Thanks Mike! I actually just purchased a Pass XA30.5, retubed the Hovland with some expensive Upscale Audio tubes and upgraded the SME arm as well. Not quite your league but I'm having a good time.

My friend Danny Kaey has the Playback designs system as well, pretty amazing stuff.

Take care and it's always great to hear from you.

jeff1225 January 30, 2013 00:02

hi Jeff,

long time no talk. nice to hear from you. your system is looking very fine; btw.

i'm loving my vinyl more than ever these days. it sounds heavenly. the NVS-Telos-Anna makes great music.

but as suprising as this might seem, i'm also enjoying my digital more than ever. in the last few weeks i've done two things that have caused me to listen to more digital. (1) i did a software upgrade to my Playback Designs MPS-5 which did elevate the performance. it was not a night and day improvement; but from it's already lofty performance it did get a nice boost in vividness, dynamics, and refinement. it's a little better. just more life like. draws me more to the music. and that is with every format from redbook to 2xdsd. (2) my son redid my server into 2 parts; the main PC with the mother board, and he combined all my hard drives into one box and reinstalled all my files. i now have almost 5 terabytes of files (redbook, PCM of all sampling rates, lots of dsd, and a good amount of 2xdsd) and the access times are quicker and my interface works better.

so the digital sounds a little better, and is easier to use. in the last 10 days i've almost been exclusively digital, and i've read 4 books while listening. it's sounds so good and is so easy. i been loving it. mostly i've been listening to dsd files, but lots of formats too.

this is not any slap at my vinyl. only that my system is serving my lifestyle as it should. i'll go thru another period where i'll be almost exclusively vinyl, or tape, for an extended time.

i think part of it was that i had a few books loaded on my Kindle that i had been meaning to read; and finally i had some down time after the holidays, the digital was all ready to go, sounding super, and i just went with the flow.

i have not had many visitors lately either. when that happens, the vinyl gets all the attention as it should. it sounds better and takes me farther into the music. but it demands more of me; more attention and involvement.

it's all good.

mikelavigne January 29, 2013 18:02

Marc,

sorry i forgot to respond to your earlier post with the same question.

as far as these 'ultra grounding' devices such as the Tripoint or the Entreq, my mind is open. my ears tell me that my noise floor is super low and logic tells me that i have grounding handleled. OTOH i would not be surprised if those type products did yield positive results in my system. there are really not many other ways i could do much more, i've covered most of the other bases i think.

so i'm not dismissing the idea of 'ultra gounding'; only that i'm not in that mode of pushing anymore. i have no motivation to go out and seek one of these products to try as i'm happy. if someone wants to allow me to demo one i would be open to it. and if it does clearly move the performance up i would likely find a way to get it.

i'm just listening and enjoying and not really thinking about the system and what more it might do.

mikelavigne January 29, 2013 17:30

Mike' everyone' your new cartridge plate(gem stone) making your cartridge have a different sound or a lowering of distortion is interesting... I have been testing these crossroads myself.... including the cartridge screws materials... boy can cartridge screws make a HUGE difference...so I would say experiment with them also .... this is a cheaper road that can give you very nice/different results...

Lawrence
Fidelity Forward

thanks.

i have not played around with cartridge screws but i know Joel has and that he thinks they matter.

no surprise; as your vinyl playback reaches high levels of resolution each little link in the chain matters more.

mikelavigne January 29, 2013 17:19

Hi Mike,
I hope all is well. I'm curious with your outstanding front end, how often do you listen to digital?

So much awesome new high quality vinyl, I'm finding that I'm not listening to my digital system as much.

Thanks, Jeff

jeff1225 January 29, 2013 02:27

Mike, any thoughts on my queries re earthing/grounding? Personally I find Tripoint prohibitively expensive but the Entreq stuff is priced reasonably. From what I gather, these are not devices like the Granite Audio Ground Zero which combats hum/loops, but they're advised to enhance inherent SQ of components, possibly complementing effects of balanced power.

spiritofmusic January 29, 2013 00:44

Mike' everyone' your new cartridge plate(gem stone) making your cartridge have a different sound or a lowering of distortion is interesting... I have been testing these crossroads myself.... including the cartridge screws materials... boy can cartridge screws make a HUGE difference...so I would say experiment with them also .... this is a cheaper road that can give you very nice/different results...

