perfect Cu-180 exist but cost a fortune.

These are images of "good" condition Cu-180 I owned:

Cu-180 Bottom

Cu-180 Top

albertporter

Owner
Sarcher30 ask:

Another mat that looks interesting is the 4 lb. copper mat from TTweights. Do you think that would work as well as the Cu-180 on the mk2? The Cu-180 seem to go for around $600.00 and are not very easy to find. The Cu-180 I believe is made of gunmetal. I wonder if gunmetal is better at blocking emi/rfi than copper?

I like the TT Weights people, I had several of their mats, four or five at least. I liked their mat but still favored the Micro Seiki Cu-180.

As for Gunmetal offering better blocking of EMI/RFI, I doubt it.

albertporter

Owner
Spiritofmusic,
Re your opinion that you prefer the SP10/NVS over the Walker; since the Walker is superior in all engineering respects ie isolation/airbearing/vacuum hold down/material mass,

MK3 is on a Vibraplane, precisely the same engineering idea Walker applies. however, the Vibraplane offers superior isolation from foot falls and sub woofers in my room. Could vary in other situations and with other floors.

The Walker is not vacuum hold down and never has been. LP mating to platter is achieved by lead washers around the spindle (raising the LP in the center) plus heavy center weight and spindle clamping action by clockwise screwing the knob.

It's quite effective and achieves what the clamp does on NVS and clamps I choose for Technics. Most turntables work with these clamps and there must be dozens of brands at every imaginable price.

Air bearing is potentially excellent for turntable platter, not so much so with tonearm where you trade grounded bearing for floating bearing. Material mass is relevant only when it contributes to performance, reliability or stability.

I owned the latest Walker and had it (counting all versions) in my system for more than ten years. It is a wonderful piece of engineering and I loved mine very much, not to mention Lloyd Walker is a great guy.

Later I discovered the sound of torque, speed accuracy and dynamic power from a well executed direct drive design. You can't have it both ways and for my ears the latter is more true to the music and closer to master tape.

or as belt drive advocates argue, is it the synergy of isolation/mass/materials, plus speed, that work as a whole, speed being vital but not a deal breaker?

Belt drive has the advantage of not transferring motor noise to the platter. The fact it disconnects the motor from the platter is why it does not deliver the power and torque of a direct drive. Isolation /mass materials you mention don't necessarily imply speed accuracy or performance. The design and implementation is the big contributor to performance.

Other than the Trans Fi, Brinkmann Bardo, Grand Prix Monaco 1.5, Inspire (Technics SL 1200 based) Monarch, there is no chance of auditioning DD/idler in UK/Europe (plenty of belt drives, however), so choice to go non-belt feels a little risky due to lack of exposure.

Maybe you should consider a trip to the USA and decide for yourself. This is a large investment, the trip would potentially save you money.

Any chance of the NVS having a home in the UK to be able to be auditioned. If I find I love her more than my girlfriend! I might be tempted to invest in her.

I can check to see if anyone in Europe plans on taking on NVS. The German Hi Fi show is coming up, could be some cool listening options there and it's much closer to home for you.

Should you decide to travel here, you would have many turntable options to listen to. The Seattle guys would likely welcome you for an NVS audition, plus the Newport, CA. high end show is June 1.

Regardless of the date, If you arrange to fly home via DFW International you could listen to NVS and Technics MK3 before you return at my place.

albertporter

Owner
Spiritofmusic ask:

Albert, in the UK we're a little short on choice re DD/idler. Our choices are limited to the Garrard 501 (overpriced in my opinion), Brinkmann Bardo which is undoubtedly impressive, or importing a Grand Prix Monaco 1.5/Steve Dobbins The Beat, refurbished Garrard 301 or 401/Technics SP10 Mk2 or 3/Lenco L75 (Oswalds Mill, Artisan Fidelity, Steve Dobbins) which obviously can't be auditioned first in the UK, or the NVS, which is to die for but priceiest of all, and again impossible to audition in the UK.

From strictly a performance to dollar standpoint the easiest is buy and rebuild the Technics SP10 MK2.

These are downright cheap, I see them for as little as $700.00 in poor cosmetic condition. I suggest you purchase one that's here in the USA and have the seller ship to Bill Thalmann at Music Technology.

Once rebuilt he can ship to you and you can operate it in the stock plinth or purchase one from any number of people manufacturing them (including myself).

Can you check out what appears to be the most affordable of all options: the Trans Fi Audio Salvation idler drive, which uses a variation on the Teres Vertus idler drive, with it's Terminator T3Pro linear tracking tonearm: the total package approximates to $4500, and seems a fantastic bargain in this company. Indeed at a demo in the Far East some months ago, a lot of listeners in a blind trial preferred the Trans Fi sporting a Decca London Ref cart against the Rockport Sirius 3 with Ortofon A90 cart (Mike Lavigne's prev rig).

That seems an amazing bargain but I confess I have absolutely no experience with it. The fact it's idler gives me hope because idler and direct drive both have the personality of "power" and dynamics that I require. Certainly the $4500.00 price tag is great, I only wonder about signal to noise ratio, something that cannot be "repaired" later with idler drive design. If you heard it on a wide bandwidth system, something with true deep bass ability and there was no issues that table would rise to the top of my bargain list.

Last, the Terminator T3Pro linear tracking tonearm seems to be a bargain and looks nice for the price. I cannot comment having not heard it but will say that air bearing linear track tonearms excel in that they virtually eliminate tracking error but the trade off is "sloppy" bearing from dynamics and deep bass output. This is not a condemnation of the Terminator, rather an observation about air bearing design and acceptance of the fact that every design has plus and minus.

A rigid bearing such as SME, Triplanar, Reed and others of similar design typically lock down things better than a bearing supported only by air. Again, all designs are a trade off and it takes a lot of listening to determine which is personally best for your ears.

albertporter

Owner
Lbelchev posted:

Dear Albert,

Do you think the MS CU-180 is good for the MK2? I see the opposite opinion from the Lewm's post (about TT101, but I think the same applies for the MK2). What are your observations?

I love what the Cu-180 does for the MK2 but it's possible the sound that I get with that mat is not as attractive to another set of ears. The Cu-180 compared to stock mat is faster, more extended, more detail, cleaner and goes deeper in the bass.

Testing with Timeline there is no speed or reliability issue with a "healthy" Technics MK2 fitted with MS Cu-180.

The quote you supplied by Lewm appears to be addressing the 101, which is a different design than the MK2. I would defer to Lewm on that since I have no experience with that. With Technics MK2 I have long term experience with many mats and as stated above, the Cu-180 has not proven to be any problem for MK2 or MK3.

If you have concerns you can use the Boston Carbon Mat, it's a great sounding product, cost less and is lighter. Really, it's totally a safe bet. I do advise you try the Micro Seiki Cu-180 at some point.

As for Lewm comments about "super" heavy mats, I agree totally. My TTM is a perfect example. It weighs 6.61 pounds, so it's not appropriate for MK2. However, the MK3 has a stock platter made of copper alloy what weighs 22 pounds and was demonstrated at introduction with a Japanese female standing on the platter while it was started and stopped.

I don't suggest an additional 80 + pounds but in my system the addition 6 pounds proves flawless sound and the Sutherland Timeline shows absolutely no speed variance.

For those reasons I will currently remain with those choices, at least until (and unless) I find superior performance by another method.

albertporter

Owner
Hi Albert, great info. As you know I'm wanting to ad a DD table to me system to offer another flavour and find mt self leaning closer to adding either a SP10 MK3 or Kondo The Beat

As you know Steve also offers the MK3 but highly suggests his Beat surpasses such sonically.

I have my opinion, you can decide for yourself. Steve is a friend so you will not get me to comment on this. Perhaps you can get the two tables together and test.

Yes the MK3's seem to be very limited and when you do find one as you mentioned very costly and the question is has it been properly modified.

What are the difference between yours, Steve Dobbins and Artisan Fidelity.

Steve typically removes the chassis of the MK3, leaving only the platter showing. He could have changed that since I last saw one so best you contact him and ask.

As for mine, there is complete documentation on the Technics web site, my web site and here at Audiogon. As for Artisan Fidelity, I don't know how through they are on rebuilding the table itself but the plinth is a copy of mine. There are about 30 kinds of man made wood (Panzerholz). We discovered ours though a job with Exxon Mobil, doubtful anyone else has access.

That being said, the design is rather old now and our new version is in the works. I won't make the mistake this time of telling the competition what we did. They will have to purchase one to find out.

I have not seen such in person. I have been in contact with Chris and of course he says his sounds over all superior over yours and Steve D, visa versa with Steve also. Chris mention he has first hand experience with both of your tables.

I'm not going to join that battle. I suggest you purchase the one offered by Chris because I cannot supply you anyway.

albertporter

Owner
Sarcher posted:
Albert, Right now I'm alternating between a Boston Audio Mat 1 and the Herbies Way Excellent 2 mat. I have tried the HRX weight from my VPI Classic a couple of times. It did not seem to make much of a difference on the MK2. I have an old clamp I have not tried yet. What have you had success with?

Best for bass, the Walker Proscenium clamp which I don't think is available separately. It only works with a hard mat such as Micro Seiki Cu-180 or Boston in my tests.

Best overall for the money is the TT Weighs Superclamp 580 gram. I like it with Boston mat, Micro Seiki mat and even with TTM. The TTM is still superior with it's own Oil damped weight.

I also love the Pierre Lurne clamp with felt filler over methacrylate but I don't think he makes these any longer. The one I heard belongs to a Dagogo reviewer.

I recently purchased the Oyaide mat and clamp but have not had time to test either. It's a hard mat and lightweight so if it works it could be great for MK2 since it's probably no heavier than the stock rubber mat.

albertporter

Owner
Sarcher30,

Not surprised you were unable to get FerriShield flat. The material is hard to cut and maintain shape plus a smooth edge.

Add to that, it's seldom flat from the supplier, only to get bent up even more in shipping.

The Micro Seiki Cu-180 is good with the MK2, I like what it does. The Cu-500 sounds even better but I've only tried it on MK3. Could be too much weight for MK2.

If you go to the Cu-180 what clamp are you using?

albertporter

Owner
Sean,

You know how to ask difficult questions :-).

Let me begin by saying the MK2 was the table that started me down the DD path. I bought it cheap with the goal of making it half as good as the reference I had at that time.

The remainder is history, the MK2 is awesome, provided everything that it needs is done by a proper technician and with proper plinth.

Fast forward to MK3, I read it was the flagship from Technics and much better than MK2.

After some difficult searching and bargaining I found my first one (several years ago now) and have owned at least four of them now (or is five?).

To answer your question, the MK3 with everything on it to the maximum, against the MK2 with everything at maximum the MK3 is maybe 30% - 35% better.

If a person had a MK2 with everything perfect the listener would assume nothing could be better.

The MK3 is like nothing I've ever heard. I resist discussion about it too much because it's frustrating that there are so few and the ones that are available are either in poor condition, too much money or both.

As to plinth, I listened with Technics plinth and a half dozen of our plinths. Beginning with our original Wenge wood version and variations of the Panzerholz and premium lumber (not veneer) wood exteriors.

Speaking of plinths. Mine has been copied by several people, so we spent the past 7 months working on a serious upgrade. Hope to have within a few months.

albertporter

Owner
Hello Peter,

I have the source lined up for the steel ballast plates, the delay was getting the schedule set where the powder coat could take over when the metal shop finished.

About the time I got things organized the two new tonearms arrived plus a new cartridge, new tonearm cable, two pair of new speaker cables and two new AC cables. It was a bad time to throw in another variable.

All those changes are why there were so many edits on my system thread after Audiogon opened the link again.

As for recent tone arm tests, as usual I still love the SME 312S but now that the Micro Seiki MAX 282 is breaking in I would rate it equal to the SME but different.

This is the first time I've accepted another arm as the SME equal. The Micro is a bit more detail in the midrange and similar dynamics ("maybe" a micro bit more than SME).

The Micro has beautiful, refined high frequencies and excellent bass. I'm still not certain the bass on the Micro is equal to the SME at the very lowest frequencies. Maybe a decision on that in coming weeks.

I hope to receive the new Lyra Atlas within a month or so, the first batch flew out so quick I did not react soon enough.

albertporter

Owner
Dev,

Apologies in advance, this will be a long post due to quoting you each time to keep the thought process clear.

I'll answer as best I can in the same order you ask each question.
Hi Albert, has Scott come over as of yet confirming your Talea set-up is 100%?

No, I think he is currently back in Seattle.

So what were your findings in comparison to relation to using the small halo compared to the larger one under you NVS table?

Perhaps you forgot, that table was the one damaged in shipping. So in addition to the inferior wooden arm boards, it's bearing was not functioning 100%. Pretty easy for the new one to defeat it.

I'm sure by now you have a handle on the difference v/s using your Vibraplane under such so kindly do share.

I like the Vibraplane, I know some do not but in my system with the SPL I can create in the room, it's a superior product in every way for both my turntable and the Studer A810. Likely would also improve the performance of my preamp and phono. Maybe if the economy improves I'll buyer another and experiment.

Sub-woofers, is there a specific reason why you choice the model you did over others within the family?

I made friends with one of the chief engineers at JL Audio. I originally intended purchasing the larger version but was told the Fathom 212 was a newer design. Not only faster, but superior in some ways and far better suited to the Dali line array design. The largest Dali drivers are only 6.25". Fast subs are a necessity to have any hope of blending.

Have you tried other subs and if so what did you find to be the differences?


I had REL, Fosgate and Signet. None of these were really suited for two channel so perhaps the end result was inevitable. The JL Fathom 212 is quick with no overhang and blends perfectly with my line array.

In your system was the sonic benefits so great that it was a no brainer to add such? If so what were those.
Not a no brainer at all, at least not in the beginning. For a long time I had problems with driving the subs without getting an interaction with my main speakers (electrically). I can explain that again but it's posted in my forum thread earlier. The problem is Class D and impedance.

Now that all the problems are resolved, material with (true) deep bass is superior with the subs engaged. You can disengage the subs and play select program material without any overall system change. This just proves the subs are set super low, which is what was necessary to get them right.

I read you have them connected directly to your pre-amp using balanced IC's so I take it you are using their set-ups.
I had a custom JFET buffer built since the JL Audio subs were not suitable for integration with my tube preamp and tube amps. The custom buffer changed what the preamp saw from 10K to 470K and isolated the (JL Audio) digital amp from the remainder of the system.

Result is the Dali was no longer effected, curing the high frequency roll off and the sub operates as if the remainder of the system is non existent (electrically).

The buffer I mention is available from Trans Audio Design, purchase one direct from Tom and enjoy. Option two (if still in stock) is the single ended buffer from Musical Fidelity which must be a similar design since it's specs are also 470K. Upscale Audio had these last I spoke to them.

How do you have them dialed in.

Using the buffer mentioned above, I have a 35 foot XLR run from the buffer (powered from XRL out on my preamp) and the twin subs run in stereo and set for 30HZ and 24 DB per octave with zero phase shift. Gain is by ear to match the VTL amps and woofers on the subs are precisely in line with Dali woofers as recommended by JL Audio engineer. Right channel is actually 1 DB more gain due to ceiling height.

In the past, not with my current speakers I tried numerous subs and would enjoy listening to several songs but then found it not so on others, I tried and tried. I had several individuals assist but in the end sold them.

I can believe that. It's the same experience I had until this time and even then it required a couple of months of work to integrate.

If you want an JL to work with your system, I would get advice about room placement, put in the two subs (true stereo) and dial them to below the lowest frequency of your main speakers. Even then, it may require the on board active EQ (and provided microphone) and lots of time and patience.

Also, the "target" moves for several months, confusing results. The JL Audio subs absolutely have a break in period, which requires patience and readjustment to get back on target.

albertporter

Owner
System edited: Corrected component list, updated description and replaced one image.

albertporter

Owner
System edited: Corrected system text.

albertporter

Owner
Alan,

I'm now authorized to sell NVS, but have not run ads to that effect. So yes, I have them for sale.

I do not represent the Talea II tonearm, Scott is the man for that in this area.

The NVS is quiet, beautiful to look at and has superb midrange.

I like lots of impact and bass power and those are stronger on the MK3, at least in my set up. Scott is supposed to come and look everything over to see if I have the Talea 100%, so perhaps things will tilt the other way after that.

In the meantime I'm playing with the new Micro Seiki MAX 282 that (our mutual friend) Daniel rewired for me. It's a great arm, no wonder it's still popular after all these years.

albertporter

Owner
System edited: Added image of Wave Kinetics NVS + Talea II in my system. Previous image was small halo model, this is the new one that I'm playing now.

albertporter

Owner
System edited: Edited text and added image of twin Audio Desk LP cleaning machines

albertporter

Owner
System edited: Thanks to Norm for sharing the new Audiogon link to edit Virtual Systems. Added new image of Micro Seiki MAX 282 tone arm on MK3. Added image of Studer A810 (unknown how it got deleted) Added Purist 25th Anniversary Speaker cables Added Purist 25th Anniversary AC cables (crossover) Added second Vibraplane (for Studer A810) what an upgrade !

albertporter

Owner
Saw the Shroeder at one of the shows, RMAF I think. No information other than I think it uses magnets to provide "linear" tracking.

I don't know what I think about that.

albertporter

Owner
Thank you Dev !

I still have that photo of the food layout at one of your meetings, amazing.

Are you using the Talea arm I saw in one of the images you sent me?

I also noticed a DaVinci tonearm which I think is absolutely beautiful.

albertporter

Owner
Thank you Peter !

albertporter

Owner
Unable to edit my system due to changes at Audiogon.

Here is link to large image of my new Rosewood plinth for MK3. Shown with Stainless Steel mat, Micro Seiki MAX 282 and SME 312S, both with Air Tight Supreme cartridges.

Test between the two arms begins next week after more listening to Wave Kinetics NVS.

Rosewood MK3

albertporter

Owner
I haven't read a awe factor yet in any of your posting suggesting the NVS surpases your SP10 MK3 at anything as Mike has conveyed with his own SP10 MK3 including "Kondo The Beat" and on and selling them off.

Everyone has different preferences, as different as their systems as seen here at Audiogon. What is good for one person may not be for another. I'm sure many people would hear my system and love it and others would think it very flawed.

Such is the case with high end audio.

As you know I'm looking at buying a DD table and just not yet sure what so your thoughts are greatly appreciated.

Even if I suggest a favorite it may be of no value to you. I will try to be honest but in the end it's all opinion.

I currently own a TW Black Knight and Micro Seiki 5000 which are marvelous pces and a DD table would be a nice ad to the mix.

I know both tables, both are considered high end with many members here at Audiogon, yet they sound very different. A perfect example of how complicated this all is.

albertporter

Owner
Dev,

I have just begun listening, I need to take some time to gather my thoughts.

albertporter

Owner
You have one of those NVS platforms right, when do you plan on placing it on top as suggested so you can evaluate the comparison.

I have the platform under the NVS now. I had to get help, the Vibraplane is 160 pounds and I wanted to move the NVS with tonearm intact which means two people for safety.

albertporter

Owner
Hi Albert,

When you say the NVS is very quiet, is it quieter than any other table you have heard and/or compared?

NVS is quieter than some tables I've owned, not quieter than the MK3 but perhaps better than the Basis Debut Gold and Walker on that factor alone.

When you mention "Superb midrange" does it compete or surpass other tables which are your preference is to date?

The midrange is it's strong suit, it does that well.

Not having bass push, that alone has a impact on the over all sound.

Agreed.

Od that you have been told they feel it will perform better on their own platform, it is a non suspended table correct?

The NVS is a non suspended table, that is correct.

What is so special about the NVS platform design wise compared to your Vibraplane. What's the design philosophy.

I can't answer that question, there is no way for me to see inside the platform. It has a feel about it like an elastomer or perhaps damper filled springs of some sort.

Of course that's what most turntables use but built within the main frame. Perhaps this idea of moving the suspension mechanism to a platform below the table has an advantage.

J Tinn or someone that knows more about that would have to contribute on that topic.

albertporter

Owner
Peter,

I never had the SME mounted on the NVS.

I had both SME 312S and Talea II on my MK3 and the two arms perform very different. Some people will prefer one and some the other. My reference cartridge remains as always, the Air Tight Supreme, It's the best cartridge I've ever heard.

The NVS is very quiet and has superb midrange. So far it does not have the bass push the MK3 has but I'm told it should be on it's own platform rather than Vibraplane that the MK3 and Studer prefer.

albertporter

Owner
Thank you Sam. Actually I'm still suffering a bit of residual effect, a sensitive enough stomach where spicy food is off the list. Not serious, just a minor annoyance that hits all humans from time to time.

THE Show received images a few days ago. Since they had already been Photoshop processed maybe they will post soon.

My wish is you and Sonny will travel this way soon, I would love for all of us to be able to listen together again.

albertporter

Owner
Lapierre,

I heard the Dali demo briefly but did not spend enough time in their room to have a valid opinion about sound.

albertporter

Owner
ny info on if/when/how your CES pics will be disseminated?
THE Show images should go up at their website.

I did not cover Venetian, high end CES show.

albertporter

Owner
Hello Peter,

I don't know yet if I will mount the SME on the Wave or not.

The word is the NVS and Talea II are a match made in heaven so I want to follow that lead and determine for myself before the next step.

If I prefer the NVS over the MK3 then yes, the SME will absolutely be moved over. As for difference between the two arms, Fred Crowder (Dagogo) and I listen at length to the two and concluded the same as others in my group.

The SME goes deeper in the (very) low bass, is more controlled and less exciting sounding. The Talea has a brilliance about it that can be intoxicating on well recorded LPs. That same brilliance (not brightness) can work against the arm on LPs that have peaks, less than perfect tonal balance or have vocal or musical instruments with extra processing.

A perfect example is Gil Scott-Heron, "I'm New Here." The bass, regardless if arrived at digitally or naturally is stunning at times. The SME flies through these and literally shutters my whole house. The shutter I describe is so low it sounds like a large truck hit a bump the next street over and I "felt" it rather than heard it.

OK, maybe not the most important part of the musical spectrum, but the Studer pulls this off all the time and it's nice when the turntable does too.

As for voice, the same LP (I could name two dozen more) has Gil Scotts voice processed. I don't know if it's an Aphex Exciter, Auto-Tune or something else but it pushes the tonal balance hard in the highs. The speakers have no problem and I have almost limitless power so provided the cartridge hangs in there and the arm controls it, you hear what the engineer intended and smile at the processed sound, accepting it as part of the presentation.

I hope that makes sense, both are excellent arms and have slightly different strengths. I suspect much of the difference is Magnesium versus wood and unipivot versus closed bearing design plus the tonearm cables.

If I had only well recorded classical LPs and audiophile pressings the Talea would probable be the overall winner.

Finally, have you received the two steel ballast plates for your Vibraplanes?

I have a good quote now, including powder coat and will likely give the go ahead. I returned from CES with a very bad stomach bug that flattened me out for nearly four days.

Lifting the two finished ballasts at a time when I already have this table swapping agenda going on caused me to delay on that. I will follow through and look forward to the upgrade that you and others have led with.

albertporter

Owner
Hello Dev,

The photo of the NVS on it's platform is on my dining room table, not in the system. It is not set up but I plan to do so this weekend.

The end goal is to make a good, solid judgement. Many people plug in new gear with real no basis of comparison.

I have been listening to the Talea II tonearm with Air Tight Supreme for many weeks now. I can literally hear the difference between it and the SME 312S and Audiocraft AC4400 in my head.

When I move the Talea II over to the NVS from Technics MK3, I will be listening to (and for) the difference the NVS makes. Not just the variables of starting everything up fresh and cold.

This takes a lot of discipline, the fun thing would be throw it all together and listen. Many people do this and maybe some can actually determine what's contributing to end sound with three or four variables. I cannot.

Further, the NVS will sit on the Vibraplane, in place of my MK3, so everything is precisely the same, then I will listen for whatever period of time necessary to "hear" what the NVS brings to the mix.

Was it set-up at the CES, if so with what arm/cart combo and system.
The NVS was not at CES, at least not that I saw. The room with Evolution Acoustics speakers are where I expected to see it but instead source was digital plus a big Ampex ATR tape machine.

I've heard the table is more than a dozen units back ordered and that is why no show. I don't know if that's a fact or show rumor.

Both THE Show and CES had good sound (for a show) and lots of interesting things to see. I was surprised that attendance at THE Show seemed to be about the same crowd size as the high end exhibits at the Venetian.

albertporter

Owner
Mary,

Congratulations on the New Year family addition. I can tell you are excited about Damon. Send me some images off line when you have time.

Are you still a rep for the same pharmaceutical company? Are you having to travel much?

The system has changed so much since your last visit I don't think you will believe your ears. It's amazing we manage to keep pulling the rabbit out of the hat with many, many tiny improvements that ultimately add up into a huge improvement.

I have several changes coming this week, among them the NVS table and Talea will go on the Vibraplane and into the hot spot so I can determine how good that combo really is.

There are enough hours now on the Talea II and (newer) Air Tight Supreme to have a firm grip on what it offers against my reference. I continue to be amazed by this Incredible cartridge and should credit the Talea II as very fine arm.

albertporter

Owner
I'm leaving to do coverage of THE Show for Richard Beers.

Also attending CES for myself and possible show report. Slow or no posting until I return.

albertporter

Owner
Jason, Yes the JL Audio sub woofers are for music, I no longer have a HT setup, just play stereo with DVD or Blue Ray movies.

The integration was difficult, I wound up setting crossover at 30 HZ and 24 DB per octave so JL are below the Dali rather than on top of them. The Megaline is good to about 30 -35 HZ and with the sub set this low all one needs is volume matching at zero phase and time align to main speakers.

albertporter

Owner
Lapierre, thanks for TAS website info link. The speaker looks great, I should hear it at CES.

albertporter

Owner
Lapierre,

I did not know about the new drivers in Epicon, if Dali designed new drivers I'm sure they are excellent.

Have you heard them or is there a write up on the change?

albertporter

Owner
Good and valid points about the Minus K, provided price is affordable.

You may already know, one of Sounds Of Silence customers is operating a dozen Vibraplanes off a single pump.

So other than the hose, not much in the way of hassle, or perhaps I'm just so happy (even currently without the ballast) that I'm not seeing this in the same light.

I will look into Minus K but it will be after CES, unless they are there with a display.

albertporter

Owner
Peter,

Too much to deal with to offer to anyone. Certainly I am willing to pass along all the information to anyone wanting to purchase for themselves. As you say, shipping would be an issue.

I have not heard the Minus K in my system, so it's unknown other than claims I read where it's performance is rated equal or above the Vibraplane.

I looked at Minus K website, I don't know if discount is available but it's several thousand dollars for a single stand capable of supporting my turntable.

Have you compared the two?

albertporter

Owner
Visited the shop, the workmanship looks fine.

Another shop in this same industrial complex does sandblasting and powder coat. Steel shop foreman offered to transfer the steel after cutting so I can get the sandblasting and semi gloss powder coat in one stop.

Quote comes tomorrow.

albertporter

Owner
Peter,

That's good news, big improvement for small price. Better still, I found a top flight shop here in Dallas that can make 20 X 24 X 1 common steel plate cut precision for $135.00 each.

I'm going today to look at his work and be sure the cut is smooth enough since the price is almost too good to be true. If I'm satisfied I'll cut a check and pick the two plates up after CES.

albertporter

Owner
Peter,

Images received, very nice job. I may have to wait until after CES to search but will seek local shops for 1" water jet cut, common steel plate.

I am usually slow to comment on changes, especially if I've had only limited listening, but tonight I got a change so big I have to brag.

The Vibraplane under the Studer A810 was a small miracle. Everything got quieter, more refined and with less smear by way of lower distortion.

We played several tapes, music that we are all familiar with. Listening as often as we do it's easy to get jaded but I shook everyone up with this upgrade. I don't know if this result would occur in every room and every system but it's VITAL now to my listening.

It may even be a big an improvement as the Vibraplane was under my turntable.

albertporter

Owner
Peter,

That price of $275.00 was for one piece? I may have to back off the stainless steel material for this project, I suspect that's a great deal of the cost.

I assumed stainless would be less resonant and provide another 1" of non magnetic material between the Vibraplane and turntable. Could be that does not matter.

albertporter

Owner
Sam,

Yes, A810. I was communicating with a friend about sourcing an A820 and had that on my mind.

albertporter

Owner
John Semrad (audio group member) and I just installed a second Vibraplane under the Studer A820.

I think the improvement will be as important as placement under tube preamp or CD transport. Tomorrow night we'll find out when our group gets together to listen.

On the same subject, Sounds of Silence says mass loading my two vibraplanes would improve both dynamics and deep bass performance.

Lowest local quote is $1400.00 for 2 water jet cut stainless steel sheets, 20 X 24 X 1". This size works out to about 125 pounds each.

Anyone that knows of a better price or another, more affordable option please provide input.

albertporter

Owner
Thanks Alan, agreed.

albertporter

Owner
Alan,

Lots of comments and questions. I'll quote you each time and answer best I can to avoid confusion and multiple posts on this topic.

Did you get a chance to listen with the MIcro Seiki before you rewired the tonearm with the Ikeda silver litz?

No, I purchased from Daniel and had the rewire done prior to shipping.

BTW, any reason that you did not give a try with the A90 and Talea ll tonearm?

The A90 had already been sold, long before the arrival of my Talea. I don't think the Talea would have changed my mind, Ortofon is just too far off my preference.

Eventhough your are not an Ortofon dealer, the tribe seems to like this match...are you now a Durant Talea dealer?

No, I'm not a dealer for Talea, and will not be. They have representation in Texas. A very qualified guy that I'm told, knows as much about the arm and proper setup as Joel himself.

I heard the combo at Mike Lavigne's place, but for some reason it did not seem to be a good fit

I was not there, so I can't say. It's possible you don't like the arm, the cartridge or perhaps that specific combination.

Rockport...as you know, the air-bearing tonearms can be a little delicate when tracking the inner groves. It is important that the setup is completed carefully in regards getting the platter extremely level.

I experienced the same with the Walker Black Diamond Proscenium but learned what was necessary to get it adjusted correctly. Much of the credit goes to Lloyd Walker who tweaked mine, showing me what I missed.

Olympos SL is delicious and I have come to the conclusion that the properties of the FR-1 MK3 make it a really great fit. I know a couple of other System lll's that are in favor of the stonebody Koetsu cartridges...like your Coralstone cartridge; are you still a dealer for Koetsu?

I respect the Olympos, have not heard the FR-1 and likely never will. Most people have not heard the Coralstone properly, it's a very fine cartridge. Koetsu distribution changed last year, I have a few pieces but I am not a dealer.

No dealer disclosure for Fidelity Research tonearms or cartridges, Lyra, Rockport, Myiabi, or Koetsu. However, I am involved with a small dealership that handles Ortofon cartridges.

Even if you did sell a product it does not automatically mean your opinion is biased.

I'm ever vigilant for product that might make my system better. I try very hard to not be biased and why it takes me forever to post comments about listening tests.

As for dealer product, I have Purist Audio products, Air Tight and Allnic Audio. I can get Phase Tek but have no stock.

I am not a dealer for Vibraplane, Dali, VTL, Koetsu, SME, Trans Audio Design, Sound Anchor, JL Audio, Ayre, Talea, Mach2Music, Audioquest, TTM, Sutherland, Studer and other things that I currently run in my system. I like all of the products I mentioned and sometime post comments about them.

albertporter

Owner
Alan,

Daniel was great to deal with, I purchased his Uni Protractor many months ago and now the Micro Seiki. He did the Ikeda silver rewire of arm tube. It should be far superior to original, aged copper.

I'm looking forward to listening to it, too many things on my plate right now with so many new arms and two turntables.

What cartridge did you choose for the Rockport? I found the image here at Audiogon but not large enough to make out the cartridge.

albertporter

Owner
System edited: Added text and image, for Micro Seiki Max 282AU tonearm just received.

albertporter

Owner
Happy New Year to you too, Alan !

The A90 was shown with the Talea II in photos of my owner book. Perhaps it was the reference cartridge, or at least one of the cartridges used for testing.

Just to clarify, I did not listen to the A90 with the Talea, but rather several other arms that I (and fellow audio members) had on hand.

I'm told the Talea is good with many types of cartridges. I cannot support that claim as I've only tried it with the Air Tight, but I can verify that's a great combination.

Another Audiogon member and I have been swapping email and he seems delighted with the Durand combined with a Benz LPS. That combination is likely more the sound I'm getting with the Air Tight than the A90 would provide (for whatever that's worth).

I have a Micro Seiki MAX 282 coming from a friend of yours, he rewired it with Ikeda silver and I expect it will sound very good.

The two tables I currently own have space for four tonearms, so I'm sure several high quality arms can be put to good use.

albertporter

Owner
Maybe a Telos is the answer, I need to hear the Talea II first. It's sounding very good on the MK3.

and Albert, i think it's about time to get you back up here to the Northwest again. let's figure something out about that. i think all of us up here would sure enjoy it.

Now that our son has graduated, the only trip I have planned is CES.

Beyond that and my search for a new car I should be able to do that Northwest trip.

albertporter

Owner
Hopefully it is painfully obvious that Mike and I are friends and we are teasing each other.

His smiley face comment about pistols and A90, required me to write that last line in my post above.

We must tease part of the time, this is supposed to be fun and making the music better...

albertporter

Owner
Mike

the dart pre and amp in my room are particularly synergistic, even their cable interface is propriatary, and my very adjustable speakers are dialed fully into the dart gear. the dart pre is also dialed into my A90 cartridge. everything is complimentary to the very neutral darts. you could even make the case that my room development has brought out the best in the darts in terms of specific treatment.

In many ways every system has been biased to the room and preferences of the system owner. I certainly have changed my Dali Megaline sound drastically different since I first set them up.

Every system and speaker has strengths, I hear good things in a dozen high end speakers but most of my tweaking is to make the system friendly to all sources of music. My system is warmer than many audiophiles like and by comparison the highs are not as bright as some like.

the Experience Music gear had to accomodate this environment. and it does have a bit more 'character' than the dart gear. in my system that turns out to be a bit restrictive to the flow as i have things set up.

I have not heard the Experience Music piece but suspect it leans more the direction of Aesthetix Io, Allnic and Ypsilon. Tube brands I mentioned earlier as favorites. No doubt some solid state equipment do things better than tubes and the opposite is true as well. It's harder for me to set aside my analytical listening side with solid state than with tubes but that's a personal thing.

oh and btw Albert.....it's pistols at dawn for your A90 comments. I’m not sure how I’ll ever recover from it. :)

Truly; there is no one correct cartridge for everyone. Just like there are many different valid system preferences. Can i argue why i like the A90 and why i think it's 'the best'? You bet i can. But so can others justify their perspectives too.

There you go, you crazy gun toting Seattle guys threatening us poor defenseless Texas audiophiles.

albertporter

Owner
Jazdoc,

Albert, you have an open invitation when you find yourself in the Seattle area. Mike works nearby, so we often tag team the evening at both houses.

If I'm invited back to Mikes I hope to listen to both systems.

Glad to hear that you are enjoying the Talea. After ~50 hours, the cable starts approaching 'steady state' and the MintLP will definitely help improve the sound.

Last night the arm and cable moved audibly (and positively) during the last hours of the music session. I believe both cartridge and tonearm wire are getting close to their maximum capability.

I believe set up can be improved, so far I only have the paper template provided with the arm. The Mint for Talea II should arrives soon, a vital tool and one I'm comfortable with.

I'll move the Talea - Air Tight to the NVS before I leave for CES. I just wanted to have a clear image in my head about the sound differences before introducing another variable.

albertporter

Owner
Jazdoc,

Mike's system is tweaked to the max, it would be difficult for anyone to walk in with a new piece of equipment and get a "win" first trip there. I have not visited Mike in a long time, would love to listen again now that he's evolved and improved so many things.

If I travel that way I can hear the Telos in his system, are you inviting me to hear it in your system as well? You appear to have as many records as Mike.

Have you compared the Talea II to Telos? My Talea II is sounding mighty fine, likely due to more hours on the tonearm wire and settling of the (new) cartridge.

albertporter

Owner
Dev,

Sorry to be drawn out, a lot to respond to and I'm trying to avoid multi page responses for sake of thread simplicity.

Design wise still appears to be very secretive,one would think if it is all this and that one would willing to share comparisons so to other DD tables.

In relation to the actual drive system do you know what it consists of.

Why is the platter not removable

What type of bearing design etc.

I don't concern myself much with why, only if the product works as promised, is reliable and provides the highest level of performance.

My Technics plinths were heavily discussed and accompanying photos provided so I could explain the design. My reward is now two manufacturers make a "absolute knockoff" of my design and sell here at Audiogon. The same thing happened to Steve Dobbins on several of his plinth designs.

Perhaps for that reason the NVS people refrain from disclosing more detail?

It cost a fortune to start up new like that only to have another company run away with all the details, copy it and use without compensation.

Jazdoc, did you get your Telos arm as of yet. I love the design of that phono stage, just wish I had more real estate space for all of those pces.

Albert even though you are a dealer for the Allnic this is a phono that Jazdoc is using should be on your list to try in comparison.

After reading your comment I immediately went to Jazdoc system page and viewed the phono.

A very interesting read, I would like to hear that phono, perhaps when some of the current projects are resolved I'll look for a way to audition.

albertporter

Owner
Dev,

I'm looking forward to your NVS thoughts now that you have gotten it back and hoping you will not have any further bearing or other issues and be as biased as possible putting it threw it passes without any outside politics influences. There's been allot of hype around this table, Mike saying it's superior to the many tables etc. and getting rid of such.

I have not heard the NVS just delivered to me, I posted about it's superior packing and letting it come up to room temperature and such.

I'm letting the motor run and being sure of the Talea II and new cartridge performance (and break in) before moving the combo over to the NVS.

The NVS is a very beautiful table and I do have a bit of prejudice in hoping it works since I currently only prefer the Technics MK3.

It does no good to be in love with the MK3, they are no longer made and when found used cost a fortune to purchase and rebuild.

If the NVS is even equal then I will be a very happy person. It's new, beautiful and (I assume) reliable. In any case I will listen carefully to it and Fred and others are welcome to come listen with us and vote.

The Talea II is a success on the MK3 and I know it and the NVS were used together for many trials so perhaps the pair will be even better than separate?

albertporter

Owner
Dev,

Hi Albert, Fcowder, Jazdoc, Merry Christmas & Happy New Year!

Thank you Dev, Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to you as well as the others mentioned.

I heard the A90 in a system first and liked what I heard and two things that stood out beiong the emotional connection and bass so I picked one up and enjoying, would have enjoyed to have been there to hear yours but as Fcowder replied said he heard one set-up and initual impression did not like it, something is odd.

Three of us that share listening sessions concluded the cartridge provided similar results. The other systems were very different than mine but perhaps all of us share a certain listening bias and prefer the same character. Our conclusion is just that, not any more reliable than other opinions expressed at Audiogon.

albertporter

Owner
Jazdoc,

I don't doubt what you were hearing.........the A90 misses from neutral, it tends to be a bit 'bleached'

I think bleached is another way of saying the same thing I said. Likely another arm, phono stage or other variable along with room acoustics and speakers the A90 could fit perfect with another set of ears.

It's just something to talk about so we have an idea what's important to each of us.

Not to flog this to death, but am I correct in assuming that the loading, etc. was optimized for your comparisons? I only ask because I have heard excellent bass with the A90 and it makes me wonder if this could have contributed to your impressions.

I tried just about every combination of load available on the Allnic phono, the same phono that many A90 lovers use for their reference.

The Allnic has a sound as do all phono stages and it's one of my favorites along with several others I feel are equal or better depending on what you judge by.

Certainly the Allnic is not a "threadbare" sounding phono, it's more like the Aesthetix Io or Ypsilon.

I owned the Aesthetix for a decade and had the Ypsilon here for testing, both of which I admire greatly and would be happy with.

If I changed my phono away from Allnic, the Ypsilon would be number one choice, it's a very fine piece.

albertporter

Owner
Note that I have owned many cartridges over the years from Vandenhuls to Koetsu's and find the Ortofon to be at the top of the heap at least with the Rockport in my system. In all fairness I did hear one of Albert's A90 setups and for whatever reason was not particularly happy with the sound.
Fcrowder

Appears the A90 did not work here for whatever reason. Perhaps my sample was not 100%? I tend to say nothing if I'm not impressed but since the A90 was a limited edition piece and (I believe) no longer available I felt safe in speaking my mind.

albertporter

Owner
Jazdoc,

Albert, I'll take the bait...I don't own an A90, so no dog in this (impending) fight. I have heard it in numerous systems, and while not my absolute favorite cartridge, I still consider it excellent. Is this simply a matter of taste or does it do something that truly bothers you?

The Ortofon A90 does not do anything "wrong" in the sense of distortion, mistrack or anything like that. It's just a soul less, bland, flat and uninvolving cartridge without much dynamic contrast and lacking low bass output.

In one test here it was on a $7000.00 German made tonearm and with half a dozen listeners in the room we alternated between that and a SME 312S fitted with a Shure V15Vxmr.

All but one person preferred the Shure and it's a $300.00 moving magnet design. Actually the sound of the two are in many ways similar, it would be interesting if others did the test and reported back. We did this test a year or two back and everyone involved sold off their Ortofon.

There was a couple of cartridges that were worse, the ZYX Omega and Universe.

These test does not conclude that you would agree, it's just my and my group finding and an honest response. Likely I (we) have different taste than what others might be looking for.

albertporter

Owner
Peter,

I'll answer in order of your post rather than quoting.

I have not tried the V12, would own it except it lacks azimuth adjustment we both discussed. I think azimuth is vital to setting up cartridge and although the lack of headshell (and no-break wire at that point) is superior, it damages the set up so badly it's not a good trade.

The counterbalance on the V12 is superior and easier to set than 312S. I don't know if you're aware, there is a retail dealer online that offers the 312S with V12 counterweight at no extra cost. I have seriously considered ordering from them to replace my own arm.

I agree with you about SME damping, it killed the arm and cartridge. I'm sure there is a cartridge somewhere that requires the SME damping system but I have not found it.

Your comment about SME (in general) is founded, they are a fine company. Their turntables are better than many audiophiles think, the only issue is they are belt drive (my prejudice) is that belt drive cannot equal the performance offered by the best direct drive systems. I assume NVS will fall into that category, I have not listened to mine enough to know yet.

Interesting comments about the VTA adjustment throwing off the azimuth, do you loosen the screws a lot or leave some tension? I have not had much problem with that but do inspect the cartridge after set up and also check track force which seems easy to shift.

I have not considered continuous wire for SME and wish the Talea did not feature that in it's design. To me this is like offering a top flight speaker with the speaker wire attached.

My favorite is DIN connector so manufacturer can supply what they know (think) is the ideal wire and then the customer can try other brands to satisfy their curiosity.

All wire makes a difference in high end audio and at the cartridge level it's super critical. Of all the tonearms I've had here (dozens) I've experimented with various tonearm cables and sometimes the differences are almost as large as the cartridges.

As for set up and aging eyes, I'm with you. I bought a super bright flashlight, a Surefire halogen. The output must be equal to several hundred watts of household light and very nice color temperature (not LED).

With that light and a good loupe I can get the setup as good as possible. Being able to really see it makes all the difference.

albertporter

Owner
Peter,

I have not heard the SME V, mine is the SME 312S which is a 12" magnesium arm with factory silver wire. The headshell is removable and can rotate, making accurate azimuth possible.

SME is complicated azimuth adjustment compared to Talea. But in all fairness, the Talea is probably the easiest tonearm ever made when it comes to this.

VTA on Talea requires loosening the fitting screw so the tower is free to move, sound is very different until tightened again so this is not a slam dunk like the Azimuth.

The SME has a threaded rod for VTA adjustment that works while the LP plays, but like the Talea must also be tightened afterward to hear full result.

At this point I have not yet tried any cartridge in the Talea other than the Air Tight Supreme. I've only had it a couple of weeks and work slow by many peoples test standards.

I know I'll alienate people with this next comment, but you mentioned it. I hate the Ortofon A90, probably the second worst moving coil cartridge I've ever owned. My conclusion is based on three samples in several arms both here and in other high end audio systems in my audio group.

As for tools, I have multiple protractors, some that came with arms, the CartAlign, Wally Tractor Universal, Uni-Protractor, Feikert and four or five Mint.

The Wally Universal and Mint agree on the 312S SME alignment, both are similarly easy to use. The Uni-Protractor has better sighting tools & magnifier but I'm not sure about targeting the center point of the tonearm. It's certainly the best at that of any protractor I've used but some arms are nearly impossible to judge.

I have a Mint coming for the Talea II. I have a Uni-Protractor and Mint that will work with my Micro Seiki Max and should have an opinion about them soon.

Not to sound like I'm skipping out on the question, but every tool I use forces me to look at my habits again. Each make you judge your setup in a different way and many times is a valuable learning experience.

Final comment on the SME.

They have been building tonearms since 1959, that's more than half a century. The modern SME 312S construction is incredible and the bearing are top class. If any small manufacturer today set out to design and build a SME 312S the cost would be four or five times what these can be bought for. That does not make it better or worse, just an opinion.

albertporter

Owner
Herzliche Weihnachtsgrüße! und alles Gute zum neuen Jahr! Eckart

albertporter

Owner
Mike,

Tonearm board design, material and even thickness should have an effect. The Talea being a unipivot with wood wand might indeed be a better off with the super rigid stainless steel.

In any case the NVS has stainless arm boards, so any benefit that provides will be credited to the pair.

I have a Mint protractor coming for the Talea and may order a template for the Uni-Protractor device I bought from Dertonearm.

I plan on going through the arm setup several more times to be sure I have it 100%.

albertporter

Owner
Mike
Albert,

nice picture of the NVS with the larger halo. i liked the look with small halo; i like it better with the larger one.

glad you finally have the NVS in house, and look forward to your impressions when you get around to it.

Happy Holiday's to you and your family as well as congrats to your son John on his graduation from Texas Tech! that is a big deal!

John is traveling home from Texas Tech today! I'm excited about sharing Christmas with both he and his girlfriend, Kensey.

Thanks for praise of the NVS shot. It was VERY cold when I unpacked it so I put a fan on it and let it sit for a couple of days until all the "mist" was gone. I don't know the circuit design but I've learned it's smarter to let everything settle in before hitting it with wall voltage.

The last few days I kept the motor running at 33, then at 45. Everything seems to be in perfect order, the new packing was superb. Looks like they went over the top to insure no more issues with rough handling.

I should have music from the NVS soon, maybe next week depending on Christmas and a bit more time on the Talea to insure I know it's sound before moving it off the MK3.

albertporter

Owner
Peter,

Air Tight Supreme is mounted on the Talea II. I bought it new for this test. The SME 312S already had an Air Tight Supreme mounted.

In every test I've done the last few years the SME came out the winner. This time it met it's match, the Talea II is a very good arm, I plan on keeping it from now on.

The two arms do not sound alike, neither does the Air Tight Supreme sound like a Lyra or Koetsu Coralstone but I like all three of those cartridges.

Short review is the SME goes deeper in the bass and is more controlled, perhaps more dynamic. The Talea is more vibrant in the midrange and high frequencies, does amazing imaging and runs a bit quieter in the groove.

I wish I could use the same tonearm cable on both to further eliminate that variable. The Talea has copper wire via Discovery cable. The SME is silver internal and DIN-RCA Purist 25th Anniversary 100% silver tonearm cable.

I know the two tonearm cables must sound different, but no way to evaluate since the Talea is an attached, continuous run design.

The Talea II is now on my favorites list. Better than Triplanar, Audiocraft AC4400 and other arms recently tested. Personal tasted could shift the order, each of these arms have strengths and weaknesses. The Triplanar has better leading edge than many other arms and the Audiocraft is magic in the midrange (like Talea) but has rolled off top end by comparison.

I still have a Micro Seiki Max 282 AU with Ikeda silver wire coming. I will compare it to both SME and Talea.

With NVS plus Technics MK3 I can use up to four tonearms, so testing could go on for a very long time. I'm never in a hurry, I enjoy the music rather than the test and try not get caught up in the excitement of something new.

I have more tools on the way to (hopefully) tighten up the set up on the Talea II. Also have another cartridge I want to purchase, hopefully I will find out at CES when and if it's available.

albertporter

Owner
System edited: Added image of new Wave Kinetic NVS with larger halo.

albertporter

Owner
Mary,

Bottom of this post has a link to the photo.

I don't know if you remember that night, Louis had Abby at his feet all evening, a beautiful chocolate lab.

Louis has a new baby girl and between that and work we have not seen much of him these last months. John Frech is active here at Audiogon, I miss him not being in Dallas. He was a valuable listener when we tested changes or new product.

I'm covering THE Show for Richard and will do images at CES for my own pleasure and maybe a brief show report at Positive Feedback. We are all here for the holidays, so come whenever your schedule permits.

Group with Mary

albertporter

Owner
Mary,

Being a Marine is tough enough. That and working while earning college degree is above and beyond.

Congratulations in advance on the arrival of Damon Justice. Maybe after the holidays and CES you can come listen with us. I think you would be surprised at how far I've pushed performance since you last listened with the group.

Maybe I should post that photo with you listening with us. Remember that posed shot when Louis brought Abby dog to be in the photo?

albertporter

Owner
Vicks7 quote:
have no vibration control platform under the Raven AC at the moment. I enquired as to the price of a Minus K but unfortunately if one considers the absurdly high import taxes in Brazil (approx 100%) I could not justify the expense. I will take a look at Vibraplane products although expect they are similarly priced to Minus K or perhaps even more. Did you find it produced very noticeable results?

Search locally for used, maybe even Ebay Brazil which would eliminate import tax and save on shipping as well.

Many labs, learning institutions, and hospitals use Vibraplane and when they sell off, prices are very low compared to new.

I thought the NVS was supplied with its own custom isolation platform?

The first NVS was tested on a Vibraplane since the platform was not ready at that time. Now I have both and will compare.

albertporter

Owner
Ho ho ho...

Merry Xmas, Albert -- Santa's arrived with a gift...BUT, you were supposed to open it no earlier than Xmas Eve!

Sam & Sonny

I'm expecting you and Sonny to come listen, so I must get some hours on the system in preparation.

Our son, John Porter graduated Saturday from Texas Tech. I am so proud of him ! We got home late Sunday night. I always forget how big Texas is until I try to drive across part of it.

Wish college was over so we could be near him, but he's staying to earn a masters in finance.

Come listen with us.

albertporter

Owner
Vicks7, thank you for the holiday well wishes !

It may be awhile before I have qualified impression of the NVS. I plan on mounting the Talea II on it but currently Talea is on my MK3 where I can compare against the SME 312S.

The tonearm wire inside the Talea and (the new) Air Tight Supreme have about 35 hours of real music in addition to tonearm burn in at the factory (thank you Joel Durand).

I can say the Talea is a very fine arm, you did not go wrong purchasing it. It has a personality just as all tonearms do but it's pretty darn neutral.

Are you using any vibration control under the Raven? I ask because I have become a convert to the advantages provided by Vibraplane active system.

albertporter

Owner
Received my NVS a few hours ago. There is a new wooden crate plus rigid foam, replacing the (previous) instrument case.

Great packing job, everything in good order.

Lid off the crate and first layer foam set aside

Second layer of foam removed, power supply and cables visible

albertporter

Owner
Thank you for the Christmas wishes Mary. What will your Grandson's name be?

albertporter

Owner
Typing correction, I purchased a Micro Seiki MAX 282 AU. Not a MAX 283. Typing skills on numerals were never as accurate as the letter keys :-).

Also Mary, I don't think the Kuzma 4Point will work on your LP12 due to spindle to pivot distance as well as it's heavy mass. Sorry I missed answering that.

albertporter

Owner
I would love to be able to listen to them. But that is almost impossible nowadays, at least in Europe for what I know. I do not think they stock any of these at all anymore. They just build on demand.

I think that's right, special order only but I have not tried to order them, still hanging with my VTL 750.

Just wondering if the design can be somewhat outdated or better said, if a newer design can yield a better performance for the price.

As I said before, I have not made the comparison but the design is not old enough to be ruled out, and I hear from people in the business that it is world class.

You mention they are Class A. Are you sure that is the case? Thought they were A/B.

I went back and looked, I got distracted by Class A as description in Audiogon blue book while I was searching for valid manufacturing dates. The pro reviews on line don't mention but I think A/B is correct.

albertporter

Owner

Merry Christmas Mary, good to hear from you. You have not shown up for music in a long time.

Regarding:
(1) I have a Nikon D40 & D60 with assorted lenses, and looking for a pocket camera to grab & go. Getting ready to be a first-time grandmother (my grandson will arrive on or before 12/31), and want to have something that will take videos and good pix on the fly. Do you feel the Sony would be a good contender for consideration?

With anything a person has to use for family pics, I strongly suggest you go to Wolf or Cooters Camera and do some hands on shopping. When I gave the Sony my strong recommendation it was from the standpoint of being a pro, someone who typically hates point and shoot cameras.

The Sony NEX-5N is a super nice camera, especially for people who have at least some understanding of the workings of photography. The Canon point and shoot cameras are probably more foolproof but they drive me crazy because they always override my decisions to "save" the shot.

Be careful with what sales people tell you, sometimes there are incentives on certain brands or they have lots of stock and need to move before moving to newer and/or better rated cameras.

Bottom line, try the cameras out and decide for yourself, the Sony images, even the "in-camera" processed JPEGs are extremely good. In some cases the RAW with Photoshop image rivals my Nikon Pro system.

The real benefit is, the entire Sony system weighs about what only one of my pro lenses weighs and the Sony does 1080 movies too.

Regarding the Kuzma, it will not fit the MK3, it has to go on the NVS when it arrives or not at all. Currently I have the Talea II mounted on the MK3 and I'm VERY impressed with it. Time will tell as the tonearm wire and (brand new) cartridge accumulate hours.

I also have a Micro Seiki MAX 283 ordered and another Purist 25th Anniversary DIN to RCA to connect to it. That arm with internal silver wire and Purist cable might surprise all of us. Come listen for yourself and vote :^).

albertporter

Owner
Eelii08,

I have not heard the 600 other than audio shows. No doubt the (smaller) Omicron is excellent and since it's a different design than the current direction at Omega, if you favor that sound the newer product may not be your cup of tea.

If I were going solid state the 250 pound Omega Mono Class A amps would be something I would look into. They were $24000.00 when released in 2001 and to my knowledge are still available today.

albertporter

Owner
System edited: Talea II with longer tonearm cable arrived on Saturday. Today I began running it in and adjusting. The new Air Tight Supreme fresh out of the box was installed, impressions will be posted as break in proceeds.

albertporter

Owner
System edited: Corrected text. Mat and damper are TTM brand.

albertporter

Owner
11-13-11: Maril555
Thank you Albert,
Any specific Canon and Nikon models?
Ilia

The 2010 Nikon D7000 is a monster but super quality and highly versatile. The newer D5100 is almost as flexible and less money.

I don't know where he lives, but most major cities have pro camera shops that rent. It might be worth the $50.00 ea (or whatever the rate is there) to grab a couple of popular models and test before investing in a system.

albertporter

Owner
Do you mean that for your 12 dedicated HIFI circuits you use 12x 20A circuit breakers plus 12 lengths of Romex cables connected to 12x 20A Porter Port outlets?

Yes, that is correct.

Total cost for this "over the top" wiring configuration is about what one audiophile power cable costs.

If you count up my analog and digital items, you will see some of these share a dedicated line to accommodate everything.

I was told many years ago by a respected person in the business that 12 gauge Romex sounds better than 10 gauge, provided the voltage-amperage transfer is not too great.

One more roll of wire and one more panel are cheap compared to most equipment in any of the systems here at Audiogon.

albertporter

Owner
Maril555,

A working pro such as a dentist is better off with an SLR.

The two top choices are Nikon and Canon. Both of those systems have specialty macro lenses with close focus and specialty lighting (ring lights) for shadow free medical photography.

The reason I was so excited about the Sony is it's price, size and light weight combined with excellent image quality. When I have an assignment to complete, I use my Nikon pro SLR. The Sony is a blast to have around, I have it on my computer desk and have used it a dozen times this last week. For many occasions it's all anyone could ask for.

albertporter

Owner
Hiho,

Mine had a separate power supply, it was natural color aluminum with grained finish, much like faceplates of stereo gear.

There were two computer or telephone type plugs, multi pin design that connected between power supply and two inputs on the rear of the table itself.

Maybe when I get mine I can capture some photos in the studio, it will look quite a bit different with the new larger halo and stainless mounting plates.

albertporter

Owner
You did not ask but I forgot to mention that the two 240v runs are terminated into Hubbell 30A, twist-lock females.

These cryo treated females are in wall (plastic boxes) on either side of where the Dali Megalines reside.

To operate 240V Euro gear, all that's needed is change the end on one of my AC power cords.

albertporter

Owner
I guess your Hi Fi dedicated electrical consumer unit is in parallel to your house electrical consumer unit.

I have three dedicated panels inside my home. Two are Square D commercial TORQUE mount 20 amp circuit breakers (not snap in), these feed the stereo and main part of the house.

My photo studio is in back with it's own panel. The panels are fed from one of the 150 amp masters in the adjoining utility room (8 foot run to stereo) by way of double zero copper cable.

What is the Amp value of the dedicated hifi unit? ( amp of main switch).

I have a rare set up, three phase commercial drop to a residence. The service drop and outside meter base 750 amp with a (no pass through) trans socket meter fed by triple, double zero service cable from the alley.

The AC systems run on three phase, the (non three phase) stove on 240v and the stereo on the higher leg of the 125 volt two phase service.

A second transformer is mine alone in the alley and supplies only three phase needs.

Each of my twelve dedicated Hi Fi circuits are 20 amp and each outlet is Porter Port, 20 amp.

albertporter

Owner
Bruce,

Shunyata power cables are very popular and have a following just as other major brands do. You will have to try a few and see what suits you. I will refrain from comparisons beyond that since I sell Purist.

As for premium in wall wiring, I recommend Cardas. It's higher purity copper, cryo treated and priced more reasonable than many other brands. I'm sure someone here at Audiogon can get it for you. See it HERE

If you must go for conditioned or filtered power the only way I would consider is an Equitech isolation transformer or similar. Many here have installed balanced power with superior results. I believe them even though I don't have it myself.

As for specialty outlets, I suggest you try a few and hear for yourself what each of them do.

I won't make this into an ad other than say that a few weeks ago a prominent reviewer at one of the most prestigious printed audio magazines choose Porter Ports (100%) for all his dedicated lines in a custom listening room quipped with an Equitech panel.

I'll return to my previous post and say again, THE most bang for the buck is dedicated lines, do that FIRST.

Even if you choose common copper Romex and Home Depot outlets you will get a benefit. Power supply in stereo systems are a big deal and dedicated lines help significantly.

albertporter

Owner
Bruce, now I understand.

The system has fourteen dedicated lines, two are 8 gauge 240 volt and twelve are 12 gauge 125 volt. All runs are to twin Square D commercial panels with copper buss bar using Romex brand copper.

AC outlet boxes are (non magnetic) plastic/nylon. The Romex is hung in open air by oversize nylon tie wraps normally used for AC duct.

Outlets are mine, Porter Ports. AC cords are listed above. Purist Audio, all 25th Anniversary except for a couple of Purist Limited.

I have no filters or surge protectors anywhere except for the built in filter on the Purist AC cables. I've had bad luck with every other kind of AC filter I've tried. Usually compression of dynamics and / or rolled high frequencies and in some cases distortion.

I cannot stress enough the value of dedicated lines. Anyone who can avail themselves of that upgrade should do so. It's one of the least expensive and most important things you can do for a nice system and if you own your home, it can increase the value.

Thanks for the super kind remarks about my system. The massive rebuild a few years ago really took it's toll on us. I thought they would never get the job completed.

As mentioned earlier in this thread, every surface in the room is over built and acoustically treated. The room passes for paint over sheetrock in photos, many visitors don't know, even when they are here in person until I show them where treatment is.

albertporter

Owner
Albert, did your write-up mention power conditioning accessories, e.g., dedicated lines, special dedicated power wiring (e.g., Transparent), sockets, conditioners and power cables. If I blinked and missed it . . . sorry.

This system thread here at Audiogon lists all my current choices, or are you asking about something else?

albertporter

Owner
Hiho,
I just got word, my Talea II is shipping early, so I won't have to wait until late December as I originally thought.

I can begin testing Talea II and SME on the MK3 and when the NVS arrives the same two should work with it.

The Kuzma 4Point is 212, not 218, but your point is well made. I too hope it works with the NVS, I'm fascinated by it's bearing design and heavy construction.

My system is absolutely flying, probably due to cool weather and low electrical use. (Big smile).

albertporter

Owner
Peter,

The best laid plans as the saying goes.

Although the Kuzma 4Point is an 11" arm, the spindle to mount is only 212mm (8.35 inches). The large VTA tower almost collides with the MK3 top plate at the only spot it will fit, and the headshell hangs over the front of the plinth.

The MK3 was designed to accommodate 10.5 inch arm, so I assumed with my oversize arm board everything would be perfect. I have room to spare with the (super) long SME 312S mount but not so much give and take on the shorter arms.

212 mm is a shorter mount than some 9" tonearms. With 4Point large VTA tower it will likely be a problem even for Garrard 301 and Thorens.

I'll have to see if Kuzma works with NVS. I think no issues with both Talea II and SME mount to MK3 and NVS new halo.

I'm disappointed, I had super high hope for the Kuzma after reading Fremer's review.

Please understand this is in NO way a knock against the Kuzma. It was designed to be compact and serve the Kuzma table, it was I that misjudged the measurements.

albertporter

Owner
Perhaps not an ideal place to share photo talk, but I am very excited about a new camera that just arrived. The new Sony NEX-5n with 18~55 zoom lens.

This is a tiny, lightweight package but delivers 16.1 MP (ISO 100 to 25,600) at 10 frames per second, plus 1080p 60p HD movies.

I shot a few tests outside in natural light (@ 200 ISO), next in my studio (@ 100 ISO) using pro strobes and last in our darkened living room (@ 3200 ISO).

In short, the NEX-5 out resolved my Nikon D2Xs exhibiting only a slight barrel distortion but exceeded in low noise at the higher ISO.

The Sony is not the full blown pro camera like the Nikon, but at $699.00 for body, lens and flash it's the most exciting thing I've run across in a point and shoot.

Anyone interested in a perfect condition Canon G11 :^) ?

Here is a review and images from my favorite camera site:

Sony NEX

Hope it helps someone who may be shopping for a family camera for the holidays.

albertporter

Owner
Radicalsteve,

That's good for you, with more hours the amp will improve quite a bit more.

You may have read in my system thread where I mention Classe with admiration. If I were going solid state I would be looking at it as an option.

albertporter

Owner
Stahl~Tek DAC and Transport are $72K total. The split is $35K for one and $37K the other.

albertporter

Owner
Dev,

I took my wife out for dinner and when we returned caller ID showed J. Tinn had called. He sounded bad, sick with a head cold? Probably from all the hard work and pressure of RMAF.

He said my NVS would be returned soon and thanked me for my patience. Most people don't even bother with that courtesy, I appreciated it.

They are working with a packing specialist, someone that will insure the protective material keeps the NVS from getting whacked in shipping when shipper slams the case around (which they all do).

I hope my new Kuzma arm comes this week. I have a second brand new Air Tight Supreme sitting here and am eager to listen to the pair, one in the SME 312S and the other in my Kuzma 4Point.

The MK3 will be the table for these tests which is a good thing, keeps variables to a minimum so when my NVS arrives this tonearm test will be at least partially concluded.

albertporter

Owner
Loydelee,

I have not had the opportunity to hear all those at one time and one place. However, covering as many high end shows as I do and auditioning digital products that members of my group own, I get a strong sense of what each brings to the table.

I have heard the Zanden digital and agree it's very musical, as is their phono stage. Pretty and easy to listen to. The problem for me is master tape sets my standard for resolution and imaging so I can only fall so far before I begin to be distracted by lack of detail.

The Stahl~Tek was (and is) the only digital I've heard that had extreme resolution yet allowed me to listen to the music. My experience was similar to your "musical" experience in that context. Realize too, this Stahl~Tek is the Opus version, their latest and best.

I think your assessment of the Scarlatti and it's ability to out resolve the Zanden is an accurate one. Agree too that the Stahl~Tek is "Scarlatti like" on that front but also believable resolution with a similar sense of acceptance I previously got only with vinyl playback.

In any case the Stahl~Tek is currently out of my reach financially so it remains a dream. Sincere thanks for the compliment about my system and changes.

albertporter

Owner
System edited: Added image and text for Kuzma 4Point tonearm. Should arrive this week! I can hardly wait to try this after reading Mike Fremer's review.

albertporter

Owner
Yesterday I received my 153 Wing C 6550 power tubes. This took much longer than expected since I wanted all high value, matched sextets.

I'll replace my current Wing C 6550 tubes this weekend even though they have moderate hours on them. I've always done this to keep my VTL performance consistent so listening comparisons are accurate.

albertporter

Owner
hope may be on the horizon: on the Audio Exotics forum they have great experience of the Stahl Tek, and the Neodio NR22 cd/sacd player apparently runs it v.close

I wish I could compare, hardly likely though.

The good news is the Neodio costs c. $15000. I've heard it in the UK, and it far surpasses my EMM Labs CDSA SE with X Upgrade.

That is very promising, thank you for sharing. I did not know about that.

albertporter

Owner
Micro
I could not find the exact price of the Stahl~Tek combo, and the information about it is very scarce. But as you guessed, the price of the Metronome combo is a lot more than what I can consider spending in a CD system.

This was the new Stahl~Tek Opus, I'm not sure how many have heard this version. Price is $72K, which means I cannot own it even with good discount.

The Orff CD was from the WERGO label? I have a few excellent recordings from this label.

Yes, exactly. I love Carl Orff and finding his work on any format can be a problem. I have several LP and CD of his music.

albertporter

Owner
So it does not surprise me that one who naturally takes to the sound of vinyl would be highly impressed by DCS (I was) or other sources with similar sound.

Not familiar with Stahl Tek but they appear to have some pretty hefty gear. I need to read up on it to see if they give any indication of what makes it tick.
Mapman

I cannot separate the system at THE Show Florida from the DCS itself. The "slight" brightness might be the DAC, the other electronics, the speakers or even the room. That being said the sound was so good I came back to the room over and over. Spent more time there than any other demo.

Yes, the Stahl~Tek is hefty, if you're referring to weight. I think the transport and DAC are almost 60 pounds each.

I'm told there is a new interface in the works that will allow I2s from a Apple Mini to drive the clock like the Stahl~Tek transport.

My understanding is the Mach2Music with battery supply would be required so there is enough room to install the new circuits within the Mac. They would go in place of stock Apple power supply, making an incredible package.

One could have the Stahl~Tek redbook transport, Stahl~Tek DAC and a modified high resolution Mach2Music server with high res downloads. Results would be top tier for digital format.

albertporter

Owner
The Cecilia Bartoli track, (3b) Preghiera: "Giusto Cielo, in tal periglio" (Anna, Coro) - Scena: "Ahi, padre!" (Anna, Erisso) captures her voice with all it's power and beauty. (1992).

The CD is on Decca, the one I used to push the player.

Listen to track 3 Listed as 3:27 but only a short clip.

albertporter

Owner
Sam

If you can, let us know more about your observations wrt Stahl~Tek. I'd be interested in your assessment -- if I couldn't be there -- that would be the next best thing :-)

Most important to me is tonal balance. This one gets very close to the character of both my analog sources, LP and tape.

Everything comes out super solid, very fast, very low distortion and other than the occasional CD with some (slight) high frequency sheen, it's very convincing.

The sound stage is as large as my vinyl rig, similar contrast with tight, dynamic bass and pinpoint imaging. The digital still does not possess the textures and shading of analog but it separates things in a way that is very satisfying.

Of course neither this excellent digital nor the LP can match the density of information of a master dub on the Studer. There is simply too much of an information gap with the other formats to pull this off.

Mind you it's not perfect digital, but if someone unfamiliar with my system walked in and the Stahl~Tek was playing while I had the arm tracking an LP, I would have no problem convincing them it was the record.

If you listen to the same material on both formats you can pick which is which, but this digital has so few problems I'm able to forget about it and enjoy the music on a wide variety of recordings.

We played a (1950s) LaVerne Baker, electronic from Felix Laband, "Dark Days Exit" then Radiohead,"Kid A".

A member brought a beautiful piano piece on the Harmonia Mundi label and another visitor had (the rare) Rachael Price CD, "The good Hours." I pulled out a Verve "Ella and Louis" followed by Leigh Nash, "Blue on Blue," Cecilia Bartoli, "Rossini Heroines" and a early release from Germany of Carl Off’s "Veni Creator Spiritus."

I kept searching for a music style or recording type that busted up the magic but it pretty well flew through it all. The Leigh Nash (a very pop recording) did not stay as sweet on top as I believe it would if LP. But other than that I could listen all night and be happy.

I've never been able to do that, ever.

albertporter

Owner
Micro,

You used my exact text at the close of you comment :^).

Is that because you too found the price more than you can afford? I have not heard the Kalista Metronome, unless perhaps at one of the audio shows I've attended.

albertporter

Owner
Sam,

Are you ready for a big shock?

The Stahl~Tek combo, transport plus DAC changed my mind about digital. It's so good I played back and forth between LP and CD and found something to like about each.

Sure, the LP was better but now it's so close that the difference between the digital mix and mastering was more the issue than the format.

Before anyone jumps in and says,

"That's what I've been saying all along, you never gave it a chance."

I've auditioned dozens of digital systems over the last 30 years and this is only the third time I was impressed.

First time was the previous model Stahl~Tek, second was the DCS stack in Florida at THE Show and then again last night with the (greatly) improved Stahl~Tek.

Unfortunately I will never own (any of) these. It's sad the evolution took 35 years and now financially out of reach.

albertporter

Owner
Thanks Albert.

AFAIK, the Walter is almost three times more expensive than the Kuzma, putting it in another class. This could explain a lot in terms of preference.

Can I ask if your friend system was tube or SS based? I have read that the Stabi XL can be hyper detailed, that can sound bright in some systems. Did you get this impression?

BTW, when will we see your pictures?
Microstrip (Threads | Answers | This Thread)

Yes, the Walker is far more expensive, the system was all tube, an Aesthetix preamp and phono plus Lamm amps. The Kuzma was not at all bright or hyper detailed, just lacked some of the weight and dimension the Walker had.

My photos will go up at the offical RMAF site, not Audiogon. Audiogon has an employee that covered the show as he has done at CES where more than one person was needed.

albertporter

Owner
Thank you Dave, it was good seeing you too. I wish the show was one day longer. I want to speak with everyone, have time for photos and time to listen.

Unfortunately everything will not fit in just 2.5 days.

albertporter

Owner
Albert,
Since you refer to have experience with the Kuzma air bearing arm, can I ask you opinion about the sound of the arm and the 4 motor Stabi XL4 turntable?
Microstrip (Threads | Answers | This Thread)

First let me say that my experience was at a friends home who has a very different system than mine. It's top quality but far more difficult for me to make evaluation.

