Thnaks Mike. That is a fair answer.

elberoth2 March 27, 2007 09:24

Elberoth, fair question.

i intend to buy at least one of the Halcyonics 'soon'. even though my Opus investment is 'over-the-top' for sure i'm trying to stay revenue neutral with my purchases. i bought my first set of Opus 7 years ago with a great trade-in on my Transparent Ref XL. the 2nd set purchased 2 years ago was quite painful however.

if you speak to my wife she will tell you with conviction that $7500 is most certainly a lot of money for us too.

with the VR11's looming i'm watching my sheckles until i figure that out. should be 'soon'. i'm i bit speaker 'poor' at the moment.

mikelavigne March 27, 2007 01:54

Mike,

If you liked the Halcyonics platform so much, why didn't you get one ?

I mean, 7500$ is a lot of money for most of us, but If you can afford TWO sets of TA Opus SC at 30k each, two speaker systems (EA and vSR 11) etc, then I'm guessing that money is not an issue.

I'm asking since I'm interested in getting Halcyonics platform for myself.

elberoth2 March 26, 2007 21:01

Thanks Mike,

I am intrigued by the MM2 and it may fit just right.

I'm not going to make any changes until I get what I have into my new room. My current listening room is on the third floor and it's only stairs to get up there. I had to hire a moving company to get my Friebirds, at 300+ pounds each, up there. And I think the MM2's would collapse my floor!

My new listening room will be in my basement, and it's a walkout. So getting them there would be WAY easier.

I just have to hunker down and wait for now. Who knows what will be out then. But it's good to know that you think the MM2 is pretty much as good as the MM3. I am hoping they will be at the H.E. show in NYC this May so I can hear them (and see them)...

Happy listening,

-Matt

mattnshilp March 26, 2007 18:27

Matt; regarding your speaker comments; i was using the MM2 only for the first two weeks (until the top woofer arrived). my experience was that while there is a benefit of the top woofer module mostly in terms of additional bass dynamic ease the MM3 and MM2 sound about the same. the magic of the Evolution Acoustics is with the seamlessness of driver integration along with the purity of the twin Accuton ceramic mid-ranges. having heard the other speakers you mention and liking them all (and having had the Midi Exquisite in my room for 5 months) i would prefer the MM2 to any of the others. the MM2 would also allow you to add the top woofer module at any time you like. you could even buy the MM3 and then sell the top module if it turned out it was too much in the new room.

my guess is that in some rooms (with less than 8 foot ceilings) the MM2 might be a better choice. your room is not really that small.....my previous room was 12' x 18' x 10' and i used the Kharma Exquisites.

the other nice thing about either the MM2 or MM3 is that it has a sealed bass cabinet with a powered low bass subwoofer. this allows a wider choice of mid-powered amps but still produces very deep bass. the lack of rear port allows more set-up choices. i have found that i prefer the bass performance of a sealed bass cabinet although it typically also means a low efficiency speaker......but not in the case of the Evolution Acoustics.

mikelavigne March 26, 2007 14:01

I've been in contact with them and they are also coming out with an upgraded stereo version, the 175 U.R.A.

I'll check the web site out today.

For those interested, he said they would be coming out with these two amps (mono and stereo hybrids), and a pre-amp and phono-stage to soon follow. No mention of a new OTL was made - I think it's a much tougher market for them and a matching pre-amp is a more marketable and viable product from their standpoint.

My listening room will be quite small when it's built (about 18'6" X 13'4" X 8'6" high). I am intrigued by the MM3's, but I think they will be WAY too big for my small listening room. There are only five speakers in my list for when my room is eventually done: My current reference Talon's, the Dali Megalines, maybe the MM2 (i think it will fit my small space better), the new Pipedreams (I have not heard the newest version, but I always loved the older ones), and the Kharma Midi Exquisits. I need to chose a speaker that will sound best in a smaller room. I know the Firebird's will sound awesome in that size room (I have spoken with the gentlemen at Rives about this already and they will obviously be doing my room). I would assume they are pretty familiar with the Firebird since they bought the damn company. I am a bit hesitant to get the MM2's since I have heard over and over that the top woofer really brings the speaker together and makes it just right. Without the top woofer (basically, the MM2) it is great, but not as cohesive, full and musical as the MM3. I just don't want to put a speaker in that small room that will overwhelm it.

I'm really happy with my current electronics and have not heard anything better in my system, yet. But everyone who loves the Tenors seams to REALLY love the Dart's. So I would assume I will eventually try them out as well. I have seen many people say they found perfection in their Tenors only to replace them with Dart's and never look back. But the Vac/Tenor combo with the Talon's seams to be just right (in my crappy current room at least).