Lawrence
Fidelity Forward

lharasim January 27, 2013 23:36

hi Steve,

i have not forgot about the video, i will do my best to get that done sometime soon.

i went to the website link you provided. beautiful stuff and i'll bet it sounds wonderful. then i looked at your system page and your new tt.....congrats....i'll bet it sounds great. welcome to analog!

the Durand tonearms are very special....i'm not surprised a person such as George Thomsen would appreciate what Joel Durand has done.

Do you feel your at the stage where you feel your analogue front end can go no further or are you testing different options?

that is a loaded question which can be viewed a few ways. will i go further? is it possible to go further? am i satisfied?

the short answer is 'i don't know exactly'.....although i suspect that i'm very close to my personal final spot for vinyl performance.

as far as turntables; i consider the NVS among a small handful of the best ones regardless of price that have no particular rank. and if you used any of this group with the same arm, cartridge and set-up you would be hard pressed to hear any difference. there would be differences but debatable whether one would be clearly better than another. it would be splitting hairs. i don't have any thought to wanting a better turntable....i'm fully satisfied.

as far as tonearms; i see more differences between those aspiring to be the very top level i'm familiar with, and i do consider the Durand Telos to be better than any other one's i know about. i admit i've not heard all of them myself. however; i've had the privilidge to be around Joel Durand's tonearm development process these last few years. i've heard how different materials and design approaches have sounded. i don't see anyone who is taking such as ground up approach and being so inquisitive on the possibities without limit. i see how various parts of other tonearms are built, recall the lessons learned watching Joel, and realize how far those other designs need to go.

6 weeks ago Joel brought over a prototype cartridge plate to compare to the (already unobtainuim) metal one. this new one is made of Sapphire. consider what sort of motivation a designer might need to have to even think of making a Sapphire cartridge plate. unfortunately it did sound significantly (in the context of the Telos performance) better. it cleaned up nasties in the sound and made everything more coherent. so i had to buy it (approx $5k).

am i satisfied with the Durand Telos tonearm and think i should go no further? yes....but if Joel brings me another 'bombshell' like the Sapphire cartridge plate i'll likely bite.

i am very happy with my Ortofon MC Anna cartridge. but there are likely 5 or 10 other excellent cartridges. i am satisfied and have no feelings to pursue better.

i am very happy with my darTZeel phono stage and have no urge in that either.

and overall my vinyl can look my Studer A820-King Cello in the eye on most head to head comparisons.

so i'd say i'm done for the most part....with the exception i noted. that is not to say that further advances in vinyl performance are done.....and that is good news for all of us.

mikelavigne January 27, 2013 03:11

Hi again Mike,

Can we discuss turntables. Over here in the UK I use the Prometheus, WWW.prometheusaudio.co.uk

Interestingly a manufacturer that swears by the Durand tonearm. Do you feel your at the stage where you feel your analogue front end can go no further or are you testing different options?

Regards

Steve

cyclopse January 26, 2013 21:23

in the center on the wall between my speakers i have a triple stack of RPG Skylines. the Skylines are a very agressive precise diffuser for short distance first reflections and are ideal for enhancing the coherence of my center image. when i installed them i got much better images like focusing a camera lens. i did experiment with side by side and taller, but found that for my room 3 stacked was best.

behind and to the sides of the speakers (also in the ceiling wells) are Auralex T-Fusors. the T-Fusor is an inexpenive ($59 each) mild diffuser that primarily reduces slap echo without also changing the tonality. they attach with velcro tape to my hardwood walls and cleaned up the 'slappy' echo, busyness, and image smearing. i would not use the T-Fusors in first reflection spots. they are for large spaces just to scatter reflections more randomly. they can be filled if you need to dampen the high frequecies.

mikelavigne January 22, 2013 01:07

I notest that you install severall difusor panels, in the centre os the seakers, in the wall, you install 3 difusor panels, and side by side the speakers, more 6 each side.
Can you describe the sound differences with this panels?

shade_of_pale January 21, 2013 13:49

thanks Lawrence.

Equi-tech has GFI modules for every circuit inside my Equi=tech panel.

what my commercial electrician told me (rightly or wrongly) is that if i did not have liguid inside my room i did not need the GFI's. that they are mainly for kitchens, bathrooms, laundry rooms, garages and anywhere you have mixed uses with liguid.

i cannot say about the insurance issue and will defer to your perspective.

mikelavigne January 20, 2013 23:26

Hello just some thoughts...Mike you know that since you have "balanced power" meaning both legs are "hot" you cannot use just plan ol duplex outlets...you need gfi outlets!...if your room burns down and the insurance company finds duplex outlets they will not pay the claim!!

