this room and system is the result of 10 years in High End audio. my
system has been stable for a couple of years (except for transport and
amplifier upgrades within the same brand). the room has been in the
planning stage for about 18 months and i actually moved in a little over
a month ago.
my audio philosphy is to have the system get out
of the way of the event. i like as pure and simple a signal path as
possible and, at this point, prefer passive to active gain stages. i
love all the formats and enjoy having lot's of music.....vinyl is my
favorite but i listen to at least 60% digital. the new room really
reveals the benefits of SACD over redbook.
the system and room
truely allow the event to be recreated before me. i love the way the
speakers disappear and i am transported to another place/time.
i have choosen my cables, sources, amps, speakers to have as little of their own sound as possible.
recently, i upgraded my digtial transport from the modified Philips
SACD 1000 to the new emmlabs CDSD.....this was a significant step upward
in performance.
i have written an article in Positive Feedback regarding my room building experience.....here is a link;
new version of these cables, a big step over the amazing TRSC model i have used for 10 years. fantastic performance.
WADAX SA Reference DAC
Wadax Reference Dac----state of the art dac with 2 separate power supplies. the best dac i have heard by a good margin. below is a link to a thread about my Wadax experience.
Arya RevOpod isolation footer (32 used under the 5 Wadax Chassis).
height and tension adjustable. the Wadax dac, server, and server power supply chassis all use 8 footers, so it's critical to be able to adjust height and tension to have an even support for optimal performance. RevOpod's are unique in those attributes making them ideal for this use.
https://www.arya-audio.com/revopod
CS Port LFT1 turntable w/arm
air bearing platter and air bearing linear tracking arm; string drive with zero feedback dc motor, low pressure, low flow air system with zero noise air box.
world class musical flow, nuance and delicacy, combined with authority and ease. serves the music completely.
Esoteric T1 Turntable
magnetic drive/rim drive idler turntable with torque adjustment.
with the deletion of my NVS turntable, i was able to move the Taiko Tana active isolation shelf to under the Esoteric T1. this has upgraded the performance of the T1 significantly. objectively small changes, but musically quite profound up tics in realism and immersion. more nuance, greater music focus, better bass articulation.
https://www.esoteric.jp/en/product/t1/top
Esoteric G1X Master Clock
Master Clock Generator for speed improvement for the T1 turntable. significant improvement in music realism.
https://www.esoteric.jp/en/product/g1x/top
Durand --Tosca tonearm.
gimbal bearing design. Tosca is on the Esoteric T1 turntable
Primary Control 12" FCL tone arm
Field Coil Loaded uni-pivot tone arm. with power supply. mounted on the Esoteric T1 turntable. amazing natural and very high resolution tone arm. link below.
12 inch tonearm, stainless steel. used for the Sumile mono cartridge.
https://glanz.tech/e/collection/mh1200s1000s900s/
Experience Music/Intact Audio phono corrector + silver wound MC Trio SUT combo for three different tonearms.
bespoke tubed phono preamplifier. silver wound, with custom dual power supplies.
https://myemia.com/LR.html
LFD -3- Phono Cables DIN to RCA
3 sets of very high performance phono cables. amazing performance. built by Dr. Richard Bews in the UK.
one cable uses a DIN to RCA short Dongle + an RCA to RCA interconnect. the Dongle improves the performance of the DIN connection. details at the link below.
two Etsuro Golds, ---a pair of Reference MC Phono Cartridges.
duraluminim (A7075) body, 24 carat 'Kinpaku' Gold Leaf finish, diamond cantiliver. .3mv output, 4 ohms. these are both special versions of the Etsuro Gold.
one is mounted on the CS Port linear tracker.
one is mounted on the Primary Control FCL arm.
finest cartridge i have heard by a significant margin. WOW!
Audio Technica MC-2022 60th Anniversary cartridge
uses the unified stylus cantilever design. which results in extreme lack of distortion and linearity. remarkable neutrality and ability to dig out detail and keep it natural and musical.
https://www.audio-technica.com/en-us/at-mc2022
Murasakino Sumile Mono phono cartridge
MC cartridge for mono records, .04mv output. tracking force 3gms. finest monaural cartridge i have heard. competes on musical refinement with the top stereo cartridges.
