Hi,
Thank you very much for your answer!

I could not find a lot of info about VR-5SE but the things I read were very positive. I think Positive Feedback and 6moons have VR-5 and will make an review soon! Also the Vr-5SE are at CES so I think I will wait a couple of weeks before my final decision...

I will get back to you later with the full report! ;)

Thanks
Best regards
Mike

asradict January 10, 2007 10:32

Marty,

i absolutely remember your visit; it was a key event in figuring out my VR9's. you got my thinking about how 'flat' bass was not necessarily 'musical'. after you left i adjusted the crossover and found it to be the key to getting the system to sound sweet and balanced. your effect on my understanding was profound and that thinking still is quite prominent to set-up.

the only thing that has changed since you were here is the speakers and i think you were here prior to ungrading my EMM Labs digital to the 'SE' version. other than that it is the same.

i still have the darTZeel, the Valhalla, the darTZeel BNC interconnect, and the Opus speaker cables.

i hope you return again when you are back in town.

btw, i may be in big 'D' in April......

mikelavigne January 09, 2007 15:04

Seethesound,

my audio path has taken a few turns here and there as i evolved. i started out without much listening experience and would read both gear and music reviews and then purchase. at a certain point i developed my own musical compass and at that point my direction changed considerably; i looked for gear that had less of their own sound (eventually a room without it's own sound too) and for the last 6 years that has been my direction. there are many laudable approaches to music reproduction......mine is 'full frequency, neutrality, and a focus on the musical event'.....and not the 'sound' per se. i don't want 'colored' gear. i would rather hear a few warts now and then than have that 'golden glow' that some prefer. i want all the energy and tension of music to be fully exposed but do avoid any gear that will offer more information at the expense of naturalness.

if the above description fits your tastes you are certainly welcome to join me in my choices. in the past i was lucky enough to stumble on some excellent synegistic gear combinations that others then tried and liked. i found a bunch of new friends and we all had a good time.

i too consider myself a learning audiophile/music lover and am always on the quest to get closer to the music.

mikelavigne January 09, 2007 14:56

hi Asradict,

i apologize for not reponding to your e-mail as of yet.

i have not heard the VR5SE; but the VR9SE uses the same drivers and crossover. from speaking to the designer of both speakers and from what i have read about the VR5SE i would strongly recommend the VR5SE (make sure it is the 'SE' and not just a VR5 which is totally different) as a preferrable speaker to my ears than the others you list.

i do like the WP7 (i have not heard the WP8) but in my opinion the Von Schwiekert VR5SE should be more like music.....more coherent, better micro-dynamics, and less 'hifi'.

the ASR Emitter II Exclusive is a wonderful amplifier and the VR5SE will be a great match.

good luck.....and i would enjoy hearing about what you decide and how it sounds.

mikelavigne January 09, 2007 14:39

Mike, you may recall I'm a friend Steve Williams who of you were kind enough to invite over for a listen quite a while ago. I guess I was surprised to now see the system I heard at your place as one tht is "out to pasture". I particularly liked the DartZeel phonostage/preamp and the top end you were able to reproduce on some wonderful LPs. So wuz up? What preamp and interconnects are you running these days?
Marty

ugamotz January 09, 2007 09:36

Mike,
Let's see some pics of the mm3's when you get a chance!

streetdaddy January 08, 2007 22:12

hi Guys,

thanks for all the kind words and support.

i apoligize for both my absense and lack of response lately. to be perfectly honest for the last 6 to 9 months i have been otherwise focused.....and my attention to both the various forums as well as my audio e-mailing has been poor.

my business activity has been more demanding, i have spent more time with the wife, i have been trveling a good deal, my daughter got married, and i just lost a bit of focus. in the last 30 days it has just been crazy; first we were without power and internet service for 8 days before Christmas; then i had family visiting for the Holidays, and now finally i have got myself back into the audio focus.

2 weeks ago the Evolution Acoustics MM3's arrived (initially just the bottom 2 parts and a week later the top subs) and i have been breaking them in.

previous posts in this thread have described my reasons for initially changing from the VR9's (none of which had anything to do with any lack of satisfaction with the VR9's). it is as simple as the VR11's always being in the back of my mind as the 'ultimate' speaker and a friend offering to buy my VR9's. after investigating what it would cost to then buy the VR11's i jumped right in. Von Schweikert even agreed to loan me the VR7SE's while i waited. delivery was promised for late September or October at the latest. this was mid-July.

i paid my money, the VR7's were shipped to me and i shipped out my VR9's to my friend. the VR7's were very good but frankly i lost a bit of my audio enthusiasm about then. i was busy in other directions, i knew something more was coming, and so refocused on other things.

then in August i was down in San Deigo for business and visited Kevin Malmgren (who designed the VR11's, VR9's, the VR7's and also just happened to be doing the final voicing on the MM3's). frankly; even though i had heard the MM3 during the long development at jtinn's over the past few years i was unprepared for both the sonic performance and the production quality i saw and heard. i was smitten and immediately ordered a pair (in addition to the VR11's i had already ordered).