We did the test over several months, the Kuzma arm was never tested on another table, only on the Kuzma Stabi XL, which I think was a two motor version (?).

At that time I preferred the Walker Black Diamond Proscenium, the two cartridges tried in each were the Koetsu Jade Platinum and Dynavector XV1T. I was impressed with the Kuzma design and finish except for the gold color (which I hated).

albertporter

Owner
Microstrip,

I'm at Denver Airport, on my way back from RMAF. I'll answer tonight or tomorrow when I'm home.

albertporter

Owner
Ken,

I get mixed reports, some say it's a miracle treatment for tubes others say it ruins the tube performance.

albertporter

Owner
Thank you Fred.

The new platter mat and oil damper are both old Japan technology, same era as the Micro Seiki Cu-180 mat. The brand is TTM and that's about all I know except there don't seem to be many of them around.

The drivers are NOS 1960s RCA mica 6350 and the input tubes are NOS matched section Mullard 12AT7. All came from my friend Andy at Vintage tube.

Hope you're going to RMAF.

albertporter

Owner
Ken,

Many people have been hurt by the negative economy, not just in the USA but worldwide. The news today spoke of European leaders getting together to work out a plan for their financial problems.

I wish I could afford to retire, our son's college graduation is in December but he will remain, working toward his masters. With the job market in the shape it's in, he's better continuing off while Patti and I still have our health.

His pretty (live in) girlfriend who will be his wife is very bright. Straight A grades and on the Deans list working toward a Mechanical Engineering Degree. I told him he should be nice to her, she will probably be offered employment before she graduates :-).

The NVS is beautiful and even though mine suffered ship damage, it made a good showing the short time I auditioned it.

Interesting you bought a Kuzma 4Point, I guess I knew about it for awhile but Mike Fremer's review was what drove me to purchase. I had positive experience with the Kuzma Air Line via a friend in my audio group. Very well made, solid engineered product at a fair price.

I have two Air Tight Supreme now, so eventually I can play both on whatever two arms are mounted on (either) MK3 or NVS.

albertporter

Owner
Fritz,

You had what looked like a very successful company, maybe good news is just around the corner.

When you ask about WMS and MK3, I assume you mean Wave Kinetics NVS. I heard it for a week or so but it must have gotten slammed in shipping as the bearing was very noisy.

I won't make a judgement about performance until it's returned and I have a fair shot at it.

The good news is the Kuzma 4Point will arrive well in advance of the Talea II. Since the 11" Kuzma can mount where a typical 9" arm fits, it can go on NVS and MK3.

When the Talea II arrives, it too fits both tables. So, even if I go with the standard NVS halo I still have two fine, high quality tonearms to audition.

albertporter

Owner
The Airline (IMHO) has a cam-actuated lever to lock/unlock the VTA column and a large knob on top of the column to raise/lower VTA. It is the EASIEST to adjust and most user-friendly mechanism in this regard.
Ckniker (System | Threads | Answers | This Thread)

My experience with the Kuzma Airline was like yours, very easy and predictable with no slop in the VTA knob. I thought it was among the best in that regard and sound was excellent.

albertporter

Owner
Peter,

I assume the same turntable, phono cartridge, phono step up stage and other variables were identical?

If yes, that's good news for me since I committed to the Talea II.

albertporter

Owner
Thanks for your response. I have not heard the SME 30 described as "beautiful" before. Just "built like a tank" and "purposeful", even "machine aesthetic". They all work for me. It's the sound that counts.

Have you seen the Kuzma four point? It too is "purposeful," perhaps more than beautiful. My beloved SME 312S is also rather plain when compared to the shiny competition. Perhaps I’m attracted to the engineering.

I will look up that Fremer review of the Kuzma.

Stereophile-Fremer Great review from the analog expert. One of his best, written only a few weeks ago.

If you recall, I talked to you about buying my PC-1 from your friend Alan. I love the cartridge and it is a great match for the SME V.

I had dinner with Alan last night, very bright fellow. Don't worry too much about the PC1 versus Supreme. They share many fine attributes, the PC1 is a wonderful cartridge.

albertporter

Owner
Peter.

I just realized I did not answer your question.

Yes, the Talea II, SME 312S and (now) Kuzma Four Point will be tested with at least the Air Tight Supreme (I have two now, one still sealed in the box) and Koetsu Coralstone.

albertporter

Owner
Peter,

I don't have the Talea II yet, hope to see it late November or early December. I did consider the 12" version but it's priced to high for me.

Listening to the new Durand would be nice but given show conditions I don't think it would resolve anything. If I fall totally in love with the Talea II I'll consider the Telos at that time.

I have not heard the SME 30/12, but I greatly respect SME, they have been producing tonearms for longer than most high end companies have even been in operation. The SME 312S is a phenomenal arm and priced very low compared to other high performance arms on the market. The SME 30 is beautiful but not something I have enough experience with to venture a guess on it's performance.

To add complexity to this issue, I just hung up the phone with Kuzma. I have the new Four Point Kuzma with silver wire on the way. Now the SME 312S will have two partners for my cartridges to compete with.

In case you have not read the review, Mike Fremer has all but declared the Kuzma Four point the best tonearm ever built. The new model I'm waiting on does away with the Cardas box and runs only single set wire to bullet plugs.

Looking forward to it's arrival, it will be here before the Talea.

albertporter

Owner
System edited: Removed Audiocraft AC4400 tonearm. Added Talea II tonearm.

albertporter

Owner


09-30-11: Mapman
Gotta say the guys in the music group photo resemble the crew of the Enterprise in the original Star Trek series as a glance with the gold, red and blue shirts!

Of course, Spock (blue shirt) would have the best ears for listening though I would not want to tune my system to a Vulcan's hearing necessarily.

Scotty (red shirt): "Captain I don't think the amps can take it!"

Kirk (gold shirt): "Audio? Just bring on the Orion slave girls....."

I would have never thought of that, I'm known for my bad puns and word play but missed the opportunity to draw in a Star Trek theme.

I'm not sure which blue shirt, the guy seated is international sales for IBM and Audiogon member (and long time friend).

Blue shirt standing is custom furniture builder and expert that hand constructs our Panzerholz plinths. Both these guys hearing is way beyond Spocks !

The red shirt is an art director, we do some projects together. He does Exxon Mobil special projects as well as their annual report.

The gold shirt is Derek, a computer guru with Southwestern Bell, he and his father have been attending for years, the only father-son duo equally obsessed with music that attend our sessions.

Now that you mention it, (gold shirt) Derek would enjoy the Orion slave girls, as long as his wife didn't find out.

albertporter

Owner
Microstrip, I assume the question is addressed to Ulf?

albertporter

Owner
Ulf,

Your description did not mention hardness or problems in the highs with either preamp. That's what I remember about the Omega mono and the reason I was attracted. I'm super sensitive to nasty highs and many solid state amps leave me cold in the region.

My system require four mono blocks just to operate, I might have figured out a way to try Omega if that were not the case.

Once in the price category of VTL 750, Wotans, Omega and similar product, the outlay for four test amps gets to be too much.

I'm looking for a speaker system that's equal or better than Megaline and at that time a premium stereo or pair of monos for trial becomes much more manageable.

When and if that happens, the Omega will be on that list of possibilities.

albertporter

Owner
Ulf,

That speaks volumes, I knew it was an important product the first time I heard it. Nothing survives for more than a decade without satisfying a lot of people.

How is it doing on high frequencies and midrange with your Wilsons, or have you swapped speakers?

albertporter

Owner
Dev quote:
I keep asking my wife how much longer, plan was that we would be working on our last home by now but due to uncontrolled circumstances, mainly the crappy economy over the last few years, high costs it just hasn't happened and the economy really isn't looking all that promising for the near future.

I agree about the economy, I have two repair projects that really need to be underway on our home, I keep putting them off because I refuse to go in debt and don't have the cash.

When we move the plan is to have a separate building...I would also have an enclosed glass walk way to it so I would not need to go out into the environment

I have been looking at my current space and I'm thinking of having the furnace, water tanks relocated by 12ft. This does involve allot but doing such I would then have a space of 21ft by 45ft with 9ft ceilings to work with.

You have done some serious thinking and planning, that's absolutely necessary for a great sound room. My room is just over 12 feet at peak but only 8.5 at the low point. Your 9 foot could be made to work well with good planning and perhaps ceiling treatment such as a detractor.

The floor space, the 21 X 45 sounds perfect to me. My room is about 18 feet wide, three more feet total is 1.5 feet additional left and right boundary for your speakers to breathe.

The 45 feet means super deep bass has ample room to unfold before hitting the back wall and creating cancellation.

That's pretty close to what I would build, given a blank sheet of paper and budget. I do agree about the 10 or 12 foot ceiling but I would not go more than 12, you begin to make boundaries so large only the largest (or line source) speakers can produce enough air to pressurize the space.

albertporter

Owner
Come on Sam, you know you can take time to drop in and listen.

If you're coming Art has to make an appearance.

albertporter

Owner
Art,

We have a lot of new gear to listen to. Since you were last here I've made at least five upgrades. Could take awhile for you to adjust to what I've done.

This new equipment should arrive on the 18th, just after lunch. If you want to start the long drive over to Dallas it might help you avoid afternoon traffic and get you acclimated to the changes as we set up and test.

Comparisons will be with master tape on the Studer, upgrades on my analog and new state of the art digital with high resolution files. This digital claim to fame is it will be good enough to challenge analog.

We shall see, that's not the first time I've ever heard that claim :-).

albertporter

Owner
Dev,
Regarding:
I'm concerned it just isn't a large enough space and that the trade off will be that my speakers will over load the room. Yes I'll be able to get them far off the back wall and side walls, only have my amps behind and between them and the rest of my gear far away and off to the side but with only 9ft ceilings by 21ft wide x 17ft compared to my approx 30ft x 35ft space with my various ceiling heights of 10 ft and over 20 ft. It would be allot of work to move everything to only go backwards or sideways, what do you think. I would have my speakers placed on the 17ft wall.

I'm no expert but that's a huge difference in room space and your MBL like to spread out acoustically due to driver design.

The one good thing is MBL 101 typically don't have bass loading like some speakers so maybe if you acoustically damp the walls like I did in my space (Dali are part dipole) you might not take too big a hit in performance.

albertporter

Owner
Art
Albert, you know Romeo cat likes to live in VAC houses, maybe he'd come see you if you had those 450's.....he'd surely be tired of my measly 300's and move East.... :-)

If you look at your call log you'll see I telephoned you after entering this discussion about VAC. I wanted to ask you about them but sitting in an airport it's no wonder you missed my call.

P.S. That new table is frigging incredible looking! What a beauty!

Assume you mean the new image I put up of the NVS?

I'll have it back sometime soon and better than ever. I'll make sure you know when that happens and invite you over for a listen. Maybe you'll be drawn back into spinning vinyl again.

Just think how amusing it will be, Napoleon cat sitting atop your new NVS, licking his paws :-).

You may as well know now, there will be a special get together at my place on the Tuesday immediately after RMAF. New gear coming here for test and fun. If you're going to be in town please mark your calendar.

I'm sending an email blast to "the group" tonight or tomorrow, you'll get an invite there as well.

albertporter

Owner
Dev,
Anyone can have a look through all of my past threads and you will not find once where I have ever settled and said this is it and been so enthusiastic over a specific amp, saying my search has ended and I'm finally off the merry-go-round. What I did do was continue to get pces and listen within my system which really assisted in my learning process.

These VAC amps just offer a complete package and then some that no other amps I have owned or heard or thought was possible in my system. This is no hype nor do I have any financial interest but still only my opinion.

That's a strong statement, especially considering you had VTL 750 and other great amps along the way. I always worry about the speakers personality requiring certain amps to balance everything out.

For some reason almost every other amp than the VTL 750 left the Dali Megaline too thin and lacking fullness and dynamics. Maybe it's the super long ribbon drivers, they are hyper accurate and very fast but also super revealing.

The warmth and fullness of the VTL plus their slam factor forces the Dali balance where I want them. I wonder if the VAC has equal warmth, power and slam? It's rated at lower power and has fewer output tubes.

Is it only in silver, or is black available?

albertporter

Owner
Dev (quotes),
I owned the Class-A Omegas and matching pre you speak of, very nice indeed. I had them for a few years driving the mid and top end towers units of my Infinti IRS V's

member ozy had the gryphon colleseums amps and mirage preamp and since replaced them with the same VAC pre and mono blocks that I have.

Dev, did you compare on same system or change to VAC after you went to the new speakers?

Other than the difficulty of obtaining Wing C 6550 tubes (my favorite) for the VTL 750 I'm totally in love with them. When I last spoke with Kevin, I think he had settled on KT88 Shuguang for output tubes. Is that what yours came with?

albertporter

Owner
Dev,

Your comment in relation to bass and control, well I can say without any hesitation if you ever have the opportunity to get Vac's 450 Statement mono blocks within your system you will be pleasently surprised and then some. Just make sure you have something to wipe up the drool and you are prepared to lay out the coin.

I had at my home a pair of Boulder 2050's, Karan 1200's, Bryston Squared 28's and lastly MBL 9011's. I would say all mentioned offer world class control and deep bass.

You made me go look these up, I've spoken with Kevin Hayes a number of times at high end audio shows. I like the way he handles himself and what he has to say about audio.

You listed a number of high quality amps in your listening sessions, have you compared VAC 450 to the VTL 750?

albertporter

Owner
Okay, so now all ya need is a pair (or two) of the Gryphon Colosseum Solos, which between them sport 96 output transistors (as compared with 64 for a pair of Omegas, or 80 for a pair of Antileons), and operate in pure Class-A

I did not see those on the web site until you called my attention to them. I've heard the Gryphon Antileon Signature Mono but not these.

albertporter

Owner
Zaikesman,

You're right, I assumed that model was gone due of all promo over the Delta. Great image and specs of Omega at their website:

http://www.classeaudio.com/omega/omega-mono.htm

The other one that had my interest is the Gryphon Antileon Signature Mono

http://www.gryphon-audio.dk/

No direct link, you mouse over product and the appropriate pull down menu.

One of the only times in more than twenty years of attending audio shows a room stopped me dead in my tracks when taking photos and the music came on. The Gryphon Antileon was the amp and I stood and spoke with the factory guys for at least half an hour.

At one point I mentioned Atma-Sphere and how I liked tubes and they basically said yes, that's the same sound we design for.

I must say they shocked me, it did have the same tube magic. That was a long time ago and that amp is not exactly something you can easily get your hands on.

albertporter

Owner
Microstrip,

Unhappily I never listened to the CA-M600 and it will not be easy to borrow one to listen.

There is a good possibility that they will be at RMAF or CES. I'll be at both shows. Then again, even if I heard one under show conditions it would be only as guess as to what part of the sound it was responsible for.

If I really believed it would beat my VTL amps I would buy them.

I (semi) seriously considered the Classe Omega Monos and spoke to Omega about them but decided on VTL being safer bet since I'm so comfortable with tubes and what they do for the sound.

Are you going to either show?

albertporter

Owner
Zaikes,
But the interesting thing to me, about what I'm doing, at least, is that I'm running a lot higher power than my speakers could ultimately handle or my room 'needs.' In other words, I can't actually call on most of that power -- the speakers would distort and the room would overload. And even if my speakers could reproduce and my room could handle rock-concert levels, with much program material that kind of volume wouldn't be musically correct

My experience exactly. Even though my Megaline is 90 DB efficient and I had plenty of power on hand with Air Tight ATM3, Wolcott and others, the VTL raced ahead in performance even at lower volume.

I attributed to lower distortion and reserve power but perhaps there are other things going on that are not so obvious as those thought to be responsible.

That this should pertain even with non-monster speakers like mine, with just a single 3" midrange and a pair of 6" woofers per side and not 'hard' to drive, remains somewhat amazing to me, since just one of my amps should have more than 'enough' power for them. But, hearing is believing, and (despite having owned and enjoyed sub-50w amps) I no longer simply assume that 100 or 200 quality watts gets the job done right.

I've experienced that on a number of occasions, exactly as you describe. Years ago when I ran a high end shop I always encouraged customer to buy as much power as they could afford. It's always made a difference and with the superior resolution of today's equipment it's more true than ever.

albertporter

Owner
Dev

A few years back I had a pair paired up with my Isis speakers, any time I tried SS it just wasn't the same.

There is no doubt the two camps (SS versus tube) produce very different results. That gap has closed a bit over the years with tube designs that control better and do deep bass, things that solid state do well. The one place where tubes seem to stay ahead is the ability to capture textures, shading and warmth that exists in real (live-acoustic) music.

Any news on return of your NVS table.

I've avoided inquiring as to status, I'm promised they will make it right so I'm just enjoying what I have until I can give it another try.

This upgrade I just applied to the MK3 moved it so much I'm still in a state of shock. I'm not much for raving about every little thing that comes along but this new mat and clamp made more improvement that some tests I've done swapping preamps or phono cartridges.

Maybe it's just a perfect storm, that all the pieces I put together "happened" to bring this about. In any case I'm grateful because this doesn't happen very often.

albertporter

Owner
Zaikes,

I recall that period ('02 being when I got my VTLs too), I actually cast my vote on this thread for you to get a second set of 750s when you were still attempting to pair your first set with your old Air Tights. (I think I expressed doubt that even a custom-made tube crossover could obviate the need for matching amps in the end.)

Yes, I remember that and you were right. Like all audiophiles I hoped to reach performance goals with simpler and less expensive solution to the problem. Of course that frequently fails, especially if you're honest when testing the outcome.

(I'm now running circa a couple thousand watts all told, with merely mid-sized, mid-priced, 6 Ohm/88dB speakers, the Mordaunt-Short Performance 6, in a medium-sized room. Might seem like needless overkill to some, but not if you've done the listening comps.)

I would not be surprised if more power produced even better sound. I sometime wonder what the limit is before it no longer matters.

albertporter

Owner
Micro, no I have not heard the M600 except maybe at one of the audio shows I covered.

The old Classe Omega did not sound like tubes but they did not sound like typical solid state either. They were (a true) 1KW, weighed 224 pounds per chassis and priced at 25K back in 2003. Imagine what that number would be now if still offered. It was a beast !

I have not compared the old versus new but friends and reviewers in the business rave about original (off print of course).

Have you heard the CA-M600 yourself?

albertporter

Owner
Yes, the figure I quoted takes into account the two sub woofer amps. The Dali are driven with 3KW of tubes and each sub has another 3KW.

The tube amps run surprisingly cool considering their power, I've been using one pair since 2002 when they were driving my Sound-Lab Ultimates. Other than tubes there have been zero problems. VTL makes a superb product at a fair price.

When I moved to the Dali which is more efficient, I was positive that I would sell my one pair of VTL 750 and go with four lower power but high quality amp like Cary, Manley, Air Tight, Atma-Sphere or similar.

After trying about a dozen amps on the Dali, no matter where I put the VTL 750s, that part of the speaker ran away from the other section on performance. It did not take long to figure out the requirement was going to be two pair of 750s.

So much for going smaller and easier. During that time I had several big name brand amps and none pushed my buttons like the 750. It's really a remarkable amp and reasonably priced considering what it would cost to replace in today's market.

Tubes are a factor and with four mono blocs it adds up. The problem is I can't stand the performance hit and give them up.

albertporter

Owner
When last we chatted offline, you mentioned (paraphrasing here) that you were not, in principle, uninterested in possibly hearing what SS from some of the top contenders might sound like in your system.

Zaikes, there are some solid state designs that tempt me, including some from the past. The most likely current contender is the new Ypsilon, plus older designs such as the 1KW Omega mono blocs from Canada and the big Gryphon from Denmark.

The Ypsilon is $120K, the Omega design I loved is no longer built. I don't know status of the Gryphon but all of these are in the crazy territory, price wise.

It's easy to resolve if your speakers are bi-amp as are my Dali. You can get scads of tube power into them without breaking the bank and still achieve the strengths that powerful solid state provides.

My system has a total of 9000 watts driving it. The speakers are 90 Db @ 1 watt. The big tube amp design provides almost flawless pure class A operation for the first few percentage points toward total output power.

That means I can get peaks of 110 Db and never operate beyond the "idle" point of what I have. That much reserve makes dynamics out of this world and very low distortion.

I guess if money were no object I could buy some of the super high end solid state stuff and do a bunch of comparisons.

albertporter

Owner
Sam, that sounds complicated.

By the way, last night was another breakthrough session. The new power cords are providing more dynamics and contrast than I ever thought possible and the new turntable mat and damper are out of this world.

Toward the end of the night one of my long term, experienced listeners commented that he had never heard a kick drum reproduced by a stereo system that sounded like real life, but that mine had just accomplished the impossible.

The LP spinning was one we've played many times, the system moved to a place I never thought could be reached and these new upgrades were what moved it.

albertporter

Owner
Yes, you told me and yet all I remembered was the friendly exchange of experience with various brands of tubes.

Steve McCormack is a great guy and long time friend. I'm pleased the DNA Platinum are doing it for you on the high frequencies, that's a difficult spot for most solid state to pull off.

albertporter

Owner
Zaikes gets the Kubrick award. Number 2001

Zaikesman, what's happening on the tube front? We had discussions about all things KT88 and 6550 for a long time. What was the outcome in your system?

albertporter

Owner
The table will be fine, Sonny has promised to fly in to help me set it up.

albertporter

Owner
Jfrech,

So Albert, sounds like your soon to be "screwed" on your new mat :)

T_bone, that's interesting and I don't doubt you for minute. I always liked my previous SME and now my Grandprix with how they slightly raise the record in the center (SME used a washer, Grand Prix sorbothane about the size of a washer). I guess it makes the clamping action more effective.

I'm impressed with this mat, credit goes to Audiogon member Ddriveman who I've been trading email with for some time. He likes direct drive tables and I sold him a spare Micro Seiki CU 180. He had an opportunity to hear the Micro against the TMM stainless at a dealer and preferred the TMM.

That sent me searching for one, it pleases me that T_bone knows about it as there is not a lot of data out there on it.

I will continue to listen to both Micro and TMM and hopefully come to some conclusion. I can say right now both mats are superb and increase performance significantly.

albertporter

Owner
The stabilizer had an optional 'sound adjustment attachment' which had a top plate which added about 350g to the 750g weight of the original stabilizer. It attached to the top of the original oil-damped stabilizer by means of a large thumb-screw-like screw. I did not know of it before receiving the materials you sent.

Pleased that the literature you translated was of some benefit to you, that was very kind of you to do that for me.

I will try adjusting the screws as you describe, the initial test with the TMM was very positive. It has a lot of the attributes of the Micro Seiki Cu 180 that's been my long time standard.

albertporter

Owner
T_bone,

Albert,
My oil-damped stabilizer came with a small piece which fits into the spindle hole to 'grip' different spindle sizes. It does not have any threaded-ness to it, though, the spindle-hole itself is threaded with a rather large-pitch thread. I don't have anything else or instructions to go with either of my TMM products.

The instructions will be email to you, please post here so we can share with everyone. The piece I'm describing appears to be another tuning thing but maybe it's the grip you describe.

It sticks up quite a bit above the damper and I detect screw threads in my damper but can't determine if they are for the missing piece.

Which way do you turn the screws on the stainless mat to get more/less bass? Do threading them in and out cause the mat to press (elevate) against the turntable platter or LP?

albertporter

Owner
Dev,

Hi Albert,
I see a pic now with your new NVS table placed upon your Vibraplane isolation, did you actually get the base as mentioned earlier and compare, if so what was your take.

Isolation wise the NVS works on the Vibraplane but unknown how it will do on it's own base.

What follows will explain to everyone, including those who have privately email me on this topic as to why I've been so quiet on this subject.

There are new larger Halos coming for the NVS, these will be able to accommodate long mount 12" tonearm base such as the SME 312s and V12.

This design change eliminates the need for a special tonearm board (as seen in my system photos). There is an option to order with either halo set (or own both) and the consumer can do the swap themselves.

Dev ask on 8-22-11 about NVS noise and I replied there was a soft noise coming from the turntable. As I accumulated hours this became much worse.

My NVS is now in California, being repaired from ship damage to what I expect is the main bearing. Hope it returns dead quiet, equipped with larger halo and the isolation base and I will return to testing.

albertporter

Owner
T_bone, I forgot to ask, did your oil damper come with a part that looks like a top entry threaded insert?

The instructions I have are in Japanese which I cannot read. The photo shows it but I can't figure out if that is part of a different damper or supposed to be included with the one I have.

albertporter

Owner
T_bone,

I think you'll find the TTM Monitor Mat is a tad over 300g :^)

Yes, my late night brain not working. 300g replaced with correct text of 3kg, a very heavy mat indeed and so far I'm impressed with it and the oil damper.

Can you explain how the screws work? I have done nothing in the way of experimentation and I have the silver stock screws at this point. Would appreciate data on the ones you choose.

albertporter

Owner
System edited: Corrected text on TTM mat.

albertporter

Owner
System edited: Added text and photos of my new TMM stainless steel turntable mat and TMM oil filled record damper.

albertporter

Owner
System edited: Edited, removed 1 item

albertporter

Owner
I'm beginning to think both responses are from Sam in order to get to me :^).

albertporter

Owner
John,

Hi Albert. Your system is sounding fantastic. Even more fantastic with the new Purist 25th Anniv wire and the NVS table. I wish I could have heard the wire alone, if you ever get your Technics spinning again, I'll try to come by.

You know you're welcome anytime, I wish you still worked in Dallas so you could join us more frequently. I'm honored you approve of the changes in my system, especially considering the quality of your rig. Last time I was there and we listened to Johnny Hartman I was impressed.

I was a little surprised on the arm board arrangement for the NVS. Given it's price and seemingly top tier status, not allowing room for SME 12' arm (which is a common arrangement) seems like a oversight.

My adaptor is probably not ideal, I wanted to listen to the exact arm, cartridge and wire as on my Technics. I agree the NVS should have been designed to accommodate SME, they have been in business making tonearms for half a century and lots of them in the world.

I'll be curious on your comments regarding the NVS vs Technics after you get some good quality time with the NVS.

The two are definitely apart in sound. I hear strengths in each but will reserve opinion until I'm sure the power supply of the NVS is fully run in and I've had a chance to hear with the specially designed isolation platform. We all know that isolation on any turntable is a major factor in sound.

Thanks again for the kind words!

albertporter

Owner
Albert...

Guess who this is? I heard you got a new record player! :)
Hmm... perhaps, I will be visiting you without Sammy!

Don't tease me that way, my heart can't take it.

albertporter

Owner
Mike, regarding
sorry if i was not more clear about what I’m using under the power supply of the NVS.

the power supply sits on the floor on the shag carpet. i'm using some small generic brass cones (tip-toes?) and then the Walker lead-filled pucks on top to ground it thru the carpet. i do have those large Walker cones but they are too big for the power supply.

The "real" Tip Toes were a McCormack (Mod Squad) product and made from aluminum but the pointy concept is the same.

With my NVS power supply I used the Stillpoints + Riser with ball point facing the bottom of the supply. It's easier to accommodate the small footprint and there's no balancing act as with points down.

I used three brass weights on top, some custom machined spacers to correct Sound-Lab chassis alignment from the old days. I could not find my box of Walker points and weights while everyone waited.

I've also considered the nice looking Adona stand that you and others at Audiogon have moved to. I spoke to them on the phone some time ago but must first decide between NVS Isolation base and Vibraplane and how many turntables there will be.

I have not tried the A10 U8 isolation footers but assume since they are from the same engineer it will be a good product.

albertporter

Owner
Zaiks
"Great, a cable company that's introduced to me by a guy who markets a double-secret magic digital alarm clock from Rat Shack. How good can that be?" ;^)

I had forgotten about that, I think at the time I met Jim the magic clock (or whatever it was called) was not yet "invented."

I admit I used the Tice Power Block and Titan way back when. During those days hardly anyone had dedicated lines and the large transformer actually helped sagging AC lines. Of course it added it's own flavor but figuring that out over time is pretty much what all of us do with new product.

I've posted on the "What's On Your Turntable" thread a few times, there are so many software titles listed there it's difficult to come up with anything original.

albertporter

Owner
Hey Zaikes, I miss seeing you at Audiogon.

It pleases me that the adaptors are working so well for you.

It's been 26 years since I first met Jim Aud, he was talking with George and Fran Tice of Tice audio in the middle of CES. George called me over and introduced us. My first thought was "Great, a cable company from Texas. How good can that be?"

Funny how things turn out. I began using Purist after that day due to a loaner cable and wound up with it everywhere. That was tough since I was working for a couple of big cable manufacturers doing their ad photography.

Anyway, I appreciate your gracious comments.

albertporter

Owner
Mike, Thanks for posting. I understand why you like the NVS so much. It's very promising.

I read with great interest about the isolation platform providing better bass. That's the one area where I have reservation about it's performance.

Interesting you are using the Walker footers, I should add those to my test list and see how they do against Stillpoints.

albertporter

Owner
Congratulations, Albert :-)

Vbr, Sam

Thank you Sam, I hope you and Sonny can come listen with me again sometime soon.

You are a lucky man, she is an absolute doll and a personality to match. I really enjoyed spending time with the two of you in California.

albertporter

Owner
Great sound tonight, I played the Wave NVS from 10:00 AM until 11:00 PM. Had other ears helping from 5:00 PM on.

This is an excellent table, among the best I've ever heard. I won't say more than that until I have another few weeks with it. One thing for sure, the power supply does respond to different AC cords and also footers.

I have not had time to try anything except Stillpoints under the power supply. The Stillpoints provided better separation and depth and slightly tighter bass. Also seemed to make background quieter but I think that was an illusion due to greater separation of instruments against the quiet.

Speaking of quiet, this table is ULTRA quiet. So quiet it prompted unsolicited comments from three of my listeners tonight, they were impressed.

I was not sure about the silver, I always buy black when available. This grew on me so quick in silver finish I'm glad I did not have the choice.

My understanding is the stainless steel arm board and isolation base improve things even more. I'm looking forward to experiencing those, hopefully in the near future.

albertporter

Owner
Dev

Yes for sure it would be, looking at Mike's pics the combo looks sharp together.

So is the base platform the only form of isolation then?
You can view my Wave images at top of this system thread. I may add the new image of Wave with both arms later tonight or tomorrow.

I really enjoy my Minus K platform I have under my TW BK table, having suspended floors this deals with such along with other air born vibrations.

I have no experience with Minus K but like you, the only time I have gotten absolute (100%) isolation is with the Vibraplane.

You can literally jump up and down on my pier and beam floor beside the Technics MK3 (and Wave Kinetics) with tonearm on LP, motor not turning and volume up !

That may sound like a radical test but floor vibrations with my dual JL Audio subs are easily this much mechanical energy and it's easier to separate with the music off as I describe.

Is the table dead quiet while running, say if you put your ear up close and if not how far away before it's not audible.

There is a "ticking" sound, very soft. Easier to hear with a stethoscope than bare ears. So far my tests indicate this is not audible in the speakers, even with very soft passages.

FWIW, the Walker could easily be heard, unless everything was absolutely perfect. The silk belt running on the brass pulley was audible (at least to me). Never could hear in the speakers.

More when I do additional listening.

albertporter

Owner
Fred, You are welcome to come tomorrow, it's a short, inexpensive flight.

Option two is we can listen together next time you visit your beautiful daughter. We can catch up via phone as we have for twenty years now :^).

Good to hear from you.

albertporter

Owner
Dev,

Yes, I paid for the base, it should arrive soon. Wave Kinetics are working on some minor cosmetic issues. Performance is supposed to be excellent and a dream come true would be it's as effective as the Vibraplane.

So far the Vibraplane is the most effective isolation I've ever used, even superior to the Walker air platform system which was excellent.

I like the look and operation of the NVS, I will continue listening and later today should have the Audiocraft AC4400 arm mounted in the second arm position. Initial measurements seem to indicate it will fit the existing platform without a special arm board.

albertporter

Owner
Lapierre,

The JL did not require more treatment but did require I bring them into the mix with Dali at extremely low frequency.

I wound up at 24 DB per octave at 30 HZ. The blend at that point is perfect, you cannot detect any separation between JL and Dali, they play as one.

I spoke to one of the engineers at JL Audio before my purchase, described my system and room and they were the one that suggested two Fathom 212 rather than Gotham or single Fathom 12.

Thank you for the compliment about improvement of my system. Oddly enough the one component that made the most improvement in the last couple of years is the pure silver Purist 25th Anniversary cables I've been adding.

I just ordered four of the new 8 gauge silver power cords for my VTL amps and expect to startle everyone in my group the minute that happens. They were mind bending on my preamp and phono.

albertporter

Owner
System edited: I received several email and a telephone call asking for image of the Wave Kinetics fitted with custom Panzerholz arm board (for SME 312S). It has been added to system images.

albertporter

Owner
Big changes. Do you have any special reason or advise to choose the SME 12" to go with the NVS?

I hope to read your opinions soon!
Microstrip

Micro, the 12" SME + Air Tight Supreme was pulled off my Technics MK3. The only fair way to judge the NVS is mount the same arm, cartridge, tonearm cable and isolation stand that's been my reference.

The (12") SME 312s is too long for the current Wave Kinetics mounting system. It took a few days to design and construct the Panzerholz board that accommodates both products without damaging either.

The serious testing will be next week with lots of ears on Tuesday night when the music group meets at my home.

albertporter

Owner
Lloydlee21,

I have not tried the Wave Kinetics A10-u8, it could be great.

My current favorite is the (new) Stillpoints SS Ultras. I have them under the Technics MK3 and all four VTL 750s.

albertporter

Owner
System edited: Added Wave Kinetics NVS turntable. Received a few weeks ago, hope to have custom arm board complete this weekend so 12" SME will mount.

albertporter

Owner
Micro,

To clarify, Sound-Lab ownership was approximately 13 years. The Dali will be about 8 years if I change.

21 years with only two speakers is pretty good, and yes I will keep the VTL 750.

albertporter

Owner
Micro,

Not even sure I will change, the Dali is going to be a tough act to follow.

Price is also a consideration. High end product these days have gotten incredibly expensive, I may fall in love with this (not yet complete) product only find it impossible to acquire.

albertporter

Owner
System edited: Added text and image for new 25th Anniversary AC cables.

albertporter

Owner
If your up to it Albert, I would be curious as well. Just trying to think of what speaker would be bigger than Art's new toys?!!

Something not yet available, a new product. I'm not sure of the final size but suspect it will be slightly shorter than Dali Megaline but much wider and heavier.

As an FYI, my comment about the competition was simply in good humor.

I like it light and funny, we need a bit of humor now and again.

albertporter

Owner
Okay Albert, you may take the crown on speaker size in the spring, but Napoleon cat will still be mine! :)

P.S. Drop me a note and let me know what you're looking at getting for speakers...we both just bought the same Mach2 setup, only mine will run into the Vitus versus your Ayre. Did you go battery powered?

You really know how to hurt a guy, throwing up Napoleon cat in the discussion.

No battery on the Mach2 Mac Mini. The DAC is indeed Ayre QB-9 which is nice for the low price it sells for. I'm using Pure Music at the moment but plan on trying the Amarra when I have time.

Currently unknown if one software is better, I do wish the sound was closer to analog. I'll likely have to pay a fortune for a DAC that gets close.

Which software are you using?

albertporter

Owner
Just curious Albert. Do you and Art S have a competition going to see who can get the biggest speakers in their home?!?!

Your comment made a big smile come across my face.

Art is a great guy, he has zero attitude or ego, only cares about getting his system right and loves music. That's the combination I look for in audio friends.

Art is a 3 hours drive (one way) if traffic is bad. For that reason we don't listen together as often as the guys in my regular group.

Not a competition but the first quarter of 2012 I hope to have new speakers, larger than Art's PNB and my current Megaline.

albertporter

Owner
System edited: Added my new digital pieces, added Technics plus Vibraplane image, removed Oppo BDP-95.

albertporter

Owner
Jason,

With the Dali Megaline my setting is 35 Hz @ 24 DB per octave. I've had it set much higher and as low as 30 Hz. Typically the lower and steeper the crossover setting, the better it integrates with the mains.

The F113 is likely a great choice, I have not heard one in my system but it's obviously from the same excellent design team.

My F212 mark the first time in the history of my system that I've found subs fast and adjustable enough to integrate.

albertporter

Owner
Peter,

I don't have the digital where I can listen. It's in my office with two other computers so I can edit.

I'm going at this pretty much full force, I plan on selling my CD player and Blue Ray and sticking with the Mac Mini for movies and music.

I know the pecking order will remain master tape #1, turntable #2 and music server #3.

I currently have 1735 albums loaded on my music server with many more to come. The beauty of the tiny Macintosh is just what it appears to be. A small, convenient way to store a lot of material, much of which is difficult to find or not available at all on LP.

I hope the DAC I've purchased makes me happy but if not there are lots of other choices. In the end I have no expectation other than make it listenable.

albertporter

Owner
Files were mixed at the time they were ripped it looks like to me.

For instance, an album with 10 songs might have the first 6 as FLAC, 7 through 9 as WAV and 10 as FLAC again.

No other versions visible or in the library. Fortunately, most of the albums are all FLAC.

If I catch it, no problem. If I drag a folder over with mix files that's when there's an issue.

albertporter

Owner
I've run into some strange issues, if a file contains FLAC and WAV and you drag it into Pure Music it acts like it's loading but does not.

If you do a lot of those mixed music files, it crashes. At least on my computer.

If you open every file and notice WAV and ask Pure Music to convert them, they are turned into Apple Lossless. Then they play fine even if mixed with Pure Music tagged FLAC.

Metadata seems to be OK if files are not mixed, but I've had albums loaded with FLAC and got proper tagging but WAV ignored.

I'm not planning on wireless but that could change. Is there an advantage other than the wireless part that I don't know about?

I dread editing metadata manually, would likely follow your advice and rip the CD again. I think it would be faster and less work and probably more accurate. I'm getting eager to move on to the music part of this project.

I now have about 1700 albums loaded, not all have the art work. Funny, some CDs spawn a question from Gracenotes asking permission to use my data.

albertporter

Owner
Mapman,

You responded a couple of days ago,
Albert.

Getting most of it right using reliable automated tools is not so bad once you setle there.

Best to start on a small scale to familiarize and work out the kinks, then expand from there.

Do you have software that resolves some of this? Is it PC or Mac?

albertporter

Owner
Mapman,

The Studer is pretty much fool proof with on board logic that controls tape handling and even speed winds and stops at "zero," a few inches from pulling the master off the reel.

It's fun to see it moving a light speed and then slow down and gently stop. A really amazing piece of Swiss engineering.

However, I agree about the cool factor of music server.

I just loaded a ton of old, fun music. Artists such as Bo Diddley, James Brown, Carl Perkins, Marvin Gaye, The Temptations, Bobby Darrin and Bob and Ray (comedy). This stuff will be a blast to pick covers off the iPad and enjoy with friends.

Finding those old cool tunes in good shape on LP would be a chore not to mention that kind of fun music was frequently not well taken care of in it's previous life.

albertporter

Owner
Mapman, exactly !

I'm hoping to pull the music server from the system only if a problem occurs or a new batch of CDs are ready to load and need backup.

I think the Mac music server with Ayre DAC will be significantly better than any player I've owned in the last few years.

My wish is the Mac + Ayre will allow me to just be able to enjoy a few tunes. I had one digital system here that got "sort of" close to analog but we're talking $55K plus to get there.

I've invested less than $6K in my Studer and nothing (available to us mortals) outside the recording business will touch it. I could invest another $40K in open reel software and still be ahead financially and performance wise :^) (big smile, because there's no way I have the money).

albertporter

Owner
Albert, I was just thinking that if you are spending lots of time with metadata and the music server, then does that mean that it is sounding good enough to you to justify the time investment?

I have not even heard it.

Until it works correctly I won't put it in the system. I have so many master tapes and LPs, I'm in no hurry. If the music server or remote does not work or album art and track data is messed up, I'll be unhappy with it.

I handed the iPad to one of the guys in my audio group last night and he got a big grin on his face. He was ready to play with it and see what it sounded like but the server was in my office sitting beside my two other Mac computers so no way to hear it.

Even when I get it running I'm warned not to make a hasty decision, my Ayre DAC is brand new in the box, zero hours.

albertporter

Owner
Of course I did not follow this advise myself even. I wanted to get all my CDs in yesterday. That usually makes for some extra work down the road. Oh well.

I understand, exact same for me. I thought I would breeze through it and be running instantly.

Most of my problems came not from the CD ripping process, but rather HD files and CD music in FLAC (other than artwork hassle).

In spite of that, it's great to be able to run the library from my iPhone and iPad.

The CDs have been stored in another room for many years and at least now access will be easy.

albertporter

Owner
Mapman,

I agree metadata is a mess, not only for classical but older jazz and pop as well. Even the found titles with correct data often go missing on album art then I have to search, drag to desktop and add.

It's not a pleasant job, when all is done you just have it correct, no credit for all the hard work to make it right. I'll bet I have 100 hours on mine now if you count all the software testing and corrections. I was up until 5:30 AM this morning, determined to finish.

Now I find titles that did not transfer (mix of WAV and FLAC) and must tend to those before proceeding.

albertporter

Owner
I don't know how Squeezebox or Logitech devices work, my Mac Mini will be parternered with Ayre QB-9 DAC via the Nucleus USB by Locus.

Editing the software, titles and album images is a soul sucking job, I wish I didn't care what it looked like.

albertporter

Owner
Mapman,

Funny, Jax2 commented about the Squeezeserver on the other thread. I hope to have this running Tuesday after next, maybe I'll have everything straight by then and can begin the break in process.

albertporter

Owner
I'm posting a duplicate response here to another thread about music server and Mac Mini.

Neil,

What I'm attempting to do is synchronize WAV, FLAC and Apple Lossless music files into iTunes.

iTunes does not support FLAC so I have four programs that can accommodate all the music files but each work differently and not equally user friendly.

FLAC files don't play or display album art in iTunes normally and each of the other programs are different in appearance, design and quality and (so far) only one plays nice with iTunes and supports all formats up to 384.

That's before we even begin discussing the sound quality.

For ease of use I want absolute control with no monitor, so I have several programs I've experimented with to "see" my Mini with the monitor off. The best is "Remote" which is Apple software, it's slick as can be and is absolutely free to download and use.

The best remote desktop that controls everything (not just iTunes) is Log Me in Ignition which is quite a bit more complicated to download, install and use but it's capable of even running Photoshop if need.

The short answer is, right now it's looking like a runoff between Amarra Pro and Channel D Pure Music.

The user manuals on both of these is enough to make me run to my turntable :^). I do like the fact that 1000 + CDs and high res downloads fit in a couple of 2 TB hard drives I scored at Amazon for $88.00 each.

Last, it winds up being important to do some tweaks to the Mac Mini to make it perform it's best. Solid state drive, good USB cable, best Intel chip and maximum RAM. That should be no surprise to anyone who uses a computer, those facts help everything from Mail and Word to Photoshop.

albertporter

Owner
Just to clarify, this is a Mach2 Music server using Mac Mini.

albertporter

Owner
I'm realistic, I have no delusions that this will displace my master tapes or LPs but there is quite a bit of music not available except as download or CD.

I just hope I can get this to sound good enough to enjoy, that's all I'm looking for.

Thanks for the encouragement.

albertporter

Owner
Mapman,

I've always had digital, just searching for a better solution. The cool part is four thousand CDs accessible via iPad.

albertporter

Owner
Big change in store, tomorrow my Mac music server arrives. I'll know pretty quick which DAC will be mated with it.

Some titles are repeats of what I have on LP but mostly not.

albertporter

Owner
System edited: A few equipment and description changes.

albertporter

Owner
Glai,

Very interesting to read the outcome of your test. My two turntables are both Technics SP10 MK3 so perhaps that's part of what I'm hearing.

I still have one MK3 on a Vibraplane that I can compare back and forth, I’m happy to have that option.

The subs could be cut as you suggest, but I've gotten accustomed to having clean, fast, low bass and don't want to give that up.

I'm wondering out loud, could 100% of the mass all on the top shelf, (everything else empty) contribute? It sure makes for an upside down pendulum until I finish the set up.

I will load phono and preamp onto the Stillpoints rack soon, just need time to absorb what's already improved.

albertporter

Owner
Mitch4t,
Is that Technics table a belt or direct drive? I had a Technics table in the '70's and they were all direct drive back then.

It's a direct drive. Sound is very different than belt drive.

I've posted several times on the topic but the short answer: A well executed direct drive (or idler like Garrard 301) has a more immediate and dynamic sound.

albertporter

Owner
Fred,

Initial test is done, I will probably learn more, perhaps even change my mind with more listening but here is initial impression.

Musically, the Stillpoints rack is better in every way to every other rack or support system I've ever tried. The only issue is the super low bass if you "heavy foot" beside the rack with the needle running in the groove. You can hear that force through the subs.

That same test with the Vibraplane on my aluminum stands, ALL noise is wiped out absolutely. It is not possible even with my suspended floor to get footfalls or feedback with the Vibraplane under the turntable.

So, the question comes down to:

Better overall sound than I've had, with some issue in super low bass with impact next to the stand.

Or, absolute isolation at all frequencies with Vibraplane but not as good as sound.

Guess you can't have it both ways, at least not in my system with twin sub woofers that are flat into the "teens" region.

albertporter

Owner
Sorry Fred, I just got home late yesterday from covering Salon Son and Image show in Canada.

I hope to have help this afternoon, before our usual Tuesday night music session. If that happens we can maybe get an initial impression this evening.

albertporter

Owner
Steve, embarrassingly I began the article and have it mostly complete but never sent it in. I wasted so much time completing, it seemed irrelevant now.

I sold the older tube crossover versions, they were all good, just steps in the evolutionary chain.

albertporter

Owner
Thank you Tzh21y, I appreciate the compliment.

We are listening tonight, I hope the gang will be in a good mood and help me move my current stand so we can hear the new Stillpoints stand that arrived last week.

I leave for the Salon Son & Image show in the morning, if you or anyone at Audiogon is attending (Montreal, Canada) look me up.

albertporter

Owner
Sam,

I think Francisco (Microstrip) has your answer.

albertporter

Owner
Sam,

Did you ask Tom about the balanced? Maybe you can run two single ended tube units and combine signal to make it work?

It would probably require careful tube matching for bass but I think the HF is passive anyway. Maybe get Ralph involved (Atma-Sphere) he understands the two designs.

albertporter

Owner
Steve,

You mentioned 3 crossovers, were they updated models for the Megaline, or for 2 previous speakers?

All three were custom built crossovers for Dali Megaline. Each was an evolution from the previous model going from simple single box and traditional off the shelf components to this last version which is dual mono with hand made 1% tolerance Teflon caps and massively overbuilt twin outboard power supplies.

One question, I have a Lyngdorf TDAi2200 that I am currently driving my MBL's with. It has a very good sound quality, with a very neat party trick, it has the ability to select crossover points and slopes, and adjust the level between the two. Would it be worth giving it a try with the Megalines?

You need to contact Tom and for precise details about crossover point and slopes. If I remember correctly Dali uses one slope for the highs and another for bass with an overlap at 1000HZ to accommodate midrange integration. To make things more complicated the bass gets an EQ and there is a difference in efficiency between the ribbons and woofer array.

That's why my custom crossover has a pentode output with gain control for woofer and passive for ribbon plus an adjustment for turnover (bass boost) at flange point.

It was not easy building a custom crossover, get values wrong and you can destroy the ribbon tweeter.

I have decided to add a single DD18 plus or a pair of DD12. (edit here) Would you go 1 or 2 ?

I choose twin subs running in true stereo with crossover below 35 Hz to get super low where the Dali can't quite reach.

The Megaline is extremely fast which requires a quick, controlled sub to integrate. I'm guessing stereo DD12 would be easier to integrate with more believable image than a single DD18.

albertporter

Owner
New Stillpoints stands on the way. These are the triple shelf model, 28" tall and 26" wide, two complete units.

Hope to have an idea about performance late next week or early the week after, before I fly out to cover Salon Son and Image show in Canada.

albertporter

Owner
Steve,

Your questions are difficult, especially considering the vast design differences between the Katana, MBL and Dali Megaline.

Based on what I've heard at shows (since I've obviously not had all these in my home) the Katana is likely the most focused image. It will throw a small image compared to the MBL and Dali but more precise and lower height.

The MBL will be the most spacial but (in my opinion) with phase and tonal balance issues.

The Dali will be the least effected by the room and will likely have the most "walk through" sound stage of the three, especially on properly recorded classical music.

If you want super deep bass the Dali requires subs. That being said I owned mine for years with no sub and never knew what I was missing since they do well to 30-35 Hz.

As for tube crossover, had I not gone this direction, the Dali would have been sold long ago. I could not live with Megaline with the factory crossover.

The guy that built all three of my tube crossovers is Tom Tutay. Tom does not have a website or even an email address (I know, I've tried to explain to him).

Tom's phone number is 850-244-3041. I can call and ask questions on your behalf since you are so far away, but I am neither technically nor financially involved with Tom in any way.

That being said, Tom is a friend, an excellent technician and all around great guy.

albertporter

Owner
Fred,

That second Vibraplane was sold and replaced with a new (latest version) ordered from Sounds Of Silence.

I'm hoping the Still Points rack will help the Studer, I don't want to have to add a third Vibraplane but I half way expect it would help the same as it did on the turntables.

albertporter

Owner
Fred, was the second MK3 and Vibraplane finished when you last visited?

I have not mentioned it but I have the new Still Points 26" wide rack on the way too. It will be interesting to test turntable on it versus Vibraplane.

You need to hear this new cable, you're in for a treat.

albertporter

Owner
System edited: Corrected items description due to multiple cable changes of both AC and interconnect. Speaker cable change will come soon.

albertporter

Owner
Albert, how many feet apart are your Dali speakers?

thanks, mitch

I just used a tape measure since I was not sure. Looks like 9 feet, almost exactly to the inch.

albertporter

Owner
John,

You are very gracious to offer those glowing compliments.

I know you're important to IBM but hoping they give you a break soon. I could not hold up to that many US and international flights spaced so close together.

When you do get a break I would like to visit you again and hear your upgrades.

You are of course welcome to come here again and no doubt the VTL and break in of the new Purist 25th Anniversary will bring performance up even higher than last night.

albertporter

Owner
Hi Albert -

Thank you for your hospitality and the opportunity to visit and listen to your system a few weeks ago when I was in Dallas.

I enjoyed the music session too, I wish you could hear the improvements that have occurred since then, amazing how quick things can change.

I will absolutely be at RMAF, probably capturing images for Audiogon. If Art and I could visit one evening that would be great.

Thank you for the kind words about my room, I don't think most people at Audiogon have any idea how much treatment there is since it is so well hidden.

I took a look at your system after we met, both you and Art have that great VAC tube gear.

albertporter

Owner
Chadnliz
Albert are you in Florida or Texas? I know we talked on phone a few times but I forget.......I am planning some trips and maybe if your close and free you could allow me the pleasure of hearing your rig.

I'm in Dallas, TX. If travel brings you this way you are most welcome to come listen with me or maybe even an evening when the group is here.

Let me know, we can trade phone numbers and set a time.

albertporter

Owner
John,

Not yet, but the long runs were installed yesterday and I'm burning them in.

albertporter

Owner
Sam,

Short answer is the King/Cello was best sound, but the test revealed some unexpected results. FWIW both Dale and I agreed 100% on outcome and performance ranking.

#1 Dale's A-810, wired RCA direct head output + King/Cello

#2 My A-810, using XLR out, restored hot rod electronics.

#3 Dale's A-810, wired RCA direct head output + Bottlehead.

#4 Dales A-810, from factory electronics (restored by an independent tech).

My A-810 Studer restored by Studer N.A. (Steve Smith) was so close to the King/Cello, it required multiple sessions to distinguish between them. However, we did give the ultimate nod to King/Cello.

We tested using multiple cables, both mine and the various ones Dale brought with him for this test. I mention cable as an important factor since the King/Cello requires an additional power cord and interconnect.

At one point we had (at retail) more than $20K in cables in place to make sure the electronics were given an opportunity to show what they could do.

Performance results beyond first and second place represented a vast difference, making them not worthy of consideration in my opinion.

albertporter

Owner
System edited: Added 25th Anniversary DIN to RCA phono. Removed Ortofon A90. Removed used Vibraplane, added new Vibraplane 2212

albertporter

Owner
Straightahead, my thanks to you too for visiting my system and the nice compliment.

I had a look at your system and no doubt it's a super performer. I've owned or had first hand listening experience with every piece you own except the Richard Gray and Audioquest.

The Vandy 5A is possibly the best speaker Richard ever built, the most musical of all his efforts. Then again my experience with his newer models is exclusively at RMAF or CES where sound is far less than ideal.

In any case I would bet an evening of spinning music at your place would be a joyful experience.

albertporter

Owner
Geoff,

Sincere thanks for the compliment on my system. Like most here at Audiogon I'm obsessed with music and search for any upgrade that gets me closer.

Aqueous is an excellent cable, I have not done the listening test you outlined so noting I can add except I'm pleased that you got where you wanted to be.

As for digital cable between Arcam to Red Wine, what kind of connection is that? I assume RCA since you mention Eichmann.

Also curious, do you have a web site where your photo's can be viewed?

albertporter

Owner
beautiful plinths for your MK IIIs. I aquired a nice MK II and I am looking for a plinth with two arms. One arm will be a completly rewired Micro Seiki Max 282. It has a big counterweight as you properly know. Is it possible to store such heavy weights under the plinth?

Thuchan,
If you send me dimensions I can verify clearance. We have already allowed additional clearance on the new dual arm version, deeper cavity under the tonearm and some versions have a cut away underneath.

This modification was in response to larger phono cables such as Nordost Odin, previously these types of cables were difficult to fit in the space and not bind.

There is a certain amount of custom choice with these, so even if what we do now is not perfect I can be done. The problem is time, only a few coming out of the shop each year.

albertporter

Owner
Albert, now that you have had your Audiocraft AC4400 for a while, would you care to comment on it?

T_bone, I like it very much. It performs equal or better than modern arms I've owned. It allows VTA on the fly and has variable damping.

There are at three arm wands and at least two Audiocraft head shells so combining these allow ideal range with most every phono cartridge.

I've been considering what I might purchase if I went for one more arm and the only other one that attracts me is the Fidelity Research FR66s. I'm going to have to wait on that one, it's at least as much as the Audiocraft and I've spent too much lately.

albertporter

Owner
System edited: Added photos

albertporter

Owner
Purchased eight of the new Stillpoints Ultras (retail $225.00 each). They have been shipped and with luck will be here later this week.

I plan on trying them with turntable and possibly speakers.

albertporter

Owner
Jarrett,

These are very different animals and each has a band of followers. The Puritas has much improved sound over the older Allnic carts. The Ortofon A90 is limited production, a celebration of many years of success for the company.

albertporter

Owner
Eckart,

I have access to a few master tapes, maybe two hundred or so. Email me to discuss.

I don't own the infrared control but did use it a week ago when one of the guys in my audio group brought it, the King Cello and some cables over for us to experiment with.

albertporter

Owner
Microstrip,

I was told about the vibration control upgrade by Steve Klein when we spoke on the phone. My Vibraplane was a much older model so this upgrade may not be "brand new."

The Silentaire I bought is the DR-150. Bought from an Ebay seller that I deal with off site.

albertporter

Owner
12-24-10: Microstrip
Albert,
Are you referring to the compressor being quieter?
What pressure are you using with your Vibraplanes?

I use the Silentaire pump from Italy, it's less money and equally reliable, 29 DB SPL and 114 PSI capable. I have mine set for 114 at the pump and 80 at the Vibraplane.

I sold one of my Vibraplane and bought the newest model, I was told there are additional vibration control parts in this new model, resulting in better isolation and lower noise.

albertporter

Owner
T_bone,

The SkipJack is very transparent, good enough for testing with some of the better high quality line level electronics.

I was hoping to use with phono level but the addition of another set of RCAs plus 1.0 meter of even the best interconnect cable is a performance hit over direct input.

albertporter

Owner
I just purchased a brand new Vibraplane from Sounds Of Silence, this latest version is supposed to be even more effective and quieter than older models.

albertporter

Owner
Thank you ish, I suspect the Apogee at your home will be equally thrilling. I'm looking forward to the visit.

albertporter

Owner
Vito, may be some delay responding. I'm at my sons college and slow to do email.

albertporter

Owner
Albert,
What type of acoustical panel did you install? Are you relying on diffusion of absorption?

Behind the speakers are RPG panels from floor to ceiling. The walls and roof cavity are all acoustic panels made from fiberglass. The new fireplace panel uses thick sheets of acoustical cotton rather than fiberglass. It's covered with the same material I have on the walls.

This new fireplace panel is hung in place with heavy duty aluminum channels. When we want the fireplace the panel unhooks and can be moved.

The guy that built this last panel is super reasonable. I told him about Audiogon but I don't think he's run any ads here. This guy did custom aircraft interiors and his workmanship is good and the cotton is supposed to be "green" and healthy.

Acoustically it seems about the same as the fiberglass.

albertporter

Owner
Thanks Chadnliz,

The acoustic panel was a rather large upgrade, more improvement than I expected. Better control of not only the highs (which I expected) but the deep bass as well.

As always, room acoustics are at least half the battle, the source, equipment and attention to detail the other.

albertporter

Owner
System edited: New image of my room show changed over several months. Sony TV removed from floor beside left speaker. New 65" Panasonic Plasma wall mounted to brick. You can see placement of the two JL Audio subs. Now all four (black) VTL amps show, silver VTL sold. New custom acoustic panel mounted to between speakers.

albertporter

Owner
The pic of your music group has a vintage quality to it...is that a Technics R2R?

Vbr,
Sam

Yes, it's an older photo with the Technics instead of my Studer A810. Truth is the whole room and system have changed so much I'm embarrassed that I've not done new photos.

Cobblers kids and all I guess.

albertporter

Owner
Samhar
Yikes!!!!! Nothing about your first born??!!

Most of that is to protect themselves but if I wanted to link to photography that I did professionally (such as for Audiogon or an equipment manufacturer) I would essentially be offering copyright to Photobucket.

I doubt they would try to take advantage, but for safety I'm going to look for alternatives.

albertporter

Owner
Legal terms you must agree to before Photobucket will host your photos.

"By displaying or publishing ("posting") any Content on or through the Photobucket Services, you hereby grant to Photobucket and other users a non-exclusive, fully paid and royalty-free, worldwide, limited license to use, modify, delete from, add to, publicly perform, publicly display, reproduce and translate such Content, including without limitation distributing part or all of the Site in any media formats"

albertporter

Owner
If there were more slots available I could eventually include photos of everyone.

I opened an account with Flickr. I may load images there and provide a link.

Does anyone know of a better free image service than Flickr? Preferably one who's terms of agreement does not require me giving all image rights to the service.

albertporter

Owner
Added image, a few of the guys in my music group.

albertporter

Owner
System edited: Removed and added equipment.

albertporter

Owner
Sylvania black plate are what I have, the version that looks like shiny metal rather than the soft matte finish.

I've also tried the version with gray colored plates, which I don't think sound quite as good.

albertporter

Owner
Do you have a preference among the NOS 6350 tubes you've tried?

albertporter

Owner
I bought several varieties of the 6463 on advice from some tube gurus that said it was a perfect replacement for the 6350.

Two of my VTL 750 amps ran fine with them, one would not work at all and one began oscillating and had to be cut off. The amps that started and ran with the substitute tubes sounded somewhat different but not necessarily an improvement.

Short answer is I have quite a few of these and would be pleased to dispose of them. Their original intent was early computers but there may be audio products that were properly designed to use them.

I have since bought a lot of NOS Sylvania and RCA 6350 tubes and swap them out about every two change out on the 6550 Wing C in the output stage.

albertporter

Owner
System edited: Added Allnic Puritas to system (stock image from Allnic)

albertporter

Owner
Albert,

Are you covering RMAF for AudiogoN?

Yes, and pleased to be doing so. I really enjoy RMAF and CES as well. Not just the sound in the rooms but all the people I get to see all to infrequently.

albertporter

Owner
Art, a Napolean kitty would be great, how about I come get yours?

albertporter

Owner
My wife treats me like a dog and I listen to the system.

Does that count?

albertporter

Owner
System edited: Added image of new dual arm plinth for MK3

albertporter

Owner
T_bone. The Skip Jack is just a switch box, a way to divert signal from multiple sources into one. I have several tests in mind which will determine if the signal quality is maintained as advertised.

It could work with CD-Blue Ray player, providing option to select between my Plasma and the Allnic or maybe even phono sources to various phono stages if quality is good enough.

albertporter

Owner
System edited: I just purchased the Manley Skip Jack. Added an image and description.

albertporter

Owner
Good answer to Godzilla T_bone. There were a lot of great tables produced in Japan and many of them were well cared for by their owners.

Buy a clean one, rebuild and re-plinth and have a state of the art LP playback machine equal or better than new offerings.

Mapman
I've read where the isolation effects of the Vibraplane can be achieved cost effectively using a heavy granite slab from Home Depot resting on four tennis balls.

Over the years I've had most of those devices including the home made one you describe and the popular Ginko Cloud.

Those and pointy footers, springs and rubber shocks of all types absolutely change the sound of the table, some help a great deal more than others.

In the end, they all have drawbacks. I could describe each but I'll keep it short and say the Vibraplane is so superior you won't even think about the others once you hear it.

The good news is a Vibraplane need not be expensive. I've recently found another one for $485.00, in what looks like perfect condition. Add a pump and you're in business.

albertporter

Owner
I am considering an active isolation platform for my turntable. I am looking at the Kinetic Systems 8001, which is not air based, rather piezo-electric if memory serves me.

On a scale of 1 to 10, how much do you value your isolation platforms? An thoughts on sonic impact with your experience would be greatly appreciated.

I have no experience with the 8001, but the tried and true active air version is wonderful and isolates down into the single digit region.

Sonic impact? I did pretty well before the twin JL Audio subs went into the system.

Sure, the Dali Megalines went low and had lots of power but did not create the floor movement the JL subs are doing. I'm just now hearing what everything can do since adding the Vibraplane. Bass is incredibly tight and fast and goes much deeper now. I actually turned the bass up after the Vibraplane and have "less" bass (less bloom) than before.

With my custom stand and multiple isolation feet my table was reasonably well isolated but deliberately stomping on the floor beside the turntable with the needle dropped and volume up created some sound through the speakers. Oddly enough, the Walker Black Diamond and it's air suspension had this same issue, even with everything adjusted perfect.

The Vibraplane is the first device that I've experienced that eliminates EVERYTHING totally. The other day we measured average SPL of 88 to 92 DB with peaks at 107 DB and no feedback. The measurement was taken at the listening seat, 14 to 16 feet from the speakers, not at one meter as typical.

Very loud, very dynamic, best it's been with plenty of reserve and utterly transparent midrange and top. It may sound crazy but I'm wondering what a third Vibraplane might do for my Studer A810.

albertporter

Owner
Microstrip,

Watch your back is correct, the Vibraplane is at least 150 pounds.

I had help getting mine up on the stand, otherwise I would have hurt myself.

albertporter

Owner
System edited: Added text and images, (2) Vibraplane 2212-01 active isolation platforms for my turntables. Corrected text on Allnic preamp + phono (new transformer upgrade).

albertporter

Owner
Thank you Eric, pleased to have met another music lover. Those were some great LPs you shared with me.

Don't forget you are invited to our regular sessions any week that you can get away and visit.

albertporter

Owner
Bruce30,

It is my only system, I have speakers hooked up to my computer but they are inexpensive off the shelf set (woofer plus satellites) from Micro Center.

My son's system is based around his computer, TV and various video games but has recently gotten into LP.

This began when I gave him a stack of back up LPs from my collection plus a used turntable and ADC cartridge.

He hears the difference between LP and CD and has decided Miles Davis and Dave Brubeck are now necessary for studying. He's on the Deans list and will be in grad school next year, we listen together every time he gets a break and comes home.

So that's as cose to a second system as I have :^).

albertporter

Owner
My sincere thanks Steve, pleased to have made your evening of music listening with our group a memorable one.

The aged bourbon and single malt Scotch are still on my bar, waiting for your return engagement of music listening.

Your comment about our groups great sense of humor is flattering. I make it a point to enjoy myself and if possible associate myself with like minded friends. Music is filled with joy and entertainment and sharing with others makes it better.

You're welcome back any time.

albertporter

Owner
Brian, Please drop me an email when you ship. I'm eager to hear results of your tape head cleaner.

I assume it's totally safe on my Studer.

albertporter

Owner
Thanks Brian,

You had it wrapped well, the parcel must have taken quite a jolt.

The bottle that did not shatter has small particles floating around in it. Assume that's part of the formula.

albertporter

Owner
Mo Fi PURE Record Rinse is ultra pure water. I use both it and NERL Reagent grade.

I have two LP cleaning machines, Audio Desk and Odyssey. I load the Odyssey with Mo Fi cleaner.

The Audio Desk comes with a single use concentrate to which user adds just over 1 gallon of water to make ready.

NERL Reagent Grade from 5 gallon cubitainer is my water source for the Audio Desk. Both are excellent machines, many posts on both here at Audiogon.

albertporter

Owner
Brian,

New formula MoFi plus is superb, even better than before. Noise level on difficult (used) LPs improved with only one try.

The two glass vials were in the package but one was broken in transit. I promised myself I would call you several times but have not.

albertporter

Owner
Wish we had the one you brought here. The version with the solid felt insert. Overall the group preferred the Walker to the new one.

It looks like you, Earl and I all prefer the felt version where manufacturer thinks the solid plate version is better.

Goes to show how different people hear things.

albertporter

Owner
Albert is a superb host and has an enviable system.

Thank you Fred, I received the record clamp from Europe yesterday and will do some listening tonight with the regular group.

albertporter

Owner
Hi Albert , look through the website and didn’t see the test version CD for sales anywhere.

I spoke with him via tech support line at JL Audio and ordered the CD over the phone. His own website that I provided a link for has his phone and email.

Assume either would get you in touch with him to order the CD.

albertporter

Owner
Vito,

One of the technicians at JL Audio has a company called Sound Doctor. It's in Dunedin, FL.

I have their Test Version 1.6.09 CD and instructions, a great way to get your subs set up and integreated, then follow up with long term listening to determine if you've achieved the best sound.

http://www.soundoctor.com/ Link to his site

albertporter

Owner
Thank you very much Listener614.

albertporter

Owner
Aaron,

Joke is good, no doubt the cables are expensive.

One of these days I will get a better digital, there are some great titles only available as CD and I would like to hear them at their best.

Tonight we listened for several hours with the changes to my turntable set up and we are getting extremely close to what my Studer is doing. I'm happy because I have a lot of records and not nearly so many tapes.

As for tape for Australia my guess is there are lots of studios there that moved to digital. That should free up some great Ampex and Studer decks that would serve you well and a reasonable price.

albertporter

Owner
Ken,

I'm not familiar with most of the components you list or where they rank in performance other than the Oppo.

I've owned several DVD players and also a Pioneer Elite Blue Ray and the Oppo is as good an image from Blue Ray as I've seen.

Oppo not the best sound but good. I prefer the Pioneer Elite for red book CD sound but mine is not the improved SE version. Of course SOTA performance for CD is further up the line with Playback Designs or EMM labs but those are not in my budget in this economy.

albertporter

Owner
System edited: Converted my Allnic to new series, the L-3000 with 30% larger output transformers and improved bias circuit for the Mullard E-810F outputs.

albertporter

Owner
GD,

My tonearm took a hit in transit, so the Ortofon was not put in and run as I had planned.

I got an email from the factory today and the arm will be repaired and on it's way back next week. I'll gladly install the Ortofon and report then.

albertporter

Owner
Fred,

My new tonearm took a hit on the way from Germany. I was forced to pack it up and FedEx back to factory. For now mounting the Ortofon will have to wait for it's return.

The Allnic transformers arrived more than a week ago. Again, stopping for the new tonearm threw everything off.

Having listened with me, you know how careful I am about tests and making comments until I know exactly what's going on with new gear.

albertporter

Owner
System edited: Added Ortofon A90, Added Allnic L-3000 (new transformer version), corrected updates on cable, removed Wenge Technics plinth.

albertporter

Owner
I have two additional tone arms and two other cartridges soon to be in play, hope Fred will visit and compare again.

My Studer was so thoroughly rebuilt, I have a large box of parts that I handed Fred so he could see. The tech did so much to make it perfect, better than when new.

That along with a few ultimate master dubs (superior even to The Tape Project) make for a hell of a source.

albertporter

Owner
Sam,

It would be great if you could visit after I have both turntables up and running.

We could compare all four cartridges against the new master tape dubs.

albertporter

Owner
Come on over.

albertporter

Owner
Adri2005,

Do you want to call me and discuss? I don't want to turn Audiogon forum into a sales pitch for Purist (I sell them), even though I used them for 20 years before I ever sold a pair :^).

albertporter

Owner
John,

I wish you would come listen, both my twin arm tables will be running soon and you can hear the A90 for yourself. The other cartridges I mentioned will be playing too.

I recently received several more tapes from The Tape Project and also some master dubs from a collector. Sound of these are amazing.

Have you been here since the subs, new crossover and cable changes?

albertporter

Owner
A really splendid system just continues to get better as your refine it further, I left quite depressed about my own setup...

Forget about that, our speaker designs are so similar that either system can sound like the other, all depends on which way we twist the components.

Napolean cat was waiting for me when I got home, and sends his best! He wants to come with next visit. :-)

That fur ball is welcome, he can spread out on the rug and listen with us. He made me laugh out loud when we listened at your place.

albertporter

Owner
One of the nice things about having two turntables and four arms is the ability to optimize the arm cartridge interface and to be able to compare multiple cartridges in real time.

The new old stock Audiocraft AC4400 was purchased with two arm wands, one for cartridges with compliance and mass for carts like Koetsu Coralstone and another for lighter carts like Ortofon. With this arm I can actually compare with much fewer variables, just swap arm wands.

albertporter

Owner
Thanks Sam and Ish,

It will require some time to sort everything out. I understand the Ortofon requires 50-100 hours in before any judgement can be made and unfortunately the Haniwa also has zero hours on it.

albertporter

Owner
Ortofon MC A90 shipped to me today.

I should have Ortofon A90, Air Tight Supreme, Koetsu Coralstone and Haniwa HTCR01 operational next week. Feels like Christmas in May :^).

albertporter

Owner
System edited: Technics EPA 100 tone arm that sold to a gentleman here at Audiogon. Replaced with NOS Audiocraft AC-4400 with medium and heavy wands.

albertporter

Owner
Thank you Major Tom, but your grounded now.

albertporter

Owner
I've spent several hours with Ground Control and there will be a long session tomorrow.

Tomorrow evening is the regular music meeting at my home. It will be interesting to get input from others regarding the change.

albertporter

Owner
Interesting product just arrived for advertising photography, the AudioPrism Ground Control.

Have any of you heard these yet?

albertporter

Owner
Mike, I enjoyed your short visit too. I wish we had more time together and wish Steve Dobbins had joined us even though I know he had work to do.

