This is a collection of equipment (note how I dont call it a system!), the purpose of which was for me to sample as much as possible prior to settling down to equipment I can use in a final room I am building with Rives. Needless to say, I ended up getting deeper and deeper in this, learning that reviews are typically falwed because (i) reviewers have specific motives, (ii) they dont generally have very good systems, and (iii) no system is perfect and therefore personal preferences matter a lot.
The room is by no means great but it is custom designed and measured. It works quite well, even though these speakers need more room to breathe.
Happy to answer questions about my experience with all this equipment, all of which is quite excellent in its own way. I have some on order which I will add when the time comes.
Other equipment I have owned include:
-Tenor 300hp
-MBL 9011 monos
-MBL 6010D preamp
-VTL 7.5 mk i and ii
-Audio Research Ref 3 preamp
-BAT 75se
-Other
UPDATE: Moved to new room, much more spacious and finally allowing me to sit within the prescribed distance for driver integration. Also, I cleaned up somewhat the amp list: I now use the Wavac 833 mkii (4 box) and for solid state the Class A Gryphon Colosseum Solos. Added to the preamps is the Soulution. All cables are Jorma Prime including an 8m length xlr. Power cords being changed all to Valhalla. Here you also see an attempt to test the continuum turntable through a wavac phono. The sound of the system has ameliorated appreciably and it is now starting to be a system after all. Very happy with it.
I can second Flg2001 opinion about Viva electronics, I am a very hapy owner of Linea XP preamp is the quietest preamp I've heard with balanced neutral and dynamic sound and mids to die for.
I also listen very often Solista mkII with amorphous transformers and I am very impressed. If Solista mkII could give the 117dbs my Hansens could provide I would have it on my rack in no time.
For the moment I can only dream about the Viva NEW monoblocks.
The Vivas are more musical, fleshed-out and more life-like (particulary with voices and midband instruments) than the Lamm/MR combo I had.
With just 28 watts per channel it drives my Giarneris very well, no hint of clipping or saturation, they lack the linearity and both extremes resolution of the later, but the reproduction of most material (particulary Jazz and Ensambles) is captivating.
I understand that the pre/power combination from Viva is even more dynamic and textured, as well as the inclusion of the Fono preamp from them which just received great acolades from the press.
Michael - a brief note to let you know I changed my Lamm amp for a Viva Solista integrated to drive the Guarneris... Great amp indeed!, I was wondering if you have had the chance to listen to them....
Kevin, this will sound less sophisticated than maybe you were hoping for! We had made these for my previous room. When we moved them to this new room, we tried to turn them around. What you are looking at is the back of the absorbers. Although they still absorb, they do less of that and in this room that works best. On the sides I have primarily diffusers. The ceiling is not treated. The old ceiling had some diffusers and also absorption. All this is at various frequencies and we did experiment a fair amount (with our ears and measurements) to get to the conclusion. I find it quite interesting how materially they affect the room. Especially interesting is the diffusion, whereby moving it around or changing its direction has audible results to size and location of soundstage. I am in the process of building a house that has a Rives designed room so we ll see if that improves matters. My speakers do need a lot of room to sing and for their drivers to integrate. Note that all this is custom made, ie much cheaper than the very expensive branded pieces. Room treatment, room design etc is the most important element as far as I am concerned so you are right to focus on it. It is the most active and important instrument in your playback system.
I think your investment in and wise choice of components speaks for itself - congrats on such a fine looking system.
Can you tell me about the room and the acoustical treatments as that interests me? Front wall looks to have some QRD diffusion mid-wall but what's on either side of it with the circular holes and then what's outside of those? what's on the side walls, ceiling and back wall which there is no picture of?
Thanks Argyro, I am trying to build a smaller system for a smaller apartment actually but will certainly look out for them. Playing around with the magico mini and now the Dartzeel integrated.
Vhiner, I think you did strike the right balance. At the same time, I like the passion around some of these posts. I was caught up in such a debate with Valin on his Technical Brain blog (re the magico M6) but unfortunately the blog was not posting my responses, or posting them selectively. I think people are very sensitive to the snake oil potential of audiophilia and so can react accordingly. Just part of the noise we all need to clear to get to the music!
