Matt, yes, the pair of darTZeel stereo amps are staying. the darTZeel preamp is a preproduction version; which only has the BNC 'zeel' output connection operational at this time; so i am not able to use RCA or XLR connections to connect the Tenor amps. as a result i cannot compare the Tenor amps to the darTZeel amps when using the darTZeel preamp.

i would expect that the darTZeel preamp will be pretty damn good with any sort of cable interface and about any amps; but at this point i'm just giving a SWAG.

i will be selling the Tenor Hybrid 300's at some point. i hope to still have them when my new 'production' version of the dart pre arrives so i can compare them with normal cables to the dart amps; but i'm not sure the timing for that will allow that to happen.

in the past i did try the Tenors with an ART II, but personally i preferred the Placette RVC. the ART II sounded great with the Tenors; as did quite a few other active pre's.

as i understand it; the Tenors were voiced on resistive based passive pre's and i've always preferred both the Tenor OTL's and Hybrids that way. some others liked a little more of a 'tube' influence; it is just a matter of personal preference....my feeling is always that most preamps add something; i try to have a system that is best left alone; the Placette has always done that best (until the dart).

some other preamps i have tried on the Tenor hybrids include; CTC Blowtorch, Lamm L2, and the Aesthetix Calypso.....all of which worked well (but i still preferred the Placette).

i also compared a number of other preamps to the Placette when i had my Tenor OTL's including a few other passives.

yes, i will be selling the Jena Labs passive switchbox and the Placette RVC. i have promised 'first shot' to someone; if they don't take them i'll let you know.

i would expect the Tenor Hybrid 150's to be just fine on the Midi Exqusites. i loved the synergy between the Tenor Hybrid 300's and the Midi Exquistes in my big (29' x 21' x 11') room. i definitely preferred the Tenors to the darTZeel on the Midi Exquisites particularly with the Placette passive. the dart and the Placette had some impedence issues which reduced the dynamic capacity of the dart. the big Tenors had a great dynamic grip and 'jump' factor. i assume the 150's would be similar in a more normal sized room. the Diamond tweeter on the Midi Exqusite can sound prominent with anything but the most natural amps; the Tenors were a great match.

mikelavigne November 16, 2005 04:21

hi Oleg; i use to own the Levinson #37 and #360S which i liked alot. i then went on to the Linn CD-12 for redbook and the Marantz SA-1 for SACD. the CD-12 is still one of the better Redbook players. then i went to the emmlabs.

originally i had the modified Philips SACD 1000 transport; but last year i upgraded to the new CDSD transport. up through a year ago i had most of the various other SOTA digital players and DAC's in my room for comparison and was quite confident that the emmlabs was best at CD and SACD.

in the last year (as i have been working on new amps, preamps and speakers...as well as sorting out my room) i have not done many comparisons with other digital players so i am not one who can really say what is best at this time. i have only heard the competition at shows and not in my room where i can make clear comparisons. i have heard nothing out there that improves on what i hear from the emmlabs in my room; but my viewpoint is provisional at best since system context at shows is so varible.

i have compared the emmlabs directly to the 5-box Esoteric in my room; i much preferred the emmlabs on both CD and SACD. i have not spent time with the Ayre. IMHO the Linn CD-12 outperforms the Linn Unidisc in Redbook; and i know that the emmlabs with the CDSD transport is quite a bit better than the CD-12. i'm just not a DCS fan personally; let's say a matter of taste.

i don't know if i answered your question or not. in general; i prefer to avoid the whole 'fix it with tubes' approach to digital design; i prefer the emmlabs approach of conversion of PCM to DSD as most life-like; especially the way Ed Meitner does it.

there are others out there that have done more recent comparisons of current SOTA machines. the one thing a do have is a reference of my turntable performance; the emmlabs sounds more like that than any digital i have heard.

