That was a very nice right up. Is this just a cd sacd player or does it play DVD's as well. I have the DV50s. I know, I wont even begin to compare but for me, it sounds nice. I am hoping that the GP rack will maybe allow me to get a bit more out of it.

mikeduke June 02, 2008 12:16

My friend Ted Smith was one of the people i had called yesterday when i was raveing about the Playback Design and concerned i had lost it. Ted is one of my audio mentors and a real expert on SACD multi-channel (he owns 4000+ SACD's) as well as, among other talents, a digital audio work station designer. Ted posts on Audioasylum and is a Board member of Audioasylum.

Ted and i did connect this morning and Ted came over mid-day today to hear the Playback Design MPS-5 and brought over his EMM Labs CDSD and DAC6e for direct comparison with the PBD. Ted agreed to allow me to post a link to his post on the High Rez Board at Audioasylum concerning his impressions from our session earlier this afternoon.

Ted's post

i wish i could write like Ted.

mikelavigne June 02, 2008 03:53

Wow. Sounds like a real winner there. I know I am going to get it :), are we approaching Rockport level?(duck).

the Rockport is safe.....in fact very much so.

top level digital is moving down that road toward a more analog sound. the Playback Design MPS-5 gets closer on some levels. until you play the same disc on vinyl you would say it cannot get THAT much better.

and then it does.

today a good friend brought his EMM Labs CDSD (with USB) and DAC6e over to compare. this is what i owned for three years and then replaced with the EMM Labs SE combo. so it did allow for a valuable reference.

i will wait to comment myself until he comments.

mikelavigne June 01, 2008 22:38

Wow. Sounds like a real winner there. I know I am going to get it :), are we approaching Rockport level?(duck).

mikeduke June 01, 2008 21:47

i have copied below a post from yesterday afternoon at 4 hours into my listeing to the new Playback Design. this was posted on the Review thread section. as those typically quickly die here on Audiogon i will post here on my system thread too.

*********************************

now at approx 4 hours and my whole digital reproduction reference is significantly changed.

my above comments related to the first couple of hours; as i studied the manual i had a very familiar disc playing on repeat, Burmeister II. i had heard how things were changing cut by cut. then i took some time to post my very 1st impressions.

45 minutes ago i started playing some of my best reference discs; and i must now state that i have never heard any digital that has this level of resolution, while having a wonderful combination of solidness and bass slam, and with a wonderful ease and naturalness. i hear far into musical textures, each musical line has it's own space and decay and transient events are superlative and unique in my digital experience.

i have heard a few digital masters played back and this tops my recollection of those experiences.

i will stop for now as where do i go from this.

anyone who has one of these on the way is going to go nuts when they hear it. i just called a couple of friends to see if i could get someone here to make sure i've not lost it. they didn't answer.

i could be mad.

stay tuned.

*********************

mikelavigne June 01, 2008 17:46

ok here are links to pictures of the Playback Designs MPS-5. i had to use a 70mm--300mm VR lens for this as my shorter focal length lens is not yet here.....and i'm not much of a photographer to begin with.....so please be gentle.

the MPS-5

back of MPS-5

on the shelf turned on

the remote

mikelavigne June 01, 2008 16:41

Mike, that's great news on the PBS CDP. Can you pls take a pic and post it? Would love to see what it looks like!

mtkhl567 June 01, 2008 06:55

Thanks Mike. I am looking forward to getting it in my syetem. Your views on the Playback sound very good. I also think it's cool that you can use it as a DAC for a server. I was looking for something like that myself. But not for a long time. I will of course give my views on Barry's system. I am very much looking forward to hearing his setup with the MM2's.

mikeduke June 01, 2008 00:26

1st impressions of the Playback Designs MPS-5.

briefly; The MPS-5 plays redbook and SACD's; it can also be used as a DAC for a music server as well as as a transport. i do plan on getting into server based music and so i like that part. the MPS-5 is also set up so it's software is easily upgradable.

