Hi Mike,

In one of your old threads, you have mentioned that the Placette RVC had outperformed 6-7 active preamps costing $10-15k. Is the RVC an unbalanced or balanced unit? Do you think the RVC unbalanced would be comparable or better than the Krell KRC?

I am considering the Placette vs. the Krell KRC. I hope the KRC was one of the preamps in the list of 6-7 in the $10-$15k range that was outperformed by the Placette.

Your valuable advice is most appreciated. Thanks in advance.

ryder February 01, 2007 16:41

Sam,

even with the 'excitement' of having a new toy (the MM3) my impression of the VR7SE is very positive and my comments a few months back are still valid. the '7' is very coherent and micro-dynmically alive. in a more 'normal' room the '7' would typically easily be able to pressurize the room. in fact; in the mid-range since it is bi-ampable (and the MM3 is not) the '7' has the advantage of using two channels of amplification. frankly; i wish the MM3 could be bi-amped since my taste in amps leads me to more mid-powered ones.

i hope that Herve (of darTZeel) will build a 250 watt monoblock soon.

in any case; you made a good choice; the 7 has great workmanship and a very natural organic look in person.

i'm not a patient person; sounds like you are better at waiting than me.

mikelavigne February 01, 2007 13:47

Mike,
First, congratulations for your great system, and thanks for the time you spent documenting your quest of perfection: very instructive for all of us. would love to also build a dedicated room... but unfortunately I am moving in a different country every 2-3 years...
Some context to my questions: on my side, I am buying a completely new system. I first was interested by the VR-9, which unfortunately cannot be listened to in HK/Taiwan. However, I listened extensively to both the VR5 and VR11SE in HK, in a very nice dealer room. Was not fully convinced to be frank. Very dynamic, detailed sound but I had a problem with the bass which was too boomy on the ported VR5SE (probably a setup/room problem) and I didn’t feel 100% connected with the music. On the same day, I listened to the Magico Mini at the same place (by accident, never heard about Magico before), and completely felt in love with it (will not speak about the 120k Magico 6 which is in a category of its own.. .but too heavy and expensive for me). It sounded like live music, and was imaging and had the energy of a big speaker. I am now planning to buy a pair of Mini + 2 Torus subwoofer to reinforce the <40Hz that the Mini cannot deliver.
Before sending my Mini order, I believe I need to listen to the MM3: the price is amazing, I am really impressed by the construction of the cabinet, the quality of the drivers used and the fact that it is a modular concept (easier to move in a new home when you can “cut” your monster speaker in 3…). Moreover, given that I love the sound of the Dartzeel and of EMM products I tend to think I may love the MM3 if it is of the same “family”. Do you know where it can be listened to in the US? (I emailed to Bluelightaudio a few days ago, but they are not very reactive…). I will be in SF, LA and Orlando end of March and I am ready to take a flight of less than 2-3hrs to any place where it can be listened to in good conditions.
One thing which surprises me is to read the comment of J Valin on the MM3 in the Feb TAS: “Although capable of considerable delicacy, tonal sweetness, and lifelike imaging, the MM3s were either underdriven by the $18k 100Wpc Dartzeel NHB-108 amps Jonathan was using or inherently polite because they were sorely stressed by the plucked strings, brass fanfares, and big bass drum thwacks of the Copland Third Symphony. On less demanding material, however—like Joni Mitchell’s “All I Want” from the great DCC LP test pressing of Blue—they were rather lovely on voice and dulcimer.”
=> Valin was not very convinced by what he heard at RMAF apparently… which worries/surprises me as most of the time I share his taste on speakers. However I have the impression that the few other people that listened to the MM3 at RMAF had a completely different experience!
Is it just that the MM3 is for people with different taste? Like Valin, I like Kharma, MBL, love Magico. But was not 100% convinced by VS: how would you describe the sound of the MM3 compared to your old VS9 or Kharma for example?
Thanks for your help

stereotaipei February 01, 2007 13:10

hi mike
thanks for the photos. the vr7 do blend into your room pretty well without distracting the eye....but the sound may not be fulfilling in your large dedicated sound room.... ( ie in comparision to all the other speaker gear you have had over the last few months)..... I really think your magic piece is your room....which is simple and very serene and peaceful looking but the sonics I am sure must be stonkingly !!!! amazing.
the mm3 really are like statement pieces in your room... the sound I am sure with two sealed powered woofer per speaker!... must be satisfying.
the request for the photos and reviews of the Vr 7se was slightly selfish on my part... I am still waiting for the delivery of my pair I ordered 6/12 ago... and said to be delayed for few more months.... ( this was a blind buy... remember my earlier post to you many months ago )
thanks again mike and hope you have may happy years of sonic surfing
regards
sam

asks40 January 31, 2007 20:52

Sam;

thanks for the kind words.

per your request here is a.....