Lawrence
Fidelity Forward

lharasim January 20, 2013 19:10

Thank you Mike. Very informative.

tpaxadpom January 20, 2013 17:43

Tpaxadpom,

here is what i posted about 18 months ago regarding your question;

my most recent humbling experience regarding distortion is with duplex outlets.

when i built my room 7 years ago i used Jena Labs cryo'd outlets. i'd used them in my previous room and liked them. then 5 years ago a friend told me about the Oyaide R-1 outlets. i tried 5 of them in my room; i still kept 5 of the Jena Labs outlets next to the new R-1's. the R-1's were much better in every way. lower noise, increased vividness, better leading edge precision, more body. i had a number of local friends visit to hear the A/B with the Jena's. easy improvement. i replaced the other 5 with the R-1's....and have enjoyed them for the last 5 years.

a few weeks back i was speaking to this same friend about a Lp disk flattner since my new NVS tt does not have vaccuum hold down. i asked him if he had any other items that had rocked his world lately, and he reluctantly mentioned the Furutech GPX-D Rhodeium duplex outlets. he said it reluctantly since he sold me the R-1's 5 years prior. he said the GPX-D outlets were 100% copper contacts, that the R-1's used an alloy and did grip well, but the pure copper sounded better. the GPZ-D outlets solved the pure copper grip problem with a stainless steel band behind the pure copper to allow a proper grip on the plug. also; on the GPX-D everything was grounded and it was a solid as a rock. he said he was replacing his R-1's with the GPX-D's as he could afford to.

this person has high cred to me so i figured why not?

so 2 Sunday's ago he came over and installed 10 of them. btw; after he removed the first R-1 he demonstrated the build difference by dropping both outlets on my countertop; the R-1 had a kind of a hollow prang when it hit, the GPX-D a solid 'thud'.

after installation, at first it seemed like they were better but the sound was closed in and the life was missing. then i went around the back of my speakers and turned the tweeters up from -1.8 to -1. the (previously un-noticed) distortion (brightness) of the R-1's had caused me to need to reduce my tweeter output 1.8 notches below 'flat'. now i only needed 1 notch below flat to get the life with the GPX-D's.

my bass was now more linear, with increased dynamic snap and slam. more ambient information. there was a more natural flow and energy. but the biggest benefit was the precision of everything. every recording was now more solid. little things which i thought had been part of the music were now gone and only music remained. this was a big step. the music was more involving and compelling.

my power grid and system noise floor is amazingly low between the Equi=tech, power cords, and all the reasonance control. i cannot say how much difference these duplex outlets would make in every system. but on the path to musical reproduction truth these $240 each outlets really earned their keep.

and until i heard the absense of distortion from the R-1's i would never have thought it was there.

i am very happy with the Furutech GTX-D Rhodium outlets.

mikelavigne January 20, 2013 17:36

Mike your system as always impressive!
Do you mind sharing differences between your new Furutech outlets and Oyaide R1 you had in the past?

tpaxadpom January 20, 2013 07:05

Mike, I've suggested earthing/grounding as a possible option re further tweaking. I'm wondering if you feel this is a logical complement alongside balanced power. Tbh, beyond spending cash on supports, cables and an overkill 8kVA balanced transformer, I wasn't expecting to fork out on any other areas. I'm conciously avoiding all 'black magic' tweaks like Shakti Stones, Blackbodies, Quantum Field Organisers etc etc.
I considered Troy for a couple of milliseconds, but it's seriously out of my price range (fully configured, over half the cost of my whole system!). But there is a (reasonably) cost effective alternative: Entreq Audio Tellus grounding boxes and Eartha cables - in my system this would involve linking an Eartha cable each between: my phono stage, and 2 from the preamp rca jacks closest to cd input and output to power amp, all back to the Tellus passive grounding box. With 1 box and 3 cables this equates to about $3000.
I know like you that moving to balanced power has really reduced ground noise, loops and the overall noise floor. Indeed in my rig 4kVA of isolation is giving me an 'after midnight' sound all day long, so I'm finding it hard to believe there is a whole layer more of power related grunge to eliminate.
What's your gut instinct on grounding/earthing? If I go down this path it will delay what I'm considering is the definitive solution 8kVA pro studio balanced transformer, which with 85kg of copper in the transformer should outlive me!

spiritofmusic January 15, 2013 01:26

Thanks for the write up. I am not down on my system. That's why I put the :) in there. How about the Mono's. Are they light years ahead of the 2ch one? I would love to have the 108 in my system, but alas, that probably won't happen. Getting back to the speakers, the only MM series I have heard have been the MM2's at Barry's place a long time ago. They sounded really good. So I can just imagine more of that and get a feeling for what the MM7's are like.