mikelavigne November 16, 2005 01:45

Hi Mike

My name is Oleg and I would like to ask your opinion. For my digital I use Levinson 390s. I love it. I used to also have a Sony XA777ES for my SACD playback and sold it to purchase the Ayre C-5xe which I hoped would replace my Levinson for great CD + SACD playback. I found my Levinson blew away the Ayre for CD and I got rid of the Ayre. I do not want to have 2 digital sources. You own the combo from EMM Labs. Have you compared this combo to other Digital drives that play both CD and SACD??? What is your educated opinion on this?
Thank you in advance for your response.
Oleg

[email protected] November 16, 2005 00:16

So I would assume the DarTZeels are staying? Did you happen to try the Tenor amps with the DarT pre-amp? And if you are planning on selling the Jena Labs Passive and Placette RVC let me know as I may be interested. Did you happen to ever try the Tenor's with the C.J. ACT 2 or one of their older Reference Pre-amps?

What pre-amps have you tried with the Tenors?

I am under the working assumption that a single 150 HPs Tenor stereo amp will have no problem with the Midi Exquisite's should they ever happen to grace my listening room???

So are you done now??? :-)

-Matt

mattnshilp November 15, 2005 17:46

hi Matt; yes, my Tenor 300 watt hybrid monoblocks were upgraded by the 'Tenor Guys' in May. i had not had any issues with my Tenors; but prior to upgrade they were not as stable as i would have liked. since the upgrade; they are 'rock-solid' and they sound a little better to my ears.

the Tenors have a unique combination of detail, naturalness and sense of dynamic grip; without either a 'tube' or 'solid state' sound. they have that Tenor 'fire' and clarity in the mids.

i would expect you to enjoy the Tenor 150's.

i wish i could afford to keep both the Tenors and the pair of darTZeels.

mikelavigne November 15, 2005 05:03

Immensely overall. Thank you.

I wasn't really asking for flavor or opinions on the Lamm, Tenor, etc.; just stating that they all have excellent reputations and I am intrigued by them - especially the hybrid design. But your input is always appreciated.

I have spoken further with the gentlemen at RIVES and they have experience with the Firebirds, so I'm good to go.

I have just secured a Tenor 150 HPs for an amazing price and am having it sent to the guys at Tenor (or what's left of them) to have it fully upgraded and revised to current (more reliable) specs. Do your 300 mono's have this new "upgrade" so they don't blow up? :-)

I'll add more later, but thanks again!

-Matt

mattnshilp November 10, 2005 18:20

hi Matt; sorry for the delay in my response, i am waay behind on e-mails and such and this damn system DEMANDS my full concentration.

you do have lots of nice amplifier 'kit' around. i would think that the Talon Firebird Diamonds would sound pretty good with any of the amps you have let alone the ones you are considering. i have not actually heard the ASR amps other than at the RMAF; where the room they were in was not favorable to any of the gear....so impossible for me to have a sense of them.

you present many levels of issues; with each interconnected.

maybe speakers first. considering your current and likely future space; either the Talon Diamond or Kharma Midi Exquisite would work well in those spaces. i have heard the Talon Diamaonds but not in a controlled enough environment to be very helpful with specific feedback. if i were to give a general statement it would be that i am more confident in the performance of the lower priced Talons than the Firebird Diamonds. they may be well worth the money but i just don't know enough to comment.

however good the Talons are; the Kharma Midi Exquisite's are as good a speaker as you can purchase at ANY price for a medium to small room. i had these in my room last spring for 4 months on the Tenor 300 watt hybrids and the darTZeel.

they don't extend much below 30hz but they are seamless and alive sounding. the Midi Exquistes demand the very best amps as the diamond tweeter can sound 'prominent' with an amp that is not totally natural sounding. in addition; the mid-range is very revealing......an amp that has any tendancey to sound 'tubey' will be revealed as just that by the Midi Exqusites.

the Midi Exqusites do benefit from some power in a medium sized room but are fine with moderate powered tube amps. for the small scale music that you prefer most any of the amps you mention would sound special with the Midis.

as far as how Lamms, Tenors and darTZeels sound; there are lots of personal viewpoints to choose from.

these are three versions of amplifier heaven; personally; i prefer the darTZeel and Tenor as more alive sounding than the Lamm in general.....but that is not a universally held opinion.