Playback Designs is a new company. this is their first product.

at 1:40pm PDT today the fedex driver pulled up and dropped off the box.

finally; after 5 weeks without.....I HAVE DIGITAL AGAIN.

mine is one of the first 2 units shipped, and the first to arrive. i had heard a prototype a few months back and made a decision to replace my EMM Labs SE Combo with this new product. i had not compared the my EMM Labs Signature directly to that prototype; but i did like some things i heard and made the change.

first; the packaging was perfect and easy to unpack; i was playing music in about 2 minutes after openning the box. the player itself is very handsome; fit and finish are impeccable, a beautiful aluminum case, brushed silver metal on top and black anodized on the bottom. the remote is similarly elegant, and feels very nice in your hand. large, easy to use buttons and it's back lit.

the EMM Labs never had this level of industrial design; but prior to that i owned the Linn CD-12 and before that the Levinson dac and transport. performance is my only criteria; but i also enjoy audio jewelry assuming it can deliver the sonic goods.

how does it sound?

my very first impression in the first 30 seconds was big and bold. the Playback Designs uses a transformer based power supply instead of the switching power supply of the EMM Labs SE Combo. i wonder if that is a factor here.

i must point out that my EMM Labs SE Combo was packed up and shipped to it's new owner in late April. so my aural memory of that is 5 weeks old. OTOH i owned EMM Labs for 5 years, and the SE for the last 2 years. so my sense of that is pretty good.

i'm hearing a sound that fills the soundstage to a greater degree, and the bass seems to have more authority.

beyond that initial impression; like any brand new digital player; the sound started off somewhat congested, sluggish and closed in. after about 45 minutes things started to open up a bit and i could hear farther into the soundstage. it's now been about 90 minutes of play and things are getting more interesting.

it's still closed in on top but i'm getting more lively micro-dynamics and a bit more transparency in the mids.

i like where this is going.

anyway; i'll be breaking this baby in over the next week or so and will continue to offer impressions.

note; i have not yet treated any discs for this new player.

mikelavigne May 31, 2008 22:59

hi Mike,

you will love the Grand Prix rack system, it will be like upgradeing your gear to another level. i really like the fact that each shelf can be easily custom tuned to your gear.

please give us your impressions of the MM2's and Barry's system.

best regards,

Mike

mikelavigne May 31, 2008 22:17

Hey Mike,
I just thought I would let you know that I am going to get up to Barry's place(Transparent Music Systems) and put a down payment on the GP at the end of the month. Of course I will check out his system. I am looking forward to that very much. I think he has the MM2's.

mikeduke May 29, 2008 16:12

Some clarifications about this Super Tweak.
First, I want to thank Brian Kyle for co-developing the idea of creation such unique tweak based on tourmaline balls treatment!
Second, I want thank you Mike Lavigne for initial post and bringing his impressions about that Super Tweak to the audioworld. Cheers!

kosandr May 28, 2008 03:32

Greg,

sometimes groove space is an issue. but most Lps don't have this issue that i listen to. and the 45's i listen to have none of those issues.

the digital recording chains used in the session were very high sampling rates and word lengths.....176/24 and 384/32. even at that level of resolution the PCM digital was not transparent to the source.

OTOH it did sound great and should make a great K2HD disc.

mikelavigne May 28, 2008 00:36

Fred,

i will consider your suggestion about writing more on the recording session. it might be fun to do that.

i will be looking forward to get your typically well considered viewpoint on the Tourmaline de-ionizer. please try both digital and vinyl if you can. thank you for being open to my encouragement on this.

mikelavigne May 28, 2008 00:20

Mike,

Thanks for the brief look into the recording session with Winston at your home. I hope that when you have the time, you will compose a longer article which can be printed in Positive Feedback that goes into greater detail with respect to that recording session. I think that most of us would find that very informative and well worth reading.