now fast forward to today. the VR11's are still not even started (although still on order)......and i have recieved the MM3's.

i'll continue later and try to address all the questions....gotta go to work.

mikelavigne January 08, 2007 14:57

Hi Mike,I have been reading your thread for a long time and I feel I have to interject my opinion.You have a room most of us only dream about,you have probably the best turntable made,one of the best amp and pre-amp combos on the market and the best speaker cable made.You took months to tune in your vr9s and got them and the whole system in sync,so my question is why play with it,why not just sit back and enjoy.High end audio can and will make you crazy so enjoy your fantastic set-up and let your so called friends make money off someone else.Good Luck.

strapper211 January 08, 2007 12:21

Hello Mr Lavigne!

Congrats! Your system is absolutely amazing! I love your room!

First of all I want to apollogise to disturbe you but if you can help me it will be much appreciated! Sorry to use this thread but I tried to sent you an email but I think it didn´t worked...

I´m thinking on buying new speakers for my ASR Emitter II exclusive. I have here in Europe possibility to make a good deal on the Von Schweikert VR-5SE but is impossible to test them with my gear.
Did you already listen to VR-5SE? What you think about this speaker? I notice the drivers are the same of VR-9s...

The only things I read about them is that people compared them with WP8 from wilson which is one of the others contenders. On my short list are also B&W800D and Sonus faber Amati anniversario. But the deal with VR-5 is very atractive compared with the prices I can find here for the others speakers on my list!
Do you think the VR-5 compete with this other speakers or are below this league?

I already listen to the B&W802D and Sonus Faber cremona and thinked they are over priced speakers with a lot of Buzz from the magazines. Don´t get me wrong they are good speakers but definitly over priced...And I think I will have the same sensation when demo the 800 and amati's.

Thank you very much!
Best regards
Mike

asradict January 08, 2007 10:05

Seethesound,

From reading between the lines on other forums I suspect that Mike might have sold the Von Schweikert VR9SEs in favour of the new Evolution Acoustics loudspeakers. I am sure that this in no way diminishes his enthusiasm for the Von Schweikert but when a speaker that better suits one's listening objectives comes along at a lower price the decision is easy.

Good luck with your musical journey.

Aaron

drajreynolds January 07, 2007 21:39

I'm 2+ years late to this party--and am waiting for my own VR9SE's (African Hazelwood) to arrive in March 2007. You (and so many others) love your equipment and room setup. Would it be a reasonable decision to simply emulate your setup and not try a difficult independent journey of gear matching?

seethesound January 07, 2007 04:18

I read your story and I believe the system great. From what is written, I can tell that you love music. You can also tell that you seek only the best and most natural sound. If that's the case, I see something askew. If you are interested to discuss this subject, I'll be glad to give you my opinions.

dandesigns December 10, 2006 21:19

Hey, Mike. My Darts are now pretty much fully broken in and....holy cow! I enjoy music again.

One update: I switched interconnects btwn the DCC2 (used only as a DAC now) and the Dart Pre from Kharma Supreme to Stealth Indra. If u have not audioned the latter, I strongly suggest you try it. The biggest thing which is so clear that it is unmistakable is that compared to any cable I have heard, the Indra has unique ability to simply make your speakers disappear in thin air. Yes, I said it. The sound stage explodes and you are no longer conscious of walls. I don't get it, but hear it most definitely. Try it, you may not like it but this quality of the cable is really noticeable in a very large way.

henryhk December 10, 2006 12:31

Hi Mike,

Wow, what a room and gear! I presently have the VR4 Gen II's in my small, 12'x13', bay area home. I bought these in '99 when I still lived in lg. house in Houston. I'm wondering about your thoughts on room size and what VS speaker would be a nice match? I've heard the 4jr's and yes, they are nice, but lacking so much at the extremes, kinda like what you mentioned about the 7 and 9 differences. I know you have a fair amt of VS experience and was just hoping to get your opinion.

Thanks
Chris

brdsmith December 02, 2006 18:43

Mike,

Thanks for the response and if you ever come to your grandmother's homeland, you're a welcome guest at my house.

Can't wait what you'll say of the VR-11. Enjoy the music.

Best regards

Daniel

feniks November 05, 2006 20:12

Hey - I admir your room (and the project as a whole!)

This is what it is all about, isn't it?

Keep it up!