the Tenor Hybrids (300 watt) have more dynamic 'kick' than the darTZeel although with the new darTZeel preamp and in vertical bi-amp configuration; the dart amps have equal dynamics to the Tenors. the Tenor has a slight amount of tube flavor; but only a slight amount. the Tenor is actually very neutral and detailed. the darTZeel has this wonderful naturalness, continuousness and transparency that is unique.

the darTZeel is more sensitive to it's environment; it must be matched to a pre and speakers that work correctly; whereas the Tenors are 'plug and play' pretty much.

i will try to comment further later. i hope this helps.

mikelavigne November 10, 2005 05:37

I'm still playing around with my ASR Emitter I Exclusive but so far I am very impressed. I have never heard anything else like it from a solid state amplifier. And the pre-amp is dead quiet (thanks to it's battery supply). Yes, the amplifier section has a separate power supply, not battery driven.

I have heard neither the Lamm nor Tenor hybrids, which both intrigue me greatly. As I said, I'm currently playing around with a very "tube" sounding tube amp, the Vac Ren 70/70. I would say the ASR is definitely more versatile, but what the Vac 70/70 does well, it does REALLY well. You just want to melt and die with vocals and chamber music. You know that moment when your muscles go limp and you just ooze into your seat, that's what the Vac can do at times.

I am waiting until I get my new speakers to make any keeper decisions though. And I know that a few more amps will pass my speakers before I'm done...

Since the new Talon Firebird's have a crossover design that now encourages lower powered amps (Mike of Talon is powering his with a 50WPC Wavac MD-805) I am thinking that the 150 WPC stereo Tenor Hybrid may be more then enough for my needs; especially with a smallish room. And I am always thinking about those Kharma Midi Exquisites (one day...). Mike powered 'em with his 300 WPC mono-blocks, but I don't know if they truly needed the extra juice. ANy opinions on less power for the Midi Exquisite's Mike?

mattnshilp November 07, 2005 17:17

Hi Mike,

The ASR's optional battery pack powers only the input stage of the amp. So it is a bit different from the battery-powered amps seen in the past.

It would be great to know what the ASR is capable of doing in your awesome system.

njkoh November 07, 2005 15:48

Referring to Mike's earlier comment on ASR (though perhaps unintended), I think the battery power is for the line stage of the amp, not the power amp section. Mattnshilp can clarify? One thing that confuses me on the ASR is that is has evolved over the yrs, so its a bit difficult to understand which version everyone is talking about at times! Never tried it myself. I will be investigating amp upgrades over Dec-Jan (too busy w/ work now) and from reviews, feedback and design, it seems both NHB and ASR (not just because HP's commentary by the way!) are audtion musts.

henryhk November 07, 2005 04:27

Hi Mike,

I've changed my system a bit since then and have a few different things in my current listening room that I'm playing with.

I am currently running a pair of M.L. Summit's until my Talon Firebird Diamond's arrive. I currently have a bunch of different equipment including a Hovland HP100, BAT Vk-60 monoblocks, Vac Rennasaince 70/70 300B push-pull amp and the ASR Emitter I Exclusive.

I'm not doing anything with my current digital source until EVERYTING else is done, then I'll likely go with all Emmlabs. But for now my Trivista is doing just fine.

Source cables for the CD player are Acoustic Zen Silver Ref. II single ended and running Audience AU24 single ended from the Hovland to the Bat's (or the Vac). Also using AU24 speaker wire right now. I'm also using the ASR as it is designed, as an integrated. Phono stage is built into the Hovland, so I'm running the tape out of the Hovland into the ASR (when I'm using the ASR).

I won't make any final decisions on which equipment will stay and go until the Firebird's arrive. Then I can start working further on cables and wires (very interested in the Valhalla's). I am using the Audience Adept Response for power conditioning and it works very nicely.

Now at least your updated on what I'm currently running.