Ampex twin ATR-102----one 1/4" and one 1/2" reel to reel master recorder
hot rodded by ATR Service Inc----Andrew Kosobutsky. significant upgrades over stock. each interfacing with hot rodded Ampex MR-70 preamps. the new tape deck performance standard in my opinion.
active isolation under 5 separate components: (1) the NVS turntable, (2) the MSB dac, (3) the darTZeel preamp, (4 + 5) both darTZeel mono block amplifiers. custom modifications by Taiko Audio add a linear power supply plus panzerholtz top layer + Daiza platform to provide full frequency resonance attenuation to each platform.
Taiko Audio Daiza isolation platform--22 used in the system
Panzerholtz Platform with spiral cutouts reducing mid and high frequency resonance while retaining life and energy and not changing tonality.
22 Daiza platforms in the system of various sizes under every piece of the signal path.
Evolution Acoustics 'system' power cables
a new version of the TRPC model i used on my darTZeel 468 mono blocks for the last 10 years. a big step up.
Sablon Audio King power cord
used on the Wadax Reference Server power supply.
https://www.sablonaudio.com/power
Absolute Fidelity power interfaces
power cords specifically designed for either motors (tt and tape decks), amplifiers, and components. 11 in the system.
Tripoint Audio Troy Signature
Grounding box for chassis grounding the darTZeel 458 mono block amplifiers + grounding the passive main towers of the Evolution Acoustics MM7 speaker system.
Tripoint Audio Elite
Tripoint Elite grounding box. this does chassis grounding for my sources. it uses a a pair of Tripoint Thor SE Master Reference ground cables for my dart preamp and the MSB Select II dac. there are also 4 Signature Silver ground cables to the two arm boards of the NVS tt, the power supply of the NVS tt, and the SGM server.
Equi=tech 10WQ
10kva balanced Isoltion transformer and distribution panel.
Furutech GTX-D NCF Rhodium duplex outlets
10 in the system. used with 10 Furutech covers and frames. uses NCF (nano crystal formula) material to reduce noise by emitting negative ions.
Wave Kinetics A10 U8 decoupling footers
8 sets-of-4 in the system for individual tuning of each piece of gear.
Auralex T-Fusor diffusers
i use 20 of these. 6 each on the front side walls, and 4 each front ceiling and rear ceiling.
Klaudio Record Cleaning System
automatic record cleaner
Acoustic Revive RL-30 mKIII CD-LP demagnatizer
for demaging any disc.
Furutech DF-2 LP disc flattner
will remove warps from Lps
Audiodharma Cable Cooker, Anniversary Ed.
will cook any cables
Winds ALM-01 Stylus Force Gauge
easy accurate, repeatable, measurments.
i-Tower by Koncept LED floor lamp
(3) are used. best audio light ever. 2 'warm', 1 'cool'.
Quietrock THX 545 drywall
specialized drywall with a 1/4" metal layer. used in my front sidewalls to establish proper room boundaries.
actually, coming from a mastering engineer and based on our previous conversations i very much appreciate what you said, thank you. i also feel it's very close.
my contractor will be adding some Quietrock at the edge of the stud wall toward the middle of the room (a 30" section missed before because of the taper of the stud wall) which we did not do before. then there will be the added mass of 3/4" maple finished plywood over the whole surface. those two things ought to further even out the response below 80hz.
I was in Mike's room yesterday and for the first time was able to relax and enjoy the music without hearing the equipment. Bass actually "charged and pressurized" the room for the first time. That was my first observation. My second observation was everything sounded more relaxed. I'm sure the monoblocs didn't hurt either! I didn't get a headache like I usually do and would say the room/speakers are about 98% there. Just a little more tweaking to put it over the top!
i did take some time today to move around some cartridges.
i moved my newest A90 from the Technics/Reed to the Rockport, and then moved my 'just' updated (free replacement) Allnic Verito 'Z' to the Technics/Reed. i've been listening to the Verito on 'Nojima Plays Listz' while i've been typing here and listened to 'For Duke' before that. it's only the first 90 minutes or so but this is quite a different cartridge compared to my last Verito 'Z'......waaay more refined, more open on top, and more apparent detail....at least to the extent that these 2 Lps can tell me. my room may be shut down for up to a week with construction tomorrow, but after more hours i'll update my perceptions on this.
i really have not yet listened much to the A90/Rockport but it sounds like it will be a very good match.
as a few above have mentioned, my room has taken some significant steps forward....and this is really a mid-point in the process as some re-building is still on tap for this next week.
thanks Jazzdoc, for the very eloquent kind words. that was basically the room with a 'cowboy' setup and adjustment done by me to get a feel for things. the speakers back where they had been, no real investigative approach. that was Thursday night.
