Lol, people think I'm crazy as well cause of my hobby. But should I quit whit it because of the few ones who actually start flaming?? There are lots of people who do appreciate it, like myself.

bart_nl February 04, 2007 20:37

Mike,

I have enjoyed your thread ever since discovering hifi and have learned a ton reading your posts and replies to others questions and remarks. Please dont let one snob get under your skin. As Metralla stated above we all would solely miss your contributions, insight and over all love for this hobby. Thank you Mike, your a true gentlemen.

Justin

jlind325is February 04, 2007 20:13

Mike:

These are the wonders of Internet forums, which let several jealous people jump to their keyboards and bring out their own frustrations, on the name of freedom to speak.

I have been a victim of this too, although mine is very humble setup compared to yours. There is only one solution to deal with these: IGNORE THEM. Trust me, the more you explain, worse it can get. There is no need to debate such things on a rational basis.

Do not let these comments affect your hobby and enthusiasm.

Having met you in person, I can attest that you are a great and generous indvidual.

cheers.

gallant_diva February 04, 2007 18:49

Mike,

I understand perfectly when you say:

i am not looking for sympathy or feedback; but just an understanding of where i'm coming from if i pull the plug on my system posting......

but I urge you to stick with it and not let these two incidents affect you.

As you said, Bambi B made some assumptions from the photographs that were unfortunate, but later apologised. Bambi B is a regular contributor (that's the operative word) to AA, and he has a lot of experience with Audio Research and shares this experience. I value Bambi's posts - though he does go on a bit at times.

You also share your experiences - in this particular venue there are 13 pages of documented changes, commentary, back and forth to other enthusiasts. It's now a valuable resource, and I'm sure there have been thousands who have read it, enjoyed it, been amazed by it - but never posted their thoughts; and you don't know they are out there.

Loxodrome just seems a little lost, and was reaching out in a strange and misguided way. I'm more feeling sorry for him than annoyed with his presence here in your system thread.

You've provided a unique window into your progress through this hobby, and one that no fellow audiophile would want to see removed.

It's your system and your every right to pull the plug, and nothing we can say would sway you should you make a decision to do so. All I can say is thanks for being here, for contributing (that word again) in a huge way to making our hobby extend beyond the borders of our own listening rooms.

You have helped break down the isolation that is appears to be native to those addicted to the pursuit of outstanding music reproduction in the home.

Hang in there, mate.

Regards,

metralla February 04, 2007 17:59

Hi Mike hope you and family are doing well.
One year ago to the day I met Mike in person after having exchanged e-mails and postings on Audiogon.
We were invited (family of 5 in total) to go and visit him at his place. This was Superbowl weekend with Seattle in it. To top things off Seattle that weekend had a 70 mph wind storm that knocked power and trees down everywhere.
He made time for all of us.
I know that most of us with money invested in our systems would never open our doors to total strangers. It is human instinct not to trust people that we do not know, but Mike is so passionate about sharing the music at his place that he has opened his doors (and our ears) for many us.
His listening room, as all of our listening rooms have, has a sweet spot.
He wants people to hear what he hears in this spot. Please note that there are additional chairs in his room for more guest/friends to enjoy the expierience.
He is an increadibly gracious host and has become a person that I can trust and can call on for advice. He makes time.
So for the personal attacks on Mike from people that have never shaken his hand
GO AWAY!!!
Loxodrome.... spend some time and think about what you doing to Mike and to our community.

rugyboogie February 04, 2007 17:39

yesterday i was traveling to Las Vegas for a business convention and had meetings last night.....then i read all the posts from yesterday....

.....thanks to all for the support.

i do this hobby for fun only......as well as post my system for the positive interaction it provides me. i've made quite a few friends over the years. but it's possible that as my approach is a bit over-the-top; it becomes too much of a lighting rod for nay-sayers. some well-meaning.....and some not so well meaning.

last week there was a thread on the audio asylum that was started as a result of some blog posting pictures of my room. the comments on audio asylum were pretty calm; although one person did make some pretty strong negative comments.

post by Bambi B

later in that same thread Bambi B apologized to me for getting so personal. i think that like Lox, Bambi B is an architect. unlike Lox; he acted like i decent guy and ate a little crow for acting so insensitively.

i am comfortable with my personal approach to things; i am on a path like everyone and will likely continue to evolve in my own personal way. however; maybe it might be time for me to keep my direction to myself......since my public direction seems to invite controversy......and that is absolutely not what i am looking for.

i don't care about criticism; but to provoke nastyness and attacks is just not worth it to me.

