Jeff,

sorry for the delay in my response, and thanks for the kind comments.

here is one post a made about my Skylines about a year ago. hopefully it will help.

i looked at your system page and pictures. very nice gear btw and attractive room. i could not tell the height of your ceiling or width of the room from the pictures.

you would likely get performance improvements from some diffusion behind and between the speakers as well as on the ceiling and walls at the first reflection points. Skylines are likely as good as anything for 'smallish' rooms where the 1st reflection times are short. as the distance from your speakers to the 1st reflection points gets longer, less agressive diffusion is needed.

i'm not an expert and i'm just throwing out some things to think about.

good luck.

mikelavigne October 27, 2010 22:28

Chris,

the fact i brought my A90 to RMAF for Frank to use is not an issue. it was no problem at all. the fact that Frank did not use it was not an issue for me either. even Frank saying that there was something amiss with the A90 i brought did not matter to me (now that i know it's fine).

the fact that the basic rules of the event were changed by Frank at the last minute and Joel was put in a no-win position is the only issue for me. what could Joel do? go find his own stand alone phono stage to even the playing field? how would that have looked? instead Joel just made the best of it. good on Joel.

i'm not specualting about the reasons Frank made those decisions. but since he did we are left to view the proceedings however we do.

i've had both arms in my system. i listen to various arms on multiple tt's daily thru multiple phono stages. i have my perspective.

you have yours.

i think i've said enough on this subject.

mikelavigne October 26, 2010 00:33

not sure how you telling me to "chew on that" which I took as a bit of a debasing comment toward me has anything to do with Frank or being pc. I have no problem with calling a spade a spade and typically I do, you've seen my posts on asylum, we've even talked about some of the more colorful ones briefly.

Again I was there, I know what happened, I just couldn't get as worked up about it but then again it wasn't my A90

cpk October 25, 2010 23:58

Mike,
It's been very enjoyable watching your system evolve! I searched through your treds and can't find your thought on the Skyline defusers. Can you give us a few words?

Thanks!

jeff1225 October 25, 2010 23:46

Jason,

enjoy the surfing.

cheers,

Mike

mikelavigne October 25, 2010 22:09

Hello Mike
I will stop now as I do not want people to think that there is a biased opinion on this forum from Audio distributors or financial partners of dealers.

At the end of the day what is important is to " Enjoy the Music " and it does not matter what personal audio equipment we use to do this.

I am off Surfing now which is another passion of mine.
Cheers Jason.

jasonparmenter October 25, 2010 20:19

I did not receive your email about EMM Labs sorry or I would have replied very quickly to you.

i never delete an e-mail. i'll forward you the 'sent' e-mail from back in December and we can go from there.

You posted your opinion on this Forum Best Sound of the Rocky Mountain Audio Show in your report

no, i only posted my thoughts regarding RMAF here on my system page. i've done no other posting about RMAF as i got sick during RMAF and took most of last week to recover so i never got around to it.

so I then asked the question about personal preferences and familiarities coming into play as to the reason why this could be your favorite room.

you did not ask a question about personal preferences. you took a guess based on what you thought happened from your EMM Labs dealer perspective.

I think it is a bit of personal preferences as to how music sounds in each individuals point of view, that is probably why Mike liked his good friends room Jonathan Tinn`s as the best sounding at the Rocky Mountain music festival.
The equipment is this room is probably the closest to what Mike has at his place so this is his reference point as to how music sounds.
Other Individuals might have preferred another room as their best sound of the show because it is closer to how they like their music to sound.

i think you should stop now before you bury yourself further.

mikelavigne October 25, 2010 19:45

Hi Mike
I am Jason Parmenter of Parmenter Sound, I am a Audio distributor in New Zealand & Australia, but I am a passionate music & audio enthusiast first & foremost for the last 30 years.

I did not receive your email about EMM Labs sorry or I would have replied very quickly to you.

You posted your opinion on this Forum Best Sound of the Rocky Mountain Audio Show in your report, so I then asked the question about personal preferences and familiarities coming into play as to the reason why this could be your favorite room.