Friday jtinn drove up from Portland and spent late friday night, off and on all day Saturday, and some even Sunday am measureing and adjusting. my perspective is that where it's at now is quite a ways from what Jazzdoc heard on Thursday night. as jtinn mentions, the room is no longer holding back things in a musical sense. yesterday we had visitors all day (and night) listening so i did not really get a chance to sit down and listen by myself and get a full grip on things. today has been mostly a 'wife' day (she's earned it and then some) so i've not spent much time listening.
the room did measure very flat from 80hz on up with the speaker adjustments set to flat with the speakers in their previous postions. the suckout at 30hz--50hz is gone. there are still issues to deal with in the bass.....most of which jtinn was able to adjust out so listening it's pretty damn good. but since there is still finish work to do we did not really move the speakers around the room to see if we could find a better overall balance. so the real 'heavy lifting' speaker set-up will wait a few weeks until the work is complete.
if things never got any better than what i'm hearing right now i'd be very happy.
What a nice difference in the room. The sound had great life to it without being slappy. Bass was deeeeeep and tight and the midrange had detail without being etched. There was a wonderful liquidity that was very involving and natural. Everything you played seemed to have more air around the individual instruments, especial;ly human voices.
I was lucky enough to visit Mike's for a short listening session this weekend. I've been fortunate to visit a number of times and have a good feel for his system but I'm still processing the rather amazing change in the character of the overall system (room + equipment).
It's difficult to describe without appearing to be a hyperventilating, audiophile sycophant, but I must say that the seemingly minor changes are nothing short of transformative. Previously system/room was always a great sounding STEREO; meaning it did all the audiophile things. Occasionally with great software, you could close your eyes and half forget that you weren't listening to a collection of equipment. But now, it's all there; including elements of dynamic range, spatial textures and nuance that were previously missing. With most of the software, even LPs of lesser quality, you're no longer listening to a stereo system, rather, you are listening to musicians performing in space that often enveloped you in music.
The minor room configuration changes have unleashed the system and allowed it to approach its' full potential; akin to unhitching a trailer from a Ferrari. It ain't perfect...yet. But these small changes have taken things to a different level and it's BY FAR the best sounding system I've ever heard. As Bobby Jones once said of Jack Nicklaus, "He plays a game with which I am unfamiliar."
the idea to stretch pool liner over the bass traps likely died completely a week or so ago; but it was looking less correct for the last few weeks.
for the last 18 months or so i had been convinced that the room was overdamped....and last January i had asked Chris Huston about what i could do. he suggested the pool liner idea as cheap and easy and reversable as a way to go. then 7 or 8 months ago we did some measurements that showed this large suckout at 30hz-50hz on the right side of my room. three weeks ago i called Chris again as i was ready to proceed on making the change and i mentioned the suckout to him. he immediately switched gears and suggested that the wall structure behind the right side of the room was likely causing the suckout and before we did anything else that needed to be addressed; which we did with the Quietrock. after removing the bass trap to install the Quietrock and then listening it was clear that no further bass trap was needed and so no pool liner to change it.
of course, you are correct. everything is inter-related.
as things get changed all bets are off and one needs to slow down and both enjoy and reflect on both the beauty and the why.
sometimes what is best for the signal path or power grid or resonance control must be balanced by acoustical issues and vica versa.
last night and this morning i watched and assisted my friend Jonathan dialing in the speakers; including measureing and moving the speakers and changing the many speaker adjustments on the Evolution Acoustics MM3's. tiny changes in set-up causing significant performance changes.
when i left for work an hour or so ago that process was going forward full speed. i'll only hint at this point that the performance of the room/system is better by many degrees than it was yesterday or really any previous time.
when my room project is over i will share about some recent small items i'm using which have had meaningful positive effects. right now as the big picture is changing i'm waiting for a more stable basis to fully judge these items.
