Videoht, tt playback is very dependant on the tt, cartridge and phono stage. i agree that compared to digital it has some degree of color. most cartridges are quite euphonic as are many phono stages that add bloom and warmth. as i mentioned i owned the Io and Io Sig and i own three cartridges that add warmth to varible degree; the vdH Colibri XWG, the Dynavector XV-1s, and the Koetsu Rosewood Singature Platinum. OTOH the phono stage in the dart pre is very neutral and my vdH Colibri XCP is totally neutral.... it has so much top end energy i need to lower the gain on my tweeter 2 db when i play vinyl (3 db for RCA Shaded Dogs).

pro studios do not have vinyl gear like mine. the conclusions they come up with are dependant on their gear. the measurements that make of dynamic range and noise floor do not jive with my experience. good vinyl on my system has a much lower noise floor and greater 'true' dynamic range than any digital. the analog tape based vinyl has waaaay more detail than any digital copy. my vinyl gear is not 'as' neutral as digital but it is quite close. and there is way more music to hear.

i'm doing the 'blind test' to have fun. it is an excuse to get together, listen to music, drink some single malt, meet some new friends, and maybe learn something. it is what this hobby is all about......like modding gear.

not exactly cosmic in significance but worth doing for sure.

mikelavigne May 15, 2007 14:32

Hello Videoht:

Dear Bigamp, I also aware about the available of Cesium Atomic Clock also. They use the attenna to lock up internal oscillator to Cesium Atomic pulse code. That's sell for USD 3,495. But please remind that the Rubidium or Cesium pulse code generate 10 MHz only. You need the other frequency divider circuit to generate 44.1 KHz, 48KHz, 88.2KHz, 96KHz, and other frequency also. And this circuit is very important in generating the precision clock frequency.

If you notice, Cesium atomic clock precision variance is 5x10^-12. Rubidium clock precision variance is 5x10^-11. But when it pass through Esoteric frequency divider circuit, the accuracy drop to only 5x10^-5.

At first, I think as you that Esoteric charge too much price for this master clock generator comparing to the one used in laboratory. But I have no choice since you need the best frequency divider circuit to generate the frequency that we can have.

In the market, you can also buy the Esoteric G-03X (USD 3,500), and buy the 10MHz Rubidium clock generator (USD 2,200) and hook it up together to generate a precise clock.

I'm certain they are all great products. And perhaps the Esoteric adds something the others don't. I have never tried any of them in my system. I just offer the suggestion, because Antelope claims a better accuracy than Esoteric.

To clarify, the Antelope 10M is a rubidium clock , like the Esoteric G-0Rb, and also has an input for a cesium clock signal. The Antelope and Esoteric both divide their rubidium clock frequency to 44.1, 96, 192, etc. kHz. Antelope 10M allegedly has an accuracy of +/- 0.03 parts-per-billion. Esoteric G-0Rb outputs same frequencies with an accuracy of +/- 0.05 parts-per-billion.

bigamp May 15, 2007 12:53

Dear Mikel, I think no need to blind test between TT and digital recording from TT. I bet on your side, Mikel. But I don't agree to do the wasting time test like that. Please remind that we play Hi-End audio for fun, and we want to conduct a very good sound from our Hi-Fi system. We are audiophile, not a gambler. There is no win or loss on listening to Hi-End system. I devote myself to develope a better and better sound quality through our Hi-Fi system.

Mikel, as I stated earlier, in final result comparing TT Vs SACD playback sound quality. At the end, no one win, it just depends on the mastering whether it is DSD digital mastering or Analog tape mastering. Very easy to try, just pick the Opus3 test 4 on the same title between TT and SACD, and listen. I bet TT will have a slightly better sound quality because they can do record mastering directly without run through D to A again. Next, pick Eden Atwood, Wave Bossa The Nova Session. I bet on SACD since they do this record on DSD mastering. So to do a master for record, they need to convert from DSD to analog again before doing TT mastering. So, it must run through D to A.