I'm not surprised by your comment about my system being softer than some. I have the tonal balance neutral to slightly warm with emphasis on high resolution, no distortion and the ability to play close to live music SPL without compression.

I have maybe two hundred "audiophile approved" LPs but once everyone is tired of those you have to drag out commercial releases and many of them are hot. Where I have it now I can play anything I own and it sounds excellent and better recordings are obvious and stand apart.

I certainly don't think you have any hearing issues at your age but I think many older audiophiles compensate for loss of high frequencies by cranking up the treble. Maybe I hear better or maybe just different. I do know that younger members of my group think the highs are perfect. Differences and preferences are normal and why there will never be a perfect system for everyone.

The "Cowboy" tape you mention is Faron Young http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faron_Young

Mr Young had a very successful career in music and also had roles in about ten motion pictures.

I bought the tapes from a nurse who had them since his death. No doubt with the chatter and cussing this was a direct, no edit safety and labeled as such with Faron's old mechanical typewriter and bearing his initials.

A rare find indeed, wish I had more like that, fortunately I located it before The Tape Project drove all these old tape up to sky high prices.

Let me know what you hear when you spin the Roger Waters cut we played. From what i remember at your place the Evolution Acoustics 15" woofers will be up to the task.

While It may be special effects, it's fun and true to Roger Waters words and emotion expressed on this amazing twin disc LP.

albertporter

Owner
thank you for the use of your Timeline. My Denon held the spot on the wall for two hours

Ken, I understand you did a lot of adjustment on the circuit before that became a reality.

albertporter

Owner
Microstrip, I think I understand but may wait for a friend to bring a room analysis computer and we do frequency plots instead.

I have filters being built for my bass amps that will cut at three different points and I'll attempt to move the JL Audio into the hole that leaves.

In theory, reducing the stress on the Megaline woofers should result in better midrange detail and less distortion. I'll post results as we get to it.

albertporter

Owner
Audioblazer, I've checked all my usual LP retailers and so far no copies of Frederick Fennell RR 58 in any condition. Thanks for the suggestion, I'll keep looking.

albertporter

Owner
Audioblazer,
Makes sense now, however the JL Audio subs are sealed boxes, no way to access speaker terminals.

I wonder if the normal - inverted phase switch is 100% accurate? Maybe I could try that in place of swapping speaker leads.

albertporter

Owner
Microstrip, you begin with the phase reversed, or phase reversed at the end and it leave that way?

albertporter

Owner
Tomorrow night is music night. I'll try a couple of different phase settings, starting with the one that worked for you.

Multiple listeners sitting in different positions in the room will probably a good way to evaluate.

albertporter

Owner
Electrically your exactly where I am. I have no idea about your sub position as I've only tried mine where JL Audio suggested for this system.

Does you sub match speed, phase and imaging with your main speakers so it's one complete image or soundstage?

albertporter

Owner
If your CJ has only have one set of RCA outputs, the buffer Tom built should have one RCA in and at least two RCAs out.

One RCA out should come direct off CJ preamp and the other should come off the buffer circuit.

The reason for this is the buffer has a signature (like all electronics).

I think your main speakers would sound better driven direct from the CJ and the subs will do better with the buffer. I say this because the amps in the subs are digital.

Regarding mine. The subs woofer cones line up exactly with woofer cones in my main speakers. This was given as best possible set up (via phone) with one of JL Audio's engineers.

Option two was move the subs half the distance closer to listening area than mains to give subs speed (arrival time) advantage. I can't do that in my room so I can't say what that might do for sound.

My phase is set for zero and I have not used the microphone to alter EQ but probably will after enough time for break in.

albertporter

Owner
From your description you are not putting the buffer in line with the amps that drive the main speakers. Some buffers Tom builds have XLR and RCA output and can drive multiple inputs.

I have my sub volume about 12:00 O’clock and 12 DB per octave with cut off at 35HZ. No phase set, still at zero.

How did you arrive at 45 degrees for phase? Are your subs in line with main speakers?

albertporter

Owner
You're not using the buffer for main speakers are you?

If you feel up to it post results of the test, including crossover point and if you activated the polarity switch.

albertporter

Owner
Any recommendation of CD or LP to help integrate the sub?

I've been working on this for several weeks with help from guys in my audio group.

Music without super low bass is not difficult but content that engages both the deepest bass in the main speaker and the subs is difficult. This is where it becomes difficult to get the EQ and sound pressure adjustments perfect.

My short answer is keep the sub as low as possible. Any volume above minimum needed to produce the missing material makes the sub stand out rather than seamlessly integrate.

Some of the material I've used that make adjustment easier:

Roger Waters "Amused to Death." (Yep, bass all over the place on the LP and I assume on the CD as well. "Three Wishes" is one of the most powerful and will absolutely give the sub woofer hell. Is it still part of the system at that moment?).

The Royal Ballet Ernest Ansermet, RCA LDS 6065, Swan Lake, Sleeping Beauty (Listen for depth of orchestra and the famous subway or trucks, both explanations have been given for the deep bass generated outside the hall, but clearly audible within).

Massive Attack, "The Best Of"

Duke Ellington, "Piano in the Foreground" (Listen to cut two, "Cong-Go" for depth and location of the drums).

Gil-Scott Heron, "I'm New Here" This is a highly processed album but has substantial bass and it's easy to hear if sub is not calibrated perfect. Sometimes the hyped stuff makes subs misbehave more than regular music.

albertporter

Owner
Could be your CJ is better equipped to handle the load than other tube preamps.

albertporter

Owner
Good news about the dimmer, I'm glad there was no interaction with Tom's buffer and your power or preamp.

Did the reduction of load on your CJ ACT help the high frequency resolution?

It was huge with my Allnic, helped dynamics and midrange all the way through high frequencies.

Steve (Audiogon member Oneobgyn) described the same experience to me over the phone. He used a buffer with Lamm LL1 Signature and Audio Research before the Lamm and felt the buffer was a requirement in both cases.

albertporter

Owner
I agree with your description of the performance upgrade using Toms buffer but the most important factor is the improved load it presents tube preamps.

Are you running a tube preamp driving multiple outputs?

albertporter

Owner
T_bone,

I met the importer while covering the Axpona show in Florida.

If Kubotek sounds as good as the Air Tight I'll be delighted. The Supreme and Coralstone are my two favorite cartridges of all time.

albertporter

Owner
System edited: Added images and text for two more of my phono cartridges

albertporter

Owner
Breezer, If you look at the photo I have of the Allnic cartridge you will see it's last years model.

That model has been replaced with the new version that I don't have. I've held off buying more cartridges until both my dual arm plinths are completed and I can play all four tonearms.

Even with four tonearms, I will have six cartridges to audition so it will take some time to sort out performance.

albertporter

Owner
Zaikesman,

I don't think the platter could do much in the way of error and then wind up correct at the moment the laser pulses, especially if you watch it for several minutes with a record playing.

My reason for liking the laser projected great distance is ease of following any possible error. If you're standing next to it and watching for movement that might be 1/32 of an inch, you have to have great eyes to catch that. At 15 or 20 feet the same 1/32 is a bigger number and easier to see.

albertporter

Owner
FWIW, Kevin Barrett maintains that he knows of no one having yet demonstrated through standard measurement techniques what "cogging" supposedly takes place in even the humble SL-1200 (much less the SP-10 Mk.III with its higher pole count, heavier platter and higher torque).

I don't doubt that one bit, the Technics MK2 which is a much less expensive version of the MK3 is absolutely wonderful and was the machine that made me believe in direct drive. The MK3 would not be in my system if I had not been won over by the MK2.

albertporter

Owner
Albert, am I understanding correctly that the TimeLine works on a "lighthouse"-like principle, where a timed indicator beam comes around once every platter rotation and instant-flashes 33 1/3 times a minute? If so, it seems to me that this could only offer a way to gauge relatively long-term trends in average platter speed, but not momentary micro-variations that continuously happen and get corrected anywhere throughout the 360 degrees of rotation. Or am I missing something here?

Ron Sutherland said the laser is pulsed precisely 33 1/3 (or 45) times per minute. The laser dot is stretched into a line segment that is projected to the same place on every revolution.

This supposedly creates accurate reading to the + or - 2 parts per million, or 0.0002 %.

That is equal to + or - 0.000067 RPM and to insure accurate reading both short and long term I used a much greater distance from the turntable to vertical surface because distance magnifies any error.

albertporter

Owner
Motors all cog at one rate or another. If the platter is heavy enough it may reduce the flutter, or cogging, but maybe that would put too much of a breaking effect on the motor.

With all things audio, if the amount is low enough it's truth but more theory than experience. Cogging is usually applied to direct drive tables but like you said, all motors can probably be measured by some piece of equipment.

The important number is what happens at the platter, a belt drive table and cogging motor might measure more wow than cogging (or jerking) due to transmission via the belt and mass of the platter.

All of the mechanical descriptions used by everyone are accurate but separating the most audible from theory is difficult.

I've tried several ways to describe the signature of a more connected drive system like rim drive and direct drive but until you live with one long term it's not easily understood.

albertporter

Owner
Fritz the cat, regarding
Then I remembered that CD is perfect sound forever--DUH!

Why have i not heard of this CD thing? Sounds like the perfect format, I'll just sell the Timeline, turntables and LPs and move to this superior way of listening to music.

Let me know how you do with the test. Your explanation about the tone is not something I have ever tried but it would be interesting if you tested both that method and the Timeline and posted results.

albertporter

Owner
Gregadd
Analog jitter is cogging.
Not in the case of the Technics MK3. What I described is more like the energy one feels in a car when you rev the engine.

Certainly an over simplification, but the motor on a big direct drive table absolutely puts energy into the chassis and plinth.

The stock "glass" plinth for Technics would lead people to believe the motor is cogging, It's absolutely jittery (or cogging) sounding. Syncing off that energy renders music absolutely fluid.

albertporter

Owner
Zaikesman, it's surprising how similar the presentation is between the best direct drive and the Studer with a mater dub.

Occasionally a REALLY superb LP is put on right after a Tape Project or AAA tape and we're surprised at how close the quality of reproduction is.

The guys in my group resisting the pull to convert to tape always point out,

"See, LP is almost as good and there is much more software available."

Still, tape is better and it maintains a standard in my mind that keeps me working on improving my other sources.

albertporter

Owner
Albert, in theory I too am suspicious of bearings that allow deflection and don't provide a "mechanical ground pathway", which would include air-bearings as well as full-magnetic bearings.

I've moved from the Walker but should point out that it has a hard center rod that touches and grounds the platter. The function of the air bearing at that point is to make the 70 pound platter lighter on the tiny support rod.

How much less weight is on the rod depends on air flow adjusted by the end user. Lloyd did a great job with this air bearing because it is indeed grounded and pretty much eliminates vertical travel, at least as far as I could tell having owned a Proscenium for over a decade.

On the other hand, the drive system uses a conventional small motor with a silk ribbon for a belt. Speed variation is inevitable and actually adds some interesting "depth" to the sound stage due to phase changes from the small speed errors. I did not figure this out until I had a super speed accurate table and began using master tape to define what was the correct presentation.

albertporter

Owner
Arron,

Good point on these new drive systems. I don't know all the engineering involved but I think the idea is to de-couple the forces of the motor so noise is minimized.

The one thing that cannot be removed is rotational energy, especially when it's being applied relative to music content and need to return speed to perfect state.

In that case the motor, regardless if direct contact or via a magnet must deliver enough energy to correct the platter as instantly as possible to maintain accuracy. THAT energy must have an effect on the turntable chassis and the plinth it's connected to.

I did an "upgrade" platform under one of my Panzerholz plinths a couple of years ago, one of many trials to see what effect various isolation devices had on sound.

The analog jitter I describe was so obvious in this test that everyone in the room continued to bring the topic up months later. The isolation device reduced friction between the Panzerholz plinth and the platform it was sitting on, allowing the motor to take control of the entire assembly again.

During play I could rest my palm on the platform and bring the tip of my finger against the Panzerholz plinth and clearly reduce the problem.

This movement was so microscopic that it could not be detected by the naked eye, fortunately I was searching for a reason and made this discovery. It's hard to put yourself in the microscopic world our cartridge stylus lives in.

John Bicht of Versa Dynamics once told me the air bearing in his table was manufactured over and over in an attempt to get it to sound as good as the "cheaper" flat face (synthetic) ring bearing on his less expensive table.

It turned out that the air bearing's vertical deflection (parts of thousandth of an inch) was compromising the dynamics and bass performance of the table.

We spent many hours on the phone, I swapped photography data and Zone system printing tips in exchange for his vast experience with turntables. We both learned a lot and many ideas he planted in my head continue to effect my testing and listening.

albertporter

Owner
Lower motor speed equals lower vibration frequency and amplitude, which must be a good thing, as well as higher torque, which your experience would seem to indicate is a good thing too.

I think torque is what delivers dynamics and bass control when the program material gets tough. The reason the old Garrard 301 gets things right is a combination of torque and a drive system that's in direct contact with the platter.

The Garrard design had to deal with 78 RPM records and up to 6 grams track force. A lesser drive system would slow down or stall out. Funny that the effort to make it right is paying off at 33.

The best direct drive systems have even more torque than the Garrard, not to mention they are more speed accurate and much quieter.

By the way, I shipped my Timeline to Ken Fritz who's a member here.
Ken's system

He should receive it this week.

albertporter

Owner
Spiritofmusic,

I have not heard the Dobbins Beat turntable. A friend in my group has his plinth with a MK3 and it's a very different design than what I build. In case you don't know, I supply plinths for tables as well, so perhaps my opinion is biased.

Yes I wrote a review of the Walker, it's a superb table. Yes I owned the Townshend Rock and Excalibur arm and it was superb too.

What I remember about the Rock is the motor got very hot and the speed was stunningly accurate with great drive, something I was not accustomed to at the time. The damping system was extremely variable, every possible adjustment and cartridge brand changed the end result. I think of all the damping systems the Townshend has probably worked the hardest at making it perfect, but I'm still not sure I like the results.

My SME 312S is terrible with damping engaged, much of what Mike Lavigne described as damage to his Rockport sound is what I hear.

My personal belief is regardless of what motor is used, direct drive tables suffer from what I call "analog jitter" which describes the plinth and motor oscillating with the power and micro corrections of the powerful direct drive system. The Rockport solves this issue with hero plinth design and massive engineering work and I attack the problem on the MK3 with Panzerholz and other materials that achieve proper results.

If enough mass and damping (but not too much) the system is flawlessly smooth with dynamics that cannot be believed. If under damped you get a luke warm report from listeners, much like Mike Fremer on the Grand Prix Monaco.

This is a very complicated subject and everyone that hears good from their analog rig is both right and wrong. All I know is I have the most precise sound with closest LP reproduction to a master tape I've ever experienced and that's coming from my MK3.

I wish I had a hundred of them.

albertporter

Owner
I just got a reply from Ron at Southerland Engineering, the Timeline projected 15' to my wall and steady state image of the laser calculates to 2 parts per million of a revolution.

I assume he's correct, too much for my brain to calculate but I'm certainly pleased.

albertporter

Owner
Zaikesman,

Spectacularly well put. We'll never get it perfect but the best drive systems provide more performance difference than I ever imagined.

As for direct drive, in the case of the Technics MK3, the motor hub is part of the platter. The hub is 5 3/4" diameter, leaving only 3 1/4" to the platters edge remaining.

Here is a link:

http://www.soundfountain.com/amb/sp10page.html

Scroll down half way to HEAVY PLATTER. The photos are mine.

albertporter

Owner
Zaikesman, I think the motor of the two tables and their chosen drive system are responsible for the sonic differences of the two tables. Of course the arm plays a huge role too.

I find the Walker to be pretty much at the peak of belt drive, along with Caliburn and early Rockport. All those tables have a drive personality that I can now identify. The Technics MK3, Rockport direct drive and even the Garrard 301 (rim drive) have a more connected, powerful sound that's very different from belt drive.

I have not compared the best Micro Seiki belt drives with air bearings. If anyone solved the problem and got belt to sound as powerful as direct drive that could possibly be it. Would be nice to try one someday.

albertporter

Owner
Zaikesman, when you're ready you are welcome to try it. You can probably do all the testing you want in a day or two.

The Walker was an amazing table, I don't miss it but would not trade the experience and years of enjoyment I had with it.

albertporter

Owner
When are we gonna be treated to an action photo of the very Samson-like Albert Porter straining against the two pillars-of-a-speaker?!!

Gunbei, my friend, great to see you are still around.

Short answer to your very serious question, remember Samson lost his strength after his hair was cut, that works on me too. My wife likes me to keep it short so she can boss me around.

When are you and Marco coming for food and music?

albertporter

Owner
Albert, can you please report about the 2010 Allnic Verito versus the older Verito, and also versus the Puritas.

Breezer, I've had three or four Allnic cartridges to date and all have been a steady improvement. I have not heard the Puritas version with ebony body.

All four tonearms should be mounted and playing vinyl in the next few weeks. I put a guy in front of me on plinths so mine are delayed. The cobbler's kids have no shoes applies here.

albertporter

Owner
Dear Albert,

Thank you for the sublime listening session of April 1st...no April Fools, here :-) Savoring Nirvana and Stevie Wonder - on vinyl - and the out-of-print Suite Espanola - The Tape Project - on your system, yields an utterly intoxicating effect!

Vbr,
Sam

My sincere thanks for your gracious compliment.

albertporter

Owner
Zaikesman,

No one could possibly factor in speed variation at the lathe and I assume there must be some, even if very small. All we can do is keep playback speed as perfect as possible at this end.

Also, the offer to borrow the Timeline is sincere, you and I have a long history so problem shipping it.

albertporter

Owner
OK, I am also guilty - I have bought a distance laser meter that is accurate to 1.5m in 70m to help placing speakers. There was a much cheaper one that had 3mm accuracy but my Sound-Lab A1s only like the best!

Based on my having used Sound-Lab for my reference speakers (not that long ago), I don't doubt that one bit.

albertporter

Owner
Naive question : why do you want to set the speed of the turntable with 2 PPM accuracy if for the excellent Studer A820 the tape speed deviation is +/- 0.2% max and tape slip is 0.1% max?

I want the most out of the MK3 I can get, especially since it cannot compete with master dubs on the Studer. (Big sincere smile here).

However, the MK3 deserves to be calibrated as perfect as possible. Tens of thousands of music titles exist on LP compared to the relatively small number on open reel.

Push the source, push the whole system.

albertporter

Owner
Zaikesman, if you want to borrow the Timeline you're welcome to give it a try. There is a clip at YouTube that shows how it works and it's actually as easy as it appears.

My Technics has fine adjustment control, which fortunately is not needed in this case. Still it's good to verify that everything is working correctly.

albertporter

Owner
Zaikesman, there was a nice thread here at Audiogon a couple of weeks ago by a member who purchased a Timeline. I had my eye on one for a couple of years but balked at the $800.00 price tag.

For whatever reason the retail is now half that so I bought one.

To use, place the Timeline on the turntable spindle with the switch turned on and it paints a small bar on any nearby vertical surface.

If the laser creeps clockwise your turntables running too fast and the opposite means too slow. It's really simple and easy and selectable for both 33 & 45 speeds.

The test that confirmed the incredible speed accuracy of the MK3 was running mine in the dark night before last. From where the table sits it's more than 20 feet to the far wall beside my right speaker.

I watched the bar on the wall for several minutes and it was dead still, no creep. At that level of magnification (due to distance) I would pronounce the MK3 as perhaps the most speed accurate table of all time.

I'm happy with my Timeline, looking forward to testing tables in friends systems soon.

albertporter

Owner
System edited: Removed Technics 1520 open reel (sold). Replaced Grand Prix + Apex Footers (sold) Add four Stillpoints Component stands and footers. Add three Purist LTD AC cables, for Studer & JL Audio) Add two 13.5 meter Venustas Praesto XLR for sub signal.

albertporter

Owner
System edited: Added Southerland Engineering Timeline to my system. The most precise way I've encountered to verify speed of your turntable.

albertporter

Owner
Pryso,

The EPA 100 is still not mounted. I have a run of plinths that were due to be delivered in February and still not ready. A customer is on the way to pick up two and I pray his two are finished before he has to return home.

As soon as I can get my plinths and twin MK3 Technics running I promise to mount all the arms and cartridges. So far I have two SME 312S, the EPA 100 and my new German arm I'm working on becoming the importer for.

Cartridges I own or will test include Koetsu Coralstone, Air Tight Supreme, Ortofon A90, Shure VxMR Haniwa HCTR 01, and Allnic Puritas.

albertporter

Owner
Breezer,

The new Allnic Verito or the new Allnic Puritas?

albertporter

Owner
Rich,

I noticed a slight gain in bass last night and had to reduce JL volume knob so it maintained sonic match with the Dali's. I'm guessing woofers are breaking in or some burn in occurring with the super long XLR interconnect cables.

I just spoke to my friend Jacob who reviews for Absolute Sound. We discussed JL calibration and we both arrived at nearly identical settings . Jacob has Maggie 20.1 and like me, sliding the JL in at the very bottom end.

Both Jacob and you have been pressing me forever to go with these subs and I must admit, so far it's all upgrade and no negatives.

albertporter

Owner
Rich,

I only have a few days on the JL Audio subs but I’m already thinking they will be part of my system from now on. Superb bass and thanks to the buffer stage, no impedance issues with my preamp.

I like what the JL subs add to the music, super fast and very tight, in fact the speed is the best I've heard from any sub ever.

Over the last two days I've listened about fourteen hours. Three friends joined for most of that time with everyone commenting on how perfectly they are blended. They are surprisingly seamless but I'm sure they can be better, given some time.

I currently have them set to slide under the Dali for deepest bass. 12 DB per octave @ 40 HZ and zero phase with the subs lined up exactly with the woofers in my line array.

I'm sure I'll learn over time that other things need to be done and other adjustments made but these are terrific out of the box.

albertporter

Owner
Spoke to head of sales at JL Audio today and surprisingly they are aware of this problem. From what I was told they are considering adding circuitry to avoid this problem in the future.

I think that's a reasonable thing to do since the high end community has really embraced JL as "the" sub woofer for high end two channel systems.

albertporter

Owner
Yeah, me too :-) Seems like Tom is designing/manufacturing some pretty neat stuff for you!

I spoke to Audiogon member Peter S on this topic earlier this evening. He's ordering a buffer from Tom also since he has a tube front end and JL Audio subs.

I'm going to call JL Audio sometime this week and make sure they know this is a problem.

albertporter

Owner
Microstrip,

Tom suggested I insert a solid state preamp to serve as buffer for sub testing until his custom project is built. So basically the same idea that worked for you.

I don't have anything that will serve this purpose, so I'll just have to wait. The buffer I'm having built is zero gain and very high input impedance, so I'm expecting it will be "invisible" from a sonic standpoint and a very tidy size.

I just spoke to Tom and he's agreed to build with XLR and RCA in and out, you can plug in XLR and get true balanced out or XLR in and get RCA out. Pretty slick, should work for any other preamps that might wind up in my system from time to time.

albertporter

Owner
Sam, I hope Tom ships the buffer before your trip here. The short session with the subs was promising, lots of deep bass information.

albertporter

Owner

Today the Grand Prix stands, VTL 750s, interconnect and power cables were pulled from the system. Each amp was turned upside down and stock feet removed, original 10/32 holes converted to 1/4-20 with proper drill and tap.

This allowed direct mounting of the T nut and 11" arm of each Stillpoints component stand. I gained valuable floor space which I'll need for optimal sub positioning.

Everything was cleaned and hooked back up then we sat and listened for a couple of hours before introducing the two JL Audio F-212 subs into the system.

After some listening and adjusting I was disturbed by what I would call confusion in the highs and mid frequencies even though the subs sounded promising. I cut subs power at their control panel without improvement and then unplugged them from the wall, again with no help for mid and highs.

Finally I unplugged the XLR connector from the back of one JL and the second I did, the top end opened up. I unplugged the other sub and got the same improvement there.

It turns out JL Audio subs have an input impedance of 1K. That’s 1000, not 10K or 100K. Many tube preamps will choke on this and although the Allnic is 150ohms out (really good for tubes) it is not happy with the 1K.

I remember Audiogon member Oneobgyn posting he bought a buffer for his system so I telephoned him on this topic. He says a buffer was necessary after installing JL Audio Gotham, he went with Musical Fidelity X-10 V3.

I have Tom Tutay, the gentleman who built my tube crossover working on a solid state XLR buffer. Input impedance will be 470K. This will actually lower the load to below what was presented with crossover only.

Integration and tuning of subs will continue and I'll post reports when issue is resolved. Audiogon members with tube front ends should be aware if this until JL Audio offers subs with choices for input impedance.

albertporter

Owner
Thank you Slappy. Do you still have that great looking Mustang?

Since we last spoke, my son John bought a used 2003 Mach One with less than 20K miles from a FBI agent (no joke).

albertporter

Owner
System edited: Twin JL Audio Fathom F-212 subs arrived as well as 13 meter Purist Praesto revision XLR. As soon as Stillpoints amp stands arrive and can be tested, I'll get help positioning subs and begin work on integrating them into the system.

albertporter

Owner
System edited: Text corrected.

albertporter

Owner
Crossover modifications provided a substantial upgrade in performance. Much more extension and detail in high frequencies and tighter bass. The bass detail is spread over a much wider frequency and less bump or bloom.

All the music has more control, almost as if more notes are packed in the same place but faster. This is not what I was expecting but I'm grateful for the staggering upgrade.

What was done: All resistors were previously metal film and were replaced with best Mills wire wound. 6 Auricaps, 5 MF at 400 volt provided bypass for electrolytic and what little wire was inside was replaced with continuous cast OFC copper and (previous) Sound Connection RCA jacks that Tutay installed were replaced with Cardas Rhodium.

Total cost was $475.00 plus Auricaps from Audience. My sincere thanks to Audience for the suggestion for the perfect cap in this spot and to Bill for his exquisite workmanship at a fair price.

I could have spend $5K on a component upgrade and not gotten this much improvement. As always, clean up the chain, source and power supply and reap big benefits for dollar spent.

albertporter

Owner
If possible, it would be fantastic to hear of Tuesday's gathering at Chez Porter!

Short answer, big upgrade. We should talk.

albertporter

Owner
p.s. I hope Dali is monitoring this and retains you as a consultant - SERIOUSLY!

Thanks Sam but I don't think Dali has any interest nor do most Audiogon members. It's just my own little project because the Dali is a great speaker except for it's stock crossover.

Many Maggie fans go just as crazy rebuilding the passive or designing the active crossover for the 20.1. This makes sense in light of $150K plus speakers and tweaking cheaper speakers deliver the same level of performance (assuming your preferences are the same as mine).

albertporter

Owner
Sam,

Sorry, I failed to respond about crossover. I got about 30 minutes play time on it today, I had way too much going on to do more. I was up late last night with my own mad scheme to improve it further.

I had a machine shop cut a 26 pound piece of 6061 aluminum plate and over the last couple of weeks I've been sanding and putting coats of primer and paint on it.

I fastened the newly modded crossover to the plate with brass screws and let it run overnight. The short time I had to listen proved this was a smart move.

I'll be able to tell much more with additional listening. The whole group is showing Tuesday to put ears on it.

albertporter

Owner
Sam,

John and Ralph play classical at these shows and you can always request. Ralph typically has boxes of LPs, titles that relieve the ear after three days of audiophile material.

albertporter

Owner
John Wolfe, my wife and I just got back from dinner. We tried to get John to stay in town until tomorrow, but after CES and a side trip to California he wanted to get back on the road.

John runs Classic Audio Reproductions. He's a great guy, usually shows with Ralph from Atma-Sphere at THE Show.

albertporter

Owner
FedEx tracking shows it will be delivered to me tomorrow.

albertporter

Owner
Sam,

Yes, original NOS Studer heads and the switch is a Studer part designed to fit on the head block.

I got word that crossover will be finished this afternoon, they are going to call me for credit card data so maybe it will ship.

albertporter

Owner
My custom Dali tube crossover is getting a performance upgrade via Bill at Music Technology.

My sincere thanks to Audience for getting the Auracaps out in a rush, these 400 volt beauties will bypass the original electrolytic and clean up and speed up what I already had.

I'm putting in some new wire, replacing a bunch of resistors with Mills wire wound and going with Cardas Rhodium RCAs this round. I'll post comments on sound once it's back in and warmed up.

Upgrade number two, my Studer is with Steve in TN, getting an archival playback upgrade so it can do both half and quarter track at the press of a button. Both playback EQ and all 4 speeds get tweaked so all is well with both formats.

I'll be able to play those London 7.5 IPS quarter tracks and all those great Jazz titles I scored on Ebay over the years while retaining the ability to properly play 15IPS (or 30 IPS) master dubs.

albertporter

Owner
Yes, I'm at CES, I thought the sluggish economy would kill attendance but today was a madhouse of activity.

albertporter

Owner
System edited: Added EPA 100 tone arm, updated image of Allnic H 3000, added Allnic HT 2500 text and image.

albertporter

Owner
Keith, congratulations on the Dali Megalines. As you can see from my recent posts the aftermarket crossover is necessary for this speaker (in my opinion).

The first of these tube crossovers was shortly after I purchased the Megaline 5 years ago. Since then the crossover has been replaced or modified three additional times and is currently in the hands of a tech with hope of extracting a bit more.

Short answer is there are two options, you can get what I currently own from Tom Tutay as soon as he can supply, or wait to see if I can get more out of the design before proceeding.

In any case none of this goes through me. I've kept this project open source, meaning it's between you and the builders with nothing coming to me except thanks. One of my good friends is a reviewer for Absolute Sound and he has this same crossover but set up for his Magneplanar.

A lot of great speakers have passed through his system in the last couple of years but his Maggies with this crossover have held the lead spot. Like the Dali, the Maggie is a great speaker but you have not heard it until you rid it of the stock crossover.

albertporter

Owner
Sam, system is working but poor sound with borrowed stock factory crossover. Better than no music but as I posted on 15th, disappointing performance.

Your question about balanced, I think that's the way it's accomplished. You need to contact Dali and find out if that's what you want.

The Allnic is balanced and works well, I'm running the Allnic H3000 phono into the L4000 line via balanced and also my Studer A810 MK2.

I'll post results of additional crossover upgrade if I'm able to accomplish that.

albertporter

Owner
Sam, That's good to know. My local guy is a specialist on Ampex ATR but a bit over his head on the Studer A810.

That being said, he found three or four problems including some bad caps on the mother board and got that baby running. However, my custom tube crossover is shipped off for possible upgrade and my system is crap, I will not be able to tell about Studer performance until it's returned.

Truth is, I forgot how bad the stock Dali crossover really is. With the stock I have no texture, no warmth and pale dynamics. It's just amazing how much effect that one piece has on the entire system.

albertporter

Owner
Wish I could be there, I know we discussed me visiting but that's too soon after CES and probably better if you have only one visitor at a time.

The Studer came home today, not sure if it's working perfect or not. Maybe put some tape through it tomorrow night.

If I have any more issues I would appreciate the name of your tech, we discussed but did not swap that info.

albertporter

Owner
Steve, I should have added. Please come back when Louis has his room put together and we can listen there, my place and maybe with Marty again.

By the next trip I hope to have both tables running, the Studer back from mods and the improved crossover in place.

albertporter

Owner
Steve,

I had a great time, Marty's system has improved double since I was last there. I hope to visit with you and listen. Maybe see Grellman too.

albertporter

Owner
It's still worth the trip to Vegas for THE Show, look on their site and you can get an idea of the quality of exhibitors already signed up. Typically there are things in rooms that are not listed on the web and they are sometimes the newest and most interesting.

If you spring for a CES badge there are literally more things to see than you can cover in the time allowed. RMAF is more fun, but CES is still the biggest and possibly the most important.

Listening conditions are far from ideal but there is no way a regular person will ever have an opportunity to see and hear this much high quality electronics in one spot.

albertporter

Owner
Anyone wanting to attend CES, you need to fill out an on line registration and provide a connection to consumer electronics.

Frankly, I can't think of any business that has absolutely no connection to electronics.

http://registration3.experient-inc.com/showCES101/Default.aspx

Unfortunately the deadline for free registration has passed but here's the link.

albertporter

Owner
Sam,

There are important exhibits at both shows, if you can register for a badge and get access to CES before they charge, I would go for the option of visiting both.

Click link:

http://myces.bdmetrics.com/BrowseSuppliers.aspx

albertporter

Owner
Sam,

CES is much more difficult than RMAF and is not open to the public. If you plan on going sign up soon with a name somehow associated with electronics trade and get your badge. If you wait, there is a pretty good charge, $100.00 if I remember correctly.

I have a car rented, I think a must for Vegas. Getting a cab (for me) winds up being more expensive than a rent car. Some years when the weather turned bad it was impossible to get a cab to go to dinner.

There are two venues in Vegas, the formal CES show and the public oriented THE Show. You can get into THE Show easily, CES is the one I'm suggesting move on now if you plan on seeing anything under their roof.

albertporter

Owner
Are your working CES?

Yep, Audiogon has me covering the event. It seems like only a few months since the last show, certainly not like a year has passed.

I have a room downtown this time to save a few bucks and it's nice not being too close to the strip, the auto traffic there is unbelievable.

It will be interesting to see attendance figures for both exhibitors and visitors this year with the bad economy. In any case there are always too many rooms and too much cool equipment to see and photograph before the last day of the show.

albertporter

Owner
I don't guess the Amplitrex is any worse than a laptop computer, I say go for it.

If you come to listen again bring an opera and we'll do a test of the Supreme and other cartridges. By then I should have two MK3 Technics with dual arm boards and all four of my arms mounted and running.

albertporter

Owner
Sam,
I love the Supreme, as do lots of folks.

If you come to listen again I would love to play with the Amplitrex, just to see how it reads various tubes compared to my Hickok 752.

albertporter

Owner
Sam,

I spoke to the chief engineer at Dali about the tube crossover several years ago. He was polite enough to listen to my idea and even commented that he liked tubes.

I probably should have answered with a humorous comment since you posted the smiley face, but too good an opportunity to tell the story about meeting Lars at Dali.

albertporter

Owner
Sam,

Tom told me he's done everything possible, and a wonderful job at that. I have the third evolution of the crossover if you count the one Jacob at Absolute Sound got for his speakers.

I think the circuit is correct but perhaps more can be done with the power supply or the chokes. The EQ is correct and It already has the best caps and resistors.

I have zero complaints with Tom or his work, just keeping an open mind to the possibility that another set of eyes may see an area for improvement.

It will go to my tech that rebuilds the Technics MK3s power supplies for me. He was originally with Conrad Johnson and is genius with power supplies.

albertporter

Owner
11-28-09: Nrchy
Wow lots of changes since the last time I was there! Has the smoke cleared?

Hello Nate, I don't see you posting much at Audiogon these days but keep those political jokes coming via email.

I have not changed the system as much as some Audiogon members. Only my second pair of speakers in eighteen years and the VTL 750s must be six years in the system now.

Studer is new to me and turntable swaps, other than that I'm hoping for an upgrade on my Dali tube crossover but that is just in planning stage.

Any chance you're attending CES since you didn't go to RMAF this time?

albertporter

Owner
Hi Albert

I will be in town Dec11 through Dec 13 and staying with Marty to hear his system (BTW you did hear the Gothams at his house when I was there 2 years ago and you came by)

I will be stopping by to also hear Bflowers system so it is promising to be a fun weekend
Oneobgyn (System | Reviews | Answers)

Steve,

Good to hear from you. I should have read down to your post, you confirm I did hear the Gotham at Marty's home. I remembered the sub was large but did not know much about JL two years ago. Marty was really ahead of the curve buying back then.

If you have extra time call me up, I have a new number so email me and I'll forward that to you. Maybe we can get together.

albertporter

Owner
Albert, We haven't met, but we have spoken on the phone. If you are interested in hearing a pair of Gothams and a pair of F113's you may want to head out to Westlake. Marty (whom you know) has Gothams with Pipedreams speakers, and I recently replaced my REL Studio 3, with a pair of JL F113's with Wilson Alexandrias. Marty's room is huge and can accommodate the Gothams. My room is 24x17x11 and the F113's are plenty! I hate slow bass, and I think the F113's are near perfect. I have them crossed over very low as I have a full range speaker. However, one would be shocked at what one is missing down low. I think as the speakers inevitably get pulled out into the room to optimize their coherence, you lose some of the low end. Send a PM and perhaps we can help you with your decision.
Bflowers (System | Threads | Answers)

Thanks for the info, I've been to Marty's home and heard the Gotham there (I think it was there when I visited). His room is indeed large.

I have a room not much larger than your's, 17.5 (W) X 31 (L) X 12 (H) and suspect twin F-212s would be more than adequate. I called for tech support at JL and they seemed focused on the F-212 for my speakers.

albertporter

Owner
Sam,
You're welcome for a return engagement anytime.

The tube crossover we were enjoying may get an upgrade that delivers better dynamics and resolution. We'll see on that.

I would like to know how the dual single ended RCA Dali crossover works as a pair. Do you run with a special cable to make the RCA version balanced for your BAT, or do both single ended have to go to the factory for a conversion?

albertporter

Owner
Do post your results, I'm looking at either a pair of JL Audio Gotham or F-212s. Both highly rated. The Gotham is a few Hz deeper into the deepest bass, but the F-212 is reported to be smoother and transition more accurately into "fast" systems.

The Dali Megaline is definitely fast, it's large drivers are only 6.5", so I'm leaning toward the F-212s.

albertporter

Owner
Winger
First post to this thread.
I have the Dali MS5's with McIntosh amp and preamp.
My challenge is trying to decide as to sub placement.

Winger, funny you should be asking this question, I've been considering the same thing. I wondered if my Megaline would perform better if I took some deep bass load off the drivers and crossed over into a couple of really good quality subs.

I've been thinking about putting between the Megaline so the woofer is not next to the ribbons. I know that's not an issue with the Dali you have but many of the problems with subs are overloading the corners of the room. Pulling the sub out a bit and between the speakers might be effective.

albertporter

Owner
By-the-way, I now have your original MegaLine III active crossover. Perhaps, if the celestial bodies align, we'll be listening to our DALI's powered by four BAT VK-150SE's this Thanksgiving weekend! I hope my aural memory stimulates reflection of my reference experience via Chez Porter. :-)

Hello Sam, good to hear from you. I enjoyed your company very much, glad you have good memories of the session.

Do you have my original Dali transistor crossover or my original tube unit?

albertporter

Owner
Lokie, Once you get your room finished I hope you will post at Audiogon or at least send me images so I can see it.

Are you doing traps or diffusion?

albertporter

Owner
Lokie,

My room designer primarily does recording studios and commercial facilities, so getting his Whisper Walls contractor put me on target for a perfect install.

You might begin by contacting Whisper Walls for names of certified contractors in your area. Call a few for advice and get some pricing.

Below is a link to the company that did my design work. Some of his installs were done by my certified Whisper Walls contractor, it shows what's possible and might help with your planning.

http://www.rbdg.com/

albertporter

Owner
I have names and addresses if you hit a snag. We kept the samples under a kitchen counter and they are still tagged.

Did you find the Whisper Wall peoples site? It's a great system that holds the cloth away from the fiberglass and if you ever need to replace all or part of the fabric, the job only requires pulling out the old and tucking in the new with a special tool.

albertporter

Owner
Doug, Actually all surfaces in the room that look like sheetrock are cloth over acoustical treatment. There was a lot of thought in the design so this heavily treated room appears completely normal.

The area behind the speakers are RPG 734 and the side walls and vertical areas in the ceiling are all compressed fiberglass, the hard yellow colored stuff like in recording studios.

My wife and I began with about thirty acoustic cloth samples and worked down to the final choice. The runners up were Guilford Shagreen 3515, Guilford 224 White, Guilford FR701 Hobnail 2102 (color 654 Almond) and Guilford Belgrade 4052 091 Desert Sand.

All of the Guilford patters were pretty distinct, one would never mistake them for a sheetrock wall with texture and paint. What we wanted was a "stealth" material, a cloth that disappeared into the environment. That turned out to be made by DesignTex of New York, Shekel 3582-050, Sandstone color.

The cloth sits above the treatment so there is no color bleed through, held in place by a rail system called Whisper Walls. There is a razor thin crack every 72" or so, the maximum width of the acoustic cloth.

Thank you for the compliment of a "real" room, that was our ultimate goal. It worked so well that I have photos of my wife and young son laughing and dancing wildly to music from my speakers. On trips home from college John and his girlfriend sit with us for music or TV, it's everyone's favorite room in the house.

albertporter

Owner
Rich, it was nice to be able to put a face with the voice and email we trade. Sorry about the medical talk, but having a great doctor so near is much too tempting to pass :^).

Glad you enjoyed my software, the German master dubs are indeed superb, possibly the best I've heard.

Thank you for bringing the SACDs, good news is I got the cover plate back on the Oppo. Strange how it popped off, but I've seen computer CD drives with that design too.

I promise to look you up if I travel to Va. You're welcome back here anytime you can make it.

albertporter

Owner
The Dali Helicon is a passive crossover rather than active like mine. If you want to try some aftermarket parts I would consider buying a whole new crossover and leave yours intact so you can put it back stock if the project fails.

I've tried several times to upgrade passive crossovers and it's a much more difficult job than meets the eye. I don't know anyone who specializes in that, perhaps another Audiogon member does.

What do you not like about the Helicon 300? A lot of positive things have been written about it.

albertporter

Owner
Detlof, I plan on doing some more testing soon. My wife is sick and I've been the good husband :^), tending to her instead of cleaning LPs and listening.

The few LPs I ran through the Audio Desk look amazing, they actually have a different appearance than they do when cleaned with VPI or Odyssey, regardless of the solution used.

The amount of time required to apply Premier mould release cleaner, soak both sides of an LP with enzymes and follow with a couple of rinses is a pain. If the Audio Desk can do this while I'm out of the room, it will be a bargain, even if I have to do a final rinse.

albertporter

Owner
Aaron, I just got the Audio Desk set up and mixed the first batch of solution. I did clean one LP but have not played it yet.

It sure is nice to put an LP in and come back to a dry, ready to play record :^). Your idea about final rinse via the Odyssey is the same thing I thought. Wouldn't It would be wonderful if that wasn't needed?

only own a lowly VPI 16.5

Don't sell the 16.5 short, I had a 17F for about 10 years. The VPIs are probably still the best performance to cost ratio in LP cleaning.

albertporter

Owner
System edited: Added text and image of new Audio Desk automated LP cleaning machine from Germany.

albertporter

Owner
Unfortunately Mike Fremer is correct, the Ypsilon is word class and beyond what I expected. Unfortunately I don't have $65K lying around to buy them.

albertporter

Owner
System edited: Corrected images, corrected system description text.

albertporter

Owner
Breezer,

Sorry to be slow responding, I've had the Ypsilon phono and preamp here for demo and a mass of humanity visiting to hear it. We had a blast but it was a lot of work.

A customer called me wanting a Verito Z right after I got it installed. It had only five or ten hours on it and like all brand new cartridges had some rough spots. I sold mine to him and have not ordered another one. I spent all my money on a second pair of Allnic H-3000 and L-4000 in black, the color I originally wanted but only recently available.

There will be another version of the Verito with new cantilever and diamond and I will probably go to that one as it's supposed to be better.

I like the Dynavector XV-1s very much, nothing wrong with it in any way. I can only estimate based on my brief encounter that the Allnic is more powerful and dynamic but perhaps not as super controlled in the high frequencies as the DV.

My understanding from others who have more experience with fully broken in Verito Z cartridges is the tone arm is more critical than with Air Tight, DV and Koetsu. I'm thinking my SME 312s (Magnesium) may be too low mass for the Verito Z. I'll know more when I begin testing again. One of my closest friends in my group has the same version Verito and owns a Triplanar, Fidelity Research FR66s and the Audiocraft

I hope to get with him and begin a round of testing so we can get conclusive results on this. The good news is between his Dynavector XV1s and my Air Tight Suprema, Koetsu Coralstone and ZYX Omega G we have some great references to go against.

albertporter

Owner
System edited: Added Studer to equipment list. Added image of Studer and MK3. Added Oppo Blue Ray. Removed Pioneer Blue Ray. Corrected text.

albertporter

Owner
Thuchan (Eckart) I received my invoice from AAA in Germany, I have the three titles on order and should receive my 15IPS half track tapes in August.

Thank you for recommending this source for music.

albertporter

Owner
Thank you Eckart, I have written to them about the three titles I want.

albertporter

Owner
Detlof, I've auditioned all the songs on the offerings from AAA. One is "OK" and two are good.

Ok: Sabina Hank, "Blue Moments"
Good: Muthspiel/Johnson/Blade "Real Book Stories"
Good: Snow Owl Quartet, " The Snow Owl"

Some of these are at http://www.emusic.com/ and various other Euro music sites. Now I have to decide if I'll spend the money.

albertporter

Owner
Detlof,

Thank you, I finally figured it out. I agree about price and the artists being rather obscure.

albertporter

Owner
Hi Albert,

Was Steve's setup the Ampex 350's or 351's? That A810 I’m looking at is in great condition. Darn this hobby drives me crazy! Thx Roger

Steve's setup? You lost me. The Ampex I'm comparing sound to is the one I owned and posted in virtual systems here at Audiogon.

http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?vaslt&1151727938&view

I like what I'm hearing from my Studer A 810 even though it has some problems. My local tech is doing a few adjustments and I will report back, including what cost was to make it right.

albertporter

Owner
Detlof
Albert,
I also went to the German site Tuchan has mentioned and found nothing of the sort as well. I would be interested, should you strike lucky.

He was kind enough to provide this link, I still can't make it work but my German is poor.

http://www.aaanalog.de/index.php?context=page&id=Page:15

Otherwise I completely agree with what was said of tapes versus vinyl. I own a few more prerecorded tapes than Albert has mentioned, but can think of only one or two which clearly bettered good vinyl on my highly modded Goldmund Reference. In a shoot-out between shaded dogs of the Chicago Symphony with Reiner and RCA's early two channel tapes of the same takes I found it difficult to say which I liked better on my rig.

Detlof, exactly my point. If I could access original quality master dupes or original safety tapes (like the few I have) there would be a clear winner with tape.

Unfortunately it's typically copies of copies of copies for us amateurs when we shop for open reel music and that puts the quality about equal to LP.

I heard flat dub master copies one night until late with Steve Hoffman and his own collection of tapes. The associated equipment was far from state of the art as was the room (a CES set up).

Regardless of that, there was detail and dynamics that made you forget you were listening to a system, I could have sat there until dawn. Source is (almost) everything :^).

If I had access to that quality I would be obsessed with open reel rather than just enjoying it as another listening tool.

albertporter

Owner
I'm wondering what others thought/think about HiFI VHS compared to RTR?

I have a like new Sony SLV-R1000 that I bought to transfer old tape to hard drive but never used it for music.

I don't record, just listen to prerecorded music tape.

albertporter

Owner
I have a chance to p/u a Studer a810 also. I would be interested in hearing your thoughts on it's sound compared to others. I have never heard the A810,but I just took delivery of a Ampex 440-B machine and really like it. The bass is really powerful.

Roger, I have not heard an Ampex 440-B in many years, I remember it fondly as I sold them at one time.

Of the tape machines I've had in my system in recent years, the Studer is the best sounding. The one I just bought has some problems not disclosed by the Ebay seller (I should have bought at Audiogon).

If you can, get history on the machine and find a local tech that can work on them in case it needs tuning up. I'm probably going to be OK on the one I bought, a bit more money in it than I hoped, but I bought it for a bit less and now paying the price :^).

albertporter

Owner
Mapman,

I think that's a fair assessment of the three formats. I just wish tape of that quality was available for the price of a CD or LP. Second best wish would be high quality tape at high price but a library of music as diverse as LP and CD.

Pre recorded tape was amazing in the beginning, about late 1950s and into the 1960s when it was all 7.5 IPS and much at half track (or inline heads as some boxes were marked).

Not too long after that everything went to four track to save tape, and worst of all evolved into four track at 3.75 IPS. Really, the later tapes are pretty lame, I would take any LP in decent condition over them.

Just like everything else in the music business, the drive is for less quality and lower price to reach the masses. They have succeeded so well that many have now lost interest except for we crazy audiophiles :^).

albertporter

Owner
Mapman, regarding:
Albert, I was wondering how your phono rig compares to the reel to reel with modern SOTA recordings?

Very difficult to put into words. The two formats are so different and seldom does one have equal copies of each format to compare. The best tape I have is better than my turntable, especially with my new Studer A810 which is better sounding than my Ampex and Technics.

Even with what I've been able to assemble in the way of tape, it does not qualify as a "real" format. I'm a software junkie with thousands and thousands of LPs and would have a hard time culling out 50 titles, even with thorough searching.

My tape library consists of maybe 200 tapes and of those only about 6 are studio safety or master copy quality. Those few select tapes are better in many ways than my best LPs on my best turntable, particularly in dynamics and deep bass imaging.

I'm in love with my reel to reel, but paying $300.00 or $400.00 per tape to acquire the quality I'm describing (and you mentioned from your dealer) would take all the fun out listening. Too much money and too few choices available.

I have LPs that I paid .50 cents for that are absolutely incredible and a lot of the today's reissue LPs are stunning, accessible and reasonably priced by comparison.

So, to be fair, the answer is yes tape is better, with lots of provisions attached.

albertporter

Owner
Thuchan,

I went to the German site for Analog Audio Association but even with translation could not find the 9 Jazz tapes you mention. Would you please email me through Audiogon so we can discuss this?

albertporter

Owner
I just purchased a Studer A810 for my system. My Technics 1520 is having work done by JRF Magnetics and I'll compare when everything is in place.

Images of the Studer A810 soon.

albertporter

Owner
Thuchan, Very few people in the USA know about Auctorita and Pantheon.

I've been fortunate to have owned both Auctorita and Primus (but not Pantheon) in my system and they are wonderful products.

albertporter

Owner
The stand is my design and was custom built by Andron Precision. It's 6061 aluminum filled loosely with sandblasting silica. The finish was achieved by bead blasting and coating with Nextel, a specialty finish from Red Spot.

Red Spot discontinued this product and a German firm named Mankiewicz Coatings took it over, last I heard. Nextel was designed for space based telescopes and instruments to stop light scatter and reduce vibration without breaking down and getting into optics like regular paint.

albertporter

Owner
Art, You're welcome to visit anytime your schedule permits.

This coming Tuesday we gather as always and I have the Allnic run in pretty well now. I also have the new ZYX R1000 Omega G (gold coil) that just arrived, may have it running against the Air Tight Supreme and Koetsu Coralstone.

albertporter

Owner
I want to, I need to run it by the powers that be and see if that option is open. I would love to hear it in my system.

I have a long running love affair with ARC in general, although I have not had their equipment in my system in a long time.

albertporter

Owner
How 'bout dem Allnics? I Just put the phono stage in my rig. My oh my...

Joe, in addition to and I it appears Mike Lavigne has purchased one for his system. Allnic seems to be proving its appeal very well, especially considering how new it is.

albertporter

Owner
Microstrip,

I have no doubt the EMT models are superb, they are rim drive like Lenco and Garrard 301. Any of the systems that use rim or direct drive have the sense of limitless power behind the music, much like a preamp or power amp that has a huge power supply.

I may do a Garrard 301, I have a new batch of Panzerholz coming and with that new plinths can go into production. I'm thinking one more for my MK2 Technics, one for my newly acquired Technics MK3 and maybe do a Garrard.

albertporter

Owner
Regardless of the artificial light source, it won't be as easy on the eye as daylight.

Fire is probably our first artificial light source, but that's sort of new compared to the age of the sun :^).

I choose quartz halogen spots for my artificial light, twenty one of them in my listening room controlled by nine switches. Halogen is a no flicker, high contrast light source that makes listening at night pleasant too.

albertporter

Owner
Ed,

Thank you for looking at my thread.

During the day my listening room is filled with natural daylight due to the large skylights. Daylight is easy on the eye and ideal at various times of the day for photography.

I am very excited about my equipment changes. I never imagined moving move away from Aesthetix and Walker after I devoted a decade to tweaking and loving them.

albertporter

Owner
Jim,
Center position on the leather sofa is 14 feet from the speakers.

Speakers are 6 feet out from the wall, (measurements differ inside and outside edges due to toe in). Looking the other way, it's 14 feet behind listeners head to back wall.

You may not be aware, the entire space is specially constructed and sound treated on every surface. I mention this because the work is well hidden, looking pretty much like traditional sheet rock and paint (it's not).

I hope these measurements and explanation helps you see the room in real time, your right that photo's don't tell the story accurately as wide angle is needed due to tight space for shooting.

albertporter

Owner
Thank you John, that means a lot coming from you and knowing your excellent system.

I have a few more upgrades coming, including more modifications to the Technics MK3 and designs for more plinths in the works. If you want to duplicate my turntable it will be possible very soon.

albertporter

Owner
System edited: Added photo of custom Ebony platform with MK3 sitting on top. This was designed to match the work I did on the custom MK3 plinth

albertporter

Owner
Teres is a beautiful product. I would love to hear the direct drive model against what I have. It will probably never happen though.

albertporter

Owner
Should have responded before now. I appreciate the kind words, look forward to meeting again in Canada. Hope I get to cover the show again next year.

albertporter

Owner
John, I really enjoyed food and drinks with you guys. Montreal is a beautiful city, even in the rain. I wish I could have stayed a week more so I could take in more of the city.

You were way ahead of the curve on the Allnic, I'm just glad to be on the train instead of still watching from the station :^). We all discover things at different rates and times. Thank goodness for Audiogon for shortening the wait.

albertporter

Owner
Gersimon, you, John and the others made my first trip to Montreal an absolute joy. Did you see the pics? There's a link on the front page here at Audiogon.

Interesting comments about the Dynavector arm and Luster arm. I know the interface between arm and cartridge is mechanical and a deal breaker if the two don't match.

David is sending me a tonearm for trial, I know nothing more but looking forward to hearing it with the Verito Z.

I just got word that my Allnic AT2500 tube step up is nearly ready to ship.

Word on the street is this is the hot set up in the Asian market although at this moment it's hard to imagine an upgrade from the pair I have.

Perhaps it will be like your evolution from the (remarkable) L1500 to the L4000, you must hear it to understand.

albertporter

Owner
Sonofjim,

Albert,
It appears the H3000/L4000 are going to be keepers for you currently. The review on 6 moons of the L4000 says it's acoustically dead silent but that the unit itself emits a transformer hum.

Both Allnic units are dead quite acoustically and electrically. The L4000 does emit a mechanical hum when switched on (about the same as my Aesthetix did). After a minute or two the hum goes away (again, same as my Aesthetix did).

As you have noted, these two are my new reference and I’m happier than I've been in years.

albertporter

Owner
If the Verito Z manages to displace the Dynavector XV-1S it will be the bargain of the century.

I agree with your assessment:
some cuts sounded amazing on the Verity Z even with less than 10 hours on it

I didn't miss that when I listened, I'll keep putting hours on the Verito Z and see where it goes. The problem I hear is not big, it's just in a region that I'm incredibly intolerant of.

Unfortunately that's a common trait in high performance audio products with little or no break in time.

albertporter

Owner
Mike, I have a long way to go to reach 25-30 hours. I guess the comments by others that it was magic out of the box may not apply, or perhaps the factory put a few hours on those before shipping?

Don't get me wrong. I like the Verity, it shows great promise but my other two cartridges are pretty much limit of the art and at least one (the Air Tight Supreme) is probably fully broken in and is a tough contender.

My Koetsu is still short of total break but It too is remarkable. I have the Verity spinning right now with amps off. Perhaps this next week I'll be closer to where you are on break in.

albertporter

Owner
Mapman, based on the description provided by you and Montepilot, it looks like I need to search out the Musical Heritage Society label. There seems to be an unending supply of hidden gens in the LP world.

albertporter

Owner
Montepilot, so the SME 312S did not work well with the earlier Verito? David at Hammertone thinks a tonearm with more mass than the SME 312S might be needed and he too mentioned the Triplanar.

I looked up the specifications on the Triplanar and it's less mass than the SME, so comments are confusing. I've owned two Triplanar arms, both much older models and I'm sure many upgrades since those versions.

One friend in my audio group just mounted his Dynavector XV1S in his SME 312S and said the sound is better than in his Triplanar and any other arm he's had it in. Difficult to know what's going on with all the variables.

I probably have only 2 to 4 hours on my Verito as it just arrived. I'll continue with break in and see how it progresses.

albertporter

Owner
Montepilot, thank you for your contribution, great hearing that the Verity Z is making such great sound in your system.

A few questions, did your Verito Z sound bright in the high frequencies when brand new? How many hours before you heard sound as you describe.

albertporter

Owner
Hello Peter,

Coralstone is the best Koetsu I've ever heard and one of the top two or three cartridges I've ever heard. It does not sound like the typical Koetsu, it has very deep and powerful bass and great high frequencies. I still prefer the Air Tight Supreme over all others and the Allnic is too new to know how it will shake out.

I listened to the Allnic today for a couple more hours, it's high frequencies are very rough right now, I'm told to not even try to listen before 25 hours and it has nowhere near that right now.

albertporter

Owner
System edited: Replaced image of Allnic Verito Z cartridge with my own photography.

albertporter

Owner
Peter, Come on! Seriously, if travel brings you this way I would love to see you again.

Big changes in my system and all very positive. My new Allnic cartridge arrived this morning and it's beautiful, I need to take photos and post in this thread before I mount it up.

Hope you get to hear the Allnic preamp and phono, they change the game completely.

albertporter

Owner
No problem, I'll let you and everyone else know how the Verito Z sounds when the replacement arrives.

albertporter

Owner
Montepilot,

I only recently mounted the Verito as my MK3 was just returned from service. When I listened to it this AM, one channel was out. A new one is on the way, perhaps the ultra fine internal leads were damaged.

I have damping in the trough of the 312S that's mounted on my MK2, but I never had success using it. No matter how little I applied, it was too much. I looked at the SME "paddle" and it's literally a blunt screw. With the damping fluid so thick, it's like applying a wad of damping the first contact between paddle and fluid.

I have plans to someday remove the paddle and have the end ground to a sharp point like the Walker uses.

As for anti skate, I run virtually zero. The knob on mine is turned half way between off and the word "Anti." The word "Anti" marks the beginning of the turn on cycle, so this must be between a sixteenth and eighth of a gram.

albertporter

Owner
Aaron, I have images of the H3000, L4000 and Verity cartridge in with my system component (top of this page).

I may shoot new photos for my PFO review but for the time being these are all I have.

There are a few other images at the importers website
here

albertporter

Owner
Gregadd, Thanks for the compliment, Allnic has been around awhile but I completely missed it. I consider myself lucky to have found it while it's still reasonably priced.

albertporter

Owner
Mikelavigne,

Steve Dobbins (Vetterone) said he joined your listening party. Wish I could have been there for the comparison. I got my Allnic cartridge mounted and tweaked yesterday and putting a few hours on it as I write this. Maybe we can talk when things calm down a bit.

albertporter

Owner
Hello Pedrillo.

I had the latest and best models from Aesthetix, the Io and Callisto Eclipse, along with the Allnic H-3000 and Allnic L-4000 to listen to. Also on loan was Einstein "The Tube" line stage and (both) their matching phono stages, single ended and balanced.

I've had several other phono and line stages here over the last year or so, many of them very famous brands but the Allnic is the fist to perform so well that after only one week, I sold the Eclipse Aesthetix after more than ten years of dedication to that brand.

I'm going to write a review for PFO on the Allnic phono and preamp as soon as I'm certain I'm hearing all it can do. It displaced everything else I've ever owned two weeks ago yet it continues to improve every few days.

One member of my group is a reviewer for Dagogo, he ordered after one session at my home. Two other members have ordered or about to do so. This is the first piece of equipment that's received universal acceptance among my very diverse group of listeners.

Yesterday my MK3 Technics was returned from service, so the Allnic Verito Z can now go on it to play against the Koetsu Coralstone and Air Tight Supreme.

albertporter

Owner
System edited: Removed Aesthetix Io and Callisto Eclipse for Allnic H3000 and H4000, corrected comments and images. Corrected text for changes in interconnect, corrected text on Allnic Verito Z cartridge, corrected text to match power cord changes.

albertporter

Owner
Hello everyone I'm in Montreal at the Canadian audio festival and will be bringing home photos of all the rooms to be posted at Audiogon.

There are lots of music lovers here and good sound in several rooms, I'm looking forward to the next few days of music and fun.

albertporter

Owner
Thank you Applebook.

I had all the caps replaced, voltage regulators updated and everything tuned to new specs on my MK3. I've been without my MK3 for many weeks. I just received notification it will be returned to me next week. I'm excited to see if it performs better than before.

albertporter

Owner
System edited: Added Allnic Verito Z cartridge to component list. This is my third MC cartridge for the system.

albertporter

Owner
Syntax, perfectly put, I agree with you.

I love the Odyssey, it provides the best cleaning I've experienced, it's almost as quite as a turntable and the workmanship is superb.

albertporter

Owner
This from Audiogon forum thread asking about phono stages. I want a record here in case that thread is deleted later.
03-22-09: Lewm
Swampwalker, Just wanted to be certain I understood you. Did you mean to say that Albert is auditioning the Allnic product(s)? Thanks.
Lewm (Threads | Answers)

The answer is yes. I have the H-3000 phono stage and L-4000 line stage. Last week I had both of the Allnic units, the Einstein The Tube and the Einstein balanced phono.

I also still have Aesthetix Eclipse Io and Callisto. It will take time to sort this out, I'll be posting on my system thread as I learn more.

albertporter

Owner
Pearlaudiohi,

I just re-read what I posted, hope that did not come off a rude.

My comment was intended to express the fact that both LP cleaners are EXCELLENT. I think the original Keith Monks is back in production, and the Odyssey RCM was actually by the German distributor of Keith Monks and an attempt to offer a machine of greater quality without having to import from GB.

The VPI 17F remains the killer cleaning machine for the dollar. It's within maybe 20% of the perfection of the RCM, but thousands of dollars less money.

My complaint with the VPI is noise level, I had to wear ear protection if I was cleaning more than one LP. Like all things high end audio, the last few percent come at a high price.

Thank you for the gracious compliment about my attention to detail, likely a result of my degree in fine art and years of advertising photography where detail meant the difference between getting a job or not :^).

albertporter

Owner
Pearlaudiohi,

A friend in my group owns the original Keith Monks, It seems to be more like the RCM than not. I don't think it's worth arguing which is better, but rather which is available and for what price.

albertporter

Owner
The Allnic line stage, L-4000 arrived late Friday evening, I let it come up to room temperature before music. Now with maybe 70 hours, it's beginning to sound good.

Obviously a great match for the Allnic H-3000 phono that I received the week before. I suspect with all the point to point wire and transformers this will be a long process.

albertporter

Owner
Aaron,

Aesthetix is not ruled out, I'm just wanting to return to the original Aesthetix chassis but with the new hot Eclipse parts inside. This option became available only a week or so ago.

In the mean time, I'm testing some competitors preamps and phono stages if for no other reason than see where everyone has evolved since my ten years (or so) with Aesthetix.

albertporter

Owner
Sonofjim,

The Allnic is playing as I type this. It is certainly a contender at this moment. As time accumulates and I match it with it's partner preamp I will know for sure.

The preamp is supposed to be equally good, it's called the L-4000. I hope to have the L-4000 in the next week or so.

albertporter

Owner
Microstrip, maybe the ARC REF 3, I'll know in a few weeks.

albertporter

Owner
Should add here, the Allnic phono has cleared customs in LA, I may get to hear it next week. The preamp is to follow.

albertporter

Owner
Peter, at 80 hours the PC-1 should be showing you pretty much what it's capable of. I agree with your description of it's performance. The Mint should provide an upgrade, depends on how close you got it the first time.

After checking set up it would be great to read your impressions of difference with and without the famous SME dynamic spring.

As for Koetsu versus Supreme, I will likely own both for the foreseeable future. My MK3 is being upgraded (electrically) and until its returned I can't do all the tests I would like to do.

albertporter

Owner
Einstein, Allnic, Audio Research and possibly others.

albertporter

Owner
John,

My system is in turmoil right now, not a good time to listen. I just sold my two reference Aesthetix pieces and testing at least two other brands, maybe three other brands.

If you were coming every week so you could keep abreast of all the changes, It would be great. Walking in right now would be confusing, the new pieces are not broken in and I've already done three tube swaps.

Regarding the SME, I use the Wally and drop the stylus (literally) into the scratch at lead groove and run out position on LP. I work until it hits both perfectly.

I set my Koetsu almost level and the Air Tight "very" slightly low in the rear with each tracking at their ideal. So far looks like 1.98 for Koetsu and 2.02 - 2.04 for Air Tight Supreme.

I run almost zero anti skate with both cartridges and VTA (mentioned above) is on medium thickness LP by ear.

albertporter

Owner
Justin, no offense taken. You're right about the Walker, I did love it and still respect is as always. Just found a way to move on.

I never had the opportunity to hear the Forsell, no way for me to compare.

albertporter

Owner
Justin, "Got rid of" the Walker makes it sound like I disposed of something. The Walker is one of the greatest turntables in the world and the best I ever owned, until I moved into the direct drive camp.

There is a revolution toward rim and direct drive because of the sound those systems deliver. What does not change is the importance of plinth, Isolation, tonearm, cartridge and care in doing the set up.

Business wise I'm still doing commercial and advertising photography, just finished a job for FSLIC, but overall has slowed down. I sell some at Audiogon and my wife has a secure spot at Southwest Airlines. All together we manage but looking forward to John's college graduation next year so that expense goes away.

albertporter

Owner
If you listen with spring + weight and weight alone for track force, PLEASE post results.

I love the PC-1, it would be valuable to know how it reacts. I doubt the Air Tight Supreme would respond much different. Could affect my decision to try a V12

albertporter

Owner
Peterayer, I've owned two Triplanar arms, three Graham arms, the Air Tangent 10B, Dynavector 505 and many others. The SME 312S is as good as anything I've owned and like all the others listed, each brings a bit different sound to the mix.

What most people don't understand about the SME is the rack and pinion adjustment below the bearing. With that system the user can change the mounting distance to stylus point to the thousandths of an inch.

The same can be accomplished with slots in a headshell, but the SME has enough slack (without slots) to twist the cartridge to best alignment. I say this, based on the three cartridges I've used. It's possible other cartridges may not work so well with the SME system, I just don't know.

The SME V12 looks pretty much like the 312S except the headshell is not removable, the counterweight has a lever to loosen the weight for quick adjustment and I think it combines spring plus weight to achieve track force.

The idea of quick weight change on a tonearm that has no provision for quickly swapping cartridges seems strange, perhaps I'm missing something. The arm that would benefit is one where the user changes out the headshell and cartridge frequently.

The 9" SME arms are generally thought to be excellent but suffer as all 9" arms with additional track error and the spring system to control track force is generally thought to be worse sounding than weight alone.

That leaves the contact point between the removable headshell, compared to direct connection with the V12. Here I assume the direct connection is superior but have no way of testing. What I do know is the stock tone arm cable does not sound good and swapping for good aftermarket swamps any difference the headshell brings to the party.

For set up the two systems that get this really right is Mint and Wally. I have the Wally universal mirror that has provision for SME 12".

albertporter

Owner
I think you are right on track. If you set the turntable well away from the speakers you can get by with no suspension and the heavy plinth you describe not only improves attack, it reduces the "jitter' that frequently spoil the sound of many direct drive systems.

The platform my MK3 turntable sits on is made from 11 layers of material. More than half are Baltic Birch but there are also two layers of GE Lexan, a quarter inch sheet of 6061 aircraft aluminum, bass wood and a sheet of hard Maple. The exterior is completely wrapped with solid Ebony lumber, matching my MK3 plinth.

It has the same design, shape and finish as the MK3 too. It makes a beautiful package.

albertporter

Owner
Idos,

I realized I did not respond to your comments about your plinth. The materials you listed (birch ply, acrylic and aluminum) are some of the same as my Wenge plinth and my isolation platform. I have not done photos of the isolation platform but will soon.

The Garrard 401 is a great table. One of the guys in my group has a 301 with Triplanar arm and Koetsu Coralstone. His Garrard and Technics both have custom Panzerholz plinths we designed and built.

I would rate performance equal but different for what each is able to bring to the musical presentation.

albertporter

Owner
Idos, try contacting this guy, he frequently has SME arms for sale here at Audiogon.

http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?anlgtnrm&1238441557&/SME-IV-mint-condition

albertporter

Owner
Albert,
Your testimony on the SP 10mk3 is pretty convincing. How hard is it for a guy to find one of those and if it's popular why doesn't Technics reissue it?

It's a remarkable table, they can be found but there never were as many of them as the popular MK2. I think you would be surprised at how good the MK2 is. For the money it may be the highest performance value there is.

Saskia is of interest to me, I have not heard one in my system. If I ever have the opportunity and it's better than what I have I would likely buy it.

Also, I heard a rumour that you are working on a review of the Allnic H3000 phonostage. If this is true, how soon shall we be looking for that?

That's just at talking stage, I don't even have it yet. It would be the H3000 phono and L4000 line stage. I actually have no idea what either sounds like or where it fits in the high end market.

I'm currently listening to Einstein The Tube and their solid state fully balanced phono. Lots to like about it, some things it does better than anything I've ever had in my system. I'm still struggling with getting weight and warmth so it competes with Aesthetix for musicality.

albertporter

Owner
Thank you.

It's funny how some people prefer one plinth over the other. When I first got the Wenge plinth I thought it was perfect. Now that I have the Ebony, I prefer it's look.

albertporter

Owner
I think CES hotel rooms are such a poor venue, demos are done with audiophile (or only great sounding) recordings in hope of decent sound.

The problem is, by the end of the second day I'm ready to choke anyone who spins Diana Krall again.

albertporter

Owner
I somehow missed that, wonder what room they were in?

albertporter

Owner
My response will likely appear strange because the three things that stand out are strictly because I have not seen or heard them until this CES.

King Sound Electrostatic speakers (China)
Magico V2 speakers
Ocean Way Monitor System

The V2 is the "bargain" in Magicos line at $18K. Expensive but perhaps worth it, I simply did not have time to spend with it.

The King Electrostatic is about $7k, making it a true bargain. Workmanship was excellent as was style. The sound seemed a bit thin during my short stay in the room but who knows what they are capable of given the chance.

The Ocean Way system is possibly the most dynamic speaker I've ever heard. It comes with outboard electronic crossovers and amps, complete for about $36K. These are very large speakers, bigger than Sound-Lab and Alexandria X-2 but not very pretty. A professional studio speaker to be sure. The Venetian hotel room was not a good spot for these, they overpowered the space at almost every volume level.

Only other impression, this CES was among the worst ever for demo music. The same four or five tired (and safe) audiophile recordings were used in many rooms, and that drives me crazy.

albertporter

Owner
Mtkhl567, stressed is an appropriate description.

I captured 1015 images of rooms and product at the Venetian for Audiogon, perhaps a new speed and stress record? Hopefully some of the images will be available for viewing this week or next. That's a lot of files to edit and load onto their server.