Mike, Not to argue the point but every thing in the room will affect the sound. Whether you can percieve it, or if you decide not to hear it that is something else. When doing critical listening I have learned that taking your eyeglasses off can make a dramitic change in what we percieve. I remember on a project listening to "flocking" on a baffle to determine which application sounded better, and then someone came into the room and the sound changed! I made the radical suggestion to get people thinking. Every piece of equipment and furniture acoustically effects the sound you might percieve. An ideal listening environment (as you are attempting to create) would have no equipment in it, just the listener. Of course it's always fun to look at the blinking lights, and I admit leaving the room to change a record could become a real drag. An interesting thought to ponder when considering an "all out assault" on Hi-Fi. I think your room is beautiful and I imagine sounds the same, just be careful when making changes and take it slow.
there is a very good reason my gear is not between my speakers; it cannot ever help and could hurt. as far as amplifiers; even large one's are small enough and heavy/dense enough to have little affect when sitting on the floor. not much tweeter or mid-range action along the floor at 10"-12" off the floor, and any refelctions would be quite random and long enough in time that they are very likely in-audible. low requencies should not be affected by an amp sitting on or near the floor in the middle of a room. it will not absorb low frequencies.
OTOH dealing with floor borne resonance in an amp is much more important and must be dealt with.
Mike, One additional,very radical idea for condideration; It has long been a dream of mine to "dig a hole" in the listening room floor to hide the big lumps of metal that interfere with sound comming from the speakers. Have you ever noticed the change in sound when you move an amp 6"? Of course the radiation pattern of the speaker and reflections from the boundries play a major role, but when a speaker designer goes to great lengths to control reflections from the side of the cabinet it makes you wonder why we think putting a rack full of equipment between the speakers or even a large amplifier on the floor won't screw up the sound....
Mike, Sounds like a plan. Making major changes to your listening environment sounds like fun! It's also far easier than what seems to be my recent history where I just move to a different home, in a different state. But either way it's an adventure! Remember "It's the journey not the destination"
my contractor already has cut pieces of Quietrock 545THX as inserts into the window cavities and they are currently mounted into the widow cavities. these inserts are currently wrapped in garbage bags to keep them from making a mess. my plan is to face them with maple finish plywood same as the wall and even add some diffusion onto them to match that portion of the wall. i have rope handles on them now to be able to move them around as they are quite heavy.
my view is that i have acoustically a new room and prior 'truths' about it regarding speaker location and set-up must be re-learned. and even it will need to be re-learned again after the diffusion has been installed.
Mike, Remember any measurements are of the Loudspeakers you presently are using in a specific location in your room. When you change speakers your room might take on a completely different character. Another way to think about this is that the loudspeaker (drivers) are actually in TWO enclosures; the one they're bolted to and the one they "play" into! This might seem pretty basic but it's sometimes easy to overlook as we chase the "perfect" loudspeaker and the "perfect" listening room. The best we can hope for is an acceptable synergy between them, therefore your idea of moveable panels could have merit if you think there might be further system changes. Looking at your photo again I can't help but notice the two huge bass traps in the form of windows, are you doing anything with them as far as tuning?
Thanks for the info at HTS...I'm going to check it out!
Glai,
An A810 is a terrific piece...congrats!
Mike,
"i know that subjective feedback does not take the place of measurements, but measurements also do not take the place of subjective feedback either. it does not matter if it measures well if it does not sound right/good."
you are dead on correct. i keep saying i'm going to measure and then i don't. i have a Phonic PAA3 that i know i can use if i give myself enough time to get comfortable with it again. basically i get home and start to listen, the time flys by, and i don't get around to measuring. then i promise to do it the next night. this weekend jtinn will be here and if i don't get to it by then he will do it.
thanks for the suggestion on the software. i have a local friend who designs speakers (ownes a well known speaker company) and has a software suite that can do lots of special things like waterfall plots and such. i'll likely get him here too at some point. if i put my mind to it i could download the software and get on with it. more likely i'd get someone a bit more techie than me to do it for me.
tonight i have three 'golden ear' friends coming over. they are all familiar with how my room has sounded in the past and all have had issues with the bass performance from time to time.
i'm looking forward to some critical feedback.
i know that subjective feedback does not take the place of measurements, but measurements also do not take the place of subjective feedback either. it does not matter if it measures well if it does not sound right/good.