Ther is one funny thing about this behavior as I get it from my friend who was working in Studio recording, there is studio engineer, who want to test which one is better between TT and SACD format, so they just direct convert from Analog Master Tape to DSD mastering and TT record mastering, after they cut the master SACD disc and master TT record, then they play back and compare. They claim the SACD playback is very transparency and make no different from Analog master tape reel. Meanwhile, listen to master TT record, it is slightly different from Analog master tape reel, but he feels very comfortable and enjoy with the color added by Turntable, Cartridge and Tonearm. So, it depends on which one do you prefer Transparency or Color.

I think the reason for Audiophile to prefer TT is that the distortion created by TT playback system is very comfortable to our hearing system. For example, if you can't calibrate the cartridge to the optimum, you will slightly lose detail on Hi-Freq, and a bit blur on the bass, moreover an error on speed control will help color a human voice. Meanwhile, if the CD and SACD playback is not proper calibrated or the Transport design is bad, the distortion come in the form harsh and itchy sound, too much "S..S" on human voice, bass is too strong without harmonic which erritate our hearing system so much.

If you want to hear the distortion of the TT, very easy just pick the test disc for example hi-fi choice and check the running speed to be precise as much as possible and playback 1 KHz test tone, you will hear the sound modulate up and down like "E" "Eor" "E" "Eor" all the time. Anyway, the better the turntable playback system, for example, Rockport Sirius III or Vyger Indian Signature, the less "E" "Eor" you will hear. Some Audiophiles are very prefer this "E" "Eor" so much until they don't like Rockport Sirius III or Vyger Indian Signature. Meanwhile, the cheapest CD Player can reproduce 1 KHz test tone correctly, you will hear only stable "E". But this is not guarantee you will a good sound since this is just a single test tone. In real music playback, there is something else to account for like phase angle, harmonic distortion, impulse response, high amplitude distortion, bandwidth, dynamic headroom and more.

Like mine, I don't care what it will be TT or SACD. But I need it to get to optimum on both TT and SACD. I prefer both TT and SACD playback to get close to live concert, and can recreate the feeling of each recording studio ambience. That's why I recommend you to try this G-0Rb since it help closing the gap between TT and SACD. Now, in my system, Neither TT nor SACD is win, just having a pro and con on each format. With a proper SACD record, it will have a good thing of TT plus good thing offered by SACD.

As an audiophile freind, I wish you will enjoy listen to both format. That is my ultimate goal. :)

videoht May 15, 2007 11:55

Dear Bigamp, I also aware about the available of Cesium Atomic Clock also. They use the attenna to lock up internal oscillator to Cesium Atomic pulse code. That's sell for USD 3,495. But please remind that the Rubidium or Cesium pulse code generate 10 MHz only. You need the other frequency divider circuit to generate 44.1 KHz, 48KHz, 88.2KHz, 96KHz, and other frequency also. And this circuit is very important in generating the precision clock frequency.

If you notice, Cesium atomic clock precision variance is 5x10^-12. Rubidium clock precision variance is 5x10^-11. But when it pass through Esoteric frequency divider circuit, the accuracy drop to only 5x10^-5.

At first, I think as you that Esoteric charge too much price for this master clock generator comparing to the one used in laboratory. But I have no choice since you need the best frequency divider circuit to generate the frequency that we can have.

In the market, you can also buy the Esoteric G-03X (USD 3,500), and buy the 10MHz Rubidium clock generator (USD 2,200) and hook it up together to generate a precise clock. So, altogether still cheaper than G-0Rb alone - USD 5,700 Vs USD 13,500. But do you expect the same result, I don't know the answer for that. But one thing sure is that I have already opened the top cover to check the circuit inside G-03X and G-0Rb, I am willing to pay more for G-0Rb since the circuit design and quality of each component used in G-0Rb is much better than G-03X. Can you imagine the weight of G-0Rb is at 20 Kgs Vs 11 Kgs on G-03X.

My ulimate wish is that I will try to use the 10MHz Cesium Atomic Clock pulse to lock into G-0Rb to see the improvement over internal Rubidium clock generator. By far, I am very satisfy with the result of this G-0Rb. So, that would be my next step when I can't improve the other thing in my system.