As a comparison if I played a Steinway & Sons Piano all the time then I played a Baldwin do you think that I might have a preference as to my personal best pick, I think audio system familiarity is very similar.

Nothing personal against you Mike this was just a question as a possible reason to your Best of Show room.

jasonparmenter October 25, 2010 18:42

Bravo Mike for not being politically correct and sugarcoating things.

I read about it like other analog fans here regarding the event and was excited that I book the hotel in advance and made plans to attend because of it. I ended up not being able to attend(last second change at work) but would have been quite upset on such turn of events.

tiguwagu October 25, 2010 17:15

that's not very nice

i like Frank. he's always been friendly to me and he is a credit to our hobby. but his 11th hour decision to bring a ringer into that situation was nothing but wrong, wrong, wrong. i think he used up lots of good will that night he has earned over the years by pulling that stunt. and i cannot see any other way to view it. if Joel, as the newcomer, had done that he would have been derided on the spot.

btw; yesterday Joel installed my new 2nd generation Talea on 'The Beat' tt yesterday using the A90 Frank felt was somehow not useable for him. to say it sounds wonderful does not go far enough.

i know i'm not being as politically correct as i could be. but 'nice' is not how i feel about how things came down.

mikelavigne October 25, 2010 15:38

Hi Mike,

chew on that.

that's not very nice. I was there too and was given a number of reasons why a different preamp was used. My opinion why is just speculation and belief in not trying to throw anyone under the bus. I have no dog in this race and as you told me that night, you do.

to be clear and to keep the comments of mine you quoted in very clear perspective

that is why the the second sentence I wrote was:

Not having either of the arms I will defer to Mike and Robin on exactly what differences are attributable to the arms themselves.

I don't have either arm or am I familiar with anything else used in the comparison. I'm just reporting what I heard prefacing it with my location in the room which most likely made those differences more obvious as when I moved midway back into the room those differences in dynamics were not as great.

cpk October 25, 2010 14:14

Jason,

fair enough.

but when as a dealer of competing gear you dismiss my preference for best sounding room at RMAF as nothing more than familiarity and personal preference......

I think it is a bit of personal preferences as to how music sounds in each individuals point of view, that is probably why Mike liked his good friends room Jonathan Tinn`s as the best sounding at the Rocky Mountain music festival.
The equipment is this room is probably the closest to what Mike has at his place so this is his reference point as to how music sounds.
Other Individuals might have preferred another room as their best sound of the show because it is closer to how they like their music to sound.

....your perspective of wanting to temper my perspective jumps out. why else would you go on someone's system page to make that point? it must have been important to you to make that particular point on my system page. i could see the rational on some independent thread as being reasonable (if you first disclosed you were a dealer of competing brands).

the last time you visited my system thread...

post from 12-22-09

....you cast dispersions on the Playback Designs as a dealer for EMM Labs. i emailed you for information about what you were inferring and you never answered my qustion. so it's hard to give you the benefit of the doubt about your intentions.

in any case i did not take it personally for reasons i already stated and have no problem with you personally.

mikelavigne October 25, 2010 13:23

Mike
I am a audio dealer yes a well none fact that I have never tried to hide, the reason you mention for me posting on your thread is not my reason for stating my thoughts.

I have followed your thread over the years with interest and appreciation for the time you have spent getting your music room acoustics right.

I think that music playback is a Individual enjoyment and that peoples audio system requirements will always vary.

From following your audio systems progression over the years I would say that you and Jonathan have very similar tastes in audio components, Digital, amplifiers & speakers tonal sound and how they react when placed in a audio system together.

Thanks I will have a nice day as the weather is looking wonderful here today with the sun coming up over the sea and wonderful music playing.

jasonparmenter October 24, 2010 17:58

Jason,

the fact remains that you visit my system page as a dealer of competeing gear with an agenda seeking to counter my perspectives....quite transparent to me so i typically ignore your posts.

i don't take it personally as i realize for you it's just business.

have a nice day.

mikelavigne October 24, 2010 13:48

Jonathan
Music taste and music playback enjoyment through audio systems is a Individual preference.
I do not agree with you, personally at the moment I am really enjoying the Musical Affairs speakers using the PHY KM 30 SAG speaker drivers, 97 db 16 ohm with out crossovers or subwoofers running off low powered valve amplifiers.
I feel these speakers really breath & portray the inner beauty of the music, not always "Clarity is King" some times natural tone of a instrument is king and vibrating bass notes take on a musical tone that no powered sub woofer I have ever heard can portray to the same extent.

