Mike,

Dim light pics looking good. Will you be spraying the T-fusors to match the Skyline color scheme or have other ideas?

Thanks,

Jim

joneill March 17, 2010 19:27

Gallant Diva,

it was great seeing you again and enjoying another listening session together.

i thank you for the kind words and for taking the time for the detailed feedback. also for sharing your wonderful musical selections.....not the run-of-the-mill audiophile stuff but gems indeed!

in the last few days i have been enjoying the music you left me as i have recovered from my painting project. that Chinese female vocal and choir particularly have been in heavy rotation.

i appreciate the feedback you gave me and will consider it.....although tube amps are not likely.....but you never know.

best regards,

mikelavigne March 17, 2010 04:00

forgot a picture i especially liked.....

T-Fusor, dim light, tt's

mikelavigne March 17, 2010 03:45

ok, here are room pictures with the painted T-Fusors;

room with painted Auralex T-Fusors

painted T-Fusors in low light

painted T-Fusors in dim light

left side painted

right side

closeup, painted T-Fusors

i am very happy with how they turned out after painting. un-painted they did look quite striking and i liked them; but the stark white called attention to them and always drew my eyes to them. now they blend into the room whatever the light conditions yet still add texture. they are complimentary.

the total cost of the project was about $1000 including paint and the spray gun.....plus about 10 hours and sore hamstrings.

it was well worth it.

mikelavigne March 17, 2010 03:31

my T-Fusor paining project....very boring except if you want to paint them yourself. hopefully you can learn from my struggles.

Saturday before Gallant_Diva arrived i did finally get to Home Depot and get some matching paint so i could paint my Auralex T-Fusors. i also purchased an inexpensive paint sprayer.

early Sunday morning i started in on my paint project. i had to pull the unpainted T-Fusors off the wall and labeled them so i could match the velcro upon re-hanging. i set up a 'paint booth' in my garage and initially sprayed them with a plastic primer coat. my garage was about 55 degrees so i had already moved a space heater into it. i let the primer coat dry about 2 hours as i read thru the spray gun instructions. i'm not a painter, only a passionate audiophile....with lots of motivation.

i then went out and sprayed the damn things. it's a messy job. the biggest challenge is that the spray gun only wants to spray in the horizontal, yet the diffusors are laying on the floor up against the wall. they have lots of little depressions which fill up with excess paint. i got thru it fairly well.....but a bit of experience likely would have been helpful. now 2 days later my hamstrings are paying the price for all the bending over and squating....ouch!

initially i waited about 2 hours for the T-Fusors to dry; but in a 60 degree garage that was not going to happen any time soon. so i spread the painter's plastic over the floor of my listening room (which has HVAC) and carried the panels into my room, then turned the temp up to 78 degrees. a couple hours later they were mostly dry. little cracks had formed on some of the surface in some places as it dried. i used a hair dryer to get the edges dry and re-hung them. in some places i had runs where excess paint had collected. i was careful to dab this excess away with paper towels. finally it was all hung. looked pretty good. by the next morning it was good and dry. then Monday night i spent a couple of hours using a small brush to touch up all the little cracks and spots i had not completely covered.

i wanted to explain this for anyone wanting to paint these things to have an idea of what it takes to do it. i'll post pics in the next post.

mikelavigne March 17, 2010 03:15

I said "I think that should make the midrange gloom a bit more. "

Sorry, I meant to say lowering some bass would make the midrange glow and shine, not gloom.

gallant_diva March 17, 2010 02:36

Mike:

Allow me to thank you for your generous hospitality at your great listening room last Saturday. I totally enjoyed my visit and it was a great pleasure meeting you again after some 3-4 years. You are a great listener as well as a great host. Your room is a state-of-the-art and sounds much better now, thanks to all those well thought of recent mods you have done to it. I think you have made some very smart moves by reinforcing your walls, removing the bass traps (I myself do not care for those and have none in my room now). The room is less damp and thus has more life to it than before.

Needless to say, your equipment and software collection is awesome, especially your sources. Your greatest asset however is not your hospitality or equipment collection but the passion you have for this hobby, which has two implications: First, your passion contributes to the hobby by pushing the expectations of high-end audio to its limit. Second, you generously share all this with friends in audio. You are surely a star audiophile, shining right up there among the very best bunch.