One thing I want to make note that I am not recommend this G-0Rb to the standard system or sub-optimum system as it is not worth money investment. You need to use this clock in the ultra hi-end system to make a quantum leap in sound quality. Remember, it doesn't change the tonal balance if you use it correctly. It will only portray a 3D sound stage clearer, more immense in timing and emotion, and more delicacy in inner detail. This would be very little or difficult noticeable in a mid or lower high end system. But for my system which use 6 ways speaker like Quintessence Stealth SV, it is a huge improvement that can't get from doing other thing.

I think Esoteric is quite fair for their price, if you notice that DCS sell Verona 0.1ppm accuracy at USD 6,500 meanwhile Esoteric sell G-03X 0.1ppm accuracy at USD 3,500. Which one do you is more reasonable? Or you can buy much cheaper Apogee Big Ben at USD 2,000 with about 2-3 ppm accuracy.

I hope this will help you clarify your question!

videoht May 15, 2007 06:38

the 'Game' is on.

a year ago i challenged a gentleman over on the Vinyl board on audioasylum. he accepted my challenge. due to issues on my end (my daughter getting married) we delayed it a year.

read about it here

John Ellison stated many times that digital recordings properly made from a tt would be equal (and indistiguishable) from hearing the tt direct. i strongly disagree that any digital (whatever the source short of a digital master) can compete head to head with top vinyl.

i have purchased John's airplane ticket and he will be at my home Friday June 22nd and Saturday June 23rd for this 'test/showdown/exercise'. whatever the result it should be great fun.

John is a very knowledgable guy who knows his technical stuff. he is bringing all sorts of his test gear and recording gear. if you are a Vinyl Asylum regular you already know and respect John.

anyone who wants to show up and watch/listen/kabitz is welcome. i live in the Seattle area.

i am looking forward to learning alot. and i may just need to eat a bit of crow......or not.

stay tuned.

mikelavigne May 15, 2007 01:39

I don't know what the $US price will be on the Esoteric G-0Rb, or its accuracy.

FWIW-Antelope Audio's Isochrone 10M rubidium clock costs $2200 and is more accurate (+/- 0.03 ppb) than the $13K Esoteric G-0s (+/- 0.05 ppb). At this price, it's a no-brainer, or at least worth a test drive to push the envelope.

bigamp May 14, 2007 18:22

Dear Mikel, thank for interesting in Esoteric G-0Rb, here is the connection layout:
From CDSD to DAC6e, just connect ST-Glass Data out and ST-Glass Clock out to DAC6e as usual. And set the DAC6e clock switch to be "Ext" position on front panel. So, you use only 2 ST-Glass cable instead of 3 ST-Glass.

From Esoteric G-0Rb to CDSD, just connect one BNC 75 Ohm RG-11 Digital cable from A1 BNC output to BNC clock input on back of CDSD. And switch the clock input from "Opt" to "BNC", and switch to "75 Ohm" on back of CDSD. By doing this, the internal crystal oscillator of CDSD will synchronize to Esoteric G-0Rb clock signal, and the internal clock of DAC6e will synchonize to internal clock of CDSD which is now run at much more procision 0.00005ppm.

Oh, I forget to tell you that just set the "A" clock output to be 44.1 KHz only.

But if you use DCC2 instead of DAC6e, just connect only one ST-Glass data output from CDSD to DCC2. And connect the BNC clock signal cable from G-0Rb A1 BNC output to CDSD BNC clock input, and G-0Rb A2 BNC output to DCC2 BNC clock input. Don't forget to set the clock switch on front panel to be "BNC", and "EXT".

In theory, connect to DCC2 which clock out direct from G-0Rb to DCC2 should yield a slightly better result, but I haven't test it yet.

I hope you will have a chance to try it soon, but please be noted that it take about one week of continuous run before the Rubidium will extremely stable. So serious comparison should be started after one week. Like in my system, 3rd day is worst sound quality, after that it continue to improve more and more. And also, you can tune a speed, timing, impact, detail by changing the AC power cord, BNC clock cable, isolation base shelf. It has so much effect on sound quality which is very amazing for me because it is just only the clock signal with extremely precision clock inside.

I hope you will enjoy it like I do with Emmlabs equipment.

videoht May 14, 2007 17:13

Dear Stereoteipei,

Esoteric now still sell the VRDS-Neo mechanism as an OEM product, but it is quite expensive and you need to order it in a big volume like 30+ units. Now, DCS use this VRDS-Neo in their new top model transport. As I mention about the APL, actually they can base on Esoteric X-01SE, but they should have a new APL front plate design and their own brandname to differentiate their own product. Since, I believe in what they are doing which 60% is APL own design. That's all.