Shoot me an E-mail and we can chat about the room, as that is my next big project. But since the house won't be done for about 2 years between architectural and buildout (sigh) I've got plenty of time to play around with my current equipment; and maybe some new stuff! :-)

To be honest, my short list of equipment I still want to hear is getting shorter and shorter: Wavac, Tenor 150 Hybrid, DarTZeel, Vac Phi Integrated, C.J. Act 2 from an amp/pre-amp category and I will eventually borrow or buy a pair of Kharma Midi Exclusive's with it's matching sub to compare to the Talon's. Maybe consider a pair of those Schweikert's as well.

I would prefer the room be in the attic. The basement will be filled with Theater, closets, storage, exercise room, game room, bar area and party area.

My problem is, that we haven't sat down with the builder/architect (the house is a semi-custom design) to see truly what I can do in the attic. I know I can have a guaranteed 7'4" flat sheetrock ceiling with probably about 14-15' of width and 20-25' of length in a totally enclosed rectangular box - no windows at all. If we vault the ceiling into the roof line a bit, I could probably get another foot or so of height. but I would have 45 degree angles in the corners of the long parallel walls. I'm NOT an acoustician so I have no idea if that's good or bad.

You hit the nail on the head with listening preferences. I don't listen to a lot of large scale classical. Mostly Pop, Rock, Jazz, New Age, Small Courtet and a wee bit of true classical. My wife love's Yanni and Enya and show tunes, so they are in frequent circulation. I haven't started speaking to the guys at Rives in detail until after I meet with the developer to see what my true size restrictions will be. But if you are correct then the ceiling height restriction may not be as much of an issue as I thought.

-Matt

mattnshilp November 06, 2005 18:25

Matt; thanks. (blush, blush). there is a fine line between passion and being very nuts. i walk that line sometimes; which i suppose can be entertaining.

you have some pretty nice gear yourself (Parsifal, ASR, Hovland and VPI), you have come a long way from your Carver days (me too.....i was into Bose 901's and Mac in the early 70's). you are right; your gear can take full advantage of the best room you can put together. and you are very lucky to be figuring this out while building a new house. most guys here would kill for that opportunity.

and you are talking to Rives; a good choice.

my recommendation would be kinda pay attention to your feelings about the environment you would like to listen in. which place would you more likely want to be? is there any view or specialness to the attic? would finishing the attic add more value to your home than the same investment in the basement? as your kids get older will you need the basement for other activities?

from a purely acoustical standpoint; it's likely that the basement has more upside as ceiling height does make for a more open sound. Rives can make the short ceiling work; but you will pay some sort of price. is the attic ceiling square or vaulted? i do like the width and length; i would guess Rives could make a great room in that space...they know all the ceiling tricks.

another consideration would be your musical tastes. if you are mostly into small combo jazz, more intimate classical, and pop/rock....the ceiling height won't really detract much at all from the potential of that type of music. OTOH if large orchestral works are your passion; ceiling height would be more significant.

i have not heard the ASR amps; but would expect them to be similar to the darTZeel. enjoy the ASR; if you do get a chance to hear the darTZeel i would enjoy hearing about what you think. just cuz i'm getting off on the dart's is no reason to doubt the ASR's.

if you would like to talk about the room issues in more detail feel free to e-mail me and we can exchange phone numbers.

mikelavigne November 06, 2005 06:32

Hello,

I'd like to offer thanks from the multitudes of audiophiles that have learned gobs from simply sitting back and reading of your experiences and opinions. I, for one, started off on this wonderful audiophile adventure when I was about twelve when I bought my first system: Kef C-80 speakers, Carver Receiver and Sonic Holography CD player and I thought it was heaven.

Fortunately for me, my finances have improved over the years and I am now in early talks with the gentlemen at Rives to design my custom listening room. Which is the true point of my interjection. My current listening room is approximately 12'9" X 18'7" X 8' with a majorly pain in the ass unusual shaped ceiling and back area that has all but defied my every effort to tame the beast.

I have the choice of putting my new listening room in a new house I am building up in the attic (Daddy's room!!!) or down in the basement with a separate theater, party area, etc... I would MUCH prefer the attic as it's isolated, secluded and away from the kid's and their never ending curiosity (it's actually the kid's friends I worry about, not my children).