It all started with my driving to your beautiful home nestled among spectacular trees in front of a gorgeous mountain. After chatting for more than 15 minutes, we were on to the listening business. We spent several hours listening to a wide variety of music, using some of disks and LPs that I had brought with me as well as your own collection. Your repertoire of audio gear includes the spectacular MM3 speakers drive by the Dartzeel electronics. The driving force behind the system is the mighty Rockport Serius III turntable and a very good CD player, in addition to the Technics and Gerrard turntables. And finally, the grand daddy of them all, the Studer Tape Deck. Nevertheless, I think the Rockport still stands as the king of all the audio gear you have.

The sound was full, detailed, smooth, relaxed, precise and musical. You asked me to be “brutally critical and honest” and so was I. It was all music delivered by layers and layers of high quality audio rendered with extreme precision and fine touch. The system sounds neither like solid state nor tubes, and that is your philosophy. It should be neutral and I agree with that. However, I am in contrast a tube freak and that is where our taste may differ. But that is ok, it is like picking different favorite dishes from the same menu. One is not necessarily more right than the other.

The music I had brought with me covered an extensive range of music, ranging from female and male vocalists, classical orchestral music, jazz, world music, some Rock, choir, as well as some wild but musical stuff which I have collected from around the world. That included some astonishing Chinese music such as opera and vocalists. I was glad to know you liked all. We basically enjoyed every piece that we played because I do not like to waste time on any less than perfect stuff, so I did not bring anything sounding less than spectacular. The stuff that you played also was an equal match as well. The sound was simply glorious no matter what we played.
The bass was powerful. I had taken a special CD with Chinese drums which are my favorite tool for room shaking. They did shake the shelves and the backdoor. The speakers however remained calm and without stress, which is their best trade.

After spending a couple of hours on digital, we moved on to analog. I really enjoyed the Ella Fitzgerlad LP and other vocalists. The tone arm on the Gerard was the Reed arm. I was glad to hear the Ortofon sounding so well - since I have purchased one myself I do not think I will regret it. We played both the Rockport and the Gerard and made some interesting comparative observations. The Gerard sounds awesome too but the Rockport is without any contest. At the end it was clear that the Rockport is better even though the Gerard has some interesting characteristics in its own way. The A-90 was played on both the tables with different VTF. As you mentioned in a separate thread, the VTF on the Gerrad was less than 2.0 and it sounded good.

Finally, towards the last end of the four hour of focused, serious but joyful listening, the finale was “Jazz on the Pawnshop” played through the Studer. Befittingly, it was the best sound of the evening.

Criticism? Basically, none, even though I would have done a few things different myself. But it is your system so I cannot say anything. However, one suggestion which I have the urge would be to may be raise the midrange a bit (500-1K HZ range) or alternatively lower the bass, lets say, by 0.5 db. I think that should make the midrange gloom a bit more. I also think there can be a bit more flesh and body in the sound but that is perhaps I am used to good tube sound. My guess is you will eventually convert to tubes, may be when you upgrade in a few years to your next amp, but who knows :) But that is all really. It was very pleasant and wonderful evening, my friend. Thanks again. I look forward to your listening to my system.

gallant_diva March 17, 2010 02:25

hi Steve,

WOW! thanks for the kind words and your perspective on my system. i wish i had the wordsmith skills to communicate my observations like you can.

it was great to finally meet you. i've always enjoyed your website The Analog Dept. and as a visonary in regards to vintage tt's and their enjoyment i especially enjoyed your take on the Dobbins Garrard.

hopefully we can do it again soon.....you are welcome any time.

mikelavigne March 13, 2010 16:58

3/12/2010
Hi Mike.
This is just a follow-up on that listening session last Tuesday eve.

You did ask for my impressions, thoughts, analysis, etc. So here they are:

I've had some time to digest what I heard and thought it best to report before my memory, already too short, begins to fail.

That room is just right in dimension for what was going on. That is; listening to music with enough volume (loudness) to get the full effect as intended by the musicians and sound engineers that created those recordings. I didn't think to bring along my spl meter but I'd estimate we were listening at 75- 85 db much of the time and with peaks spiking up well into the 90's. High enough to get the effect. Low enough not to cause hearing damage.