I agree with you on VRDS-Neo performance, that's why I would like to install the ST-Glass output of Emmlabs in Esoteric P-01 or P-03. And no need to modify the cap or power supply as their design is excellent.

I think it good for them to start their own DAC under APL brand. Frankly, I'm very admire David Heaton of Audio Synthesis as one of genius designer as I check their circuit design of Audio Synthesis DAX Discrete, it is very good design and he designed his own DAC chip which is totally different from Burr Brown or Analog Device. Their DAX Discrete is very good sound quality too. Last time I compare it side by side with Emmlabs CDSD and DAC6e, comparing to DAX Discrete and Esoteric P-0s, no one win, but each have their pros and cons, but one thing sure is that Emmlabs sound better on SACD playback.

Again nice to share some experience with you, Stereoteipei

videoht May 14, 2007 16:39

Videoht,
where are you based? I am living between Taipei and Tokyo and flying every week to HK/Shenzhen... I am building my new system in Tokyo (have only a small flat in Taipei)
Regarding APL, from what I know they have an agreement with Esoteric to get access to their players. Given that the company is still very much a "one designer" operation, I can understand they go with their current model (watch what happened to Wadia 10 years ago when they tried to grow to fast and do everything...). Moreover, I don't believe (I may be wrong) that Teac still sells its VRDS-Neo unit separately. If you want to get it, only way is to buy an Esoteric...
Problem is that the VRDS-Neo is in a completely different category in term of mechanical design...
See this link: http://www.aplhifi.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=560
It is coming from APL forum so for people who don't trust their objectivity, click on the picture links and judge by yourselves... (watch the comparison with Philips...)
If you check their website, you will see that APL is trying to develop their own range, starting with DAC.

I have one NWO2.5T on order. Hesitated a lot with a EMM. Finally decided for APL more based on curiosity. Sure that both are great.

stereotaipei May 14, 2007 15:02

Stereotaipei; thanks for the explaination.....i was not familiar with the details of the 2.5 NWO which was why i mentioned that. the 2.5 has certainly had lots of positive comments written about it. at some point i'd enjoy hearing one in my room to compare it to my EMM Labs SE.

Videoht; thanks for the detailed explaination regarding the G-0Rb clock......if i get an opportunity to try it i will. a question; when using the G-0Rb clock, do you still use the ST Optical cable for the data output of the raw DSD from the CDSD to the DAC6e?

again; many thanks for pushing the envelope.

mikelavigne May 14, 2007 14:00

below is a response to a question posed to me over on AVS i thought i'd share here (i'm basically lazy).

****************

Jermmd and Luigi,

first, sorry Luigi for missing your question earlier. i don't check here on AVS as often as i should......so much video and HT stuff to sort thru.

the MM2's are very close to the MM3's.......in fact on a high % of music it is more a matter of slighly different than better or worse. there is mostly a slight improvement in bass dynamic ease and a slight increase in warmth......which means a slightly different crossover point for balance. you can run at a higher bass gain with two subs since the crossover is set slightly lower. when you go from MM2 to the MM3 you will get a speaker with slightly greater dynamic grip and sense of solidity.

Jermmd, i have now had the MM3's since Christmas......over 4 months. they are now fully broken in. there are aspects of speaker performance where i have heard a few speakers do this or that specific thing as well or slighly better. but overall; the MM3's do everything at the very highest level of performance. and as a total package; i have not heard anything like it.

there may be another speaker with mid-range clarity and detail in the ballpark of the MM3, but none that combine this with smooth seamless extended highs. the combination of mids and highs is unmatched in my experience.

the mid-bass/lower mid transition is the typically the weak point of large speakers; i have not heard that critical area for vocals done better than the MM3's. although the MM3's are very dynamic in the upper bass and lower mids i have heard speakers with more punch in this area. those speakers however are not as coherent as the MM3.

deep bass is tunable to tastes. it goes very deep and is very articulate. i know of speakers that can do greater macrodynamics in the deep bass......but not by much. again; the MM3's are quite dynamic.......and do acoustic bass as well as any speaker i have heard.