OK, so after all my ranting what the hell am I writing for? Well my issue is that if I put the room in attic I will have about 14 or 15 feet of width and an easy 20-25 feet of length to play with, but a VERY restrictive 7-8 foot ceiling (probably more like 7'4" after rock and insulation, etc...). I can make the room whatever I want overall on the inside since I'll be it's primary user. But I have spent a lot of time and effort putting together some nice equipment (although I am always playing) and i want to really let it shine.

As an alternative, I can wait an additional year or so to build a room in the basement where I have 12 foot ceilings and whatever other dimensions I want to play with.

So I ask, my dear compatriot in obsession, what would you suggest with your years of experience?

Thanks.

And I must thank you for igniting an interest in the DarTZeel when I was very stinking happy with my nice little ASR Emitter Exclusive I ,thank you very much!

It's like having the best damn glass of wine you've ever drank and then you hearing at the next table that HE just finished what you were having and liked what HE'S drinking even better. Well, now I gotta try that wine too, DON'T I?????????

Ehem....

-Matt

mattnshilp November 06, 2005 02:30

thanks Larry.

To be honest; for a number of reasons i would not expect that batteries would do for digital what i hear them doing for vinyl.

with vinyl; everything seems to make such large differences compared to digital; where differences seem to be much more subtle.

i have followed Hooper's quest of improving the little silver discs over on Audioasylum. i have tried some of those myself (as you and i spoke about on the phone awhile back). it's possible that some breakthru with the media regarding digital could change things.

whereas digital's noisefloor has likely found it's practical limits; it sounds to me that every improvement in that area for vinyl seems to yield ever increasing significant performance gains.

the fundamental digital conversion process seems to fundamentally restrict the density and completness of the data (psycho-acoustic theory notwithstanding).

i know that my reasonings are just the same old things but they ring true to my ears. my yard is litered with the bleached bones of digital diehards that died.

to be honest; i can see where Hooper is coming from having lived with the same basic gear he has. digital sounds damn good and does some things better than alot of good vinyl.

however; this new dart battery powered phono stage simply plays by new rules. if digital had been getting close before; it is farther away now.

mikelavigne November 05, 2005 21:20

.
Mike,
.
It sounds like you have musically reached way beyond fun.
.
I am wondering if you could buy / build some sort of battery /charger system for your EMM labs gear.
.
Please do video tape Hooper when he finally hears your system.
.
Congratulations,
Larry
.

cello November 05, 2005 20:01

Herve Deletraz (Mr. darTZeel) sent me an explaination of why we had some problems with battery power initially that i thought i would pass on to those interested.

**************

Herve's message;

"this is ONLY for the pre-serial machine you have:

The preamp is always drawing battery current, even when the preamp is switched off. So when you received it, maybe that the batteries were severely drawn out due to no AC connections for a while. Restoring the full charge would take several DAYS to recover, so the problem you had with DC issues: Batteries were extremely low, much lower than the regulation threshold, so DC appeared.

Having left the preamp hooked on AC enough time has restored batteries so now you don't have DC issue when in battery mode (except that you still must turn the volume down when changing input source).

When you talk about "switching in battery mode", I suppose that you remove either the AC cord (edit; yes i do exactly that) or the umbilical, since there is no real switch to do that.
When the preamp has enough charge (after several days, or even a week), the power led will eventually goes off when the preamp is off. As long as the power led is illuminated when the preamp is off, charging is not completed and the preamp doe not run in battery mode until unplugging AC cord.

When not using the preamp it is very important to plug it on the AC again, or batteries will be drawn out again. In case of non use (unplugged) for more than 1 day (or for shipping) it is strongly recommended opening it and unplugging the battery connectors inside, located at the middle of the preamp, on the bottom of the main PCB.

When the machine is in battery mode, you can still hear slight difference when the umbilical in plugged or not, even if the external power circuit is fully switched off. This is due to some residual coupling with AC mains, but the difference is marginal. (edit; this means it gets even better).