Each evening after the show, I was hanging out with Atma-Sphere, Triplanar, Purist and Classic Audio, telling stories and laughing to relieve stress. We consumed quite a bit of Scotch since we had no access to your Cognac.

albertporter

Owner
Lohanimal,

Many people prefer the EMT rigs totally stock, just as delivered from the factory. I have not had enough EMT experience to voice an opinion.

I would however, love to read your experience after testing.

albertporter

Owner
Jeffrey, there was one fellow that owned a Micro Seiki RX5000, he was part of my group a few years ago before we lost touch with each other.

I heard it several times in his system, but not against another table, so no way to know what it brought to the mix.

albertporter

Owner
Lohanimal, that table is limited only by what you do with tonearm and cartridge.

Fcrowder (Fred), call my cell if you can't find me. I'm assigned full time at the Venetian but plan on going over to THE Show afterward and look up friends doing demo's there.

albertporter

Owner
Lohanimal,

This all began nearly 5 years ago, my Lenco showed me what a rim drive / direct drive could do in my system and peaked my interest in the technology.

http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?vbudg&1082337040

I kept thinking about my old Thorens TD124 and the loss in dynamics when I went with belt drive. The Lenco woke up old memories, I wanted to experiment and find out if the relationship to performance was the drive system or not.

When I found my Technics MK2, I built the best plinth I could come up with and fitted it with SME 312S and Air Tight PC-1.

http://cgim.audiogon.com/i/vs/i/f/1225521606.jpg

My Walker was fitted with a Koetsu Jade Platinum and an Air Tight PC-1 on the Technics. During this time the PC-1 got credit for making the Technics the winner. To remove the variable, I purchased a second Air Tight PC-1 for my Walker.

I made every possible adjustment and played every kind of music in my library but In the end, I preferred the Technics.

Finally, Lloyd Walker himself flew in and spent a full day updating my Walker with every new part and tweaked this Black Diamond to perfection before I made my final decision. After Lloyd left, I and my group spent another month or two listening to be sure nothing was being overlooked.

Speed accuracy, drive, dynamics and signal to noise was so superior with the Technics MK2 I not only sold the Walker, I bought a Technics MK3.

http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?vaslt&1227334719

Every person in my group and all but one visitor that sat down to this comparison bought a Technics MK2 or MK3. At this moment I believe the count is eleven Technics converts.

If you look at Mike Lavigne's thread, you will see he has purchased a Garrard 301, Technics SP10 MK2 and Technics SP10 MK3. I heard his system a few weeks ago and eagerly await his report on comparison between the Rockport and Technics MK3.

albertporter

Owner
I think about Ronnie a lot, I keep expecting to go to CES and see him, but we know that cannot be.

I recently received some small color prints of Erin, Ronnie's baby girl. I say baby girl but she is 12 now and growing up fast. Tom sent them to me, I always see a little bit of Ronnie when I look at this pretty girls face.

As for Tom's work, the Telefunken are the best in that position in my opinion. The 12SX7 are better than 12SN7 but nothing like the differences in the 12AX7 position. If you do experiments with the 6AX5 position let me know the results.

albertporter

Owner
Excellent, hope you are enjoying your new phono.

I had the Tutay phono stage in my system and one thing for sure, it responds to tube swaps in a big way. I don't know what Tom sent you but there are a lot of tube brands and types, so you have a lot of experimentation in store once its broken in.

I don't know if you've experimented with isolation footers, I never got spikes to work but got stunning results with hard footers like Mod Squad. I would be interested to read your findings if you experiment.

albertporter

Owner
Bob, looks like John addressed your question. I agree with John that the Dali's appear to do deep bass very well, I just don't have any way of measuring.

I think you posted somewhere here at Audiogon that you had +6 DB at 20 HZ, forgive me if I got that wrong. In any case, if your bass is up at 20 HZ and mine is down (any at all), that would go a long way in explaining differences in subsonic issues.

albertporter

Owner
Good test outlined by Bob of Ptmconsulting. That being said, the issue you have may be outside that test or even my experience based on comments you made in the other thread here at Audiogon.

I just returned from a visit with Mike Lavigne, another gentleman who has his system posted here at Audiogon.

His system employs four 15" woofers (capable of bass below 20 HZ), and powered buy huge internal dedicated amps, I believe they are about 1000 Watts. After several days of listening with his Rockport, Garrard 301 and Technics SP10 turntables, we experienced no odd woofer movement, rumble or other subsonic issues. Several times during the session we sat VERY near the speakers and played at very loud levels with the turntables sitting a few feet away.

I will say, all three turntables were sitting on Grand Prix stands, a stand that is phenomenal at reducing resonance and feedback, so it's very possible they were contributing to the isolation we were enjoying.

The entire time we were there, the grills were off the Evolution Acoustics MM3's and we were staring at the speakers the entire time. Mike's equipment is solid state and I'm certain it has no subsonic filters or any type of tone controls.

I wish I had more to offer, I'm stumped as to what this issue is with your system. I wish we lived nearer each other, I would visit and see if I could learn by going though a session with you.

albertporter

Owner
Microstrip, I've not owned an SME 30 nor had one in my home.

I will say, there's a distinct difference in sound between any belt drive and direct or rim drive. The "direct connection" sound is addictive for me and of the hundreds of a belt drive tables I've heard, they all miss this connection.

I'm not saying belt drive can't be stunning, my Walker was stunning. It's just that direct drive moves vinyl closer to my 15 IPS 1/2 track masters and safety tapes, which are my standard.

albertporter

Owner
Hi Albert, When you say that you have EQ for the speakers, I assume it is a Linkwitz Transform type of device? Similar to my Marchand Bassis?

Bob

The Dali Megaline uses an EQ system that's tailored to the cabinet, ports and woofer to maximize low frequency performance. The twenty four 6.5" woofers deliver some musical information all the way up to 10K. I'm sure it's very rolled off by then but the idea is to get the woofers and ribbon to be integrated into a seamless, full bandwidth soundstage.

The problem with the system is to keep the woofers fast they are rear ported and resonance point is about 35 Hz. Getting bass below 35Hz requires EQ and since the Megaline uses an electronic outboard crossover when delivered from the factory, all we had to do was reverse engineer it.

We choose the tube route, following the exact curve, gain and EQ as designed by Dali. Our crossover is four boxes and weighs 100 pounds, the stock unit was 8 pounds and used OP amps and chips powered by a wall wart.

Just building the tube crossover and replacing the stock unit was a revelation and honestly, without the aftermarket crossover I would have sold the Megaline due to disappointment with overall tonal balance and bass performance.

The crossover I use now has an adjustable gain at the turnover point and a pentode output stage that powers the bass separately. The high frequencies on our unit is passive, unlike the original.

So, the bass not only has slam and dynamics, it goes deeper and the gain can be adjusted to .5 DB increments so that if the speaker is a few inches off from perfect gain (based on distance from wall and room gain), it can be trimmed.

Notice that with this system the high frequency ribbon is independently driven and has no idea what the bass is doing. I have four VTL 750's (3000 watts) driving each section separately.

Bass is excellent, probably does not perform at extremely low frequencies as some speakers, but even classical pipe organ makes a good showing and for the music I listen to 98% of the time it's all the bass I can stand.

albertporter

Owner
There is no other noise, otherwise. when no lp is playing the system is dead quiet. Wouldn't feedback be there even when no lp is playing?
Though I do understand that when a lp is playing it is a different story.

Bob, you might have a situation that's so different from my experience that I don't have an answer. The first thing I would do is cue the cartridge to the LP with the platter not spinning.

Tap around on the table, floor, platform and plinth with the volume set to the same listening level you enjoy music. I think that would be an interesting experiment to start with.

albertporter

Owner
Albert, I see that you do not have any subs in your system and according to the Dali website the -3db point of your speakers is 35hz. As Dan-ed said that he too has rolloff from his speakers and thinks that perhaps this is why he does not have rumble or subsonic issues. Perhaps you are experiencing the same thing?

My Dali has an aftermarket tube crossover with adjustable EQ and gain so my speakers are not necessarily restricted to that limit. I'm getting bass in the 20 HZ region and many say the best bass they've ever heard.

When I attended the high end audio show in Sweden I spoke at length to the engineer on the Megaline project. He said they are capable of bass to 19 HZ.

Before the Megaline I owned Sound Lab Ultimate Ones for 15 years, they are good to 22 HZ. I had no issue with them causing rumble or subsonic problems either.

Part of the time I owned the Sound Lab I had twin Fosgate 14" subwoofers (down firing) and 600 watt transistor amps on each one. No problem with them either.

I don't think my lack of having this problem is related to that. If I lived near you I could find the problem and fix it, I guarantee it. I still don't think it's rumble, but something wrong in the set up.

I would change my mind if I find there is something wrong with your turntable or a model that I know nothing about, especially if VERY old.

albertporter

Owner
Nrchy (Nate), thanks for the offer, I would like to see finished images, are you not putting them up at Audiogon?

albertporter

Owner
I should have said, agree with Fred and Mapman.

albertporter

Owner
You say you do not have any problems in this area. My question would be if you remove your clamp and mat do you then experience subsonic or rumble on a "naked' and unweighed platter. Or is it still silent?

Bob

Neither clamp nor mat affect effect rumble in my system. I have zero rumble and cannot remember any modern tables that have had that problem.

Granted there are signal to noise differences among the very best turntables but even with a top audio system it's not typically something you worry about.

I've experienced small signal to noise difference among the last half dozen turntables I've owned and although my current MK3 is the quietest one ever, I had to live with it to appreciate the difference.

Maybe we should speak by phone, you may be chasing a feedback or resonance issue.

albertporter

Owner
Mapman, Thank you.

I have been assigned coverage at CES, the high end show at the Venetian. I'll do my best to meet your expectations of my ability.

albertporter

Owner
Fcrowder,

Thank you Fred for that vote of confidence. I'm stalled out at the moment with testing as my Aesthetix Io and Callisto are back at the factory to be converted to Eclipse models. As you say, change something and it resets the clock to zero.

Bob, regarding:

12-10-08: Acoustat6
Hi Albert, Thanks for the response. So you always use a clamp or weight with a mat? What do you think contributes most to dealing with subsonics and rumble? Or for that matter what causes this?

I guess I'm not the person to ask, I've not had rumble problems in so long, I can't even relate to the issue. The turntables I mention, the ones that span the last 15 or 20 years of my analog experience have zero rumble or subsonic problems.

As for clamps and mats, they effect the interface between the LP and turntable, so it's a major factor in determining resolution, bandwidth and even tracking.

albertporter

Owner
Bob,

I use no filters in my system, 20 Hz or otherwise. I was using the Walker HDL's, but they deal with ultrasonics.

I've had no low frequency issues with turntables I've owned in recent years, including the Walker Proscenium, Versa Dynamics, Basis Debut Gold and Technics SP10 MK2 and MK3.

As for LP hold down systems, I have the JA Michell clamp, Walker clamp, Harmonic Resolution Technologies weight, the 3 in 1 record stabilizer, Ttweights middle weight and Ttweights heavy weights.

Clamps and weights have a substantial effect on sound and when combined with the five mats I own, it's a mind spinning array of combinations.

Tonight is the first experience with my new Micro Seiki CU-180. It's beautiful but I have no idea how it sounds.

albertporter

Owner
Microstrip,

The Micro Seiki Gunmetal will likely go on the MK3. The bearing on the MK3 is fully capable of supporting the extra weight.

I currently own several mats and still experimenting. I just spent the last six hours listening to my new Koetsu Coralstone as it breaks in. When the Koetsu and Supreme have enough hours and my second set of Stillpoints arrive for my MK2, the mat testing will resume.

Panzerholz is an equally large PITA here in the USA. We acquired ours from an Exxon Mobil project we were involved in. If not for that, we wouldn't have had the material to experiment with.

albertporter

Owner
Gregadd,

Excellent post. As to your comments that the Technics existed at the time I choose my Walker, you're absolutely right. Problem was with me, I had less than zero respect for Technics and all that they embodied.

I began my audio quest way back in 1965, the first piece of audio equipment I ever purchased was a Thorens TD 124. When Thorens produced the TD 125 in response to the AR and onslaught of belt drives, I bought into the technology.

I always felt the TD 125 gave up the connection and drive that the TD 124 had but it was quieter and in my youth, I assumed Thorens was right and I was wrong.

From that point on, I always owned belt drive, except for a short period of time when the Luxman direct drives were available to me from the local rep. I loved their looks and owned two of them. That was a time in my life when I was not interested in making things right, too much going on with work and social life.

Over the years I owned (not in order) the Townsend "The Rock" turntable, an Oracle Delphi, Oracle Premier, WIn Labs, Versa Dynamics, (2) Basis Debut Gold, Linn, (2) VPI, Well Tempered and others I can't recall at the moment. There were at least as many arms. In some cases two arms were tried on each table.

Bottom line is I bypassed the rim drive and direct drive due to prejudice and never reconsidered my position. That's rare for me, I experimented with just about everything except that.

albertporter

Owner
I can say that the Walker is gone and that a table from downunder does not appear to be in Albert's future. On a related note, it is clear, at least to me, that the plinth which Albert designed for his SP-10 does an extremely effective job of handling noise generated by the direct drive motor and noise feeding back from the environment.
Fred is correct, I sold my Walker and have no intention of purchasing a Continuum, although it was considered as an option.

Although I've only recently posted my decision, testing has been ongoing for 21 months. Nine others who heard the comparison bought this plinth plus MK2 or MK3.

Each person put their completed Technics in place and compared with their reference turntable and arm.

This resulted in the sale of two Walkers (w/Black Diamond arms), a Kuzma Stabi XL with Air Line arm, a VPI TNT with 12" JM arm, a Basis with Graham arm and a Raven.

For this many people to agree on this change means it's an excellent combination. Comparing with less quality plinth or tonearm will not provide the results I'm describing . Equally important is matching tone arm mass to cartridge and the best tonearm cable you can afford.

albertporter

Owner
Bless you Fred for the kind words.

The quality of your system makes that a much appreciated and valuable compliment.

albertporter

Owner
Albert, you're a great sport! Shows that solid state and tube guys don't have to be "at-it" all the time. I'm sure the music was wonderful, and the host as courteous as he's known for.

No doubt you had a chance to exchange RTR exploits ... which from my vantage is a little too extreme. At least for me. But I wonder what your view is on that, especially vs vinyl and ever improving digital...

Actually the Dart sounded good. I would say better than most solid state I've heard, but remember I'm a total tube guy so what do you expect?

Mike is a very nice person and a great host. I enjoyed myself, loved his home and dining choices and of course the music. Mike has several reel to reel machines but we were so involved in LP playback we only listened a short while on the Studer.

albertporter

Owner
Mtkhl567,

You didn't answer my first question though ...

This question?

I love it that you're rebuilding some older turntables, nice plinth too, but how do the Technics fare in the vibration absorption and speed stability department

I provided a link to my thread here at Audiogon where I have photo's and description of the MK3 project. There is no suspension on this design, so isolation from vibration must be achieved by choosing the right stand and feet and keeping the table away from the speakers.

The Walker was already nearly 15 feed from my speakers and had a dedicated stand for support, a stand that I designed and had built. So far the Technics MK3 seems to do well in the same spot but I'm at the early stages of experimentation.

I have a new material coming that may improve things more, it will go between my new platform and custom stand. It is claimed to drastically reduce floor induced vibration without harming the sound. I'll know better in a week or two.

albertporter

Owner
Mtkhl567,

See Audiogon link below for my response on MK2 and MK3 performance:

MK3 thread

As for Mike, I kept hoping he, Steve Dobbins or Larry would post something first. I gave the Evolution Acoustics speakers product of the year at PFO two years ago, so you know I like the speakers.

Mikes room is excellent, which leaves only the other equipment, set up and personal taste. I'm a tube guy, so if it were my room and system, I would replace the front end with Aesthetix rather than DartZeel and a tube amp (maybe Lamm SET) based on my opinion during a short audition of the system.

I actually preferred the Garrard with Triplanar and Koetsu Rosewood Platinum to Mikes Rockport with Colibri. I think the cartridge was the deciding factor here, the Colibri is too hard for my ears, but that's just a personal preference.

If I had his system and room I would be as happy as I am now, provided I could add tubes and tweak. That's pretty much the ultimate compliment one audiophile can give another.

I'm sure if Mike ever visits me, he would wish my Dali had DartZeel and a Colibri cartridge :^).

albertporter

Owner
Microstrip, the two Technics tables are fitted with identical SME tonearms but the cartridges and isolation systems are different.

My gut instinct, the MK3 is a bit more powerful, smoother and quieter. I'll know more in a couple of months with long term listening. The SME headshell are interchangeable, so eventuality I will hear both cartridges on both tables, long term.

I'm in line for all seven pieces of the new Aesthetix Eclipse. They should be in my system within two weeks. The additional resolution should make these comparisons more decisive.

You should consider a plinth and arm for your MK2, I think you would be surprised at their capability. If all is made right it's a lot of work. Rebuilding the power supply and design and construct the plinth correctly, but afterward the results will prove to you that it's capable of going up against the best there is.

albertporter

Owner
System edited: Added new room view image, added Ebony Plinth Technics MK3 turntable to equipment and updated description.

albertporter

Owner
Thank you Chris. The platform was delivered today and it is beautiful. If I were not flying out tomorrow to see Mike Lavigne I'd stop right now and photograph it.

Maybe next week when I return. The new turntable plinth will be prettier than the one shown here. It's designed with beveled edges so it looks sleeker but is actually denser and heavier.

albertporter

Owner
... or on tape right, but a 24/96 resolution recording is included.

I'm so far behind in ownership when it comes to bleeding edge digital, I don't know if a 24/96 recording would be much of an improvement.

I use my Blue Ray for all silver disc playback, including CD. At one time I was heavily invested in digital with all separates but moved to LP and tape exclusively for serious listening.

If I had $20K or $30K to drop on digital I know it would smoke what I have now, the problem is it would still not match my analog and I would be much poorer.

Better digital, maybe someday....

albertporter

Owner
Mtkhl567

I heard the Evolution Acoustics MM3 speakers at RMAF a couple of years ago. I was sufficiently impressed to award them product of the year at PFO, where I occasionally review.

Between these winning speakers and Mike’s room, I know the sound will be first class, Plus, it'll be great relaxing and listening with three other guys that love music as much as I.

Thanks for the Al Jarreau suggestion. No sound preview at AMG, but Concord Records had short previews of all the tracks. I liked what I heard, wish it was on LP.

albertporter

Owner
Albert, the PC-1 Supreme, the Koetsu Coralstone ... I guess the recession hasn't hit Texas just yet :-))

It has, but selling other equipment netted me enough to make this purchase.

I'm trying to keep audio "revenue neutral," just like Mike Lavigne's doing. No doubt these are tough times but I'm staying positive.

Speaking of Mike, I depart Monday 10th for a visit along with Steve Dobbins (Vetterone) and Larry Howkins Cello).

Since Mike owns Evolution Acoustics speakers, three excellent turntables and open reel analog sources, I know sound will be great.

albertporter

Owner
System edited: Added image of Koetsu Coralstone. Corrected text on cartridges, Images of new crossover and turntable to be added soon.

albertporter

Owner
Good meeting you too, that was a great show.

albertporter

Owner
Note: Koetsu Coralstone ordered today, a big step for me. Final analog set up will be the Coralstone in MK3 and Air Tight Supreme in MK2.

Air Tight PC-1 will go up for sale, probably this month.

albertporter

Owner
This year THE Show is at Alexis Park and St. Tropez.

You may remember that St. Tropez is 400 block of Harmon Street, next door to Alexis Park. In the past, CES showed at one and THE Show at the other.

CES has now moved high end audio displays to the Venetian. The Venetian is a nicer hotel but they lost the personal touch provided by the old location. I believe traffic to THE Show was harmed by CES moving. When CES was next door, people would see signs for THE Show and walk over to see what was there.

Last year, I noticed that once people got settled in one location, it was difficult to get to the other. In fact, CES even restricted busses from THE Show from picking up or dropping off at the Venetian.

Dirty pool on the part of CES, they want to control everything but never put this effort into the high end community until they got competition from THE Show.

Here is the link to CES site for registration:
http://www.cesweb.org/

Unfortunately, access to free badges expired on Nov 1st. If you register now it's $100.00 and waiting later raises the price to $200.00.

As always, access to THE Show is FREE, and open to everyone in the trade as well as consumers. I think it's good for high end audio for both venues to receive our support.

albertporter

Owner
Gunbei, Jax2 (Marco) is supposed to go to Vegas CES with Peter S, I hope to spend some time with both of them. No stripper stories, but I'm sure Marco will make up some for Audiogon when he returns.

Bad news about that design firm. Unfortunately I'm not surprised, the group that did Southwest Airlines let nearly 100 people go after the magazine folded. I worked on that magazine for 11 years, it broke my heart to no longer be able to contribute. The money and travel died along with it, so a multiple hit to the senses.

I'm trying to get in with some companies based here in Texas, hopefully some of them still have budget.

albertporter

Owner
Mtkhl567

I have not played the Supreme yet, hopefully this next week.

My newest turntable plinth design is on the way to my home today, literally in an hour or so. After measurements are confirmed for my (second) SME 312S arm and MK3, the plinth returns to the shop for final trim and finish.

All this time my MK2, and until a few weeks ago, the Walker were both playing. It would have been nice to have all three running at the same time, but I'm totally confident with the testing I've done at this point.

My excitement on the Supreme comes from a couple of reviewers I speak to.

Both of them own the Air Tight PC-1, Air Tight Supreme, Dynavector XV1s, Lyra and other cartridges. They say the Supreme, with less than optimal break in, is the best ever.

One reviewer (Absolute Sound) says the Supreme is so far ahead of everything else he's ever heard, he's selling off his other cartridges. To quote, 40% to 50% better than either the Dynavector XV1S or the Air Tight PC-1.

If true, it will be an incredible cartridge and perhaps tiebreaker in contest between Dynavector and PC-1, which I personally think are pretty close but very different sounding.

My Technics MK2 remains exactly as it is for now, so I have a stable platform to test the MK3 and Supreme. I never make changes without running old and new side by side for an extended period of time. In some cases, months and months.

Divorce photography? I guess I could become a police photographer.

You know, photo cover male victims who have been beat to a pulp by their wife for buying an Air Tight Supreme.

albertporter

Owner
Hey Gunbei, good to hear from you after so long. Are you going to be an active poster at Audiogon again?

Thank's for the compliment on my room, I keep honing the edge, hoping to get more out of the music.

My photo work is slow, as I think is the case for many commercial shooters. Almost makes me wish I had been a wedding photographer, people will continue to get married regardless of the economy.

albertporter

Owner
System edited: Added image of custom turntable plinth and new Air Tight Supreme.

albertporter

Owner
Did you preview the Black Pearl Reel to Reel from United Home Audio at RMAF?

BTW...Cannon or Nikon?

I did visit that room, I covered every room at RMAF, typically one image or two depending on amount of equipment displayed. I'm a big fan of reel to reel, but did not have the opportunity to sit and listen long enough to form an opinion.

My camera is Nikon, D2Xs. I've owned many SLR's and almost as many view cameras and medium format. My large cameras were Sinar (Switzerland) and medium format was Hasselblad.

albertporter

Owner
Montepilot,

First of all, I love my SME 312S, it has astounding dynamics and terrific bass response.

Since I know what Van Den Hul tonearm cable sounds like, I did not bother breaking in the stock SME cable. I began with Venustas and after using it for about 8 months, upgraded to Proteus Provectus.

I should state here, although I've used Purist for 22 years, I began selling it here at Audiogon a couple of years ago, so I guess "dealer" disclaimer should be inserted here.

That being said, just like selling my Walker after 10 years, if another cable beat the Purist, it would be gone, and I've tried lots of other brands.

Now that’s out of the way, setting up the SME is easy, assuming the holes are drilled at the right distance you set overhang with an accurate set up tool (just as you would with Triplanar) and then do the rest of the adjustments.

I prefer the Wally Tractor but assume the Mint does the same job. I tried both Baerwald and Loefgren and preferred Loefgren with my PC-1.

I recently purchased an Air Tight Supreme to go on my second SME 312S and that will be pared with Technics MK3 as soon as my plinth and platform are finished.

If the Air tight Supreme defeats the PC-1 as much as insiders claim, then the PC-1 will be sold, possibly replaced by a Koetsu Coral as an alternate sounding musical source. The Coral is supposed to be wonderful.

I did add damping fluid to the SME but could not set it at minimum enough contact to be usable. The SME damping paddle is a fine threaded bolt that very good quality, but has a flat, blunt end. Attempts to insert into the damping fluid falls into the too little or too much range.

When I get around to experimenting with the damping system again, I will remove the damping screw, ground it to a sharp point (like Walker does on his arm) so I have some latitude.

With the Walker, the damper system worked wonderfully when the needle sharp point "dented" the surface of the pool of damping material. Plunging the point into the fluid killed dynamics.

You get the idea.

I find VTA to be correct with Air Tight PC-1 at "level" or slightly down in the rear, depending on the LP and tonal balance preference.

I find the load is best (on Aesthetix tube phono) at about 240 ohms with tracking at exactly 2.02 using the Winds gauge.

albertporter

Owner
Hummmmm, I just returned from Denver, RMAF. Do you think a few room views might serve as payment for a bottle or two?

albertporter

Owner
Flying into Los Angelees, bringing in a couple of key......Napoleon Cognac's.

albertporter

Owner
Mtkhl567, too bad you can't board the airplane with a secret stash of that Napoleon Cognac so I can taste it.

albertporter

Owner
I think there's a whole thread here at Audiogon, discussing the merits of various drinks while listening to music.

I guess lots of people like to relax with friends and family and kick back with a drink and their favorite music.

I'll take you up on your offer at CES, look me up!

albertporter

Owner
That's always the case, scotch brings out the best in all systems.

albertporter

Owner
Objective1,

I hope that's a positive comment, it was a lot of work. There are other things done to the space as well, but my reply was already getting long.

albertporter

Owner
Hemisferik, you sold your Rockport? You did not say you had a buyer for it.

albertporter

Owner
that weekend is mom's birthday. She will be around 85 years young.

Happy birthday, no wonder you're not going to RMAF.

Good news I've never been to Vegas. That would be a good place to try and hear The CLX.

I'll be at Vegas too. It's coming sooner than you think. If you've not already made reservations for air and hotel, do it quick. Also, if you have not registered for a badge, I would move on that today. It's free right now and $100.00 at the door.

albertporter

Owner
I heard the Rockport was sold, shame, I am sure the owner misses it very much

Hemisferik, that question to me? I have never owned a Rockport.

albertporter

Owner
I will not make it RMAF. Could you stop by the Moscode room for me

I do my best to spend time in every room, I always feel like I missed something after I get home.

No way for you to make it to Denver?

albertporter

Owner
Objective1,

The design must be decided at the beginning of construction, this is one of those times I wish Audiogon had spots for tons more photos so I could show what we went through.

We tore that room out to raw dirt and concrete piers, and all walls were torn out to bare studs.

All voids packed with fiberglass and then a layer of 3/8" mahogany lumber applied. The mahogany was topped with two layers of 5/8 sheetrock, hung so joints did not line up. Between mahogany and each layer of sheetrock we applied acoustical calk to bond everything.

After all that dried the joints were tape and bedded and then every surface (except directly behind the speakers) got 1"of compressed acoustical fiberglass sheet. The system that covers all this is called Whisper Walls and it uses a track system that lies between the fiberglass sheets and allows for acoustical cloth to be applied.

The acoustical cloth my wife and I choose is so smooth, it pretty much passes for painted walls, leaving the room looking ordinary in appearance.

On either side of the fireplace the wall was torn out to the exterior brick, packed with fiberglass and two layers of 5/8" marine plywood was screwed to the studs. Over that was RPG diffusers covered with cloth so it looked like a regular wall

See: http://cgim.audiogon.com/i/vs/i/f/1111001394.jpg
Before rail system and acoustical cloth applied to hide.

The floor was built with steel plates on the piers, supporting lamination beam construction. This is an epoxy impregnated wood that's resistant to most anything and stronger than regular materials.

Under the turntable, amps and all the edges of the room, the standard 2 x 4 flooring was joined by extra pieces, forming a "box" network for additional strength. All these boxes were reinforced with steel plates at all corners, power screwed into place.

After all was leveled and secured we applied a layer of 5/8 epoxy impregnated tongue and groove flooring and power screwed it to the lam beams.

Then a second layer of 5/8 tongue and groove epoxy impregnated flooring was applied with acoustical cement between the two. After all that set, we poured a 1.5" layer of concrete and graded it smooth.

After the concrete set, we applied a thick layer of grout and a solid slate floor.

The roof is standing steel with ground planes at each end. I won't say it's a true faraday cage, but often cell phones and radio will not work in the listening space, so it's blocking better than regular shingles.

The electrical is another chapter, the room is wired for European 240 and USA 120 and features 14 dedicated electrical runs. The house is supplied with a 750 amp drop, same as a commercial building and it's 3 phase using two transformers for my residence. The heating and cooling are on 3 phase so it impacts the stereo very little.

With all the design and hard work covered up, the room looks ordinary, even pretty to some (thankfully my wife) so I can enjoy my music and most everyone feels like they are sitting in a typical "stock" 1950's Frank Lloyd Wright inspired home.

We moved in here in 1977 and have been tweaking the house and room all those years. The home was built in 1956.

albertporter

Owner
Thanks for the link, man do I agree with them on that preamp, I love my Aesthetix.

I will be doing show coverage for RMAF, Positive Feedback and Audiogon, so I will definitely be looking hard at that display, especially since I'm a fan of open reel.

Are you going to be there?

albertporter

Owner
Thanks for the question.

I don't move anything except the TV, it goes flat against the left wall and probably at that point presents no more problems than a large painting or piece of art work.

You're correct that the love seat is near the right speaker, but the Dali is a line source so only a tiny fraction of one corner sees any of the leather and from the listening position imaging and balance of all types of music remain correct.

http://cgim.audiogon.com/i/vs/s/f/1221106713.jpg

I have not seen your set up, and depending on the exact position of furniture and design of the speaker it may not be a big deal in your rig either.

It's hard to tell from my pictures, but every surface in this room is heavily treated, constructed from the wall studs to finish space.

The room is for family and friends, and the stereo is vitally important. My goal was to keep the room looking like a family living space while sporting extreme treatment on every surface. It was much more difficult to achieve than if I had allowed the room to look like a dedicated listening space (and "tech" look).

I'm willing to share details If you don't wish to dig through all the posts on my system.

albertporter

Owner
I'll look around for the Martin piece.

If possible for you to visit, use the Audiogon server to email me and we can work out details.

No plans for Denver RMAF either?

albertporter

Owner
Hello Roger, thank you for that wonderful compliment. Wish you could have joined us last night for music, we had a good time and sound was great.

If travel brings you this way, you're welcome to bring the Frank Martin piece for an audition. Are you going to CES since you live so close to Vegas?

albertporter

Owner
Mtkhl567, thank you for that excellent tip.

I was looking for an original, didn't know it could be had new at Acoustic. I'll search for sample tracks and order from Chad. Money is always an issue, but software is so important I'll do without something to get LP's.

albertporter

Owner
Mtkhl567,

I found that album at AMG, read the review and track info, but unfortunately there were no sample tracks to listen to.

I'll do a search at my vinyl haunts and see if it turns up. I have a huge collection of Bill Evans LP's, so I'm surprised I don't already own this one.

As for our audiophile gathering, this is a project that I started way back in 1976 and I've always pressed hard to keep the day of the week the same all those years. There have been very few times when a meeting is cancelled, VERY few times.

It started with one friend and we added like minded folks. People get accustomed to that day of the week and begin to look forward to hearing music that night. This way I meet new music lovers and all my regulars exchange our experiences with equipment and software. I've gotten to audition a lot of equipment this way and loaned out some things as well.

Other guys in the group may call a meeting at their home, then all of us show up if no conflict in schedule. All the guys and girls have nice systems at every conceivable price range.

albertporter

Owner
The reason they are smiling is because I'm taking the photo and making wise cracks. All the guys (and girls) that come for music are like minded, fun loving people with a passion for music.

There are about thirty of us, all part of the group and it changes from week to week as to who shows up. Everyone is married and has kids, so family matters drive the meetings. Sometimes there is no place to sit and a week later it's just me and one or two others.

Wish Audiogon had space for at least 12 images. I have lots of other shots of members and other interesting views of the system.

albertporter

Owner
System edited: Added an image of some of the guys in our audio group.

albertporter

Owner
System edited: Update images of music room, new furniture, cable changes

albertporter

Owner
Hello Laupi,

My new crossover is more than double the size and double the power supply of the one featured here among my system images. I promise to take photo's of the new unit soon.

During last Tuesday's music session, with about 900 hours on the new crossover, I had the best sound I have ever had.

When I say the best sound ever, I mean literally the best sound I have had in my audio career. It was amazing to hear the parts finally reach break in where they delivered what I was hoping for.

Two guys in my group made the same comment, one who is an audio manufacturer said I had the best sound he's ever heard. So, as the new crossover continues to change, it's providing a world of difference from a few weeks ago.

For the first time in years, I have the ultimate resolution I've been seeking, tremendous detail and dynamics AND emotion that surpasses even my Sound-Lab Ultimates. Now the music flows like water, even bringing tears to your eyes it's so beautiful.

As for my old tube crossover, it was sold the same day my new one arrived. However, no problem having another one built, just email me via Audiogon and I'll forward you Tom's info so you guys can work out details.

I'm also available to discuss this, nothing in it for me, but I owe Tom for what he's done for me.

A reviewer friend at Absolute Sound has a slightly different version of this new four box crossover. He was fortunate enough to get his before me and has been raving at it's quality. His was tailored for Magneplanar 20.1, so it appears to work magic on more than just Dali's.

albertporter

Owner
Mtkhl567

Have you seen this item from IKEA?

http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/40016834

I used two of these fastened together to hold my record cleaning machine and supplies. The drawers hold cleaning fluid, accessories and overflow CD's.

They sell for only $149.00 in the USA and much better looking than the image on IKEA web site.

albertporter

Owner
Mtkhl567,

My IKEA cabinet was about $150.00 and looks great. Tonight during our music session one of my group walked out into the studio to play with the cats and saw it. I opened the pretty glass doors and showed him the tapes I had stored and he complimented it's style and quality.

When I told him I was about $150.00 he laughed out loud. He said, "Don't tell anyone, they'll think it was at least $600.00. You can't get anything that nice for $600.00."

A bargain piece for sure, as you say more money for software.

albertporter

Owner
Gregadd

Just wondering if you ever heard VMPS RV60 & VLA SUB. I just ran across them in beautiful Rosewood finish. A huge line array ribbon tweeter with matching subs.

I heard them briefly at CES when I was doing show coverage for Audiogon, so I could only spare a few minutes in each room.

VMPS has always made an impression every time I hear them. Simply a case of too many great speakers and not enough time.

albertporter

Owner
Those cables are a result of more than 22 years of trading, comparing and evolving. I met Jim Aud at CES about the time he started Purist Audio.

I get so involved with this hobby that I loose track of time. A perfect example, I spent half of my Sunday (today) assembling a small book case called the BestÅ that I found at IKEA.

When I saw it in the catalog it looked to be the perfect size for my reel to reel tapes. A simple, clean style with glass panel, spring loaded doors to keep out the dust.

Tonight, with my tapes stored in my photo studio, I have three more bookshelf spaces for all those LP's that were sitting on the floor. Some of these were the new Blue Note reissues from Music Matters and Acoustic Sounds, which really deserve a dedicated shelf.

albertporter

Owner
That's a great machine. It's the inspiration for my RCM MK5. I'm ordering three of these RCM MK5's for guys in my group this next week. I did the photography for them (same as in my shots above :^).

If you can't find bottles, the beta sample bottles are still around here and I'm expecting a dozen production cleaner and water in the next two or three days and could partially refill those empties for a test.

albertporter

Owner
If you have a couple of small clean bottles I'm willing to share a bit of Enzyme and water for you to test.

albertporter

Owner
Have you tried the MoFi? It's circulated to a few people already.

albertporter

Owner
I'm running experiments right now, I have Walker, Disc Doctor, Record Research, Audio Intelligent and the new prototype MoFi Enzyme cleaner.

By far the easiest is the (two step) MoFi and I'm pretty much decided that it's the best sound too. The Walker Enzyme, AI Enzyme and MoFi Enzyme all clean wonderfully but each sounds a bit different, depending on how many rinses you do.

What's amazing to me is the simplicity of the new MoFi. Put on and vacuum off, use MoFi water for rinse (one time) and the sound is astounding. Usually things don't work out that way, so I'm very positive at this point.

I just got some more MoFi today. It's been hard to get because it was previously just a beta sample.

albertporter

Owner
My new custom tube crossover arrived today.

Amazing workmanship, fully discrete components, all hand wired point to point with separate mono chassis and mono power supplies requiring twin umbilical cords, two AC cords, two tube rectifiers and five chokes per channel.

It's really over the top but sounded very good right out of the box. Something I did not expect considering it has zero hours and nearly 100% Teflon caps.

I'll post comments and update with new images when possible.

albertporter

Owner
Chashmal, thank you very much.

If you travel this way, you are invited to listen to music with us. Make it a Tuesday night and you can meet the whole group and go to dinner, followed by an evening of music.

I love softening up newcomers with a few cold Bohemia beers and a plate of Tex- Mex, everyone thinks the music is wonderful after that.

albertporter

Owner
Justin, the original crossover is still available to anyone wanting one. Current price direct from Tom is $3500.00-$3800.00. I get noting from this nor do I expect to.

For the dual mono version like I have under construction now, Tom quoted $4500.00-$4800.00.

The $4500.00-$4800.00 crossover has the upgraded circuit, but utilizes the same Wima, F dyne and Illinois capacitors as the original version.

My version of this dual mono crossover moves away from the off the shelf caps to the custom ones mentioned in my previous post. These are the same caps adopted by Audio Research and Aesthetix, comprising much of the current upgrade path that's garnered positive press of their newest models.

I'm assuming what I like about the new Aesthetix and Audio Research will be good in the crossover as well. Should know in a few weeks (fingers crossed).

albertporter

Owner
Justin,

I love the design of the Dali and thought the original crossover did very well in the low frequencies but not in the highs. Truth is, I did not know at that time if it was the crossover, the ribbon tweeters, the set up or equipment issues.

Over time I eliminated all the variables, leaving only the crossover or ribbon tweeter as the culprit. When we built the first crossover I was not willing to spend unlimited funds on a project that might or might not resolve the issues I had with the sound. After that first tube crossover was completed, it thrashed the stock unit at only fifty hours break and continued to improve for several hundred hours.

After that result, I wondered if an "ultimate" version might boost the performance even more and when Jacob and Tom pushed my original project to include the Maggies, that was the bump that sent me into this present project.

The old philosophy of weakest link in the chain applies here. I have state of the art preamp and phono and the crossover sits between those and my 3000 watt amps.

I believe the new crossover will improve contrast, resolution and dynamics while reducing distortion to levels even lower than I now have. Then again, if I'm wrong, I can always send the new crossover back and tip toe backward toward the original design until I hit the sweet spot.

I'm hoping this over the top approach is correct and no backtracking required. Time will tell and fortunately it's only a few weeks away.

So your question that the crossovers on the Dali are not satisfactory is not completely accurate. The correct way to look at it would be that I converted the original crossover to what I have now and enjoying the best sound I have had in all my years in audio. If that same result were had from experimenting with NOS tubes in my amps, no way would I stop experimenting. The opposite would apply, with success under my belt I would see if more was to be had with a bit more work.

Obviously that's what I'm doing now. Honing a sharper edge rather than throwing out the project for another one that needs an equal amount of work to make right.

albertporter

Owner
I received good news today concerning the status of my new custom tube crossover. Completion is only three weeks away.

This has been in the works for a very long time, and will replace the first effort by Tom and I. Our first effort appears in my system list (including an image) and provided a world shaking improvement over the original Dali transistor unit.

Jacob Heilbrunn, who reviews for Absolute Sound and who posts here occasionally is a friend. Jacob knew how happy I was with my original unit, so last year he ask Tom if the design could be modified to work with his Magneplanar 20.1. Tom evolved it into a beautiful three way, and along the way the power supply was significantly upgraded.

Jacob was so impressed with the crossover, it has become a permanent part of his reference listening and reviewing system. I have great respect for Jacob's listening skills, so his excitement encouraged me to press the design even further. This new unit will be four pieces, including twin outboard tube power supplies.

Each power supply has it's own AC cable and umbilical cord connecting it to the twin mono left and right channel chassis with approximately triple the capacity of my current unit. Each channel now incorporates five chokes per channel, replacing the original resistive drop stages.

Last and perhaps most important are the twenty or so custom capacitors, each hand built with tolerances of less than 1%, consisting of Teflon film and foil. These are absolutely the best quality available.

Purist Audio helped with the design, building custom Anniversary AC cords and dual Anniversary umbilical cords that connect the power supplies to main unit. I've located an additional set of NOS tubes for experimentation and the connectors are being cryo treated.

I'll post comments as to how this effects performs once installed and I have a few hours burn in.

Wish me luck, it's a lot of money for a "blue sky" experiment, I hope it exceeds our other two efforts.

albertporter

Owner
Ed, understood. Email me for my phone number if you decide you can make it,

albertporter

Owner
Thank you Fcrowder (Fred) and thank you Goldeneraguy (Ed),

Ed, the invitation to listen that I extended via email (last November ?) is still good in case you travel this way. A Tuesday night is best if you have a choice, then you can meet the extended group that help each other and listen together.

albertporter

Owner
Thank you John, I know you're enjoying that beautiful new home in Austin, but we miss seeing your smiling face during our Tuesday night music sessions.

Don't forget to bring those two beautiful kids next time your in town, you promised and I'm holding you to it. I want to see how much they've grown.

Thanks for the compliment on my sound, I have some things coming that I know will be an improvement. You heard the prototype stuff since the designers were here, I think the finished product will exceed that.

albertporter

Owner
Gregadd:

Maybe he has to keep it somewaht revenue neutral. His walker has not sold yet. It is off season right now. I'm sure it will sell before the first cold snap.

I had a potential buyer visit this last week and two other Audiogon members contact me since, asking for better images than can be displayed here.

Since my Walker is the most complete (considering all the upgrades) of any ever advertised at Audiogon, the price is fair. However, your comments about it being off season right now is absolutely correct.

Don't forget too, the economy is slow and it's income tax time. Possibly the worst time for me to to run an ad :^).

albertporter

Owner
Gregadd, not worked out yet. You know I hate to make comments until I'm 100% sure of everything.

albertporter

Owner
I'm exploring several options, the Walker is difficult to match, much less beat.

albertporter

Owner
Thank you very much.

albertporter

Owner
Andrew conducted the Dallas Symphony but left to take on new projects. I visited him months ago to help him set up his turntable and work on his tube gear in his new home in the Westchester area of New York.

It's funny you mention "row zero," I never thought of it that way. Andrew did like to listen loud at times and feel the music as well as listen. He had the most uncanny ability to pick out flaws in recordings of anyone I have ever known. By flaws I don't mean a click on a LP, but rather where someone in the orchestra made a noise or the recording engineer did something wrong.

He's an amazing person to listen with. Oddly enough most of the time at our group listening sessions at my home, he wanted to listen to Billie Holiday, Ella Fitzgerald or a Jazz album. I think our group was an escape from the pressure he was under, we had fun, laughed and listened together as friends and I helped him with his system quite a bit.

Andrew has an absolutely amazing collection of software. Thousands of LP's and hundreds of tapes of BBC concerts. He's a huge fan of piano jazz with Oscar Peterson being one of this favorites.

He also has master DAT tapes of the Dallas Symphony performances and many of his Delos releases. He always recorded and then compared the commercial CD release to his copy (on his own system). I listened to these with him on several occasions and watched his disappointment. He frequently ask me to explain why the record company could not get the CD right.

Unknown to most people, most of the Dallas Symphony recordings were recorded on analog open reel tape as a backup of the performance. Boy would I kill to get copies of those to play on my system.

albertporter

Owner
Microstrip, I have not tried that combination but well aware of the superior performance of CJ ART and ACT2. In fact, one of my old time audio group members (Grammy award winner, Andrew Litton) has the ART preamp in his system and I've heard it many times.

The only possible objection to the combination of ART and VTL 750 would be a bit of overly warm sound. Both products have superior power supplies and deliver very musical (and slightly warm) presentation.

Should you put that combination together and wish for a bit more transparency, it's no problem swapping a few tubes and hitting exactly what you want, tonally and dynamics wise.

albertporter

Owner
Hxt1,
I considered the Bottlehead mods but I can't justify them. It's about $5K to max out my Technics 1520 and my open reel tape collection is too small to justify that investment.

I've heard a couple of the Tape Project tapes and they are wonderful, I have not bought into the program although there are two or three titles I would really like to have.

albertporter

Owner
System edited: Realized text on system was totally out of date, corrected now.

albertporter

Owner
Hello Chin,

My active crossover is a two way because that's the design requirement of the Dali Megaline. Other versions of my crossover are available in both two and three way.

Mine is a custom tube version delivering the same electrical functions as the factory (transistor) crossover that came with the Dali's.

Both my custom tube and the original crossover divide signal into high and low frequencies at line level prior to delivery to the amps.

There are several benefits.
(1) The amps operate at half their rated bandwidth, reducing strain and distortion.
(2) The individual drivers in each cabinet are provided only the bandwidth they are capable of operating within.
(3) There are no parts between the amplifier and drivers (DIRECT DRIVE). The speaker cabinets contain only raw drivers and wire. No need for inductors, capacitors, resistors, circuit boards, pots or fuses.

In my system the active crossover goes between my preamp and the four mono amps. This is achieved by running a single pair of stereo cables from my preamp into the crossover. The tube crossover divides frequencies into left and right, high and low, including correct EQ slope and gain. Output signal exits via four RCA interconnects into the four mono amps sitting beside my speakers.

My particular crossover has variable gain at the flange point, so I can control the EQ where the bass and high frequency amps split. With this you can reduce bass at the crossover point keeping midrange clean and phase perfect.

Mine also has a gain control provided by a high transconductance pentode tube that drives the bass amps. With this control you can change bass gain to perfectly match the room and the high frequencies.

There may be a need to adjust bass due to distance of speakers from back wall and /or ceiling. Bass balance between left and right channel is seldom perfect unless you have a 100% perfect environment.

It's great to be able to correct this with analog using tube gain rather than a complicated digital apparatus.

albertporter

Owner
Come on by.

albertporter

Owner
Thank you Gregadd, I wish you could plan a visit like Oneobgyn is talking about.

I would love to host you guys along with my regular group. I have another Audiogon member (Bryceeboy) coming in April.

albertporter

Owner
You are welcome any time. I have three upgrades coming in the next three months. The longer you wait the better the sound will be.

I have 32 custom capacitors being manufactured for a revised and improved tube Dali crossover to replace this first attempt from 2004. Also, my phono is being rebuilt to the Eclipse version by Jim White (time TBD :^), waiting on the same company to build caps for it too.

I have not mentioned it, but I also have Purist Audio's new phono cable, the Proteus Provectus. I think only Triplanar and I have the prototypes, unless Jim built more since we last spoke.

albertporter

Owner
System edited: Replaced Koetsu Jade Platinum with second Air Tight PC-1. Now have one in both Technics SP10 MK2 on SME 312S and in Walker Proscenium Black Diamond. I love this cartridge but maybe a Dynavector XV1S is in my future as well.

albertporter

Owner
System edited: Replaced McCormack UDP-1 Deluxe with Pioneer Elite Blue Ray.

albertporter

Owner
Jfd01, sorry to be so slow. Last night was our weekly music night and I had quite a few visitors.

The material is 100% Polyester and treated so it's Class A rating on fire resistance. Color is Sandstone. I don't know the name of the texture (or lack thereof). Designtex has lots of samples, I'm certain one is right for your space.

albertporter

Owner
Joel,

The fabric behind the Dali's is also on the walls and in the skylight wells in the ceiling. The whole room is treated with fiberglass, diffraction panels or traps.

As for the covering, the most popular acoustical cloth is Guilford of Maine. My wife and I looked at dozens of samples from that company in addition to several other brands.

http://www.guilfordofmaine.com/

During construction we tacked up a half dozen of the finalists so we could view them as the light in the room changed during the day and night. We settled on a product from Designtex, a New York based company offering a slightly upscale product that worked perfect for our room.

http://www.dtex.com/

There are so many color and texture choices it's unbelievable. The Designtex sample we choose is almost as smooth as painted sheetrock. We've had some visitors over several times before they realize the room has any treatment at all.

The good news, most women love to see and choose from the wide variety of fabric samples and once the cloth is installed, the RPG's, fiberglass and bass traps disappear. My wife could care less what's under the cloth and I was not all that opinionated as to what color was "perfect" for our living room.

End result, great sound and both husband and wife happy.

albertporter

Owner
Pryso, You're right, I have not done that. Difficult to talk about the two, they are so different and literally miles apart in cost.

albertporter

Owner
After my tonearm cable is broken in, you're welcome to borrow the custom cable I built.

The one available is my male DIN to RCA. The RCA to alligator clips is loaned out to another guy in my group and will be gone for awhile (lots of testing).

albertporter

Owner
Unfortunately there is no short cut with cartridge. Mount it properly and get a junk LP from the local thrift shop and cue it up every time you walk by.

After 100 hours most cartridges are broken in enough that you can enjoy the changes while listening to music. My Air Tight continued to change beyond 200 hours, possibly 300 before there were absolutely no further improvements.

albertporter

Owner
Lapierre,

Sorry, I have not heard the Calypso Sig. version. I suspect the same caps that are chosen for the Eclipse versions are going into this model, and likely with similar results.

I just posted comments on performance upgrade of the Eclipse in this thread:

http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?aamps&1201389818&openmine&zzAlbertporter&4&5#Albertporter

albertporter

Owner
Auctorita cables are amazing. Super dynamic, very quiet and at the same time, musical.

I originally had six of them in my system, powering preamp, amps and CD player and although they are typically not available in the USA, I choose them because I thought they sounded best.

That being said, I have two Auctorita I will be selling as I've upgraded to the new Purist Anniversary. Purist Anniversary is more money but is also the first cable I've auditioned that beat Auctorita.

Both Auctorita and Purist Anniversary are better than the Elrod I auditioned in my system (more than a year ago). Meaning Elrod could have been upgraded since then.

albertporter

Owner
Albert, you suggested that I pull the Megalines 5-6 feet from the wall. However my room is 13 feet wide - I used to put the A1s 1-2 feet from the wall. Or are you referring the distance from the back wall?

Yes, from back wall. I should have made myself more clear. Here is a link to the formula that I found helpful at Cardas website:

http://www.cardas.com/content.php?area=insights&content_id=26&pagestring=Room+Setup

Be sure to look at both regular and di pole speaker placement as the Dali is a di pole.

albertporter

Owner
Micro,

I use an RPG 734 variation behind my Dali Megalines and love what they do. Diffraction preserves back wave energy, rather than killing it off.

I've experimented with diffraction with two pair of Sound-Labs, Magneplanar and Dali Megalines. All of these speakers are dipoles and (in my opinion) all work with diffraction behind them.

Your room will certainly work, provided you pull the Dali's out from the wall 5.5 to 6.5 feet and toe them in. Dali supplies a template that's large enough to wrap around the speaker, lay on the floor and sight at your listening seat.

Set up this way, Dali's image perfectly in the "hot spot" and provide enough dispersion so everyone in the room enjoys pleasant imaging with clear definition, even well off axis.

I have my side walls covered floor to ceiling with fiberglass panels as well as part of the ceiling where it vaults out of sight in my photo's (above).

You may need first reflection wall treatment, I would go for the Dali's, set them up and judge for yourself.

For set up, the Cardas room guide for dipoles worked great, putting me within one inch of where they wound up after listening.

albertporter

Owner
Lharasim,

The Technics is extremely good, right now I'm listening to it quite a bit because I love the Air Tight PC-1 so much. I have another Air Tight cartridge coming Wednesday or Thursday next week and will install it on my Walker.

After some break in time, I can tell you exactly what the differences are between the two.

As for your Technics not being as quiet in the groove as the Basis, that's a function of arm, base, cartridge and set up.

My Technics is quieter than either my Basis Debut Gold Mk 4 or Mk 5 and these Basis tables had three different Graham arms and the Air Tangent 10B.

albertporter

Owner
Microstrip, when you say RPG's are covering the front wall. Is this the wall the back of the Dali Megalines would go against?

I think your 13' width would be OK and at 30' long, it's almost identical to mine.

The abfusers on side walls, what type are they? How much of the side wall do they cover?

albertporter

Owner
Nate, Glad you're trying the Technics, please post images and performance results. Mine is wonderful, I was listening to it tonight.

As for Thanksgiving custard, you forgot the dry ice, it melted on the front porch and the neighbors dog licked it up.

You believe that story don't you?

albertporter

Owner
I enjoyed you and Carissa too, I wish we could have all gone to dinner and listened more. If travel brings you this way again, please call.

Glad you liked the sound, I can hardly wait for the upgrade on my Aesthetix Io, it will be bigger than the Callisto upgrade and that was part of what you were hearing.

By the way, Carissa is wonderful, my radar says she is VERY intelligent and kind, a mix not often found today. I hope you two do well together.

albertporter

Owner
Oneobgy, (Steve) the thank you above was addressed to both you and Marty.

You're even nicer in person than in the forums, which I did not think possible. I had more to say about Marty because I got to hear his system.

Maybe travel will put me in your area and I can take you up on your offer to listen at your place.

I'm sure it would be great and we could both go bug Grellman too since we both know him.

albertporter

Owner
Likewise for both you guys.

After visiting Marty's home last night I'm hoping he will adopt me. My plan is to set up a roll away bed in his sound room since it's nearly the size of my home :^).

Great set up with his big ARC amps on the OTHER side of the wall from the speakers and seating area. Talk about isolation for the tubes, no need for fancy stands when the amps are in the next room.

This is the perfect isolation/execution within a high end system and exactly what I would have done if space allowed. I really enjoyed the Goldmund turntable too, it was WONDERFUL, I'll bet it would go against most of hot tables produced today.

Also funny that Marty and I have a connection from about 30 years ago when he was involved with cosmetic design of the Spatial Coherence preamp.

This was when Steve McCormack was with Spatial and I was hanging with him. Not only did I own the Spatial Coherence, I bought every upgrade that Steve put into it for several years thereafter.

Funny to go all these years and find threads of friendship and love of music and gear that spans from California to Texas.

albertporter

Owner
Hello Lightminer,

I think the answer "do cable lifters work" depends on the material the sound room floor is constructed from, the design of the cable and the type of cable lifter.

I've tried several cable lifters, including home made jobs out of Styrofoam cups, the "crossed" popcicle stick tweak and the commercially available ceramic jobs.

With the Purist brand interconnects and speaker cables I use, the results were negative with all three types.

Testing in three systems of people in my audio group that also use Purist, we got the same negative effect. Two of these people had carpet floor and one had herringbone Teak wood floor.

In all cases the cable lifters softened the bass impact, smeared resolution slightly and blurred the image (the apparent clear position of instruments).

I'm blowing up the results to provide a short answer. The damage was slight, but why use them if they're even the least bit negative?

I should add, I tried this test in my same room with two different floors.

First time with my old Terrazzo floor and later after the acoustic treatment and total room rebuild, with India Multi color Slate.

This second time I tested ONLY with the commercial ceramic cable lifters, I did not give the home made devices a second chance when results repeated again.

I know that other cable brands differ in their reaction to lifters. Several respected posters here at Audiogon say they got an upgrade when lifters were added. Wish I could remember which brands of cable benefited.

I still have the commercial ceramic jobs sitting in a drawer. You're welcome to give them a try in your system. I have no plans to use them.

albertporter

Owner
I just sent you an email.

albertporter

Owner
How about Texas Pecan Pie?

If travel brings you back this way, contact me and we'll go for dinner and spin some tunes.

albertporter

Owner
Thank you, I enjoy the forums immensely, spend way too much time having fun there.

I noticed in another thread you posted you were "previously" a East Texas resident. Did the move take you out of state or just to another city?

albertporter

Owner
System edited: Added two more components and images.

albertporter

Owner
Fjn04,

The Jade is marvelous. Cooler and less resonant than the Rosewood and Onyx, a near perfect balance of warmth and resolution.

It's weakness when compared to the PC1 is high frequency speed and extension, bass tightness and dynamics.

The Jade is lush, beautiful and musical. The PC1 has dynamics and punch almost equal to my (1) master tape at 15 IPS, which is saying a lot. I may grow tired of the strength of the PC1 and wind up placing it equal to the Koetsu.

We all know that something new has the advantage until we live with it long enough to grasp it's real value and determine it's faults.

Still, right now the PC1 is blowing me away.

albertporter

Owner
I had the ZYX in my system and thought it was inferior to the Jade. The Air Tight does everything the ZYX is trying to do and does it so well it makes me question the Koetsu.

I still have both cartridges and plan on keeping them. I'm getting another cartridge from Japan that is not imported here, although this could be some months away. If that turns out to be successful I will post my findings.

albertporter

Owner
I completed the advertising photography for Grand Prix Audio the second week of August. There was a lot to do and Alvin absolutely had to get home as he was totally slammed with work.

We hooked up the Grand Prix table with Dynavector arm and Dynavector XV1s the last hour of the last day he was here.

Basically it was thrown together so I could get a quick hour or so listening before Alvin had to board the plane. Given the time Alvin had to make his flight, I'm surprised he allowed me listening time at all.

I should say here that Alvin and I got along extremely well. I liked Alvin before this trip and now have even greater respect than before. Nothing like two people being thrown together for a project with no time to spare.

My conclusion is, not enough music and too short a time to judge. We were listening to a different turntable, different arm, different tonearm cable and different cartridge than my reference. Impossible to know what contributed to what.

I will say that my brief encounter with his Dynavector cartridge SEEMS like I prefer it less than my Koetsu and the Air Tight. I say this as a GUESS because the cartridge plays such a huge role in personality (just as speakers do)

In fact, my new Air Tight PC1 is making me reevaluate my ideas about how a cartridge should perform. I always thought the Koetsu was perfect and it earned that respect against half a dozen cartridges I've had in my system, some that cost lots more than it.

Now that I've heard the Air Tight I'm wondering if I will ever listen to my Koetsu without missing what the Air Tight provides. Time will tell, there is always an advantage with the new thing as the listener has yet to hear the errors.

Is Fremer's review of the GPA out yet? I shipped a DVD with images to Stereophile as they (at that time) intended using them for the review. I would love to know if the images were used.

albertporter

Owner
Another turntable to compliment and contrast the Walker. I want to be able to swap cartridges and make comparisons without having to tear down my reference.

So far the Air Tight cartridge is blowing my mind. Really good cartridge and very different from the Koetsu Jade Platinum.

albertporter

Owner
Added text and image of my new Air Tight PC1 cartridge. Will add my new turntable, arm, base and isolation system soon.

albertporter

Owner
Here are a number of randomly selected systems featured here at Audiogon (links below). Suggested retail prices are listed on most of the components.

If you should decide to build your own virtual system, you will see the software here at Audiogon requests pricing. Many people comply with that request.

http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?vaslt&1133363314&read&3&4&

http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?vaslt&1174662788&read&3&4&

http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?vaslt&1153191036&read&3&4&

http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?vaslt&1129441519&read&3&4&

albertporter

Owner
I would probably let it slide.

I'm currently rebuilding a Technics turntable that I bought for $400.00, so your hypothetical question hits close to home ;^).

I have no expectation it will match the Walker but it will be fun to listen, and if someone believed it gave the Walker "a run for it's money" I guess they would be entitled to that opinion.

I believe some people would hold that opinion, even after the two were compared and the Walker sounded better. Peoples taste varies that much, especially when "buffered" with cost difference.

I judge things ONLY by performance. There are many things (audio, automobiles, things for my home) I would love to replace, knowing they would be better, but I can't do it. That fact does not cloud my opinion of the better option although it effects people many different ways.

The "sour grapes" attitude is a common defense employed by many to keep from being hurt. That's a truth that is so old it spawned the fable about the fox and the grapes.

Me, I laugh about the million things I can't afford but lust after. That's life and I accept it, some cannot do that.

I knew a guy that actually thought a Toyota was better than a Porsche. Porsche is one of my favorite cars in the world. Of course I don't have one and cannot afford one, but I would never compare it to a Toyota. Toyota is a great value, extremely reliable and very popular, so not a surprise someone believes it's the best.

All luxury items including high end audio follow the path of diminishing returns. I think the investment in super premium gear is important and repays me by providing a level of satisfaction that I would otherwise not have.

The person making the suggestion your hypothetically proposing may indeed believe that the cheaper rig is "pretty much the same" and therefore cannot understand why anyone would want better.

Everything is about money. Love of music is my passion and really my only hobby. For many people this is absurd and if they don't understand they lash out.

Frankly I'm all about letting everyone enjoy the hobby and the music at whatever level brings them the most joy. For some people an iPod provides everything they ever need. For others the quest never ends, even when they have near perfect sound.

Me, I'm extremely happy, probably as happy as I was when I had the Sound Labs, which is saying something. They were extraordinary.

albertporter

Owner
Justin,
Not everyone has the same taste, so even though a suggestion may not be leading the direction I want, the person offering may be sincere.

It would be nice if we could all listen to each others systems, then the words would really mean something. We would understand what each person thinks is important.

albertporter

Owner
Francisco, I heard the Dali Megaline with McIntosh solid state gear at CES a couple of years ago and it was better than the sound with Oasis solid state amps used at Denver Audio Fest.

Granted, two different rooms so who knows what played a part in what I was hearing. In any case, the Dali's sounded good with at least one solid state rig, in fact better than just about every other system at CES that year and their room pretty much sucked.

Guess what I'm saying, it is possible to get great sound with Dali and solid state gear and there are probably people who PREFER that sound over tube.

As for CJ gear, it has always been neutral to warm, better than most solid state amps. I like CJ, Classe' Omega and Gryphon solid state amps judging from show systems and audiophiles home's I heard these in.

The Transition Audio tube crossover is the last thing the amps see, so it plays a big role in overall sonics. Even with a transistor preamp, the amps see "tubes' at the input jacks and that makes a huge difference in overall sound.

One of the reviewers at Absolute Sound is having a Transition Audio tube crossover built for his Magneplanar 20.1, I'm hoping he is as excited about the sound as I am with mine on the Dali's.

albertporter

Owner
System edited: It's late Sunday night, and I finally completed the fifteen advertising shots for Axiss Audio USA of the Odyssey RCM MK V record cleaning machine. The design is essentially a Keith Monks, but with motorized fluid dispensing pump, adjustable vacuum (and vacuum gauge) and other performance tweaks. The quality of both the appearance and the performance is stunning. It's hand built in Germany and looks the part. I also added a second image, a nice view of the workmanship and parts on the inside. I absolutely love this machine, it improved the sound of my LP library substantially, and all my LP's had previously been washed with the VPI 17F which is a stunning performer and my previous standard for many years.

albertporter

Owner
Hello Gale, that's the problem with a big city. You're in town visiting relatives, so it should be easy, yet we're fighting schedules and distance to squeeze in a couple of hours listening.

Sincere offer, if you travel this way again the offer still stands. I hope to have you sit in with us so you can listen to the Dali's up close and personal. They are working better than I ever thought possible.

I too enjoyed the phone conversation. Hope next time it can be in person.

albertporter

Owner
Thank you Hifiblue, if travel ever brings you this way you're welcome to listen with us.

Last night our group spun LP's at my place until late. Several pieces of new music including a guy I've never had the pleasure of hearing. That's what makes owning this stuff fun.

albertporter

Owner
My SME 312S tonearm arrived from England while I was in New York. Sumiko (the importer) received it and shipped to me last Friday. I hope to receive it this coming week.

After we study the mounting instructions to see where the tonearm template lands on the plinth, we can finalize the details of where to position the tonearm board as well as overall size and layout of the plinth itself.

If you've not read previous threads on this topic, the turntable I'm restoring is an old (inexpensive) Technics SP10 Mk2.

Anyone with suggestions and/or experience with constructing a custom plinth, your comments would be most welcome. I've spoken and exchanged several emails with Audiogon member Vetterone who has a lot of experience with Lenco and other custom plinths. I'm following his advice as well as other ideas that would help insure success.

albertporter

Owner
Hello Aaron,

I originally ask that same exact question of the chief designer at Dali in Denmark. I was considering two Dali Crossovers with signal inverted in one chassis so I could achieve balanced in my system.

Turns out that was not achievable and with most of the amps I was considering, none were balanced capable anyway.

Next was the idea of twin Dali crossovers, one behind each speaker so wires don't have to cross between the speakers into the floor. (All current connections are in wire runways under the floor)

Dali said that the crossover was capable of driving up to 30 meters of low loss interconnect, so it was more sensible to put it at the front of the system and reduce the load off the preamp while saving the expense of an additional crossover (about $4,000.00).

After discovering the Dali crossover had such a strong transistor op-amp personality, I set about the task of having it reverse engineered and a tube unit built. The design we choose is capable of driving a similar load, so again it went to the front of the system, near the preamp.

This turns out to be a blessing as the custom crossover has a Triode output stage that drives the bass frequencies. I had it designed with a gain control and flange point (EQ at crossover frequency) so it could be altered in case I used different amps on the bass than the high frequencies.

Being near the preamp, I can reduce bass on recordings (such as Donald Fagen "Morph the Cat"), keeping the tonal balance more in line with what I consider "flat."

albertporter

Owner
Rene, I've written my friend who has the Wilson Alexandria, Aesthetix, and VTL Siegfried. I hope to hear from him soon and will put you two together. He has only a few pieces of Purist but I think he is very positive. He also loves the new Transparent top of the line cable.

On tubes, the test of KT88 Wing C is being done by a professional reviewer. He has the Wotan 1250, the VTL 750 and the new Siegfried. I will not disclose our conversations but rather wait for his formal review to be released. Thus far I'm not surprised by his findings and looking forward to hearing (or reading) his conclusion.

My comment about Purist Anniversary being more extended at both ends may have confused you. Perhaps you thought I was referring to Purist Aqueous Anniversary.

Purist Anniversary is the top of the line and is indeed better performance than Aqueous or any version of Dominus. As for mixing, you can mix other Purist cables or any other brands you favor.

There are no hard rules about mixing or matching interconnect and speaker cables, unlimited possibility exist considering all the brands and quality levels within those brands.

albertporter

Owner
Rene, sorry to be slow responding, this was audio night and I had guests.

Purist has evolved their line as all cable makers have done. I think the improvements in the Purist line are stunning. When you ask me to compare with older top line from Purist it's difficult as Dominus has been manufactured for many years. The changes from the original to Rev A, to Rev B, Rev C and the RLS have been slow but powerful changes.

The basic strength of Purist has always been their super black background and musicality. Comparing the earliest Dominus to later versions the bottom end has been tightened up and the high frequencies more extended.

The Ferox follows that same path but adds additional signal to noise and a bit better dynamics at slight expense to the middle midrange.

Purist Anniversary is a hybrid of Dominus Fluid with technology evolved from RLS, Ferox and Contego. The Purist Anniversary has the most extension at both ends I have ever heard (from any cable) and dynamics are similar to the Auctorita (special Dominus) developed for the German market.

I just received the Proteus Provectus yesterday and it's looking very promising. For those that cannot afford Dominus Ferox or Purist Anniversary it's shaping up to be a scary good cable (with only a few hours on it).

As for Wilson teamed up with VTL and Purist. I've been speaking with a fellow Audiophile who I have grown to respect very much. He has Alexandria's with Aesthetix Io and Callisto and VTL Siegfried. Perhaps you could write him, contact me via email and I will ask him if it's OK to give you his address.

Another friend has all three of the big VTL amps and is testing various output tubes. He holds hope for the Wing C KT88 and I may be interested in testing them myself, depending on his comments.

albertporter

Owner
Alvin had to cancel one visit due to unexpected circumstances. I hope to have a firm arrival date from him this or next week.

I too have heard many good things about his turntable and I'm excited at the opportunity to audition it (and photograph it).

I'm building up an old direct drive Technics SP10, waiting for my SME 312S tone arm to arrive from GB. If all three tables (including my reference-Walker Proscenium) were available by the time Alvin arrives, it would be a great opportunity to compare all three technologies.

I think Alvin is bringing a Dynavector XV1s as his reference cartridge. I have a Koetsu Jade Platinum Signature in the Walker and hope to purchase the new AirTight PC1 for the Technics. Swapping cartridges and tables could be a real learning experience. Hope Alvin has enough time to do this, considering his extremely busy schedule.

albertporter

Owner
Perhaps you should re-read the posts.

My acoustics were done by the same gentleman that did Sony CBS, National Public Radio Washington, the private studio for Whitney Houston and NFL Films. Russ and I have been friends for more than 30 years, otherwise I could not have afforded his services.

http://www.rbdg.com/home/index.php

My speakers are line source, as were the speakers before them. Problems that normally exist are minimized by this design and the massive acoustic treatment done to my space takes care of most of the remainder.

Anyway, I'm amused you can conclude precisely what my system sounds like without ever having heard it.

albertporter

Owner
Alvin is bringing the turntable for formal advertising photography. We plan on setting aside time to listen.

albertporter

Owner
Henry,

Sorry, I did not mean to ignore your question about new music.

I've purchased so much new music lately I hardly know where to begin. This is a list of the last two weeks.

Muddy Waters "The Best of Muddy Waters"
Little Walter "The Best of Little Walter"
Sarah Vaughan "Sarah Vaughan"
Elvis Presley "Elvis' Golden Records Volume 3"
Dinah Washington "The Swingin' Miss D"
Elvis Presley "For LP Fans Only"
Mel Torme "Swings Shubert Alley"
The Beatles "Love"
Benny Green "Back On The Scene"
Benny Green "Soul Stirrin'"
Lou Donaldson "Swing and Soul"
Sonny Clark "Dial S for Sonny"
Sonny Clark "Sonny's Crib"
Lou Donladson "Blues Walk"
Dizzy Reese 'Star Bright"
Hank Mobley "Soul Station"
Louis Armstrong "Under the Stars" (45RPM set)

The record that stunned my group this past Tuesday night was the Beatles "Love" and the Dinah Washington. Everything was working perfect and everyone was aware of it. Got two phone calls and several email messages the next day from visitors.

Wish I could make it do that every time I turn it on. Planets must have been in alignment because I changed nothing.

albertporter

Owner
Henry, Thank you very much for the supreme compliment. I designed the room to be a listening room that still invites guests to enjoy my home as a comfortable inviting place.

Although every surface is specially constructed and treated, it passes for a traditional painted living space.

Alvin is due to arrive here within the next few weeks for product photography of his new turntable.

When we get a quiet moment, my plan is to discuss the Grand Prix amp stands and any concern about the carbon fiber shelves supporting my 200 pound amps.