i am not looking for sympathy or feedback; but just an understanding of where i'm coming from if i pull the plug on my system posting......which i am very seriously considering.

mikelavigne February 04, 2007 16:37

Lox....
SHUT UP!
Who the @#$% cares about your Pegoretti? A lot of us have other interests and hobbies too. You sound like an idiot. I have two Serottas.
Let's get back to Mike's listening room, having (hopefully) slammed the door on Lox once and for all.

sc53 February 04, 2007 01:06

.
Loxodrome,
.
I find your comments illogical, annoying, and inaccurate.
.
If you truly had followed Mike’s system thread for the last few years, you would not have made any of the statements you have made to date.
.
You appear to be an articulate incompetent that either has an agenda (as was suggested regarding some interest you have in Kharma, if you do, you have not done Kharma any favors with your behavior) or you have some mental or personal deficiency that requires you to strike out at others. I have no idea of what your issues are but please seek getting some counseling and keep your comments to yourself in the future.
.
I have found Mike to be incredibly generous with this time in trying to help others move along their quest to enjoying music through audio and he has consistently invited others to join in his joy of music and audio.
.
If you want to take the time to read his System thread from start to finish, you should end up posting a full apology.
.
Please keep your pompous and self absorbed, incorrect, and uninformed theories to yourself. The world needs more people like Mike and less like you.
.
Sincerely,
Larry
.

cello February 03, 2007 23:32

Lox,
Your responses are overly pretentious. Who are you to tell us all how to enjoy our music? If by ourselves, or with our families, regardless of this fact, music and its reproduciton is a personal thing.

Mike's system is his own, regardless of what your wishes for an audio system are. You cannot impose on him what he should listen to or whom he should listen with, that's his choice.

For you, I would say, remove that awful chair from between your Kharmas and remove that couch that is suffocating the right channel. But, am I right to say that? No.

As was pointed out, your car cant even seat your entire family and yet you make yourself to be this wondrous family man. You dont even have a picture of your wife in your family pics link in your system page... who knows what kind of family man you truly are.

joey_v February 03, 2007 22:26

In response to Loxodrome: my lifelong friend (50 years) is an architect - one of Frank Geary's boys out of USC - whose personal audio system is fairly simple: a Dual tt, Plinius integrated and 30 year old AR speakers. He keeps this system in his office space and there is only one seat in the room. He doesn't invite people into that space. It's where he looks for inspiration, or escape. He does love sharing music, however, always finding time to sit down at his well-worn baby grand to play show tunes or Beatles songs for anyone willing to listen. (If I hear Obla-di-obla-da one more time...)

There is no 'right' way to build a system, nor is there any 'right' way to enjoy it. Moreover, I find that many of my guests don't particularly care for the music that I love; so having the opportunity to sit alone and lose myself in Rahsaan Roland Kirk or Katie Webster or Irakere is the ticket.

I do, however, have a sofa, so anyone who loves music and has an open mind are welcome to join me.

Mike has more than one chair in his space so obviously he enjoys sharing his music with other very lucky folks.

islandear February 03, 2007 19:31

The responses my Loxodrome are uncalled for. Personally if I were Mike, I wouldn't even bother responding. It's just a waste of time and effort.

ryder February 03, 2007 17:11

Dear Loxodrome
I agree with Czapp. The way you behave here does not help the selling of Kharma Exquisite Grand Reference, which you tried so hard to push Mike to buy but failed. I understand you must be very disappointed. The thing is that we enjoy Mike's contribution here, not yours. If you follow Czapp's advice and do us a fovor, you are still very welcome.

zdeng February 03, 2007 15:23

Loxodrome, you wrote: "Your “room” is the perfect example of boys with their toy’s and the ONE CHAIR affair"
You may be right but one could also write about you: " your 360 Modena Challenge Stradale is the perfect example of boy's with their toy's and the TWO SEAT affair" (btw, what the point of speaking about a Ferrari in the description of your system? (even if I enjoyed the story...))

What is wrong with that? Each of us has the right to spend his money where he wants. It is a personal decision that I wouldn't allow myself to comment. It always amazes me how people get more aggressive writing on forums. Would you launch such a direct attack in a face-to-face meeting with a stranger?

Last, one point which puzzles me is the following: is your attack on Mike's room a way to get free advertising for your listening room design company and its different approach in room design?