....link to a picture of the VR7SE's in my room

enjoy.

mikelavigne January 31, 2007 13:59

mdoukas; thanks.

i have only heard the 11's once; 2 years ago at CES (2004).....and that was on EMM Labs and darTZeel. the character of the 11's was similar to the VR9's. so, yes; i do feel the 11's are synergisitic with that gear......which is to say micro-dynamic, coherent, and uncolored....and very musical serving the event as opposed to 'hifi'.

as far as the MM3's; the speaker was conceptualized by jtinn and the final design work was completed by the VR11 and VR9 designer. jtinn and i do have similar sonic ideals; and the gear he sells is complimentary to those concepts.....so yes; the MM3 is in a similar vein. it does use a different mid-range driver, crossover philosophy and cabinet contstruction method; all issues which appeal to me personally as advances.

my room, gear and set-up are all focused on the same sonic concept of natural neutrality and full frequency support of the musical event. the Rockport is as neutral as it comes. i do have different cartridges that cover a wide landscape of listening preferences between 'warmest'--Koetsu RSP, 'a little warm'--Dynavector X-V1s, 'a touch of ease'--vdH Colibri GWX, and my fav 'explosive natural neutrality' vdH Colibri XCP. the Rockport can perfectly sing any of those songs.

it is too early to say with any certainty how the MM3's compare to the VR11's. in retrospect; i remember how much the VR9's improved thru my time with them; and how they revealed themselves to me as i learned about them. i've had the MM3's for a month and am just starting to move them around and dial them in.

i will say that i love what the twin ceramic mid-range drivers do......that driver has a place in my heart from the Kharmas.

stay tuned.

mikelavigne January 31, 2007 13:49

hi mike
thanks for your passionate views on the Vr 7se and the MM3... amazing photos!. You seem to be really taken in by the MM3 performance......your intense drive and pure simple passion for music heard as music **.... seem to slowly but steadly overtake your original dream speakers ...Vr 11!!!!.....any photos of the your interim setup with the Ve 7se setup...
to many hours of beautiful listening
sam

asks40 January 29, 2007 21:07

you want pictures....here's more pictures....hot off the digits!

front at 12' 6" wide apart....behind the 'chair'

off to the side

front of MM3 at 12' 6" wide

side of MM3

back of MM3

i love the 'taper' of this speaker.....it must be seen in person to appreciate......really a work of art from many angles.

enjoy!

mikelavigne January 29, 2007 05:04

Sam, they are even more beautiful in person.

i have had them 14 feet, 6 inches apart while they were breaking in. the reason was a recommendation from Kevin Malmgren.....who designed the VR9SE, VR7SE, as well as the final design work on the MM3's. i enjoyed that position for the VR7SE's so i put the MM3's there right off. in my room anywhere has room to breathe.....with the 11 foot ceiling.

i did not want to move the speaker around during breakin.....but now they have about 500 hours on them so today i did move them.

i had a few friends over for a listen.....after a few hours we did move them in from 14' 6" to 12' 6".....which also meant i moved my listening seat in 12" too.

initial impression were of a more visceral, involving, micro-dynamically alive and intimate presentation.....which i prefer. the soundstage is a bit shorter but only a bit.....which is still BIG! depth is a bit better and there is a bit more of a wrap-around sense. as this position is only 3 or 4 hours old i am still discovering the differences. the bass seems pretty flat so far.

i now expect to start positioning experiments in earnest.....but i think it will end up in the 12 foot to 13 foot range. i need to break out the RTA now.

regarding the VR7SE; the '7' is not really the right speaker for this room.....it does not move enough 'air' for my 29' x 21' x 11' room with all the bass trapping. the '7' is a ported passive speaker.....my room works better with a sealed box active subwoofer speaker that can easily presurize the room and move lots of air.....such as the VR9, VR11 or MM3.

also the '7' uses a different mid range and tweeter than the MM3 and has a diiferent sound. i throughly enjoyed the VR7 and think it makes great music.

mikelavigne January 29, 2007 04:50

hi mike
the mighty mm3 looks really beautiful in your room...was the move to keep the speakers well apart, toed in and quite close to the side walls to maximise the sound stage or a must for the speaker to breathe ( manu`s instructions... will it work in 15`/30` room narrow long room ). are they very superior to the demo pair of Vr 7se you had earlier....your views.
regards
sam

asks40 January 28, 2007 20:34

Jacob, my new MM3 speakers do not allow bi-amping like the VR9's. this was a big concern of mine....considering the size of my room.

it turns out that one stereo darTZeel on the MM3 is more than capable of reaching high SPL's without strain in my room. it helps that the MM3's have a digital amp which powers the woofer. i don't exactly know where it crosses over to the mid-range but it is high enough that the dart can easily handle it. combine that with having 2 mid-range drivers which presents an easy load to the dart in the mid-range and it all works.

mikelavigne January 28, 2007 19:06

Mike beuatiful speakers,you change or is a experience, now you have only a stereo apmlifier?

shade_of_pale January 28, 2007 17:19

Looks great Mike! Congratulations. It's only going to get better. I wish I lived closer to get a listen to the 3s in your room.

fsarc January 28, 2007 16:14

Jacob, yes....i prefer my gear to the side of the room and designed it that way. i also installed 2" conduit for future multichannel incld subwoofer with a 'box' in the floor next to my gear on the side.......as well as conduit to a box near my listening chair with a dedicated outlet and run of the ST Optical cable that my digital (EMM Labs) uses. in the past i have placed the digital transport right next to my listening chair.

i like that there is nothing but my amp(s) between the speakers both sonically and aesthetically. i can more easily relax into the music without that distration.

mikelavigne January 28, 2007 14:36

Thanks for your attention and explanation, it´s very honest and elucidative.