My point I think was quite clear in the text, personal bias comes in to play when one is to pick a best Sound at a audio show, you probably would not like exactly the same as I do so we both then would have different requirements from our music playback systems.

The Tone of Music is King to me.

jasonparmenter October 24, 2010 05:16

Jason: You said "I think it is a bit of personal preferences as to how music sounds in each individuals point of view, that is probably why Mike liked his good friends room Jonathan Tinn`s as the best sounding at the Rocky Mountain music festival.
The equipment is this room is probably the closest to what Mike has at his place so this is his reference point as to how music sounds.
Other Individuals might have preferred another room as their best sound of the show because it is closer to how they like their music to sound.

I think every one is biassed when it comes to music and how it should sound, is there a "best sound of the show" or is there a preference to favorite sound of the show."

Or... maybe it was just the best sounding room at RMAF. :) The majority of people who came into our room said they thought it was the best sound at the show and most of them do not own anything I sell.

I really think you miss the point of a "personal system thread". It is all about "personal" opinion. I would bet if you heard the room, you would feel the same way as Mike and most of the people who stopped by for a listen.

I really do not understand your point and what your motivation is.

jtinn October 23, 2010 23:00

Look forward to reading your follow ups including in relation to the "The Beat" table

to really enjoy 'The Beat' tt i need to get my new Allnic H3000 phono stage broken in. the one i heard when Steve was here 3 weeks ago had 60+ hours on it; mine only had about 15 hours on it thru Thursday as i've been gone and then sick. there was still a noticable sonic difference between what i recall from Steve's and what i was hearing so far. so yesterday i pulled out a Hagerman reverse RIAA device that allows any line level analog source to be converted to mimic a MC cartridge output. it was plugged in all day yesterday (about 12 hours) and when i came home last night the Allnic was better. i listened late and then plugged it in again. by tonight i'll be close to 50 hours time thru the MC inputs and we should be close to optimal.

then i can really start to enjoy 'The Beat' in all it's considerable glory.

mikelavigne October 23, 2010 18:29

a month or so ago i completed some room changes (removing ceiling bass trapping and adding the Equitech) and discovered the driver problem (wired out of phase) and corrected that. then i re-adjusted my speakers considering the new room environment. next i spent a few days messing with trying to really nail down toe-in.

next i removed all my Jena Labs power cords and mostly replaced them with Belden generics. i kept my Tel Wire power cords on the Playbacks and dart 108 amp. i felt that with the Equitech whole system isolation transformer that the in-line AC conditioners of the Jena Labs Fundamental One power cords would be likely to be less than ideal and i wanted to start out without any other conditioning.

specifically i did purchase three Absolute Fidelity power cables from Gary Koh of Genesis Loudspeakers. one of the cables is called a 'Turntable Power Interface' cable and it's designed to integrate with a regenerating AC motor such as found on some tt's. it's beyond me to say why something works but this cable does work on any tt i put it on and also on my Studer. more meat on the bones. bigger bolder sound. i also purchased 2 other power cords for the digital subwoofer amps in my Evolutions. Absolute Fidelity say these are designed specifically to integrate with subwooofer amps. these made a very signifcant improvement in the bass linearity in the bass over the Jena's. understand that i had done lots of power cord comparing 4 years ago prior to selecting the Jena's. i did try both cables in my 'dirty' AC outlets to make sure i was not hearing a Equitech-Jena problem.

lastly i've added some islolation footers, the Wave Kinetics A10 U8's, 7 sets of them. i have them under almost every piece of gear i have, including under the network pods of the Transparent Opus II speaker cables.

the A10 U8's made a significant difference in terms of system focus and naturalness. leading edge precision and energy and life increased to a level i've not heard before.

as i did not insert and then listen at every step i don't really want to ge into my before and after impressions of every power cord and set of footers. but this last step of fine tuning has taken me to system synergy.

anyway.....the result of these final tuning steps has been.....the system is where it should be.

tomorrow the new Talea will be installed and then i guess i need to update my system page with up to date pics and gear list. it's time.

mikelavigne October 23, 2010 16:58

Thanks Mike for your detailed thoughts, lots of great info. on your take of things. Ya I would say you were busy, good to hear you are recouping.