For me, again I am not slamming my own system. I have listened to some music lately(SRV on vinyl). Tin Pan Alley just sounds insane to me. It is really good. I also listened to some harder stuff that you probably would not be into. It's really heavy but it sounded awesome. Plus, another band named TOOL just sounds so good when I play it along with the Allman Brothers. So trust me, I am not down on my system. Especially when I think about what I paid for my speakers ;).

Now am I done? Nope. I am still trying to get more out of what I have. I plan on getting the Wave Kinetic speaker feet and the external motor control for my Well Tempered table. I am also going to get a matching Live Live speaker cable for my center and a matching Live Live balanced cable for my amp that goes to my center on my Integra. I also want to get the Wave Kinetic component feet for my OPPO BR player and I want to change out the power cords for my Bryston amps. I realize that my amps are the week link but I am limited in space so I am trying to get them to sound as good as they can.

Does that mean I am done? Again, who knows. Depending on what the external motor does for my TT I may think about a better phono preamp. The only other thing to do would be to change speakers. That would require some effort and thought on my part. But if that does happen, it would not be for a while. Again, thanks for that great explanation. Did you need to do anything else with room treatments with these new speakers? Or even though they are different, the room is still friendly to them. Plus, it's pretty cool that the designer will be coming out to the final tweaking.

For me, I think I have had good advice from many people and it has helped me get my system to where it is. Enjoy the Monoliths. I am sure it was quite the adventure setting everything up.

mikeduke January 14, 2013 19:38

yesterday playing vinyl for some visitors i did have a new 'high peak watt output' of 258 watts on the 458's. i played the RTI pressed ZZ Top 'Tres Hombres' cut of 'LaGrange' at warp factor 9.

sonically there was no drama.....no strain....and no bleeding ears. just big smiles. very physical bass felt in your body but in service to the music. earlier i had played a great blues tape and that was more mellow but similar in the 'felt' aspect of the bass.....but only hit about 60 peak watts as it was lower in frequency so more the sub tower than the 458's.

mikelavigne January 14, 2013 13:33

hi Mike,

thank you for the kind words. but stop that with the depreciation of your own excellent system. i know you have put much effort into building it and you should be proud of it. i'm sure it makes great music and puts a smile on your face.

as far as MM3 compared to MM7; the diffference is more than just bass response.

there is a family resembelance to the sound in the overall beauty, coherence, and naturalness. the MM3's are balanced and tonally right and magical in the lack of 'hifi'ish' peaks and edge. the MM3's have that full bottom end with great articulation, dynamics and extension. the MM3's are balanced thru the mid-bass and sound like music.

the MM7's start with all those same things but take them all to another level or three. the actual differences with the MM7 start with a completely different crossover. from my perspective this is the heart of the difference between the 2 speakers. then you add 4 extra 11" ceramic matrix woofers per side, which allows the mid-range to cover much less frequency. all those woofers need very little excursion in the very important mid bass region. the combination of the crossover and woofers results in a 'unheard of to my ears' magical mid-bass linearity and dynamics. it is simply so refined and effortless in this frequency range. it does not draw attention to itself. but when you are listening the music simply flows and energizes. so much detail, so real. no matter what you throw at it you get music only. the mid range has more clarity, the mid-bass is cleaner and more energetic. you have 96db, 6 ohm efficiency which allows the amp to be more linear. so when you compare this region to the already top notch MM3 you have really gone to a wonderful place. you have to recalibrate your ears and musical memory to a new place of what is possible (from a pretty good place it was prior).

as far as the bass towers and what they bring over the MM3's....it is similar to the crossover and extra 4 woofers. first, the MM3 the 2 powered subwoofers per side covered up to 100hz, even in some rooms up to 120hz. whereas in the MM7's you have 4 powered subwoofers per side only covering up to 30hz-40hz. right now mine are set at come up to around 32-33hz. and the main towers decend down to around 20hz (-6db). the result of all this ability to move air in a linear way is a linearity which must be heard, and an effortlessness that, again, does not draw attention to itself. the bass just happens. no drama. whatever you throw at it gets to your ears. and it is so seamless. right. compared to the MM3's the MM7's take things to another level. a level your reference did not know existed. with the MM3's i was 100% satisfied with the bass performance. now i see another level.