Sorry if don´t understand my "materials configuration prefered", I mean that I prefer this kind of materials arrengement, all the equipment at one side, and in front only the speakers and powers, I think is the best solution, the stage is for the musiciens, the music, not for the equipment, all the equipment in front I don´t like, I prefer your configurationin the meddle could make a distraccion for the senses. I think that we have better sound too, with this configuration. Is your opinion too?

shade_of_pale January 27, 2007 20:17

Marty, thanks. i will call you as the time gets closer and see if it works out to visit.

best regards,

mikelavigne January 27, 2007 20:17

mdoukas, you would be most welcome to visit should you ever find yourself in the Northwest.

your question is very reasonable.....you are not missing anything.....i, OTOH, am missing the VR-11's.

no; i don't anticipate that i would have the MM3's and VR-11's together. i will, however, compare the two should the 11's ever arrive (they must first be built which has not yet commenced). i did have the VR7SE's and the MM3's in my room at the same time.

the VR7SE's are in their shipping crates in the garage.

mikelavigne January 27, 2007 20:15

tobi, i would be interested in learning more about the cables that you describe...particularly if you have experience with Transparent Opus. maybe you could provide a link that i could follow.

thanks.

mikelavigne January 27, 2007 20:08

Triumph 900, thanks. yes, every system needs the right context.

you have a very sweet looking system yourself.....congrats.

mikelavigne January 27, 2007 20:05

hi Jacob,

thanks for the kind words.

cable elevators make very little difference. the theory of them is issues of resonance and static. from a total system viewpoint; how cables lay is a marginal thing. to me anything that carries an audio signal benefits from not being under stress. the elevators allow the speaker cables to go underneath the interconnects as well as the power cables to the amps for the subwoofers. i personally think they look better than just laying on the floor. i first started using them in my old room where it was all carpet.....and i was convinvced at the time i could hear a difference due to getting the cables above the static buildup from the nylon carpet....it seemed to have slightly less background noise. with the wood floor in my new room i doubt that i could hear a difference...although i expect that there is a difference. they are very cheap (8 for $88 7 years ago).

to me tweaks can be accumulative.....one may not be evidant......but if you do a number of small things it can result in a more natural organic involving sound. i try to keep contacts clean; have cables cross at right angles and not touch; use cable elevators......

i don't understand "my materials configuration preferred".....if it means you prefer your system....i don't blame you.....it is a very nice set-up and classy looking too. i have owned Levinson, Zoethecus and Revel.....and own a Dynavector cartridge myself now.

the interconnect from my preamp to power amp is 8 meters long. it is a 50 ohm BNC cable......and is propriatary for the darTZeel pre and amp. i previously used a 7 meter XLR Valhalla....i prefer my sources in the side of the room to optimize speaker performance and therefore need a long interconnect. if i mis-understood your question i apologize.

mikelavigne January 27, 2007 19:48

Spectacular system, my materials configuration prefered, What do you think the importance of the cable elevators?
How long is your IConnect, Pre-powers? I need something like this.

shade_of_pale January 27, 2007 17:48

At last somebody who makes the right investment in the most important of all elements (the listening room) and THEN builds his own setup around that starting point.

Everything is impressive not just for the quality of the single elements but for the sinergy between them and the environment where they are placed but, most of all, the attention to detail: quality of the whole is made by paying attention to the single elements of it.

triumph_900 January 21, 2007 14:24

hello,

i m just surfing through the net and im seeing your hifi system. it looks that you take great care of it.

so im also own the vr 9 se and after a long journey ( siltech, kimber,syn.research, shun.,nord.,i also came to the opus but now i got a new cable from a company who makes developments for those companys.
they have a technologie which produces no more phase delays beetwween speaker and amp.
the result is unbelieable. and now thats the reson i write you i had also a seperate power cord from the main power station of my house going from one wall outlet to the next.
they gave me a box where all my cords go in.it has a gel in it and thr result was dramatic.
i advice you to put yor power cords alltogether.

hope you can understand my bad writing.

tobi

[email protected] January 21, 2007 13:08

Mike,
Cool. If you find yourself in Dallas in April and I am in town, by all means I would very much welcome your visit.
Marty
817-742-1242

ugamotz January 16, 2007 03:51