Mike,
That newest picture is great!! I am really looking forward to hearing your impressions of the DartZeel preamp once you get it and run it in.

slipknot1 October 22, 2005 18:44

System edited: added picture.

mikelavigne October 22, 2005 14:57

mike - have you ever had a chance to listen to the bigger ACapella speakers in comparison?

frankpiet October 21, 2005 19:38

Mike, the best laid plans of mice and men... Sorry we missed each other at RMAF, I will endeavor to trek up to your place as soon as my travel schedule permits (and, assuming your invite still stands).

Yes, that is a very impressive system and I'm sure it sounds MUCH better in a dedicated, treated room. While the Marriott is better than the AP in LV there were really only a few rooms that lent themselves to the sophisticated gear on hand. Mike Verretto hung what looked like quilts on the side walls of his room and the damping did help.

Also enjoyed meeting Jonathan face to face...fun guy. Anyway, still look forward to hearing your rig/room.

islandear October 05, 2005 18:02

Great system Mike, your experience in the audio industry shows in what you've accomplished, easily among my top 3 favorite systems here on audiogon (along with Mike and Neli's Reference systems and Ramy's main system) ... a no-compromise approach for sure.

I noticed you have introduced the dart gear into your system recently. Will it replace the Tenors? If so have you ever considered or auditioned Dynaudio's arbiter gear? I know they introduced the battery operated preamp with some pretty stunning results, in fact they are still considered by many to be the best in the world and have to be heard to be understood.

Also I see you use Transparent Audio speaker cables. Their new model may also be of interest to you since you have the means to an end, the low end kicks up a notch (for a ridiculous amount of money ... bargain no? :) )

I'm in awe of your digital front end Mike, that's something I'll probably never be able to afford ... ever! By comparison I have a modest audio aero capitole mkII SE player (no sacd playback possibility here) that I use as my transport/dac/preamp combo with YBA passion amplification. All gear is isolated with symposium rollerblocks (series 2+ in double stacked configuration) with Shunyata powerconditioning (a hydra 4 with a Revelation Audio Labs 20 amp IEC Precept to it). I did find that the performanc of the system was significantly affected by introducing a Whest Audio DAP .10u in the chain ... also something you may want to consider, it made a believer out of me!

Remy

amperidian October 05, 2005 14:04

Kool, Mike. If SVR sounds great, I am salivating.

henryhk September 26, 2005 02:34

Mike,

You are welcomed.

In fact, I am trying to make the point that it is very important to look at every interface with the darTs (cables, isolation, electricity ....)

I should admit these are quite obvious especially for gears at this level. But for the darTs, the design is executed in such a way that they will continue to amaze you if increasingly quality resources are devoted ....

Sorry for the repetition. As you have done the experiment on cables, I am sure you could understand this well.

I am excited and very glad that your system is reaching the new heights.

Please enjoy.

Sjmgr

sjmgr September 26, 2005 01:57

Islandear, see ya in Denver.

Dalton, you can contact Jonathan Tinn (jtinn on Audiogon) at www.chambersaudio.com in Portland. the phone number and e-mail address is on the home page....that is who i purchased my VR9's from. you can call him on Sunday if you like.

he is a friend of mine and i highly recommend him.

there may be another Von Schweikert dealer in the Northwest......but i am not familiar with any.

mikelavigne September 25, 2005 16:12

Henryhk, i'm sorry if i gave the impression that i haven't been listening to rock/jazz/blues.....that is what i DO listen to about 80% of the time. my 'classical' comments were more an issue of how this amp/pre allows a non-classical person to 'get' classical since they sound so much more natural.

the dart pre and amps really ROCK! last night i listened till about 2:30 in the morning......i couldn't stop. i listened to Stevie Ray Vaughn's 'Tin Pan Alley' 3 times.....phenominal!!! the experience of that recording last night was trancendant. this is a 'touchstone' recording for me......and to hear it come so alive (that's the only word for it) was an experience i just didn't want to end.

transients are lightning quick, yet completely natural. the bass is deep and impactfull. if the recording has an edge it is there.....but in a natural fully rendered way.