I d be willing to sponsor a blog where we get Classicjazz to debate with Sonicbeauty various topics, audio-related or not!!!
I'll leave the heavy lifting to wordsmiths like classicjazz (with whom I wholeheartedly agree) but I would like to comment here that I love Mihalis' thread because it makes an important contribution to the pool of knowledge and experience that I need when considering what equipment I might want to audition. Am I a sitting duck? Perhaps, but I'm a relatively smart bird and don't fly with the flock. Nor, however, do I trust my own very subjective and limited experience as the one true test of what I should try next. I listen to equipment (lots);I listen to friends; I read reviews; and I puruse threads like this one. If the result, as Mihalis suggests, is sometimes extraordinary, then the process is sound. I love this hobby and many (thought not all) of its adherents as well as the professionals who make it possible. There are those who are deluded and deceptive, but I'm pretty confident I am not an easy mark. Could I hear the difference between a $1,000 power cord and stock wire while wearing a blindfold? I have. Can I be fooled by my own expectations? Undoubtedly. That's why I and many others rely on a variety of devices to help us find something approaching the "absolute sound."
Sonicbeauty, you seem to continue firmly with your belief that you can extrapolate from little information to conclude on a person and then even a whole group of people. I believe the previous post addressed that quite well. One more point though: you are missing a major input. Is the resulting system achieving the goal? Has the extraordinary time and effort invested in the system resulted in an extraordinary result? The answer to that is paramount before labeling people as sitting duck consumers.
This is like building a house. While you are building it you are making a big effort to get it right. At least I do. You make sure your living room doesnt produce echo (=audio) so that when you sit with your friends later you can facilitate a cosy conversation (=music.) You seek a special paint for your child's room on the basis of certain characteristics (=audio) so that you can watch her paint on it as she grows up (=music.) And so on. I agree that there are diminishing returns and the more one goes up the curve the more the cost and energy expended is not rewarded accordingly. But getting something right upfront and putting in the hours is a long tested good practice.
As for reviews, it is a little bit of everything. The "sport" is very subjective and therefore magazines and "experts" can operate somewhat unchecked. Even hard measurements are in question since the link between them and subjective performance is not very solid. Reviews dont account for how the room and your specific electrical signal interact with the equipment. Reviewers need to write something exciting and as such have used the full vocabulary available to them to exaggerate. And then, the manufacturer produces an "upgrade" and what should they say? Take a look at Stereophile's review of the VTL 7.5 II, where they said something like: the previous one was perfect and this one is even more perfect (I think they said that verbatim.) Then is the question of competence: most reviewers are of limited experience, with limited systems, with limited time. And of course there are allegiances with the industry, from the obvious advertising income to the purchase of demo equipments for discounts etc. The result is that you cant generally count on these reviews. You can however learn from them, some information is good, some reviewers are more objective, some reviewers may have similar taste to yours.
But consider this: if you think you can extrapolate so much on one person just because you read their post on audiogon, a reviewer can boldly assert they know everything about a piece of equipment just because they had it in their room for a month!