Best regards,
Dewald Visser

dewald_visser November 05, 2006 19:28

hi Daniel, greetings to Croatia (i am 25% Croatian...my Grandmother on my father's side was 100% Croatian).

thanks for the kind words.

i think what i said was that the VR7's 'may' do some things better than the VR9's. that was my initial reaction to a different speaker setup than what i had been using. the VR7 designer (and VR9, VR11 and MM3 (final stage) designer too), Kevin Malmgren, had recommended a much wider speaker split than i had been using with my VR9's and i really enjoyed it.

i have since formed a more definite comparitive opinion regarding the VR7SE compared to the VR9SE. the 7's have the same tonal charater and naturalness as the VR9's. the 7's do space and layering as well as the '9's. but; the '9's have more clarity, the '9's are more extended in the highs, the '9' are more dynamic up and down the whole frequency, and the '9's have more articulation and foundation in the bass. any dynamic event in the low frequencies is more dramatic with the '9's. since my darTZeel amps only need to power down to 50hz on the '9's and the '9's are 94db-96db efficient as compared to the '7's where the darts must do the whole frequency and are only 92db efficient....the dart's are less stressed and more dynamic on the '9's.

btw, the '7' is still a fantastic speaker and only in direct comparison in my huge room with a speaker like the '9' is the '7' found lacking. i could live with and love the '7's.

mikelavigne November 03, 2006 18:58

Hi Mike,

First of all, I must say you have the most impressive setup, including the room, that I have ever seen. As I'm in a search for more bass, I have been recommended Von Schweikert speakers, but they are hard to come by in Croatia, where I live. Therefore, I would just like to ask you, as I have noticed in earlier post that you said that VR-7 may do some things better than VR-9, do you still stand by that statement, and can you comment some more on the VR-7. Unfortunately, both of them are still out of my league, but I may go for VR-5 or VR-4 second hand. Thank you very much and congratulations again on your setup.

Best regards

Daniel

feniks November 03, 2006 17:47

Yes...I have so far only 70 hrs on it and I can already hear its changing and improving....

henryhk November 03, 2006 10:42

Henry, i have had 5 different dart amps; three of which i had from brand new......they take considerable time to break-in (about 4+ weeks continuous playing). prior to break-in, the dart amp is closed in and lacking the micro-dynamic life that is it's strength. when that break-in happens there will be a significant change over a couple of hour period in the level of involvement of the amp.

one note; when the dart amp was first produced......they were run for a few weeks at the production facility in Switzerland and Herve communicated that minimal breakin was required. then when a large quanity was ordered by jtinn that long breakin time at the factory was not possible in the time frame that the amps were needed. so the breakin time was then the buyers responsibility.....which jtinn communicated to buyers.

i had the original test bed 'ugly duckling' pre; then i had the pre-production 'beta' unit; and finally the first actual production unit in north america (which is the one i now have). my unit was originally used at CES 2006 for 5 days; then it went to jtinn's house for a few days; and then to me....so i don't have 'right out of the box' experience with the dart pre. my feel for it is that there is not nearly the profound change in the pre as in the amp. i did notice that the phono stage did open up after around 100 hours but it was fairly subtle change.

mikelavigne November 02, 2006 13:34

on dart pre break in...perhaps so but I got the dart pwr & the pre simultaneoulsy and the break in period I have heard abt was re the pwr amp....Mike in your exp is that the case as well? Sounds great already so....

henryhk October 31, 2006 10:40

Joey, thanks for the kind words.

yes, i am 'still waiting' for the 11's.....since July. no definte word on when.

mikelavigne October 30, 2006 00:51

Mike,

Are you still waiting for the delivery of the 11s? If so, when will it be? BTW, I've always admired your dedication to this hobby... your room and your gear are testament to that fact.

Joey

joey_v October 29, 2006 21:37

hi Slipknot;......i say sanity be damned!

it's too bad you didn't introduce yourself.....next time please do.

in any case i admit i'm a bit smitten with Jonathan's speakers. i really want to hear what they can do in my room. just like the VR9's in that same RMAF room last year.....it was difficult to get the full measure of the refinement of the Evolution Acoustics MM3. OTOH just like the VR9's.....my room should be ideal for the MM3's.

what is great is that, like the VR9's, the MM3's are very adjustable (maybe even more adjustable in the bass than the VR9's). and i now am quite experienced at the dialing in process.

the tonal and bass balance choices at RMAF were not exactly the choices i would make. i want to hear it tweaked 'my way'.

on the MM3's i heard things i have never heard on extremely familiar discs. i have always loved that Accuton Ceramic mid-range driver from the Kharma's....using 2 of them allows more dynamics, detail and lower distortion. the speaker seems to be able to do it all.

for the last 5 years i have watched Jonathan develop this speaker and heard it at various stages. it appears he has something really special.

i hesitate to write in detail what i think about this speaker until i get it into my room and spend some time dialing it in. any speaker with the extention and dynamic capability of the MM3 will be a considerable challenge to completely tame in show conditions.

my expectations for the MM3 could not be higher.

stay tuned.

mikelavigne October 26, 2006 03:38

Hi Mike -
I saw you in Jonathan's room late on Sunday afternoon and meant to introduce myself to you, but I was too busy getting a final listen to the Evolutions. What do think of those behemoths? I seriously thought about placing an order for them, but sanity slapped me upside the head and I heard my very audio-tolerant spouse's voice going: "what are doing? you just went from Magnepan to Kharma because you thought the Maggies were too big".

slipknot1 October 26, 2006 02:39