We started out with a request, from me, for Brubeck. You pulled out the Classic Records 45 rpm "Time-Out" and played the disk with "Take Five". First we heard it on the Garrard, then the SP10 mk3. In this case the Garrard was truly impressive. What initially impressed me was the excellence of the overall performance. (The system performance, not the musicians, although the musicianship, as everybody knows, is excellent.) Desmond's alto imaged itself in the space between the speakers and then flew around a bit, seeming to duck behind the right speaker once in a while, only to come out again and play. Desmond's tone quality, an airy sweet highly refined sound ,no matter what it is played back through, in this system had a warmth to it yet seemed natural full and solid. Believable. Desmond was "there". Wright's bass was very strong. I think I noticed / sensed the upper woofers of those Evolutions quite a bit....in a truly positive way. Bass was strong, visceral and well textured and defined. Not exactly tight, but not loose. Just right, I'd think. It is odd that I tend to overlook the two key players in this piece; Brubeck's piano and Morello's drums, but I better not take them for granted. After-all, these are the guys laying down the odd beat time signature, the very foundation of the track. In this case Morello's cymbal work seemed extremely well defined, whole sweet, natural, sharply defined and with good hang time/decay on the ringing tones. His snare drum hits and foot pedal work produced percussive sound waves carried forth with immediacy and a good bit of energy. Brubeck's piano; yup he was there too. (Without Brubeck, you don't get the Dave Brubeck quartet.) The Ortofon MC A90, mounted on the Reed deserves much credit for this reproduction. I'd also note that it seems to get acoustic piano very well in addition to the other parts noted above. All of it, good stuff.

Dobbins has done some good work on the Garrard 301. My first impression is that --I wonder if I'll ever hear a better prepared Garrard than this! With the Reed arm, the A-90 cartridge, played through the DartZeel NHB-18NS battery powered preamp/phono-stage, The Loricraft motor controller, power supply, and with upgraded bearing, Dobbin's plinth, mods/upgrades, the new platter design, the Garrard becomes a machine that can not only reproduce the energy and sense of drive that we expect from an idler design of this type, but with a level of refinement and detail reproduction that I did not expect. Impressive. Good stuff.

The SP10 mk3. I'm disappointed that I did not get to hear this player at its best. Unfortunately the new replacement cartridge (to replace the broken Lyra Olympos..?) had too few hours on it for any serious listening sessions. Additional note; I suspect that MC cartridge loading on both the mk3 and the Rockport were not quite optimal. Perhaps a matter of load settings switching on the back panel of the Alnic phono stage being shared between them?

The music itinerary moved on to some selections you made which were quite satisfactory for me. The Albeniz....was it "Suite Espanola" , Decca SXL 6355, Speakers Corner re-issue..? This one has me intrigued. I may have to find a copy for myself. Then what was it...? ....something from Carmen, a re-issue of an RCA recording, New Philharmonia Orchestra (forget conductor) , then a few tracks off the "Take The A Train" Lp, a Japanese group recorded on EMI/Toshiba. The one track we heard, I thought, was a really interesting 'small combo take' on that classic Ellington tune. I'll probably seek out that Lp as well. Good listening there. I'm missing a few, I know but there was a blues tune with John Lee Hooker and Miles Davis! , The Doors, "Riders On The Storm", Van Morrison, "Into The Mystic". Huge sounding reproductions of those performances. Excellent sounding recordings. Then I requested another Doors tune, Willie Dixon's "Back Door Man".

Most of this played on the Rockport which I sensed, from my first listen, got closer to the the original master, and therefore the musical truth than did the Garrard. However that comparison isn't A to B due to the downstream electronics. Nonetheless, The Rockport digs deep into those grooves and extracts more music, and chunks of it that I suspect most of us haven't heard, even though we know the records.

The tape. The Studer A820. What a beauty, both in physical reality and in its sonic output. That sense of flow. The ease with which it projects a wide dynamic at you. You only get this from tape. Digital doesn't get it, though you'd think it would....in theory. I'd love to hear the Studer after the "head stage' is complete.

Other thoughts part I:
Those Evolution Acoustic MM3's produce a very large sound field. Listening position was near field. Just to frame it right, these speakers are tall. When seated the upper 15 inch woofers are well above the listener's head. So when I note that the sound stage exists between the speakers, it implies a large amount of space. Imaging is strong in that setup. With the volume boosted up to near concert levels, the sound reproduction is very, very large. This system can play "big". A truly entertaining and impressive musical experience awaits those who listen in this room.