I should be receiving my tourmaline de-ionizer today or tomorrow and will comment further after I have the chance to do some listening.

fcrowder May 27, 2008 12:56

i might mention here, notwithstanding that vinyl playback has maintained a superb reputation even to this very day, that i overheard a very interesting conversation years ago about cd playback even as HDCD was just getting off the ground. a couple of guys who knew recording engineers echoed their view that the 1st or 2nd generation digital masters sounding astonishingly good. but as the music went into its intermediary and final stages of remixing for the commercial release, at each additional step of running the music through the mixers/recorders it lost another layer of majic until the 16/44 disc only sounded "pretty good" as it was finally ready to be put in a jewel box. today some of those noxious layers of redundancy have been removed, and the machinery have been refined. i myself am in the blissful state where my vpi aries sounds about as good as my cd playback- one has a bit different flavor than the other, but both are fun to listen to. i did however hear an SME-30 years ago playing Jobim records over a pair of sonus faber extrema speakers, and it was really hard to get up and go to listen to another system (this was at a stereophile show). but... don't they (the turntable/arm) go for $40,000 without a cartridge?
geezo peezo... alot of my records are cutouts for crissakes!

french_fries May 27, 2008 10:50

Mike I agree wholeheartedly. I am however disappointed that over the failure of of the industry to marry audio and video on any large scale. DVD makes that possible. Our senses were designed to work in a complimentary fashion.

Groove space is a problem for vinyl. It puts limits on frequency extension that just do not exist for digital.
I have reluctantly come to the notion that digital has no limits. Unfortunately the people in charge seem to be going in the opposite direction.(lower sample rates rather than higher). Given what people are willing to pay for a vinyl setup, an all out digital recorder with extremely high sampling rates would seem possible. Some audiophile would buy it. "Build it and they will come.)

gregadd May 26, 2008 15:29

hi Henry,

WOW! i love the Sooloos. by far the slickest interface i have ever seen and at CES it did sound quite good although the system it was playing thru was not my cup of tea. just from a tactile and entertainment perspective how can anyone not want the Sooloos. and it's got to sound very very good thru the DCC2.

how long have you had the Sooloos and how does it compare sonically with the same format played thru the CDSD transport?

mikelavigne May 26, 2008 14:23

Hey Mike, re music servers....I use the Sooloos. Sound quality it is not a leap foward by any means, but it works when connected to a quality DAC (I use the EMM Labs DCC2). But the convenience, functionality and most importantly easy access to one's library just makes music even more accessible....at your whim. As most of us have large libraries, at times we forget we have certain discs or tracks, and using the music server...just browsing while listening, leads to a re-investigation and re-discovery. A great joy.

henryhk May 26, 2008 14:07

hi Gregadd,

if i gave any impression that i don't like digtial i apologize. i own 4000+ CD's and SACD's and i listen to digital 60% to 70% of the time. digital can be excellent, and i'm no format snob and agree that music is valid in any format on any level. i listen to music in a convertable with the top down, on XM satelite, on our whole house B&O system, my wife's i-pod nano plugged into her Apple HiFi, and on my dedicated 2-channel system. it's all good.

OTOH i take music fidelity very seriously and when possible i want to hear the music sound the very best it can. i also have strong opinions on which formats can deliver the best possible music as close to reality as possible, and have attempted to have the best possible sources in each format to help me with that. not only digital and vinyl, but this last year i have added reel to reel tape; to determine for myself how reel to reel tape compares in performance. this is a part of the hobby which happens to be important to me. OTOH this does not mean i look down on someone enjoying music from a server or in any setting. i see myself added server based music to my system in the near future to allow me to both enjoy it's conveinience and to investigate it's potential.

regarding specific attributes of music reproduction of which digital may have advantages.....i can say that at the very top of the heap in both digital and vinyl i would not give any advantages sonically to digital. i would say that digital can go deeper in bass extention and can go higher (beyond 45khz) in high frequencies. however, i much prefer bass reproduction and high frequency reproducton of vinyl. yes, vinyl can have some audible noise due to ticks, pops, and groove noise. but vinyl actually has greater 'practical' dynamic range for the music and when you listen to both formats that is easy to hear. you can hear way deeper into music with vinyl.