the MM3's have a very natural, sweet tonal flavor; assuming you supply it with the correct amplification and sources. they are as detailed as any speaker but still sweet. the combination of naturalness and detail is unique.

since they are an easy load you have a wide choice of amps. for such a large speaker they actually have a modest footprint and since they are sealed boxes are flexible as far as where you put them.

and once you dial them in they completely disappear.......if the recording allows it.

i have not seen a better built speaker, and beautiful too.

if the MM3's were $150k the pair......they would be no more overpriced than any other $150k speaker.

how do i feel? they are magnificent!

the best thing they do is make great music......all those 'bests' and 'as good as'.......mean nothing if they don't deliver that great sense of having real music there in your room.

there are many excellent speakers out there.....but none at any price i would rather have.

***********

mikelavigne May 14, 2007 13:47

Thanks for your comment, Mikel!

I'm very agree with you that modify is not for everyone since it is very elaborate and paintaking job to mod. That's why I just recommend the other people to test only the Esoteric Master clock G-0Rb as I think it is very worth testing, if you don't like it. Just take out the BNC connector and that's all. Normal practise for modifying, I will have the standard CDSD and DAC6e on the side for comparison to check whether the mod unit trade-off sth. with STD unit or not? That's why I didn't recommend the other people to follow my mod. It is very difficult to get on the right track.

About the connector of Emmlabs is proprietary that's right for ST-Glass, but for BNC 44.1KHz and 48 KHz clock in/out it is an industry standard one, so you can use the master clock from DCS, Apogee, Alesis, and many others to test with CDSD and DCC2. Please don't forget that Emmlabs support a lot of Professional Studio for mastering. Most digital professional equipments will have clock in/out terminal as a standard connector to make sure that all equipment will synchonize on the same clock to eliminate the jitter. Mikel, please check with Ed Meitner for this clock link. The reason I try it because I check the precision of this Esoteric G-0Rb is at 0.00005 ppm and very impressive to be better than other clock precision from other manufactures which normally at 1 ppm or 0.1ppm.

About the APL unit, I agree with you. I would not call that modify a unit, instead APL built the other cd player since taking out DAC board, change the DAC chip, switch to tube buffer output is not modify any more. For me, I will change only some parts that improve the sound quality but I will not change the D to A board, or the Opamp like APL. I am very admire Ed Meitner for his genius design that's why I should to improve the sound quality from his equipment.

About the Turntable Vs SACD sound quality, please try to use Esoteric G-0Rb to hook into your CDSD SE. If you have confuse in connecting that, please inform me. I will describe it to you. I bet you will an idea of what I try to tell you. I am very eager to hear your response after using G-0Rb as I'm very admire your capability in testing the equipment.

Dear Stereoteipei, very nice to share some comments with you too. If I got the chance to Teipei, I will contact you since I live nearby Teipei. About APL, I quite don't like to modify like that. I think if APL do like that they should buy only the Esoteric VRDS-Neo and design their own unit like Wadia or DCS do. This is just my opinion :)

videoht May 14, 2007 13:14

just one comment on the APL NWO2.5T: we cannot exactly describe it as a mod. The only part which is kept is the power supply and the VRDS mechanics. Everything else (including the D/A wandler) is replaced. So the sound has nothing to do with an Esoteric player. APL decided to take an Esoteric player as a basis because of the quality of the mechanics, nothing else.

stereotaipei May 14, 2007 07:43

Videoht;

very serious system you have there. no doubt very refined and high resolution with both vinyl and digital. obviously i know the EMM gear.....i also owned the Aesthetix Io for 3 years and then had the Io Signature with 2 power supplies for 2 months. if you feel the mods your friend made to the EMM gear and the use of the G-0Rb clock made big performance differences my hat is off to you for pushing the envelope. modding expensive gear is a risk and cost money.

i must admit to having a somewhat negative viewpoint toward modified digital gear. i am certainly open to the possibility of modded digital surpassing stock gear. with the exception (to a certain degree) of the APL stuff (which while better than the stock gear it's based on is still not my cup of tea----no....i've not heard the 2.5 NWO)......mods have sounded worse or diiferent to my ears.