All four of my stands are filled with #7 lead shot as per Alvin's instructions. Honestly I did not do a before and after, so I can't confirm what performance change that brought.

albertporter

Owner
System edited: Removed old amp images (AirTight for ribbons sold long ago). Added VTL 750's on Grand Prix stand image.

albertporter

Owner
I don't know what the add on's are. Can you list those options?

The motor controller is a requirement in my opinion. In fact, the Walker motor controller works miracles on other tables, such as the Basis Debut. I've done the experiment.

albertporter

Owner
The Io with stock tubes is generally not dead quiet and much of the magic is missing because of the Chinese and Russian tubes. However, when I first bought my Io it was totally stock and I listened to it that way for many months before swapping a single tube.

That was a long time ago and perhaps some other phono has closed the gap a bit. But back then, even with all stock tubes the Io outperformed every other phono stage, and by a big margin.

Even today, after nine years of technological advances, the latest Aesthetix Signature Io with all NOS tubes would still come out as the top performer (in my opinion).

Consider too, tube swaps can be done a few at a time to keep budget under control. Even if you only replace the EL34 tubes in the power supply, the Io will respond immediately and that could be accomplished for as little as $85.00 for used Mullards at Ebay.

If you never intend swapping tubes in the Io, the Lamm may be a better choice. I would have to do some listening before I would put my opinion in print.

ARC's front end equipment is not a contender in my opinion, unless we we're comparing ARC Ref preamp to the Callisto preamp (not the Io). The Io is clearly better than any ARC phono I've heard.

However, The Ref 3 is a stunning preamp, very different than the Callisto but at a bare minimum, second choice based on my (thus far) limited comparisons. Some day I'm going to get an ARC Ref 3 for an extended listen and determine exactly how it performs. I've already discussed tube swaps with the factory and I believe I can get more out of it than what I've heard thus far.

No matter the pecking order of these phono's, I'm going to step on feet and say never for the Walker. I've had the Walker phono in my system twice and I was not happy with the results. I simply do not like transistor phono stages and the Walker is 100% transistor. Lloyd is my friend, I think the Walker table is in the top two or three turntables ever to grace the earth, but the phono is simply not my cup of tea.

I don't know if you're looking at new equipment, but I would much prefer a used Aesthetix to save money and spend the difference on NOS tubes. I understand the need to not go crazy with budget but there's also the issue of staying on target, making a purchase that will satisfy you long term and allow you to focus on other parts of system.

albertporter

Owner
I did for approximately two years but with electricity prices going through the roof, I now cycle the system on just before listening.

albertporter

Owner
Jake,

Buying all NOS tubes for the Io is a big investment. Here are my recommendations from Audiogon threads back in 2001.

TUBES FOR AESTHETIX

Regarding the comments by Bud and Rayhall, the 6922 Sovtek would be my first change. For additional midrange and air, try the Siemens 6922 CCa or the Amperex US Military 7308 CEP. If either of these produce too much midrange presence, try the Mullard 6922 (gold pin). Realize, that when you upgrade to one of these higher resolution NOS 6922's you are listening with more intensity to the weaknesses of the remaining (original) tubes. You are judging the replacement, plus all that it exposes downstream. If after changing to the CCa or CEP, you find that there is too much "grit" in the sound, try swapping the 6SN-7 as described in my long post. After that, if you are feeling adventuresome, trade out the first stage 12AX7 tubes (Io only). Note, these 12AX7's are the ones I warned about, get TESTED, ultra noise tubes for this position. My first choice and the most beautiful sound is the Telefunken 12AX7. Other options are the RCA 5751, a US Military version of the 12AX7. The 5751 will alter the tonal balance somewhat, as it is not an exact replacement. There will be a slight loss in gain, with improved signal to noise and lower distortion. Overall, the sound will be a bit more on the dry side. One final suggestion would be the 12AX7 French Mazda. A good sample of this will produce significant improvements in high frequency transparency, especially compared to the Sovtek. However, the Mazda has not been without problems in my experience. The samples I received are not equally reliable or equally low noise. Some will play perfectly for many months while retaining their original "voice" while other samples will develop horrible microphonics and tube noise in as little as a week. This is a situation that could lead to disappointment with the Io, when in fact, the tubes are the culprit. Unfortunately, there must be some risk and experimentation within your own system to determine what is best.

02-01-01: Albertporter
I have used the Io for some time, and was the first to implement the dual power supplies. I have now done this with the Callisto as well. The Callisto is the matching preamp from Aesthetix. On tubes, I started with stock and after some break in, decided to change critical positions to improve the sound. The first four 12AX7 tubes (near the input jacks) are VERY critical, and any noise or microphonics in that position are going to make your life miserable. If you get professional help with any tube selection at all, make it these four. Other tubes that make a big difference is to replace the two Sovtek 6SN7 with the RCA 5692. The old military red base 5692 is the best, but the black plate RCA 6SN7 is a great choice as well. The Sovtek 6922 tubes used in the output of the Io are so bad, that almost any brand is better. I like the Telefunken 6DJ8, the Mullard 6922 white dot, and Amperex 7308 all nearly equal. The sound of these three sets of tubes is radically different, and the correct choice is in the ears of the beholder. The Sovtek 12AX7 tubes used in the outboard power supply, while audible, are not a good place to begin. Going to something extreme like the Telefunken 12AX7 ( as I have ) will be audible, however everything else needs to be at the limit, for this to pay off. Changing the EL34 tubes right beside the 12AX7's (still speaking of power supply) have a large effect on the sound. The two best are the MO Valve KT66 and the Mullard EL34. I have tried almost every tube that will plug in that socket, and these two are by far the best. To respond to the question of reliability, I run my Io 24 hours a day, NEVER turning it off. I pulled the Telefunken 12AX7 and MO Valve KT66 tubes from the two power supplies, and tested them against the recorded numbers from the year before. The loss in trans conductance was only about 12%. At this rate, the power supplies should run 24 / 7 for about 4 or 5 years. Upon testing the main unit, the numbers showed the 5692 (replacement for 6SN7) at about 15% loss in the first year, and the Mullard 6922 white dots (only about 6 months old now) show no loss at all. The main problem with this unit is the fact that ALL the gain is with 9 pin miniature tubes. There are no MOSfets or transistors at all to do this amplification. To make matters more volatile, the circuit uses NO feedback and is run with extremely high gain. This unit will take the .5 MV signal from a moving coil cartridge, and drive 40 feet of interconnect to amps requiring 5 volts peak to peak input signal. There is not another product requiring so much from the first few tubes in a step up stage. This simply means that some people are going to have terrible luck with plugging in tubes (especially UNTESTED) and others will have no problem at all. I think this unit fares pretty well as far as maintenance, but with the small signals from your phono cartridge being magnified with microscope like gain, care must be taken. If you have a problem or make a mistake, it will show up. The good news is that if this phono amplifier is set up correctly, it is without question the best product of it's type I have ever heard. The nearest competitor was the Magnum Opus phono from EASE. The EASE was the evolved version of the Counterpoint SA9, both units designed and manufactured by Mike Elliott. If the SA9 or Magnum Opus phono were still made today, I would tell anyone wanting zero hassle with front end tubes to give these units a listen. They are not as magic, silky or dynamic, because the first stage is a FET, but that FET resolves all the issues I spoke of concerning finding perfect tubes for the first stage. I hope this helps explain what and why and hopefully will allow others to make a decision you can live with. I would be pleased to offer suggestions as to which tubes, if a description of the current system sound is given, and a goal as to what you wish you could change about the sound and tonal balance.
Albertporter  (System | Threads | Answers)

I estimate that replacing every single tube in the Io with the best possible would cost at least $1300.00 and possibly as much as $2500.00 in today's market.

These cream of the crop NOS tubes are becoming increasingly difficult to find and "perfect" versions with absolutely NO noise, no microphonics and no mismatch between sections is extremely difficult.

That being said, Andy at Vintage Tube located some of these perfect tubes and they are currently making music in my Aesthetix gear.

The only salvation from spending this much money for tubes is reliability and life expectantly. The earliest of my NOS tubes were installed in my Io phono in the year 2000. The latest ones (continuing the upgrade) were installed in 2004.

I still have DEAD quiet tubes today after thousands of hours of use and the performance is every bit as good as when they were installed.

Considering that, my investment was a good one. By now I would have gone through an equal dollar amount of lesser tubes, blaming my Io and Callisto for "eating" tubes when poor quality Chinese and Russian tubes are the real problem.

albertporter

Owner
Yes, the Walker Black Diamond with Black Gate motor controller is a big step up from the Kuzma.

As for associated gear, I've tried several AC cables from wall to Walker motor controller and from controller to turntable. The Omega Mikro are top dog and a lot cheaper than my other favorite AC cables. For some reason, for this SPECIFIC job, that design works.

I've tried the same Omega cable on CD player, my crossover and other equipment with lackluster results. It's amazing how system and component dependant some of this is.

Regarding your question about the Lamm versus the Io. Unless you go with NOS tubes and great power cords on the Io you are not hearing it anywhere near what it's capable of. So if that exceeds budget or is too much commitment, go for the Lamm.

Cost no object, I prefer Lamm phono over the Walker phono (by a big margin) and I prefer the Io over the Lamm.

Cables are indeed an issue, especially considering the cost of some of the top performers.

The Walker phono is designed so that the Black Diamond tonearm wires go directly in, eliminating both the cable and the connectors. It's a slick design and saves big bucks by eliminating the need for a premium cable in that spot.

However, one of my friends had his Walker Black Diamond arm built with a few inches additional tonearm wire which allowed him to plug directly into his Io. He choose a premium RCA termination but XLR is also possible.

albertporter

Owner
Azjake,

Assuming you have the Stabi XL and airline, I've heard a direct comparison between it and the older Walker table, both with Koetsu Jade installed (exact same cartridge in each).

The Kuzma held very well, speed accuracy is excellent and micro dynamics are good. The Walker is better overall and with the new Black Diamond arm the Walker soars above anything I've ever heard.

I don't know what Lloyd is offering you in the way of a package, but having heard the Walker phono in my own system I much prefer the Aesthetix Io.

albertporter

Owner
System edited: Equipment added

albertporter

Owner
Laupl, contact info is as follows:

Transition Audio
Tom Tutay
850-244-3041.

He is not an internet guy, so just call and speak with him. My guess is the Dali crossover like mine should cost around $3500.00. Tom builds a similar design for Magneplanar for a bit less.

albertporter

Owner
System edited: Upgraded Walker Proscenium, corrected data.

albertporter

Owner
I've not heard the Pass Labs with Dali Megaline, but the 350.5 is reported to have very good sound.

The only concern I would have, the Dali is very resolved and combined with the stock transistor crossover and transistor amps some music (especially digital) can come off sounding cold or sterile. I heard a demo with the Dynaudio Temptation's driven with older Pass Labs mono's and it was too cool for me, even with the soft Dynaudio tweeter.

If you buy the Dali and do the Pass Labs amps I would love to read the results of your listening tests. Tonal balance is a very personal thing.

Also, if you buy the Dali's new, be prepared for a VERY long break in. Like Kharma, Martin Design and Dynaudio, Dali's require hundreds of hours run in before they produce their best sound.

albertporter

Owner
I may have mentioned CE Distribution, particularly if you're looking for Russian Wing C.

The only problem, you have to have an account to buy from CE. You're welcome to call me to discuss. I can buy from them.

albertporter

Owner
Matt, perhaps with that large an investment you should consider listening before you buy. You're welcome to listen to my Megalines with tube crossover.

If you're interested, just drop me an email and we can work out the details.

albertporter

Owner
Matt,

I prefer the Dali Megaline with tube crossover first, the MM2 as second choice and Kharma Midi third.

The Dali is a line source, so it overcomes many obstacles in room acoustics and has an enormous "walk through" sound stage that is absolutely addictive.

The bass is super fast because there are 24 smaller woofers rather than one or more very large woofers. With the custom tube crossover you can dial in the bass EQ and bass gain separately and accurately, allowing you to set up the speakers perfectly and dial in the bass for your room.

Remember too, the Dali is a two way with only one crossover point. The only way to get more phase accurate is a one way (single driver) and none of those except Sound Lab is full range.

The MM3, the big brother to the speaker you're considering, is the product I awarded product of the year at PFO a few months ago. No question I love the speaker but still feel the Megaline is a better choice.

albertporter

Owner
Matt, the tube crossover not only reduces distortion, it increases high frequency resolution and textures while increasing bass punch.

I have so much more bass now, one member of my audio group always asks:

"OK Albert, where did you hide the sub woofers?"

He knows there's no subs but since the tube crossover and twin VTL 750's, it sounds like there are a couple of big REL's (in perfect phase) adding bass to the Dali's.

In fact, there's so much bass and so much impact, I sometimes have to reduce the volume of the crossover (it's totally adjustable) to BELOW the output voltage of the original transistor unit. This tube unit swings so much more voltage and has so much more pop, the stock unit sounds like a transistor receiver from the 1970's.

As for crossover design, Transition Audio and I came up with the design by reverse engineering the original unit that came with the Dali's.

We are not hogging the design. You can call Tom directly and have one built. There's nothing in it for me money wise. If you lived closer you could look inside and build your own if you're up to the task.

A friend who is a reviewer for Absolute Sound has decided to take the plunge as well. He's having Tom build a simpler version of my unit for his Magneplanar 20.1's. He too has twin VTL 750's and if the improvement is anything like mine, I'll be surprised if he doesn't mention it in a review.

I've covered the crossover in my review at PFO of the Dali Megaline and when I finish "Dali Megaline part 2" that too will go up at PFO. Part two covers my experiences with the crossover.

albertporter

Owner
Nate,

You are the perfect listener aren't you?

Eldartford:
If one likes the planar dispersion pattern (and not everyone does), and can tolerate the "ugly room divider look", Maggies are a very cost-effective alternative to electrostatics.

Yep, I guess Magneplanar are ugly to some people, I like their looks and actually they are downright small compared to Sound-Lab U-1's. Guess it's whatever you get accustomed to.

When I sold my Sound-Lab and bough the Dali Megalines my room looked naked for about 6 months until I the new look grew on me.

Dev, I'll send you an email using Audiogon server.

albertporter

Owner
Eldartford, the Maggie is a wonderful speaker, one of the best in the world in my opinion.

As you know, Magneplanar uses ribbons except for bass. The ribbon used in the Dali is a seven foot long and dipole. Although Magneplanar, Dali and Sound-Lab are very different designs, all are dipole. Maybe that's the unifying character that attracts me to all these speakers.

Dev, I hope I did not run you off with my enthusiastic response. Since this question appeared on my own system thread I spoke my mind. I would have posted a shorter response anywhere else on Audiogon.

Dev, sincere offer: If you are seriously considering Dali Megaline, you're welcome to visit me for a listening session. I have the original transistor crossover and the custom tube version. In one session you could make comparisons that could help you decide if it's the right speaker for you.

albertporter

Owner
Hello Dev.
The Dali Megaline doesn’t sound like other speakers, yet it shares characteristics with several on my top ten list.

It's not a perfect design, it has strengths and weaknesses as all speakers do but it has a major advantage in being a line source.

A great line source has the ability to throw a huge, three dimensional image with almost no negative interaction with the room. Best of all, everyone feels they are a participant, immersed "inside" the music.

There is no need for the old "head in a vice" listening position and swapping places with guests, each taking turns in the hot seat. There is still a believable imaging even standing with your back against a side wall. The sonic penalty being not much worse than you would experience at a live venue. That's something I got easily accustomed to and would have a hard time giving up.

New visitors are often surprised, seeing me sitting comfortably at the extreme end of my sofa, wondering why I don't take the center spot. Then, after a few visits they realize there's great sound to be had in every chair and listening position in the room and suddenly the music becomes fun rather than a hi-fi experience.

Most important, the images and tonality of every recording are faithfully brought into the room, to the time and place the music was originally recorded. I continue to be amazed at how chameleon like the Dali's are, changing drastically with each type of music, sounding like the software and the personality of the venue rather than a pair of speakers.

Attributes of the speakers you mentioned can be heard in the Dali Megaline. Dynamics and warmth like the Dynaudio Master, speed and resolution of the ribbons of the Maggie 20.1, ultra low distortion and freedom of cabinet resonances of the Avalon Diamond and nearly as perfect coherence as can be had from the Sound-Lab Ultimate One.

The bass impact of the Dali does not share the "wallop" of the Evolution MM3, or a Von Schweikert but the Dali is quicker, lower distortion, and has one or more fewer crossover points throughout the region the human ear is so sensitive to.

Having come from Sound-Labs my goal was to find a speaker as coherent as the a single driver system. I found that to be an impossible task so I settled for a two way that offered strengths that the Sound-Lab lacked. Primarily efficiency, high frequency bandwidth and extreme dynamics and (if need) the ability to play at ultra high sound pressure levels with no distortion.

If the Dali has a real weakness it's in the very lowest register of the bass. The 24 6.5" woofers are very fast and very low distortion but lack the push to bring 20 HZ into the room at large sound pressure levels. Speakers capable of this feat beat the Dali in that area and wind up with slower response and/or incorporating additional crossover points to accommodate varying driver sizes and designs.

I must say too, the Dali Megaline in it's stock form with the factory transistor crossover cannot be compared to mine with it's custom tube crossover. I won't get into detail except to say if you're not interested in the tube crossover you probably will not keep the Dali's long term.

albertporter

Owner
That's a very generous offer, allowing me a listen to one of your tapes.

I'm considering subscribing to the Tape Project but after listening to samples of some of the music on AMG I'm torn on the idea.

I'll probably step on some toes here but the Roy Rogers "Slide Zone" is not material I could listen to, even for one pass.

I don't particularly like the Dave Alvin, but Jacqui Naylor is promising and the Arnold Overtures is a well respected work (although I don't know how often I would listen to it).

The price they're asking ($200.00) is cheap considering the effort these guys must have gone to, but it's still a lot of money. Gee, Audiogon members fuss about $50.00 for 45RPM vinyl :^).

If you have not ordered you should visit AMG and sample a few cuts off these albums.

http://www.allmusic.com/

That should help you decide which tape to purchase for trial, provided there's more than one choice this early on.

albertporter

Owner
Ken, thanks for the well wishes. I'm much better and getting back to normal.

Do you know anyone who has signed up for the Tape Project? Perhaps it's too new to have any material released where listeners can report on the quality of the music and recording.

My fear is it may be great sonics but "audiophile" music, if you know what I mean :^).

albertporter

Owner
Thank you Ray, sorry for being slow to respond.

I recently acquired the Richard Thompson MoFi LP that's made up of live recordings from 1985 trough 2003. I forgot what an excellent guitar player this guy is. MoFi did this at 45 RPM so it's great sound wise too.

albertporter

Owner
Thank you Larry. I remained in bed for four days thinking I had the stomach virus my son was afflicted with the previous week.

I guess it's fortunate I survived. I still have to go back for two more CT scans to be sure nothing else was effected.

Any Audiogon members with severe stomach pain (even in the center where your appendix is NOT located) my advice is go get checked anyway.

albertporter

Owner
My sincere thank you to everyone for the well wishes. I would have responded earlier but the severe winds across North Texas put 160K of us without power for nine hours.

Mitch4t, I can do movies but only have the HD Sony Wega (no projector).

The Wega rolls in between the Dali Megalines so it's in the right spot. For dialogue I have the new Icon Vocal 2 Dali and B&W Signature 7 Nautilus built into the walls for side channels.

Quality is not up to some of the great HT systems here at Audiogon, but it works well enough that our family can rent a movie and enjoy it.

albertporter

Owner
Five entry points into my mid section to repair the burst appendix, fortunately they failed to finish me off.

I think they tried, between doses of iodine and barium for CT scans followed two hours later with the surgery (supposed to be on EMPTY stomach). Then they burst blood vessels in my nose while feeding in the camera and blooded both my arms with all the drugs and Intravenous therapy antibiotics.

I think next time I'll just shoot myself :^).

Thanks for asking about me Nate (sincerely).

albertporter

Owner
System edited: Changed photo of Dali custom crossover

albertporter

Owner
No, I didn't. I don't think any buyer would pay retail, just shop around.

albertporter

Owner
That's the bad news, $6,000.00 retail. I don't know what dealers offer in the way of discount. I am not a dealer.

The Keith Monks is (I think) is about $5K landed in NYC. Shipping from NYC to your home and a little discount on the Odyssey and they may be close. Those are the best two around in my opinion.

albertporter

Owner
Justin, I cancelled the Norah Jones after several people reported they were disappointed with it.

The new record cleaning machine is wonderful.

I played a couple of LP's last night that had been thoroughly cleaned (three steps or more) with my VPI 17F.

After everyone had listened for 10-15 minutes I cleaned the LP again with the new machine and everyone was amazed at the improvement.

Record Research fluids were used in all instances, although the change made it sound like a completely different cleaner.

One guy in my group says he's positively buying the Odyssey based on what he heard last night.

albertporter

Owner
Ken, that's quite a statement.

Was it my choice of fine Indian cuisine or the women I pointed out that cinched your opinion of my good taste :^).

With your design and construction abilities, (your turntable project) I could learn a lot from you.

That's NO kidding.

albertporter

Owner
Use the Audiogon server to email me so I don't have to post it here where the spam bots can find it.

Click on my user name (Albertporter) and under it is a link to send email. I will reply to your email and give you my phone number.

If I think can help you, I will give it a shot.

albertporter

Owner
Hello Siddh, I have the Proscenium maple platform under my Walker, the old one finished in super gloss black.

Under the Proscenium base are lead discs and auto body damping compound serving as connection plus damping points to the custom stand. The stand was designed by me and built by Andron Precision in Florida.

I ordered this through Bob at Sound Anchors but he had problems building it, so it was subcontracted to Andron.

The stand is 6061 TIG welded aircraft aluminum with 3/4" threaded stainless rod with 45 degree turned points which serve as "adjustable spike feet."

The stand is filled 2/3 full with Silica from a sand blasting shop. One leg has a copper washer between the lock nut of the stainless rod (spike) and attached to the copper washer is a wire running to true ground. This serves to drain static and any RF signal attracted to the "H" shaped design of the stand.

There's an image at the top of my system thread, just go through the photo's. The shot of the Walker turntable shows it pretty well.

albertporter

Owner
I fear damage from failure of your VTL with tubes other than what is recommended by Luke and Bea could effect your warranty. Ask before putting yourself in jeopardy.

I too have wanted to try the EAT tubes but they are very expensive. I have listened to several 6550 and KT88 including (6550) Wing C, Svetlana and Sovtek. (KT88) JJ Tesla, Chinese (Valve Art?), Svetlana and Sovtek.

Unfortunately these tests were made on an earlier amp, the Tube Research GT400 which is a completely different design.

The two pair of VTL 750's in my system sound well balanced and have great micro detail and dynamics with the Wing C 6550.

albertporter

Owner
Me again Albert,
The dedicated transformer is a very interesting angle. I know some folks in the industrial electrical supply biz so what are the key features I should look for? Can any licensed electrician install this stuff? Is there a particular industry that would use the stuff that would work best for audio? (medical,telcom,research, et.al.?) I value your opinion. Thanks.

In my market, all power transmission is controlled by one electric provider and they abide by the rules of the Public Utility Commission. Private contractors are forbidden to work on the grid, but that might be different in another market.

Here, to get a dedicated transformer, a new drop box, meter base and/or a new line drop, you have to go through your electrical provider. I worked with a supervisor as he was the only one of all the crew that came out that could make those decisions.

He and my private electrical contractor worked out the details including labor, parts upgrades and timing to disconnect the service in the alley.

Based on reputation, I chose the largest electrical contractor in the city to do my work (both inside and out), the same people who wired the computer facility at Texas Instruments. This is primarily a commercial electrical contractor but they will work on residential.

Because of these qualifications, this contractor knew all the technical requirements, rules, parts (and perhaps most important) was on first name basis with senior supervisors of the electrical provider.

It came very close to my having to throw money in the pot to get this done. Typically the electrical provider is responsible for the cost of the drop, the meter and labor. The transformer is replaced only if it's undersized or defective. If you cannot get them to decide in your favor, the cost of the alley upgrade and box falls on you, along with the (already) cost of the private electrical contractor who's rewiring your home.

Fortunately for me, I have the only house in the block with 240 Volt 3 phase electrical. This is a hang over from the doctor that owned my home before me that had installed a commercial Lennox air conditioning system. This system required 3 phase and the electric company complied.

So, when I did a complete reconstruction of my electrical it was not too much of a stretch to get them to "balance" my regular and 3 phase transformers since I was paying my electrical contractor to rebuild everything.

I wound up with a Trans Socket meter, the ultra heavy duty type rated for 750 amps. This design has copper rods inside for the main drop to pass through. A standard meter for residential goes THROUGH the meter itself, and the miles of tiny wire that run the whirling blade that displays and calls out power usage.

My meter calculates power by an Amprobe type device. The pincers clip around the copper rods and display from proximity, rather than breaking the circuit as household meters do. Be warned, this type of box is absolutely huge. Mine is about 20 times the size of my neighbors box, I estimate 1.75 feet wide, 3 feet long and a foot thick, My neighbors is the size of a large cigar box. Sometimes the added weight of the meter and increased drop cable will pull the service off the house.

Planning in advance by adding support to brick veneer by going inside the wall and adding additional 2X4's may be required and neither the electrical service provider or the electrician will do this work. You have to have a construction guy close at hand to get this done quickly so everyone doesn't clear off the job and leave you waiting for them to come back.

I hope my tale helps you understand what is required. i was totally unprepared when I went into this project. Fortunately I have a good understanding of electrical and mechanical things and am self employed, so I was able to dump a bunch of time into this thing to get it going.

albertporter

Owner
The last time I experimented was several years ago, perhaps they have been redesigned since then. Did you try the test with transistor amps or your VTL 450's?

When I did my test I was using Sound-Labs speakers and VTL 750 amps.

albertporter

Owner
Nrostov,

I think M3rags covered that very well with his comments.

In any case, I had an earlier version of the Hydra as well as the super power regenerator made by Accuphase that cost thousands of dollars. Unfortunately, all of these caused as many problem as they eliminated.

My best bargain to date was securing a dedicated transformer in our alley, a 750 amp Trans Socket meter base, all double zero copper runs and three commercial Square D breaker boxes providing 12 dedicated 120 Volt runs and 2 dedicated 240 volt runs, just for the stereo system.

Perhaps a bit over the top, but the total cost to add all this to my home was less than $3900.00. Compared to what people dump into components and power "band aids" I did very well. I think the stereo's electrical supply is one of the most important and most overlooked components in our systems.

albertporter

Owner
Hello M3rags,
Albert, Do you use any type of power conditioner? If you don't, why not? If you do what is it?

I've tried perhaps a half dozen power conditioners and in every case they harmed the sound of my system. Perhaps this is because I have decent electrical where I live, in addition to fourteen dedicated circuits for my system.

When I tested these conditioners, typical results were compression of overall dynamics, particularly in the bass and loss of micro detail in mid and high frequencies. Some conditioners even changed the shape and sound of the entire sound stage, which was strange indeed. There may be power conditioners out there without trade off but I have not heard it.

I do have one device that might be considered a conditioner if a power regenerator qualifies. The motor controller for my Walker Proscenium converts AC to DC and then back to AC again. It has tiny controls accessible with jewelers screwdriver that allow extremely fine pitch control for 33 and 45 separately. I love the improvement this brings to the sound as well as the convenience of not having to move the drive belt for speed change.

I had the Clear Audio motor controller on loan (for photography) and it was not even close to the Walker. In some ways the Walker was better straight into the wall socket than the Clear Audio. Lesson learned, all these devices are different and a great deal of variation in how they perform.

albertporter

Owner
Nrostov,
What are you expecting to gain from this record cleaning machine(other than I assume it's quieter)? Does it clean records better? How will you be able to tell?

This machine is so quiet it can clean records in the room with music playing and not disturb listeners. That is the manufacturers claim, and perhaps next week I will find out.

What do I hope to gain? First of all it would be nice to clean records without having to wear ear protection. The VPI 17F produces about the same noise levels as my shop vac. Plus, If the RCM cleans better than the VPI 17F and the Loricraft, my records will sound better.

After many years of cleaning with my VPI 17F I know what results can be had. Typically I play a brand new record and listen. Clean it with the VPI, listen again and always a hear substantial improvement. There is no question the VPI 17F is superior to the Nitty Gritty which I owned for several years, before it was replaced by the VPI.

My procedure for testing will be to begin with an LP that has already been cleaned, clean it a second time with the VPI 17F and listen. Clean the record again with the RCM and listen again. The test will have to be done multiple times on all kinds of LP's of varying quality.

What would be nice is records that already play with zero noise and zero pops get a sonic boost. Hopefully trashed LP's bought at garage sales and used bookstores will clean up to a silent background and great sound (or as close as possible for bad LP's).

Really damaged LP's cannot be "restored" with any record cleaning machine. If they have been trashed by the previous owner replacement is the only option, same as used, deeply scratched CD's that skip (I got one of those today from Amazon.com :^).

albertporter

Owner
I cannot absolutely confirm it's quality as I have not yet received my record cleaning machine. I will however, explain how this evolved.

Over the last few years I had corresponded with Mr. Keith Monks in Britain, and although I loved his state of the art LP cleaning machine, I never had the cash on hand when he had stock for delivery to the USA.

Sadly, we lost Keith Monks in 2005 to liver Cancer and my last chance to purchase from him was late in 2004. I have always regretted not buying his state of the art machine, especially in light of the Loricraft being sold here that lacked some of the details of the Keith Monks (but admittedly at lower cost).

This month I discovered that the gentleman that built Keith Monks machines for sale outside of the UK is still producing the machine and has improved it in several important ways. This latest version is built completely in West Germany and the quality control is absolutely top notch.

I only have a photo and specifications as supplied by the manufacturer and that was enough for me to order. This new machine is called the RCM (Record Cleaning Machine) and I and Lloyd Walker (Walker Proscenium Turntable) are the first two people to receive this latest version.

I hope to have mine sometime next week and I will report performance gains or losses in tests against my VPI 17F. I have already been told by the German manufacturer that the Loricraft will defeat my 17F (his words) and the RCM will defeat the Loricraft.

I will likely not have the opportunity to test all three at once but if the new RCM is as claimed, I will be delighted.

albertporter

Owner
Thanks for the links David, unfortunately I can't justify the Ampex ATR with my limited open reel collection. In fact, I'm seriously considering selling my restored Ampex 351.

Since I began this journey with the Ampex, I also upgraded my phono cartridge, did a turntable mod, added a factory mod to my phono stage and improved it again (via new Purist Audio umbilical cords) and replaced several AC cables. Now my phono is clearly defeating both of my tape recorders on all but FIRST generation master safety tapes at 15 IPS and half track.

Even master dubs are having a hard time competing with my other analog now, the turntable has evolved into a monster source.

The reason I ask about the Studer is because in the past I have seen some at Ebay, offered by commercial sellers that had restored the machine completely and offered warranty and had lots of positive feedback from buyers.

That might be an upgrade from my Technics that would not break the bank. I don't know that I need to make a decision right now, I'm just in the thinking stages about my sources. Again, thanks for your input on this seldom covered topic.

albertporter

Owner
Hornblower, do you have any experience with performance differences between a commercial (studio version) Studer, the AEG and Ampex 351?

If I added a Studer, it would be later transistor version like my Technics 1520 balanced.

albertporter

Owner
You got me, no Prince.

albertporter

Owner
I do agree with your dance music choices. I love Blondie, Yello, and to a certain degree Kylie Minogue. There was some other stuff from the 80's that was great. How about Depeche Mode, Peter Gabriel, The Cure, or the Psychedelic Furs?

Yes, I have Depeche Mode and Peter Gabriel. Some others from that era that I can think of without looking through all my LP's:

Elvis Costello, Kate Bush, China Crisis, A~Ha, Bryan Ferry, The Bangles, Grace Jones, Crowded House, Fine Young Cannibals, Kraftwerk, Level 42, Men at Work, Oingo Boingo, REM, Squeeze, Talking Heads, Tears for Fears, and XTC.

albertporter

Owner
I have "The New York Remix" and personally I can't stand it. Let me know what you think.

Uh oh, that's what happens when I make buying decisions based on the 10 second clip at All Music Guide.

Maybe I'll luck out and find something to like about it. If not, one of the guys in my group will be happy for me to give it to them.

Did any of the other artists I mentioned appeal to you?

albertporter

Owner
Metallica is outside of my bounds. My limit for metal stops at Queens of the Stone Age, no Black Sabbath or Metallica. I do like the British group The Streets, but they're more garage style, which is a fusion of indy, rock and rap.

Going the other way, no Kenny G or other pseudo- Jazz artists appeal to me either.

For some reason Blondie, Yello, Kylie Minogue and other crazy dance music theme groups make me laugh with delight, and I enjoy them. Last night I ordered a CD by Blank and Jones titled "Monument." It's in that vein but with more electronic influence, like Bjork or Marcus Miller.

Speaking of Marcus Miller, I wish his stuff was on LP. Two of my favorite Miles Davis albums are "Siesta" and "Tutu," both strongly influenced by Marcus Miller working with Miles.

I just received the new 45 RPM reissues of Bill Evans remastered by Steve Hoffman. MAN do those LP's kick some serious butt ! Bill Evans is a genius and these new reissues capture all the color and tone of his introspective style. The other night after listening to several of the new Evans albums I suddenly woke my music group up with my Toshiba Pro Use copy of "Dark Side of The Moon" and then Gotan Project "Lunatico."

The newish Fiona Apple album is on LP, "Extraordinary Machine" is the title and it (even at very low volume) kicks some serious dynamics and bass into my listening space.

Other CD's I have on order that I can't find on LP are:

Adrien Belew, "Side One"
Sierra Swan, "Ladyland"
Vanessa Carlton, "Be Not Nobody"
Missy Higgins, "The Sound of White"
Fiona Apple, "Tidal"
Peter Malick Group with Norah Jones "The New York Remix"

Some of these I'm certain I will like, others are a stab in the dark and may be given away :^). Difficult to hit the bulls eye every time.

albertporter

Owner
Ken, yours is a difficult question. I avoid threads at Audiogon with discussion of Aesthetix except when the topic is the two top models. I hate to say it, but to be completely honest, I do not like the lower line Aesthetix Rhea, Calypso or Janus.

I had them here for photography and although they were here for only a short time, they did not show me any of the magic I get from the Io and Callisto. I don't know about noise of the lower line, that's another issue all to itself.

Considering the impedance should be set for each cartridge as you switch, I don't know of an easy way to achieve this.

If I HAD to have a setup where I did not swap input jacks as I changed cartridges, I would probably have a custom box built using double contact silver switches and wired with best quality tonearm wire (short as possible).

Switching between cartridges, signal would feed to the single input of the best quality phono stage and then to XLR out as you mention. It might be possible for the switches to contain part of the necessary "load" so each cartridge was seeing it's perfect match at the input of the phono stage.

I am not an engineer or a builder, so I could not build such a device. There are craftsmen around that can and if assembled correctly it might be possible to do with almost zero loss.

albertporter

Owner
Hemisferik,

I am not fond of the EH6550C having tested them as well as Tesla and Sovtek with mediocre results. My favorite is Wing C 6550 but confess I have not compared it to the EAT.

I met Jozefina Krahulcova, the CEO of EAT at last years CES. She and I spoke for some time while we visited with Ken at Convergent Audio.

This lady is so feminine and pretty I could hardly stay on the topic of tubes :^). Unfortunately I require 48 outputs for a full swap and the EAT tubes are very expensive compared to the others we are discussing, my understanding is $1100.00 a quad, meaning tube swap on 4 VTL 750's would be $13,200.00.

I will probably never have a chance to make that test.

albertporter

Owner
Ray, this at AMG

Ravishing is the word that springs to the lips: one of those tiresome British understatements, but it'll have to do. Evora has the most glorious voice, the melodies are heartrendingly Portuguese, the guitar-runs have escaped from a fado recording. The classic piano and string group of Miss Perfumada help explain its near-bestselling status, the near-Brazilian rhythms add the zip that tops the whole thing off.

I heard samples at AMG and searching for her work on LP.

albertporter

Owner
Thanks Ray, glad you like the Eels. I will look for Evora, I suppose only available on CD?

albertporter

Owner
My new review of Aesthetix remote is up at PFO. Please have a look if you have time.

http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue28/callisto.htm

albertporter

Owner
I hope your right Greg, it would be nice to see things change for the better.

Steve, thanks for the supreme compliment. I hope you get your music library back to where you can enjoy it again.

albertporter

Owner
System edited: Added to list of components, description and image of new Callisto Remote control.

albertporter

Owner
Steve,

I understand about financial hardship, I have had a very difficult time myself. The photo business has been ravaged by cheap (or free) stock photography, digital imaging and mediocre quality requirements for the internet.

My strength was pulling off the impossible, flying to a location I've never seen, lighting it and the people involved in a creative way and shooting it on FILM, the finally version not certain until it was processed upon return. All of my work was on transparency material and required exposures accurate to within 1/4th of an F stop.

During this last decade many members of my professional organization either lost their studios, went bankrupt or gave up the business to work in other fields. Many art directors that were really supreme designers and creators have retired, died or moved to other fields.

I have a son in college and should be thinking about retirement and instead work 12 hour days. The good news? I have my health, my wife and son and my music. We are blessed in different ways and need to remain thankful for all the positive things life brings.

I sincerely hope you reassemble your music collection, there are lots of memories connected to each song. What I'm saying by telling my story is that I understand, and if there is an LP I have an extra of, maybe I could bring you good luck by mailing it to you.

albertporter

Owner
Steve, if you have more LP's to feed the frenzy.....COME ON. Please bring chips and dip, I have a beer fridge stocked with cold ones.

Thanks for that supreme compliment, your moniker would indicate you're an record guy too. Do you sell LP's?

I ask because a slip of the hand (I tapped the LP with the Walker brass damper clamp) damaged an entire track on Lonnie Johnson with Elmer Snowden, "Blues and Ballads." My copy is the Fantasy OBC-531 re release from the 1990's, and long out of print.

albertporter

Owner
Ultraaudio, yes I play all kinds of music on my system. In fact, I suspect the range of music I have in my library could please or offend almost every Audiogon member, depending on what I chose :^).

I enjoy a wide variety of music, everything from "Maometto II: Giusto ciel, in tal periglio," by Cecilia Bartoli to "Hot" by Squirrel Nut Zippers.

Last week during our regular Tuesday night music session I played:

"Candy," Lee Morgan
"Susan's House," The Eels
"How My Heart Sings," Bill Evans
"Mr. Charlie," Lightning Hopkins
"What A Beautiful World," Jay McShan
"For Beauty of Winona," Daniel Lanois
"Nature," Dave's True Story
"Dead Dog On Asphalt," Adrian Belew
"Burn and Shiver," Azure Ray
"Post," Bjork

And several others that escape my mind at this moment.

albertporter

Owner
Ray, I've only heard samples at music sites, I don't own the album. Is that something you really like or just looking into new music?

As for Eels, If you like "Blinking LIghts," The Eels earlier albums such as "Electro Shock Blues" and "Beautiful Freak" are even better (in my opinion).

For new crazy music, have you heard The Gotan Project? They have two LP's out, the first is difficult to find and is called "La Revancha del Tango." I finally found a copy after a long search.

The second album is called "Lunatico," and I would describe it as Tango meets Indy-dance. Really great music that breaks the FM radio mould of relentless crap for the masses.

At Denver AudioFest Ralph of Atma-Sphere and I went to dinner together as we often do and we listened in his room until late. He had a copy of the Fiona Apple album titled "Extraordinary Machine," on LP and I fell in love with it. Ralph says it gets FM play but I have never heard it in my market.

I've only played it a couple of times but it's offbeat attitude and lyrics appeal to me, at least at this point of exploring it.

albertporter

Owner
Greg,

Not in this case. I've always been able to get what I needed, and long before selling anything. As a supplier of advertising photography to the high end audio trade for more than 20 years, friends and contacts allow me access to anything I want.

albertporter

Owner
Proghead, yes the prices are correct. Purist top line cables are expensive, as are Tara Labs and other premium designs.

Cables are important to performance, just like the rest of the system components. When you consider how many products are available that are MORE expensive than my favorites, it's just proof of how crazy this high end hobby is :^).

albertporter

Owner
Rene,

The only test of 6550 tubes I'm aware of is the one Vacuum Valley did, here are the results.

VTV 6550/KT88 Shoot Out for Hi-Fi

Genalex KT88 Gold Lion 1969 - 4.87
Tung-Sol 6550 1963 Solid Grey Plate - 4.77
JJ KT88 2002 - 4.63
Ei KT90 1999 - 4.52
EH KT88 Reflektor 2002 - 4.16
Svetlana 6550 2001 - 4.13
Svetlana SVKT88 2002 - 4.09
Svetlana SV6550C Reflektor 2002 - 3.98
Phillips Sylvania 1970s - 3.98
Chinese 6550 Valve Art 2002 - 3.89
GE 6550A 1970s - 3.78

If they are correct, the GE is last choice, making the cheaper Russian tubes a better choice. I'm not surprised the Genalex is first place, it's an incredible tube but absolutely impossible to find at a reasonable price.

Personally I prefer the SED Wing C built in St. Petersburg, Russia. Others at Audiogon who's opinion I trust (like Alex) says the KT88 is tops. My guess either one is a good choice and certainly a value among audiophile tubes.

albertporter

Owner
Rene, all audiophiles make decisions about their system based on personal preferences.

Cable designs are like every other audio product, they are NOT perfect, they have a personality. Purist has a personality that I like, so I have used them for more than 20 years. The first time I heard Purist I was using MIT and Audioquest and thought Purist had no chance of competing. Within a couple of years Purist had displaced every cable in my system. Many times new cables were sent to me for photography or evaluation and I gave them the same opportunity to displace my reference.

ALL popular brands of high end cable have something to offer. A tonal balance or imaging strength that causes the listener to sit up and take notice. Every piece of equipment in a high end system contributes to that final sound. Cables are a part of that process.

From all that equipment and cable choice the final product must be as perfect as possible, or at least perfect enough that you can enjoy every piece of software in your library. For me, a system that does not allow me to play all my music is a failure and I have thousands of titles, covering EVERY style of music imaginable.

My problem with any ultra high resolution system (like mine) is getting rid of ALL the problems in the midrange and high frequencies (friends in the audio business call me "bat" ears, because of my sensitivity to ultra high frequencies). Purist does better in those frequencies than any other cable I've auditioned and I have heard dozens.

Perhaps this sensitivity is why I stay with Purist. It has zero ringing or distortion in the mid and high frequencies, allowing me to listen to the music without being aware of the equipment.

I cannot comment on Jorma Design, have not heard it and unless some was loaned to me, I would not venture a guess. The review at PFO was extremely positive so perhaps it's an exceptional cable. I would love to hear it in my own system.

As for the dealer that prefers Transparent, I am not surprised. Each dealer has their favorite, just as each thread about "favorite cable" at Audiogon winds up listing every brand currently manufactured :^).

In the end YOU will have to make cable comparisons in your own system and see what mates up with your equipment and taste.

You're welcome to listen with me if you have the ability to visit. It's much easier to evaluate an opinion when you hear what the other persons standards are. I have a fairly large group of friends, fellow audiophiles and reviewers that I feel comfortable asking about new equipment, and in that way I open up my system to changes that I think have a possibility of displacing what I already own.

Bottom line, you must find your own network of opinions to narrow down your choices and from there listen and decide what's right.

albertporter

Owner
Thank you Dewald !

albertporter

Owner
Ken, (Kftool), The word on the street is the dark green Jade is the "magic" one and the Burma Jade is more analytical without offering any better resolution. If you read Hi-Fi+, the Jade reviewed by Roy Gregory was the dark green.

I ordered the dark green and love it, Logenn (another Audiogon member and part of my audio group) also bought the dark green Jade and he too loves it. I will say the Burma Jade is supposed to be much better than the Koetsu Onyx and all Koetsu stone bodied cartridges are supposed to be better with standard cantilever than the diamond cantilever.

That's good news as the diamond cantilever is MUCH more expensive.

albertporter

Owner
Ray, I have all of Radiohead's music on vinyl, unless they released albums I don't know about and that are not listed at AMG. (Including)

"Pablo Honey"
"OK Computer"
"Kid A"
"Amnesiac"
"I Might Be Wrong" (Live Recordings)
"Hail to the Thief"
(By the way, "Hail to the Thief" is a double LP, 45 RPM! and is excellent sound).

As long as we're talking favorite bands and excellent sound, one of my favorite all time bands is "Eels." I have the following on LP:

"Beautiful Freak"
"Novocaine for the Soul"
"Electro-Shock Blues"
"Daisies of the Galaxy"
"Souljacker"
"Shootenanny!"

I do not have "Blinking Lights and Other Revelations" on LP, I have the CD and the music is good. As far as I know there are NO releases on LP anywhere on planet earth of Blinking Lights, and believe me, I've looked :^).

My favorite Eels LP's are "Beautiful Freak, "Electro-Shock Blues," and "Daisies of the Galaxy." Finding these on LP is difficult and expensive. Prices range from $90.00 to $250.00 per LP, depending on condition.

Oddly enough, the Japanese seem to have most of the copies ever printed and they don't let them go cheap :^).

albertporter

Owner
Ray,

Your post suddenly appeared between Gianluca's question and my answer :^). Must the Audiogon server working overtime.

No, I have not heard any of those albums but will make an internet trip over to AMG and have a sample listen. Any chance those are available as LP if I love them?

As for Radiohead, I too love "The Bends" but my favorite is "Kid A" it's really a treat to listen to late at night with the lights off.

albertporter

Owner
Gianluca,

I still own it but mine was supplied with USA power supplies (2 wall warts) that operate on 120 Volt mains. Are your European 240 volt wall warts still operational?

Also, wonder why you don't return the crossover to Dali for repair or replacement. The Megaline was introduced such a short time ago that your crossover and speakers should still be under factory warranty.

albertporter

Owner
Lag, I'm have a bit of trouble understanding what the Memory Player is. I put the name "Memory Player" in Google and got too many non specific hits, seems to be a generic name.

albertporter

Owner
Thank you Fred, you're welcome to visit again any time.

One day travel will put me in your home town and I will be asking you to return the favor. I would love to hear the Acapella in a proper setting. They impressed me at CES, which is typically a terrible place to evaluate.

I sent you an e-mail thanking you for your gracious post here at Audiogon along with names of my LP vendors in Europe. The LP's you want should still be available, let me know if you need more info on them.

albertporter

Owner
I like them because they’re different, too many rock groups sound alike so I appreciate their oddball approach.

In fact, I like Bjork, Goldfrapp, Kate Bush, Gotan Project and the Eels for the same reason. I have lots of mainstream classical, jazz, blues and rock but have an attraction to groups that bend the rules a little for sake of originality.

albertporter

Owner
Justin, saying it the way you do leads me to believe she likes Radiohead and you do not.

Are you not a fan at all?

albertporter

Owner
I spoke to one of the reviewers at Absolute Sound day before yesterday and he hung up the phone, pumped to review the Jade Platinum Signature. I got a call from Koetsu today saying thanks, that he had called and was getting one.

Buying now is a good idea, regardless if another positive review is published or not. If you decide later that another cartridge is your favorite, the price increase will buffer your loss on resale.

Let me know what you think about it if you go for the Jade. Remember too, the Jade is available in two versions, the Burma Jade the dark green Jade.

You can view my photo of my dark green Jade in my system thread here at Audiogon (see link below).

http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?vaslt&1022712214&view

albertporter

Owner
Dgad, Did you by any chance read the review in HiFi+ by Roy Gregory? His works are true and as accurate a description of the Jade Platinum as I have ever read.

There are lot of great cartridges being built today, more than any other time in audio (in my opinion). The Jade is a mystical blend of music, accuracy and beauty that I find Irresistible. By comparison to the Rosewood Platinum and Onyx it's a whole other breed of Koetsu. Transparent, free of excessive warmth, quick and liquid.

Look up the review by Roy, he compares the Jade Platinum to the other hot brands and lays it on the line.

albertporter

Owner
Funny, you resolved the problem pretty much the same way I did.

The repeat feature is a requirement for me so I bought a new 7" LCD color TV off Ebay for $99.00. It works perfectly for accessing the McCormack OSD features and since this little TV is a flat screen, it can mount behind the equipment, suspended by the quarter twenty bolt hole designed to accommodate its accessory footer.

Cheap, non intrusive and out of sight. Almost as good as if the McCormack had the bright display and repeat features available on the face plate (as you mention).

albertporter

Owner
Audio_fyle, I've used Purist Audio for 20 years and love what they do. The cable I have coming is the new Purist Anniversary AC.

I have not done wide range cable testing in a long time. I've had many of the brands discussed at Audiogon but since most companies evolve their cables each year, it's impossible to know what the performance is on EVERY cable EVERY year (or even month to month :^).

I've never tried the Audience, but many here at Audiogon speak very highly of it. What's important is for you to test in your own system and buy what sounds good to you.

As for software, I completely agree with your comments. Various digital discs vary wildly. Steve has promised to send me some that he thinks shows off the player and I'm really looking forward to that.

He and I have been friend for over 30 years, so it's great to have a top line piece of gear in my system with the McCormack name on it. He and I are also swapping software favorites, he mentioned "Nature" by the group "Dave's True Story" but I've not purchased it yet.

I have a question for you, do you find the remote on the McCormack difficult to use? I'm referring to functions such as track repeat and disc repeat, my McCormack UDP-1 Deluxe must be plugged into a TV to access that particular menu.

albertporter

Owner
Ray, thanks again for the suggestion, those prices are incredible!

I ordered several CD's, some that are not on LP and a couple that are (that I already own). I'm considering an iPod for the gym and I don't believe in downloading music illegally. At $5.99 a disc I can afford to buy the CD, play it in the car and the ripped files into iTunes for the iPod.

I like the McCormack, we played a few CD's this past Tuesday night during our regular music session and it did an excellent job. The Walker is better (no surprise) but mostly we were listening to music that we wanted to hear and not available on LP.

When my new AC cords and interconnect cables arrive I think the McCormack will do even better. Steve and I have been talking about this quite a bit, he says the AC cord is a big deal on his player.

I'll post comments when I've done my work.

albertporter

Owner
Whart, regarding:

Albert- I think you mean the Stabi XL, the Reference has been around for a number of years.

Correct, I guess I knew that but used the word reference in the general sense, in that the table being tested was their best model. I should have called it by it's model number, thanks for adding that !

Kftool, If you have the Stabi XL, it's definitely a world class table. Agile, speed accurate and dynamic. I can't tell exactly why it and the Walker sound so different until the differences in cartridges are excluded.

albertporter

Owner
We set up the Kuzma Air Line on a Kuzma Reference (their best) turntable and placed it on a custom built RixRax stand, right beside the Walker with Walker arm.

The test began about 4th of July and the guy that owns both is a good friend and member of my audio group. Unfortunately he has been traveling in and out of the country, leaving less than four days for the two of us to make adjustments and do listening comparisons since I set this up.

Our first impression is the Kuzma is a world class turntable but impossible to know exactly how it compares with the Walker due to cartridge differences. We just installed a brand new Koetsu Jade Platinum in the Kuzma and comparing against the (well) broken in Koetsu Rosewood Platinum in the Walker.

Step two is to set the Kuzma up in my system so we are comparing two Koetsu Jade Platinum cartridges on both tables. If time is too short for that big move, we will swap cartridges between the Walker and Kuzma in their present location. Hopefully that will reverse any differences in cartridge performance in the set up and allow us to evaluate just the turntable/arm performance.

Of course there is always the possibility that one or the other table/arm combinations would perform better with one cartridge than another. It's complicated even under the best conditions and why I have not made comments here at Audiogon.

albertporter

Owner
Oldoc, good one.

No I am still very much an analog guy. I just purchased a new McCormack UDP-1 Deluxe and want a few more silver discs to justify that digital upgrade :^).

As for the offer from Your Music.com, I signed up and read all the fine print. There seems to be no tricks or catches. You can opt out anytime, there is not even a minimum commitment. We have Ray to thank for that suggestion !

The only negative, their inventory a bit shy of titles, especially compared to Amazon or Tower. No reason I can't buy what they have and go elsewhere for the rest.

albertporter

Owner
Thanks Ray, I think that's the one. In any case at $5.99 a disc I'm loading up on a couple of dozen.

Thank you for responding.

albertporter

Owner
There was a recent thread here at Audiogon where someone mentioned rock bottom prices on CD's. It think shipping was included.

Does anyone remember that post or have suggestions that match up?

albertporter

Owner
That's good news Justin, I hope to do a DVD video test next week. Tomorrow night my music group meets and we'll spend some time playing CD's.

I know the McCormack will continue to break in for at least another month but it will be nice to see how it does early on.

albertporter

Owner
Audio_fyle, thanks for making me aware of the UDP-1. Steve McCormack and I have been friends for nearly 30 years and yet I never got around to trying his highly rated player.

To be honest, I've avoided making any serious evaluation as Steve warned me it requires at least 150 hours (like most CD players) before it begins to open up.

I did a quick listen when it was first plugged in and was impressed with the extension on the high frequencies without the usual glare and fatigue. I recently had the new Cary CD player here, so I am eager to see how the two stack up.

Have you used your McCormack for DVD movies?

I read a couple of reviews critical of the Pioneer DVD circuitry used for Steve's player. Most critical was the test in "Secrets of Home Theatre and High Fidelity."

However, they also slammed the Sony 9000ES and I thought it did a good job on image quality. Perhaps they are not a great source for evaluating video, or perhaps I pay more attention to still images and don't view movies with the same critical eye.

albertporter

Owner
Hello Whart.

I set that table, arm and cartridge up at a friends home (the guy that bought it) and have been listening to it and the Walker for about a month. The problem is it's not on my system and the two tables have different cartridges.

I will say that the Kuzma with Airline arm is absolutely world class in every way. I would not attempt at this point to rate it against the Walker without more listening.

What comes next is swapping cartridges between the Walker and Kuzma in my friends system and listening that way for awhile. Hopefully I can tell better what is contributing to the sound then.

Fortunately the cartridges involved are familiar to me. The Walker has a Rosewood Platinum Sig and the Kuzma has a Jade Platinum Sig. These two cartridges are sufficiently different that I refuse to make a judgement just yet.

The only fear I have about the Kuzma in my room is feedback.

It's suggested that wall mount is the only way to get isolation with Stabi XL and a suspended floor (which I have). The air suspension system on the Walker takes care of that in my room but Kuzma warns against going to an air suspension system as it harms the performance.

I may not be able to test in my space. We will see.

albertporter

Owner
System edited: Added McCormack UDP-1 Deluxe, replaced my Sony 9000es. I could not find an image anywhere on the web of the UDP-1 in black, so I shot a photo of mine.

albertporter

Owner
My Sony's 5 year warranty expired a few months ago, buying a new player from Steve resets my warranty until we see what comes from Blu-Ray and HD DVD.

The McCormack is supposed to be excellent sound and DVD images at least equal to my present Sony, which I am OK with.

albertporter

Owner
Justin, thanks for the data. I'm asking around to see what reaction this has gotten from others.

Also, I'm upgrading my digital, selling my Sony 9000es.

I ordered the new McCormack UDP1 Deluxe player, hope to have it in a week or so. I will post an image with it's BLACK faceplate :^) I special ordered.

albertporter

Owner
How much is it and how much power can you pull through it?

Have you listened long enough to have an opinion as to what it does tonal balance wise or distortion wise?

albertporter

Owner
Gregadd, you did exactly what I would have advised.

The Sound Anchor web site has a wealth of info. Best of all, Bob builds custom designs for a reasonable price. I'm amazed at the quality of the welding and finish for the amount of money spent.

I have Bob building me a custom rack stand with wheels for my Ampex 351. I'll shoot a few images and post them here when I get it up and running.

I sent a drawing of my ideas and measurements and Bob and I worked out the details via phone and email. He's an easy guy to get along with, just crazy busy sometimes.

albertporter

Owner
I would save my money and purchase used VTL 750's with Infinicaps. Many 750's were built by VTL with both the resistor and Infinicap mod from the factory.

What you propose doing to the 450's will not add resale value to your amps and with shipping could cost 2K.

750's are frequently available for 10K (or less), sell your 450's for 5K, save the 2K you were going to spend and your close to having a superior, more powerful amp that will continue to be worth about what you paid. Better still, it will have the upgrades you want without down time or risk of damage from a round trip to the factory.

albertporter

Owner
Sorry I did not respond sooner. What caps are in the 450 now, MIT ?

albertporter

Owner
I've never purchased a new VTL amp, all four of mine were bought used.

However, based on a dozen or so other tube amps I've purchased new, I estimate 200 to 600 hours break in depending on circuit design, brand of caps and tube type.

Does your new VTL 450 have a single 12AT7 input tube and twin 6350's driving 6550 outputs? If yes, I would try a Telefunken 12AT 7 for input tube and in the twin 6350 position, either Telefunken 6463 or RCA black plate 6350.

I just received ten 1957 GE square getter 6364's that look awesome. I plan on testing them against the RCA black plate 6350 and the Telefunken 6463. It's nice to have so many spares on hand.

albertporter

Owner
Justin, your comments about the Toshiba seem to mirror those of other Audiogon members, what a great community! So glad I read those and waited for your response before spending money on a DVD/CD that's not the best choice.

Also, your comments about the VTL are what I thought your reaction would be. Did you purchase this new or does it have hours on it?

albertporter

Owner
Justin, regarding your post:

After listening to a CD on the Toshiba I think I am going to keep my Pioneer Elite for CD, SACD, and DVD-A playback. However I was using the Sunfire as the preamp so I will let you know how it sounds when I plug it into the CJ.

Let me know as soon as you do that experiment.

Not to burst any bubbles, but I need one player that will do it all. I don't want better DVD at the expense of my CD playback or better CD with worse movies.

I do not have room for more players, my shelves are full as is. So, if this one will outperform the Sony 9000 I am go on it.

albertporter

Owner
Dgad, I agree with your experiences with the VTL 750. I love mine in Tetrode and was disappointed with Triode. Triode was lackluster, non dynamic and seemed looser and less controlled.

Perhaps your comments about the output transformer and design are correct. In any case our listening results seem to be the same.

albertporter

Owner
Nrostov, Funny you mention the Toshiba HD DVD, a good friend who's opinion I respect a lot says go to Best Buy and get one now. He too remarked at how much improved standard DVD's were with that player.

After that conversation I looked at posts here at Audiogon and some members were complaining about inability to access DTS and the sound being several DB down on certain output jacks.

Have you tested yours thoroughly enough to know if your player has resolved those issues? Also, what is your take on stereo playback sound? I currently have a Sony es9000 that's a decent player for SACD, redbook CD and DVD. I don't doubt the new Toshiba is better on movies but doubt it plays SACD and wonder about redbook quality playback.

albertporter

Owner
Don't switch while the amp is on, other than that you can experiment to see what you prefer. On my VTL 750's I prefer Tetrode over Triode.

Once you get accustomed to them I can give you suggestions for tube swaps.

albertporter

Owner
I think everyone loves Miles Davis and I'm no different, I must have 30 or 40 Miles LP's. I think your point and mine are the same, there are lots of choices in Jazz and we should experiment with new music.

I don't think I have the Dizzy/Parker album you mention but I do have multiple albums by both of those artists.

albertporter

Owner
I didn't know that these guys were overlooked. Who exactly do people talk about when they discuss great music?

Just take a look at the forums here at Audiogon, the Jazz scene is covered but typically only superficially.

There are literally hundreds of great albums from that era and yet everyone discusses Miles Davis, "Kind of Blue" and other titles without digging any deeper.

albertporter

Owner
Justin, I agree it's a great album.

I bought the Duke Ellington/Johnny Hodges original and later, the single sided 45 RPM pressings as well, because I liked the music so much.

Judging from your reaction, you might look for one of the Coleman Hawkins/Ben Webster collaboration’s. There are several, including one of my favorites: "Coleman Hawkins Encounters Ben Webster" (on Verve LP). The music is absolutely amazing and the same sound quality you describe.

I have perhaps two thousand Jazz LP's, I wish you lived close enough to sit in on one of our group listening sessions, bet you would find a long list of music to chase.

It’s amazing how often these old Jazz giants are overlooked when discussing great music, glad you brought this topic up.

albertporter

Owner
Siemens tubes returned in excellent condition, thanks for shipping them so promptly.

I sincerely hope you find the right tubes for your CJ.

albertporter

Owner
Nrostov, sorry the tubes I loaned you did not clear the CJ chassis, that Siemens model is extra tall.

Let me know what tubes you choose if only for future reference.

albertporter

Owner
New Old Stock. Sorry, everyone uses the abbreviation and I got into the habit as well.

albertporter

Owner
Justin, those are NOS, have zero hours on them. I don't know how they will react in your CJ, but assume 15-20 hours will tell you everything you need to know.

Don't worry if they are not to your liking, no obligation at all. There are lots of that tube type built and each is a bit different in sound. Some people are crazy about Siemens and some not.

Let me know how you do.

albertporter

Owner
Dave,

Analog front end, boy that's a tough one to try and guess for you. There are so many great entry level tables, probably more than any other time in audio. I guess going from least expensive (but good) to more preferred:

(1) Used Well Tempered with Well Tempered arm and decent moving coil cartridge. A great cartridge (don't know if it's suitable for that Well Tempered Arm) is the Denon 103R. The table and arm should be about $600.00, or was last year when I searched Audiogon for some weeks for a friend.

(2) VPI Aeries with used SME arm or maybe the VPI Memorial. Used this would be a good value and new (at discount) is still not crazy money.

(3) This gets tougher. Could say VPI, Basis, or any top quality table that might show up at Audiogon at a deal. Again, arm and cartridge depending on budget but same suggestions above will work here too.

If you have a lot of money to spend, there are amazing tables built today, Kuzma with Kuzma arm, Loricraft with SME or Kuzma arm, a used Walker or even the new Grand Prix. I have not heard the Grand Prix but Dave Robinson at PFO says it's REALLY good. I spoke to him a couple of weeks ago.

If you feel stuck on the turntable deal, send me an email with your phone number and we can talk. I would love for you to be happy with your Dali's.

The Dali aftermarket tube crossover is not crazy money, I'm not involved in the transaction (nor make anything). Any potential buyers contact Tom Tutay directly and work out the details. I think he sells it for about $3500.00 with NOS tubes and everything necessary to plug and play.

I cannot comment on the Cary preamp, have not had the pleasure of hearing it.

albertporter

Owner
Clark,

The template provided by Dali worked perfect in my room. Listening with eyes closed, you cannot tell where the speakers are and the soundstage, depth and musical placement changes with each recording. To me, this means the speakers and room are doing a good job of mimicking the whole presentation of where and how the recording was done.

Other than the template, my trial and error listening tests wound up with the Dali in almost exactly the same position as my Sound-Lab Ultimates and within a fraction of an inch of George Cardas setup rules for dipole speakers.

In the end, my overall presentation was MUCH too electronic, especially after living with Sound-Lab for 15 years and my best friends system running Kharma Exquisite 1De's. After building the tube crossover I can say with confidence, the factory active Dali crossover is responsible for any and all problem associated with this speaker.

I mentioned this in my Dali Megaline review at PFO and nearly a year later in Hi Fi+, Paul Messenger said he suspected the lack of dynamics in his test pair of Dali Megalines was due to the factory crossover with their tiny wall wart power supplies.

Both of us had suspicions, I solved the issue last year by having an all tube crossover designed which put the Megaline in the category of being the best speaker I've ever owned or heard.

To be completely fair, the other things responsible for pushing my system to where it is today, were the Grand Prix Audio isolation stands and my decision to go "over the top" with four VTL 750 amplifiers with all NOS input and driver tubes.

I don't know the other components in your system, and I am unfamiliar the sound of your transistor ARC amps. I have suspicion that the tube crossover would work wonders for you too but in the end it may require tube amps as well.

Whatever you do, the two stereo or four mono amps required to drive the Megaline MUST BE ABSOLUTELY the same in every way. Same tubes (if tube based), same amp stand, same speaker cables and same power cords. You cannot achieve accurate tonal balance, believable dynamics and accurate soundstage unless everything is perfectly matched.

Originally I didn't believe this and spent 7 months with a dozen amps, matching gain and tweaking to achieve integration of "different" amp strengths into the ribbons and bass.

Believe me, it was a waste of time (other than learning a lot), it does not work unless all are the same, so choosing an amp that's perfect for both ribbons and multiple small woofers becomes the real challenge and big tube amps with great output transformers turned out to be just the thing.

albertporter

Owner
Ken, tubes are brand new, test perfect and everything looks right, but this is a tricky Ampex to troubleshoot. I had it custom built with two head blocks.

(1) Is original Ampex 351 half track record and play.

(2) Is half track AND quarter track play, no record.

The EQ was tricky to implement on this rig and switching is likely the issue with this second head stack.

The half track plays on both preamps but the quarter track only plays on right channel. I swapped head cables and the problem stayed with the preamp, meaning the heads and wiring (up to that point) are good.

I played a couple of half track tapes before digging into the quarter track problem and the sound was excellent. The designer is supposed to call me again tomorrow to get me running, otherwise I will ship back the one preamp.

By the way, this Ampex has ALL Allen Bradley pots (not a joke). A very old and very fine US company.

albertporter

Owner
Hello Ken.

I choose the VPI 17F, I purchased it many years ago as an upgrade from the Nitty Gritty I had owned for some time. The VPI is excellent, probably the best available when I purchased it. Today VPI has an upgrade version and the Keith Monks has been resurrected in the form of the new Loricraft.

Word is the Loricraft is superior to the VPI but I have not made the test. The Loricraft is on my "wish list" but it's very expensive and every time I hear the results of my VPI I loose motivation to spend the money.

I am currently having problems with one channel of my Ampex, hoping the guy that rebuilt it will be able to trouble shoot over the phone. I'm eager to hear it.

albertporter

Owner
I have no problem with tape noise. Sound quality is difficult to compare as I seldom purchase the same material more than once. The only piece of music I have in all three formats is Miles Davis, "Kind of Blue" (surprise, yawn :^) and I would rate LP first, open reel second and CD third.

The tapes that are original safety's or master dubs are equal or better than my Walker but I only have a few of these. Getting genuine "original" master material is extremely difficult and even a few copies away from the master, the sound is diminished significantly.

I think overall open reel sound will be improved when the Ampex is up and running. There are only a few open reel machines suitable for home environment that can compete with a restored Ampex 351.

As for existing music, prerecorded open reel music varies as much as LP and CD. The best ones are perhaps 75% of my turntable and maybe 40% better than my best CD's. (Sorry to use percentages, it's difficult to explain subjective differences).

I have no issue with the print-through you mention. Perhaps it's the specific material you had, or tape head design / alignment ?

albertporter

Owner
Hello Mitch. Yes, I frequently play my open reel, alternating between it and my turntable during most of our listening sessions.

I currently run the Technics 1520 until Sound Anchors finishes the custom rack for my Ampex 351. I expect the Ampex to displace the Technics.

For software, I've already purchased over 150 open reel tapes (Ebay), all are 7.5 IPS play speed. Many are excellent, artists such as Miles Davis, Dave Brubeck, Sonny Rollins, Art Blakey, Dizzy Gillespie, The Modern Jazz Quartet, Les McCann, Bill Evans and such.

In vocal category, I had no problem finding Carmen McRae, Sarah Vaughn, Ella Fitzgerald, Keely Smith, Julie London, Peggy Lee, Frank Sinatra, Ray Charles, Bob Dylan and Nat King Cole. I even found a copy of the original Doors album and some fun stuff from Creedence Clearwater, James Brown and Joe Cocker.

On master dubs, they play at 15IPS and are all half track. The Technics can switch between heads and speed to accommodate all formats.

I do not record from LP or CD, the idea was to have another analog format that is enjoyable and access to master dubs and safety's that otherwise I would never hear. I have several tapes that are wonderful music, in fact important music, that cannot be found on any other format.

As for black reels, you might find those at Ebay. Suggest you search "Technics and black" together and see if you get a hit.

albertporter

Owner
I just received the first Aesthetix remote control kit delivered to an individual. It is a discrete design based on stepper motors with an outboard power supply and a black anodized piece that resembles a miniature Callisto.

The miniature unit is absolutely beautiful and houses two numerical display's that represent user volume settings for the right and left channels. This hooks up via a familiar looking multi pin computer cord and has sufficient wire length to place on top of the Callisto or a few feet on another shelf.

I hope to have this installed in my system soon and will report on to the difficulty level of doing the conversion.

Audiogon members wanting this Aesthetix Callisto upgrade should have it available as a factory installed version right now. Field installed will depend on my results and which dealers want to tackle the job.

albertporter

Owner
Justin,

Dinner was great, steak for me, seafood for my wife and her mom.

I hope your vacation brings you through Dallas so you can meet some of the other guys in my audio group as well.

If your here more than one evening, we can listen to other systems too. One guy in my group lives only 10 minutes away with almost identical components except Kharma Exquisite 1De speakers instead of Dali Megalines. They are very different but equally wonderful.

albertporter

Owner
Good news about the NOS tubes, I'm not surprised it brought your system up. I have a post here at Audiogon outlining tube swaps in the top two pieces of Aesthetix gear. I can provide a link if your interested in reading it.

By the way, I just hung up the phone with Jim White, owner of Aesthetix. He has shipped the remote control for my Aesthetix Callisto and the detailed instructions included should allow me to upgrade my preamp in the field.

If I am successful, I will shoot high resolution digital images and write a review/report for Positive Feedback. I have been terribly behind in getting reviews written. Thank goodness they are kind about it.

albertporter

Owner
Jjhf5678, you have a great system, keep an eye open at Audiogon, this seems to be the place for VTL 750's. A friend of mine that is a reviewer for Absolute Sound purchased two pair of VTL 750 off Audiogon in the last couple of months. He mentions the performance of the 750 in this months upcoming review of an other product. It is an exceptional amp.

It has become very popular, what with new models that match it in performance costing 40K plus, and typically selling below 10K in excellent condition here at Audiogon.

albertporter

Owner
Thank you Justin.

albertporter

Owner
If the guys that invented Redbook CD, Sony and Phillips, were to put their full weight behind a state of the art digital format, I think they could pull it off.

These guys are not dumb, the problem is they do the minimum required to make a buck. As you said, most people are satisfied with the status quo.

A good example is Macintosh computer. They recently passed the one billion sales mark, (yes, 1 billion legal downloads) at near a buck a pop.

Frankly, those of us that care about quality are completely overshadowed by the lure of a billion dollars in sales of cheap compressed digital. It won't be too far in the future when they convince the public they're better off downloading than getting the silver disc and plastic case.

For the people that own the music, what's to think about?

Billions of dollars in sales and profit with no cost of packaging, no artwork to print, no paper or packing, no shipping to retailers, no profit to share with a retailer, cash in advance electronically before the sale and no product returned for credit later on.

I'm going to buy all the "hard" LP's software I can :^).

What follows is an interesting article from "The Business Online" (U.K.)

Back in the groove

14 May 2006

Technology Editor Tony Glover reports how in the iPod age the record industry is going forward by returning to the days of vinyl. BESET by digital piracy and increasing customer reluctance to pay for CDs, the music industry is fighting back with its latest technology - black vinyl records.