Ahh the joys of this hobby and all the great pces available out there along with the different flavours they offer.

Those Dart mono's look marvelous along with the Evolution MM7's four pce speaker set-up. cha ching! cha ching!

That alone will be very interesting pairing up indeed!

Look forward to reading your follow ups including in relation to the "The Beat" table.

dev October 23, 2010 16:23

I think it is a bit of personal preferences as to how music sounds in each individuals point of view, that is probably why Mike liked his good friends room Jonathan Tinn`s as the best sounding at the Rocky Mountain music festival.
The equipment is this room is probably the closest to what Mike has at his place so this is his reference point as to how music sounds.
Other Individuals might have preferred another room as their best sound of the show because it is closer to how they like their music to sound.

I think every one is biassed when it comes to music and how it should sound, is there a "best sound of the show" or is there a preference to favorite sound of the show.

jasonparmenter October 22, 2010 23:29

"at those levels you are really speaking to a matter of taste and maybe even aesthetics."

Why is that? Why do you presume that at a certain price point the rules of accuracy and linearity, in terms of performance and quality go out the window?

carlos269 October 22, 2010 17:42

Ok, i'd agree that Zanden is very fine gear and could be the backbone of a wonderful state-of-the-art system. at those levels you are really speaking to a matter of taste and maybe even aesthetics.

having just had the Lamm Ml2.1's; in comparison the Zanden amps/pre might be not as dark sounding (i don't mean that in a negative way) as the Lamm, but the Lamm is likely more linear top and bottom than the Zanden. the Lamm is maybe a bit quieter and refined, but only a bit.

i might prefer bthe Wavac higher level gear to Zanden. there are many ohers too.

mikelavigne October 22, 2010 17:21

I did not mean the phonostage in particular , i was thinking more of the model 3000 pre and 9500/9600 mono amps , and i agree they also may have coloration , but i personally could easily live with that

andromedaaudio October 22, 2010 16:32

Andromedaaudio,

i assume you are asking my opinion on the Zanden phono stage?

i've heard the Zanden at shows and i like it in the way i like some other very good but obviously 'tube' sounding phono stages. they are lovely to listen to but have a character which one must decide to accept and love. as opposed to the Allnic which while it is tubes and you can tell, it's quite neutral and not overly warm sounding. in fact, the Allnic only sounds like tubes when i go back and forth with the darTZeel. otherwise it sounds like music. it has a bit of extra bloom, but only a bit, and has a very solid and articulate bass performance, nothing bloated or lacking snap.

mikelavigne October 22, 2010 16:26

Chris,

to be clear and to keep the comments of mine you quoted in very clear perspective, i feel strongly that Frank's decision to insert his $20k Artemis phono stage into the equation was the source of the dynamic and tonal performance of the Schroeder. and to be further clear; the Talea was the better sounding arm to my ears.

again; i spent 45 minutes the following morning in Frank's Artemis room listening to the Schroeder, Sussaro, and Artemis phono stage to be clear about context.

btw; i was sitting almost dead center in the third row so i had a very good veiwpoint on the music.

i have three phono stages in my room. i can get many different results with various combinations of arms, cartridges and phono stages. at least my phono stages are of similar value and performance. in the case of the 'event' last Saturday you have a integral phono stage in a good, not great, full function preamp compared to a stand alone $20k phono stage. apples and oranges.

Joel accepted the Atmasphere phono stage as part of the equation; Frank decided he needed to change it.

chew on that.

mikelavigne October 22, 2010 16:17