i will try to elaborate a little......but before i do i must point out just how clueless i am regarding things technical......so keep that in mind as you read my comments. i just want to add that little disclaimer.

my viewpoint is that the design and production engineering process for stock gear is many times more rigurous than any modder can attain. parts choices are not casual for OEM. also; the original designer has already done the work to choose the correct parts. just throwing more expensive bits at gear is a hit and miss proposition. also; adding tubed output stages to digital gear changes the sound but so far to my ears does not make it better (my personal opinion).

i don't have the knowledge to really comment specifially about the effect of the Esoteric clock on the EMM gear. i do know that the EMM digital interface is propriatary. there is no doubt that the VRDS-Neo drive is amazing and would likely improve the CDSD's performance. however; my opinion is that placing the CDSD on top of a Halcyonic Active Isolation platform would yeild more preformance benefit than the VRDS-Neo.

the 'SE' upgrade to the DAC6e is very significant. personally; the original manufacturer's 'tweaks' are more likely to be purely positive.....whereas a modder's efforts are more likely to be a trade-off.

i was going to jump on your

Now i get all the good thing of turntable plus more clarity, soundstage, bandwidth, and dynamic of CD and SACD.

then you backed off it in your 2nd post.

with top vinyl the digital (even SE EMM Labs) is not really close however good it might be. i do agree that as my system improves the difference between SACD and Redbook gets larger.....even as Redbook improves immensely. the problem is that the vinyl gets better too (after all; there is more info there to uncover).

i want to be clear that i am not in any way questioning the results you are speaking about. it just runs counter to my experience.

OTOH as digital goes forward with DSD/SACD and Redbook maybe the next step will be combining special technologies from the leading digital players......the combined effects resulting in greater performance. that appears to be what you are doing.

thank you very much for sharing your efforts here.

best regards,

mikelavigne May 14, 2007 00:02

Dear Henry, very nice to discuss with you. I hope my experience can help the other audiophiles to get some new idea. Frankly, I didn't recommend the other audiophiles to modify without proper electronic knowledge background and good electronic technician. I'm very lucky that I have my friend who are very keen in fixing Hi-End equipment for more than 15 years. He also can design some circuit for me too. :)

Please understand that I am not a recognized Meitner Modifier. I'm just do it on my own risk, it is just for my hobby to find out the finest sound quality. Now, I'm waiting for my friend new CDSD SE and DAC6e SE to compare to my mod CDSD and mod DAC6e. My friend also very eager to know the result also as he consult with about modifying new CDSD SE and DAC6e SE as in my unit. By that time, I should have a very fun job to test this unit.

For other audiophiles, I suggest that trying only G-0Rb (sorry I qoute the wrong model previously "G-0Rd")hook up to standard CDSD or if you are lucky to have CDSD and DCC2, you can hook it up seperately from G-0Rb to CDSD and DCC2 which should have a better result than my connecting layout. For clock cable, I suggest the other to try with good digital 75 Ohm BNC cable and connector. But I do recommend RG-11 SDI digital video cable with quad shield, as I test many RG-6 video cable, but I found out RG-11 have a better sound quality.

Please note that you must try a master clock after your system is already optimum set up and calibrate, and almost go up to the upper limit of your system. Since using a G-0Rb in your system, it didn't increase the bass, mid, or treble so much, just very little. But it just expanding the sound stage, increasing the air around each instrument, recreating ambience in each recording, reducing the digital grain, improve focus on foreground and background. If your system is not high resolution enough, and wrong speaker placement and calibration, you can't get the magic of this master clock. Did you believe that Esoteric G-0Rb take about one week before the clock start to continuos stable? And once you use it, don't turn off this master clock as they use a Rubidium clock generator which need to heat at a certain temperature. I check with the Rubidium clock generator manufacturer, did you believe that the cost of Rubidium clock generator alone is at almost USD 2,000 WOW!

I think this Esoteric G-0Rb is not launched in USA yet, I am very lucky in getting this unit first in Southeast Asia. Actually, I borrow it from my friend who order it to use with Esoteric P-03 and D-03. I am just curious how it will improve my Emmlabs.