I am also skeptical of professional reviews, to the point where I believe that nothing is written without a previously-approved commercial agenda, usually proportional to a manufacturers volume of advertizing budget, or interest regarding that manufacturers efforts in this competitive market. I also happen to work with ideas for a living and this sometimes with a direct link to the audio industry though not the major part of my activities. You might say that my work does involve the interpretation, (not judgment), of individual and sociological (groups) behaviors of consumers in the context of purchasing luxury goods, whether they are upscale sports equipment, photography gear or any other type of product including high-end audio. A lot of money is either invested or wasted by companies on their ability or disability to try and get a meaningful interpretation of customer behavior. Of course, there is always a strong subjective flavor to this, as it is quite a challenge to know the REAL motives behind consumer choices and actions. But a lot can be determined by the actions (not thoughts) and the resulting choices a consumer makes especially if it is shared in a forum for all to see. Now I do stand behind what I have written so far, and I made the effort to do my best to disconnect between my work and my personal audio enthusiast audiophile profile the only one that should matter anyway when responding to forums (unless one is actively making a living in this industry, which I am certainly not). But it is like a wine taster in a certain way. Once he has gathered a certain amount of experience (like tasting and evaluating hundreds of wines), the interpretation process no longer takes much time, as within seconds of tasting, he will be able to identify many things such as provenance and characteristics of that wine. I feel that there are a few (just a few) similarities with this audio hobby. Many audio-consumers strive to be different with their choices, and strive for exclusivity and recognition from their peers in this hobby. This creates a pretty predictable code of conduct and behavioral pattern that makes the consumer almost like a sitting duck and an easy prey. Audio manufacturers know this of course, and the audio magazines both printed and on-line exploit this commercially and why not, it is their reason for being. I am no different from anyone here regarding the audio experience, but I did recognize a pattern in my own choices and mostly a pattern years ago as to where all of this was leading to (and especially the monetary costs and social costs to it), and I didnt like that place, so I made the resulting choices that were beneficial for me, but it may not be beneficial to others. But thats the fun of audio forums is it not? Sharing and commenting on what people write about (and maybe hoping to help along the way even if it may not be perceived as such from the surface) and in doing so exposing yourself to the two-way-street resulting comments from others and this is fair game if you asked me. Enough rambling back to the music!
Indeed I am not an audio reviewer, have never been and have no desire to be one. In fact, I am rather skeptical of professional reviews for a variety reasons, not germane here. I do work with ideas for a living, though and as is betrayed by my elocution, am interested in information, communication and the manner in which ideas are conveyed and transmitted (as well as the provenance apparent and proposed, behind speakers).
Commentary that is pointed invites response, akin to your observation that if one cannot stand the heat, remove oneself from the kitchen. I do not think anyone here is seeking some fact as fact, as might be the case in some court of law. My point is that you make strong assertions as to character and implicitly position your view as insight into the motives of another on the basis of some simple rumination of one's purchases, trials and tribulations in audio.
It is true that this is a public forum but the uptake of content is a choice and the decision to share may nor may not reveal an interior predilection to exhibitionism or flaunting and besides, what is exhibition without the voyeur? Indeed, a conundrum.
To others tracking this thread, sorry for the digression.
Classicjazz ''this is a hobby not a debate''...hum, I think that your manifesto is clearly in the direction of a debate, and if I may say so, you might be looking way too deep in the roots of whatever link you are trying to hold on to here, Again, this is a public forum, not a court of law where people's lives are scrutinized, and commentaries are only that, commentaries in response to one's display of his audio experiences. With such a refined use of complicated words to define simple matters, it makes me wonder if you are actually an audio reviewer?
I am not sure I understand the deal with the ad hominem attacks on Mihalis. Must we use solely a utilitarian criterion to evaluate the interest another person has in his hobby? Perhaps for some, audio possesses intrinsic value and is an outlet for years of work and 100 hour work weeks. The point is we don't know.
With respect to insinuating that Mihalis's posts are a sign of the larger hobby at large, I would beg to differ. I'd ask that you learn a little about logical argument, inference v. deductive reasoning, empirical evidence and the substantive ability to generalize from limited samples. The danger is convincing oneself that one knows everything about a person based on what one reads. Perhaps one knows nothing at all. I personally would pause and take a step back; the object of inquiry is often a reflection of ones own paradigm of analysis and reflects the biases, conscious or not of one's cognitive-emotional framework.
How exactly do we evaluate enjoyment? These things are tied into our cognition, the neural networks that fire the imagination, life experience, personality and a list of other phenomena that constitute our social being. The capacity to express oneself in a particular forum only reveals that the person is engaged with the given issue but says nothing about interests in other areas. I know of people who lead full lives in many arenas of life, from family and friends to profession, service, charity and health. Some have climbed the corporate ladder, others are artists. To live well, whether idly or in full throttle, is the goal.
Take a converse interpretation. Perhaps one finds wonderful self-fulfillment in audio, music and its reproduction. Would we not then say that to have found a path that makes one happy is a good thing? That being committed to one hobby and striving to realize some perfect system (as defined in an Aristotelian way) is actually a certain kind of telos (and one that happily correlates with an existential becoming)?