i can play anything with great bass dynamics or extension and quickly your ears are not glued to that 'bass event'. instead, you come back to the musical direction since you adapt to the fact that there is no question you are hearing what happened. the bass fireworks become what they ought to be, music. when i have visitors i will play a few moments of a bass torture test. a track that might have challenged other speaker systems to some degree. we quickly move on back to music since there is no drama to wondering whether it can do it. the bass performance serves the music without limit. the MM3's were capable and great, the MM7's rule both in linearity and in dynamics.

one very interesting thing about the the bass towers and the linearity of the bass; when i added the bass towers to the main towers the mid-range and high frequencies got much better. a very significant change. linear bass along with very deep extension simply completes the musical picture in a way that startled me. how could that subwoofer tower make the high better? i suppose it's the overtones and balance which accounts for it.

i know i can play any type of music and the MM7's will express it properly. the recording will be portrayed. so my focus is on the music as an experience. the MM3's gave me that feeling, the MM7's give me quite a bit more of it and do that on a level i have not otherwise experienced.

overall there is simply such a lack of a sense of a speaker or system, just music. i got that with the MM3's, but much more with the MM7's.

am i done with tweaking the speakers? no. and three times recently helpful friends have assited me in getting a little closer to the ideal set-up. and in a month or so the designer is suppose to visit and do a final tweaking of the set-up.

mikelavigne January 12, 2013 16:10

hi Teck,

sorry for the late response, busy week.

it was great seeing you and Chun, and again thank you for the support and guidance finding more truth from the system. i'll keep working on it. i am enjoying the music.

i do hope Pradeep can visit.

best regards,

mikelavigne January 12, 2013 15:05

hi Marc,

sorry for the delay in my response, it has been a busy week.

i'm happy for you that you feel you are at a good place and direction in system development....and that it's coming together for you with all the details. it does require considerable effort and commitment to cover all the bases. then just when you think you are there you discover another layer of the onion to peel back and go deeper.

it's nice to hear you are stepping back and just enjoying.

i do think my major 'peeling days' are over. i'm down to tweaking what i have.....and expect that to take quite some time.

i'm in no hurry.

mikelavigne January 12, 2013 15:01

Hey Mike. I haven't been in here in a bit. What can I say. MM7's and the 458's? I am speechless. Plus that TT and all the other gear. I really don't know what to say. I usually say "man, I can imagine that sounds awesome." But I can't say that now. I can't even begin to fathom what that may sound like. Congrats on putting together a fantastic system. I still have the 1027's and Well Tempered table. I almost feel like I shouldn't be allowed to type here :). Anyway, again, congrats on a simply fantastic system.

I may go back and try to find what you wrote but if you could give a quick run down on the main differences between the MM3 and MM7. I assuming it's just more then greater bass response. Enjoy that setup.

mikeduke January 08, 2013 13:29

Mike,

your system is where it should be....Congratulations!!!

Both Chun and I enjoyed our visit and really am happy for you..

As you said, just sit back and listen and enjoy tweaking the last 3%...

Salute!!

PS... next time i will convince Pradeep to come visit too.

teck5 January 06, 2013 18:12

Hi Mike, interesting you're in the process of consolidation and winding down on significant, if any, further upgrades. I think I'm approaching the same stage now. But not 12 months ago, far from it.
At that time, I became extremely frustrated with my system: I'd always been a pro analog man, but upgrades, esp. to my digital (settling on an EMM labs CDSA SE) switched my allegiance almost entirely to cd! Oh, the ignominy!
But 6 months ago I discovered the delights of a direct rim drive tt and air bearing linear tracking arm, and a whole swathe of cloying artificial analogue warmth was stripped away, completely reasserting analogue's superiority over digital. Soon after I upgraded my speakers to full range drivers/non crossovered technology which enhanced this further.
My conclusion is, maybe like you, that I've removed "cognitive dissonance" from the system. In other words, I've achieved a massive reduction in colourations, and consequent increase in transparency and ease, which means I'm not subconciously analysing the music as I'm listening to it. So great to not 'hear the system', but 'hear thru it'.
My remaining journey is to improve the environment of the system, and indeed for the first time I'm finding discernable changes when experimenting with balanced power, acoustic treatments, supports and cables/cords. So I'm not totally done just yet. But other than a possible cart option which I believe may top the neutrality of the analogue front end further (Soundsmith Straingauge), I'm done with major component upgrades, and like you I'm sure, I'm pretty happy about that. I wonder if lack of cognitive dissonance means I've got one step closer to the best of live music?

spiritofmusic January 05, 2013 21:56