Oh, and the gent's at Tenor Audio DID say they will offer a trade-in program for owners of the 150/300 series so get them into the 175/350 series. But I have not received pricing yet. I think they are establishing a solid dealer network before announcing that.

mattnshilp March 25, 2007 19:17

Matt; i have been hearing about the return of Tenor too and had been checking the website almost daily. now today they have something new; a "350M Ultimate Reference Amplifier' available by custom order only. it looks essentially the same as the 300 Mono but with a thicker and more dimentional front wood panel....quite beautiful.

the 300 Mono and 75w OTL are still right at the top of my amp list. i do have interest in both learning about what the changes are and hearing the new Tenor for myself. i have no doubt that Michel and Stephane (and whichever of the other original Tenor guys) have taken their already wonderful products to a new level. personally; i am very happy to see this finally happen......both for the people and the products.

i'm sure your Tenor/Talon combo must be wonderful. i can remember the Talon Firebird with the OTL Tenors at CES in 2002.....even though the Firebird was a prototype it did many great things. the 150 should be about perfect with your speakers.

i admit to be curious how 350 watts of Tenor would sound with the Evolution Acoustics MM3's.....my 300's were gone by the time the MM3's arrived.

mikelavigne March 25, 2007 17:13

Have you heard anything about the new Tenor Audio gear coming out shortly? New stereo and mono hybrid amps as well as a pre-amp and phono-stage to follow. Maybe your beloved Dart gear may be dethroned by the very brand it replaced!!!! :-)

Considering the impact a positive review from you can be, I would give them a call and see if they would ship you a pre-production unit to audition in your uber-system/uber-room. I know I'd love to hear your impressions.

I currently am running a Tenor Audio 150-Hps, so I am intrigued by the company coming back from the grave, bigger and better (hopefully). As long as they keep their products from melting or blowing up, then I think they will do well this time... I'm kicking around upgrading to their newer stereo amp when it comes out, but I'd like to hear it first since I'm SO happy with my current Tenor amp. And I tried a TON of amps before settling in on this one and the Vac Rennesance Signature Mark II pre-amp it's mated to. Sounds amazing with my Talon Firebird Diamonds!!! But I can't wait to get the whole system into a Rives room (still a few years away, sigh!).

-Matt

mattnshilp March 25, 2007 03:23

Elberoth; my only actual in-room experience with the Halcyonics active isolation unit was when Will Wright brought it over to my room last fall as described in......

this review

to answer your question; yes, i believe that the technology of Halcyonics platform does result in an otherwise unreachable level of performance. what was so remarkable was how clear the improvement was.

i have chased resonance control for 10 years with all sorts of products (most of which Will describes in his review). my Grand Prix rack system had been as good as i had heard (not to say that other passive systems are not at that level). my Rockport uses actiive air pressure for isolation.

the Halcyonics unit went to another level of lowered noise floor, naturalness, ease, and focus. it was easy to hear and it only took about 10 seconds to hear it. this was just sitting on top of my Grand Prix stand; and i had not adjusted the foam pads of the Grand Prix for the additional weight of the Halcyonics. i would say that the degree of improvement of the overall sound more than doubled what i might expect from an upgrade. and it was all positive. the EMM Labs SE is already SOTA digital....this was beyond. my guess is that it is more significant than any improvement in transport mechanisms. the transport was truely completely isolated.

my mind boggles at what the effect might be if i were to have one of these units under all my electronics.

the one qualification i would say is that the foam pads on my Grand Prix unit were about 9 months old at that point; these are suppose to be changed once a year. when i did change them at about 15 months it made a difference; but not to the level of what the Halcyonics unit did.

i do expect at some point i will have at least one of these units; they are the real deal and what scientific research views as current SOTA.

mikelavigne March 21, 2007 13:41

Mike,

Could you share your expirience with the Halcyonics platform ?

You mentioned several times that you use or tried one, but I have never spotted any specific comments.

The Halcyonics unit is probably the most sophisticated solution to vibration control on the market today (and probably the most expensiveone too) so I was wondering how it translates to sound quality.

elberoth2 March 19, 2007 14:14

hi Matt, i am told that the 11's will ship 'soon'. stay tuned for the 'end of the story'.

the MM3's are wonderful. lately i've had some friends visit which have sonic tastes a good deal more in the 'warm and full' direction than my personal 'vivid and exciting' direction. i was quickly able to tweak the speakers to accomodate their tastes and yet the system still was alive and refined.

for the last few months i've just been listening to music.

in my Home Theatre i got a new front projector, the JVC RS-1, a new video processor (the Crystalio II), a 2:35-1 screen and an anomorphic lens (the ISCO III). last saturday night i had 10 video guys here comparing projectors. i love how the new picture looks.....

but really; all i want to do is listen to music.