The preamp you have is also suffering from all software bugs, so the use is not the most convenient one you could expect... My own sample behaves as yours, but with full software fixes. Battery behavior remains the same, but after some days they were charged, and provided I do not listen for more than 6-8 hours a day, they are always charged for the next day... I mean that a "standard" user can perfectly live with a pre-serial - debugged - sample... :-)"

**************

Herve also sent me info on how the production (commercial) units will work that i thought would be of interest.

**************


"All the following for the coming commercial release:

The new release will NOT drain current when off, and the charging process will be much smarter: always battery mode when switched ON, always charging when switched OFF. If batteries will go low during playback it will switch to AC mode, but if you will switch it off, you won't need to wait for the full charge before benefiting for battery mode: if you leave it for 1-2 hours off, you will have 2-3 hours on battery mode at power on, and of course more if you leave it off longer. No memory effect on batteries guaranteed, whatever the charge state. When leaving the preamp always on you will cycle the batteries continuously (about 8 hours charging, 12 hours discharging) and the total span life will be around 3 years. When using the preamp "normally", say, with quite intensive listening 4 hours a day and 5/7, you can expect a life span of 5-10 years (the figure is no more precise at the moment since we have to complete our tests; we think it is closer to 10 years than 5).

As most parts of the preamp will NOT be energized when the preamp will be off, it will take about 20-30 minutes to sound good. There is little difference, since small devices are much faster at right temperature than power devices.

This time, there will be NO DIFFERENCE AT ALL in battery mode with AC/umbilical plug removed or not. We will add AC relays in the external power supply, so in battery mode these relays will be activated, opening the AC circuit, EXACTLY as if you would unplug the cord: doing so would not improve things further, as you cannot better switch off a bulb you already removed from the lamp... :-)

______________________________________________________________


As for the sound, both machines are completely identical, and there is not a single component or layout change about the signal path in both versions. Differences will be mainly addressing the battery behavior, removing some remaining small caveats in the volume control command, and also a - hopefully - less directional, more sensitive IR receiver."

************

i contemplated trying to explain the above myself but figured it would be better to just quote Herve's e-mail to me. however you describe it; the sound is miraculous.

mikelavigne November 05, 2005 17:05

Andy,

i was pretty fired up last night when i wrote that.

hummmmmm.

i would guess i'll feel the same next time i listen too.

i guess it's pistols at dawn.....or at least formats at dawn.

Andy, you gotta come out for a visit. it is much more than a matter of taste or tradeoffs. or maybe we need to get emmlabs to do a battery power supply.

btw, i can handle a few arrows.....fire away.

mikelavigne November 03, 2005 16:50

fascinating Mike, this new dart gear seems to be it for you, at least until they bring out some monos ... LOL ... what a silly and beautiful passion: MUSIC!

amperidian November 03, 2005 08:55

for the last 3 and 1/2 hours i've been listening to vinyl. i've been pulling out Lp after Lp and i'm just stunned by the just how beautiful music can be. not the gear, or the room, or the pressing, or the battery powered preamp.

the music.

when you strip away the crap in the reproduction chain.....and you have the music from a good Lp it's really wonderful.

i wanted to listen to the best recordings i have.

i started with some 45's.

Heifetz, Glazounov; Violin Concerto, disc 1. really beyond words. my mouth was just open in wonderment. unchained and without distortion i assume this is about how the master tape sounds. sooooo dynamic, soo 'continuous', the violin so sweet yet vibrant and strong. the music filled every molecule in the room.

if ANYONE has ANY doubts about just how far away digital is from vinyl they just need to listen to this. bring your digital masterings on your hard drives and wimper away with your tail between your legs.

Mussorsky; Pictures at an Exhibition, disc 4; At the Gates of Kiev. hearing the transients without distortion for the first time was off-putting. my cartridge had been telling me the truth but my system had not been able to handle it. the dynmaics really grab me and propell me along.

Ella Fitgerald; Let No Man Write My Epitath. as good a vocal recording as i have heard. i play this all the time as a system check. again; i am startled by the ease and effortlessness that i hear.