PS: Personally I find both Mike's and your rooms / systems very impressive, even if you followed very different paths. I would live happily with any of them, congrats to both of you. I am sure both of you enjoy a lot what you are listening
PS2: Mike, pls keep on answering the questions of visitors on this site (including mine ha ha ha...)

stereotaipei February 03, 2007 14:21

Loxodrome
Why don't you follow the example set by Mike, and be a contributor to this site?
Mike is an outstanding member of this community, and has on numerous occasions gone out of his way to offer help and guidance. On the other hand, you seem to only offer malicious negativity. Please do us all a favor and leave.

czapp February 03, 2007 12:17

Mike, Well done! Your response is certainly in another level, more than one above.

zdeng February 03, 2007 08:13

Mr. Mike, thanks.

I agree. I will start a ONE CHAIR STORY thread. I for one hope you once will start to understand the essence of my commenting. It has no relationship with you as a person, since I have never even met nor communicated with yourself, but with you as the ultimate example on AudiogoN of a person who loves the toys more than what the toys are made for.

I for instance have a road bike made by one of the most famous bike designers in the world, Pegoretti. Instead of hanging the bike on a wall as an object, I ride it fiercely. For me it’s about the riding thing not about the bike as a toy. This does not however make me a better person, but makes me a biker who promotes biking by biking. And by doing so, my son became interested in biking, not in the bike.

And this is exactly what should be happening to the High-End if we want it to survive i.e. read the articles in TAS and other magazines.

For the knowledgeable reader, yours answers amplify exactly my case. Does this mean I do not like you as a person? This my friend is irrelevant since it’s not about you!

Mike, I do appreciate your efforts composing a system that stands out but suggest that tonight you play Glenn Gould, The Goldberg Variations by Bach, CBS masterworks CD37779.
Have a glass of your best red wine, relax and read a book about The Bauhaus. Less is More.

Take care Mr. Mike

loxodrome February 03, 2007 06:49

***********

"Well Mr. Mike, interestingly your comments are in no way an answer to what I think is a big problem for the High End."

***********

Lox, if you truely were interested in having a discusion about your agenda ("The One Chair Story"--from your system thread).....that is your business.....open a new thread or ask a question in an open forum. to 'invade' my thread with your indictement is really quite rude. i did however answer you; by simply telling you that my listening environment is what i choose that fits me.....it's personal. BTW, it's also a work in progress.....over time i look forward to adding art and such to warm it up a bit. if that's not enough of an answer for you then so be it.

are you as critical and insensitive of other's personal spaces in person (unless solicited); or just from behind a keyboard?

*************

"Over the last 12 hours I received many personal mails from High Enders who do agree with my view and seem to know you and have details about your privileges obtaining stuff."

************

wow, a bit of slander too. not willing to crawl out from under the rocks themselves....but will allow you to sling the mud for them? OK. i'll respond assuming that you are not involved and have a reasonable sense of fair play. of course; you are accusing me of somehow being someone's pimp while you have a business association which i have mentioned and you have not responded to.

in any case; i have always been a vocal and passionate audiophile......and willing to share my viewpoints. i have also tried new gear and then spoke about it. others tried what a spoke about and liked it too.

ironic that 4 or 5 years ago i likely was indirectly responsible for selling lots of Kharma speakers (i paid for them) and yet now the Kharma 'gang' wants to impune my integrity now that i have moved on to other speakers. was i 'bought' back then too?

most of the guys with prominent systems posted here on Audiogon have close relationships with manufacturers and high end dealers (like yourself). many/most likely get great deals. maybe some extremely good. most of these guys likely are more effective at promoting the products they use than any advertisment or show might be.....because it's their passion.

i can tell you my wife wishes your (completely groundless) accusation of me was true. while i may be first in line to get some gear due my early knowledge of it.....i pay what any very good customer pays. my wife always asks me why i allow all these people to come around and listen.....or answer questions on the phone for hours.....without getting any 'cut' for my effort. i tell her that i do it because it is fun for me. this is not my business. my business is what i do the rest of the time.

*************

"Are these music lovers jealous? No way they all are fed up with people, like yourself, who indulge on stuff but have no substance at all about love and care for the creating arts."

**************

you know; i wish i really had some musical talent.....but i don't. but i do love music.....and i listen all the time. for hours on end. i have lots of music and my room was designed to have it close.....over 3000+ cds and sacds, 6000 Lps--3000 in my listenig room. i really get into the music.....but god did not endow me with the musical vocabulary to write about it. how can you accuse me of not careing about the music? until the last few years i was buying 30 to 50 new pieces of music a month.

i sponsor a local orchestra concert (my friend is the conductor) once a year and do as much live as i can.

as far as people who think i 'indulge but have no substance'....i have never represented that i have any special knowledge of any kind. OTOH i have been exposed to some good gear in a good room and am willing to talk about it....no more, no less. if some make me out to be more than that it is certainly not me doing that.

my expertise is managing large auto dealerships.....i'm damn good at it.