;>)

mikelavigne March 17, 2007 17:09

Hi Mike,

Haven't posted in a while. I was just thumbing through your thread when I noticed that there's no Schweikert speakers there anymore...

Last I read you had sold your 9's and where waiting for 11's to come in.

Are they still being built or have you decided to keep the E.A. MM3's in your Ubersystem permanently? I know you liked them a lot but I thought they where temp's until the 11's came in.

-Matt

mattnshilp March 16, 2007 18:46

Mike, thanks for your input. Your answer to Conagie as to the types of music you prefer helped me too, as your listening preferences mirror my own. If you do bring in a big solid state amp I would be interested in what you hear and think.

Thanks Again,
Kelly

kss22558 March 08, 2007 04:42

Conagie; bring it on! i am 'fairly' open minded on music.

i mostly listen to almost anything that sounds good or scratches the particular itch i might have at that moment. there are areas of music where i have not really listened to enough to have developed a taste or knowledge. most pop/rock/alternative recorded in the last 20 years has flown below my radar....so if there is something that sounds 'like music' in that area i would be glad to try it. much of that i call 'angry music' and it does not appeal to me much as that is not the vibe i'm after. heavy metal or 'stadium rock music' has to be the very best of it's kind to appeal to me.

female vocal, anything acoustically recorded, guitars, horns, most classical, 60's and 70's rock, 50's and 60's jazz, blues, most (but not all) world music, and folk/bluegrass/ are my mainstays. i do own 'audiophile' 'pretty music' but use it mostly for system checks.

there is good and bad music in almost every genre.....i am always open to the good stuff.

mikelavigne March 07, 2007 14:02

hi mike
just wondering what kind of music do you listen to mostly? i might have suggestions for you. thanks

conagie March 07, 2007 07:59

Kelly, the darTZeel is more than adaquate on the MM3's in my room. since the mid and deep bass is powered by the ICE digital amp in the speakers the dart only needs to power from the upper bass on up. at 6 ohm and 93db efficient the dart really has no problem.

OTOH with a room like mine 'adaquate' and 'no problem' are not where i want to be if i can choose. most times one does need to choose between ultimate refinement and ultimate power and authority. there is no doubt i am getting ultimate of refinement with the single dart and MM3's. but clearly i'm not at an 'ultimate' level of power and effortlessness ease and authority with the single dart.

am i tempted to consider amps that might deliver more brute power for those 'moments'? yeah, a little......but not at the expense of the level of refinement and music the dart is delivering.

all that said; i may bring in some mega-watt brute to test the waters. i am curious how the MM3's would sound with lots of power. i have owned the Levinson #33's in the past and had the original Halcro DM58 in my room....so i am familiar with that direction. over the last 5 or 6 years i have certainly heard many systems with 'big ss power'. as much fun as many of those setups are.....i have not been tempted to go that direction myself.

i have not really considered what amp i might try.....but when Herve does make a more powerful version.....i'll be on that for sure.

mikelavigne March 07, 2007 04:44

Thanks Mike,

I figured thats what they where for. I think especially on a wooden floor that the pucks would be really important. I was really interested in what type of material the "pucks" were made of.

Thanks again for sharing your experiences with those of us that are learning and haven't had the experience with or the oppotunity to demo the type equipment that you enjoy. I have really enjoyed reading your thread for the past couple of years.

One more question if you don't mind. I think I read that you wished the Dartzeel had just a little more power for the MM3's and were hoping that they might build mono's in the near future. If you were looking for an amp now would you consider the Halcro's or the Boulder amp for the additional power over the Dartzeel?