Music labels and high street retailers are busy turning back the Industry’s clock to a time not only before internet song downloads, but also before CDs or even audio cassettes. The irony is that the vinyl revolution is being led by teenage consumers who are prepared to stand in line for the latest 45 rpm single or 331/3rpm LP (long-playing record) in much the same way that their parents, or in some cases their grandparents, did.

According to Rob Campkin, the head of Music at Virgin Megastores, vinyl is now outselling CDs when it comes to the latest records.

"Up to 70% of sales of new releases are vinyl. The fans of popular new rock bands like Arctic Monkeys and The Raconteurs prefer vinyl to CD," said Campkin. "When the Raconteurs' latest single was released, 80% of high-street sales were for seven-inch vinyl and only 20% were for CDs."

"We are not just talking about vinyl singles but also about albums - the format is just continuing to grow," said HMV spokesman Gennaro Castaldo.

The trend is born out by figures from record industry body, the British Phonographic Industry (BPI). According to the BPI's findings, vinyl records are a technology that has come back from the brink of extinction to take the industry by storm. Between 2001 and 2005, annual sales of vinyl single in the UK rose sixfold to over 1m, accounting for 14.7% of all physical singles sales in 2005, up from 12.2% in 2004. The industry expects vinyl figures for the current year to be even more dramatic.

The vinyl revolution has caught many of the big music labels napping. It is the smaller independent labels who have been able to snap up successful new bands. This has left big players in the industry, such as EMI, scratching their heads and wondering why teenagers are embracing a technology the music industry had dismissed as outdated and obsolete before most of them were born.

Record labels like EMI are finding themselves losing the next generation of music stars to upstart labels like Domino Records, which handles hit bands Franz Ferdinand and Arctic Monkeys, and Rough Trade, which handles The Strokes and rock music's latest human disaster area, Pete Doherty.

According to Virgin's Campkin, the smaller independents have one key advantage over the larger labels as far as the artists are concerned.

"The independent labels will release material on vinyl where the more established are more reluctant to do this," said Campkin.

One reason for this situation is believed to be that the mainstream music industry has forsaken vinyl to the extent that there is now no big vinyl processing plant in the UK. This means that the discs must be pressed offshore and that a large number of new vinyl recordings are limited editions that quickly become collectors' items. This type of operation, where limited pressings are carried out by factories in other countries, is better suited to the independent labels than to the more established players.

Virgin also reports a trend where fans will buy the CD when it is released and will wait weeks or months until the vinyl release before buying that as well. Some vinyl albums, such as the last White Stripes release, continue to sell consistently for months.

In addition to the new releases, retailers Virgin and HMV report a growing demand for classic pop records on vinyl from artists such as The Rolling Stones and Bob Dylan. Market research has shown that these new releases of older material are often being bought by younger customers, just as older "baby boomers" are increasingly augmenting their collections with LP's from modern artists such as the White Stripes.

"The original baby boomers, who are now in their fifties, are not only buying classic pop records by the Beatles or the Stones but are also adding new artists from the independent labels to their collections,' said HMV's Castaldo.

According to Virgin's Campkin, one major reason for the renewed popularity of vinyl is its collectability, which operates on two levels. On one level, collectability means seeing the value of a 99 pence (E1.43, $1.73) single CD increases 50-fold in a single year.

"The first 7-inch single release from Arctic Monkeys, which came out a year ago, is now selling on eBay for 50-60," said Campkin.

He added that the second sort of collectability is the desire to own a record collection of one's own.

"Vinyl is far more iconic in this respect," said Campkin. "The record
sleeve offers the consumer art work as well as information about the performers and song lyrics."

Some well-known music figures believe that the industry did itself
irreparable damage when it switched to CDs 20 years ago.

Roger Daltrey, lead singer of 1960s supergroup The Who, said in a recent interview: "The record labels sold everybody a white elephant with the CD. They pushed it over as being this wonderful musical formula that you can play forever that sounds better and is scratch proof.

None of it was true; CDs do not sound as good as vinyl and they last for five minutes."

Like other artists of his generation, Daltrey believes that pop music generally sounds better on vinyl as so much of it was originally developed to be played on the vinyl format rather than on digital equipment. Vinyl enthusiasts say that the bass and vocals on most songs cannot be accurately reproduced on a compressed digital format and that the music inevitably loses something by being reduced to what is essentially just a binary computer code.

Daltrey also believes that record sleeves are a key part of the attraction of vinyl. "We threw away an art form that was so much more than the record," said Daltrey. "The size of the cover was perfect for art work. Sometimes the covers were more important than the music. The more fingerprints you got on it, the more it was a part of you. With a CD, you start with a nice plastic box and end with a scratched plastic box; it has no character whatsoever."

Campkin said: "I think the record sleeve is paramount. With a vinyl album you feel you have spent 10-15 on something tangible that will last."

Daltrey also believes that it was the switch to CDs that ultimately led to the music labels' horrendous problems with digital music piracy.

"The problem with the CD is that if you can copy what is on it for nothing, as you now can, why would you want to buy it?"

Music retailers such as Virgin and HMV are also coming to the conclusion that consumers want a return to a more tangible format.

They fear that the logical conclusion to the evolution of digital music is a world without high street music retailers where fans do everything over the internet and download all their music via a PC.

Virgin plans to opens a new 25,000 square-foot Virgin Megastore in Manchester's Arndale shopping centre that it hopes will transform the way consumers perceive record stores. More space than ever will be dedicated to vinyl records and customers will have access to turntable and listening booths in the same way that teenagers did in the 1950s and 1960s. The store will also offer "chill-out" areas with armchairs and sofas where customers can relax and listen to music.

Virgin plans to use the same formula in other stores in the hope that it will be able to persuade teenagers to see the megastores as social venues as much as music shops. The company hopes that the strategy will enable it to offer consumers enough added value to head off growing competition from cut-price supermarket CD offers and internet download services. The music retailers do not believe that vinyl will ever entirely replace digital music formats. Instead, they predict that the same fans will often subscribe to both formats by downloading music for their MP3 players and PCs but will also wait for the vinyl release to add that to their permanent record collections.

Virgin believes that digital music downloads may not be as big a phenomenon as some the industry anticipates and will account for no more than 10% of the overall market by 2009 and that the appeal of vinyl will continue to grow to shoppers who want to take home something tangible and lasting.

Those industry players which do not become part of the vinyl revolution will see their market share decline as smaller nimbler players snap up the new artists and establish brand loyalty with an increasingly vinyl-hungry record buying public.

albertporter

Owner
Sure, I would love to have a better CD player.

Problem is, a cheap machine like my Sony 9000es does a respectable job and moving up the digital line (spending 25K +), provides performance that's maybe half way between the Sony and the best analog.

I've had multiple high end digital rigs in my system (one as recently as 6 weeks ago), and heard the restrictions of the format. I would pay $35K for a digital format that had plenty of available software and equaled my analog.

There are literally dozens of high end manufacturers striving to build the ultimate machine. No question there are differences, some are clearly superior to others, but all are restricted to limits of the old Redbook format.

Perhaps when (and if) Blu-Ray makes it's entry, some enterprising company will make use of all that data space and build a format with enough digital bits to go head to head with the ultimate that analog has to offer.

I would love for that to happen. I am no different than anyone else, I prefer sitting on the sofa and pushing the remote to change tracks if there was no downside.

Until then, I will get up and do the work required to spin LP's. I don't want to wait for a format that may never come after spending all this money on my system.

albertporter

Owner
Nrostov,

I sold them many years ago and thought they were good. I was a closet Marantz guy, listening to their top tier stuff at home and selling McIntosh at the store. We were the exclusive McIntosh dealer and Marantz was their biggest competitor.

McIntosh employs a different design than anyone else, (unless they have changed). The Autoformer is unique to them and people seem to love it or hate it.

I guess I am one of the few that straddles the fence. I would not consider it for my own system but can easily imagine a world class system with McIntosh powering it.

Remember too, the Marantz stuff I liked was built in New York, it was the old classic tube stuff by Sol Marantz himself.

albertporter

Owner
Frank,

Dealers are like everyone else, including reviewers and Audiogon members, all are entitled to an opinion. Sometimes dealers like a brand because they sell it and are familiar with it, they may even have it in their own system, just like you and I have VTL.

There are lots of ways to get great sound, what's important is working with what pleases you and tweaking it until you no longer pay attention to the equipment and can only listen to the music :^).

In spite of my new power cords breaking in, we had an earth moving experience with my system this last Tuesday night, EVERYONE was raving.

It really makes you feel good when you get it working right and everyone enjoy's it with you.

albertporter

Owner
Nrostov,

I'm not surprised the Puppies sounded good with VTL. The big VTL and big ARC have some common personality traits. I've heard both amps do spectacular things with many different speakers.

As for MBL, I can't say I like anything I've heard from them. I appreciate their great German engineering (my camera's depend on their optics!), but in audio they always come off as sterile and cold, making it hard for me to remain emotionally involved.

When I listen to music I am not looking for hi fi, I want to be swept away emotionally and believe for a little while that I am part of the music.

albertporter

Owner
Dgad, perhaps I'll drag out the Hickok and test all the Telefunken tubes including the 12AT7's. It would be nice if that was all that was wrong.

The 6463 Telefunkens sound so much better than stock VTL tubes I would have a hard time going back. Perhaps tweaking tubes will allow all four 750 to work with them.

albertporter

Owner
Nrostov,

I am not surprised at the variation in sound at the Stereophile Show. I've attended many times and seldom been impressed with the sound. As I've said in other threads here at Audiogon, if a room sounds bad it's not a surprise, if the room sounds good you might investigate further the products involved.

Perfect example is your reaction to the Temptations. I know you love yours and yet at the show they did not sound good. I've heard the Dali Megaline at several shows and all but one time they were terrible.

I too heard the Wilson Watt Puppy sound good, I even remember the room, it was the Audio Research display at CES (off site) with an analog source and all tube REF gear. At others shows I was not moved by the Watt Puppy.

Regarding your comments:

I have to say I am very biased. When I walk into a room I can tell immediately if it is digital. Then I lose all interest in their the gear. I guess I would make a terrible reviewer.

Or you could just be honest, tell your editor everyone is better off if you're not assigned reviews of digital products, knowing in advance there cannot be a positive conclusion.

Similar to pre excluding jury members on an important trial :^).

albertporter

Owner
Gunbei, not creative, necessity :^).

Leaving the big screen TV between the speakers hurts the sound, rolling it off to one side resolves the issue.

My DIrecTV box has a feed going to my HT rig. It's possible to do the 5.1 or DTS decode off air, provided there is proper signal.

albertporter

Owner
Gunbei,

The TV is on wheels, rolls in between the Dali Megalines. There is a Dali center channel under the TV on a shelf and B&W speakers built in the side walls.

There are hook up connections on the back of the TV and rolling TV stand for the DVD, HDMI and power for dialogue channel.

The decoder-amplifier feeds the sides and dialogue and line level signal for "front" channel goes in Aesthetix Callisto preamp so the VTL's and Megalines become part of the HT system.

I set the volume on the Aesthetix preamp the same each time and use the remote of the Dolby DTS to control everything.

For normal TV watching the sound is via Sony's built in speakers only. I don't watch TV except during lunch to catch the news or History channel. My wife is the TV fan and since our son is away at college we have not rented a movie in more than a year.

albertporter

Owner
The Telefunkens worked perfectly in three of the four amps. The fourth amp hummed and made noises so I pulled the 6463's in that "pair" of amps driving the high frequencies.

So, VTL 750 amps, which are driving the bass (the later design pair), have new Telefunken 6463 drivers and the sound is amazingly better. I'm going to sort through the remaining 6463 tubes and do extra screening with my tube tester to see if there could be a bad tube.

I just got four new Purist Anniversary ($2700.00) power cords and breaking them in. I have to put additional testing on hold until the system settles in again.

albertporter

Owner
Solid state might be tighter but trade off is dynamics and punch. I don't think a solid state amp exists that sounds as powerful as a VTL 750.

We have not listened together so it's not possible for me to guarantee you will like the same thing I do. The VTL is dark by comparison to most solid state and that's better for me.

I can gain brightness or scrape off bass with tubes swaps and changing isolation devices and all will be well. Getting rid of brightness while trying to retain dynamic contrast AND without losing detail is difficult, at least in my experience.

So, I prefer starting a bit on the dark-punchy-dynamic side and move toward bright and open as needed.

albertporter

Owner
Justin, the 450 is a wonderful amp, much the same personality of the 750. The Dynaudio loves power and big dynamics, and the 750 excels in those strengths.

If you bought a 450 and tubed it up correctly you would probably never ask for more. If you compared the two you would want the 750, it is a better amp.

You are the one who must decide if it's worth the extra money.

albertporter

Owner
Ken, Albert is what everyone calls me, except my wife when she's angry with me :^).

I began the Ampex 351 restoration project about 7 months ago.

What I wanted appeared to be impossible, until I met this guy who is an absolute expert restorer. Turns out he's a multi platinum hit-record producer for many popular artists, including Stevie Nicks.

I currently have a Technics 1520 (balanced out) which will record and play half track, or play half and quarter track at either 7.5 or 15 IPS at the flick of a switch. It's a great machine mechanically with it's closed loop capstan, but circuitry wise, it's 70's- 80's transistor japan design.

I wanted an Ampex fully restored with twin matched (interchangeable) head blocks so I could record and play half track and play half and quarter track by simply hitting a switch (like my Technics can do).

At first I was told it was impossible and my guy almost gave up until he found NOS (in the original wax paper wrapper :^) PR15 Ampex quarter track heads from the motion picture business.

He wound up milling twin head blocks on a CNC machine and supposedly I can swap blocks, plug and play (or record).

This was an extremely difficult job, he says it's the first (and only) time it has ever been done. He also said had he known how much trouble it was going to be he would not have accepted the job.

Anyway, It is completely finished and has passed all his tech tests and he says it sounds absolutely stunning. According to him, it's the best sounding quarter track machine he has ever heard. Of course the half track set up is equal to any he restores for recording studios.

It is as new with original Ampex parts, NOS tubes just like an original. He delayed shipment on three occasions due to last minute problems.

This weeks delay was low level hum, previously he had issues with EQ not balancing between speeds and play heads. The problem is the heads are high impedance and use a tunneling ground system so extreme care is required to preserve bandwidth.

Supposedly all is well now and I hope it will make it out this week so I can hear it strut it's stuff.

albertporter

Owner
Justin, there's a section here at Audiogon to post for local audio clubs. I met several of the guys in my group from posting at Audiogon.

On the topic of my system. I replaced the 6350 Sylvania (original) VTL tubes with RCA black plates and got an improvement.

Last week I swapped the RCA for Telefunken 6463 (Computer tube from 60's) and got an even bigger improvement. On the source front, my Ampex 351 is promised to ship this coming Tuesday. Third promise, is the charm I hope (for ship date).

albertporter

Owner
I agree, you can't get respect unless you show respect.

Nothing wrong with courteous guidance, especially if it's reflective. Guidance that stimulate individual testing and comparing results.

I was at another audiophiles home yesterday, along with about a dozen other members of the Dallas Audio Club (some of these guys are part of my private group).

It's amazing how much information is exchanged among enthusiasts, facing each other and listening together.

albertporter

Owner
It's also possible your dealer chose the lines he carries because he prefers the sound of that product over those you (or I) prefer.

My advice to any consumer is seek as many valid opinions as possible and audition as many as you can afford.

I admit this is difficult to do on your own, and one of the main reasons for my audio group which meets every Tuesday. By sharing, our group has an enormous array of speakers, electronics and accessories to play with.

The other shortcut I use is calling and trading information with friends and audiophiles that have the same values in music and preferences of sonic signatures in equipment. The best way is listening together over time and walking around together at audio shows (comparing likes and dislikes in each room) and talking on the phone.

The results are varied, some people are never happy, swapping equipment every week. Some are happy with everything (or mediocrity), and some are in between. This does not make these people right or wrong, just not the best place to get advice if that's not your path.

Anyway, once you find critical listening preferences on which the two of you agree and disagree, you can begin to build a mental library of who to put the most stock in.

It's not possible to listen to everything out there and without my network I could never hope to keep up with changes in the industry.

I currently have about 30 people who I watch and listen with to determine what I need to learn next. Some are reviewers, some manufacturers, some are friends and some are just crazy audiophiles like ourselves :^).

So, getting input from YOUR select group is more valuable than a review or a dealer. Opinions closely targeted to your taste, greatly increases the probability of a correct match for your own system.

I like to remind the buyer that after everyone has gone home and the thrill of new equipment is gone, you are the one left listening to your choices. Best if the choice makes YOU happy.

albertporter

Owner
Wouldn't you agree that the majority of high end gear is good?

In a word, YES.

In fact, most mid level audio gear is good, we have more choices today than ever in the history of audio. Lots of competition and lots of good choices. The only thing that bothers me are people who criticize based on specifications, price (or whatever their pet peeve is) rather than listening and deciding for themselves.

I have complimented many systems at Audiogon, not only to encourage people to share but because there are many paths to great sound. When I was trying to decide on what speakers should go in my system I had a long list. Chances are I could have made any of them work (with time) and possibly been just as happy as I am now.

Working with what you have and extracting EVERY last bit from it is what separates a magic system from mediocre.

It's like racing, many have the same engine but all perform differently due to tuning and the driver :^).

albertporter

Owner
I have not found that copy, where did you get yours? Assume too, your talking about an LP, I don't buy CD's.

Not surprised two guys trying to make a living are not happy with each others products. It's a shame that they cannot promote their own agenda without criticizing the other.

I have actually referred photography work to my competitors when what was ask of me was not my specialty or beyond my scope. It's a shame it cannot work in high end audio.

albertporter

Owner
I don't doubt you Nrostov, source is everything. Losses or gains at the front of the system are what determines the quality of reproduction for the whole system.

This guy does such a good job even though I have to put up with the shaking of the head at my Temptations.

I don't understand that, the Temptations are world class, perhaps he's just unhappy he did not sell them to you.

albertporter

Owner
Nrostov, I am truly happy for you. The Temptation is a world class speaker, no reason to ever speaker shop again.

I hope you find the perfect combination of equipment to match up with it for your own version of magic.

albertporter

Owner
Clarkeds, honestly I don't know. I requested two pair of the Cary Anniversary mono blocks for review with the intention of keeping them if they worked the magic I thought they were capable of.

When that failed to pan out, I acquired as many amps as possible from friends and manufactures, even buying a few here at Audiogon for testing.

Nothing turned out as expected, I'm embarrassed to say. I had my mind made up that several other brands were going to be great with the Dali's and in the end I wound up with four giant VTL's. This is absolutely NOT what I intended, just what was truthfully the best sound, so I had no other choice.

Had I gone for Cary SET's and never auditioned all this other stuff I might be just as happy today. Certainly different that what I have now, but happiness with one's music system can be obtained in many ways. It's more about working smart and hard and taking advantage of every little gain possible. Often these gains are free or cost very little and yet people reverse direction and give up before realizing they were headed the right direction in the first place.

I'll bet if you like your ARC's you will like them on the Dali's. I'm a tube guy so probably not the best choice for me, but that's what makes this hobby great.

albertporter

Owner
Justin, I've gone into debt to obtain a piece of audio gear, and on more than one occasion.

Lets say an amp comes up for sale here at Audiogon and it's a good deal. Estimating what I can sell my existing gear for, I borrow to make the move. The good news is that kind of debt can be cleared in 60-90 days, assuming the newly acquired gear was the correct choice and disposing of the looser gear goes as projected :^).

Audio has the ability to ignite passion in those of us that love it, and sometimes passion gets in the way of our better judgement.

Better that than not having passion for anything, how boring that would be!

albertporter

Owner
Clarkeds, absolutely match your amps, regardless of what you choose to power your Dali's.

Since you already own ARC 100.2, and assuming you like their voice, another pair might be the right choice.

If you are unhappy once you get the Dali's up and running, I have lots of advice on how to move them any way you want :^).

The Dali Megaline is an amazing speaker, but very sensitive to every piece in the electronic chain. Like most audiophile speakers, they are ruthless in revealing everything that's upstream, from source through power amps.

I find the balance of the Dali Megaline (with original transistor crossover) to be a bit lean, lacking in textures, and too soft in dynamics and warmth. I heard them at the high end audio show in Denver, driven by four big solid state amps and I had to immediately leave the room.

I wish I had an easy answer, you have a high end speaker and it requires proper care and feeding to make magic.

At one time I considered the Cary SET mono blocks, low power and seductive. I never got to hear them on my Megalines and always wondered how that would have turned out.

albertporter

Owner
Hello Rugyboogle. I honestly don't know a thing about the arm you linked me to.

I'm not surprised you heard great analog at Mikes home, his linear tracking Rockport is one of the finest tables ever built.

My current favorite linear track arm that's both available and sold separately (neither true for my Walker or Mike's Rockport) would be the Kuzma Airline.

The Kuzma is a VERY good arm, perhaps as good as the one on Mike's or my table. I have heard it a number of times and hope one day to try it in my own system against the Walker.

http://www.kuzma.si/news.php

albertporter

Owner
I should have said: Typically sells for less than half that USED. The 750 is a discontinued model, replaced by the new auto bias Siegfried Reference.

albertporter

Owner
20K per pair new, typically sell for less than half that.

A friend just bought a very nice pair for less than 9K. Not cheap but not nearly as expensive as some of the stuff out there.

albertporter

Owner
I would put them behind the Dynaudio's, just as I put mine behind the Dali's.

Your speakers should help hide them in your room. I have two pair of these large amps, so no way are they not going to show. If you score a pair of 750's in black and put them behind and to the outside of your Dynaudio's I think it would look good.

albertporter

Owner
Nate,

That was Pappadeaux Cajun on Lombardi. Great steaks, seafood and Cajun fare.

As for giving the servants the night off, your correct. When I go out to eat I get the night off and that keeps me from having to work around the house.

albertporter

Owner
Nrostov, absolutely!

I heard the Dynaudio Temptations driven by ARC Ref 600's, and to this day that was absolutely the best I have ever heard that speaker.

I've heard the Temptation multiple times in the USA, including CES and the NYC Stereophile shows with giant transistor gear pushing them. Again, several more times in Europe while covering high end shows there for Audiogon. None of these auditions came remotely close to what I experienced with the big ARC amps pushing them.

I've compared the Tube Research GT 400, VTL 750 and ARC Ref 600's. All are EXCELLENT, each has their own unique personality, all are EXTREMELY powerful (even beyond what the numbers state).

I currently run the VTL 750 because it's the least expensive and (dare I say this?) the most reliable of the group.

Another reviewer at Absolute Sound choose VTL 750 for his reference system. He called me today asking if he should buy a second pair while casually remarking he will NEVER shop for amps again.

Pretty damn strong recommendation, perhaps stronger that the words printed for the public.

albertporter

Owner
Here is a link to specifications of the VTL 750

http://www.vtl.com/pages/mb750specifications.html

albertporter

Owner
I've noticed those for sale here too, they look like my silver pair and the seller says they are the Infinicap version, meaning they have the cap upgrade.

You can determine on any VTL 750 if it has the infinicap mod by taking off the bottom cover and looking into the power supply. Infinicaps are yellow and white ones are the old design.

If the 750's are in a place where turning them over to look is not possible (they are heavy), you can sometimes use a small mirror and flashlight and see through the vent holes in the sheet metal on the bottom that's facing the floor.

Before buying I would ask if they have the power supply (balance) resistor upgrade (gray resistors with gold bands) and diodes. I have a spare kit of parts and instructions including photo's from VTL. The parts count is 32 resistors, 24 diodes and 2 other diodes in a separate package.

The reason I mention this, I got a quote of between $600.00 and $1000.00 to upgrade an older model, from an independent shop.

Amps that don't have the resistor balance mod are at risk of blowing one of the huge electrolytic caps. I got this word on the mod from Bea at VTL, so I believe it to be significant for reliability and safety of the amp.

albertporter

Owner
Nrostov.

Yea, I have to give Nate some BS since he visited and I got to know him.

Nate was here with Vetterone, Chello and Lugnut (Pat Malone) who died of cancer. It really was a great time as Pat was feeling OK back then. We all laughed, listened to music and shopped for LP's and the best restaurants for several days.

I tease all the people in my life, my wife is really tired of it after 34 years :^).

My dad always teased with my sister and I and I remember it fondly, although at the time it seemed silly.

As my dad always said, "You have to laugh to keep from crying."

albertporter

Owner
Nrostov, lucky for you, the Dali Megalines took over 800 hours before they showed their true potential and I'll bet the Dynaudio Temptation requires at least that much time.

Nate (Nrchy) when you visited and bought our dinner at Celebration I thought that was an indication that you would "take us under your wing."

Then, when you left your wallet on the sofa with so little cash, (which we blew through the next day), I assumed you wanted us to use the Platinum Visa.

I promise to keep charges under 3K a month, my wife I cannot make promises for.

Speaking of gifts, you really must visit and hear all then great new LP's I recently charged to your account.

albertporter

Owner
Agreed Nrostov. Have fun with your new state of the art speaks.

By the way, did you buy used or new? If new, there is no way they are broken in yet, Dyne's and Dali's both require a lot of hours to get to 100%.

albertporter

Owner
Jafox,
Edison failed many times with the light bulb thing. I think he had just completed the horsehair experiments (which stunk mightily when it burned out) as I turned teenager.

He discovered Tungsten in time to build halogen bulbs to light my turntable about the time I graduated from high school in 1879. Not many at Audiogon realize I'm 127 years old, wish you had not told them.

Slipknot, Lloyd is indeed coming for a listen as mentioned in my 5-05-06 post to Mary. If she visits Lloyd may not be able to keep his mind on analog. Mary is smart and pretty.

albertporter

Owner
The advantage of the Dynaudio Temptation over the Dali Megaline is simplicity. No doubt the Dynaudio is absolutely a world class speaker too.

The Dyne requires one stereo or twin mono amps. The Dali requires twice that amount as it is a true bi amp design all the way through it's outboard electronic crossover.

As mentioned in this thread several times, if I had gone with Maggies, Sound Lab, or Kharma I would have probably wound up with four mono blocks anyway.

The advantage of my type of bi-amping is the frequencies are divided before reaching the amplifiers. Each amplifier is fed only the frequencies required for that portion of the music.

This increases the power amps ability to respond quickly and retain a huge reserve for dynamics (having half the normal bandwidth imposed on its original design).

Having chosen four VTL 750's makes that almost seem absurd since I have so much power, but the proof is in the music. My efforts have paid off as I now have the most dynamic, pure, spacious and low distortion sound since I began this musical quest as a teenager.

albertporter

Owner
Nrostov, regarding
The Temptations gave me goosebumps. They are so emotionally involving. I really am speechless.

Yep, I'm not surprised. When Louis owned his and powered them with ARC Ref 600's all we could do is sit, grin and listen when we cranked up the music.

I think you would love the Dali Megalines too, same Danish "quality" of being able to deliver the emotion, dynamics and fun of music.

I am very happy for you. These should be the last speakers you ever have to buy.

albertporter

Owner
Hello Mary.

Our group is doing well, I wish you could have been with us last week when Andrew Litton was here. He's leaving the Dallas Symphony and moving to New York.

He will be sincerely missed by his friends, and the art community. Under his direction, funding for the DSO has increased ten fold ! Not only is Andrew a good friend and listening partner, his wife is a joy to be around and I've watched his kids grow up during their time here, it's really grieves me they are all leaving.

Having listening with him over the years, I continue to be amazed at his sense of humor and love of music. The last thing we listened to was Goldfrapp (British dance/rock) and Lonnie Johnson (Blues). It's wonderful that this superb classical conductor and talented piano artist accepts the wide variety of music our group enjoys.

The only positive note, he's offered to fly me to New York to help him get his system in shape for the new listening room. A few days ago I drove over to his home and took the turntable, arm and cartridge apart and packed it. Hopefully the movers wont damage it now.

As for the visit, your welcome any Tuesday, and May 23rd (Tuesday) Lloyd Walker (of Walker Turntable fame) will be here listening with us. He's bringing some new stuff including a product that is not out yet. I hope it's ready so I can hear it.

The Dali Megalines continue to improve as more hours of music pass through them. I was at Louis's home last night and his Kharma 1De's are still improving too. Seems these Euro speakers continue to get better even beyond the 1K hour mark.

Let me know the day you take your boss to the airport, if I'm not stuck in a photo shoot you and your husband can come by earlier instead of driving around.

Which turntable are you asking about? I am to photograph the new Grand Prix and been discussing the Loricraft with Martina at Gerrard DE. I spoke to her a long time at CES, great lady and was positive to the possibility of my reviewing the Loricraft.

If your asking about the Rockport, it is sold.

albertporter

Owner
System edited: Added description of my new Dali Ikon (dialogue) speaker and an image.

albertporter

Owner
Hey, I like that rock of solid granite idea. Richard Vandersteen did similar in his "Great" room and I'm jealous.

I actually considered pouring a concrete column that rose up through my pier and beam foundation, providing a cheaper version of your Granite idea. Mine was to be for the turntable as well.

When rebuilding my space, my contractor bitched and moaned every time I brought up the subject. Sealing between the solid pier and flexible floor, matching the slate, etc, etc.

Anyway, he won and I lost. I hope you get to pull it off in your space.

albertporter

Owner
Gregadd:

Your current system a duece of 750's and the dalis.Hardly practical.

I agree it's not practical, but what is required to make the Dali's operate. They are bi amp only. Of course I was planning bi amp on the Maggie 20's had I gone that speaker route and the guy in my group with Kharma Exquisite 1De is now bi amping with two pair of Lamm's (at $29,900.00 per pair).

On of my reviewer buds has three sets of amps on his Maggies, One pair for bass, one pair for the two ribbons and one pair to drive a line array of woofers (similar to the Dali design) to add "cone" bass.

Practical is a word that's hard to quantify.

albertporter

Owner
Gregadd I agree, provided we're talking about previous Sound Lab designs.

The bass impedance of old A-1's rose to about 56 ohms at lowest frequencies, far too high an impedance for any transistor amp and uncomfortable for most transformer coupled tube amps. The Atma-Sphere MA2 works splendidly at that impedance, producing prodigious bass in a situation that chokes many other designs.

However, quite a few Sound Lab were designed to be "friendly" for transistors and had a nasty impedance dip in the midrange (some of which was resolved by ANOTHER factory mod about three years ago).

This impedance dip caused problems for Atma-Sphere and some other amps but not for Wolcotts or VTL's. Things like this (and ALL the other SL mods) make the situation where lots of people arrive at different experiences (NOT just opinions) about the performance of various amps with this speaker.

Atma-Sphere is more heat gain and more money but less power than VTL. I bought my VTL 750's used for $7500.00 (for 750 watts). The MA2 Atma-Sphere is $24000.00 new, assume a good deal would be $9K plus (for 200 watts)

Ralph is a good friend and I love his products but there are clear advantages to less heat and less money for more power, especially for those moving into the more recent Sound Lab designs.

I should add here, the new replacement VTL is $45K retail for the pair, making it a much less appealing deal than the VTL 750 (20K retail).

I guess VTL figured out they were selling too cheap.

albertporter

Owner
Audiospirit, regarding:
I think the general consensus is that the Sound Labs do warrant big tube amplifiers. Correct?

More power is better, within reason. Sound Labs are not the same speakers they were many years ago. Impedances have changed as have the construction materials. I think a big transformer coupled 6550/KT88 tube amp is best, even more so than transformer coupled SET's or EL34 based designs.

Best tubes for VTL 750's are SED Wing C 6550 for outputs, RCA black plate 6350's and Telefunken 12AT7's.

Zaiksman (who I respect) says KT88's are better in VTL's so that's another option to SED 6550. These tubes are not hard to find. The Telefunken might be a bit more than the other two but only one Tele is required per mono block.

albertporter

Owner
Good luck Audiospirit, Sound Labs are wonderful. I do have a suggestion for powering them, having tried at least two dozen amps with Sound Labs over the years.

First choice, VTL 750 with all the right tubes.

albertporter

Owner
Audiospirit, regarding your two questions:

Would bi-amping the MG 20.1s with an electronic crossover have achieved the results you were looking for?

That's certainly the route I was considering. The other option was an all out assault passive outboard crossover, bi-wired to EACH individual driver by BWS Consulting. My friend at Absolute Sound went this passive route and thinks it's wonderful. (I think it cost $4,500.00).

Another friend has an electronic crossover on his Maggies but limited it to a two way, with crossover between the two ribbons remaining passive, but upgraded.

The crossover I had designed and built for my Dali's is a two way (as are the speakers) and cost $3200.00. It is an all tube design with passive high frequencies and level plus EQ controls for the bass. This is not a true EQ as it does not add or subtract like an equalizer, but rather hinges the integration point between the ribbon and woofers, causing the levels to go up and down.

A bit of fiddling with both controls allows for perfect dynamic peaks and smooth bass and no overhang into the ribbon frequencies.

Sound Lab owners (past or present) speak of their time with Sound Lab speakers like a romantic might speak of that "great lost love." Have the Dali's let you "forget" about the Sound Labs?

Yes and no. I will never forget the Sound Labs, I loved them too much. I still have a spot in my heart for my friends Dynaudio Temptations that he sold, and I never even owned a pair :^).

There are things the Sound Lab does that NO other speaker can equal. There are things my Dali does that I have never heard any other speaker equal. I'm not trying to avoid your question, it's just not possible to have a perfect speaker and whatever decision you make there are compromises. Some people are not experienced or critical enough to notice this, so for them they have the PERFECT speaker. Bless them is all I have to say, I have never found the perfect speaker.

The real question is, would I change speakers? Right now, no. The Dali does enough things perfect and enough things very well that I just sit and listen with a smile on my face. The Sound Labs did the same thing but for different reasons.

I don't think any speaker design can equal the coherency and time alignment of a single driver rig and the only single driver that is truly full range is the Sound Lab. The Quads are marvelous and the single driver cone speakers are wonderful but neither will produce the deep bass, high frequency extension and dynamics of a Sound Lab.

That being said, a Sound Lab cannot touch the Dali in the realm of dynamics, bass power, ultra high frequency resolution, "walk around" sound stage and total SPL-equal to live-with NO distortion at all.

Probably the 90 DB efficiency of the Dali helps in this manner. Sound Labs have an upper limit for both SPL and dynamics and beyond a certain power put in, the diaphragm compresses and will go no further. I know people who tried to overcome this by adding more and more power and succeeded in burning up the Sound Lab back plates and transformers.

To put this in perspective, the Megaline will do peaks approximately 26 DB greater than the upper limit of the Sound Lab with no compression or distortion. That is in fact, one of it's main strengths. It is not as fun to listen to at ultra low levels it's ribbon is so high resolution you HAVE to pay attention to everything and it's not as phase coherent as the big Sound Labs, provided the Sound Labs are not pushed into compression.

Different designs, different sounds, different strengths and love them for different reasons.

Similar to having equal passion for two completely different kinds of music.

albertporter

Owner
Audiospirit. Good questions and difficult ones to answer briefly.

I owned Sound Labs for sixteen years and never seriously considered replacing them. I had rebuilt the crossover several times and had them balanced perfectly with my room. Without getting into specifics, I finally met my match with Sound Lab's reliability issues, forcing me to move on.

The speakers on my short list were the Wilson Maxx 2's, Dynaudio Evidence Master, Martin Coltrane, Avalon Eidolon Diamond, Dali Megaline, Kharma Exquisite and Magneplanar 20.1.

I've heard all these under various conditions, found faults with all and calculated which I might deal with to arrive at the level of satisfaction I had with Sound Labs.

I ruled out the Kharma Exquisite due to price and I had conflicts with the powers at Magneplanar while discussing my purchase, so it was ruled out as well.

I had good experience with the other vendors. Wilson was marvelous as was Dan at Martin Coltrane and the folks at Dynaudio will forever have my respect because they worked so hard to make me an owner of their wonderful speakers.

The other issue I had with Magneplanar applies to the Dali Megaline as well, the crossover. I originally thought the Dali would be fine but it turns out it and the Maggie both need help and both are similarly expensive to upgrade (the blessing and curse of high resolution ribbons :^).

Magneplanar was so uncooperative that I feared modifications to a new 20.1 would put me in position to not receive service (even if I were willing to pay).

Had the choice been for the 20.1 and I had owned them all this time, replaced the crossover and tuned where I wanted them, I might possibly be just as happy as I am now.

This is true for the Dynaudio and certainly for the Kharma as one of the guys in my audio group owns the Exquisite 1De, having "upgraded" from the Dynaudio Temptation.

The Avalon Eidolon Diamond was marginally too small for my space and the new Avalon ISIS had not yet been released. Had the ISIS been introduced a year earlier it's possible I would have bought them. I awarded the ISIS product of the year (as a reviewer for Positive Feedback). That award appears on Avalon's web site in the ISIS introduction section, so it appears they are pleased.

I guess the short answer is, if you like the Maggie 20.1 as is, no mods required, it's priced well below the other speakers on my list.

For myself, like George Cardas and one of my reviewer friends at Absolute Sound, the Maggie must be modified to be where we want it. If you can make a go of it stock, no question it's the best value option.

albertporter

Owner
Nrostov, no the stripper joke is just my friend Gunbei having a good time.

He and Jax2 (Marco) are famous for bringing a little joy to the otherwise somber discussions at Audiogon.

albertporter

Owner
OK then, how about I say I don't like Maggies at all. Does that help you?

albertporter

Owner
Eldartford, you have Maggies?

One of my favorite speakers of all time. I'm surprised you believe what Bongiorno writes after listening to yours.

albertporter

Owner
Eldartford,

The Dali appears to have all drivers enclosed but this is not the case. The ribbon operates from about 800 HZ to 22K and is outside the box with wood trim designed to make it look like all one piece.

You can walk around the back of the speaker and see through it. Sound coming from the rear is about equal to what my Sound Labs did except for deep bass which is much less directional anyway.

Follow this link, go to third image down for rear view:
http://www.dali.dk/int/page191.aspx?sub=213&prod=1

Or I can email you a close up of the workings of the driver. I submitted that view to Positive Feedback with my Dali Megaline review but when they ran the review I guess there was not space for that "tech" shot.

albertporter

Owner
Justin,

I have all the music you listed except the Al Dimeola. When are we listening together?

albertporter

Owner
Different animals.

The Dynaudio is rich and heavy in the mid bass (at least with the ARC REF 600) and great highs with that signature sound of the Dynaudio soft dome tweeter (which I like).

I think the Dali goes deeper in the bass and will play louder, if that's of any concern. I can't use all the Dali's are capable of producing, even in my 630 square food space.

The Dali is more transparent, much more like a Sound-Lab or a big Maggie with aftermarket custom crossover. Ribbons and E-Stats have a way of making music that I prefer.

The Dynaudio is easier to set up, only one set of mono blocks or one stereo amp where the Dali Megalines must be bi-amped and the Dali is dipole, so you need to be aware of surfaces behind the speaker as well as the front.

albertporter

Owner
Justin, Sorry to take so long to reply, I bought a new computer and have been setting it up and fixing files from the transfer from the old machine.

The Dynaudio Temptation is one of my all time favorite speakers, I've heard them in many systems and with many amps. The best ever (not even close) was with a pair of Audio Research Ref 600 MK3 mono blocks. Probably the VTL 750 or Wotan would give similar results.

I have not made a direct comparison between your Confidence C4 and the Temptation, but I'll bet both speakers love power and the more overboard you go, the more dynamic and low distortion they will sound.

albertporter

Owner
Not quite that much Nrostov.

Four stands with the upgraded APEX Composite footers is 7K, meaning $1750 apiece. Many audiophiles have stereo amps, in which case only one stand would be required.

It is a great deal of money but the Grand Prix Audio stand was absolutely equal to making a major component upgrade. It stunned my group so much when we started the system back up, they were still talking about it three weeks afterward.

albertporter

Owner
System edited: Images added of Grand Prix Monaco amplifier stands and APEX composite footers that now support the VTL 750 amps. This stand represented an upgrade equal to a component change. Huge increase in dynamics and low level information detail/

albertporter

Owner
Thank you Bart. The tube crossover I had custom built made a great improvement, wish you could hear it.

albertporter

Owner
Zaikes, I am doing product photography for Grand Prix. They have a new turntable and I will be photographing it as well as other products. If I like the stands I will burn up my photo "credit" and have big out of pocket expense as well.

If they are not as claimed, I can return them and pay nothing. That's an irresistible offer for an audiophile, i get to hear the cool stands and be one of the first to play with the new turntable. :^).

albertporter

Owner
Got notice today that my 4 Grand Prix Audio Amplifier stands ($4,800.00) are on the way.

http://www.grandprixaudio.com/prod_monaco_amp.htm

I also ordered the APEX isolation feet ($2,200.00) and will try both the supplied spikes and the APEX with the VTL 750's.

http://www.grandprixaudio.com/prod_apex.htm

From friends in the business this is supposed to be the best thing out there. I have a lot of experimenting to do with all this and the VTL back from repair in the same week.

albertporter

Owner
I received the final invoice ($1750.00) for full restoration of my Ampex 351.

I hope AD ships it this week. Cool part is it will have two head blocks, one is quarter track play and half track play (no record). Other head block is standard (original) half track record and play.

A switch on the custom CNC machined head block will allow me to go from half to quarter track so I can play master dubs and prerecorded tapes without swapping head blocks. Although the Ampex is limited to 7.5 and 15 IPS, that's OK because I never bought any 3.75 speed during the time I owned the Technics.

I will probably post the Technics 1520 for sale after I've had a chance to dupe some rare tapes for friends. I will report on the Ampex's performance after a week or two shake out with it.

albertporter

Owner
Racing cars, I'm surprised your engineering / driving time is a low as 1:1 - I have a bunch of friends who like to build cars and it is more like 200:1 engineering / driving, so you must have been a very good engineer!

I think more likely that cars today have to be MUCH faster and more sophisticated that when I was young to be winners. I put in as many hours but basically big block Chevy engines with multiple carbs, pushing heavy sport coupe passenger car bodies.

Still, it was nice taking teen girls for a ride and watching their faces.

And before anyone jumps me about "teen girls," remember I was a kid then too :^).

albertporter

Owner
Sorry to hear your tale of woe, does this leave you with a problem bi-amping at the moment, or can you bypass part of the curcuit?

It definitely leaves me with a problem. I have no high frequencies on the left channel, 1K and above.

The Dali is a true bi amp design, the amps drive the high and low drivers directly after passing though the electronic crossover at the front of the system.

Regardless if I use the original crossover or the new tube version, I am one amplifier short. Four channels of power required and I have one dead :^(.

Your question on the S-400 is one I cannot answer. I have zero experience with that product, only the 450.

When you say:
But I think I remember you were not so keen? Care to expand on that?

I don't know if I understand your question.

If your asking "have I've lost faith in VTL due to this problem"? The answer is NO.

All high end tube gear requires service. Sometimes we are lucky and go for many years without turning a screw. Other people buy brand new top line equipment and have a problem out of the box.

I would say I am about average, no more or less maintenance than most who have a 100 + tubes in their system. In fact, surprising I have so little down time when you consider the complexity of what I've assembled.

I raced cars in my youth, and for a brief time I held the quarter mile track record in my class at a local raceway.

This was a car I drove on the street. Did I ever have problems with it :^). Your kidding, right? I spent as much time working on it as I did driving it. Still, I would not trade those memories for anything.

By comparison, the most complicated stereo systems are easy, and with stereo, there are no exploding bits coming through the floorboard threatening your vital body parts :^).

albertporter

Owner
The guy that has my amp now is lead tech of an audio shop that has been in business since 1947. They are the largest in the city and were my main competitor when I had my store in Ft. Worth.

The tech's name is Les. Les has VTL repair data from the work he did on Louis's amp two years ago. When working on Louis's amp, Les spoke with tech support at VTL about the circuit and repair and they offered him the right of authorized warranty for VTL. That tells me the factory liked him and believes in his ability.

The previous repair was done by a gentleman who is literally famous in the audio business. I assumed he would be perfect for the job but he drew bad luck each of the two or three times he worked on it.

I have four VTL 750's and only this one has ever given a moments trouble so maybe Les will put it like the rest. Then I can go back to making the system better.

I have all kinds of things waiting to try, including cables, amps stands that ship to me this coming week, input tubes and a new type of HDL link from Lloyd Walker.

albertporter

Owner
Eldartford, I think the same part in the power supply board that failed last time. I had it repaired by a different tech that should have been qualified, but maybe he was not.

It will be interesting to see if the new guy can solve the problem. At least he has a good track record. A guy in my group that also had a VTL 750 problem used him to repair his amps and they ran successfully for two years (before he sold them).

With the voltages present in some tube gear such as the VTL and Aesthetix, one error in soldering or mismatching and it's destined to fail later.

I don't know the voltages in the VTL, but there are places in the Aesthetix preamp that are 405 and 600 volts.

albertporter

Owner
Dmurfet,

One of my VTL 750's recently failed. After calculating the expense and risk of shipping 215 pounds to the factory in California, I opted for local service.

If factory repair was driving distance, as in your case, I would have absolutely gone that way. My real fear was my amp would survive shipping to the factory, be repaired and then shipping damaged upon return.

In fact, the cost of round trip shipping and insurance exceeds the local tech's quote to put it right.

As for your options, are you asking if the VTL 450 is a good choice for your Sophias? I can't imagine why not but you should get input by posting in the general forums.

albertporter

Owner
Albert,

You are the second person who has told me that they reduce the sound quality. In what way do they reduce sound quality?

The biggest thing is compression. Compression of bandwidth and small detail but especially dynamic range, which seems impossible to regain once lost.

Maybe my results are due to (exclusively) analog source and all tube gear.

Perhaps digital source, digital amps and big transistor pieces don't suffer the same fate. Or perhaps they are improved in some way that is perceived as better than the alternative.

That's why there are differing opinions posted. Results could be different in each system and for each person.

albertporter

Owner
Henry,

Zaikes is playing.

Such posts are done to liven up Audiogon threads, I'm guilty too. They are often accompanied by a "smiley face" (as Zaikes did) indicating it's not a serious remark.

I once hated those silly faces but now resort to using them myself, fairly often too. Unable to see the person or hear their voice there is no other way to know if it's a jab or a joke.

albertporter

Owner
Justin, it's been a while since I last tested line conditioners. They are so uniformly consistent in reducing the quality of my system I opted to go directly into the wall with multiple dedicated lines.

The Accuphase regenerator PS-500V ($6700.00) actually did some good on my digital. The guy helping me demo suggested we try with the Aesthetix Callisto and I warned that it was high power draw.

After waving me away, assuring me it would be fine, we hooked it up and at turn on the Accuphase smoked and failed. I have not revisited power conditioning much since then.

albertporter

Owner
Maybe someday I'll enter that wrong digit when calling for Lloyd Walker and get you instead.

When you answer the phone, what do you say? I need to know so I don't start sending money to you. Lloyd manages to sell me almost everything he makes. The Walker Proscenium turntable, HDL links, Mikro Omega cords, Walker motor controller, Valid Points and so on.

Don't feel sorry for him, I rib him but he gets my cash :^).

albertporter

Owner
Thanks for pushing me beyond "666."

On a related topic, Lloyd Walker calls me all the time and his phone number is 610-666-6087.

So, when I see him on my caller ID, I always answer the phone: "This is the devil speaking, who in hell you want?" (or other similar smart ass remark).

He's accustomed to this by now and laughs.

Ray Brown!

I have his recordings on both Concord and Fantasy labels. What a player! He really stands out on "Soular Energy," (Concord LP) , a long time favorite of mine.

As for Porter Ports, yes. I have Ivory and White and dark brown arriving from cryo.

The dark brown for an Audiogon member wants them to "disappear" in a paneled room. My Ivory colored ones disappear in my room so I can hardly blame him.

albertporter

Owner
With what you've printed in the forums about the titles and artists you love, I could keep you happy for days spinning music.

I have a much more enjoyable listening session when the visitor is a music lover as well as appreciating the gear that makes it possible. Just keep it in mind should travel bring you through the DFW hub.

albertporter

Owner
one can never own too much Art Blakey. I have an original deep groove of "Moanin'
My new mono copy has not arrived, perhaps because today was Presidents day? I didn't see the mail man or FedEx.

Anyway I agree with you. You can't have too much Art Blakey. I have the Mosaic 10 LP set (signed edition #2756 of 7500 pressed) and it will be interesting to see if it or this new release delivers better sound.

So, the big question is Zaikes, when are you coming around to listen with me? I promise to play all your favorites. You get to pull the albums and I spin them.

albertporter

Owner
Yep, that's a great cable. Glad it worked so well for you. No doubt it will improve with break in.

albertporter

Owner
I listened to brief excerpts of Amos Lee at All Music Guide before ordering.

Sounded promising, along with a positive mini review at Classic. Of course there's no way to know how the songs knit together from samples or how believable the guy is on a whole side, not to mention recording quality.

Have you heard The Arctic Monkeys? Crazy young rockers that seem to have Europe in their grip.

I am waiting on the repair of one of my VTL 750's. Once that's back in the system I'll find out if Amos Lee and Arctic Monkeys are keepers.

Arctic Monkeys

albertporter

Owner
There are some really great new releases at Classic Records, I ordered these this evening. I can hardly wait to give them a spin.

Artist: Amos Lee, "Amos Lee"
Label: Blue Note Jazz 200 Gram LP reissues

Artist: Tina Brooks, " Back to the Tracks"
Label: Classic Records Blue Note MONO 200gm Quiex

Artist: Thad Jones, "Detroit/New York Junction"
Label: Classic Records Blue Note MONO 200gm Quiex SV-P

Artist: Thelonious Monk, "Thelonious Monk Quartet with John Coltrane At Carnegie"
Label: Various 200gm (New World, Xanadu, Virgin.)

Artist: Sonny Clark, "Sonny's Crib"
Label: Classic Records Blue Note MONO 200gm Quiex SV-P

Artist: Hank Mobley, "Hank Mobley"
Label: Classic Records Blue Note MONO 200gm Quiex

Artist: Art Blakey, "Art Blakey: Moanin"
Label: Classic Records Blue Note MONO 200gm Quiex SV-P

ARTIST: Hank Mobley, "Hank"
Label: Classic Records Blue Note MONO 200gm Quiex SV-P

albertporter

Owner
You're probably right, two giants battling over software supremacy where the issue is control and ownership rather than quality.

Speaking of formats, I just clicked off Acoustic Sounds web site after placing an order for eleven more LP's. I was in an especially patient mood, viewed all 1,300 titles :^).

Guess I'm on a binge after receiving three shipments from England this afternoon. Finally got the new Arctic Monkeys LP, Sigur Ros, "Ba Ba Ti Ki Di Do" and "Takk," and two more of Kate Bush's "Aerial," (all on LP).

One copy of "Aerial" will be put away sealed in case mine gets damaged or a friend needs a copy after it goes out of print. That happened with Rickie Lee Jones "Pop Pop" when a buddy could not find a pristine copy.

Same with Roger Waters "Amused To Death." It's long out of print and I have a sealed copy as a backup.

Even if I were not an analog guy, I would be buying Redbook CD's the same way. We may all be gray headed before these format wars are settled.

albertporter

Owner
I have not tried that product, perhaps it would help. Unfortunately the only way to resolve ground issues is by experimenting.

I had the same problem when I went to four VTL 750's, bi amping the Dali's.

Even though I floated the amp ground at the AC cords and then experimented with grounding (on and off) at the preamp and phono, there was still residual hum.

I finally solved the problem by putting all four amps on the same electrical phase. I have multiple dedicated runs and although it's suggested by electricians that "balancing" the power is preferable (drawing half on phase one and half on phase two), it turns out these amps don't like that, even if you bypass the ground.

In my system, phase one is 121.7 volts and phase two is 119.8 volts, and that's how I tell them apart. I hooked up all four amps to the same phase and the hum disappeared.

albertporter

Owner
Thank you Lobnik, if travel ever brings you this way, contact me. Your welcome to listen with us.

albertporter

Owner
Nrostov (Justin) I found your comments Interesting about surround sound. That would be a nice for movies, getting an improvement in content.

I admit though, I much prefer listening to music than watching moves, especially since our teen age son moved off to college and is no longer home to share weekend movies.

From what I read on the internet, there is a push by the movie industry for HD DVD rather than Blue Ray. HD DVD requires less start up money, so they like that. I think there are some anti copy issues too, and that influences the movie people far more than the playback quality for the consumer.

Probably wind up like the Sony Beta versus VHS war and the DVD a against SACD.

These guys that invent and control the formats just can't seem to get on the same page. I suspect licensing fees are good revenue for the winner so like our guys in Congress (on both sides), they will fight till the end for their needs, regardless of what's good for the little guy that forks over his hard earned cash.

albertporter

Owner
Gregadd, you certainly did not hijack my thread, your posts are always welcome. Besides, your comments were about audio and that's what were here for.

As for better digital format, I think we all agree it's possible but not a priority in these times of MP3's.

Your only confusing remark was the one about everything in digital sounding "too good."

I wish that was my problem. With every comparison in my system between CD or SACD and the turntable, the analog whips the daylights out of the digital.

This is not a comparison made only with my cheap Sony. As a reviewer I have had several players in my system in the last two years, some at 10K mark and some even more money. I was not convinced all the extra money justified the performance of these expensive digital machines. In fact, the 10K one (a one box unit) was voted inferior to my Sony by 5 of the 6 people in my listening panel.

Last week, another set of listening sessions were conducted at the home of a friend in my audio group. He has a system nearly identical to mine, including an Aesthetix Io, Callisto, Walker, Koetsu and all Purist cable, but runs Kharma Exquisite 1De in place of my Dali Megalines.

We tried the Audio Note 4.1X balanced plus one month old Audio Note 3.1X with some new super factory mods against his analog. Both DAC's were fed by a CEC TL1 transport. If I had 10K to spend, this was nice digital, but in the end, it seemed just as distant from his analog (subjectively) as my Sony.

When something is clearly better, as the Walker is, it's not gratifying to spend a lot of money and get just a "little closer."

All that being said, if I ever get to where there is nothing else to upgrade on my system, I may give the digital upgrade path one more try. I do like the Audio Note DAC's and it's reported that the new Cary 306 is excellent for not a crazy amount of money.

albertporter

Owner
Since were talking about digital and my Sony 9000es is five years old, what is the next "hot" player? Something that has good DVD picture with movies and plays Redbook and (if possible) SACD.

Preferably not more than about 1K or so, unless there's something really special for not a lot more. I've been looking around the internet and the fight between Blue Ray and HD DVD is heating up with giants on both sides of the debate.

Wonder if one of these smaller laser based machines will do any better with CD? Supposedly both will provide true HD resolution from rented movies and there are machines already out for only $500.00.

At least for movies this looks promising, then again I have not seen them.

albertporter

Owner
My friend Russ is the source of the "mirror analogy," (See blue link at bottom)

Russ helped me with my room and has been a friend for more than 30 years. I do photography for his main acoustical contractor here in Dallas.

RBDG

albertporter

Owner
But I am not in charge of designing this system. By the way, I think that your suggestion that 2 percent of the public are audiophiles is wildly optimistic!

Then I hope they put you in charge Eldartford. I'm ready for a digital system that works superbly, one that beats my analog so I can sit with a remote and have the sound I have now.

I agree the 2% number is optimistic, I used it because of your 98% figure.

As for the mirror, my friends description is for common bathroom variety. I get a clear mental picture of one of those glued back together and it would not be adequate for stargazing (before or after smashing it).

albertporter

Owner
Nrostov,

A friend of mine who is in the recording business likens digital to a mirror that has been smashed and broken into hundreds of thousands of tiny shards and then glued back together. Sure, you can see your reflection but the pieces are never perfect, they always appear distorted and jagged.

That same engineer did my listening rooms acoustic work, designed the studio for Whitney Houston and for NFL. He says it's common knowledge that analog is better but the need to make the music business profitable and conform to the general publics desire for convenience overrides all.

Speaking of convenience, my comment about Apple selling downloads is considered by many in the music business to be the ideal model. When a way is devised to completely control it, we will see the beginning of the end of personal ownership of factory produced "hard" music.

albertporter

Owner
Ray, if they have a better format, (and how would we know?) it's certainly not being talked about.

Like all businesses, the music industry is struggling to make a profit in tough times. Those of us that crave quality are in the minority.

Speaking of which Eldartford says,
Existing digital material is already better than 98 percent of the systems it is played on, and improvement would therefore be, from the Sony/Philips point of view, a waste of time and money. I believe that, without going beyond 24bit 96 KHz, the addition of some data processing in the playback system could emulate whatever it is about vinyl that some folk like.

When I discuss such topics Eldartford, I'm addressing that remaining 2% of the public called audiophiles. We have been over this many times and it's obvious that you think digital is fine. I'm happy for you, so you may assume my comments are directed at others.

albertporter

Owner
If I could change anything in high end audio it would be digital. I believe it could be made superior to any analog we have ever heard (honestly).

Sony and Phillips are giants and have almost unlimited resources. They developed the CD format more than 20 years ago and have rested on their patents ever since.

I have no doubt that a format could be developed that would equal the best analog and still be backward compatible (at present quality) with standard CD playback. This could be any one of the new formats that hold infinitely more data than the original CD.

I don't think the shortcomings of digital is due to limits in your Krell, or new designs from Cary or EMM or any other high end manufacturer. All those companies are making an honest effort to build a word class player. The problem is, the data on CD and even SACD is poor. It's simply not possible to engineer a player "after the fact" that extracts data that is not there.

Perhaps Blue Ray or other multi layer disc will inspire some bright designer or company to push the limit of digital so everyone can enjoy near "master tape" quality.

Unfortunately the reality is Apple is selling the heck out of MP3 downloads for a dollar a pop and all the record companies see is big profits without the need for pressing software or developing new hardware.

albertporter

Owner
Justin, I gave up on digital after attacking the problem head on for a number of years, spending thousands and thousands of dollars and borrowing what I could not afford to find "magic."

In the end I moved more side to side than up. There are great sounding combos and prices at every budget. In the end the analog is so much more involving I never emotionally connected to the digital player, regardless of cost.

The Sony I have plays DVD, CD, SACD and the movie playback is very good. Sound is average I guess, there are Denon's and Sony's and Marantz players that are all good bang for the buck.

Mine is now five years old. I paid about $900.00 for it some weeks after introduction. It has been in warranty until this month :^).

I assume it's still worth a few hundred dollars to me for movies, even if I could not find a buyer at Audiogon (if I wanted to sell it).

So I guess I satisfy myself that it's a no hassle, moderately good player for breaking in cable and background music. I am simply not willing to drop $20K plus to get something that is perhaps half way between the Sony and my analog.

Neither the expensive or cheap hits the mark, so decided to go cheap and not stress about "fixing" something that I don't believe I can be fixed.

albertporter

Owner
Yes, I understand. One of my best friends is in the real estate business. Owns shopping centers in several cities across the USA.

He can easily make a decision that I anguish over, I have to struggle to pay for what he can buy with fun money.

albertporter

Owner
Thank you Alex, I appreciate your kind remarks.

albertporter

Owner
Justin,

I began with managing a high end store in the Dallas/Ft.Worth area in the 1960's. That store sold McIntosh, Bozak, AR, Dual, Thorens, KLH, Electro Voice, Sennheiser, Tandberg, Sony, Marantz, SME, Grado, Ortofon, Decca and Sherwood, just to name what comes immediately to mind.

After several years there I was offered a store of my own (down the street) and was financed and floor planned with the lines I wanted. I worked there for a couple of years and turned it over to them to accept a job as factory rep in a five state area.

Our lines were Ampex, Infinity, Yamaha, Denon, JBL, Kirksaeter, MB Electronics, and Crown International. Constant travel caused a lot of stress between my wife and I and I quit the rep business to work for the largest music store in Dallas. We sold musical instruments from pianos to PA systems and our stereo department had Infinity, B&W, JBL, Yamaha, Pioneer, Audio Research, Spatial Coherence, Thorens, SME, Altec Lansing, Duntech, Braun (later called ADS), Marantz and JA Michell.

During the time at that store I worked part time in photography and was on retainer with Southland Corp. They had enormous real estate holdings and I photographed their properties from the ground and from a helicopter with 35MM and Hasselblad.

It finally got where Southland was paying me more than commissions at any local high end store, so I switched jobs. This was going on between 1972 and 1977.

After that time I worked part time at two local Dallas high end stores for fun, when I had no assignments. My constant travel to CES during the time I was in the business allowed me enough contacts to ask high end audio companies for their business in the way of product photography.

This succeeded wildly, as I have (or still do) ads for Audioquest, Purist Audio, Music Meter, FIM, Cable Research, Record Research, Counterpoint, McCormack Audio, PSE, Sound Lab, Graham, Benz, Basis, Aesthetix, Versa Dynamics and many others.

So, my love for both hobbies is with me still, even after all these years. Fortunate I have been able to make them work in harmony.

albertporter

Owner
I agree with your assessment of Audioquest sound.

Since their humble beginnings, they became big and powerful and moved away from their original sound. During the years Joe Harley was gone from Audioquest, working for JVC on the Xrcd project, things changed.

Joe has great ears, we have listened together many times and disagree very little on what pleases us. Joe is back with Audioquest now, I saw him at the show and we spoke briefly. It will be interesting to see where the company goes in the next couple of years.

As for power cords, you should try Elrod and Purist, both are excellent and I suspect one of the two will sway you from where you are now. The Elrod to try is the Signature power cord and the Purist to try is the new Aqueous Anniversary power cord.

albertporter

Owner
Believe it or not Nrostov, at one time Audioquest made the best cable there was.

Although that was more than 20 years ago, even during late '80's through '90's, their conservative copper designs were good solid performers, and some of those designs are equal or better than some of today's "start up" brands.

As for Tara, no doubt a cut above. The national sales rep was a friend of mine, lived here in Dallas not far from me and we had many opportunities to listen together.

As long as were naming other brands I respect I should throw in Elrod as an alternate power cable. I think it outperforms the Shunyata you favor but I'm glad both of these are the magic match for you.

albertporter

Owner
The Graham Phantom is supposed to be excellent but I have not heard that model. I owned three of Bob's earlier versions before moving back into linear tracking tables.

Glad the speaker cable worked out. I have no doubt they play a big role in system performance, I've auditioned lots of cable and there is a world of difference between the best and worst. Many name brands came through my photo studio when I was so heavy into photographing them for ads.

Many are good and some are clearly excellent, but after all the tests Purist has remained for 20 years. Maybe you've found your soul mate too with your choice.

albertporter

Owner
Nrostov, I reread what you posted and you were clear enough, I was just thinking about cartridge / arm combo.

In spite of having owned quite a few turntables and tonearms, I never owned a Rega or a Grado. I do have some experience with the Grados of years ago when I was in the stereo business, but back then the Ortofon moving coil's were my favorite.

I guess If I started with that turntable with no arm or cartridge, I would likely go SME 5 arm and Koetsu cartridge, assuming those are a good match (I would have to research).

I know the SME has great dynamics and bass and the Gyrodec is quiet, so that should be a great combo.

You could upgrade your wire, but what you have is so good that changes at the source would be more significant and a better investment long term, especially if you could score used product at Audiogon.

albertporter

Owner
I think the cartridge would be the bigger upgrade with your present system. Certainly the EAR electronics will support a moving coil cartridge, which I prefer to the Grado. Perhaps a Denon, Dynavector, Benz or Koetsu depending on budget and what sound you like.

There are lots of posts here at Audiogon discussing matching cartridge and tonearm. I would review that before making a decision.

It's also possible that you will prefer your present Grado. Your system synergy and personal taste is impossible to assess without listening with you. If it were my system (assuming there is not a mechanical problem) I would go with Koetsu Rosewood Platinum. I have heard that cartridge with your speakers and it's wonderful.

albertporter

Owner
Nrostov,

I clicked on your system to try and find the cartridge but did not see it. What are you running in the Gyrodec?

The Tara cables are much better than a lot of what's out there. Let me know the cartridge and I will answer you.

albertporter

Owner
Dmurfet,

"Rolling" is a recent popular slang for tube swapping. I don't use the term myself but right now seems to be as popular as "PRaT" (Pace, Rhythm and Timing).

Then again, I don't use "PRaT" either.

albertporter

Owner
Gregadd, didn't mean to ignore you. We are so deep in tube lore I missed your post.

The Jade is everything the Rosewood is and more. Actually the motor inside the two cartridges is the same, only the body is changed. The Jade is much faster and more transparent and greatly extended in the highs compared to the Rosewood, without having any glare or artificial brightness. I would say it's the most perfectly balanced cartridge I have ever heard.

I don't know if you read the review at Hi Fi + by Roy Gregory, but he did an excellent job of describing the sound. He compared the Jade to several of the best cartridges and fell in love with the Jade, just as I did.

At first it seemed odd that the body could have such an effect on the sound. Then, when thinking about musical instruments, I realized this is one of the biggest differences. Solid versus hollow body guitars come to mind pretty quickly, even if both are electric the sound is very different.

albertporter

Owner
Zaikes, I love the Illinois Jacquet, my copy has a tiny bit of noise which is no surprise since it's half a century old.

Janos, good to hear from you. Looks like you and Alex are ganging up on me to go for KT88's in my VTL's. Did you try only the Wing C KT88? Alex appears to favor the EH version. I can't possibly buy both sets.

albertporter

Owner
Excellent, I understand completely.

Maybe I will score a big photo shoot and have spare cash to purchase a complete set of EH KT88 and we can compare notes again. If the wholesale price was good enough I might use them for a short while and sell at a vary small loss, provided they did not work out.

I have new amp stands arriving from Grand Prix audio and four of the new Contego based power cords coming from Purist, so I have enough changes at hand to keep me busy for a couple of weeks.

albertporter

Owner
I had the Sovtek 6550 tubes that came with the (silver) VTL 750's I bought from the dealer.

The (black) VTL 750's that I just replaced tubes in came with the older version Svetlana (dimple top) from St. Petersburg.

The new tubes (smooth top) are the Wing C 6550C- WC, and there is a good bit of improvement in the high frequencies on this latest version.

In addition to those three sets of 6550's, I did experiments with the Tube Research GT400 that still influences me. I auditioned Tesla KT88, Sovtek KT88, Gold Dragon, Svetlana 6550 (before name change) and Mullard EL35 XF1 and XF2. I did learn from that experience and carries over to my approach with tubes today.

I appreciate very much your kind offer for the loan of the KT88's. Unfortunately 24 is the minimum number that would operate (either) the highs or lows.

One solution would be If the back-ordered Wing C's arrive before I can decide if I want to cancel. Louis, a friend in my audio group ordered them and now has decided to sell his VTL 750's in favor of four Lamm ML2.

If I decide to keep them on order, I would be willing to send you a set for a 20 to 50 hour audition. That would help me with break in and then you could tell me if your opinion remains the same.

Of course that still would not let me know if results would be perceived the same in my system. For the real test a complete set of KT88 is needed, but 48 of them (tube all four amps) is more than $1300.00, at wholesale cost.

A lot of money, especially if I didn't like them as much as the cheaper 6550's.

Bea at VTL says Wing C 6550C is superior in the bass and that makes it difficult because I LOVE the way my speakers are making bass right now and several guys in my group were raving about my midrange last night.

albertporter

Owner
Zaikes, my shipment of Wing C 6550's arrived and I replaced the tubes in my VTL 750's that drive the Dali's bass through 1K frequencies. With only 6 hours on the tubes, we had the best sound to date.

By that, I mean the best sound I have EVER had with any speaker. Three of my audio club members said the same thing, one kept commenting about how perfect the midrange was. Another guy kept saying, "where did you hide the sub woofers?"

Of course I don't have subs, but the system sounded like we had a couple of Rel's running the very bottom end. It was truly amazing.

The blending of the two new sets of Wing C 6550 worked a minor miracle. I have detail in the midrange and bass that is scary tight and deep. I have not tried the KT88 you mention but wonder what a full compliment of Wing C 6550 tubes might do in the way of correcting your perception of errors in overall tonal balance?

It's not practical for me to do a test beyond the three sets of outputs I've run in the VTL's. I add that experience to tests on Tube Research GT400 from several years ago when I tried KT88, 6550 and NOS Mullard EL34, all complete sets and long term listening.

In the end the Mullard and Svetlana (now Wing C) were the winners, but of course tubes have changed since then and so have my amps.

albertporter

Owner
Thank you for that very nice compliment Justin. Your welcome to call me if I can help. I have become good friends with Lars in Denmark and Ben here in the USA. Great people and a great company, I think you would be happy with the Megalines.

albertporter

Owner
Matt

SO I guess I'll wait until it arrives and see what I have. In your opinion, if the amps only have 400-500 hours on them, do I need new 6550's yet? And I am curious to see if he has real Svetlana's or newer ones (Sovtek's)... I may take you up on your offer for the extra set of tubes (depending on how much they are).


The short answer is no, you do not need to replace the tubes if they really have only 400 hours on them. Any 6550 in that circuit can go 3000 hours before replacement, due to the conservative circuit design.

If after receiving the VTL's, you discover they are not Wing C 6550, you can decided if it's important to replace them (just sell what you have) or wait until they wear out and do it right the next time around. A quick way to check the tubes is pull one and look at the logo and inspection holes. The Wing C when it was named Svetlana will have square holes (NOT round) in the plates behind the glass. If it's the newer version of that same tube, it will also have the square holes and logo (a Cyrillic S) printed on the glass.

If the tube says Svetlana and has round holes, it's a Sovtek that is branded with the trademark they now own and not the same tube.

Before you swap the 6350 or the 12AT7, you need time to settle in with the amp. Get your speakers, get the amp and enjoy what you have. Then after your comfortable with your system, email me and we can swap phone numbers and I will help you with other tubes.

albertporter

Owner
Re tubing the VTL 750 is easy. Go for the output tubes the amp was originally designed and voiced for, the Wing C 6550, previously called Svetlana.

Just Don’t buy Svetlana, as both they and the Tung Sol you mention are now Sovtek (or variations of).

The Wing C tubes are somewhat hard to come by right now, the manufacturing plant is picky about materials and they are having some delivery problems. Believe me, they ARE worth waiting for.

Worse case, I am committed to 25 right now for a guy in my group who decided he does not need them, so I may have a spare set. My wholesale account with the distributor gets me a good price, so email me through Audiogon if you have interest, or I can cancel with no penalty. (No big deal either way).

As for other tubes for the 750. There are two per chassis 6350, and one per chassis 12AT7. For 6350 best so far is black plate RCA and the 12AT7 MUST be a Telefunken. I have tried them all and this is no contest in my opinion.

Currently I am testing a very rare Telefunken substitute for the RCA 6350 and will know soon if it's worth your pursuing. I will give you the name of my supplier if they work out.

As for 12AT7 Telefunken, they commonly show up at EBAY or maybe I can find a pair out of my stock to sell you if you can't find two on your own. Your also welcome to try mine against some others if your in the testing mood.