It is interesting this thing called social existence. What is a life worth? Smiles and memories? There is no need to justify ones life; this is a hobby not a debate on the merits of some or other political economic theory, justice, or system of fair or unfair social distribution.
I agree with Roccoriley, Mihalis is both informative and entertaining, and Audiogon is a great place to voice one's opinion in this free forum. I also wish for him to ''keep it up'' as you have to admit he knows a lot about audio.
Mihalis..your statement: 'In the same way that I dont derive conclusions about your person from your silly name, I would want you to offer me and the other audiophiles the courtesy of limiting your statements to the message, not the messenger.''
I do not wish for you to take offence, and well, if you feel that the ''sonicbeauty'' moniker is silly, (I admit it is not aimed at the overly serious audiophile, you know, the type that doesnt smile much) well, you are entitled to your opinion!
And this is precisely my point here. You choose to post on this ''very'' for-everyone-to-see-forum your audiophile experience and resulting choices. Contrary to what you may beleive, these experiences speak volumes about certain behaviours and ways of this ''audiophile'' hobby. My comments are not meant to be negative. If you read my post attentively you will notice that I wrote ''which is ok if the shoe fits'', meaning just that, if it makes your motor run, all the better for you!
When you mention that as for liking equipment OVER music. You dont know me and so your conclusions could be (and are) completely off. You are completely right! I may be completely off. My aim is not to be right, I am just sharing my opinion of what I think based on what I have seen and am reading. Its just an opinion if the hat doesnt fit dont wear it but if you cant stand the heat sorry, better get out of the kitchen! This is an honest forum, where real people express real opinions. Why would my opinion be less important than yours? Because I do not own a castles worth of audio gear? (I used to by the way, not of the same magnitude as yours but not too shabby and obscenely expensive too).
But one thing I feel you need to accept is that posting opinions is a two way street. If you do not wish for responses (good and bad) just don't post anything. But if you do, getting feedback is part of the game. And this may include whatever clues to personal choices your photos may inspire.
By wondering who else in a household will benefit from such a lavish and expensive system (and the monetary costs and human costs associated with it) I was merely pointing to a generalized truth about typical audiophiles who sometimes are the only one to enjoy the ''air'' around a saxophone solo recorded at the back of the soundstage, and heard from row 22 in your listening room (or row 6 depending on your cables and whatever gizmo, Ive been there).
I totally beleive you when you say that everyone including kids enjoy your great system. Do they still enjoy it with a rendition of a Mahler symphony? Or would they enjoy it just as much on a NAD system (how about one in their own room!)but with their favorite music? It's all subjective, and sometimes we use this argument (that it benefits everyone in the house) to justify our spendings, when in reality we really don't need to go all out...for the other ones in the room that is. The point is that of course many of us DO want to go all out with this audio stuff, as they are big-boy toys for many - but it is rarely the case for the rest of the family, especially the children - they like quality too, they just have a different way of expressing it and consuming it. For many, take away their iPod and give them a turntable instead along with cost-no-object electronics, and STILL, that might drive them out of this hobby fast, no matter how good the sound is. So, its nothing personal, (but then you express your personality by sharing your audio ways) your experience does reveal a certain extreme that I wanted to express.
You also mention that In terms of absurd money spending, that is a matter of your economic position and opinion. I also agree, but not entirely. It could mean that someone has the means to buy whatever toys they want and it is like spending pocket money. Those may be in it for gear lust and yes... because of their love of music of course, although I have rarely met this kind on Audio forums. Many music lovers (at least the ones I know) will invest a lot in purchasing music an maybe 6-7 components max and keep them. Many gear lovers are endless repeat-purchasers of gear and play the same 6-7 cd's...or tracks! (hint:why do you think that out of 13 A'gon forums, only one is dedicated only to music?)Nothing wrong with this, just as there's nothing wrong in drooling over cameras or sailboats, but let's call a cat a cat will you?