***************

"I, for one, will keep far from personal things and I am fully confident that music is not your concern."

***************

you have been very personal and judgemental.....and have no idea what my personal concerns are.

**********

Enjoy your stuff and keep the family happy.

**********

i will.

mikelavigne February 03, 2007 05:09

All my firends listen to my system as background music. Anyone who has a friend who is willing to listen to album after album well into the night is lucky indeed. Making small, adjustment for vta, evaluting cables, etc. just does not do it for the average Joe.

gregadd February 02, 2007 21:50

Well Mr. Mike, interestingly your comments are in no way an answer to what I think is a big problem for the High End.
Over the last 12 hours I received many personal mails from High Enders who do agree with my view and seem to know you and have details about your privileges obtaining stuff. Are these music lovers jealous? No way they all are fed up with people, like yourself, who indulge on stuff but have no substance at all about love and care for the creating arts.

I, for one, will keep far from personal things and I am fully confident that music is not your concern. Enjoy your stuff and keep the family happy.

loxodrome February 02, 2007 19:59

well, i, for one, feel that mike's ongoing experiments best serve the people that read these commentaries, so i thank you first of all for making SOTA 2-channel audio just as interesting as my subscription to stereophile and the absolute sound combined. of course i have an opinion about a "theoretical person" who would indulge in this hobby to such a degree that he would A.(hopefully) find the situation frequently humorous and laugh about his compulsions with his friends, or, god forbid, B.become overcome with rage and have a coronary if "some audiophile big shot" came over and felt his stereo sounded like crap.
either way, i have a pretty elaborate hi-fi myself, AND 13 guitars which mostly gather dust (but i love just having them anyway). and a piano, and 5 reel to reels, and... well, so WHO AM I to tell mike that he can or can't try out a new component? all i want is that he take the time to tell me (us) how it all worked out. yeah, i'm a bit pissed off that i get a pair of VR9SE's, 'cause they're so good according to a certain person, so no sooner do i get them i hear he goes off to get the VR-11's, only NOW he's listening to something else with gorgeous wood all over it which i don't have, and i haven't heard him say they sound better than the 9's but they probably do, etc.....! (just kidding)! my system sounds wonderful, and i cherish good music above all else.
i even like my Tivoli radio a whole lot and can listen to that for hours, too. so i just hope everyone has fun whether they spend a bunch of money or are total cheapskates and simply open the windows when their neighbors play music...

french_fries February 02, 2007 18:47

Hi Mike

I have not posted here before but I feel compelled to congtratulate you on the eloquent manner in which you handled the previous comments by Lox. You are a great man with a great system. Enjoy.

adamg February 02, 2007 16:39

Lox old chap, i trust all is well.

at least this current 'slash' on my thread does not appear to be 'drug' or 'booze' induced.

since this is your third (or maybe fourth) attack here i suppose that it is now on your calendar. at least you have adjusted your aim from my speakers (your 'not' subtle suggestion of the Kharma as a business partner of Kharma), then to my amps (again as a business partner of Kharma), and now it gets a bit more personal.

tell me; what did i personally do to you which has motivated your wrath? or does my moving on from Kharma (with only fond memories) make me a target?

BTW, 'IF' you actually pay attention to this thread; there is a constant theme of many visitors to my room all the damn time.

in any case; i have 2 grown children that are a big part of my life; and i have been married for 33 years. 6 days a week i manage 150 employees.

my room is my refuge from the stress in my life......and fits my lifestyle perfectly. i truely hope your music environment fits yours too.

judging people is a slippery slope. i do realize that if i post my system and pictues i become a target for all sorts of comments.....like yours.

till next time......

mikelavigne February 02, 2007 14:23

Mr. Mike, with amazement I have been reviewing your correspondence and your room/set.
For me you are the ultimate example of what is so wrong about the High-End and why all but few are positive about the future of this industry and get young people interested in it.

All I read is about pieces of equipment, cables and hardware. Every month a new speaker or a new amp, not even one word about the software except data of the quantity.

Where did you guys go wrong?

If it is about your toys then you are only a Hi-Fi nerd and the nerds are killing the industry. It should be about the music and the emotion music can deliver. It is not a solitary thing it is a thing you should experience with multiple. The hardware are in my view only the means.