But first priority is replacing the output tubes and afterward, about 20 hours of burn in before going further, otherwise you will be running in circles trying to figure out what tube is contributing to the overall sound.

albertporter

Owner
Bill,

The Signature upgrade replaces many resistors and capacitors in the main unit and they sound terrible until completely broken in.

I agree the Signature is not as warm and gushing, even after break in, but dynamics are improved, the image is tightened up, distortion lowered and extension of the upper high frequencies is much improved.

Plus, NOS tubes can be selected to make the Signature as "organic" as the non Signature Version while retaining the improvements Jim came up with.

The quick path to improving an Io is swapping the EL34 Sovteks in the power supply for Mullard XF2 (cost about $100.00 total) and replacing the Russian 6SN7's for ruby base RCA 5692's (about $100.00) and then the four first stage 12AX7 Sovteks for Telefunken 12AX7 (cost $120.00 to $400.00 depending on how you shop :^).

These are the best bang for the buck, although NOS tubes in every position is easily audible and important if you've taken care of everything else.

albertporter

Owner
Bill, believe it or not, I was the first person to run dual supplies. It was my idea.

At first Jim White had doubt that anyone else would be interested due to the high cost, but now everyone accepts it as normal. Who knows, maybe my tube crossover will be accepted by Dali owners 6 years from now too.

I converted the circuit board on my original Aesthetix Io to accept the second supply by way of faxes and phone from Jim White and as they say, the rest is history.

I think the Signature mods that Jim developed are greater performance than the second supply and the Io run into a Callisto is vital (if you have to choose).

Don't forget the importance of NOS tubes too, they work minor miracles in both pieces.

By the way, I am working on a project for custom umbilical cords for both the Io and the Callisto. Jim White shipped factory connectors to me last week and should arrive soon.

Prototypes could be ready fairly quickly as they are to be based on the new Contego power cord technology developed by Purist Audio. Jim White has graciously offered to test the prototype for errors, so I don't risk damage doing the audition against the originals.

albertporter

Owner
Hello Brooney,

You obviously have analog as one of your sources, otherwise no need for an Aesthetix Io. I've heard the Io alone, driving the amps directly and also used other line stages in combination with the Io.

I love the Io but could not use is without a line stage and best results were obtained by connecting it via balanced cables to the Callisto (it's design mate). The sonic benefit of adding the Callisto is more dynamics, greater contrast, a more solid, believable image / soundstage, larger, more powerful bass and of course the flexibility that comes from the additional inputs and outputs.

The Io by itself sounds pale and pastel compared to pairing with the Callisto. In listening tests, I preferred the sound of the Io coupled with Audio Research Ref 2 over an Io alone, so I think it's about the benefit of additional buffering and gain stages, then deciding which preamp is it's, ideal mate.

After much listening I settled on the Callisto, but there are at least two preamps on the horizon I want to audition, just be sure I'm where I need to be.

Worthy of mentioning too, the long awaited remote control package for the Aesthetix Callisto is nearing completion. This is a project that began more than five years ago and shelved time and again because Jim White refused any design that negatively effected performance.

albertporter

Owner
The new Dali crossover is balanced, mine is single ended. My understanding is there are two single ended factory crossovers, designed as phase plus and phase minus and wired for balanced. Comments from Dali was that the sound with the balanced McIntosh was much improved over single ended with same.

I doubt the balanced crossover is anywhere near the improvement my tube unit is, but if necessary a balanced tube unit could be constructed. I think the big plus was the McIntosh responds favorably to balanced design and that's the improvement everyone was hearing.

I must admit that of the multiple times I've heard McIntosh I was impressed. I am NOT a solid state guy but Mc portrays mids and highs as fluid and extended without the brash whitish and cold errors common to some solid state designs. Gryphon, Roland, Classe and McIntosh all seem to avoid that error, at least it seems so based on my limited listening experiences.

Wing C 6550's are sounding wonderful in the amp running the ribbons. The tubes in my bass amp are probably near 3K hour mark and I can hardly wait to re tube them. Problem has been getting Wing C tubes as they have been slow delivery for months and months.

I have another 25 coming from my 100 piece order this week.

albertporter

Owner
Mattnshilp, I did hear them, but did not notice an improvement. Perhaps it's been too long since my last audition. Truth is, I'm not a big fan of their sound but then again, that's why so many speakers and sounds.

I was fascinated by the Martln Coltrane Supreme, a new super speaker that cost too much to consider ($250K) and a new preamp from Ayon Audio.

I also listened with interest to the Analysis Audio Loudspeakers, thought they were promising. I liked the Dali Megalines with their new fully balanced crossover powered by four 1200 watt McIntosh amps and all other components by McIntosh.

EAR had a new cool turntable, SAP and Grand Prix had new tables and I saw the (very ugly) Caliburn turntable at 80K (+).

I spoke to Martina Schoener about the Loricraft (Garrard 501) for review. I would love to hear that table with a Kuzma air arm or maybe a SME.

A normal CES, nothing stunning. Then again, I can only remember a few shows in 21 years where a break through product was shown and achieved recognition on the spot. All this stuff takes time, just as all of us struggle with our own systems to get them right.

albertporter

Owner
Eric,

Good to hear from you. Are you still teaching at the University or back in the Justice system?

Call me as the wedding date nears, no question you and your wife are welcome!

I hope to have my restored Ampex 351 back by that time. If so, we can see who wins the battle for best sound :^).

albertporter

Owner

Thomas, regarding:

Hey albert.. do you now anything about this page ??

www.hifigalleri.dk/html/gal_vi...

Or are he just stealing your pictures ??


Thanks for notifying me. That link may be to a site that "rolls over" its content, just as the front page at Audiogon does. I could not find an image that resembled my work. Do you have a way for me to look it up?

Also, was the image from my photography web site or my system at Audiogon?

albertporter

Owner
By the way, the distributor forwarded me the following web site address. It's the official explanation of "Svetlana" to "Wing C."

http://www.wingedc.com/

albertporter

Owner
I Just got a phone call from the USA, SED distributor.

They just received their long awaited shipment of Wing C 6550's. I've had 50 pieces back-ordered for nearly two months. They will ship tomorrow (finally!).

I will post results after I replace the tubes in my bass amp (as I did after replacing them in the VTL 750's for the Dali ribbons).

The 750's that run the bass has the older version SED, back when they were still marked Svetlana, that means these are several years old.

The new glass should tighten things up considerably and relieve any concerns over the high hours accumulated on those original outputs.

albertporter

Owner
Jafox.

I wonder what two pairs of JL-3's might sound like with the Dalis.

I would like to know the answer to that too. When entering the realm of bi-amping with VTL and CAT the dollar value gets pretty crazy. Even if a local had the JL-3's, it's unlikely they would have two pair.

albertporter

Owner
Alex, please keep us up to date on the test. The new Tung Sol is getting praise from a couple of tube vendor friends of mine but I still suspect it's more a hot rod Sovtek than a resurrected USA Tung Sol.

Speaking of tubes, I met the rep for EAT (European Audio Tubes) while in Ken Stevens room (CAT). Ken and I became fast friends, we talked about many things, laughed and had dinner together Thursday night.

EAT was being represented by Jozefina Krahulocova, CEO. I am trying to get some of these for testing as Ken said they are equal to Gold Lion KT88.

albertporter

Owner
Sorry Dmurfet, out of my experience range. There is no provision on the back panel nor did I see a tap internally when Richard Gray was working on one last year.

I suggest you call or email VTL for a quote before making a move to buy a 120 Volt model with the idea of converting.

albertporter

Owner

Dmurfet regarding:

Your VTL amps - do the power supply and amplifier stage separate in the mono blocks or are they just one chassis - the pictures look like they are single chassis with double handles?

Nextly, how many tubes do you get through? I read with fascination about all the various different brands you are all trying (and having difficulty sourcing too!) How much time and effort is it keeping all the plates spinning without losing the battle? Do you keep many spare tubes on hand?

The VTL 750 is actually two chassis with power supply and transformers in the lower portion and tubes mounted (all vertically) in the upper chassis, along with various regulators, resistors and circuit boards.

The faceplate is one piece and covers both chassis. The face place must be removed before separating the twin chassis for some service issues. This is not the case for replacement fuses or tubes.

As for tubes, the requirement is minimal, at least as far as variety.

My four VTL 750's require only four 12AT7 input tubes and eight 6350. All output tubes are the same, either KT88 or 6550.

As Alex and I have been discussing on this thread, voicing VTL's by way of swapping tubes is an effective way to personalize the amps for your own system and taste. This is normal for me, just part of owning tube gear. I've gone through this same testing and listening with every piece of tube gear I've ever owned and how I base my opinions.

I have been collecting various tubes for many years and have hundreds of them on hand as my regular stock. The Telefunken 12AT7 is common to many high end audio products and was in my stock. The 6350 is a bit of an oddball and this is the first piece of gear that called for this tube.

As for keeping up with them. I grade tubes by experimentation to rank them sonically. Within each group of favorite tubes I bag all the tested ones into Ziplock bags and write down the transconductance score which I obtain with my Hickok 752A (fully restored tester).

It sounds complicated to discuss but after experimenting with tubes they become familiar to you, just as your favorite recording artists.

Eventually when you read or hear the tube name, it's as easy as remembering a piece of music you love.

Finding the right tubes is just icing on the cake, VTL amps are fine as they arrive stock in the crate, but like most audiophiles I find the effort worthwhile to extract that last bit of performance by replacing some of the stock tubes with NOS.

albertporter

Owner
I just returned from CES late last night, nice show people wise. Sound is all over the place as usual.

these shows not only aren't on my calendar, I'm not even aware they're going on unless I catch a true audiophile happen to mention it...Have a bang-up time Albert!

Thanks Alex, and thanks to Nate and Ray for advice about Pez collecting. I'll look into that if I get tired of music.

Meanwhile, Nate and Ray should send me their music software (it's just taking up space) to make room for their growing Pez dispenser collection.

albertporter

Owner
Thank you Alex, there is good word on the street about the TungSol.

Be aware guys that I jet out of here tomorrow for CES. I will check in here again tonight after my music group leaves.

So, don't think me rude if I don't respond until the show ends. Audiogon has not contracted me to cover this show, so the laptop stays home this trip and I'm taking a tiny "point and shoot" for my own use.

albertporter

Owner
Mejames.

Sure, the 12AT7 input tubes have a big effect on tonal balance as do the 6350 tubes. Like Alex, I found replacing the 6350 as important as the input tube in spite of the reasonably low hours on them.

I also swapped output tubes on the recently acquired pair of VTL 750's. When I bought them the dealer told me he had re tubed them with original. Unfortunately he bought "Svetlana" as the old original tubes were branded, not knowing they are now owned by the Sovtek people.

I removed all the outputs and replaced with Wing C 6550, several people in my group said that was as significant as the input tube changes and I agree with them.

In the end, tube changes and all, the sound is superb with Tetrode.

albertporter

Owner
Alex,

On the matter of Triode versus Tetrode, there's additional control in the deep bass and sparkle in the highs with Tetrode that Triode misses. Maybe it's just my system or my taste, but the results we’re the same even with the AirTight ATM3 tubed up with Mullard Xf2's. I still preferred the Tetrode mode and AirTight is known for it's Triode sound.

As for crossover, I agree the EQ was excessive. I'm sure on paper and maybe even with big solid state amps at the factory, the test numbers were better. Listening and numbers do not always correlate and although my custom crossover has less boost, it delivers more coherent, detailed and controlled bass than the original. Of course we are also comparing two completely different circuits, the Dali is solid state and mine is octal tube with tube rectified outboard power supply.

I've mentioned this several times, in my opinion one of the most important benefits of my tube crossover was the elimination of the gain circuit. The factory unit supplied 2.3 volts additional gain (above preamp level) all accomplished via OP amps and transistors.

Regardless of preamp chosen, the last thing the VTL's saw was the transistor gain stage in the factory crossover. With the tube crossover there is no gain on high frequencies, minimal parts to achieve crossover and a 6HM6 Pentode for the small amount of gain necessary below 1KH ( woofs).

albertporter

Owner
Matt, no I have not tried the new VTL Siegfried. I've heard mixed reviews from friends in the industry. Some say it's their greatest accomplishment and others say it sounds more solid state and has moved too far from the superb sound of the 750 and 1250.

At twice the price (for equal power) as the previous line, I would have to be convinced it was a much better amp, were talking $80K for two pair.

I'm running my VTL 750's in Tetrode.

albertporter

Owner
HEY KUBLA ! How are you. Still working on your movie?

What pictures are you wishing you could see?

albertporter

Owner
Matt, first of all my custom tube crossover did not change the Megalines efficiency. That is a factor of the speaker components and cabinet.

It's possible they could require more power if the crossover had been designed with a huge boost in bass frequencies, asking more power from the amps. In truth the reverse was applied to my crossover and I will explain this further on.

We designed the tube crossover to have identical slopes and near identical EQ as the original Dali unit, exceptions were the EQ and volume be adjustable so I could match two different amps.

The other change is the total amount of EQ is actually a LESS than the stock crossover at super deep frequencies as I detected shimmering vibration of the Dali ribbons when super deep wave fronts were recorded within the music.

This was due to the cabinet oscillating (shaking the ribbons) or perhaps an air wave that created a disturbance that caused the ribbons to run out of their bounds. The factory EQ was so drastic, that we measured over 12 DB boost below 12 HZ (relative to 440 HZ reference with zero boost) and there seemed to be no limit on how much further down this boost continued.

I can't hear 12 HZ, not even a big pipe organ can go to 12 HZ and the Dali can't go that deep anyway, so all that extra boost was doing was creating a problem for the amps. In fact, at high sound pressure levels and intense program material, the VTL 750 was the only amp that flew through the program material without oversaturating it's output transformer.

Still, the ribbons behaved in a much more linear and productive way once the oscillation was stopped, so the change was for the better regardless of what amplifier was ultimately chosen.

Anyway, that's a whole other story I could devote a complete thread to. I hope to have the energy to include that discussion in my review at PFO so others will understand the evolution path.

Like you, in the beginning I assumed a moderate power amp for the ribbons like a 100 watt Cary or the 150 watt Air Tight. I thought there was a good possibility these same moderate powered amps might drive the woofers as well and went about my experiments.

The analogy between automobiles may not have been the best way to describe the differences between a VTL 750 and the other amps I tested, but sonically the VTL seems to be so much more powerful, exercise so much more control and go so much deeper and with tighter bass, that I though of a huge powerful V8 saving your buns when passing a big truck.

Your right about efficiency. Common sense tells me that 40 watts per channel will push these babies as loud as I would ever want and hooking up four Dynaco MK4 mono's with NOS Mullard Xf2 tubes produced a glorious sound.

The reason these worked is the Megalines are nominal 6 ohms and easy to drive. However, the "personality" of every amp hooked up to them controls how the system will perform, day in and day out and literally SETS THE LIMITS of what the speaker can do.

Every amp has a sonic signature, regardless of how perfect or neutral the designer or advertisements say they are. In the end it's about powering the speakers with an amp with sufficient power with impedance, dynamics and timbre all taken into consideration. AND, choosing an amp that achieves this with the most believable tonal balance, dynamics and control.

We've all had that moment when amplifier "X" or preamplifier "X" was inserted into our system and we were blown away. Sometimes that LAST piece of equipment gets more credit than due. Sometime the old piece was keeping you from hearing the OTHER improvements you were steadily making without the "bang" you expected.

I try to consider all that and not get too carried away. I have a review of the Dali published at Positive Feedback and have been working on part two for several months. I go slow because I don't want to misrepresent end results and end results are a combination of every piece of the puzzle.

Bottom line, the VTL has the personality the Dali needs. The Dali is one of the fastest speakers I have ever heard. The VTL 750 is a massive, dynamic, punchy sounding amp and just what the Dali's need to "balance" their personality.

Hope that makes sense.

albertporter

Owner
Eldartford

Regarding
Zaikesman...Your suggestion regarding the straightforward quality of the VTL amps affecting Albert's perception is plausible to me, although I bet that Albert will deny it. As a long time biamper I can tell you that there is also a psychological factor at work...it just "feels" right to use the same amps. Looks tidy too.

The Dali people say that because the crossover point is at the most sensitive part of human hearing (about 1K) that the amps must be identical to preserve phase accuracy and tonality.

Differences between various amps is quite noticeable when switching between two distinct designs after listening for a few hours to each. With both designs playing at the same moment, it destroys the illusion.

As for looking tidy, I will bite for that. I like the look of all four amps being the same, but my dream was for 4 Air Tight ATM3's. Small, easy to bias, use EL34 tubes (which I have TONS of) and so on.

The VTL 750's cost twice as much, weigh twice a much, take up twice as much room, more difficult to bias and I am not "buds" with the warranty station as I am with AirTight.

So the decision to go with four VTL 750's was because they kicked my butt into buying them with their performance.

albertporter

Owner
Nate, I don't know about smoke, looked at local news. Perhaps it's reported better where you live than here at home.

The gent that got my Sound-Labs was very excited about their performance and frankly, I felt a bit disappointed in losing them until I had sufficient time to get the Dali Megalines right.

Like all major changes in ones system, it takes a lot of effort to tweak it where the magic returns. I have always said you could choose any one of a dozen state of the art speakers and given a year or two with experimenting, get sound that keeps you in your seat all night.

You can only get just so happy. I was there with the Sound-Labs and I am (now) there with the Dali. Both are excellent and although the Dali has strengths that surpass the Sound-lab, you simply don't think about it when sitting in front of a pair of tweaked Sound-Lab Ultimate Ones :^).

I have performance two or three times what I had when you last listened. It's almost unrecognizable from how it performed with the old amps, old crossover, old cartridge, old cabling and acoustic and speaker placement changes.

Wish you would arrange to come listen again. Besides, I scored some more master dupes and they are a blast. My Ampex is finished too, hope to get it after CES. The guy has been working on it for months and I think it's going to kick some serious booty on my old open reel.

albertporter

Owner
Jjhf5678, I just realized I breezed past your post without answering.

Upgrading to a second power supply for either the Aesthetix Io or Aesthetix Callisto is an important change. It continues the strengths of these pieces in the same direction they are already traveling.

Specifically, second power supply increases space and placement of individual instruments within the music, there's a better sense of boundaries and acoustics of where the recording was made (if evident in the recording in the first place :^), and perhaps a bit more contrast by way of head room and dynamics.

There is an improvement in overall imaging too, probably because each channel has its own supply, although I admit to not being all that sensitive to imaging. Tonal balance, textures, micro detail and dynamics are all more important to me.

To put things in perspective, upgrading to two supplies is not as important as swapping out the old for NOS tubes nor as important as the factory upgrades between old and newer versions.

For instance, an early Io or Callisto with original resistor and capacitor configuration and dual power supplies is no match for the latest version with only one power supply.

I hope that puts upgrade path in the proper perspective before you invest one way or the other.

albertporter

Owner
Eldartford,

When at CES why don't you ask the Dali folk, not *whether* the amps need to be the same, but *why* the amps need to be the same. I cannot think of any technical reason.

Neither can I.

Unfortunately, while doing all this testing and listening I discovered they are correct.

I just spoke with Dali USA and they will be at CES. They are in a cheerful mood as USA sales of the Megaline have exceeded all expectations.

If Lars is there from Denmark I will ask the question. He is very supportive.

albertporter

Owner
Sorry Eldartford, your post appeared while I was composing mine. I hope I explained sufficiently but will elaborate a bit more on your exact question.

I did a lot of testing over more than a year period. I had six pair of amps for testing if you count all that I borrowed, owned or was modifying-repairing for friends.

I had several discussions with Dali in Denmark, including a face to face at the London Hi Fi show and a brief visit at CES last year. Both times the team leader said NO to any kind of amplifier mixing. Their claims are that perfect coherency can never be achieved unless all four channels of power are ABSOLUTELY identical.

I must say I shared your opinion. Ribbon and woofers are so far apart in design it seems they would wash away any but the most radical differences between amps. The truth hit me when I finally began matching amps, two pair of Dynaco's, two pair of Air Tight ATM-3 and two pair of VTL 750's.

With the help of my custom crossovers ability to precisely adjust both bass EQ and gain, I assumed I could get within a fraction of a DB and achieve perfection with almost any combo. This turned out not to be the case.

I WANTED the results to be different than how it turned out. I entered the test with prejudices for simpler results. My first choice would have been four Air Tight's, second choice would be two Air Tight and two VTL 750's.

Dead last choice would be four huge, expensive VTL 750's, and a conclusion I would have never come to without a lot of listening.

albertporter

Owner
Matt.

Do the Mega's really need so much power? I can't seam to find an efficiency rating on the Megaline’s anywhere, but these line source speakers are usually fairly efficient. Is the necessary power a result of your crossover?

The answer is no. The Megaline is about 90 DB efficient and played loud enough to fill my fairly large room with four Dynaco Mk4 (40 watt) mono block amps.

The issue is more one of personality than power. A perfect example is two identical automobiles, one with a marginal 6 cylinder engine and the other with a 450 cubic inch (plus) V8 engine. Both push the body along fast enough to meet every posted speed limit and both are likely capable of doing 100 miles per hour.

So why in the world would anyone choose the big V8? If you've ever been in a bind passing a large truck on the freeway you know the answer.

Amplifiers are exactly the same. Each have personalities and power is measured by their power supplies and dynamic capability as much as how "loud" they can push your speakers. There is something special about VERY large amps such as Tube Research GT400, Audio Research Ref 600 and VTL 750. I've owned the Tube Research and VTL and my best friend had the ARC for more than long enough for me to understand it's capabilities.

That same friend now powers his Kharma Exquisite 1De with VTL 750's and if I remember correctly the Kharma is 91 or 92 DB efficient. After hearing my system he is now seeking to bi-amp his Kharmas and considering a second pair of VTL.

Yes it's insane until you hear it.

So what we're discussing is preferences and standards as opposed to simply what will work.

As for the preamp, I have owned, borrowed or auditioned ARC Ref 2 Mk2, Manley Steelhead, VTL, EASE Magnum, Atma-Sphere, CJ ART and others. The Aesthetix is my current standard and there are no tubes remaining that came with the unit. However this is also true of the Io, the tube DAC and the VTL 750's, except for the output tubes.

The crossover I helped design and had built is available from the builder at what it cost him to construct. I make nothing and Dali is not involved. There is another audiophile having this crossover constructed for his Megalines right now and his local dealer is very interested in the results.

I believe once people hear what this crossover does, replacing the stock Dali unit will become as common as modified and rebuilt crossovers on Maggies and Sound-Labs, and there are a LOT of them.

To revisit the amp thing one last time, the Dali has both strengths and weakness due to their multiple 6.5 inch woofer design. Strength is speed, speed and more speed. They move ever so slightly (due to their number) that even with strong light shining on their face and loud passages, they appear to hardly move. Very much like an electrostatic, low movement + ultra speed.

Their weakness is ability to deliver body punishing slam factor. Big woofers do this in spade but often sound slow or the pace of music is lost. So, putting one of the three most powerful and bass punchy amps on the planet into multiple small woofers, delivers lightning fast bass with body, slam and punch you would expect from multi 12" (or larger) woofers.

The very nature of these three big tube amps with multiple 6550 tube output stage all share a common strength, CONTROL. They border on control like a great solid state amp delivers but retain the tube magic. Don't forget that whatever goes on the bottom should go on the top for ultimate MATCH. So even if there existed a solid state amp that was equal or better than the VTL 750 on multiple woofers, I seriously doubt it would be a contender driving a 7 foot ribbon.

albertporter

Owner
Mattnshilp

I don't mind using a sub woofer if it is closely and accurately matched to the mains, but I would prefer not to as I find the performance more seamless without one.

Remember the cost involved to achieve believability, particularly if purchasing dual (high quality) subs for the line source speakers we're discussing.

That being said, the Megaline ABSOLUTELY does NOT need subs. At least not in my set up with my crossover, amps and associated equipment.

I will seek out Pipedreams at CES.

albertporter

Owner
Hello Matt,
The room you describe should sound good and support any of the speakers your considering, particularly if Rives has a hand the process.

As for speaker differences, I have experience with the Dali Megaline, Epiphany 20/21 and the Pipedream model of three years ago (?). I was not aware Pipedream had a new design, so my comments as based on my experience with the last model I auditioned.

With the power you have, there should be enough to drive the Dali and Epiphany to high sound pressure levels in the room you describe. If you use the outboard crossover with the Pipedream you can use multiple amps (as does the Dali), giving these two speakers more flexibility than the Epiphany.

As for sound, I much prefer the Dali to the Epiphany due to woofer size and ribbon design. The Epiphany uses the BG ribbon which is a bunch of drivers in metal housings whereas the Dali is free radiating (dipole) operation and only three elements make up the entire 7 foot long high frequency system.

Compared to the Pipedream, I prefer the Dali and Epiphany ribbons over their cone speaker high frequency configuration.

You ask about deep bass, the Dali does not need sub woofers to reach low frequencies with my tube aftermarket crossover and the right amps. The Dali is capable of frequencies as low as 19 HZ in the right situation and I'm guessing mine are doing a solid 24 HZ in my room.

The Epiphany will not do mid bass or deep bass (in my opinion) due to the small woofer design. The national sales manager for Epiphany is a good friend of mine, so I am very familiar with this company, its design and performance. I have heard this speaker multiple times at shows and at friends home here in Dallas (he since sold his).

The Pipedream is the wild card here, their website appears to be under construction with the statement "New website available before Christmas." It may be available very soon but today it did not have new material posted. Perhaps they will attend CES, if so I will absolutely make a point of listening.

I sincerely wish you the best on your venture, regardless of which speaker you decide on.

You welcome to listen at my home, I have the Dali Megalines so close to perfect, I have surpassed my own expectations. Call me if you can make it by for an audition, I will treat you as a welcome guest and we have about half a dozen other high end speakers at local friends homes if you want a multiple system experience.

albertporter

Owner
Dmurfet, regarding:

I must admit to struggling to try to understand the line sources snippet! My question related to RPG panels (I have just got seven installed myself) was that Dali had claimed little or no room treatment - yet you use it.....does this mean they might be exaggerating - or is it more searching for the absolute best sound you can get?

Kind regards

I don't understand the explanation all that well either but Linkwitz is known to be somewhat an authority. His was the best explanation I could find on line. Anyone else is welcome to cut and paste or provide a better link.

As for my room treatment, design and construction was completed when I was still a Sound-Lab Ultimate owner. Regardless of the speaker, I believe the room is "the other half" of the equipment in getting the music right.

Think of it this way, there are average concert halls and great concert halls. Average recording studios and great recording studios. No doubt the musicians are the most important part of the performance but many times the music is beyond spectacular, due to the venue.

Most residential homes are poorly designed when it comes to acoustics and regardless of what speaker I choose, the room would have been just as important.

If it's true that Dali stated room treatment was not necessary, I disagree with them.

albertporter

Owner
Zaikes, your question is out of my experience range, I don't know the rules for crossover point and number of drivers where the design is considered a "true" line source .

As for the design I choose, the Dali uses three ribbons so closely fastened together (after locking the cabinets) they essentially function as a single 7 foot unit. The 12 woofers are extremely closely spaced too as may be seen in one of the images in my system photo's (above).

Having come from a lengthy love affair with Sound-Lab Ultimates, which is a giant single driver speaker, only the Dali Megaline of all the current speaker designs had single crossover point, full bandwidth performance and line source performance (imaging and spread).

This last feature was almost as important as the first two, making it easy for me to adapt. The Dali creates an astonishingly HUGE soundstage, perfect imaging in the sweet spot and good imaging everywhere else in the room.

The Sound-Labs did this too, I guess it's a the performance criteria I find important.

albertporter

Owner
Dmurfet, Sorry, I just realized I did not respond to your comments about my room treatment.

I have a good friend in the acoustics business who offered his services for free while my room was under construction. He and I worked together years ago when I was employed as a factory rep for several high end audio manufacturers.

Following his plan, the placement of RPG panels, absorption treatment and construction methods were given to my contractor and he, along with a local acoustical treatment company, completed the job to specifications.

The acoustical treatment company is a customer of mine that does primarily recording studios. I've photographed dozens of their projects and was totally impressed with their quality, which included award winning designs for the Morton Meyerson Symphony Center (here in Dallas).

I am very pleased with the results as I have a wife and son and wanted the living room to sound excellent and be comfortable to all that sit down to listen with us.

albertporter

Owner
Dmurfet,

Rather than me guessing at the definition, see the quoted text below from linkwitz lab, a good authority on speaker and room design.

Design of line sources

As a line source I define a speaker with a very narrow and long radiating surface, which is used at frequencies above f = c/2L, where its length L is greater than 1/2 wavelengths. Often such line source consists of a vertical array of a large number of identical drivers on a narrow baffle. In other cases it might be a ribbon like, narrow and long conductor in a magnetic field, or a narrow and tall electrostatic source. Specifically, I am referring to lines that are at least 1.5 m (5ft) long.

Under free-field conditions such lines will have a wide and fairly uniform horizontal radiation pattern The vertical polar response will be very irregular and highly distance dependent, because of the finite length of the source [1]. In a room, though, the images of the source in floor and ceiling will make it appear as infinitely long, the more so, the less the gaps between the ends of the source and the reflecting floor and ceiling surfaces. Consequently, the line launches a cylindrical wave and illuminates the room very uniformly. The acoustics of the room, therefore, are of similar importance as for an omnidirectional point source. At sufficient distance the direct SPL falls off with the square root of distance, which improves the direct-to-reverberant sound ratio over that of a point source.

It surprises me that in a reverberant environment, such as a typical living room, these radiators give little indication of poor vertical polar behavior, even when the line does not fully extend to floor and ceiling. Clearly, the reverberant field in the room fills in any perceptual notches in the polar response. Standing close to the line and moving with one's ears up and down, the acoustic image does not change and follows the ear over the active length of the line, almost to its ends. Imaging is very precise, when standing or seated in the near-field of the line, which is closer than the typical listening distance given by the apex of an equilateral triangle. At greater distances the images grow in height. This can be impressive on big orchestral pieces, as if looking through a large window onto the sound stage. Small acoustic sources, like a vocalist or a cello, though, become overblown in size. Line source speakers are at their best when listened to close-up like giant headphones. This preserves proper size imaging and gives the illusion of a large sound stage.

Vertical height of the sound stage adds to its realism. I find small 2-way speakers very unsatisfactory in this respect, even when they are correctly positioned at ear level height. Line sources provide this height, as do single tweeter symmetric driver layouts like LM-UM-T-UM-LM. In the latter case separate frequency ranges are assigned to each symmetrical set of drivers LM-LM and UM-UM, such that any free-space vertical lobing is minimized. This type of source suffers considerably less from the image size distortion of a uniform line.

An added advantage of tall sources is their relatively large radiating surface area, which means small excursions and, therefore, progressively lower non-linear distortion for a given maximum sound level. The low distortion aspect is even more important, than sound stage height, wide angle horizontal dispersion and uniform power response. Low distortion means increased dynamics and clarity, and the ability to play back at near live levels without listener strain. It brings the naturally occurring distortion mechanisms of the ear into play, which are necessary elements for creating an illusion of reality.
Sensitivity can be high. A line with 25 identical drivers connected in series-parallel to obtain the same combined impedance as that of a single driver, will have 14 dB higher SPL for the same voltage applied.

Stored energy is not necessarily low because of the many cabinet and driver chassis cavity.

albertporter

Owner
I am envious, please don't tell me you met Bill Evans too.

albertporter

Owner
Zaikes, if your feeling adventurous, the earliest album by Lee Morgan, "Lee Morgan Indeed!," is a sleeper that's also been recently reissued.

Same heavy vinyl and deep black background during play, but the really cool part about this earlier LP is the piano work by Horace Silver, who I love. Horace shines brightest early in the album with "Roccus," the first cut on the LP.

The best work by Morgan is "Gaza Strip" (cut two, side two) in my opinion.

Although this album is rated 3 stars and the later "Candy," commands 5, it still merits consideration, especially if you buy "Candy" and still have a sweet tooth for more Lee Morgan.

albertporter

Owner
Zaikes, I bought my LP off Ebay too, perhaps there were two Illinois Jacquet for sale there. I have little fear of this title being a disappointment, I have other LP's of him.

If I were to suggest a jazz title for you, the one that seems to get played at every one of our recent listening sessions is Lee Morgan, "Candy."

Mine is a Classic Records, Blue Note reissue on heavy vinyl. Absolutely wonderful music and a dead quite pressing. I think you would be impressed with the way the LP was engineered, especially the horns,

albertporter

Owner
Yea, an original from the 1950's and supposed to be in VG+ condition. If the music is as good as you say, I owe you a recommendation.

albertporter

Owner
Well Zaikes, lets hope your right about the Illinois Jacquet album. I just purchased a copy of "Swings the Thing." Should have it in about a week.

albertporter

Owner
Zaikes, your comment.

(The advice of mine I was referring to was using identical amps for all four speaker inputs as opposed to different kinds for bass and treble. Given the mid-band crossover point, I strongly suspected this would be fundamental to getting a totally integrated sound before dropping more bux on a custom-re engineered crossover...)

Yea, I mentioned that in my write up of the Dali Megaline as a "must" suggestion from the folks in Denmark too. I believed what they said and followed their advice, beginning with four channels of Dynaco to get the system rolling.

Eventually the VTL 750 were required to get the woofers moving enough to achieve break in. Still it took nearly 800 hours, I can't imagine how long it would have been with lower power and no sweep tones to push the limit of the drivers.

I guess my resistance to buying a 20K amp to run a single ribbon was as much to blame as any for avoiding the advice of Dali and Zaikes :^).

In the end it became apparent that absolute matching was critical to making the Dali Megaline work properly and once the VTL 750 established itself as THE only contender for bass response, the rest was simply a personal problem, coming to terms with 750 watts for a ribbon, not to mention the cost and size.

I think the only thing that compares to evolving a high end system is remodeling a home. I find the best way to get an accurate quote for remodeling is:

(1) Get three contractors to completely evaluate your site and give an accurate written quote.

(2) Same vendors must put in writing EXACTLY how long the job will require.

(3) Discuss terms and vendors with your family and come to consensus.

Then go with lowest quote.

In the end, combining all three contractors time and money estimates will come very close to completion date and price.

albertporter

Owner
That is indeed some interesting stuff Eldartford. Wish I could have seen one of those big computers with all the tubes. You didn't save any did you ? Might be worth big bucks now.

Wonder what they used? Octal based like 5692 ?

albertporter

Owner
Zaikes

Pathetic, but fairly cool. But pathetic. I did score an Illinois Jacquet on Verve.
I think I have that album. It it the one with his likeness as a drawing on the cover?

As for tubes, if you said I should match all those 6350's for VTL input stage, that was good advice indeed.

I have not had the courage to try the Telefunkens again but the black plate RCA's are kicking butt. I found the Telefunken and RCA numbers on the scroll sheet of my Hickok 752 A and all tests are identical. Leads me to believe Tom was correct that they are a sub.

Speaking of tubes, I wish my order for Wing C 6550's would arrive. They are constantly on back order and I want to match the bass amps with HF amps before I get too many hours accumulated.

albertporter

Owner
Right Eldartford, I know the idea is old, Audio Research is a recent product in relationship to your 1955 experience.

Tubes were used for many things since they are such a mature technology. I have seen images where they were used in early computers, so I would not be surprised if there were tube crossovers prior to your experience. In the end it doesn’t matter much, as long as the design provides the sound I'm seeking.

In answer to your question about 12 volt tubes, the power supply is easier to regulate (says the guy that built it) and the 12 volt tubes are equal or better than 6 volt and can be bought for pennies on the dollar.

6 volt tubes are what everyone else is chasing, putting pressure on NOS and making the resale value high.

albertporter

Owner
Sorry Bruce I have not had a chance to hear the NuForce.

I have heard the Manley your considering and consider that a good option. I like the Manley sound, which is no surprise as Manley and VTL were originally built in the same factory, sharing similar voicing.

I don't know your budget but the VTL 450 is a very powerful amp and has a lot of the characteristics of the 750 at a much lower price. I see them at Audiogon for about $4500.00 (+). Perhaps an option if your looking for big power and have the budget.

As for my tube crossover, that is not really a new idea. Audio Research had one many years ago that was designed for the Magneplanar and Marchand had one or more tube versions as well.

I did go a bit crazy with my version, using ultra high quality caps, oversize outboard power supply and all 12 volt tubes, and I am completely satisfied with the results.

albertporter

Owner
Bruce, I had Sound-Labs before the Dali, a tough act to follow as they are seamlessly integrated from top to bottom, with very low distortion.

I choose the Megaline after seriously considering about eight other brands. The Dali won because of the single crossover point with ribbons, attributes that gave them the speed and integration advantages of electrostatics.

During all the years I owned Sound-Labs, I ran them with Viva SET's, Tube Research GT400, Wolcott Presence 220, VTL 750, Air Tight ATM3, Atma-Sphere MA2, Counterpoint SA4, McCormack Anniversary mono blocks and many other amps.

When my Megalines arrived I had the VTL's, Atma-Sphere M-60, Atma-Sphere Novacron, Viva and Wolcott Presence. Later, I acquired two pair of Air Tight ATM 3 and two pair of VTL 750's and tried these along with various combinations of all the other amps I had.

These were auditioned with the Dali factory crossover and later, the custom tube crossover I had built. The VTL 750 is the absolute champ for bass control, slam, dynamics and power and the only tube amp I tried that could exercise complete control over each Megaline cabinet (12 woofers per cabinet).

There may be other amps other than VTL 750 that work on the ribbons, but ultimately matching all four amps EXACTLY (even to down to the transconductance of the input tubes) wound up being more important than strengths that shined but did not match.

My final decision for four VTL 750's was an evolution of gains and losses, obtained by testing and listening, tenacity and a bit of luck. I am completely happy and considering the Megaline is 90 DB efficient, the VTL 750's are running class A most listening sessions. A benefit I had not anticipated until I had this much excess power.

albertporter

Owner
Eldartford, yes, the speakers are separate cabinets that lock together. I covered that in my review at Positive Feedback a year ago.

As for a real bargain and great performance in a line source, GR Research (here in Texas) offered a speaker named the Alpha LS that could be bought for 5K and was about 92 DB efficient.

Alpha LS

The designer, Danny Ritchie, is working on a new model with much improved BG ribbons and 12 woofers per cabinet. Retail price projected at only 6K.

Danny promised to bring a pair by for me to listen to.

albertporter

Owner
Bruce30, perhaps the phrase should be "everything bigger in Denmark," that's where the Dali's are made :^).

I don't know how many Megalines there are in Denmark versus the USA, but it's a pretty safe bet they expected to sell more here than in Europe.

As for size, that's a relative thing. I previously owned Sound-Lab Ultimates and the Dali looks absolutely small by comparison.

albertporter

Owner
Jukes, funny you mention that. I've dreamed of placing a screen there many times.

I have a few obstacles though. My ceiling vaults from 8 feet to 12.5 feet, so any screen would have to be mounted above (in the attic) where it can be leveled.

Obstacle two, the entire center section of my listening room is skylights. An area approximately 18 feet by 8 feet in the ceiling where it vaults up to 17 feet compromised of roughly 144 square feet of Plexiglas domes.

It provides incredibly beautiful light year round, filtered by our tall trees, but In the summertime we have strong daylight until 8:45 PM, making TV projection near impossible until late at night.

I thought of motorized skylight shades to make it work, but the last quote I got was for more than 6K. (Ouch !)

I will likely have to stick with regular HD Sony unless a very bright projector appears on the market or simpler control of the skylights.

albertporter

Owner
Come on Ray, saving a seat for you.

I have red and white wine, single malt scotch and lots of import beer (did I miss anything?). Oh yea, lots of music too, received about 50 LP's in the last 6 weeks and haven't had time to listen to all of them yet.

Want to help me with all this new music ? :^).

albertporter

Owner
Your welcome Ray. Wish you could come listen with me, maybe a trip will bring you to this part of the world.

albertporter

Owner
Hello Nate, I'm also thinking about adding a view through the access door in my photo studio. You've seen it but I think everyone else would be amused at the mass of cables and how I dressed them.

albertporter

Owner
System edited: Two new images of Dali Megaline added

albertporter

Owner
Eragot, I've been drinking Macallan cask strength for several years and wonder if you noticed changes over time. There have been at least three versions and at least that many label changes.

The first version and current one are about equal, the one that was available a couple of years ago with mostly black label was my favorite. As it became more impossible to find I went to all the local specialty stores and bought what few bottles remained.

Still, the current batch kicks most of the other brands off the shelf, so I'm grateful they still produce it.

As for yummy to describe taste, pay no attention to Nate. He loves to mess with everyone, including me. I've been around him in person several times, he's having fun.

albertporter

Owner
Greg, I promise to play only low fi music if you'll visit, taking the pressure off.

Seriously, if travel ever brings you through the Dallas, Ft. Worth area airport, I could come get you, have you meet the gang and listen to some music. I need only enough advance notice to be sure I'm not out of town for a photo shoot (my real job).

albertporter

Owner
Eragot,

Now I have two incentives to travel to Dallas. A long time friend lives there with two little girls I have to meet. Reason two is that I need to meet you guys.

Come on then, we have an entire bar covered with single malt scotch and will save a little cask strength for you.

Gregadd and Nate (Nrchy) will sync their schedules to join us, right?

albertporter

Owner
Mary, I loaned most of my spares to my buddy Jadem6 (James MacRae). When he ships them back, you can take whatever you need for a trial run.

You did miss some great music, I re tubed the VTL 750's that powers the Dali ribbons and the sound was wonderful, even with just a few hours burn in. Prompted me to play a wide variety of tunes. Hope to see you next week.

albertporter

Owner
Ray, I understand. The first time I heard the Museaus I was blown away by it's musicality and beauty, especially considering how reasonably priced it is.

Nate, come for music tonight and I will give you the tastiest malt of all.

Macallan "cask strength" Single malt Scotch.

albertporter

Owner
System edited: Rewrote text description of system to clarify recent changes.

albertporter

Owner
System edited: Updated photographs and description of amplifiers, phono cartridge and Purist cables to match current system.

albertporter

Owner
Mitch,

Yes, the 6.5" drivers deliver bass, and plenty of it. If I had fewer that might not be the case, but the Dali uses 24 of them.

As for amp matching, when I used AirTight ATM3 and VTL together (with original Dali crossover), I used the AirTight volume control on the front panels to match gain. Now that I have four Identical VTL's, gains are pretty much identical.

You may have missed my discussion of crossovers.

The tube crossover I had designed has variable bass EQ, plus a high transconductance pentode output stage, giving me the ability to adjust bass amplitude.

The tube crossover sounds so much better than the original, plus it allows me to match gain and bass EQ (equal, or more or less than Dali original).

So for tests with VTL and AirTight and AirTight and AirTight and all VTL (and other amps I tried), I could adjust bass EQ and bass volume, relative to high frequencies, matching for personality, room acoustics and efficiency differences of each power amp.

It's a vital feature, something so important, I could not be satisfied without it.

As for Dali working in the space you outlined, they may not be big enough. That's a lot of cubic feet ! I would hate to recommend them and have you disappointed. I will say that in my smaller room they will pound the crap out of you if you ask them to. I do have a lot of power on them and no doubt that helps.

I don't think it's impossible for Dali to work in the space you describe, but I would not try it without the tube crossover I had built. I can give you the guys name if you want to speak to him. There is a photo of it above in my equipment list and I am working on a review at PFO that will have images of the crossovers interior and circuits.

As for Genesis, I have only heard them at shows, certainly not where I could make any real determination, especially considering the difference in space provided at shows and your absolutely huge space.

I will say that at $50K the Genesis are a steal. If memory serves me correctly they were $150K not too many years ago.

albertporter

Owner
Judit, it's included in the next to the last photo posted at the top of this page, image is marked "View including new HDTV."

Below the Sony WEGA is my Vandersteen dialogue speaker. Granted it looks small in the photo but I promise that's what the black "dot" is.

My wide camera lens combined with fairly large space makes things look very small at that distance. For perspective, that Sony is about 5 feet wide, although it looks small beside the Dali Megalines and from that distance.

albertporter

Owner
Ray, regarding your question

Being a photographer, maybe you can help me. I would like to get a poster made of an album cover(Sade;Stronger than Pride) the cover is in mint condition, any idea how i can get this done? Thank you,Ray

Easiest way would be to scan the cover and have it printed out at Kinko's or similar. Not sure the resolution used for printing the album cover will stand up to that kind of enlargement. There are programs that interpolate missing data and/or removes the printing screen, improving the ability to enlarge.

One such program is Genuine Fractals but I have not experimented with it enough to know if it would work in this situation.

Also unsure about copyright stuff. Kinko's got sued a few years ago for copying material and allowing it to be used and they’ve been a lot more restrictive ever since. Make a few calls and get advice from scan and output places and go from there.

albertporter

Owner
Thank you Mary, your flattering comments are what every music lover longs for.

Regarding
hopefully you all will still welcome me after a few weeks! I gotta tell you that I have yearned to listen to your system this week so I am looking forward to returning next week.

I think the pressure is on us, were a group of ragged guys that must remember to behave so you can "tolerate" us. Sometimes we get a little crazy like most guys do when they’ve known each a long time.

Must say, I have never met a woman with more willingness to make the music right. I hope I can help in some way, you have already helped me by listening with us and sharing your excitement.

albertporter

Owner
Henry HK, easy to do.

I come out of my DVD players digital out (RCA connector) and feed the digital input of my processor. The processor can be selected to DTS, 7.1, 5.1 etc.

The processor has ANALOG outputs as RCA connectors and marked as front, side, rear etc.

I come out of the ones marked front and feed a unused input on my Aesthetix Callisto. Put the Callisto (or whatever you have) at a PRESET level that's easy to remember (I use 12:00 O'clock), then adjust the outputs of your processors volume to match each speaker in the system. In other words, follow the normal procedures to match volume according to set up instructions.

Then, each time you play a movie or watch a music video, simply set the preamp volume to the EXACT same level as last time and use the remote control of the HT processor to control all volume.

If you wish to listen in stereo, the analog outputs of the DVD player may be fed into ANOTHER set of unused inputs and selecting those gives you stereo and no need to crank up the processor or other speakers.

Either way it works fine. Like all HT stuff, each person must decide how far to go. Some are happy with HT in a box and some want 20K speakers on every channel. Personally I'm a two channel guy, so flipping on some B&W's or Vandys for effects, added to my excellent fronts, is good enough for me.

albertporter

Owner
System edited: One of my (digital) studio shots of the new Koetsu Jade Platinum Signature cartridge, recently arrived as the replacement for my Koetsu Rosewood Platinum Signature

albertporter

Owner
Ray,

Thanks for the birthday wishes. As for the tent, you know your welcome anytime, just let me know when your in town and we'll grab dinner and spin some tunes. Maybe Mary will join us, she is a VERY positive spirit and was more excited about the equipment and sound than her husband.

What a refreshing reversal !

albertporter

Owner
Henryhk,

Sorry I took so long to respond to your thread. I missed it at first, it has been really crazy the last few days.

To watch regular TV, we just listen through the speakers in the HD Sony. When it's movie time the stand the Sony sits on has wheels (I installed). The Grand WEGA rolls between the Dali Megalines and I select the input from Dolby converter to run into the Callisto and the front channels come through just like my stereo software.

There is a Vandersteen dialogue speaker on the shelf below the Grand WEGA (automatically follows the TV) and the Surround amps power the Vandy dialogue and B&W 7NT (in wall) rear channels.

It's easy to get up and running and if I'm really lazy, I can just listen to the DVD or DSS in stereo through the Dali Megalines.

If you ever travel this way your welcome to see and hear how it works. I think it's amazingly good and VERY low hassle factor.

albertporter

Owner
Mary,

I really enjoyed your company and input on my system. I hope you will come as often as your schedule permits, I know being a rep for a biotechnology research company is a high pressure job.

If you can make it next week, I have a completely different lineup of music in cue and a few thousand additional titles before any danger of listening to the same tune twice :^).

I was not kidding about the cable. In spite of the rather wonderful sound the new Purist 20th Anniversary had only 24 hours on it and it requires from 300 to 500 to max out. I promise you there is even more to come in the next couple of months, hope you become a regular, plus it's wonderful to have a beautiful female audiophile to balance against all the males that typically show up.

Maybe Jane will be here next time. She is a Maggie fan and while not as knowledgeable as you, she is a avid music lover.

albertporter

Owner
Zaikes

Re:
Interesting - I hadn't realized that VTL has now discontinued the previous generation Reference amps, the MB-750 and MB-1250 (plus, it seems, the triode-only MB-250 Signature). I remember talking to Bea around the time the Seigfried first came out; I assumed it was to replace the older amp, but she said the traditional-style Ref models would continue and that they didn't sound entirely the same, and that some people preferred the sound of the old series, some the new model.


That was the word from Luke Manley when I ask them to build me a new pair 750's. So I assume he means just what he said, no more available.

I don't know about your explanation of the auto bias circuitry and can only go by description of my West Coast friends who have experienced both versions.

I do love my VTL 750's and with the latest Purist cable and all tube power supply I have dynamics from hell, (In a heavenly way :^).

By the way, a friend who is a tube maniac says Telefunken manufactured a tube (completely different number) that is electrically a replacement for the RCA and Sylvania 6350. Come to find out, the 6350 is from the late 1950's and designed to operate the very earliest computers.

I have request to vendors in Germany and Hong Kong and will let you know what I find out. More important, I'll let you know if I find any and if they outperform the gray and/or black plate RCA's 6350 I just bought.

albertporter

Owner
Slappy,
Re: Mustangtuning.com

I need tires for my son's Mach 1 and your favorite site does not list any. Do you know of a site that gives HONEST answers about best tires for Mustangs?

In the old days I trusted and bought from Tire Rack, but lately all the reviews seem to be from employees and read like they have overstock to dump or promote a line with better mark up.

albertporter

Owner
Herer, I think the VTL 750 can still be ordered through dealers but the factory is pushing hard for everyone to move on to the new series.

A good friend and reviewer who also owns VTL 750's, claims the new amps are more analytical and that the auto bias circuitry harms the tonal balance. I have not made the comparison so I can only parrot back what I've been told.

Surprisingly, four VTL 750's are no more heat than one pair of VTL's and one pair of Air Tight ATM-3, and they are less heat than one pair of big Atma-Sphere MA2 (with 40 output tubes).

As for outlets, search ads here at front page of Audiogon (Porter Ports).

Also do a search (same name) in the forums where several members have commented.

Guess I'm most proud that a short while back, the Chicago Audio Society (sorry if I'm calling their name incorrectly) did a shoot out with about a dozen different outlets and mine was the "winner." The president of the society called me, ordered a bunch and others have called and ordered since.

albertporter

Owner
Thank you Ray, lets make plans to meet each other next year and at least have dinner one night. This year a bunch of us walked over to the Mexican food place across from the hotel and filled a huge long table.

We had people from Maxxhorn, GR Research, Dodd Audio, Ralph from Atma-Sphere, Jim RIvers from FM Tuner Info and several others.

We had a blast, wish you had been there to join in.

albertporter

Owner
Hello Slappy, VERY happy to see you.

The Megalines are working great, now crank up that Mustang and come visit me for some tunes (to verify I'm telling the truth) and I'll buy all the beer you can drink.

My 19 year old son and you can talk Mustangs and girl trouble, maybe you can give him a few pointers.

albertporter

Owner
Kuzibri, the 6550 I prefer is the SED Wing C built in St. Petersburg, Russia. Likely the Genelex or other NOS is preferable but stock and prices are impossible (especially for Genelex).

The SED Wing C was originally called Svetlana. I don't know the story but somehow New Sensor now owns the name and the tubes trademarked Svetlana are now actually from the Reflector plant and (I imagine) pretty much the same as Electro Harmonix and Sovtek, the other two tubes from New Sensor (and same factory).

I have yet to install the new SED Wing C in my second VTL 750. I have new wire and want to hear the system exactly as it was before the new cable before changing something else.

albertporter

Owner
System edited: Added image of Purist 20th Anniversary Aqueous (last piece of equipment in my system list for those who want to view).

albertporter

Owner
System edited: Image added of the custom tube crossover built for Dali Magaline.

albertporter

Owner
Dave,

The Megalines are 90 inches (7.5 feet) making them taller than your project, so I don't think your request is out of the question.

The Megalines can be moved if their spike feet are sitting on low friction floor protectors, such as Sound Anchor Cone Coasters.

With the help of Cone Coasters I could even move my Sound-Labs by myself and they are larger, heavier and more fragile.

albertporter

Owner
Zaikes, Andy answered questions about my existing tubes but did not have any 6350 RCA's to sell me.

I bought mine from SND and got all he had except one (non match) single.

I also have a request in to my German supplier to see if he has any. He is also checking for 6922 and 12AT7's Telefunken and Siemens.

I found four additional 6350 on Ebay branded with the modern RCA logo and with gray plates. I bought these too and will compare all of them, and determine which are the best.

albertporter

Owner
Zaikes, I just bought 8 "hens teeth." Four matched pairs of RCA 6350's.

On my present tubes, speaking with Andy at Vintage, our best guess is my black plate 6350's are USA Sylvania. By comparison, new old stock, late 1950's RCA's are gray plate with completely different getter design.

The newer demo pair of VTL 750's I just purchased had been recently re tubed by the retailer that had them on his floor. Unfortunately the output tubes chosen were Svetlana 6550 and input tubes were Chinese 12 AT7.

You are no doubt aware this particular Svetlana is not the original version that earned it's reputation before 2002, but rather a re branded Sovtek now sold by New Sensor Co. So, I have two vendors quoting me for burned and matched Wing C (real Svetlana) and with the NOS octagon logo RCA's I have coming, I should be set.

albertporter

Owner
Kuzibri, I should've been clearer on the subject of small signal tubes for the VTL 750.

There are two 6350 and a single 12AT7 per amplifier, in addition to the twelve 6550 outputs.

The 6350 supplied by VTL looks like an RCA (in my amps) and as already mentioned, I like the Wing C 6550 VTL has selected as original equipment.

Ditto on the 6350.

That leaves one tube to swap, the 12AT7. For the record, that's the least tube swapping I've ever done on a tube based audio product.

albertporter

Owner
Kuzibri, My original set of VTL 750's have about 1100 hours on them and all the tubes still test good. VTL runs their tubes very conservatively and projects the outputs (6550 Wing C) at 3000 hours before requiring replacement.

The input tubes are critical to sound and fortunately the single 12AT7 has dozens of NOS versions available to tweak the sound.

After much testing I seem to be stuck on the Telefunken 12AT7. Not surprising as I have a particular fondness for them in almost every version.

albertporter

Owner
Kelly, I think the 1520 is an extraordinary machine and handles tape better than machines costing ten times as much. It's only weakness is that it's 1980's transistor technology, limiting "ultimate" playback and record capability.

Being the tube head that I am, I'm replacing the Technics with a completely restored Ampex 351. Both the Ampex and Technics are primarily for playback of master dupes and prerecorded factory tapes, although I could go for some tube mikes and do music on location without much encouragement.

The Ampex is being built now, completion date not yet carved in stone. I could report what differences there are in some weeks from now, assuming my rebuilt machine arrives by then.

For what it's worth, I plan on keeping the Technics after receiving the Ampex until I see how reliable the old rebuilt Ampex does.

1520 Technics is balanced output, easy to use and has the lowest wow and flutter specs of just about any machine ever made, due to it's closed loop capstan design. I prefer it to Revox and Teac, but that's just one mans opinion.

albertporter

Owner
Firecracker_77, sorry I did not respond to you earlier. Thank you for the kind words about my listening room.

I have a very understanding wife, she even helped with choosing the colors of the acoustic cloth on the walls and ceiling.

Truth is, I think she was just excited to see all those RPG and fiberglass treatments covered up.

albertporter

Owner
If you guys are coming again I need to hook up the AirTights. The VTL is very upset from new Infini caps, new resistors and a rough ride here.

Nate, You can't be upset with it "pouring" equipment, especially when its new cables that make your system better :^). My problem is multiple items that need breaking in, some of which have not existed until now.

I would be excited for you guys (and Barb) to come for another listening fest. Lets talk schedule.

albertporter

Owner
Update. Second pair of VTL Ref 750's arrived Friday and are breaking in. I'm holding on to my AirTight ATM-3 until enough listening time has passed for a definitive decision.

My Koetsu Jade Platinum is supposed to ship next week and Purist Audio Design has an all new line of ultra high end interconnect and speaker cables (not yet announced to the public) that should be ready for my system on Oct 13th.

When it rains it pours, too much arriving at one time.

albertporter

Owner
Zaikes,

There are likely are as many stories about the source of this material as there are tapes available.

In the case of my Faron Young tape, the lady offering this was his nurse and after his death the tapes fell into her hands. These were part of his personal studio material. The masters are probably still at the record company that pressed his vinyl. What I have are back up, in case the master was lost or damaged.

My copy is unedited, with talking during a couple of the cuts. There is even a song where everyone stops due to Faron messing up the words of a song and he cusses the producer for telling him the tape is still rolling.

For me it makes this copy more valuable than the master. Probably equal in quality, but "warts and all."

The other titles I mention are from people who are in the mastering business and friends of mine. Their motive is for enjoyment, not profit and they know I would never try to benefit commercially from the artists work.

In the case of the "Little Richard" tapes I bought, the owner was in Europe and the masters had been used to press vinyl for distribution over there. The copy I got was marked Revox, meaning it's a copy made within the studio. Little Richard was originally recorded on Ampex (USA) gear and probably the people mastering in Europe got a copy of a copy for pressing there.

My copy, made on a Revox was too far removed from the master to be anything more than a way to hear Little Richard's songs I had not heard before.

albertporter

Owner
Zaikes, regarding "Hello Walls."

Yea, I wish I had that song on my master safety. Wonder if it would drive the Air Tights even closer to the walls ? :^).

When I bought this tape, neither the seller nor I knew exactly what it was. There were originally four offered at Ebay, I was high bidder on just this copy.

Since then, many 10.5" tapes have been advertised as masters. I won a few that were promptly disposed of in my garbage can.

This is carefully guarded material, making most of what's available dubious quality. I'm still working on a Pink Floyd and Art Garfunkel but have no guarantee what level it will be.

albertporter

Owner
Lug Pat,

Thank you too !

I wish you could hear the new tube crossover, it's amazing how much it improved the sound. The textures in the midrange are double what you experienced when you and other Audiogon members were here.

That would be enough to justify the time and expense of the project but adding dynamics and contrast to the point of pushing the Air Tight to the limit is a perfect example of how much information is pumping out.

I have dynamics, bass and push greater than anything I have ever experienced without being in front of live musicians.

Louis's system is coming along. I'm sure it will be me that photographs it as Louis is still a film guy. Digital is definitely the way to go for Audiogon files, saving scanning and other steps.

albertporter

Owner
Phillip (Holmes that moves around :^).

Thank you one million times for the absolutely awesome, creative and flattering post on my system thread. Bless you for saying such nice things !!

I have worked so hard to get this right and think I am very close to where I want to be.

albertporter

Owner
Well, this was a wonderful night. In spite of the worst that mother nature can dish out, Jim Aud and family arrived in Dallas safely and secured a hotel just ten minutes from me. We listened until a few minutes ago (nearly 1:00 in the AM) and the system was kicking butt.

Nate, I am working on Louis's system. It has problems as do all high end systems but we are closing the gap on it. The Kharmas are a speaker that I could live with every day, same as Sound-Lab and my Dali's.

albertporter

Owner
Nate, is that Louis's system or mine that might not sound perfect but looks good :^) ?

albertporter

Owner
Good advice Zaikes,

Fortunately I live in Dallas, where most of Louisiana and Houston have recently moved to avoid Rita :^). We tried to eat out tonight and every decent quality place was packed.

Guess they wanted a good meal and some drinks for fortify them before the big blow.

By the way, I spent 13 hours Saturday and 3 hours this evening working on Louis's system (Audiogon member and part of my group).

He has Kharma Exquisite 1De, Walker Turntable with RSP Koetsu and all Aesthetix front end. He recently constructed a dedicated listening room and it's been hell getting everything squared away.

It is nice having another super speaker as a reference, especially with all the other parts of the system being near identical.

albertporter

Owner
Albert, I was listening to some bass-heavy, early-70's vintage rock live-in-studio demos on CD tonight, and was reminded how, back when I originally installed the KT88EH's, my very first listening impression was of how much more authoritative a bottom-end those tubes had compared with the 6550C's. There does seem to be some sentiment in the forum threads I researched to support the notion that the EH betters the SED in this area, and that could help explain why VTL seems to have more reservations about the KT88's bass than I do.

Like I stated before, wish it was easier to do a test. Once the second pair of VTL 750's arrive, I would need to re tube all four amps to do an exact test.

Once I hear what the system sounds like with all 6550 Wing C, it will be clearer what direction to take.

I had a local audiophile here Tuesday night that has emailed me twice a day since his visit. He was absolutely freaked out by the tonal color, distortion free sound pressure levels and (most of all) the dynamics and contrast.

The master tapes I have were what really blew him away although the Walker is not far behind. Certainly the two best sources I have ever heard.

albertporter

Owner
Understood, thank you for replying.

albertporter

Owner
Zaikes,

I appreciate the info on tube ratings you discovered at Vacuum Tube Valley. I had that data at one time but could not find where I stored it on my computer.

Like you, I am curious as to what amplifier (and at what rated power) as well as associated equipment was used to make the determination. As you pointed out in a earlier thread, you and I seem to differ on some tube choices even though we chose almost identical amps.

Regarding:
It's kind of noteworthy that they didn't prefer the newer Svet 6550C to the previous version, which isn't the received wisdom I've seen elsewhere.

Actually, VTL tells me the "true" Svetlana (St Petersburg plant) tubes are preferable to the newer Reflector tubes by Sovtek which are now branded with the "Svetlana" logo.

You are probably aware that the original Svetlana-St. Petersburg plant was forced to re brand the original Svetlana 6550 with the name Wing C. My VTL has the original Svetlana, so exact replacement would now be called Winged C, NOT Svetlana.

A bit confusing, but Bea claims the original is still the best 6550 and the KT88 Wing C is the best "overall" tonal balance with some loss of bass compared to 6550.

This name change game has been a mess, it's too bad I can't afford NOS Gold Lion Genelex, I agree with VT Valley ratings that it's still the best KT 88 ever made.

albertporter

Owner
What does that have to do with Audiofest, Eldartford?

albertporter

Owner
Pat,

I spoke to Koetsu on Friday to be sure my check arrived.

Immediately after AudioFest, Ronnie must travel to Japan for a meeting with Koetsu. So instead of faxing my order and rush shipping with hopes of getting it in my hands before Denver, I will wait and have my Jade carried back by hand.

Ronnie promised to pick out the best sample and return with it. Probably best sample refers to the beauty of the Jade. I think it's difficult to tell two Koetsu's apart (assuming exact same model) as their quality control is so tight.

So with that delay, I will probably not have it until the week of the 10th or 17th and may have the second pair of VTL 750's and possibly, the new cables from Purist Audio before the cartridge even gets here.

Thank you for the compliments on my system. I hardly know how to respond to your extremely kind words. I will NEVER forget the week that you, Nate, Cello, Vetterone and I spent listening to great music together. Louis, John, Dennis and others are still commenting about how courteous and interested all of you were.

albertporter

Owner
I have it on good authority that the Denver AudioFest will sponsor an Analog Forum on at least two occasions during this great audiophile meeting.

Among the panel members sitting in are:

Chad Kassem of Acoustic Sounds, Garth Leerer of Musical Surroundings and Roy Gregory of HiFi+.

Odd that i mentioned liking Roy Gregory's style a few days ago on this very thread. I hope to have the pleasure of meeting him.

This show is shaping up to be as important as CES in many ways. Any Audiogon members that can make it should do so.

albertporter

Owner
Alex, now you have my curiosity aroused, how much did you find on this subject?

Or short answer, what is the general consensus of strength versus weakness between the Svetlana 6550 and (whatever) is supposed to be the cool KT88?

I ask because I have owned my 750's for more than a year now, first powering the Sound-Lab Ultimate ones and now the Dali's.

Frankly I find them near flawless. Huge dynamics, contrasty as can be and bass from hell. This all coming from a VERY black background, where the music flows with intense power.

I will grant you the extreme high frequencies are not quite as pristine as a perfectly designed, hand wired EL34 amp fitted with NOS Mullard EL34 XF1 or XF2, but now were talking about having it all, and so far I know of nothing in audio that gives you 100%.

What I’m afraid of is moving to the KT88 and wind up with compromised bass compared to the 6550, and compromised highs compared to the EL34.

albertporter

Owner
Alex, if you do that test I would be eager to hear your conclusions.

It's a big deal for me to accumulate that many tubes, even with your generous offer. It will be a long time before I get to that part of my testing. The new tube crossover is still improving every week and I don't want to confuse results.

When the second VTL arrives I will be able to tell better what (if any) I'm giving up in the highs to go from Mullard EL 34 to Svetlana (Wing C) 6550. Could be I will prefer the 6550 and change my mind after a week or two when the "new" wears off.

That's exactly why I am so slow to make comments about my tests. I am a true believer in slow and steady progress and long term listening.

albertporter

Owner
Alex, I sincerely appreciate your offer. You, Nate and Bea all seem to think I should at least consider switching over to KT88's.

No doubt I will eventually give it a try.

Bea (VTL) does state that the bass is superior with the 6550 and last night may have been the best bass I've ever heard. My system was kicking the sh*t out of us !

The good news about the test ? With the loan of your dozen KT88's, I only need another 36 to start up the system :-O.

Wonder if I can offset the power usage by killing all the room lighting and work via tube glow?

The second pair of VTL's will not have the adjustable feedback control. There are only three or four pair of those, but Luke did offer to match resistor load with my favorite setting from the adjustable pair.

Yes, the custom crossover I had built works at exactly the same frequencies as the original Dali piece. The exact numbers are in my review at Positive Feedback but I think about 1100 HZ is correct.

albertporter

Owner
Come on Nate, I'm ready !

Maybe we can get Pat Malone, Steve Dobbins and Larry Howkins to come again like last time. I promise to take all you guys back to that great "home style" restaurant (the one with great food and all you can eat).

All of us pigged out but I was amazed that Pat could still go for Peach Cobbler and Blue Bell ice cream after all that salad, steak, veggies and potato's :^).

albertporter

Owner
Alex, I hadn’t thought about output tubes as the second VTL has not yet arrived.

The KT88 interests me, particularly in light of comments by you and Bea at VTL. The KT88 promises to be a superior full range choice, giving up a bit to the 6550 in bass performance.

Might be really cool would to run 6550 Wing C (original Svetlana) in the bass amp where this tube really shines, and the best KT88 for the ribbons.

Since my new custom tube crossover has both gain and EQ controls, I could easily balance the two amps and maybe create the best of both worlds.

Thank you for the idea.

albertporter

Owner
Thanks Jafox, we had wonderful sound tonight.

I don't know if any of you read the review at HiFi+ on the Koetsu Jade. A very fine magazine with concise layout and great images. Anyway, after living with my Koetsu Rosewood Platinum Signature for so long, it's time to take it up another notch. I ordered the Koetsu Jade Platinum Signature and expect it within two weeks.

I expect an unpleasant break in process, as was the case with the Rosewood, but think this will be the icing on the cake for the system once it settles in.

albertporter

Owner
I have negotiated a deal for another pair of VTL 750 amps. Should be ready in less than two weeks.

I borrowed a pair of Air Tight ATM-3 from a friend (Louis) in my audio group who had them upgraded by Tom Tutay and subsequently shipped to me as he (Louis) was on vacation in Spain.

I selected a matched set of Mullard Xf2 EL34's for the outputs, substituted 12 BH7 in place of original 12U7, and matched Telefunken 12 AT7 in place of the original 12 AX7.

These changes mirrored the glass in my Air Tight ATM-3 after an incredible amount of tube rolling.

The plan was to sell the VTL 750 powering the bass, gain floor space and free up some cash as another pair of Air Tights would be less money. Unfortunately the test proved the horsepower of the VTL to be undeniable.

Dali recommended matched amps, but the VTL 750 on the woofers and Air Tight ATM-3 on ribbons was clearly superior to "matched" all Air Tight's.

Just for the sake of saying I had done it, I swapped the two amps positions, driving the bass with the Air Tight and ribbon with VTL 750.

Not too surprising, by comparison the bass was gone. What I did not expect, the ribbons now had balls like the bass and contrast I didn't think possible.

To say I was shocked would hardly describe my reaction

How could a ribbon, 90 DB efficient and running only 1000 HZ and above possibly benefit from swapping between two world class amps, one with 130 watts a channel, the other 750 watts per channel ?

As mentioned at the start of this post, more VTL's on the way. Not exactly how I thought this turn out, 3000 watts on Dali Megalines.

Just lock me up now.

albertporter

Owner
Thank you Sirspeedy for your compliment.

I have been lucky enough to get advice over many years from many sources, helping me get my system where I wanted it.

Tonight was music night and we played Elvis Costello's "The Delivery Man" followed by the new Classic Records repress of "Candy" by Lee Morgan and then the original LP pressing of Louis Prima and Keely Smith's "Old Black Magic."

Next was the "Ray Charles and Betty Carter" LP, then "Ballad Of The Fallen" with Carla Bley, Don Cherry and Charlie Haden. To really confuse the troops I dug out an original Everly Brothers mono from the late 50's and never even stopped to clean it.

We had so much fun and the system was so totally engaging that my wife had to tell us to turn it off, we were still blasting away until nearly 11:00 O'clock.

That is what this hobby is all about. Sitting with friends when the sound is right and being totally immersed in pleasure of great tunes.

albertporter

Owner
Guess I should read my own thread instead of shuffling though the paper on my desk :^). Thanks Ray.

albertporter

Owner
Hello Doc (Gotin),

You didn't call me back but heard from Tom that you sent him a deposit for your your own custom Dali crossover. Please email or call me with progress report, I can't find your number.

albertporter

Owner
Gotin, I enjoyed our phone time.

Let me know how it goes with Tom. I expect you will have at least a three month wait for completion of the custom tube crossover. From my experience it's worth both the cost and the wait.

albertporter

Owner
Gotin, thank you for the support, it has been a long climb to get the system where I wanted it. The crossover was a joint venture between myself and Transition Audio. Tom reverse engineered the original Dali circuitry and then we decided what to do based on that.

My crossover has the ability to adjust bass EQ (equal and below the Dali original) and bass amplitude. Unlike the original Dali crossover, the high frequencies are unity gain.

I wrote a review of the Dali Megaline for PFO and posted it a couple of months ago. Now that the custom crossover has proven successful, I am writing part two.

Use the Audiogon server to email me and we can swap phone numbers. I will share whatever information and experience you desire, including contact info for Tom.

albertporter

Owner
Yes, the Dali Megaline is large, but Dali makes several smaller speakers for their homeland market in Denmark.

I heard a nice demo of the Dali Euphonia at the London HI Fi show. There was a large crowd of interested locals listening. Probably more the right size speaker for lots of people, including many American homes.

My home is very old and the style back then (1950's) was to have a large "family room."