About the turntable Vs SACD sound quality, please read it carefully that I have just stated that now I just got the good thing of turntable plus more dynamic and clarity of CD and SACD. I never stated that it is better turntable 100%.

From my own opinion, I think either Turntable or SACD, if you can handle and calibrate it properly and optimumly, the result should be the sound quality should be closed to each other inwhich it should get close to Master Tape or Disc as much as possible. Now, the tonal balance of both turntable and SACD in my system is very close to each other. For example, an Opus3 SACD and Vinyl Record is a very good test. You will be very surprise, if you hear both format in my system. So, I need to have both SACD and Phono in my system because not all master have an equal quality, if you talk about the old record, SACD is inferior to Turntable. But for a new SACD with DSD mastering, Turntable is inferior to SACD. I hope you will get my idea.

About the modifying on CDSD and DAC6e, I replace the capacitor on the main board by using Tantalum cap for digital routing, and using Black Gate N series for analog supply and analog path. I didn't touch on SMD cap and resistor. The unit is working wonderfully and reliably, and I never turn it off. I make it run 24 Hrs.

For my dream project, I would like to install the Emmlabs ST-Glass output into Esoteric P-01 or P-03, and hook it to mod DAC6e SE or DCC2 SE. I don't know it can be done or not at this moment, but I have discussed this possibility with my friend. As I found out that the bad thing for Emmlabs CDSD is in the Philips SACD laser pickup base, if Emmlabs use Esoteric VRDS-Neo mechanic, it will improve the sound quality beyond imagination. DCS now already started to use Esoteric VRDS-Neo in their top model transport.

For interconnect cable,
Vyger Indian Signature to Aesthetix IO Sig - Virtual Dynamic(VD) Genesis
Aesthetix IO Sig to Viola Spirito - VD Revelation
Emmlabs DAC6e to Viola Spirito - VD Revelation
Viola Spirito to Custom made poweramp - VD Genesis

For all Speaker cable, VD Revelation

Power cord, is mixed between Aural Symphonic, Furutech, Virtual Dynamic, PS Audio, and Natural Link.

Now, I am consider to change poweramp, I think about Karan Acoustic, Viola, and Boulder. Do you have any idea about these poweramp?

I hope my answer can help clarify your question. :)

videoht May 13, 2007 19:20

This is the first time I read anyone stating a digital source sounds better than analog, albeit with an unconfirmed modification that (doubles?) the cost of the Meitner combo.

Videoht, are you a recognized Meitner modifier, or more a hobbyist? And can you explain some more detail how you use Tantalum and its extreme high heat resistance and conductivity properties in the upgrade, I presume in the resistors? I ask because I used to buy large quantaties (tons) of Ta for turbine applications.

Can you also share a bit more about your system setup, cable used on the clock, room setup. Where are you located etc.

Regards
Henry

mtkhl567 May 13, 2007 11:58

Mike, I have followed up your system quite a long time ago, but never response to you. I would like to exchange some experience with you. About a year ago, I have started the project Emmlabs CDSD and DAC6e modify. I took out the old switching supply of both CDSD and DAC6e, and replace them by using linear transformer power supply from Plitron. Moreover, I have replaced a lot of Capacitors by using tantalum and Black Gate N series. The result is very worth doing it, it lifted out all harsh and stress, have more dynamic without grain. I have very satisfy with this modification. Until recently, I have just received the new Esoteric G-0Rd, newest clock from Esoteric. Then I hook up the clock out of Esoteric G-0Rd into Emmlabs CDSD clock input using BNC 75Ohm cable, then set the DAC6e to received the ST-Glass optic input to be external. By doing this all clock both CDSD and DAC6e will lock to Esoteric G-0Rd, the result is much more than I imagine. It recreate and expand the space into both depth and width 30% larger, and all digital trait is gone, just rich harmonic and very analog sound is coming in. And the most important thing is that the emotion is very stunning, with more impact dynamic, and correct scale of each recording is recreated. Very very recommend for trying it, I can't it out from my system now. Once I have gone back to using internal clock of CDSD and DAC6e, I am very question that why previously I think it was a very good sound. Please note that the full performance will show with at least 4 days of continuous running of this Esoteric G-0Rd. Don't turn this weapon off at all condition. Now I get all the good thing of turntable plus more clarity, soundstage, bandwidth, and dynamic of CD and SACD. Ooh, I forgot to tell you, once I have used the G-0Rd, the difference of redbook CD and SACD is showed much difference than before. I think that it was like that because the G-0Rd master clock generate a much more precise clock timing of 0.00005 ppm Vs 3 ppm clock using in CDSD and DAC6e. I also recommend this clock the other audiophile who use DCS and Esoteric equipment.