It may also mean that someone is putting everything in his hobby, and makes it a top priority (I am not saying this is bad, just saying it wouldnt be MY choice). It could also mean ones ability to get in debt or to borrow money. So I guess I should take your its a matter of economic position statement the same as flexing your wallet in saying I can afford this, heres proof. Nothing wrong with it in fact, I would probably get into a kilobuck system before getting into a $ 300,00 painting or Maybach.
So, your system and post brought back some memories when I admit to having been in love with music (I still am today) but even more with the gear, as the gear part took over big-time and I had to let go as there was no end to this. My first serious component was a pair of $ 15,000 speakers. That was the start of it. (see my review here! http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?rspkr&1032833205 )It's still there after all those years.
I eventually doubled that amount in a preamp and an amp alone then a high-end (very high-end) turntable, then cables the price of 20 evening outs at the local symphony and dinner (for two).
Then I did a foolish thing, I sold it all! This is no joke; this is what I got in return:
Huge Coleman fold-down tent toured the USA & Canada for 7 years with it with our two kids! Wonderfull memories.
A Martin guitar for my son (my idea of live music) no system can reproduce this.
One for myself, although not a D-series but an OM size (concert size)
A nice Yamaha violin for my daughter (she took 5 years of wonderful classes).
Trip to Paris (for the four of us) with a couple of live concerts and good food
Trip to Italy (for the four of us) with an Opera concert.
And (almost forgot) also, a mundane Cayin A-88T integrated with Sonus Faber speakers and Rega cd player,hardly drool-worthy units, because, I still love music just as much (but not quite as much as playing guitar or hearing a live instrument in my living room, even if not played to perfection).
This does not make me any better or worse. I actually LOST MONEY! on this foolish spending, contrary to savvy purchases of blue chip audio gear, by savvy buyers and sellers. Somehow, I feel that I am richer for it after all. But thats just me.
Now the kids (in their early twenties) no longer follow on camping trips with the ''air-conditioning-equiped'' Coleman so we sold that that was a sad day ending some incredible memories, but there are other, different ones to come... now if I can just find that ad again for that nice Audio Research amp I skipped over the other day....
Thanks again for bringing back so good memories, nothing personal !
As for my ''silly'', well, can't please 'em all I guess!
Jason, no, the ones you see are the mkii version which are one up from the v1.3 but below the very big ones (which I assume sound even better(?) Great amps, a fair amount of power for SETs but of course cant drive well very tough speakers. But they should drive the Fat Boys like crazy.
Hi Michael Have you settled on the WAVAC HE 833 V.1.3 now as you amplifiers of choice after all the trials. I would have loved to have tried them on my Fat Boy horns. Thanks Jason.
Hba, I should have added that the Diablo sounds more like the Antilleon than the Colosseums. The smaller integrated they just came up with is more like a colosseum family piece of equipment. That is only a broad statement as the detail of the sound, the resolution etc of the Diablo is superior and therefore it is the better integrated. Not to mention it is more powerful. I hope this helps in making your choices.
Hba, I think moving to the Diablo is a great option and you will greatly enjoy its sound. I have been very surprised by how close it gets to the bigger stuff and its driving power is a welcome addition to that. I will be auditioning the Dartzeel and maybe the ASR Emitter at home also and I ll report.
I agree your system is good, more than good. You seem to have selected very interesting equipment carefully.
Regarding the mikado reference which I had at home, my audition did not support claims for it being a top contender. I compare it to transports from Weiss, Accuphase and DCS, and their DACs. Also from EMM. I found them all to be superior to the mikado in more than one ways. This could be specific to my audition but I didnt find that player to be top notch. Also, I am now completely out of transports and listen only to vinyl and cd/high res audio from DACs through the computer (DCS or Weiss.) I find that to be the way of the future so I frankly dont see the point in paying money for CD transports. If you have a big collection, rip it and use the money to buy the best DAC you can afford that has upgradeability and will allow you to use the multitude and very economical options for front end that are being created every day. I use my mac with amarra into usb dacs all the time and I find it funny how close it gets to the Continuum which costs just a tad more than the computer. I also plan to convert music from vinyl to digital so that I can access my collection more fully.