i was running a $200 set of Audioquest cables on the woofer/subs......and i was running the Elrod EPS-2's (which are the entry level Elrods mean't for digital) power cords on the darTZeel amps (i have Elrod Statements for my Tenors but they use 20amp IEC's). my perception was that the amazing bass impact and dynamics i had been getting on the 300 watt Tenor Hybrids were noticably less with the 2 dart amps. the deep bass extention and speed was still there with even better articulation and coherence but without the weight and dynamics.

my friend that brought over the Opus also brought over some Elrod Signature EPS-3's. the change in power cords made a huge difference in the bass impact and dynamaics......bringing the 2 dart amps nearly even to the Tenors with the Elrod Statements. from my recollection of the effect of the Statements on that issue compared to any other power cords i would expect that with the same power cords as the Tenors 2 darts would be very close to the Tenors at impact and dynamics. remember, my room is 29' x 21' x 11' with extensive bass traping built in. most rooms would be easily controlled by 2 darTZeel amps.

with the better power cords combined with the second set of Opus speaker cables the dart 'system' is at simply a mind-boggling level of bass performance....which translates to 'action' in the soundstage and imaging that has to be heard to be believed.

last night i dragged out many old familiar rock, jazz and blues recordings......and they were all reborn to me......with much more substance and life.

mikelavigne September 25, 2005 16:02

Sjmgr, thanks again for the kind words. things here on the 'Gon can get testy sometimes.....i understand.

"extra courage and investment".....that's my problem....sometimes i have too much courage.....which results in too much investment. ;^)

mikelavigne September 25, 2005 15:10

Mikel,

Who carries the Von Schweikert line in the Pacific Northwest? Where did you get yours as I am interested in getting a different model? Thanks for the feedback!

dalton September 25, 2005 07:45

"if you read about how a wife killed her husband over an audio addition you'll know who that was."

I won't be surprised by this, hehehe ...

Mike, as I have already told you, you only need the extra courage and investment, to do justice to the darTs :^)

Sj

sjmgr September 25, 2005 05:30

Thanks for the invitation, Mike. I'm currently in LA. But I will definitely try to connect in Denver.

islandear September 25, 2005 04:05

Mike, let me me know when u start listening to rock/jazz/blues post the pre....I am more inclined to those types of music so quite interested out the pre-power set up you have is having an impact compared to others u have had in the past.

henryhk September 25, 2005 02:14

just when you think it can not get any more any more obscene as far as the price/value curve........a friend brings over HIS set of Opus speaker cables ($33k each) to try on the bass of my VR9's while my set of Opus is on the mid/tweeter.

as i sit here listening thru $66k worth (hah!) of speaker cables i just smile. sonofabitch if it isn't ridiculously special in the bass.....and therefore everywhere.

what's a guy to do?

if you read about how a wife killed her husband over an audio addition you'll know who that was.

now we return you to your normally scheduled program.

mikelavigne September 25, 2005 01:17

Andy,

Thank a lot for your kind words. I am lucky to have the darT amp with me. The preamp is on order and should arrive a few months later.

Totally concur with you about the necessity of SOTA isolation. I would say that darT gear require our ultra care and intense efforts in order to explore its real capability (Believe it or not :-)

From a silly audio nut
Sjmgr

sjmgr September 24, 2005 06:47

Mike,

Thank you and I would be most glad to chat with you more. I am hestiate to post here as I believe audio is a highly subjective and controversial hobby. For me, the goal is so far away and I have no clue as to where it is or how should I get there.

My recent experience with darT do remedy the situation. Of course, I still got a long way to go.

I always admire your system, especially the room acoustics and your collections, as I think I could not catch up or even follow close behind to you :-)

I've got the amp with me now and the pre is on order.

If you don't mind, please send me an email via Agon and I would be most glad to exchange more ideas with you.