Hi Mike, I am looking at your system and reading your comments on tuning the room. They are interesting and I am looking forward to you posting a graph of your inroom freq response.
I would like to make one suggestion and that is to change you chair. A high back chair is acoustically the worst to listen in. Use one of the Barcelona chairs. They may not be as comfy but I bet you system would sound better. I am sure that you can measure this!
You mentioned that you had to wait for someone to come measure you room. May I suggest that you may want to start performing your own measurements. There is a great FREE program called Room EQ Wizard or REW (for short). It is available at the Home Theater Shack, for free. It is easy to download and they only thing you need at the most basic, yet still quite capable, level is a Radio Shack mic. You can always spend more and get calibrated results from 20 to 20k! Which, with your system, I would recommend spending the required $200 or so for a calibrated mic and SPL meter.
This way you can make your changes and correlate them with the REW measurement. It also does waterfall graphs, RT 60 times and impulse among its many other features.
There is plenty of help over at the HTS for the REW program, I have not seen anyone not be able to figure out how to use the program. There are also plenty of knowledgeable guys regarding acoustics.
Bob, PHP143 If the first one hundred db suck, why continue?
tonight i'm back listening to the bare Quietrock; all the fabric panels are removed again. the music is alive again and i'm really loving it.
i know i'm getting a little ahead of myself; but today i had a vision from 'room fetish heaven' about how i should finish my project. i've been trying to figure out how i can retain all the musical energy i'm now hearing and also have the room look right. i had been figuring i needed to find an acoustically transparent cloth to put back on the frames to replace the heavier but energy robbing bass trap cloth. i've been concerned that i will go to lots of effort and expense to find the fabric, choose a color, and have it installed.....only to conclude it still is absorbing too much high frequency energy. i have to 'hide' the Quietrock and diffusion i will be mounting on it......or do i?
if you look at my room pictures, you will notice that there is a 12" baseboard running around the room.....including under the fabric panels. under the fabric panels (which are now removed) this baseboard is attached to a stud wall. this stud wall angles away from the Quietrock wall surface as it travels toward the front corner of the room. my 'vision' is to simply build a shelf at the top of this baseboard (matching the shelf at the front of the room under the rounded diffuser) and then simply cover the Quietrock with maple finished plywood (which is the material used in the rest of the room surfaces). i would then mount diffusion directly onto this finished maple plywood. i would likely have tracks built into or onto the plywood to allow diffusion panels to moved around on the side wall for adjustment. most diffusion panels are approx 2'sq so i'd have the movable panels sized at 2' x 4' covering the 2' to 6' level which is where mids and highs would be significant to the imaging and tonal balance.
this approach would be simple and relatively cheap to complete. i won't have to match fabric colors or wonder about fabric acoustic transparency. and i'll have forever to adjust the diffusion since it won't be covered up by fabric panels. i can easily try different types of diffusion too.
i've not yet measured the the room so i'm a bit premature. there may be some fundamental problem that gets in the way of this plan; but i'll be surprised if this is not exactly what i do.
in the back of my mind i've been afraid of messing up the coherent look of my room design; which i was prepared to do to get the sound right. this appears to be best for sound and also honor the look.
RTR tape, particularly with a top level RTR deck and exclusively 1/4" 15ips master dubs, takes a long-term view to be justified. it takes awhile (and some significant $$$'s) to aquire enough software to reach a level of comfort that the effort makes sense. you also need to put some effort into tapping into the tape underground; which is not a www forum subject matter.
if one is willing go to this effort; it will be rewarded.
it's not for everyone.
in the end it will still end up costing much less than what top level vinyl gear and Lps will cost, and it will humble even the best vinyl performance.
After my last comment I decided to be quiet, so I turned on my record player and listened to an old Harry Partch record "Delusion and the Fury". Do you have this in your collection?
Idos,
thanks for suggestion.....and no, i don't have it. i did read about it and it does look like a fun listen, so i just purchased a sealed one off ebay. i'll have it in a week or so and i'll listen and comment.
new interesting music is the best thing about this hobby, and any suggestion is like a gift from the heart. i'm spending all my meager bucks these days on the room improvements and a few other pieces of gear and the bad thing about that is my aquisition of new music has slowed down to a trickle.