during the above described recording session where we played 12 hours of great vinyl and hirez digital continually; any opinions about things quickly fade away and reality rears it's head. the vinyl sounded more real......but the session was to make it possible for more music lovers to enjoy this music in digital form.....and vinyl is just not part of most music lover's life.

mikelavigne May 26, 2008 13:19

Can vinyl match digital in frequency extension, background noise and convenience? If you are talking about recently recorded 45 rpm 180-200 gram records played on top quality equipment, vinyl wins hands down. But for everyday music played on real world systems, I am very ambivalent about the difference versus the nuisance.
Vinyl wins if you are sitting in the sweet spot with your head locked in a vice. But if you are having a party, relaxing after work or dancing with your woman,digital may be just fine. For most young people given their investment in a computer,a music server may be the way to go.
Let's get the young listening to music first. They like my system and my music. They get turned off when the hear the price. Let's see, a music server to an integrated amp to a satellite speaker system. As their musical tastes improve, they become less active and their discretionary income increases they will follow the same path us old guys did. Moreover the women will get involved.

gregadd May 26, 2008 12:10

Tourmaline is also used to purify water in some health products. If you were to treat your drinking water with Tourmaline - could this be an even better tweak than just de-ionizing your media, equipment and cables - as you would be yourself de-ionized - or perhaps that is just all too much to swallow? ;-)

shadorne May 25, 2008 13:38

From noon to midnight yesterday I had a recording session in my room. Winston Ma was here with three pro audio guys recording off my Rockport Sirius III on two different digital recording chains, a Pacific Microsonics II (running at 176-24) and a DAD (running at 384-32) with the intentions of making a K2HD redbook cd.

Winston was recording a 70's classical Steinway piano recording off a 'direct-to-disc' Lp that had never had a master tape. We also recorded another direct-to-disc Lp with 'strings' playing a mix of classical and pop.

We introduced the tweak (see above 10 posts or so) at the beginning of the session, and quickly it was easily recognized as essential for getting the best sound. We went on for 12 hours of set-up, getting all the bugs out of the system, test listening, recording, re-recording, and re-recording some more. The tweak was used every time; twice I forgot to use it and it was immediately commented on how 'rough' and 'closed in' the sound was and we stopped and I tweaked it. We found that for optimal effect, we stopped the recording half way thru each side and re-tweaked the Lp. The intensity of this anaylsis was like a month of my listening as far as getting to the heart of the matter.

Two truths uncovered themselves to these 'bottom-line' pro audio guys.

1. the tweak works, and they even said that what it did made sense.

2. even very high resolution PCM digital cannot reproduce the magic of vinyl....in fact, it was not close at all. These pro audio guys were actually very surprised with this outcome. They commented that they had never been exposed to a very high level vinyl playback system before and it really opened their eyes.

I have never before been involved in recording and producing a record. It becomes a very tedious and relentless process. All 5 of us were continually listening and analyzing what we were hearing. There was no place to hide.

mikelavigne May 24, 2008 14:51

What lighting system u wld use with the hindsight u have now? However I do like your spotlight at the back of your seat. Am considering tracking light for the back of my room.

audioblazer May 21, 2008 05:17

Audioblazer,

if there is one thing i could change about my room, it might be the lighting. at the time of design i felt that halogen and other decorator lighting choices had a problem with adding noise. i therefore went with standard floods and spots. they work fine and don't make noise, other than the cages above the recessed lighting. i have filled most of the cages with foam and that did stop any noise.

i see some room designs and love how some of the cool lighting choices look.

functionally; my lighting is a joy. i use the Lutron 4 zone panel with remote and it has worked flawlessly. when i want to really light up the room i get plenty of light and i can quickly and easily program any of the 4 'scenes'.

mikelavigne May 21, 2008 02:27