Other thoughts part II:
I think at one point I posed the question, online in public; Is it appropriate to put a modern arm and cartridge on an ancient idler drive turntable. Would these mate well or would the superior detail reproduction of modern high end tonearms and exotic MC cartridges tend to reveal the weakness of the vintage designs? I think I've been answered with regard to Steve Dobbin's work on that 301. In that player you have the best of both worlds; details, air and space combined with that sense of urgency and explosive output as only an idler can do. However, in a more standard 301, I think my question may hold more weight. In any case, the Reed tonearm has my attention. And so too does the Ortofon A-90. Sexy to look at. Total immersion.

Other thoughts part III:
Every turntable in that line-up was outstanding in terms of energy output. These machines allow that sense of timing, that sense of immediacy and explosive energy.

Other thoughts part IV:
The DartZeel electronics is not too colored for my tastes. What it does, I really like.

Other thoughts part V:
Nice control over room lighting. It inspires me to do some work on that front in my own room.

-Steve

td160 March 12, 2010 23:26

my second Reed (with approx 60 hours on it) is on the Rockport

typo---i meant my 2nd A90, not my second Reed (even though i do have 2 Reeds)

mikelavigne March 12, 2010 00:14

A90 Alert!!!!

no, nothing wrong with my A90's. relax.

i would like to bring attention to an issue we discovered this past weekend we had 3 different A90's on three different tt's at the same time.....and .....they all had dramatically different ideal VTF's!

i have my first A90 which has approx 120 hours. it had been on my Triplaner/Garrard where we had found that 2.20 grams (as measured by a Winds gauge) was ideal. we had done this work when this A90 had about 90 hours on it. this past Saturday we mounted it on a new Reed 2P/Garrard and began our final set-up at 2.20 grams. we then spent the next 45 minutes (Steve Dobbins, Jonathan Tinn and myself) dailing it in. we went down and down and down....it just kept getting better. we never measured, just followed our ears. finally we settled on a VTF that was best. then we measured....1.55 grams!!!!

then we mounted Steve's A90 (with approx 40 hours on it) on 'the Beat' tt with a 10.5 inch Reed 2P. we went thru the same process and ended up at 1.91 grams.

lastly; my second Reed (with approx 60 hours on it) is on the Rockport and i had had it it at 2.20 grams. after those other experiences our eyes were openned. so we tried both heavier and lighter. we ended up at 2.06 grams.

all three of those experiences were last Saturday.

Sunday afternoon; before we packed up 'The Beat' we revisited the set-up on each tt. our prior set-ups held exactly the same.

note; we used both my Winds Gauge good to one hundreth of a gram and a similar gauge of Steve's which both calibrated to within one one-hundreth of a gram with each other. this was not an issue of questioned measurments.

we were all a bit confused by how we could have 3 so radically different VTF's on three same model cartridges. not only that; but the Ortofon A90 MC is likely the most consistent from piece to piece in actual contruction of any cartridge ever built. all three of these A90's sounded wonderful....marvelous.

my caution would be to keep your mind and ears open as to what VTF might be ideal for your A90. this is not onje of those times when you can be confident that another users experiences will be useful for your A90 set-up; ya gotta listen.

mikelavigne March 12, 2010 00:09

Mike,
Your words are way too kind. Thanks!
I hope to hear a system of similar caliber to yours sometime. I imagine it would serve as a benchmark for what can be attained.
Mike

mjcmt March 11, 2010 13:15

hi Mjcmt,

thanks for the kind comments on the Rockport, i do enjoy listening to it. if you are ever in the Seattle area you would be welcome to come by for a listen.

btw, i checked out your system pics....very elegant look and comfy places to listen and watch; congrats.

mikelavigne March 11, 2010 00:53

Your Rockport Tech is one nice looking TT. I love the mass, base and gorgeous arm. I will probably never hear one, especially in a system/room like yours. But it impresses me none-the-less.

mjcmt March 10, 2010 01:05

Zargon, i have no idea if it is the same, you'd need to contact Steve and ask him.

mikelavigne March 08, 2010 14:52

hi Henry,

thanks for the kind words.

i've known about Steve's tt project for the last 6 months or so, but i'd not seen it heard or it before. he was trying to intro it at CES but it was not quite ready so he brought a Mk3 instead. i think 'The Beat' has been in Steve's brain for a few years since the demand for Mk3's could not be met. also; Steve did feel that as good as the Mk3 was; it could be improved in certain areas. obviously; Steve had tried many many different approaches to optimizing the Mk3.