Sincerely,
Kelly

kss22558 March 07, 2007 00:55

Dear Mike,
When you answer all these question are you listening to music at the same time and are you doing so with your eyes closed? Love your system

loxodrome March 06, 2007 22:35

upon re-reading my last sentance is unclear.

i meant to say that it was not worth my time to do a before and after comparison...not that the tweak was not worth my time.

mikelavigne March 06, 2007 17:44

hi Kelly, the Jena Labs power cords have an aluminum box which contains some sort of power conditioner. these boxes are well made and solid but are not firmly planted on the floor due to their light weight.

as i am a believer in resonance control my 'opinion' is that these aluminum cases likely would resonate if left 'naked'. i have a bunch of lead filled Walker pucks which with my Grand Prix Audio shelves i don't use. i felt that it would not hurt and likely help to 'ground' the metal cases with the lead pucks.

i must admit i did not do any before and after comparison; my viewpoint is that an overall approach of doing lots of little 'sensible' things yields an improved end result.....even if the benefit of the individual thing is not clear. this particular thing cost me nothing and just made sense.

it is possible that i might hear an improvement with this 'tweak'....but it's not worth my time or distraction from the music to do.

mikelavigne March 06, 2007 17:41

Hello Mike,

I've noticed from your pictures that you have one or more of what looks like some type of "puck" sitting on top of your Jena Labs Fundamental One power cords. Could you tell us what they are and what you feel the benefit you get from them are?

Sincerely,
Kelly Schmidt

kss22558 March 06, 2007 15:15

Paul, believe it or not I too found out about Terry Callier through Beth Orton's "Best Bits" EP. I was simply blown away by their duets, Dolphins which is a cover by Fred Neil and "Lean on me" a Callier original. As much as I liked the rest of the EP I was constantly drawn back to the duets and in particular to Callier's voice. So, much like Ms Orton, I went out and bought a Callier album and then found myself buying another and another and another.
He's as the Brits would say; "Differnet class".

What still staggers me is that not only is he a brilliant interpretive singer - check out his cover of Duke Ellington's "Satin Doll" on "I can't help myself", the way in which his voice seductively lingers over the lyrics slowing things down so that he's almost half a beat off only to slide back into step with the melody demonstrates fantastic skill - but he's also a wonderful guitarist with a truly immense gift when it comes to writing his own original compositions. There is a spiritual profundity about his songs and I guess the man himself.

To steal your quote;
"I was lucky someone lent me an album by Terry Callier. I listened to him and not much else almost constantly for a year. His voice became my anchor."
I love the last sentence. I think that just about sums up his impact on me. There are few artists that have the ability to genuinely move me. Terry Callier is one of them.
As for Beth Orton I guess I'd characterize her music as New Folk. BTW her new album is very good.

Warmest Regards,
J.

cfcjb March 04, 2007 01:00

Cfcjb, i made my list of your recommedations and am on the way to track some of those down; although i have some guys coming over later for a listening session so i don't have much time.

thanks again.

mikelavigne March 03, 2007 20:33

Jeff1225, thanks for the kind comments.

i have not purchased many records in the last couple of years but my intentions are to get back on that 'horse'. i need some fresh faces in my 'crowd'.

i accumulated my 6000+ Lps over 13 years; about 30% purchased new; mostly mail order....a few local when i could find them. about 10% for hard-to-find special pressings off ebay or audiogoN.

the other 60% i bought relatively cheap from various sources. early in my collecting efforts i regularly visited Goodwill and other thrift stores. after 4 or 5 years i had multiple good copies of almost everything that type of source would offer. i have frequented the various record shops here in Seattle and found some great records but in the last few years it has been tougher to find the good ones.

the Landing on Roosevelt and Bop Street in Ballard were main sources.....Goldies in a few of their locations as well as Second Hand Books in Crossroads were other sources.

i also travel 7 or 8 times a year for my business and many times would search new cities for vinyl.

i did purchase collections from a couple of friends.

i have sold maybe 9 or 10 Lps over that time; but only extra copies to friends that whined.

mikelavigne March 03, 2007 19:54

Hey Cfcjb, thanks for the tip on Terry Callier......I read this and sort of thought the name was familar, though I don't have any of his records. A web search showed him being on a couple albums I have by Beth Orton.

Don't know if you know her, a sort of folk/pop/???/something i don't know how to classify. Her second cd was an EP called Best Bit, and she had Terry Callier on there on two songs. She raved about him on the liner notes:

"I was lucky someone lent me an album by Terry Callier. I listened to him and not much else almost constantly for a year. His voice became my anchor." She met him after one of his gigs in London and ended up getting him to record some stuff with her.

She also has a track with Terry on her Central Reservation cd (from '99), which I really recommend. I think it is a great cd. I wore it out a few years back, and just found it and the Best Bit EP after reading your post tonight.

I lost track of her in the last few years, but she's continued to put out new records. I will have to pick up the new ones.

Terry does have a great voice, and I will seek out some of his records. Thanks for the recommendation,

paul

paul99 March 03, 2007 07:37