Sjmgr

sjmgr September 24, 2005 06:20

Sjmgr,

your contribution is not only welcome, it is appreciated. this is not a closed discusion......in fact, the more the merrier. we clearly have musical and sonic tastes in common.

i would enjoy it if you would expand on your experience with the darTZeel......i always enjoy hearing another viewpoint. do you have the dart amp or pre on order?

i had previously looked at the other posts you have made to try and understand your perspective.....but there was not much info.

i do have about 750 classical cds and sacds and maybe 1000+ classical lps.....but i do expect that to grow even more as classical really sounds great when instrument timbre and clarity is so good. other musical genre's do sound great too but classical seems to have benefited the most since it is the more difficult for me to connect with easily. any veiling or edgyness with classical and i just go on to something else.

and we are all 'silly audio nuts'.

mikelavigne September 24, 2005 03:39

Mike,

Listening classical music from the darTs is the real treat, though other music should also sounds very nice. Your classical collections should start to grow much faster from now on :-)

Sorry for chiming in your discussion with Andy. From my very limited and incomplete experience on darT, I would think isolations and other factors should make the difference. You should know far better than I do that we really need a little bit of luck to be able to come accross the useful improvement approaches.

Being a silly audio nut, there is a few months' waiting for me to have the all darTs experience. Thanks a lot for your sharing and this makes my waiting worthwhile.

Sjmgr

sjmgr September 24, 2005 01:59

Andy,

the pre is sitting on the GP rack spot vacated by my switchbox. this is one of the Formula shelves.....i have the 21-40 pound foam disc in back and 2 41-65 pound foam disc's in front since the pre is quite front heavy (the batteries are toward the front of the pre).

the small power supply box (that has the charging system in it) sits on my short Zeothecus rack next to the GP rack.

i have not done any experimenting with other isolation approaches with it. the concept of improved performance seems almost silly (but probably exisits none the less).

i assume that the GP racks have made a difference but experimentation will be required to confirm that.

mikelavigne September 23, 2005 16:14

Islandear, be afraid, be very afraid. this is the real deal. i keep expecting the bubble to burst......but instead another layer of the onion drops away.

the set-up in Denver will mostly match what i have here other than speaker cables and tt (and room). but hard to imagine that it won't be very close.

since you are 'in the neighborhood' you are welcome to come over for a visit this weekend and assist some others in the 'investigation'. in any case please look me up and introduce yourself in Denver.

mikelavigne September 23, 2005 13:39

Sjmgr, "immersed in a sea of music" pretty much says it all. each time i sit down to listen i am startled by the closeness of music. my senses have not yet adjusted to the new reference. my brain tells me this is now how it is, but my emotions are still being stirred up.......goosebump city.

those moments of musical truth that we all are trying to achieve and appreciating so much are now where i am. i can throw any piece of music on and there is a specialness.

it is actually laughable how i now can hear that distortion or veiling was never the software but the reproduction chain......like seeing a flower the first time for a blind man that can see for the first time......words cannot describe it. you have to see it for yourself.

this is now the third day......the system has warmed up, settled in some......and is really together. classical music is just too much......pretty much anything i put on has such a natural timbre and immediate feel......it's musical bliss. i can play things at such low SPL's and still the music just leaps out at me. so intimate. so personal.

i'm just relating my feelings as i sit here listening.

mikelavigne September 23, 2005 13:32

"OTOH i would agree that the combo of gear we both have (and will have) seems to approach the performance goals we share better than any i have heard......so at least for our tastes (considering the very few systems like ours that exist) for the moment we might be closer to performance limits than most others.....but my opinion on that is quite narrow."

Well said, Mike.

IMHO, I would think having the darTs in the system will bring us much closer to the performance limits.

We only need to concentrate to work on and match with other system components and parameters, in order to reach our goal in audio. For me, the darTs is the indispensable roadmap.

Thanks,
Sjmgr

sjmgr September 23, 2005 08:31

Mike, frankly, you guys are starting to scare the crap out of me. I've watched the last couple of changes in your room - hold it, I'm drooling again - and every time I think that you're gonna hit the wall you find another key to sonic bliss. I'm not sure I want to hear your system cuz I think it will ruin me. But, being a manly man, I will take my chances and check out the set up in Denver. I just hope I don't find it as compelling as you have...hah.

islandear September 23, 2005 03:57

Mike, I enjoy reading your 'rave' very much, but, I would believe they are not 'rave' and it is natural to be awed by the properly implemented full darT system initially, and to be immersed in the sea of music afterwards :-)

Cheers,

Sjmgr

sjmgr September 23, 2005 02:55