the bearing in the Mk3 is connected directly to the motor; in 'The Beat' it is isolated from the motor.....lower noise.

the drive system is direct drive. the motor is very high torque (higher than the Mk3), the torque can be adjusted. it uses an open-loop feedback system (the Mk3 uses a closed loop system) so it's not cogging.

it is not suspended; but has a constrained layer plinth which is mass loaded. sitting on the Grand Prix Audio Monaco shelf right next to the standard setting low noise Rockport i can tell you that it has very low noise......and alive sounding. thunderous base! to die for bass! 'what the hell was that' kinda bass.

the platter is layered, with the copper on top.

the price is $20k. the 'couple of' people who have heard it have bought one.

as far as additional information; i recommend contacting Steve directly; [email protected]

mikelavigne March 08, 2010 14:39

What you call "The Beat Power Supply" looks very similar to the Teres Versus Motor Controller. Same size and shape, same cooling fins, and the same switches. Are they the same?

Versus

zargon March 08, 2010 13:23

Nice pics, Mike...especially the last one!

-Sam

c1ferrari March 08, 2010 03:41

Hi Mike,
I think your listening room is simply among the very best I have ever seen. Congratulations.
The new turntable 'The Beat' seems to have come out of nowhere or did I miss something somewhere?
Could you please tell us a bit more about it? Drive system? Platter construction? Isolation? Cost?
Or will Steve Dobbins release some details somewhere?

Regards
Henry

halcro March 08, 2010 02:06

btw, The Beat motor is very high adjustable torque direct drive (higher than the Mk3), it's built like a tank, can be finished in any automotive color, and is made in the USA. the platter is copper topped like the Dobbins Garrard platter. it's standard with 2 arm boards.

mikelavigne March 08, 2010 01:31

ok. here's a curve ball. i've fallen in love with a (new) tt. here i'm having my best all time reproduced-music weekend.....and Steve Dobbins brings out his new 'The Beat' tt from Kodo. one meaning of Kodo in Japanese is 'heartbeat'.

Steve has had so much trouble finding Technics SP-10 Mk3's to go with his Mk3 plinth.....Steve has decided to build his own tt. i remember how much trouble it was for me to find my Mk3 (which sports a Dobbins plinth).

after spending the last 2 days listening to 'The Beat', the Garrard, the Rockport and the Mk3.....it's clear that 'The Beat' surpasses the wonderful Mk3 in every aspect of performance, while paying homage to it.....'The Beat' also looks the Rockport in the eye. i decided to purchase 'The Beat'. mine will be piano black, the beautiful red one in the pictures below is Steve's pre-production unit. i'm tradeing my Mk3 in on 'The Beat', Steve has agreed to allow me to use the Mk3 until my 'The Beat' is ready in a couple of months.

The Beat and Reed 2A 10.5

The Beat and Dobbins Garrard

The Beat power supply

The Beat joins the family

just a cool tt picture

last night we spent 2 hours listening to some un-named tapes. as good as the tt's sounded this weekend, the RTR tapes smoked um.

mikelavigne March 08, 2010 01:22

Mike,

Night shots look great. I'm sure after you paint them, they will look at least as good as the Skyline Diffusors on your front wall.

Thanks,

Jim

joneill March 07, 2010 17:23

Mike, Jonathan,

Just curious...any additional measurements? Wish Sonny and I were there, too :-)

Vbr,
Sam

c1ferrari March 07, 2010 16:55

Jonathan, Mike, the relentless persuit of perfection is again mindboggling! I guess the economy has been picking up in the US of A!

Certainly visiting Mike's room is on my list of "things to do before I die" ...

I guess, if that's with Mike's permission :-)

Have you tested your new decoupling devices in Mike's room yet? Can you compare them to Harmonix?

mtkhl567 March 07, 2010 15:48

Hi mike, read thru yr earlier thread abt dedicated length with equal length. What is the significant of that ? If it's equal length certain line will prob need to run in a zigzag manner. I did 8 dedicated for HT/2 channel system with unequal length based on position of my outlets- zigzagging thru my concrete wall is not very practical. Thanks

audioblazer March 07, 2010 15:23