Believe me, I looked at tens of dozens of homes before I found even one with this large a living room, even with the realtor warned that anything smaller would be ignored.

albertporter

Owner
Gunbei, your welcome to come dine with us and spin a few tunes. Don't know if travel ever brings you this way but I am a willing host.

albertporter

Owner
Auro, I honestly don't know the cost, it was all part of the reconstruction of the room, walls, foundation, electrical and acoustical treatment.

There was a lot of India Multicolor slate, I think 1000 to 1200 square feet so we could pick from two full pallet loads. There was a batch that was returned due to discoloration, poor grading or damage. My guess is we used about 880 square feet all together.

My home, including the listening room is pier and beam. Wishing to avoid springy floor problems and support the weight, we constructed upward from the concrete piers with steel plates (rather than traditional wood wedges) followed with impregnated beams (Lambeams), decked with pressure treated 2X6's and topped with dual layer of 5/8" locking floor panels.

The floor panels were sealed with a solution (with paint roller) and allowed to dry. Then 1" to 2" of concrete was floated on top before bedding the slate.

I will never forget the large pile of dry concrete and sand in the middle of my living room and my tile guy holding a garden hose spraying water and mixing with a shovel.

I would have never believed he could mix and spread it like he did, the guy was truly an old world craftsman. When he was finished, the concrete plus sand base was so smooth, it could have been the finished floor.

That's probably how my tile guy got the slate so perfect, start with a perfect base.

albertporter

Owner
Thank you for the compliment Auro. When the space was rebuilt and acoustically treated my wife and I looked at many options for the floor. What you see is India Multi color slate, a stone product that is quarried and is available in several color styles and quality grades.

http://www.naturalstone-marble-granite-exporter.com/slate-tile-stone.html

http://www.ansiindia.com/slate-stones.html

Be sure you get a quality craftsman to install slate. The surfaces are naturally rough and thickness varies. The installer must bed each piece to exact height to get a smooth finish.

albertporter

Owner
Everyone says the magic is back, best sound ever. I surpassed every other speaker I have ever owned, including my super maxed out Sound lab Ultimates.

The soundstage is absolutely enormous, the distortion is non existent and the warmth and dynamics wash over you like water. Regardless of the material we played everyone was impressed.

It would be tough to put into words the difference between the stock crossover and the new tube job I had built. The Dali is in another league now and I am satisfied.

I still have several things to try, Sylvania mil spec tubes in the crossover, four Air Tight ATM-3 with all Mullards and Rel subs or maybe four VTL 750 with 6550 on bass and KT 88 on ribbons.

I have guys in my audio group with this gear. Just need time to test.

albertporter

Owner
Dgad, thank you. Each day is a new experience as the new crossover breaks in. I have connected it directly to my CD player and run Purist and Ayre break in discs continuously for the last couple of days. Amazing how long new gear takes settle in.

Tonight is music night with my usual crowd, so we'll see what everyone thinks.

albertporter

Owner
Thank you Larry, wish you could hear them now, quite an upgrade and they were not bad when you were here :^).

Pat, alias: "Part That Holds The Wheel On." With less than six hours on the new crossover the dynamics with the Walker are (maybe) 75% of what we heard with my best tape. My best tape had the obvious advantage of being the ORIGINAL safety, having only touched the heads of the tube Ampex machine that mastered it and the artist plugged into it.

Pretty rough on a turntable (ANY turntable) trying to keep up with an original. The regular prerecorded tapes on the old crossover are easily defeated in every way by the Walker and with the new crossover these tapes take on a whole new dimension.

Jafox, thanks for the vote of confidence. Unfortunately my reason for building the crossover was thinking the Dali was at it's maximum (according to the designer via email), so I started the crossover project (now it's been 6 months !) to "save" the Dali's.

As mentioned in my post above, when the crossover finally arrived I was so happy with the Dali's I was almost not excited to put the new crossover in the system. Of course I did and now I am happy things worked out the way they did. You never realize what's possible until better comes along, and boy is the new crossover better!

Macdadtexas, looks like a home theater discussion at that link. My system is basically two channel with Vandy dialogue and B&W rears. Enough HT effects to make a DVD sound track move around as an add on to my front channels.

I see lots of suggestions there, including an all Maggie system. I would probably love that all Maggie rig and the Vandy 5 rig mentioned, the Klipsch and some other brands mentioned are a bit rough for my needs but who knows what that guy is looking for? Special effects are better for some people when they tear your head off. Me, I'm just looking for enough low distortion "fun" effects to keep the movie amusing.

In my opinion there is no such thing as ultra high end home theater. Sure you can spend the dollars, but in the end, your reproducing celery hitting a wood block or cars exploding.

Even If a high end HT system were capable of accurately reproducing a real explosion, I would not want to be in the room with it. I need to save my hearing for the music I love.

albertporter

Owner
The long awaited (reverse engineered) tube crossover arrived today via FedEx and after a short warm up, replaced the stock unit.

Last night was one of the best sessions (musically) I have EVER had with my system. Everyone shared this opinion, a situation that does not occur frequently with this group of audiophiles.

A few hours ago, with the new crossover in the system and only 5 hours to settle in, a new standard was set AGAIN.

Frankly I am overwhelmed and grateful that my system is REALLY right (at last).

albertporter

Owner
Spoke to Tom today, the crossover had one design change after final testing which delayed delivery. Burn in process and final tests with pink noise is in progress. I expect it will be shipped FedEx air on Monday, 27th.

albertporter

Owner
Just an update, the designer of my new tube crossover called today, it's finished !

In a few days, perhaps the end of this coming week, it will be shipped to me.

The time between now and then will be used for final testing and burn in. Tom wants to be certain none of the critical parts "drift" out of calibration, causing errors in the Dali's crossover point or bandwidth.

I will post the results of my initial listening session as soon as possible.

albertporter

Owner
I agree with you Macdad, the Sound-labs not only look impressive, they ARE impressive. I was a dedicated Sound-Lab owner for more than fifteen years, a testament to my level of satisfaction.

I could send you an email with images of the old system with Sound-Labs in place if it helps the cause :^).

albertporter

Owner
Nate, thanks for the kind words. I really got to know you during this (your second) trip to my home. I wish you lived nearer so we could do the music thing on a regular basis. Your a very courteous and unselfish person, two attributes that seem to have been forgotten in these "modern times".

Pat, I sincerely appreciate your comments about my system and my goals. A high end system that only works with audiophile music is worthless. Unfortunately, as resolution and detail are pressed to the limit, it tends to expose weaknesses that ruin the experience.

In short, a high end system is no fun unless you can spin all your LP's and we certainly put that concept to the test, playing every venue and quality of music imaginable (I even sneaked in a little Country and RAP without any complaints).

Special thanks must go to Cello for bringing those incredible roses he imports. That made my wife so happy she forgave me for spending four solid days listening to music with the guys.

albertporter

Owner
Jafox, thank you for the compliment on my tube choices for the Callisto. I spent about a year trying every combo before deciding what was best. My first Audiogon posts on this was probably in 1999 or 2000.

As for the volume control, Jim White intends to leave the already perfect, dual mono, mechanical-step types alone, achieving remote by driving them with a stepper motor. This is a suggestion I made several years ago and he arrived at the same conclusion on his own.

All the later Aesthetix Io and Callistos have a hole in the rear of the main unit that is plugged with a sheet metal disc. Removing the screws opens the plug, allowing a large octal plug for the electrical connections to the outboard control unit.

It will be infrared of course, and I believe Jim will use the same hand held device as currently supplied with his less expensive line introduced a year or so ago.

I am eager to see if he uses a notched belt to drive the two volume controls via a centrally mounted motor. This would be the logical approach. Also hope I'm up to the task of installing it and getting it "zeroed" out where it tracks properly.

albertporter

Owner
Thank you Artg.

The Aesthetix Callisto (pre) and Io (phono) have been part of my system almost since Jim White first introduced it to the public nine years ago. From the first moment I heard these pieces, I knew he was on to something special.

Jim and I have become very good friends and I have tested several prototypes and proposed model changes for him and expect to soon receive the new remote control unit for the Callisto. Jim is waiting on the last bit of programming to be completed and then it will be shipped to me. I Intend to install it myself with help from Jim and avoid the perils of shipping and inevitable down time

PBB, thanks for asking. Yes, the Sound-Labs are gone, replaced with the Dali. I was not certain I could be happy with another speaker after owning (only) Sound-Labs for fifteen years. I did not change because the are not good speakers, they are one of the finest speakers ever produced in the history of audio (in my opinion).

albertporter

Owner
Just received the Scott Nixon tube DAC this morning and although it is not settled in, the sound is VERY promising.

DAC

Great textures, very smooth and rich. I hope the dynamics and contrast can be improved, although this is an area very much effected by lack of time on the new capacitors and power supply.

At this stage any test is far from conclusive but a quick swap between three (of my five) digital cables (Trico, Silver Sonic and Purist), the Purist was my favorite.

albertporter

Owner
If you think I'm funny, wait until you meet "Squirrel Girl."

She is part of a four pack of furry tree critters that live in my yard and come when I call them. Favorite foods? Wheat bread or Tostitos.

Also, we have three other guys in my group that have offered to share their homes with us and enjoy their systems. You can hopefully hear Wilsons, Vandy 5's and Kharma Exquisites in addition to my Dali's.

The guy with the Wilson Puppies has an SME and SME arm (great analog rig, IMO). The guy with the Vandy's has a VPI TNT with a Benz cartridge and the Kharma guy has the same table as me, the Walker.

We are listening here Saturday if you agree. Also plan to shop the areas largest record store (LP and CD's) and then dive into some SUPREME TexMex in Ft. Worth, Texas at Joe T. Garcias.

Hopefully I can get you drunk enough to think my system is great and you can post here.

albertporter

Owner
The Sony S9000es performs very well with DVD playback using component cables into the HD WEGA. The digital output is fed into my Marantz DTS player for HT application and I am satisfied with both units for that purpose.

As for redbook, there are many players that outperform this Sony, but it is a good player.

If digital were my primary source, I would upgrade to something better. My plans for the moment is to try the Scott Nixon tube DAC which is supposed to be shipped to me this week for audition.

albertporter

Owner
Chad, you were a pleasure to speak with as well, sorry I did not respond to your thank you sooner, I had a lot of people show up for Tuesday night music and my hands were full.

albertporter

Owner
Surfgod.

I just got involved in open reel tape again after many years of absence. The Technics 1520 was chosen for it's ability to play master dupes (15 IPS, half track), and prerecorded commercial releases as well.

The 1520 can run single ended and balanced and will support tube microphones. I am planning some original recordings and will disclose more on that subject later. All those features make it a great match up for my Aesthetix balanced tube preamp and the tube microphones I am interested in.

I have been slowly building a library of prerecorded, all are 7.5 IPS and either quarter or half track. As you no doubt already know, these tape vary enormously in sound quality.

If I compare the usual prerecorded Verve or London tape with the best LP's I have, the outcome would be a toss up. My turntable is stunning and of course there are tens of thousands of great LP's while choices in open reel remain limited at best.

If I play my original "safety" copy, acquired from the Faron Young estate, or the master dub of Aerosmith "Toys In the Attic," it sets new standards in my system for dynamics, impact and channel separation.

Oddly enough, only the Master dubs compete with the Walker for signal to noise, a real testament to the Walker-Aesthetix's quality.

I am working on acquiring and restoring an Ampex 351 with dual mono playback electronics. From feedback among my friends in the business, this is supposed to be the mother of all tape machines, providing dynamics and tonal balance that is not to be believed.

So, my answer is not complete. The Technics is better than many turntables I have owned with the right software, and perhaps the Ampex will set new standards as to what my system will do.

I just received a master dub of Simon and Garfunkel, "Bookends" yesterday. It's amazing what is left off the commercial releases compared to a copy this close to the source.

albertporter

Owner
Thank you Mejames, I hope the guy building my crossover does not make me wait too long, I have opened a can of worms here.

albertporter

Owner
Jayctoy,

Your right, I can't get the sound of my old electrostatic speakers out of my head. The Sound-Lab Ultimates did some things better than any other speaker I have ever heard.

As with all things audio, different directions offer different benefits. The Dali is much more efficient, has better dynamics and surprisingly, has better resolution at some frequencies. It is not bothered by room boundaries (giant line source) and has very short "warm up time" when started up. I have no doubt it's 7 foot ribbon is competition for the best electrostatic panels, but without size, efficiency and reliability issues.

The one thing I miss most about the Sound-Lab is the pristine even textures and lack of brightness in the high frequencies. I sincerely believe the Dali crossover, with it's wall wart power supply and OP amp circuits are contributing to some of what I detect. This is the conclusion that I ended with in my review at PFO:

Megaline Review

I think this speaker has a real shot at being my permanent reference speaker once the custom tube crossover is complete. I plan to do part two, with complete disclosure of the continuing break in and what each crossover contributes.

albertporter

Owner
The 90 DB is great but 3 ohms and below is tough for some tube amps.

Fortunately, the VTL 750 is rated 550 watts into 8 ohms and 750 watts into 4 ohms and the VTL 450 is rated 339 watts at 8 ohms and 500 watts into 8 ohms.

Looks like your Mahlers would be a great candidate for either.

albertporter

Owner
Shane, Mejames has offered some good experience that should help answer your questions.

Unfortunately I have not had both VTL amps in the same system at the same time. A friend in California (an audio reviewer) has owned both at once and reports that the sound is very similar, at least on his Magneplanar 20's.

My experience is the 750 has more reserve and drive, as would be expected for it's larger size and price tag. Both amps are extremely good, but I choose the 750 so I would not have to wonder if I had made the right choice.

By the way, what is the efficiency of the Mahlers?

albertporter

Owner
The VTL's were used previously to drive my Sound-Lab Ultimates, providing the best sound I ever achieved with them. Indeed, the VTL "sound" is sweet, smooth and has the best bass weight of any amp I have ever owned.

Then there's dynamics, the VTL has that in spades due to the absolutely huge power supply, especially the Ref 750.

For Vienna Mahlers the Ref 450 would probably be all you could stand, it's a very powerful amp. If you want to pick flaws with the VTL, I would give the nod on bass "tightness" to it's transistor cousins.

Which is the more preferred sound is in the ears of the beholder.

albertporter

Owner
Downunder,

The Dali is a true bi-amp system, meaning the Dali electronic crossover inserts at the front end of the system, just after the preamp.

The preamp signal is divided by this crossover into low and high frequencies at about 1100 Hz, prior to reaching the power amps via long interconnects. That means there MUST be four amplifiers. I choose four mono blocks rather than two stereo, although either way would work.

The cool part is, there is only short connecting wire and drivers in the Megaline cabinet because the crossover is electronic. The amps look directly into the ribbon (Air-Tight ATM-3) and woofers (VTL Ref 750's).

This design eliminates capacitors, resistors, inductors, (and sometime) volume pots found in traditional speaker design. Dali is on to something with this, in my opinion.

albertporter

Owner
Kalan,

Thanks for the compliment, I grow more satisfied with it each day, part of the lengthy break in ordeal.

I just received an email concerning my review of the Dali Megaline at PFO. It was from a friend of mine, describing the break in process with his Acapella speakers. They required 550 hours to integrate to his satisfaction and continued to improve even beyond 1000 hours. This guy has very high standards, so I'm not surprised that we shared similar break in experience with two different world class speakers.

As for wiring, the four runs of interconnect between the Aesthetix Callisto and amps are under my pier and beam foundation. They are suspended within 2.5 inch PVC water pipe. The electrical was designed around the system with outlets on the side walls directly beside the amps, keeping the AC cords short and tidy.

The active bi-amping required for the Dali means the amps are directly behind the speakers, maintaining the same advantage as the AC, short and direct.

albertporter

Owner
It's pulled out from the wall for the photo. I keep it tucked up against the wall out of the reach of the left speakers "tow in" and line source imaging. I have listened with and without the Sony in the room and there is no problem.

albertporter

Owner
System edited: Image added, open reel Technics 1520

albertporter

Owner
Fred, I changed not because I did not love the Ultimates, but due to reliability issues. Finding a replacement for a single driver (crossover less) speaker is tough indeed.

The Dali Megaline is a two way with only two types of drivers and comes as close to single driver technology as I could find.

I just submitted a review of the Megalines to Positive Feedback Online where I was recently hired as a reviewer. The article and images should be posted soon.

albertporter

Owner
Speedball, thanks for the compliment. The Megaline integrated into the space very well. Better still, as they break in the sound is getting closer to what I want as a reference standard.

Nate, If your traveling this way again please do set aside time to visit. I think you would be surprised at the changes and YES, I have lots of good music, including a half dozen recently acquired master tape dupes that are stunning.

albertporter

Owner
System edited: Images edited

albertporter

Owner
Eldartford,

I agree, having doors on the left side and opening to the kitchen on the right is not ideal. The only saving grace, the acoustical treatment was designed to help overcome those issues.

What else helps, although it does not look like it in my photo's (very wide lens). The distance between the wall with the speakers and the opening to the kitchen, is more than 14 feet.

That's the entire room length in some homes, so not as big a problem as might first appear.

Like most people, I bought the home I could afford, with a room suitable for music. Then I did everything possible to improve it, short of compromising the comfort of family and friends.

albertporter

Owner
Slipnot1,

You are welcome anytime, let me know when your in the Dallas/Ft. Worth area and I will pick you up at the airport. If you want to meet the whole gang, make it a Tuesday when everyone is here for music night.

albertporter

Owner
System edited: New room view showing HDTV

albertporter

Owner
System edited: Images edited

albertporter

Owner
Gregg, it has been a long haul.

When the Dali Megalines showed up at my door, they sounded absolutely awful. High frequencies were bright and there was NO bass below 60 HZ.

Fortunately they have improved steadily over the months, with (very) deep bass showing up at around 389 hours. They have 457.5 hours on them now and they are still improving every week.

To get the deep bass working, I ran (on repeat) the Purist Audio break in CD, and then the Ayre CD break in discs and pounded the bass, powering them with VTL 750 mono blocks.

It was amazing, particularly with the Ayre disc and its sweep tones, hearing the bass begin several seconds earlier as break in progressed. I don't know what frequency the Dali's begin responding to, but some notes are so deep they are most audible, fifty five feet away in the most distant part of our home.

The custom tube crossover is being assembled and I hope to have it within a few weeks. It will use 12-SN7 octal's and constructed in an aluminum chassis with outboard (tube rectified) power supply.

Once the crossover is in, I will experiment with four VTL 750's, four Air Tight ATM 3's and also my current configuration of VTL 750 (bass) Air Tight ATM3, (ribbons).

Three of my regular members feel the Dali's have surpassed my Soundlab Ultimates in almost every way. I will reserve final judgement until the crossover is replaced.

I will say I am feeling very positive at this point.

albertporter

Owner
Craig,

Not knowing the sound of your Sim Moon gear it's difficult to know what direction I should suggest.

What cable is in the system now and what do you wish you could change about the sound your getting?

albertporter

Owner
I received a preliminary report from the analysis of my Dali Megaline's crossover.

There is more than 16 DB difference in gain between the ribbon, high frequency section and the 12 dynamic woofers.

The Dali crossover outputs (to the amps) are buffered and produce minimum + 2 DB gain over the input level from my Aesthetix.

In addition, there is an bass EQ curve that boosts output all the way down to 12 HZ (or below). It's possible that identical results are not obtainable in an all tube designed crossover. More measurements are being made and I will post numbers when I know.

albertporter

Owner
Since I'm leaving for CES next week and unable to listen at home, I packed up and shipped off my Dali Megaline's electronic crossover to be "reverse engineered."

It is going to Tom Tutay of Trans Audio Design, famous for his Altec 1570 amplifier mods as well as USA repair station for Air Tight.

If I can afford it, I will have him build an octal based all tube crossover with outboard tube rectified power supply that is electrically identical to original.

I should have my original crossover and "fact sheet" back around Jan 10th.

albertporter

Owner
Perhaps the solid state crossover is doing the best job but experimentation is the only way to know.

Worst case, I wind up with two crossovers to experiment with. Modifying my original crossover leaves nothing to compare against.

I agree that the two amps I'm using could be part of the problem and as you say, a two way speaker with two distinctly different drivers is a big change from a single driver electrostatic with no crossover.

None the less, much of the magic for me is getting the texture and tonal balance of the sound to be acceptable while playing every kind of music. I got there with the Soundlabs with all tubes and every tube change was paramount to where I evolved the sound.

The Dali is higher resolution in many ways, begging for finesse. I have to believe it will be just as sensitive to these changes if not more so.

I am off to a great start, one of the guys I'm considering for the crossover project built an all tube replacement for friend's Maggie 3.6's.

The transformation was astounding, giving me hope that my ribbon drivers will respond in a similar fashion.

albertporter

Owner
Now that I am at 315 hours of break in on my Dali Megalines, I am becoming more and more pleased with the bass response.

500 hours is reported to be the absolute minimum but I am already getting terrific dynamics and reasonably good deep bass. Hopefully this will continue to improve as I accumulate more time on the system.

In the meanwhile, I have more concern with the midrange integration and a lack of smoothness and phase coherency that my Soundlab Ultimates delivered in the midrange and highs.

I suspect the Dali's solid state crossover is "imprinting" it's personality onto my tube front end, keeping it from delivering the finesse and rich textures that will allow me to emotionally attach (the last bit) to my system.

When my tube front end was directly driving the Soundlabs, I could tweak every last bit of detail and nuance and every tube change was enormous.

Now, I find the front end restricted by the buffered transistor crossover. Dali has warned me that changing this is a bad idea but I cannot resist making this experiment.

I know two audiophile engineers who promise they can reverse engineer the solid state Dali crossover, replacing it with an octal tube based crossover that is a dead match in all electrical parameters. The plan is to use a tube rectified power supply to keep the dynamics true to life.

Plan is to remove the original crossover and ship it to one of the two engineers while I am at CES gathering images for Audiogon.

Wish me luck, I need it.

albertporter

Owner
You guys are something else :^).

albertporter

Owner
Hello Sirspeedy. I can't offer any first hand advice about the TAD. The only time I've heard it is at audio shows were the set up and sound is typically not good.

The Graham 2.2 arm is wonderful, I owned three different Graham arms, each one the improved version over the previous model. By the time the Tungsten mount was employed it had improved enormously.

My experience with adjustment of the Graham may be like yours, I will explain my experience and you can compare notes.

Following the manufacturers instructions and using the supplied overhang gauge and stylus alignment tool, it is easy to get good sound. Getting perfect sound is a LOT of work.

The stylus changes length (overhang) with azimuth and track force, making it difficult to hit all three at one time. Add to that, the rubber damping in the counterbalance stores energy so that once the proper track force is set, it tends to "continue" in the direction you last turned the track force knob.

I imagine this is friction between the arm, rubber and weight but it makes it impossible to hit it perfect in one sitting. I find the weight off in as little as 10 minutes or as long as a day depending on temperate, humidity and such.

Add to that, the Graham centers and levels itself by gravity. That sounds fine until you realize that the turntable it's sitting on may have one or more corners change spring tension or your floor (particularly pier and beam) may move a few thousandths of an inch.

This would seem to be no big deal until you realize that a few thousandths of an inch at the floor could amount to a full half bubble (on a precision level) at the deck of the turntable.

My experience was with the Basis Debut Gold and the silicone damped springs could be adjusted by turning the tower tops. Even if perfectly level, a change in the floor, the temperature or your hand resting on one edge for a bit too long could alter the "perfect" level, throwing the Graham off by several degrees.

Unfortunately ANY change in adjustment in the Graham is audible, proof of its excellent design and performance.

As for Purist, I ran Dominus RCA between the termination box of my Graham and phono stage and was never able to find another cable it's equal, much less beat it.

I have not heard the Schroder Ref but it looks absolutely amazing. I have heard reports from reliable sources that lead me to believe it is likely in the top two or three pivot tone arms made today.

albertporter

Owner
Tom, I wish you would visit me and listen to some tunes. I am gaining ground on the break in issue every day.

I just received a Phillips CD player and a stack of burned CD's from Sean.

THANK YOU SEAN.

He shipped without asking because he knew I would likely refuse his kind offer. I am using his Phillips because of CDR (burned CD's) incompatibility with my Sony and a borrowed Toshiba.

The new Mullard XF2 tubes, combined with Telefunken inputs for my Air Tight ATM3's is a stunning improvement. One of the guys in my group said it was bigger than swapping between some amps.

This evening I passed the 280 hour mark on the Dali's minimum required 500 hours. Already the Dali's have improved so much it is hard to imagine a store being able to sell a newly opened pair.

albertporter

Owner
Mejames, I think Zaikesman has answered for me. The input drivers in the VTL 750 have a great effect on sonics. Even switching brands (same tube number) between Telefunken, Brimar and Sylvania alters the overall tonal character, dynamic contrast and transparency.

Owing to the fact the ribbon on my Dali is currently being driven by Air Tight ATM-3's, which is a very transparent EL34 based amp, I need to bring the VTL more in line with the ATM personality at the crossover point (1100 HZ).

I think Sylvania would do the job as it is very neutral. If I'm wrong, I can plug the Tele's or Brimars back in. This is what makes owning tube gear a blessing and a curse.

albertporter

Owner
Zaikesman, your correct about the cathedral ceiling and it's effect on speakers. Luckily the Soundlabs and Dali Megaline are both good candidates for this architecture.

The only effect (with both speakers) is slightly higher bass output in the lowest frequencies on the left side of the room. I assume this is due to boundary reinforcement.

I corrected this pretty well with the Soundlabs using RPG bass traps. I simply rotated them to be more effective on the left side, equalizing the apparent output.

Strangely enough, the Dali avoids this small error better than the Soundlabs.

I must say, tonight was a major turning point in the system. I had two members of my audio group proclaim the sound was already better than my Soundlabs. I'm not sure I agree with them but will say the Dali's are extremely good and are showing great promise. Certainly they are dynamic and extremely low distortion. The resolution in some frequencies exceed anything I have ever owned.

Hope my Mullard XF2 tubes for the Air TIght arrive soon. Those tubes and the Sylvania drivers for my VTL's plus at least 250 more hours and we shall see what these guys are capable of.

albertporter

Owner
Yes the Dali is a dipole, at least the ribbon is. The woofers are ported and the design and driver size reminds me of the Dynaudio Evidence Temptation, a speaker I very much respect.

My Soundlab was a single driver dipole and responded very positively to the acoustical treatment. Nothing about that treatment has changed since my acquisition of the Dali's,

With Soundlabs my soundstage and depth extended out of my living room into my neighbors back yard, The sense of time decay was flawless and tonal balance was perfect.

Hard for me to believe the treatment was in any way a mistake.

albertporter

Owner
So it was an intentional decision to go symmetrical. It's been a while. I was taught the ideal room shape would be a trapezoid ( no sides parralell)

More like an intentional decision to retain the existing symmetrical dimensions due to cost. It would be nice to begin with a clean slate but not possible in my case.

Already mentioned in this thread, the ceiling has a cavity (not visible in the photos except where a worker is) and this space along with the walls are all treated with multiple layer of wood, sheetrock and acoustical treatment. The cloth is also acoustical but primarily it is there to HIDE the treatment.

The space behind the Dali's is 4.5 feet to the rear wall and 5.6 feet from the corner. Consider too, the "wall" is solid RPG diffusion panels over twin layers of 5/8 solid core plywood and the cavity is filled with acoustic batting.

I suspect the speakers "see" more space than physically exists. At least that is my understanding of the concept. Perhaps Rives or another expert can comment?

For what it's worth, the formula on George Cardas web site about placement of speakers based on room dimensions as well as experiments over a 15 year period with Soundlabs arrived at placement of the Dali's of within two inches of the same spot. I am open to experiment but doubt there is much point until all is settled in.

albertporter

Owner
According to the acoustics designer, reflections can be controlled by either asymmetrical dimensions and / or damping.

To completely restructure the framing of my home (built in 1956) would require tearing down the wall between living space and the kitchen or living space and my photo studio. Both of these are load bearing walls.

This remodeling was partially paid for by my insurance company when a water leak destroyed most of my foundation. The process to remove all the defective timbers also required removal of my air conditioning duct work, stringer beams, some of the wall support studs and in some areas, all of the sheetrock. The biggest expense was tearing out solid Oak hardwood floors and about 650 square feet of Terrazzo stone.

I took the opportunity to put in my own funds and upgrade this repair to the status displayed here. As mentioned before, Russ Berger Design Group helped with acoustics for free because we have been friends for years, otherwise I could not have afforded him.

Russ's last detailed drawing for a similar high end room (being built here in Dallas) was $36,000.00. The plans were sufficiently detailed that bids are coming in at about $340.00 a square foot.

Applying these figures to my space, this project would have cost about $221,000.00. That is WAY beyond my means, so I am grateful to have achieved what I did with less budget.

I will say the Soundlab speakers were sounding as perfect as any system I have ever heard. No doubt the new cores helped but if this room was not great, the sound would not be great.

For now, I must continue to break in my Dali speakers. They are showing promise sonically and I am completely satisfied with their construction and the support I have received from the importer and the designer in Denmark.

albertporter

Owner
Nrchy, thanks for the offer but too much risk for you. I appreciate your thoughtfulness.

Alex, could be, I don't know. This same disk played with my previous Sony DVD, CD player, including the repeat function.

albertporter

Owner
Nrchy. I have the Purist disc and yes, it works better than music at speeding up the break in process.

Problem is, my Sony 9000es will not play it because it's a CDR. I borrowed a Toshiba from a member of my group and it plays CDR's but won't repeat play, even when it's programed properly.

So, If I leave for any reason, I have the choice of constant music or one hour of Purist disc, followed by silence until I return.

When are you coming again? I am ready for you to dine and listen to music with us.

albertporter

Owner
Thanks for the positive review of my images Alex.

Nrchy, I still don't have enough hours to have this beast smoothed out. The high frequencies are a bit too forward and deep bass has not shown up yet. As I keep mentioning, the word is 500 hours for break in and I just passed 200 hours.

The best I can do is about eight or ten hours a day of solid music. At some point my wife and son need to get into that part of the house to dine and watch a bit of TV.

Assuming 40 or 50 hours a week, I need 2.5 months to get to the magic 500 hour mark. Wish I could have been playing music that five weeks I was away covering the European and Denver audio shows.

I must say, this new combo of dual VTL 750's mono blocks and dual ATM-3 mono blocks is unbelievably powerful. Volume and dynamics are no longer an issue but finesse and delicacy are.

New tubes purchased from Germany yesterday should help. 16 NOS Mullard Xf2 Blackburn for the Air Tights.

albertporter

Owner
System edited: Air Tight ATM3 added to component list. Image of VTL 750 and Air Tight ATM3 together with Dali Megalines.

albertporter

Owner
Reviews? Now were believing reviews?

OK, here's a quote from Art Pfeffer's review of the VTL MB-750 Reference Amps. For those that don't know, he is also with Absolute Sound.

Twenty-first Century state-of-the-art in
performance...   superb image density, the ability to create an almost infinite number of images...

And this one from Wayne Donnelly of Ultimate Audio, also the VTL MB-750 Reference Tube Amplifier.

... Even at moderate volumes these amplifiers
have an authority that in my experience cannot be equaled. The authority is heard not only in the precise and tuneful bass, but all the way up to the very airy top end...
 

And HP's review on the Atma-Sphere tube OTL amplifier. (Golden Ear Award)

Given the right material and the right speaker system (say the PipeDreams), the MA-2 can create an illusion of real sounds that, at moments, are quite uncanny. Its ability to encompass quite wide dynamics
while resolving , during forte and stronger passages, the quieter and more nuanced small dynamics from other instruments, is unsurpassed in my experience.

Combine the dynamics and the clarity and accuracy of its reproduction of fast (and slow) transients, and you reach what I believe to be a new level of realism in home playback.

I could hardly believe my ears.
So reviews say everyone is abandoning tubes for transistor? That’s silly, neither position nor audio review proves anything.

albertporter

Owner
Gregadd, thank you sincerely for your comments. I have not ruled out the possibility of Jeff Rowlands new amps or the Classe. Both are excellent and as you say, transistors have come a long way.

Nrchy, I would love to have you visit again! I must concentrate on making this right and the next step is getting new cable and speakers broken in and determining what amplifiers the Dali's like.

If your headed this way you must come by. If your flying in I will come get you at the airport.

albertporter

Owner
I appreciate your response and agree there are people who prefer the sound you are describing. I have owned both solid state and tube preamplifiers and prefer Aesthetix preamp and phono over everything ever built.

If you have not heard these you cannot imagine the level of detail and resolution they offer. The easiest thing to criticize about them would be their suggested retail price and the cost of re tubing all the glass with NOS Telefunkens.

Regardless of what each of us choose, we compromise. With every piece of equipment there are limitations and every time we make a choice, we do so in balance with our taste and the other pieces of equipment in the system.

I don't disagree that solid state has the potential for sharp transients (as you stated) but there is a natural bloom, particularly on acoustical instruments that tubes often get "right" when transistors are busy getting the slam correct.

I may wind up with solid state for all four amps, running the top and bottom, who knows? I am open minded and willing to try but remain optimistic about tubes ability to reach me emotionally.

albertporter

Owner
Eldartford, hiring an orchestra would be great sound but what about all the Jazz artists I listen to?

Many of my all time favorites are listening to the creators "ultimate system" as they have passed on.

Gregadd, not sure if your suggesting I change my amps or preamp, but the VTL 750 has outstanding bass. Not as tight as solid state, but huge impact, bloom and reserve that goes on forever.

For the time being I am trying to keep the voicing and tone of the four amplifiers similar so they are believable top to bottom. That can be particularly hard to do with radically different designs such as solid state and triode tube.

There are not a lot of people with Megalines and even fewer have experimented with all the tube and transistor amp possibilities, so I am kind of on my own.

For upcoming testing, (I own): Pair of mono 60 watt (w/100 watt power supply) Atma-Sphere OTL's, pair of mono Air Tight ATM-3, two stereo Dynaco 70's and pair of mono VTL 750.

Also possible to borrow from guys in my group: Pair of mono Wolcott Presence, pair of mono VTL 750, pair of mono VTL MB-125, and a BAT VK-75se.

I have requested two pair of Cary CAD-211 Anniversary edition as review samples. Each mono block uses 6SL7 for an input tube, EL34 and two 300 B driving two 845. Could be really magic.

Will have to wait and see if that happens.

albertporter

Owner
Jond,

ATM-3 are, Ultralinear 110 watts (8 Ohms) and Triode 55 watts (8 Ohms). Output tubes are EL34 (6CA7) and use 6 per channel. Total Harmonic Distortion < .08% at 1 watt RMS, 1kHz. < 1.0% at 110 watt RMS, 1kHz.

Input tubes are 12AX7 and 12AU7, easy to swap and I have tons of each as NOS.

One of the guys in my group had a pair of ATM-3 last year and I loved the sound. Similar to Wolcotts that I used for so many years but maybe even a bit smoother. Certainly the point to point wire and Tamura transformers are a huge plus.

albertporter

Owner
Unfortunately I don't have a conclusion yet. The Soundlabs were sounding the best ever when I packed them up and shipped them to the new owner. I prefer to not go into why I sold them but will say they were unbelievable when working correctly.

The Dali Megaline is showing signs of filling the void the Soundlabs left. I hear signs of resolution in the Dali ribbon, equal and better in some ways to my Soundlabs. That's saying a lot because the electrostatic highs on the Soundlab was pretty much perfect.

I should know more next week when my new amps arrive, having just bought Air Tight ATM-3 mono blocks (here at Audiogon). I plan on driving the ribbons with these and the woofers with my VTL 750's.

This should show off their ability, although I must buffer results with the factory warning that 500 hours are required to break in the woofers. Until then the lowest octaves will not be showing their stuff.

albertporter

Owner
Francisco, I borrowed a DVD player that plays CDR's and now I am able to run the Purist Audio break in disc. I still plan on buying some additional CD's and appreciate your suggestion and link to TNT.

albertporter

Owner
Good question Gregadd. I suspect the original speaker designs are run for a considerable amount of time not only to test but reveal any weakness or warranty issues.

Along the way I would assume the "big guys" like B&W, Wilson, Dynaudio and Dali set aside a random pair of speakers now and again, assuring the performance is still to specification. I don't have proof of this but I seldom hear a pair of these high quality speakers that disappoint.

albertporter

Owner
Eric, It goes without saying that you are always welcome. It will be interesting to see what you think about the differences between Soundlabs and the Dali's.

If the amps I've requested arrive by then, I think you will be surprised.

albertporter

Owner
Greg I wish it were all in my mind, a hot bath would be much easier and certainly a lot quicker.

I have a music group of between eleven and fifteen members and some come no more often that once every two months. Some come every week. When EVERYONE claims to hear the same results, even when there is no way to compare notes, I have to believe that my ears are not fooling me.

One member of my group purchased Kharma Exquisite 1D (the best with Diamond tweeter), eight months ago. When they arrived the sound was congested and the drivers sounded like the crossover was at the wrong points. Everyone in our group visited his home over a period of about five months and there was absolutely NO bass.

Word was that about 500 hours the bass would show up and all would be well. We passed the 500 hour mark and on to 650 (plus) and still NO bass. The owner having spent the larger portion of 100K was on the phone to the distributor and the factory in Holland.

They sent us a spectrum analyzer and it too showed no bass.

Then mysteriously, week before last, at about 800 hours we had so much bass the speaker had to be moved to another spot in the room. The analyzer showed the increase so this is not a mind trick.

The speakers took almost seven months, the exact amount of time my Cryo treated Soundlab Ultimates required.

I was about to pull the plug on mine when they finally came into their own. I was so certain that something was wrong I ordered a completely new set of back plates to test against my own.

I honestly believe that the better the speaker, the worse it sounds when new, especially if cryogenics are involved. Wondering if there was a correlation, we called GTT audio and discovered the Kharma is COMPLETELY cryo treated at the factory, crossover and all.

This is extremely frustrating. After all the hard work and money we expect some instant gratification. In high end audio it seldom works that way and probably why sound at all these shows I've been covering is so BAD.

albertporter

Owner
Zaiks,

The VTL 750 sounded marvelous with the Soundlabs, in fact as well they ever performed. The Ultimates present a difficult load and the extra juice helped, particularly on dynamic passages.

If I had unlimited funds and factory support for repair, I would choose them or the ARC REF 600 MK III.

The Dali are a true bi-amp design in that they require four identical amps in gain and overall personality. The (provided) crossover is dual mono and dual power supply, requiring four amps to even operate.

I don't doubt that four 750's would do the job, but certainly the ribbon tweeter (1200 HZ and up) does not require 600 watts nor would it be the ideal amp (transparency wise) for dipole ribbons. Add to this, email exchanges between myself and VTL were not encouraging as to the prospect of matching the 750 and other amps in their line.

This and other issues with the VTL factory has resulted in my decision to discontinue all further research of this project with their products.

Jond,

Thank you for the compliments. I worked hard to hide all the acoustical treatment in my room. The best room is not an "alter to hi fi", but rather a comfortable room that happens to have a hi fi system in it. You accomplished this and I hope I have as well.

Tonight the Dali's broke through to another level. They sounded good enough that I quit complaining the second half of the night. For those of you that have not listened with me, that is progress. I have almost zero patience during break in and I always forget how disappointed I am during that period.

albertporter

Owner
Ralph has disclosed some of this here at Audiogon:

http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?aamps&1095818250&openfrom&38&4#38

The remaining news is new product development which I will allow Ralph to disclose when he's ready.

albertporter

Owner
Shventus, it sounded like Lars was opposed to electronic devices such as tone generators and noise burst devices. I don't think break in CD's such as Purist Audio's are a concern. Likely this is a safety issue for the eight foot dipole ribbons. Like Magneplanar, it's possible to damage it with enough power and abuse.

I have not heard Kansas but will visit a couple of software stores in the next few days and round up some intense music to put these through their paces. I think a new amp is in order to utilize the full impact of these software titles. The Dynaco's are inadequate, particularly in the bass.

Gregadd, funny you mention Atma-Sphere. I just hung up from a long conversation with Ralph not five minutes ago. Yours is a good suggestion and with what I just learned about the future plans at Atma-Sphere, these products are up for consideration again.

albertporter

Owner
Thank you Joe, as this evolution continues I will post new images. I may eventually post a new "Albert Porter system" so I can maintain a record of this old system and all the original photo's.

As it stands now I have three pairs of mono blocks in mind, just waiting to see how things shake out. My goal is to return my system to as enjoyable a state as it was with my modified Soundlab Ultimates.

If I can do that, I will be elated. It will be difficult but I hope not impossible.

The Dali Megalines are very efficient, so much so that I am considering four Cary SET's. If that is not sufficient there are push pull tube designs that should do the job.

Right now, with only 131 of the 500 (required) hours for break in, I am hearing faint signs of deep bass. I met Lars, the designer of these speakers while covering the High End Show in London. He explained that even with very demanding music (IE: 1812 Overture), that the 24 woofers were barely working. Break in time is increased dramatically because of this.

In spite of this, he advised no warble tones or artificially generated test tones for break in. I keep looking through my limited CD library for material to put on repeat that will do the job.

albertporter

Owner
System edited: Update to let everyone know what my new acoustic treatment looks like and that I have sold my Soundlab Ultimates. I am breaking in a new pair of Dali Megalines, currently powered by twin Dynaco Stereo 70's (so don't ask about sound yet). I am working on several amplifiers to try with these new speakers to see if they will make me happy.

albertporter

Owner
Not ready to post results, still testing. It's really difficult to change things when the sound was already where I wanted it.

albertporter

Owner
My first response was amazement. The gain in efficiency raised the dynamics and contrast through the entire musical spectrum. I expected an increase in volume but was not prepared for the improvement in performance. Odd, since I am running the VTL 750 reference where power is not an issue.

I am going some through serious changes in my system and will post the results after everything shakes out.

albertporter

Owner
Dale, frankly I am overwhelmed. It's much easier to respond to a question about acoustics than your kind words. I am pleased that record cleaner gift made the music better for you. That's reward enough for me.

I wish I could respond in a way that would let you know how much I appreciate your kind words.

Maybe travel will bring you to the D/FW area and we can share dinner and some tunes together.

albertporter

Owner
Michael, here is a link on the people who tested my room and designed my acoustic treatment.

http://www.rbdg.com/home/index.php

Russ is a long time friend from the audio business, back when I sold commercial sound reinforcement gear.

Application of the acoustic treatment was done by Advanced Environmental Concepts in Carrollton, TX.

Here is a link to the materials they use:
http://www.owenscorning.com/around/sound/acoustic.html

When complete, it looks exactly like "Whisper Walls" the link to images follows:

http://www.soundcontrol.com/whisper.htm

albertporter

Owner
Rick, the Bozak Concert Grand is a speaker I am proud to have owned. Like much of the classic gear built in the same era, it is a work of art to be appreciated.

The rubber coated metal (aluminum?) tweeters were so well damped, they would pass for soft dome, yet would play loud without break up. The crossover points and cabinet design caused the speaker to be "woolly" overall in presentation, very warm and lacking transparency.

That being said, If you long for that old time sound, complete with long fibre wool woofers, it is a perfect example of high technology for mid to late 1960's.

The best I ever had my pair play was with the accessory "array" bracket that fanned the tweeters into a half sphere, similar to the dispersion of my Soundlabs.

I went crazy and ran 16 tweeters :^), 8 in an array on the top of each cabinet and 8 inside the cabinet in the normal line arrangement.

Some people told me it was the best sound they ever heard. This was when I ran a Thorens TT with Ortofon arm and Ortofon MC cartridge and Macintosh preamp and Macintosh amps.

Memories are found, but my (just received) higher efficiency Soundlab U-1's are so far advanced from what was available in that day, I could never return.

albertporter

Owner
Any Audiogon member traveling this way only need phone before their visit. I have a wife and son so I can't guarantee an open spot, but will make every effort.

There is nothing like listening to music with people who share the passion regardless of the equipment involved. I have enough software that I should be able to please most visitors.

Nrchy, I can snag you some RR cleaner if you don't have access where you live.

albertporter

Owner
I know about the amps. Jim White and I have been discussing them for two years. I have a strong opinion about one of his tube choices. It will be interesting to see what he decides to do.

albertporter

Owner
Dennis, believe it or not, there is a great deal of performance gain in using a preamp with the Io. I tried the Io with volume controls and although it has enough gain to get the amps up to full volume, there is a lack of speed, dynamics and headroom.

This same test was run at another Audiogon members home where we auditioned the Manley Steelhead, then the Io. Both phono stages were compared with and without preamp and the two preamps were Audio Research Ref 2 MK 2, then the Aesthetix Callisto.

With both the Manley and Aesthetix phono stages the ARC and Aesthetix preamps were an improvement in dynamics, ease of presentation , headroom and contrast. Considering my friends system was Dynaudio Evidence Temptations, powered by ARC Ref 600 MK 2 and my system is Soundlabs with VTL's, I concluded that the preamp is valuable regardless of the rest of the gear.

albertporter

Owner
The Soundlab updates will provide more choices than ever. Possibilities include Atma-Sphere MA-1 Silver Edition, Atma-Sphere MA-2 (without the Zero). Stay with my VTL 750's in Triode (about 300 watts), go back to Wolcott Presence 220 or try the new Wolcott 400.

Until I get my new speakers I can only guess at the possibilities. Playing music with each is still the only way to determine what will be satisfactory long term.

albertporter

Owner
Max, the update will be available in about a month and will apply to the A-1, U-1 and M-1 immediately. I assume the M-3 and A-3 will follow.

Your friends A-3's (if that's what they are) are actually less efficient than A-1's. I always thought that was strange but has to do with diaphragm area.

Regardless, the update will help and should eliminate any need for the Zero autoformers. I always develop a "rash" at the thought of buying an OTL amp and then purchasing outboard transformers for them:^).

As to your question about load, Soundlabs impedance goes from about 3 ohms at 20K to about 30 ohms at 20 HZ. That and the fact they are capacitive, have typically made them a tough match for low to moderate power transistor gear. Transistor gear produces more power at low impedance and would lose most of it's push by the time it got to 18 to 30 ohms, right when the most power is required (for deep bass).

That being said, the prototype 'lab was at CES (unannounced) and was being powered with a 100 watt transistor amp. Those of us that know this speaker immediately knew something big had changed.

These Soundlab updates requires a complete rebuild or replacement of the cores, and that is why there has been no discussion about it from the factory. They kept this quiet until the tools were in place, the last of which arrived last Friday. My speakers will be built with it.

The new cores represent a stunning improvement in efficiency and with that comes increased dynamics, bass control and speed, all at lower distortion than ever.

albertporter

Owner
Thanks for doing this test Alex, it will be interesting to see if the Tele's work for you. A lot of tube swapping is about tonal balance, soundstage and such, so you may or may not like what they do in your system.

As for my amps, the VTL 750's were chosen by default. One of the guys in my group owned ARC Ref 600 MK 3 and I fell in love with them. At that time I was running Wolcott Presence 220 which sounded wonderful, but ran out of gas when the program material got hot and heavy.

Unfortunately the ARC's failed (with a loud report) and had to be repaired. I was not overly concerned until this happened another four times resulting in my losing interest in them.

Now with my interest wetted by the enormous power of the ARC, I went searching. Two good friends, both on the West coast, had been singing the praises of VTL for several years, so when the right opportunity came along I made the purchase. The VTL 750 will play as loud as I wish, greatly outperforming every other amp I have ever auditioned on Soundlabs (VOLUME wise).

Both Atma-Sphere MA-2 and Wolcott P-220 presented a wider, more transparent sound stage with lower distortion. Neither had the ultimate push, sound pressure level and contrast of the VTL 750.

Among the amps I've tested on Soundlabs are Tube Research GT400, Viva 572, Viva 845, Counterpoint SA 4, PSE mono blocks, Sonic Frontiers Mono blocks, Audio Matiere, Atma-Sphere MA 2, Wolcott Presence 220, Tenor's and others I'm likely forgetting.

The big news for Soundlab owners is the upgrade taking place that will forever change my tests. My new pair are being built and after I've broken them in, I will retest the Wolcott 220, VTL and Atma-Sphere.

As already mentioned, there is a new Wolcott 400 mono block being built on the old Presence 220 chassis. This new model has larger power supply, new bias and operating voltages, new Teflon insulated output transformers, runs 6550 output tubes and has modifications to the damping circuit. I have a pair delivered to a friend in Maryland and hope to get a report from him this weekend. He is running one year old Soundlab M-1's so it's a good test for current Soundlab's technology.

When the upgrades are commonly available, there will be a wealth of amplifier choices. No longer will users have to sacrifice or trade low distortion, high damping, transparency or bass control in order to get enough horsepower to fill the listening space.

albertporter

Owner
Max, got to agree with your assessment of Svetlana 6550's and EL 34's. I too love the Svetlana and (in general) all tube amps using the EL 34 output tube.

Zaikes and I do not have the exact same model VTL, so maybe the test will transfer and maybe not. If I have reason to order KT 88's for my stockpile or for friends in my group, no harm in trying them out. I would like to see if they provide the sound described by Zaikes.

Having said that, if I never saw performance beyond what I'm getting now with NOS drivers and Svetlana Winged C outputs, I'd be fine. My sound is excellent and I'm happy.

By the way, Wolcott has a new 400 watt 6550 version of the Presence 220 EL 34 based amp. Could be another option for us power hungry guys.

albertporter

Owner
I very much like the midrange of the Telefunken 12AT7. It has much the same personality and transparency that the Tele 12AX7 is famous for.

The Mullard is a bit darker, some may say richer, but In my amps the high frequencies of the Mullard are a bit too rolled off. Of course I'm running Svetlana 6550 outputs and you have the EH KT88's and from your description the KT88's have a bit more extension in the highs.

Could be that my Tele with 6550 is similar balance you've chosen with KT88 and Mullard. All this tube swapping and tuning is about getting a balance that pleases. I suspect many of us are after similar sound and have arrived there from various paths.

The offer is still good to ship Tele's. They weigh almost nothing and with bubble wrap will certainly survive the trip. Much less risk than your gracious offer to ship an entire set of KT88's.

albertporter

Owner
Zaiks, that is about the kindest offer anyone has ever made. I appreciate it, but will likely just buy some EH's so I can try a full set.

Have you ever tried Telefunken 12AT7's? I will return your gracious offer and mail you a matched pair to try. I also have Mullard Military, Brimars, Sylvania black plate, and Amperex. My favorites are the Telefunken and Brimars.

What have you been told is the ideal 6350? I'm using the original factory supplied tube which I believe is the same as you mentioned, a Sylvania.

albertporter

Owner
Zaiks I may try them. Certainly the EH KT 88 are cheap enough. I'm still accustomed to shopping for NOS Mullard EL 34 Xf2, so new Russian power tubes are a bargain by comparison.

You did not say which VTL your running. Is it the 450's? Have you tried various input tubes since your original tests? If your VTL uses the 12 AT7 / 6350 combo, we have another round of tube choice we could compare notes on.

I'm leaning heavily toward Telefunken in this position. Hearing some of the same traits that Aesthetix gear shows when their input stages are swapped out for Tele's.

I think I've come to a final decision on the Triode versus Tetrode mode. Triode was so magic during last nights music session, maintaining nearly equal feeling of power and headroom but preserving textures and tonal color that Tetrode seems to loose.

I still have all those feedback positions and several other 12AT7 tubes to try. I am hoping my new Soundlab cores arrive next week, allowing me to tune up the system with this new final version.

albertporter

Owner
Zaiks, I might be interested in the EH KT88's, how did they bias up when you put them in? What specific changes did they bring? Are you certain you were testing against genuine Svetlana 6550 tubes?

I ask because tubes marked with the Svetlana brand (released in the last few months) are actually re branded Sovtek tubes manufactured in the Reflector Saratov plant . This is how it will be from now on.

The tubes we knew, loved and trusted and referred to as Svetlana, built in St. Petersburg Russia, are now branded "Winged C." No longer available from New Sensor and many of the retailers that buy from New Sensor.

I have wholesale accounts with New Sensor and the new distributor for Winged C, called CE Distributors. It will be interesting to see what manufacturers like McIntosh and VTL do about supplies. Hope they test before ringing up New Sensor and ordering "Svetlana."

As for my input tubes. I have not experimented with the 6350 inputs but the 12 AT 7 position has seen Mullards, Brimars, Telefunkens and currently testing two types of NOS Sylvania's. The current set of Sylvania black plates I'm testing are so "wide open" it's a new experience, requiring some adjustment.

Each of these tubes has it's own personality and magic, so I am still undecided. I'm going to try other available feedback settings combined with Triode and Tetrode. Each is different and with changes coming in my new Soundlab cores, I am not able to decide everything just yet. Hope the new cores will arrive in the next week or two.

To complicate things further, I have the new heavy duty Systrum amp stands, untested as yet. The VTL 750's weigh so much I'm afraid to balance them on those tiny points until I have at least thee strong, sober music visitors one Tuesday night.

albertporter

Owner
Agree with your assignment. I do need to supply new photography.

As for phase two "cute friends." The only option is my wife. My son was cute when he was a baby but he is all grown up now.

I hope to have Richard Gray here next week to complete the work on my amps. Then I can clean up the space perfectly enough to do new images.

I wish there was a way to add additional images without sacrificing the progress shots. It would be nice to have both "before" and "after" views.

albertporter

Owner
Ed, So far I am pretty impressed with the VTL 750. I am still working on tubes to see what can be done to improve upper frequency transparency. I miss some of what the Wolcott Presence 220 did when running NOS Mullards. It's very difficult to get the EL 34 tube sound with 6550's, but I am going to try.

As far as listening together, I too am sorry you can't join us. Should travel ever bring you this way you are welcome to stop by.

albertporter

Owner
VTL 750 Ref replaced Wolcott 220. Sold Clear Image line conditioner and replaced Purist single ended cable for balanced between Walker turntable and Aesthetix Io.

albertporter

Owner
System edited: Images and text edited to reflect recent equipment upgrades.

albertporter

Owner
Funny you mention Wilson and Dynaudio, two cone speakers that I have great respect for. One of the guys in my audio group owns Watt Puppy's, the other had Dynaudio Evidence Temptations. The Dynaudio's were recently sold to make way for Kharma Exquisite 1D, arriving in the next few weeks.

I heard the Kharma 1D at CES 2003 and they were excellent. World class, but with retail hovering around $120,000.00, they are more than absolutely out of the question.

There are more great speakers available than ever in the history of audio. Cone speakers have evolved the most, with electrostatics such as the Soundlab Ultimate One still being my favorite.

Soundlabs present fewer compromises for dollars spent and the compromises are easy to accept. I can listen for hours on end and not be conscience that my speakers are the source of the music. Almost nonexistent distortion and perfect phase accuracy with rock solid integration without sign of crossover (single driver design) that delivers 26 Hz to beyond 28 Khz.

The sound is excellent in every seat in my room from five to thirty feet away, both seated and standing. An accomplishment generally limited to live music venues.

The one comment I hear about electrostatics is inability to play loud or do deep bass.

With my new amps I get 106 DB (plus) at 14 feet, louder than a prime seat at our Morton H. Meyerson Symphony Center downtown Dallas. I seldom listen above 85 DB, even with Rock music, so I have tremendous dynamics with headroom to spare.

Soundlab and I have been sharing tunes since 1989, when my son was only three years old. I've had dozens of opportunities to change speakers over the years, but realized time and again that other pieces in my system were holding back the Soundlabs. (Rather than the other way around). Hope yours make magic for you as well and thanks for the kind words.

albertporter

Owner
Jayctoy, if you or other Audiogon members have plans that bring you through Dallas / Ft. Worth area, let me know and we’ll set aside a time for some music.

My regular group meets every Tuesday night at 6:00 PM. We go to dinner and then come back and spin music until everyone hears their favorites. Sometime we audition new gear or do tube swaps, but mostly it’s about having a good time.

albertporter

Owner
There have been several discussions on this subject and I always advise people to go with long interconnect. In any case, the quality of the components and cabling greatly influence the end results.

It’s common for microphone cables to be long runs. Many are terminated in fifty, a hundred feet or even greater lengths. Much of the music discussed here at Audiogon was recorded under these conditions. Microphone’s have the advantage of balanced which improves noise rejection and If my amps were balanced, I would likely give that a shot.

As for speaker cables, it seems more difficult to maintain signal integrity of a high powered amplifier over such distances. No doubt as to which is the more economical.

For instance, Purist Audio (which I use exclusively) when you compare their best speaker cable against best interconnects, the speaker cable cost four times as much.

I choose long interconnect not to save money, but because I got the best performance that way. Many people in the audio community such as high end amp and speaker manufacturers have arrived at the same conclusion.

albertporter

Owner
Thank you sincerely Sol. Lets not forget that the artists that create the works of art are the only reason for this systems existence.

I agree with your comments about joy. Tuesday night, after everyone else had gone home, my son arrived late , having helped a school mate build a computer. He was hungry and ask me to choose music for us to listen to while he ate his late dinner.

I pulled Jethro Tull’s “Thick As A Brick,” Neil Young’s “Harvest” and Jimi Hendrix, “Axis.” When we were too tired to stay up any longer he quietly told me how lucky I was to have grown up with such a diversity of music.

When everything is working right, sharing with someone you care about is worth everything it cost in time and money. Music has a way of expressing things when words fail.

albertporter

Owner
A wonderful room treatment device. After installing, mine were covered with an acoustically transparent cloth. I get the room treatment with the appearance of painted sheet rock.

http://www.rpginc.com/

albertporter

Owner
V vrinc, a good question. Unfortunately my sweeties older sister is also spoken for.

On the subject of mates, It’s funny how priorities can differ. When we were home searching I told the real estate agent to not bother us with any home that did not have a really large living room.

On the other hand, Patti was scrutinizing the updated kitchen, back yard landscaping, swim pool and fireplace. Guess we were lucky to find a home with features we both liked.

Slipknot. Agree with your assessment of the Walker turntable. Last night was regular music night for our group. We spun LP’s until after 11:00 PM in spite of the fact that two of the guys had to get up before 6:30 this morning. When a turntable is making great music it’s just about impossible to keep track of time.

By the way, I’ve made some radical changes in my system recently and when it fully settles in, I‘ll update the info and add some new photo’s.

albertporter

Owner
System edited: Images updated.

albertporter

Owner
System edited: New Purist Audio prototype cables added to my system.

albertporter

Owner
TWL, if you bring that big dog of yours there may not be room on the sofa for anyone but you and him.

That could work out well for you. I play DJ the entire time, finding software that keeps your Rottweiler in a friendly mood :^)

albertporter

Owner
System edited: Added images including view through access door and corrected description of system.

albertporter

Owner
Soundlab replaced my back plates completely when I did the upgrade. New cores too, so I began from scratch and break in on Soundlabs are very slow.

Several of my regular visitors say my sound is the best it has ever been. Pretty good since the speakers probably need another two months to be 100%. After break in I have four mods to do to the power supplies and Purist has promised me a new power cable that is not available on the market yet. Supposed to be a small miracle for amps.

Instead of the "fly" I wish you could come sit down with us. It is a sincere offer, keep it in mind if travel brings you this way.

albertporter

Owner
Thanks for the kind words.

I must make time for photography of the new room. It's the same size and layout, but completely rebuilt from the foundation up.

albertporter

Owner
If it were possible for Joni to visit my home and play, I would be more than happy to post the outcome.

I've loved and enjoyed her music ever since the release of "Joni Mitchell / Song to a Seagull" in 1969.

albertporter

Owner
If my math is correct, considering an average of 40 minutes for both side of an LP, and spending eight hours a day, it would still require nearly two years.

That, assuming I would stop buying new music.

albertporter

Owner
Matchstikman, sorry I did not respond earlier. I've been setting up my new Soundlab Ultimates.

What do I listen to? To give you an idea, this week I've purchased the following new LP's.

"Burnin" , John Lee Hooker
"Free Form Patterns" , Lightnin' Hopkins
"Blood Money" , Tom Waits
"Are You Passionate?", Neil Young
"Steppin' Out," Red Garland
"Knives Out," Radiohead
"The Speed Of Love" , David Sancious
"Sarah-Dedicated To You," Carmen McRae
"New Favorite," Alison Krauss
"Agaetis Byrjun," Sigur Ros
"By The Way" , Red Hot Chili Peppers.

I own almost all the Blue Note Jazz records ever pressed, 18 of the Mosiac box sets of Jazz artists, and probably 125 ECM releases. I've collected rock since before the Beatles. I have all their LP's, the Doors, Hendrix, Santana, Jeff Beck, Clapton and all the Stones. Other rock titles include Elvis Costello, Dead Can Dance, Nirvana, Linda Rondstandt, Joni MItchell, Kate Bush, Tori Amos, Daniel Lanois, Pink Floyd and Roger Waters.

I have all the Classic Records re presses of RCA classical titles and many of Speaker Corners represses of the Euro Decca and London Classical titles. Also have most of the Concord (California) Jazz titles and have never passed up purchasing any of Fantasy's titles, which include Pablo, Contemporary, Galaxy and OBC.

All together I have about 6000 LP's, less than 200 CD's and maybe a dozen SACD.

albertporter

Owner
Regarding my post of 11-1-02.

Winner of The Absolute Sound Golden Ear Award.

The Absolute Sound   December 2002/January 2003 Issue Proscenium Gold Signature Turntable by Jonathan Valin
 
"This is a record player that will not only define the limits of a recording but the limits of your entire stereo system...I could fill the rest of this magazine with examples of what the Walker Proscenium Gold Signature playback system does better than any other record player...I wouldn't know how to criticize a device that is so much better than any other of its kind...a masterpiece."

http://www.walkeraudio.com/

albertporter

Owner
Gary, as for WAF. When Patti and I first met many years ago, she walked in and there stood a pair of JBL S7R vertical configuration.

For those who don't know this big JBL monitor, it has two 15" woofers, a LE85 / HL 91 compression horn midrange plus tweeter. It stands nearly twice the height of a Vandersteen 5, and four times as wide. After that moment, other speakers didn't look so large.

She understands how important music is to me and ignores the system unless a movie is cranked up and everyone sits down together to share the experience.

As for the Walker phono, I had the latest version some weeks ago, just before I upgraded from Aesthetix Io to Io Signature.

The Walker is extremely quite since it is solid state and is a compact design which would be wonderful, especially considering the Io is three boxes and takes up ten times the space.

Unfortunately, within a few days it was obvious there is no possible way for it to remain. Not only does it have insufficient gain for my Koetsu, its performance is so far below the original Aesthetix Io I returned it.

Add to that, the new Aesthetix Io Signature is considerably better than my original. There may never be anything to challenge it, much less displace it.

albertporter

Owner
As long as I'm discussing magic and reviews, I think all of you will be surprised at the recipient of the Absolute Sound's Golden Ear award and reviews that will likely appear January 2003.

The award may be handed out during CES in Vegas, as was the case when Soundlab received it a couple of years ago. I hope to be there again this time (funds permitting) to see the recipient take it in hand.

Unfortunately It's not Purist but it does represent a reference state of the art product that I am proud to be associated with.

albertporter

Owner
I have done work for Music Meter, Audioquest, Purist Audio, Synergistic Research, Tara Labs and several other companies.

At CES in Vegas years ago, I had just finished the new ads for Audioquest and had the most expensive and best the company offered EVERYWHERE in my system it could go. I was speaking to Fran and George Tice about their products when George stopped and gestured toward a stranger in the room. "Albert this is a fellow Texan who manufactures the Texas water cable."

I cringed and said (to myself ) Oh boy, a manufacturer from TEXAS. It must be a real winner (cynical).

Jim Aud extended his hand and held up his cable with the other hand. I took it and looked closely. Plastic tubing with air bubbles, giving away the fact that there WAS indeed fluid surrounding the inner workings.

After a long discussion I felt bad about my prejudice and truly admired Mr. Aud and his gentlemanly manner. He offered me the chance to hear the cable in hand and I took it home.

At that time I had a Versa Dynamics turntable with Audioquest between it and my Counterpoint SA 9. I removed the AQ and installed the Purist. This was during one of our Tuesday night sessions and we were prepared to hear a difference, and that the AQ would easily win.

Not only did the Purist defeat the AQ, the Purist we tested was the original Aqueous, selling for less than $200.00.

From that point I watched the company evolve. New cables, each building upon the last, each improvement sounding better than before.

I continued to test, I still did photography for Audioquest and at one time owning Tube Research, ran some FIM cable. I negotiated with others at CES each year, brought home models from other companies, but always wound up returning to Purist.

Friends of mine that are in the audio industry, including a former Fi magazine and current Absolute Sound reviewer never understood why I was so crazy about Purist.

A few months ago I arranged for them to get enough to wire a solid link of all Purist through their systems. Within two weeks they both sold off all their cable and replaced it completely with Purist Audio. This was purchased with their own funds, NOT a gift from the factory to bribe them.

My opinion is that it shares characteristics of several cables. Warm like much of the Cardas, almost as fast as Nordost, but very low distortion and with a totally black background. It has extra low capacitance and low resistance, making it ideal for my .02 MV output Koetsu to send signal through, and quiet and low loss enough to allow signal from my preamp to travel 11.5 meters under my floor to my mono amps.

My philosophy about Purist's wire technology? At least as good metallurgy as any wire manufacture, with a jacket and shielding that isolates the construction from several types of vibration and interference. This is (in my opinion) what sets it apart. There are many good cables with ultimate metals inside, but how to keep the whole thing from being acted upon and how to keep it from acting on the signal it is carrying?

That is the magic.

albertporter

Owner
Angela, I promise to try to make time for images of the new space after the current job in my studio is clear. I am working on a catalog that is near completion.

albertporter

Owner
Great response judit.

Remember that the run between my preamp and amps is a long one. Quality of that cable literally makes or breaks the entire system. You may not know I do photography for many high end audio manufactures. Often the photo samples are available for deals that are favorable for my system.

Another factor, my system began when I was a teenager and upgraded ever since. It has taken many years and hundreds of small purchases for me to have arrived where I am.

As for the outlets, I have several already and love them. This subject of them came up in a thread, some members contacted me about them and I responded.

It has grown into a monster since, but it will be a fun Audiogon project that I believe will make a lot of people happy.

albertporter

Owner
Remember the story about the cobbler who's children had no shoes?

albertporter

Owner
Avnut. The larger of the two Sound Anchors has the Walker Prologue base sitting directly on it. I followed Loyd Walker's instructions and used a lead disk and chunk of damper putty (supplied) at each corner.

The stand supporting the Io phono (in order top to bottom), Io phono stage, twelve small Iso Bearings, a two inch granite slab, four upside down mod squad feet, and Sound Anchor stand.

albertporter

Owner
That would be kinky wouldn't it?

It is supposed to be Whitney Houston's recording studio and Woody Allen's apartment.

albertporter

Owner
The walls with the rough cedar lumber were torn out to the bare studs, as were all the walls in the room.

Then the entire space was rebuilt using single sheets of 5/8" mahogany, two sheets of 5/8' sheetrock, single layers of 5/8" acoustic, finished with the rail system and cloth covering. The cloth is manufactured by Designtex of New York, and has tighter specifications than Guilford of Maine I had originally intended to use.

The biggest challenge was calculating where the finished wall would be after all the material was in place. The base boards, wall trim and corner mould had to be shimmed. All the electrical boxes had to be mounted on separate studs so they flushed even with the acoustic cloth. This was necessary for all lighting switches, electrical outlets, telephone receptacles, and the B&W in wall speakers.

In the image showing the RPG treatment the three PVC pipes are visible. These were constructed into the foundation and pass through the concrete and slate into the listening space. Clearly visible in that first row of slate, this is identical on both sides of the room.

When new interconnect is required, the old run may be used to pull the new run through. All the PVC runs are about 36 feet long. That is why I have the 11.5 meter run of Purist Dominus RLS listed as the interconnect between the Callisto and Wolcotts.

The other PVC runs provide a pathway for interconnect cables to surround sub woofers, DVD and DSS video feed, and Atmasphere amp driving the Vandersteen dialogue channel.

The wood doors were re hung to reduce vibration and refinished with the same color as the bookcase, ceiling beams and trim moldings.

Two parts of the project I am especially proud of are not obvious. The wall between the bookcase and turntable is shielded with copper plate behind the sheetrock and there is a channel that provide a path for interconnect cable. The nine foot balanced Dominus runs from the IO phono stage, goes behind the turntable and disappears into a hole in the door frame. It comes out inside the bookcase and plugs into the Callisto.

In addition, there is a solid core door accessible from the photo studio that opens into the rear of the bookcase. From there I can access tubes, electrical and do any cleaning of contacts or equipment without having to move anything ( and while standing up, thank goodness!).

The other point of pride is the floor construction beneath the speakers, turntable and phono stage. Constructed as a grid instead of the traditional eighteen to twenty four inch spaced studs. Once the one and a half inch laminated floor was liquid nailed and screwed to the grid, it felt like a slab foundation rather than pier and beam.

Another part of this project increased WAF. I took advantage of the old fireplace jutting into the room.

The RPG treatment is installed into the built up space provided by the fireplace. The framework was acoustically treated and then had the same rail system installed. The cloth on the walls installed on the face, providing the same appearance as the side walls.

The entire room appears as ultra smooth wall construction ( no texture at all ). Finished with paint and fabric attached directly to the sheetrock.

The people who did the acoustic work is AEC. They are currently working on NFL studio's, and completed the acoustic work for Sony CBS, Whitney Houston and Woody Allen's private NYC apartment (he wanted noise reduced).

The design followed the existing space, as the room dimensions could not be increased easily. Both sides of the room are load bearing walls. The wall that had the wood ( Old picture ) was originally the outside of the house. I designed my photo studio to go along that wall of the house, which wound up being seventeen feet by fifty four feet. The exterior brick is exposed on that whole wall of the photo studio.

The project began in August of 2001, and was promised to be complete no later than Thanksgiving. The last of the inside crew left three weeks ago, over five months late.

I then had to deal with the moving company and the sixty seven boxes of vinyl, plus my entire (factory boxed) stereo system and wrapped up furniture. I spent two weeks putting the software back in order, setting up the turntable, installing the new cores in my U-1 Soundlabs, and reinstalling my lighting.

The system has not had enough break in time, nor have I tweaked anything. I am still in shock at having furniture and music in the room after so long without.

I will probably be in a better mood here at Audiogon now than I can play my favorite tunes again.

albertporter

Owner
Angela, you got it.

Maxgain. In addition to the RPG panels that I just posted images of, I use six Tube Traps behind the speakers as well.

There is some form of acoustic treatment on every surface except the rear wall.

albertporter

Owner
System edited: Three new images added. First shows where floor to ceiling RPG diffusers are hidden in cavity behind right Soundlab U-1. Second show application of fiberglass damping on vertical walls of skylight. Third shows application of the rail system that holds the acoustic cloth in place. This is used to hide the RPG diffusers mentioned above, and all other wall and cavity treatments.

albertporter

Owner
I am overwhelmed by your compliments.

Problem now is that I fear some of you will be disappointed with the TOTALLY new look.

Every surface in the room has been changed by either the acoustic people, the foundation repair or the new construction materials.

I am under a lot of pressure to make the completed project image perfect. Maybe I should post some of the acoustic installation images to buy some time.

albertporter