Here is my system reference:

Quintessence Acoustics Speaker - Stealth SV with 15"Subwoofer
Viola Audio labs - Spirito Preamp
Aesthetix -IO Signature Phono pre
Vyger Indian Signature Turntable with Vacuum Holddown and Carbon fiber Vision tonearm option.
Shook Mook Signature Cartridge
Emmlabs CDSD custom modify - SACD Transport
Emmlbas DAC6e custom modify - DAC
Esoteric G-0Rd - Master clock generator
Custom made Mono block power amplifier 500 watts/ch -4 units
Virtual Dynamic - Revelation and Genesis interconnect and speaker cable
My room size is 5 meters by 7.5 meters.

If you have any question, please feel free to ask me.

videoht May 12, 2007 07:52

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loxodrome May 11, 2007 08:14

Dusty, Lox, and....

i stand corrected. i have seen the Eams Chair in person but have never sat in it. my impression was that the upper back rest was in fact a head rest. clearly i am wrong about that.

as jtinn mentioned; it is too low for the tweeter height of most speakers but there is not a cupping effect that i had stated. as i said orginally; it is elegant looking.

my apologies for being sloppy in my observations.

mikelavigne May 10, 2007 22:32

05-10-07: Joey_v
Unless you're a munchkin, the Eames Chair does not even reach your ears.
Joey_v (Threads | Answers)

Dear Joey,

Try to explain this to your friend Mike who's friends are of completely different proportions!
No wonder, apparently he feeds them ENORMOUS portions of PIZZA!!

I agree, only midgets will be affected by the headrest of the Eames Chair but, even midgets can have ENORMOUS hands so be aware!

Sincerely, Loxotoxic

loxodrome May 10, 2007 19:50

Dear Henry,

All seems to depend on the size of your hands. BIG room and SMALL hands = a no go. BIG ROOM and BIG SPEAKERS means GIGANTIC hands and this = an absolute impossibility. Your hands would preposterous! I will consider your suggestions and work on a marketing strategy.

Thank you for you positive suggestions. Photos will be forwarded to you personal mail address.

Keep up the fun in life and be so kind to forward suggestions why the Honda F1 team is a no go this season! Is it Honda or are it the dealers?

loxodrome May 10, 2007 19:27

That's too funny!!! Lox, I think you've just invented about the only unmarketed tweak out there. But before you put any silver, gold or platinum versions on the market may I make a suggestion for those with a more limited budget? Just hold your hands behind your ears when listening, same effect, and may also increase audiophile listening pleasure (depending on personal taste)...all at no cost! It does bypass the papercutting fun though...

Looking forward to that picture of you and your family with your "additors", or mine, on your system page.

:-)
Henry

mtkhl567 May 10, 2007 11:51

Ik haft nu so gelaggen dat ik op de grond kruipen...

Mike, your room is always fabilous... siriusly.

DV

dewald_visser May 09, 2007 14:40

The Eames Chair:

The Perfect Chair!!!!!! (but it will not massage your back)

To overcome the blocking effect of the headrest, cut yourself some BIG paper ear-supplements and attach them to your born-with protruding elements.
You’ll be amazed about the additional micro-infested low-level detail these ADDITORS will provide. No specific instructions for these ADDITORS exist but make sure they are proportional to your speakers and room. BIG speakers means BIG ADDITORS, small room
SMALL ADDITORS and family room: MULTIPLE ADDITORS for all members.

Lots of cutting fun and do experiment

loxodrome May 09, 2007 10:03

I actually just bought an Eames lounge chair (Herman Miller knockoff by Selig) last week, and I've enjoyed it IMMENSELY. Any enjoyment that is taken away by the headrest possibly blocking sound is more than compensated by the comfort and aesthetics of the chair!

heyitsmedusty May 08, 2007 19:13