Ricki Lee Jones, POP! POP!......the guitars are completely real.

Van Morrison; Moondance. sooo dynamically alive. Van's voice is so powerful and 'there'.

i just love 'into the Mystic'.

Abbey Road, MFSL, side two. not the greatest recording in places; but magnificent in spots. more real than ever before by a wide margin.

this is one of my favorite all-time 'sides' of music.

tomorrow night i'll be at Key Arena to see Sir Paul in person. i'll be a guest of the tour sponsor and the seats are suppose to very good. i hope the sound is not disappointing.

i know i am suppose to be comparing cartridges but i just wanted to listen.

mikelavigne November 03, 2005 07:33

i may have heard the Edge battery powered pre; but i don't remember for sure. seems like i did at CES; obviously, it had no particular effect on me if i did. if i had heard anything like what i now hear i would have expected it to have gotten my full attention.

i wonder the same thing about AC. the ASR battery powered amp is said to be very special; but my previous experience with battery powered amps is a bunch of trade-offs at best; and not overall sonic satisfaction.

darTZeel feels that amps need AC for dynamics; but sources and pre's are best with batteries.

mikelavigne November 02, 2005 01:35

Islandear; i agree with your comments. the system has taken significant steps in the recent past but the emotional impact has not sustained itself like this step.

the compelling nature of the battery powered darTZeel preamp and it's phono stage is not wearing off. the system performance has turned a big corner in an objective sense; things are different now.

maybe why this is so profound is that all i need to do to hear where i was is to plug in the preamp......which is where i start each listening session. then there is the immediate undeniable jump in performance when i pull out the plug.

my opinion is that the darTZeel preamp plugged into the AC is still better than any other pre i have heard. OTOH at some point it might be good to get another SOTA pre in that i can compare the dart pre to with and without battery.

i am very curious as to how i personally 'feel' a week from now about this. will the system performance be as fresh and new as it seems at the moment?

another issue is that the amps should be getting close to the 30 day point of really opening up; how will the effect of that added to what i am now hearing play out?

fun stuff.

mikelavigne November 01, 2005 22:43

Mike, elk and bears are good, moose are even better! Let me know when Rocky and Bullwinkle show up.

You know, I've been following the development of your room/system for some time, and while you've written enthusiastic reports of the changes that have been made I don't believe you've ever sounded so happy or satisfied. I have never heard the Edge battery-powered pre, have you? Just wondering if AC is a beast to be removed rather than tamed.

islandear November 01, 2005 18:29

FYI, i am now listening to the pre exclusivly thru battery mode; i will never go back. since i am still breaking in the dart amps i do leave it in AC mode when i'm not in the room; but switch to battery mode when listening. I am using the remote without incident including muting; whatever 'gremlin' caused the initial battery mode issues has vanished. i do still need to power down to switch to battery mode (unplug the pre); the regular production run of dart pre's will automatically be in battery mode without the need to worry about it. i have not found a limit to the length of time i can be in battery mode or even the slightest clue that the batteries are running down; i am told that the pre will do 'at least 12 continuous hours' in battery mode and likely longer......i have done 7 continuous hours with no issue except my body's need for sleep.

there are so many amazing aspects to the performance of the pre in battery mode that it boggles the mind.......but i keep being startled by the effortlessness of everything. it's like the damn AC power was a chain around the sound......no matter how you try to make the chain 'pretty' or palatable......it limits what can be done in music reproduction; at least in terms of preamps.

however over-the-top this reads......it is my feelings at the moment.

mikelavigne November 01, 2005 14:56

Mike,

Thank you for the update and please continue :^)

I couldn't wait for the arrival of the preamp and hope it could reach me the soonest.

Cheers,

Sjmgr

sjmgr October 31, 2005 06:43

seductive?

well maybe a little. a little collective musical seduction is good for the soul. last night there were more than a few moments where we were both 'stunned' by what we were hearing. very special.

i don't have any boats floating by so don't worry. OTOH i do have some Elk and the occasional Bear.

mikelavigne October 31, 2005 04:02