I played in bands and orchestra’s for years and “the magic” happens where there is emotional interaction. Not interaction between apparatus but between people.

Your “room” is the perfect example of boys with their toy’s and the ONE CHAIR affair.
No signs of the together. I can imagine the dance around the ONE CHAIR that will give you the utter “sweet-spot” experience.

Look at the aesthetics and atmosphere of “the barn”. We can differ about taste and subjectivity but your “room” has not one single element that would attract a music loving person ready to share the experience of communicating music.

Now some would argue that I might be jealous. To the contrary. I agree that your hardware is selected with care and I am convinced that it must produce a wonderful sound. I am however not convinced it communicates the musical experience.

For me your site fits the discussion starting slowly in TAS about what the absolute sound is all about. Should a High-End system communicate the emotional expression as intended and recorded by the musicians or should a system be able to retrieve every little
detail and be so analytical that you can tell what is the make of the car passing outside the Amsterdam Concertgebouw.

Mike it’s all about the transfer of emotion. Remove your CHAIR and invite 50 people in you barn. Put on some ass-kicking music and have a party. You’ll love it.

ps: What about your family? Happy that you are fiddling with your cables all night?

loxodrome February 02, 2007 10:49

Mike, what an evolution and what a stunning conclusion to your journey--so far... Are those ribbon tweeters in your new speakers? Also: do you have swappable headshells for your tonearm so you don't have to mount, align, etc. every time you change your cartridge? The beauty of your new speakers is just breathtaking, your pictures turned out just lovely. I don't know how you will be able to compare these with the VR-11's which are being made for you. Maybe you'll just keep both somehow and do multi-channel. Long ago you and I shared a CD player--the Marantz SA-1--which I still have. I am in the process of comparing it to the Linn Unidisk 2.1, the ergonomics of which I like better. I love the way your system has evolved, keep on enjoying it!
--Sarah

sc53 February 01, 2007 21:51

Mike,
First, congratulations for your great system, and thanks for the time you spent documenting your quest of perfection: very instructive for all of us. would love to also build a dedicated room... but unfortunately I am moving in a different country every 2-3 years...
Some context to my questions: on my side, I am buying a completely new system. I first was interested by the VR-9, which unfortunately cannot be listened to in HK/Taiwan. However, I listened extensively to both the VR5 and VR11SE in HK, in a very nice dealer room. Was not fully convinced to be frank. Very dynamic, detailed sound but I had a problem with the bass which was too boomy on the ported VR5SE (probably a setup/room problem) and I didn’t feel 100% connected with the music. On the same day, I listened to the Magico Mini at the same place (by accident, never heard about Magico before), and completely felt in love with it (will not speak about the 120k Magico 6 which is in a category of its own.. .but too heavy and expensive for me). It sounded like live music, and was imaging and had the energy of a big speaker. I am now planning to buy a pair of Mini + 2 Torus subwoofer to reinforce the <40Hz that the Mini cannot deliver.
Before sending my Mini order, I believe I need to listen to the MM3: the price is amazing, I am really impressed by the construction of the cabinet, the quality of the drivers used and the fact that it is a modular concept (easier to move in a new home when you can “cut” your monster speaker in 3…). Moreover, given that I love the sound of the Dartzeel and of EMM products I tend to think I may love the MM3 if it is of the same “family”. Do you know where it can be listened to in the US? (I emailed to Bluelightaudio a few days ago, but they are not very reactive…). I will be in SF, LA and Orlando end of March and I am ready to take a flight of less than 2-3hrs to any place where it can be listened to in good conditions.
One thing which surprises me is to read the comment of J Valin on the MM3 in the Feb TAS: “Although capable of considerable delicacy, tonal sweetness, and lifelike imaging, the MM3s were either underdriven by the $18k 100Wpc Dartzeel NHB-108 amps Jonathan was using or inherently polite because they were sorely stressed by the plucked strings, brass fanfares, and big bass drum thwacks of the Copland Third Symphony. On less demanding material, however—like Joni Mitchell’s “All I Want” from the great DCC LP test pressing of Blue—they were rather lovely on voice and dulcimer.”
=> Valin was not very convinced by what he heard at RMAF apparently… which worries/surprises me as most of the time I share his taste on speakers. However I have the impression that the few other people that listened to the MM3 at RMAF had a completely different experience!
Is it just that the MM3 is for people with different taste? Like Valin, I like Kharma, MBL, love Magico. But was not 100% convinced by VS: how would you describe the sound of the MM3 compared to your old VS9 or Kharma for example?
Thanks for your help

stereotaipei February 01, 2007 17:40